1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:01,600 Speaker 1: Hey, guys. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: Before we dive into the episode, we have exciting news. 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 2: Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an online community. 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, a place where we 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: dive deeper into the stories you hear on this show. 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: Please consider joining our community to gain access to exclusive content, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: engage with me and subjects, as well as connect with 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: others who have experienced betrayal. Just head to Betrayal dot 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 2: substack that's sub stac k, or just go to substack 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe. 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: I tell her what he has told me thus far, 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: and she says there's a lot more. He's actually said 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: that he's done so much that if you find out everything, 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: there's no way you guys will be able to stay together. 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, Season four, episode five. 16 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: Fantasy Land. Lieutenant Joel Kern spent years building a successful 17 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: career with the Colorado Springs Police Department, but in early 18 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, it all unraveled after a woman came 19 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: forward claiming she had sex with him in his patrol car. 20 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: But started as one allegation quickly ignited a chain reaction, 21 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: exposing the secret life Kern kept hidden for years. In 22 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: the last episode of Betrayal, we share recordings of the 23 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: cspd's internal affairs investigation into Joel Kern's police misconduct. After 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: signing an agreement to tell the truth in his interview, 25 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: Joel continued to lie until investigators presented him with irrefutable evidence. 26 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: Several weeks later, Joel's commander recommended him for termination. 27 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 3: Quite frankly, the legislative intent is very clear that we 28 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: cannot allow peace officers remain employed when they've lied during 29 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: an ia investigation. I have no option but to recommend 30 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: your termination. 31 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: Termination would risk Joel's entire career. It would be more 32 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: difficult for him to get a job as a police officer. Ever, again, 33 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: listening to the interviews in the last episode, it all 34 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: sounded straightforward, open and shut. But that's not how it 35 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: all shook out. Joel wasn't fired, and we'll explore what 36 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: actually happened and why over the next few episodes. Following 37 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: that meeting, Joel seemed to think that there was still 38 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: a chance he could save his career. He had one 39 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: more card to play. 40 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: Here's Caroline, he said, there's a possibility. I could save 41 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: my job and go to an impatient treatment program that's 42 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: specific for first responders and Laguna Beach. 43 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to Caroline, Joel had already started making arrangements. While 44 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 2: his internal affairs investigation was underway. He went to a psychiatrist. 45 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: He told her he needed help. 46 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: The psychiatrist said he was under such duress that he 47 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: really needed to go to endpatient treatment almost immediately, and 48 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: according to his self report to me and the kids, 49 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: he was diagnosed with PTSD and that was his cause 50 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: and reason for being sent to endpatient rehab. 51 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: Laguna Beach is in southern California, about ninety minutes south 52 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: of Los Angeles. When you first see the homepage of 53 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: the rehabilitation facility, you're greeted by stunning blue green water 54 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: stretching against golden sand. It looks luxurious, and of course 55 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: it's not cheap. But Joel and Caroline wouldn't pay a dime. 56 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: He said. The department's going to approve it. They have 57 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: a connection with them. They'll make arrangements for me to 58 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: go there. It will be paid for, and so I said, 59 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: but your Penning termination. 60 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: His termination wasn't official just yet he was in limbo 61 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: awaiting the meeting where the disciplinary ruling would be finalized, 62 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 2: so there was still time for one last shot. If 63 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: he took medical and sickly, he could delay the disciplinary process. 64 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: If he could show the department he could change, maybe 65 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: he could still keep his job. 66 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: Joel thought if he admitted he had a problem and 67 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: he really committed to treatment, he could turn things around. 68 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: He absolutely needed to go to rehab to address not 69 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: only his sex addiction, but because he wanted to make 70 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: sure that he was doing everything he could to show 71 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: the department that he was trying to be a healthy 72 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: person to continue his employment. 73 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: He also told Caroline that it was a symptom of 74 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: a larger issue. 