1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: four into a docuseriies you'll get to meet the people involved, 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: you get to see where this story took place. We 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: are so proud and excited to share it with you all. 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Disney Plus. Hey, guys, before we dive into the episode, 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: we have exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: is an online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: a place where we dive deeper into the stories you 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: hear on this show. Please consider joining our community to 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: gain access to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: as well as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Just head to Betrayaled dot substack that's sub stack, or 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: just go to substack dot com Beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe. 17 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: I tell her what he has told me thus far, 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: and she says there's a lot more. He's actually said 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: that he's done so much that if you find out everything, 20 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: there's no way you guys will be able to stay together. 21 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season four, Episode five. 22 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: Fantasy Land. Lieutenant Joel Kerran spent years building a successful 23 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: career with the Colorado Springs Police Department, but in early 24 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, it all unraveled after a woman came 25 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: forward claiming she had sex with him in his patrol car. 26 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: What started as one allegation quickly ignited a chain reaction, 27 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: exposing the secret life Kern kept hidden for years. In 28 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: the last episode of Betrayal, we share recordings of the 29 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: cspd's internal affairs investigation into Joel Kern's police misconduct. After 30 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: signing an agreement to tell the truth in his interview, 31 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: Joel continued to lie until investigators presented him with irrefutable evidence. 32 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: Several weeks later, Joel's commander recommended him for termination. 33 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: Quite frankly, the legislative intent is very clear that we 34 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 3: cannot allow peace officers remain employed when they've lied during 35 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 3: an ia investigation. I have no option but to recommend 36 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 3: your termination. 37 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: Termination would risk Joel's entire career. It would be more 38 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: difficult for him to get a job as a police officer. 39 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: Ever again, listening to the interviews in the last episode, 40 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: it all sounded straightforward, open and shut. But that's not 41 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: how it all shook out. Joel wasn't fired, and we'll 42 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: explore what actually happened and why over the next few episodes. 43 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: Following that meeting, Joel seemed to think that there was 44 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: still a chance he could save his career. He had 45 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: one more card to play, here's Caroline. 46 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: He said, there's a possibility I could save my job 47 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: and go to an impatient treatment program that's specific for 48 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: first responders and Laguna Beach. 49 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to Caroline, Joel had already started making arrangements while 50 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: his internal affairs investigation was underway. He went to a psychiatrist. 51 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: He told her he needed help. 52 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: The psychiatrist said he was under such duress that he 53 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: really needed to go to impatient treatment almost immediately, and 54 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: according to his self report to me and the kids, 55 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 4: he was diagnosed with PTSD and that was his cause 56 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: and reason for being sent to endpatient rehab. 57 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: Laguna Beach is in southern California, about ninety minutes south 58 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: of Los Angeles. When you first see the homepage of 59 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: the rehabilitation facility. You're greeted by stunning blue green water 60 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: stretching against golden sand. It looks luxurious, and of course 61 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: it's not cheap. But Joel and Caroline wouldn't pay a dime. 62 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: He said. The department's going to approve it. They have 63 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: a connection with them. They'll make arrangements for me to 64 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: go there. It will be paid for And so I said, 65 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: but your Penning termination. 66 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: His termination wasn't official just yet. He was in limbo 67 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: awaiting the meeting where the disciplinary ruling would be finalized. 68 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: So there was still time for. 69 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 5: One last shot. 70 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: If he took medical and sickly, he could delay the 71 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: disciplinary process. If he could show the department he could change, 72 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: maybe he could still keep his job. 73 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: Joel thought if he admitted he had a problem and 74 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: he really committed to treatment, he could turn things around. 75 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: He absolutely needed to go to rehab to address not 76 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: only his sex addiction, but because he wanted to make 77 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: sure that he was doing everything he could to show 78 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: the department that he was trying to be a healthy 79 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: person to continue his employment. 80 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: He also told Caroline that it was a symptom of 81 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: a larger issue. 82 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 6: He began to say that he struggled over the past 83 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 6: handful of years with just feeling as though he had 84 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 6: a sex addiction. 