75 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 4: He began to say that he struggled over the past 76 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 4: handful of years with just feeling as though he had 77 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 4: a sex addiction. 78 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: Joel was in repair mode to save his job and 79 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: his marriage. He told Caroline he'd fully commit to the 80 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: treatment program, that he'd address his mistakes head on. As 81 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: furious as Caroline was, it looked like Joel was finally 82 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: taking accountability. Maybe being recommended for termination was the wake 83 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: up call he needed. During this time, Joel's wore he 84 00:05:54,160 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 2: was committed to change. He kept repeating the same mantra, I. 85 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: Want to get better. I need to go do this, 86 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: I want to get better. I softened a little bit, 87 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: and when I began to soften, I started having these 88 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: feelings of will he get better? Could he get better? 89 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: What does this look like? 90 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: Here's Caroline's daughter, Nicole. 91 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 5: There was this period where my mom was thinking, like, 92 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 5: maybe he'll get better, and then they could possibly start 93 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 5: from Scarrach and start dating again. 94 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: There were moments when that possibility felt within reach. Caroline 95 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: never wanted to lose her family, and Joel was saying 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: all the right things, but Nicole was having her own 97 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 2: reckoning about her relationship with her father. Once she understood 98 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: the depth of her father's betrayal, she reflected on who 99 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: he had been during her childhood. She started calling him 100 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: one on one, sometimes demanding answers, other times simply voicing 101 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: her anger. 102 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 5: During one of our phone calls, I said something alluding 103 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 5: to the fact that he never really paid attention to 104 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 5: any of us. He never really did things to show 105 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 5: appreciation for us. 106 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: He'd always been less present, put in less effort than Caroline. 107 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: The family had always talked it up to his demanding job. Now, 108 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: his daughter was left wondering maybe that's just who he is, 109 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: Maybe her dad just didn't care. 110 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 5: But one of the last few times that I saw 111 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 5: him before he went to rehab, he came to the 112 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 5: house with my mom's coffee order. The way he was 113 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 5: at that time, he seemed remorseful. 114 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: And that remorse gave Caroline the tiniest bit of hope. 115 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: As Joel prepared to go to rehab, she offered him 116 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: some grace. 117 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: After a lot of conversation, he and I agreed that 118 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: he could stay at our home in the guest bedroom 119 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: before he left for rehab. 120 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: Joel said he would come back from rehab a better man, 121 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: that he was getting help so he could salvage the family. 122 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: There was a big piece of Caroline and Nicole that 123 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: wanted to believe it. But the night before he left 124 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: for California, Nicole started to question was her dad actually 125 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 2: planning to come back. 126 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 5: He led me downstairs, showed me how to resep go 127 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 5: Wi Fi. He showed me like where our air filters are, 128 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 5: and then how to turn on and off the sprinkler 129 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 5: system for our house. It was just a bunch of 130 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 5: little things, and I remember thinking like, well, I guess 131 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 5: this is it. He's never going to come back to 132 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 5: the house because he was showing his seventeen year old 133 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 5: daughter had to change out the air filter. 134 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: There were a lot of conflicting feelings. Whenever Caroline was 135 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: kind to Joel, Nicole felt protective. One of his last 136 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 2: nights in the house, Caroline made Joel dinner. 137 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 5: Even after all what he did. Our mom made him tacos, 138 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 5: and I remember feeling so angry because I was like, 139 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 5: why are we even letting him stay in the first place. 140 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 5: If he doesn't want to show he wants to be 141 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 5: with us, just let him figure it out on his own. 142 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 5: I was just so frustrated at the situation at hand, 143 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 5: him going to rehab, him doing this to our family, 144 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 5: yet my mom is still trying to be a wife. 145 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 6: I guess. 146 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: It was a hard habit to break. Caroline's default mode 147 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: was to care for her family, even Joel, and he 148 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: was trying, or at least they thought he was. 149 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: I will admit we at one point had talked about 150 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: if he could show that he was truly someone who 151 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: struggled with addiction and was trying to engage in healthy behaviors, 152 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: that at some point we could be friends, then attempt 153 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: to date and start all over again. We have a 154 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: dry erase board in our kitchen that we would leave 155 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: notes for the kids, or reminders or a grocery list, 156 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, whatever that may look like. The night before 157 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: he left, he wrote a note to my daughter and 158 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: I that said I love you guys, I will and 159 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: underlined will get better. And I went to erase it, 160 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: and my daughter asked to keep it up for a while, 161 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: and then she made the decision of when it would 162 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: get erased. 163 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: That was the last message they would receive from Joel 164 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: for a while. He was required to give up his 165 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: phone during the first few weeks at rehab. 166 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: After two weeks at the facility, Joel was given his 167 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: phone back and he sends a text saying just how 168 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: incredible the facility is and he thinks it's going to 169 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: be beneficial to him that he wanted to be vulnerable 170 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: with me and the kids. 171 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: He described to Caroline how his behavior evolved, all of 172 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: it by text. We asked a voice actor to read 173 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 2: his messages. 174 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 7: I was playing an online game in two thousand and 175 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 7: five or six where people used an app called pal 176 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 7: Ringo to communicate about game strategy for several months. I 177 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 7: used it for that, and then out of curiosity, I 178 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 7: searched sexual terms and all these groups or chat rooms 179 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 7: popped up. People would post porn and homemade porn on them, 180 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 7: and that started my addiction that progressed into chatting with 181 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 7: females on there and sexting. 182 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: Joel said that led him to seek out other apps 183 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: like vet Life, the Cank and fetish Sight that he'd 184 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: been caught using at work. 185 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 7: I downloaded the app and found all kinds of porn 186 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 7: that included pictures and video. I found myself becoming more 187 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 7: immersed in it and growing resentful of you because I 188 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 7: could not please you like the men and the porn did. 189 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: Joel wasn't blaming her per se, but he was implying 190 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: that this was all about not being able to satisfy her. 191 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 7: I found myself starting to believe in the fantasy world, 192 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 7: and my self esteem crashed. There were no boundaries or 193 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 7: limitations in this fantasy world. I could say things to 194 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 7: women that were not imaginable in real life. 195 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 2: Joel went on to explain in graphic detail how this 196 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: fantasy escalated into real life actions. 197 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 7: I could get a blowjob and feel more manly. Once 198 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 7: I saw how easy it was, I got hooked on that. 199 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 7: I felt guilty and knew what I was doing was wrong, 200 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 7: but by then it didn't matter. Low self esteem, self hatred, depression, anxiety, 201 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 7: addiction all contributed to my behavior and actions, saying people 202 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 7: would not do what I did, but I literally was 203 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 7: not in my right mind. 204 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 2: Joel went on to say that this wasn't a justification 205 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 2: for his behavior, just an explanation. Then he tried to 206 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: assure her he had told her all of his secrets. 207 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 7: You have discovered everything, and I have told you about 208 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 7: all that is significant or I remember. I have tried 209 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 7: to explain it as best I can in this text. 210 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 7: Are there things I'm omitting absolutely, but not out of 211 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 7: intentional deception. I simply can't remember everything. I hope that 212 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 7: this in some way helps show that I'm being honest 213 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 7: and forthcoming about my actions. 214 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 2: Back in Colorado Springs, Nicole watched her mom grapple with 215 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: the tug of war between hurt and hope. 216 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 5: She was trying so hard to be with my dad 217 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 5: for the beginning of it, like trying to work through 218 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 5: it and trying to like maybe start fresh. 219 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 6: With him. 220 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: Still, Caroline felt that Joel was holding back. For example, 221 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: when she asked if he had affairs with any coworkers, 222 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 2: his response was, cage. 223 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 7: I want to engage in conversations to heal. I'd be 224 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 7: happy to address this, but I'm wary of piling on 225 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 7: for the divorce proceedings. If there is any hope of 226 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 7: working through this, then I want to address this. 227 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: Caroline suspected he was still carefully picking and choosing what 228 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: he'd fess up to. She wrestled with all of this 229 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: while trying to keep some normalcy for their daughter. Nicole 230 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: was a junior in high school, so while Joel was 231 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: in rehab, Caroline took her to tour a college campus 232 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: hundreds of miles from home. That's where Caroline was when 233 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: she got a call from Joel's case manager at the 234 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: treatment center. Joel gave the facility permission to keep Caroline 235 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: updated about his care, but this was the first time 236 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: she'd heard from a staff member. 