85 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: Joel was in repair mode to save his job and 86 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: his marriage. He told Caroline he'd fully commit to the 87 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: treatment program, that he'd address his mistakes head on. As 88 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: furious as Caroline was, it looked like Joel was finally 89 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: taking accountability. Maybe being recommended for termination was the wake 90 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: up call he needed. During this time Joel's war, he 91 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: was committed to change. He kept repeating the same mantra, I. 92 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: Want to get better. I need to go do this. 93 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 4: I want to get better. 94 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: I softened a little bit, and when I began to soften, 95 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: I started having these feelings of will he get better? 96 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: Could he get better? What does this look like. 97 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: Here's Caroline's daughter, Nicole. 98 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 7: There was this period where my mom was thinking, like, 99 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 7: maybe he'll get better, and then they could possibly start 100 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 7: from scratch and start dating again. 101 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: There were moments when that possibility felt within reach. Caroline 102 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: never wanted to lose her family, and Joel was saying 103 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: all the right things, but Nicole was having her own 104 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: reckoning about her relationship with her father. Once she understood 105 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: the depth of her father's betrayal. She reflected on who 106 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: he had been during her childhood. She started calling him 107 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: one on one, sometimes demanding answers, other times simply voicing 108 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: her anger. 109 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 7: During one of our phone calls, I said something alluding 110 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 7: to the fact like he'd never really paid attention to 111 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 7: any of us, he never really did things to show 112 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 7: appreciation for us. 113 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: He'd always been less present, put in less effort than Caroline. 114 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 5: The family had. 115 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: Always talked it up to his demanding job. Now his 116 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: daughter was left wondering, maybe that's just who he is, 117 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: Maybe her dad just didn't care. 118 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 7: But one of the last few times that I saw 119 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 7: him before he went to rehab, he came to the 120 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 7: house with my mom's coffee order. The way he was 121 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 7: at that time, he seemed remorseful. 122 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: And that remorse gave Caroline the tiniest bit of hope. 123 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: As Joel prepared to go to rehab, she offered him 124 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: some grace. 125 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: After a lot of conversation, and I agreed that he 126 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: could stay at our home in the guest bedroom before 127 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: he left for rehab. 128 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Joel said he would come back from rehab a better man, 129 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: that he was getting help so he could salvage the 130 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: family there was a big piece of Caroline and Nicole 131 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: that wanted to believe it. But the night before he 132 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: left for California, Nicole started to question was her dad 133 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: actually planning to come back. 134 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 7: He me downstairs, showed me how to reset the Wi Fi. 135 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 7: He showed me like where our air filters are, and 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 7: then how to turn on and off the sprinkler system 137 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 7: for our house. It was just a bunch of little things, 138 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 7: and I remember thinking like, well, I guess this is it. 139 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 7: He's never gonna come back to the house. Because he 140 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 7: was showing his seventeen year old daughter how to change 141 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 7: out the air filter. 142 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: There were a lot of conflicting feelings. Whenever Caroline was 143 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: kind to Joel, Nicole felt protective. One of his last 144 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: nights in the house, Caroline made Joel dinner. 145 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 7: Even after all what he did. Our mom made him tacos, 146 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 7: and I remember feeling so angry because I was like, 147 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 7: why are we even letting him stay in the first place. 148 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 7: If he doesn't want show he wants to be with us, 149 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 7: just let him figure it out on his own. I 150 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 7: was just so frustrated at the situation at hand, him 151 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 7: going to rehab, him doing this to our family, yet 152 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 7: my mom is still all trying to be a wife. 153 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: I guess it was a hard habit to break. Caroline's 154 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: default mode was to care for her family, even Joel, 155 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: and he was trying, or at least they thought he was. 156 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: I will admit we at one point had talked about 157 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 2: if he could show that he was truly someone who 158 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 2: struggled with addiction and was trying to engage in healthy behaviors, 159 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: that at some point we could be friends, an attempt 160 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 2: to date and start all over again. We have a 161 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: dry erase board in our kitchen that we would leave 162 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 2: notes for the kids, or reminders or a grocery list, 163 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: you know, whatever that may look like. Before he left, 164 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: he wrote a note to my daughter and I that 165 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: said I love you guys, I will and underlined will 166 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: get better. And I went to erase it, and my 167 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: daughter asked to keep it up for a while, and 168 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: then she made the decision of when it would get erased. 169 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: That was the last message they would receive from Joel 170 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: for a while. He was required to give up his 171 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: phone during the first few weeks at rehab. 172 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: After two weeks at the facility, Joel was given his 173 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: phone back and he sends a text saying just how 174 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: incredible the facility is and he thinks it's going to 175 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: be beneficial to him that he wanted to be vulnerable 176 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: with me and the kids. 177 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: He described to Caroline how his behavior evolved, all of 178 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: it by text. We asked a voice actor to read 179 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: his messages. 180 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 8: I was playing an online game in two thousand and 181 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 8: five or six where people used an app called pal 182 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 8: Ringo to communicate about game strategy. For several months, I 183 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 8: used it for that, and then out of curiosity, I 184 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 8: searched sexual terms and all these groups or chat rooms 185 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 8: popped up. People would post porn and homemade porn on them, 186 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 8: and that started my addiction that progressed into chatting with 187 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 8: females on there and sexting. 188 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: Joel said that led him to seek out other apps 189 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: like vet Life They Can't and Fetish Site that he'd 190 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: been caught using at work. 191 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 8: I downloaded the app and found all kinds of porn 192 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 8: that included pictures and video. I found myself becoming more 193 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 8: immersed in it and growing resentful of you because I 194 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 8: could not please you like the men and the porn did. 195 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 5: Joel wasn't blaming her per se, but he was implying 196 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 5: that this was all about not being able to satisfy her. 197 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 8: I found myself starting to believe in the fantasy world, 198 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 8: and my self esteem crashed. There were no boundaries or 199 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 8: limitations in this fantasy world. I could say things to 200 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 8: women that were not imaginable in real life. 201 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: Joel went on to explain in graphic detail how this 202 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: fantasy escalated into real life actions. 203 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 8: I could get a blowjob and feel more manly. Once 204 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 8: I saw how easy it was, I got. 205 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: Hooked on that. 206 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 8: I felt guilty and knew what I was doing was wrong, 207 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 8: but by then it didn't matter. Low self esteem, self hatred, depression, anxiety, 208 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 8: addiction all contributed to my behavior and actions. Saying people 209 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 8: would not do what I did, but I literally was 210 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 8: not in my right mind. 211 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: Joel went on to say that this wasn't a justification 212 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: for his behavior, just an explanation. Then he tried to 213 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: assure her he had told her all of his secrets. 214 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 8: You have discovered everything, and I have told you about 215 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 8: all that is significant, or I remember, I have tried 216 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 8: to explain it as best I can in this text. 217 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 8: Are there things I'm omitting absolutely but not out of 218 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 8: intentional deception. I simply can't remember everything. I hope that 219 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 8: this in some way helps show that I'm being honest 220 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 8: and forthcoming about my actions. 221 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: Back in Colorado Springs, Nicole watched her mom grapple with 222 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: the tug of war between hurt and hope. 223 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 7: She was trying so hard to be with my dad 224 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 7: for the beginning of it, like trying to work through 225 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 7: it and trying to like maybe start fresh with him. 226 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: Still, Caroline felt that Joel was holding back. For example, 227 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: when she asked if he had affairs with any coworkers, 228 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: his response was cage. 229 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 8: I want to engage in conversations to heal. I'd be 230 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 8: happy to address this, but I'm wary of piling on 231 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 8: for the divorce proceedings. If there is any hope of 232 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 8: working through this, then I want to address this. 233 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: Caroline suspected he was still carefully picking and choosing what 234 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: he'd fess up to. She wrestled with all of this 235 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: while trying to keep some normalcy for their daughter. Nicole 236 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: was a junior in high school, so while Joel was 237 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: in rehab, Caroline took her to tour a college campus 238 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of miles from home. That's where Caroline was when 239 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: she got a call from Joel's case manager at the 240 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: treatment center. Joel gave the facility permission to keep Caroline 241 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: updated about his care, but this was the first time 242 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: she'd heard from a staff member. 243 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: And so she said, He said that it's important for 244 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: you to know that he is doing all these things 245 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: and trying to get better, to not only keep his job, 246 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: but to try to change and be a different person. 