237 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: And so she said, he said that it's important for 238 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: you to know that he is doing all these things 239 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: and trying to get better, to not only keep his job, 240 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: but to try to change and be a different person, 241 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: and so I tell her what he has told me 242 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: thus far, and she says there's a lot more. He's 243 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: actually said that he's done so much that if you 244 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: find out everything, there's no way you guys will be 245 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: able to stay together. 246 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: Then the case manager got to the point, the real 247 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: reason she was calling Caroline. 248 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: She said he was one of the worst cases of 249 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: sex addiction she had ever seen. 250 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: Caroline received a call from the rehabilitation center where Joel 251 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: was being treated. The case manager was direct with their 252 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: assessment of Joel. 253 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: She said he was one of the worst cases of 254 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: sex addiction she had ever seen. She's telling me all this, 255 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: and my head is just spinning. I'm on a campus, 256 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: trying to keep some normalcy for our daughter and let 257 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: her be able to get a glimpse of what her 258 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: future could be on a college campus. I'm trying to 259 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: hold it together emotionally for her. I'm trying to hold 260 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: it together emotionally for myself. 261 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: The case manager's words replayed in her head. Maybe this 262 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 2: story Joel was telling Caroline about reflections, breakthroughs, and progress 263 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: was just that a story. 264 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: One night, to get a phone call and he says 265 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: he has his ability to call people now, and he's 266 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: talking himself up and he's saying, you know what a 267 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,479 Speaker 1: leader he is at the facility that he doesn't think 268 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: he's even going to be there the full time because 269 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: he's just doing so great, and his therapist thinks he's amazing, 270 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: and he is taking on different leadership roles in his groups. 271 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: And I couldn't take it anymore. 272 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 2: So she told Joel about the phone call with the 273 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: case manager. The case manager's version of Joel's progress did 274 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: not match his. 275 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: Joel became infuriated, and he said that she was a bitch, 276 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: and you know this is why now he could see 277 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: why she was standoffish to him. 278 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: You know, he just. 279 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: Completely twisted it and earned it and then let me 280 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: know he didn't want her contacting me for anything ever again. 281 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: And so I said, sounds sounds appropriate at this point, 282 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: because you're not honest with me, and you're not honest 283 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: with this treatment team. 284 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: If he wasn't going to tell her the full truth, 285 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: she would investigate herself. 286 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: And I can't tell you what prompted me to finally 287 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: have this epiphany, but I did. I had this moment 288 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: after all of this, to pull our phone records. 289 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: To understand the gravity of this next story. We have 290 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: to go back in time, about five years prior, when 291 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: Nicole was in middle school. When I first introduced you 292 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: to the family, I told you that their son and 293 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: daughter were accomplished athletes and hard working students. It's extraordinary 294 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 2: they've maintained that, especially considering the trauma they've experienced. For Nicole, 295 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 2: it wasn't the first time she had faced adversity. 296 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 5: School, and the beginning years of high school definitely weren't 297 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 5: the best for me. 298 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: For several years, Nicole was bullied. She felt like one 299 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 2: girl had turned the entire school against her. 300 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 5: There was a ring later. It was the typical sort 301 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 5: of movie scene where she seemed really popular and had 302 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 5: a bunch of friends, and everyone was like crowding around her, 303 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 5: and her lunch table was big where mine was nuts. 304 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 5: It was hard forming some connections, and so a lot 305 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 5: of times family dinner would be the first time, like 306 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 5: I ever talked to anyone that day. It was hard, 307 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 5: So that structure of family dinner was important to me. 308 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: This Sprowl definitely was someone who was a leader amongst 309 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: her peers and somehow was able to get folks to 310 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: kind of side with her. In essence, and so she 311 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: often was able to rally folks to isolate our daughter. 