247 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: And so I tell her what he has told me 248 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: thus far, and she says, there's a lot more. He's 249 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: actually said that he's done so much that if you 250 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: find out everything, there's no way you guys will be 251 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: able to stay together. 252 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: Then the case manager got to the point, the real 253 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: reason she was calling Caroline. 254 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: She said he was one of the worst cases of 255 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: sex addiction she had ever seen. 256 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: Caroline received a call from the rehabilitation center where Joel 257 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: was being treated. The case manager was direct with their 258 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: assessment of Joel. 259 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: She said he was one of the worst cases of 260 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: sex addiction she had ever seen. She's telling me all 261 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: this and my head is just spinning. I'm on a campus, 262 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: trying to keep some normalcy for our daughter and let 263 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: her be able to get a glimpse of what her 264 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: future could be on a college campus. I'm trying to 265 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: hold it together emotionally for her. I'm trying to hold 266 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: it together emotionally for myself. 267 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: The case manager's words replayed in her head. Maybe this 268 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: story Joel was telling Caroline about reflections, breakthroughs and progress 269 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: was just that a story. 270 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: One night, to get a phone call and he says 271 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 2: he has his ability to call people now, and he's 272 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: talking himself up and he's saying, you know, what a 273 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 2: leader he is at the facility that he doesn't think 274 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: he's even going to be there the full time because 275 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 2: he's just doing so great, and his therapist thinks he's amazing, 276 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 2: and he is taking on different leadership roles in his groups. 277 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: And I couldn't take it anymore. 278 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: So she told Joel about the phone call with the 279 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: case manager. The case manager's version of Joel's progress did 280 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: not match his. 281 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: Joel became infuriated, and he said that she was a bitch, 282 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: and you know, this is why now he could see 283 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: why she was standoffish to him. You know, he just 284 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: completely twisted it and turned it and then let me 285 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: know he didn't want her contacting me for anything ever again. 286 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: And so I said, sounds appropriate at this point, because 287 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 2: you're not honest with me, and you're not honest with 288 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: this treatment team. 289 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: If he wasn't going to tell her the full truth, 290 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: she would investigate herself. 291 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 2: And I can't tell you what prompted me to finally 292 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: have this epiphany, but I did. I had this moment 293 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 2: after all of this to pull our phone records. 294 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: To understand the gravity of this next story, we have 295 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: to go back in time, about five years prior, when 296 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: Nicole was in middle school. When I first introduced you 297 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: to the family, I told you that their son and 298 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: daughter were accomplished athletes and hard working students. It's extraordinary 299 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: they've maintained that, especially considering the trauma they've experienced. For Nicole, 300 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: it wasn't the first time she had faced adversity. 301 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 7: Middle school and the beginning years of high school definitely 302 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 7: weren't the best for me. 303 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: For several years, Nicole was bullied. She felt like one 304 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: girl had turned the entire school against her. 305 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 7: There was a ring later. It was the typical sort 306 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 7: of movie scene where she seemed really popular and had 307 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 7: a bunch of friends, and everyone was like crowding around her. 308 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 7: And her lunch table was big where mine was nuts. 309 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 7: It was hard forming some connections, and so lot of 310 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 7: times family dinner would be the first time like I 311 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 7: ever talked to anyone that day. It was hard, so 312 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 7: that structure of family dinner was important to me. 313 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: This girl definitely was someone who was a leader amongst 314 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 2: your peers and somehow was able to get folks to 315 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 2: kind of side with her in essence, and so she 316 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 2: often was able to rally folks to isolate. Our daughter, 317 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: Nicole would often be in tears talking about how this 318 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 2: little girl at school was bowling her relentlessly, and I 319 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: was really caught between a rock and a hard place 320 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: between not wanting to give into a bully but also 321 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: to try to instill self confidence in her and look 322 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 2: out for her safety. 323 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: Joel had casual contact with the mother of Nichole's bully 324 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: through the kids' activities. 325 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 2: I said, don't you think maybe we should sit down 326 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 2: and talk to her, And he said, let's see if 327 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 2: the girls can work this out on her own. And 328 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: he just reiterated that this was a piece of growing 329 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: up and that we really should reinstill self confidence in 330 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: our own child so that she could stick up for herself. 331 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: It was a painful chapter that only improved as Nicole 332 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: made more friends in high school. Okay, now back to 333 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: the phone records. 334 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: I had this moment after all of this, to pull 335 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 2: our phone records. I searched the first number and it 336 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: came back as the mom of the little girl who 337 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 2: bullied our daughter so heavily throughout middle school and the 338 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: onset of high school. 339 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: It was right there in black and white, call after call, 340 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: text after text between Joel and the mother of Nichole's bully. 341 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: Around six in the morning, I called Joel and he 342 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: answered and I said, Joel, I just pulled our phone records. 343 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: Why are you in constant contact with And he got 344 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: really quiet and then he said she saw me at 345 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: Target and thought I looked really skinny, and so she 346 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: was concerned for me. So she's just been checking on me. 347 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: And I said, no, I just don't believe you. 348 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: They both knew it was total bs, but for Joel 349 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: lying was like a reflex. This time, Caroline demanded the truth, 350 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: and finally he confessed. 351 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,239 Speaker 2: He said that he had been having an affair with 352 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: her since our son graduated from high school. It started 353 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 2: because she reached out to him and congratulated him on 354 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: all of our son's accolades. And then he was very 355 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: matter of fact and said, then she said to me, 356 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: I always look forward to seeing you because I thought 357 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: you were cute. And he said, from that moment, I 358 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: knew she'd be easy to have sex with. And so 359 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: he said that he started driving to her home at 360 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: least three times a week and would have sex with 361 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: her while he was on duty. 362 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: All of this was revealed on May eighth, which happened 363 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: to be Caroline's birthday and Mother's Day. At this point, 364 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: the kids insisted on knowing every new detail. They wanted 365 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: to know the truth, no matter how disturbing. 366 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 7: I was just about to turn seventeen. I didn't want 367 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 7: to be in the shadows, and I wanted like the 368 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 7: full picture of my dad. But then sometimes the full 369 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 7: picture of my dad was a little gory, and so 370 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 7: it was hard to hear. 371 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: Hard to hear is an understatement. Joel having an affair 372 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: with the mother of her bully was devastating. Nicole confronted 373 00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: her dad. 374 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 2: She said, you knew what that girl did to me. 375 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 2: You knew how she treated me. You knew that sometimes 376 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 2: you and mommy were the first people I spoke to 377 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 2: all day because she got everyone to ignore me. And 378 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: then you went and had sex with her. 379 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 9: Mom and he just said I'm sorry, And so it 380 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 9: was just kind of a reality check, like my dad 381 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 9: just did not care, did not care about his actions 382 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 9: and who his actions affected. 383 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 5: This was the last straw for their son. 384 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 10: How apparent can witness firsthand the torment that another child 385 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 10: puts on their kid. Knowing this and then deciding I'm 386 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 10: going to have an affair with her mom, and so 387 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 10: there's the breaking point where it's like, you're not someone 388 00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 10: I look up to anymore. 389 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 5: Your jewel to me. 390 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: Now you can go fuck yourself. 391 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 1: The betrayal with the bully's mom was the deepest wound, 392 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: and the fact that Joel didn't tell his family about 393 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: it himself made it that much worse. But the phone 394 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: records revealed much more. The affairs didn't end there. Caroline 395 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: tracked down the identity of another phone number that appeared 396 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: multiple times. This discovery helped her to make sense of 397 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: something that had bothered her for years. 398 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: Like a lot of spouses who there's significant other spouse 399 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: is a police officer who works during the evening hours 400 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 2: the kids, and I would take him dinner. And so 401 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: when I would take him dinner, there was a specific 402 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 2: employee who was just so incredibly mean to me and 403 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: the kids. If our son would drive down and bring 404 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: him like ice cream or something like that, he would 405 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: notice that this specific person that she was just incredibly 406 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: rude and just not nice. 407 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: It upset Caroline, and she regularly brought it up to Joel. 408 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 2: And he would be like, Oh, look, you know, she's 409 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: a miserable person. That's just who she is. You gotta 410 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: let that go. 411 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: Turns out Joel had been contacting this coworker repeatedly. When 412 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: Caroline called Joel to ask if this was another affair, 413 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: he denied it. 414 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 2: He said, come on, Caroline, she's just checking on me 415 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 2: to make sure I'm okay. I said, I just don't 416 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: believe you, and I hung up, And then he admitted 417 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: that he had started having an affair with this employee 418 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 2: when he was a midnight lieutenant, and that the affair 419 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: had continued on off and on intermittently over the years, 420 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 2: and that she was even in the process of booking 421 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: a ticket to come out and see him while he 422 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: was in rehab. 