312 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: Nicole would often be in tears talking about how this 313 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: little girl at school was bowling her relentlessly, and I 314 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: was really caught between a rock and a hard place, 315 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: between not wanting to give into a bully, but also 316 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: to try to instill self confidence in her and look 317 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: out for her safety. 318 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 2: Joel had casual contact with the mother of Nichole's bully 319 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: through the kids' activities. 320 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: I said, don't you think maybe we should sit down 321 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: and talk to her, And he said, let's see if 322 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: the girls can work this out on her own. And 323 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: he just reiterated that this was a piece of growing 324 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: up and that we really should reinstill self confidence in 325 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: our own child so that she could stick up for herself. 326 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 2: It was a painful chapter that only improved as Nicole 327 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 2: made more friends in high school. Okay, now back to 328 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: the phone records. 329 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: I had this moment after all of this to pull 330 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: our phone records. I searched the first number and it 331 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: came back as the mom of the little girl who 332 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: bullied our daughter so heavily throughout middle school and the 333 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: onset of high school. 334 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: It was right there in black and white, call after call, 335 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: text after text between Joel and the mother of Nicole's bully. 336 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: Around six in the morning, I called Joel and he 337 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: answered and I said, Joel, I just pulled our phone records. 338 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: Why are you in constant contact with And he got 339 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: really quiet and then he said she saw me at 340 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: target and thought I looked really skinny, and so she 341 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: was concerned for me. So she's just been checking on me. 342 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: And I said, no, I just don't believe you. 343 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: They both knew it was total bs, but for Joel, 344 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: lying was like a reflex. This time, Caroline demanded the truth, 345 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: and finally he confessed. 346 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: He said that he had been having an affair with 347 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: her since our son graduated from high school. It started 348 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: because she reached out to him and congratulated him on 349 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: all of our son's accolades. And then he was very 350 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: matter of fact and said, then she said to me, 351 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: I always look forward to seeing you because I thought 352 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: you were cute. And he said, from that moment, I 353 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: knew she'd be easy to have sex with. And so 354 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 1: he said that he started driving to her home at 355 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: least three times a week and would have sex with 356 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: her while he was on duty. 357 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: All of this was revealed on May eighth, which happened 358 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: to be Caroline's birthday and Mother's Day. At this point, 359 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 2: the kids insisted on knowing every new detail. They wanted 360 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: to know that truth, no matter how disturbing. 361 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 5: I was just about to turn seventeen. I didn't want 362 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 5: to be in the shadows, and I wanted like the 363 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 5: full picture of my dad. But then sometimes the full 364 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 5: picture of my dad was a little gory, and so 365 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 5: it was hard to hear. 366 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: Hard to hear is an understatement. Joel having an affair 367 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: with the mother of her bully was devastating. Nicole confronted 368 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: her dad. 369 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: She said, you knew what that girl did to me, 370 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: You knew how she treated me. 371 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 5: You knew that. 372 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes you and mommy were the first people I spoke 373 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: to all day because she got everyone to ignore me. 374 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: And then you went and had sex with her. 375 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 6: Mom and he just said, I'm sorry, And so it 376 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 6: was just kind of reality check, like my dad just 377 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 6: did not care, did not care about his actions and 378 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 6: who his actions affected. 379 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: This was the last straw for their son. 380 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 8: How apparent can witness firsthand the torment that another child 381 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 8: puts on their kid knowing this and then deciding I'm 382 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 8: going to have an affair with her mom. And so 383 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 8: there's the breaking point where it's like you are not 384 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 8: someone I look up to anymore. Your Joel to me, 385 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 8: now you can go fuck yourself. 