423 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: In one text, Joel laments about his situation to this 424 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: same coworker. 425 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 8: There are pages upon pages of my text exchanges with 426 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 8: you and our family, phone bill and Caroline and the kids. 427 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 8: Seeing it has not lent me to building any trust. 428 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 8: I should be in contact with them, trying to win 429 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 8: their trust back. 430 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: He was attempting to cut off contact. It was too little, 431 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: too late. Only ten days after Caroline dealt with the 432 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: phone records, an emergency jolted her out of her grief. 433 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 2: It was our daughter. She was driving from lunch back 434 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 2: to school and she was hit by a driver who 435 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 2: had a long history of DUIs, and the driver te 436 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: bones her and totals the car. I got there and 437 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 2: our daughter was just completely in shock and in a 438 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 2: ton of pain. 439 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: They drove to the hospital. Caroline felt it was important 440 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: to let Joel know, but his friends at CSPD had 441 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: beat her to the punch. 442 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: He proceeds to tell me how he already knew some 443 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: of the facts of the accident because his friends had 444 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: recognized her name on the call screen. 445 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: He knew, and he didn't call Caroline. Nicole continues to 446 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 1: recover and still has anxiety about driving. In the weeks 447 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: that followed the contact between Joel and Caroline mostly revolved 448 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: around logistics concerning the total car from the accident. There 449 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: wasn't much more to discuss. Then one day, Caroline got 450 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: a call from the rehab. They had a problem. 451 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: He says to me, yeah, well, we're not where Joel's at, 452 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: so we wanted to check in. Is he with you 453 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: or you know, do you know if he's still at 454 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 2: the facility? And I said no, I have no idea. 455 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 2: And so we still had his location on all of 456 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: our phone So I pulled up his location. I can 457 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: specifically see an address where he was at in Hermosa Beach. 458 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: And then I just looked at our phone records, easy enough, 459 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: and the phone records had one specific number over and 460 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 2: over again, and so I googled the number. It comes 461 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: up to a female's name, and then I called the 462 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: number and I just said, hey, just to let you 463 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: know my estranged husband, I believe you're with him. He's 464 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: at a treatment facility and they're looking for him. It's 465 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: important that you let him know that they're looking for him. 466 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: Shortly after that, I got a phone call from Joel 467 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: who said that he had relapsed and had fallen prey 468 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: to his addictions, and that he had been meeting women 469 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: online again and had been going out to different areas 470 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: surrounding Laguna and meeting women. 471 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: Caroline sent emails to his case manager advising him of 472 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: where Joel had gone. With that email went Caroline's last 473 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: shred of hope. Joel hadn't let go of his habits, 474 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: He'd just relocated them. Caroline made the decision to prioritize 475 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: herself and her daughter's needs. 476 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,479 Speaker 2: His next contact with me was to call to say 477 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 2: that he wanted me to know that he got a job. 478 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: This was June twenty twenty two, after about two months 479 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: in rehab, Joel told Caroline he was leaving. He landed 480 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: a new job outside of law enforcement. He was getting 481 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: his own apartment in Colorado. Caroline was confused. She thought 482 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: all of this was to try and save his job 483 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: at the police department. 484 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: And so he said he was at this point just 485 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: hoping he could retire without any type of concern or 486 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: charge of misconduct. 487 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: He wouldn't I know if he would be criminally charged 488 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: or how his actions would affect his record until later 489 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: in the summer. Would he be allowed to retire scott free, 490 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: or would there be consequences. We'll get to this in 491 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: our next episode. For now, though Joel seemed to accept 492 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: that he had to move on from the CSPD, he 493 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: came back to Colorado to start a new job, and 494 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Caroline got clear about their relationship. It was over. Now 495 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: they would have to work out the terms of their divorce, 496 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: so they set a meeting to hash out details concerning money, property, 497 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: and custody. 