386 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: The betrayal with the bully's mom was the deepest wound, 387 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: and the fact that Joel didn't tell his family about 388 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: it himself made it that much worse. But the phone 389 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: records revealed much more. The affairs didn't end there. Caroline 390 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 2: tracked down the identity of another phone number that appeared 391 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 2: multiple times. This discovery helped her to make sense of 392 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: something that had bothered her for years. 393 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: Like a lot of spouses who there's significant other spouse 394 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: is a police officer who works during the evening hours. 395 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: The kids and I would take him dinner, and so 396 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: when I would take him dinner, there was a specific 397 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: employee who was just so incredibly mean to me and 398 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: the kids. If our son would drive down and bring 399 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: him like ice cream or something like that, he would 400 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: notice that this specific person that she was just incredibly 401 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: rude and just not nice. 402 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: At Caroline, and she regularly brought it up to Joel and. 403 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: He would be like, Oh, look, you know, she's a 404 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: miserable person. That's just who she is. You got you 405 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: gotta let that go. 406 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: Turns out Joel had been contacting this coworker repeatedly. When 407 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 2: Caroline called Joel to ask if this was another affair, 408 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 2: he denied it. 409 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: He said, come on, Caroline, she's just checking on me 410 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: to make sure I'm okay. I said, I just don't 411 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: believe you, and I hung up, And then he admitted 412 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: that he had started having an affair with this employee 413 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: when he was a midnight lieutenant, and that the affair 414 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: had continued on, off and on intermittently over the years, 415 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: and that she was even in the process of booking 416 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: a ticket to come out and see him while he 417 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: was in rehab. 418 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: In one text, Joel laments about his situation to this 419 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 2: same coworker. 420 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 7: There are pages upon pages of my text exchanges with 421 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 7: you and our family phone bill line and the kids. 422 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 7: Seeing it has not lent me to building any trust. 423 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 7: I should be in contact with them, trying to win 424 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 7: their trust back. 425 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: He was attempting to cut off contact. It was too little, 426 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: too late. Only ten days after Caroline dealt with the 427 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 2: phone records, an emergency jolted her out of her grief. 428 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: It was our daughter. She was driving from lunch back 429 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: to school and she was hit by a driver who 430 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: had a long history of DUIs and the driver t 431 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: bones her and totals the car. I got there and 432 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: our daughter was just completely and shock and in a 433 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: ton of pain. 434 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: They drove to the hospital. Caroline felt it was important 435 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: to let Joel know, but his friends at CSPD had 436 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 2: beat her to the punch. 437 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: He proceeds to tell me how he already knew some 438 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: of the facts of the accident because his friends had 439 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: recognized her name on the call screen. 440 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 2: He knew and he didn't call Caroline. Nicole continues to 441 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: recover and still has anxiety about driving. In the weeks 442 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: that followed, the contact between Joel and Caroline mostly revolved 443 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: around logistics concerning the total car from the accident. There 444 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: wasn't much more to discuss. Then one day Caroline got 445 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: a call from the rehab They had a problem. 446 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: He says to me, Yeah, well, we're not knowing where 447 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: Joel's at, so we wanted to check in. Is he 448 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: with you or you know, do you know if he's 449 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: still at the facility And I said, no, I have 450 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: no idea, and so we still had his location on 451 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: all of our phone so I pulled up his location. 452 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: I can specifically see an address where he was at 453 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: in Hermosa Beach. And then I just looked at our 454 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: phone records, easy enough, and the phone records had one 455 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: specific number over and over again, and so I googled 456 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: the number. It comes up to a female's name, and 457 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: then I called the number and I just said, hey, 458 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: just to let you know my estranged husband. I believe 459 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: you're with him. He's at a treatment facility and they're 460 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: looking for him. It's important that you let him know 461 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: that they're looking for him. Shortly after that, I got 462 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: a phone call from Joel who said that he had 463 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: relapsed and had fallen prey to his addictions, and that 464 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: he had been meeting women online again and had been 465 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: going out to different areas surrounding Laguna and meeting women. 466 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,239 Speaker 2: Caroline sent emails to his case manager advising him of 467 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: where Joel had gone. With that email went Caroline's last 468 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 2: shred of hope. Joel hadn't let go of his habits, 469 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: he just relocated them. Caroline made the decision to prioritize 470 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: herself and her daughter's needs. 471 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: His next contact with me was to call to say 472 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: that he wanted me to know that he got a job. 473 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 2: This was June twenty twenty two. After about two months 474 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: in rehab, Joel told Caroline he was leaving. He landed 475 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: a new job outside of law enforcement. He was getting 476 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: his own apartment in Colorado. Caroline was confused. She thought 477 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: all of this was to try and save his job 478 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 2: at the police department. 479 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: And so he said he was at this point just 480 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: hoping he could retire without any type of concern or 481 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: charge of misconduct. 482 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 2: He wouldn't know if he would be criminally charged or 483 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: how his actions would affect his record until later in 484 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: the summer. Would he be allowed to retire scott free 485 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: or would there be consequences. We'll get to this in 486 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: our next episode. For now, though, Joel seemed to accept 487 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: that he had to move on from the CSPD. He 488 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: came back to Colorado to start a new job, and 489 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: Caroline got clear about their relationship. It was over. Now 490 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: they would have to work out the terms of their divorce, 491 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: so they set a meeting to hash out details concerning money, property, 492 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: and custody. 493 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: He and I agree that we'll meet on the fourth 494 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: of July to agree on some things to be able 495 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: to divide them out, and we agree to meet at 496 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: a coffee shop that we used to frequent together a lot. 497 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: And so when I walked into the coffee shop, it 498 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: was just so bizarre. I see this older gentleman who 499 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: clearly is not my husband. I see a young teenager 500 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: who obviously is not my husband. And then I see 501 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: this man who was fully bearded, hair is shaggy, he's 502 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: wearing a fedora and a skull shirt, and he's waving 503 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: at me from a distance. And I had to take 504 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: pause and stand for several seconds and the entryway of 505 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,719 Speaker 1: this coffee shop and stare at him. Joel had always 506 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: been someone who was extremely clean cut, and I just 507 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: sat down. And so as I sat down, he had 508 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: his phone facing up and I could see prompt after 509 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: prompt after prompt coming up, you know, just notification after 510 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: notification after notification of his own of various dating apps, 511 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: tender bumble, and it was just constant, constant, constant. 512 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 2: Caroline ignored the unending alerts. Then the conversation turned to 513 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 2: their daughter. Following the incident with her bully's mother. Nicole 514 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: refused to be in contact with Joel, but she was seventeen, 515 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: so there was still the issue of child support. 516 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: He said he shouldn't have to pay child support for 517 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: someone who wasn't in contact with him, and so we 518 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: went back and forth, and we even talked about that 519 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: when we went through the mediation process, and I could 520 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: not see myself forcing her to go through that. I mean, 521 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: my attorney advised me that we could go and have 522 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: court testimony and take a look at what a judge 523 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: would rule in that, and I just agreed to waive 524 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: child support so that I didn't have to put her 525 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: through that. After we agreed on how things would be 526 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: divided out, we started walking out of the coffee shop. 527 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: He walks me over to where I parked, and it's 528 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: such an ironic memory because I see his watch and 529 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: I can just see the constant notifications, and so I 530 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: thought to myself, let's see what you say, and I 531 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: just said, your phone kept going off and your watch 532 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: is going off so much. And his comment was, these 533 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: are all my friends from rehab and my therapist. They 534 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: just keep reaching