498 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 2: He and I agree that we'll meet on the fourth 499 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: of July to agree on some things to be able 500 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: to divide them out. And we agree to meet at 501 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: a coffee shop that we used to frequent together a lot. 502 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: And so when I walked into the coffee shop, it 503 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: was just so bizarre. I see this older gentleman who 504 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: clearly is not my husband. I see a young teenager 505 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: who obviously is not my husband. And then I see 506 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 2: this man who was fully bearded, hair is shaggy, he's 507 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: wearing a fedora and a skull shirt, and he's waving 508 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: at me from a distance. And I had to take 509 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: pause and stand for several seconds and the entryway of 510 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 2: this coffee shop and stare at him. Joel had always 511 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: been someone who was extremely clean cut, and I just 512 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 2: sat down, And so as I sat down, he had 513 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: his phone facing up and I could see prompt after 514 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: prompt after prompt coming up, you know, just notification after 515 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: notification after notification of his own a various dating apps, 516 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: tender bumble, and it was just constant, constant, constant. 517 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: Caroline ignored the unending a lie arts. Then the conversation 518 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: turned to their daughter. Following the incident with her bully's mother, 519 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: Nicole refused to be in contact with Joel, but she 520 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: was seventeen, so there was still the issue of child support. 521 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 2: He said he shouldn't have to pay child support for 522 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: someone who wasn't in contact with him, and so we 523 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: went back and forth, and we even talked about that 524 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: when we went through the mediation process, and I could 525 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: not see myself forcing her to go through that. I mean, 526 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 2: my attorney advised me that we could go and have 527 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 2: court testimony and take a look at what a judge 528 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: would rule in that. And I just agreed to waive 529 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: child support so that I didn't have to put her 530 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: through that. After we agreed on how things would be 531 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 2: divided out, we started walking out of the coffee shop. 532 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 2: He walks me over to where I parked. And it's 533 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 2: such an ironic memory because I see his watch and 534 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 2: I can just see the constant notifications, and so I 535 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 2: thought to myself, let's see what you say. And I 536 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 2: just said, your phone kept going off and your watch 537 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 2: is going off so much. And his comment was, these 538 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: are all my friends from rehab and my therapist. They 539 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: just keep reaching out to me. I mean, even in 540 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 2: that moment, after everything that had gone on, he just 541 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: looked at me and lied, I mean blatantly lied. And 542 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 2: so I didn't even argue with him on it. I 543 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 2: just nodded my head and then I said, thanks for 544 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 2: meeting me, have a good Fourth of July. And then 545 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 2: he said, can I have a hug? And I said no, 546 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 2: and then he just stared at me for several seconds, 547 00:34:54,160 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 2: and like his voice was cracking, said you always be 548 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 2: the love of my life. And I just stared at him. 549 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 2: And then he said, I hope you know I love 550 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: you more than anything in this world and I always will. 551 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: And all I can say back was okay, and we 552 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 2: parted ways and that was the last time we saw 553 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 2: each other and probably ever will. 554 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal. 555 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: When I came home, there was this envelope taped to 556 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: our front door, and she just had this desperation in 557 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 2: her face, like she just was hoping for it, and 558 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: she said, oh, my gosh, is that from my dad? 559 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season four. If you 560 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 561 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal 562 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: Pod at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to 563 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H. 564 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way 565 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 566 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star 567 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal 568 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass 569 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is 570 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is 571 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced 572 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: by Kerrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate 573 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart team 574 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, 575 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Editing by Tanner Robbins. 576 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: Special thanks to voice actor John Blomo, and special thanks 577 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by 578 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: Oliver Baines. Music library provided by my Music and For 579 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 580 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts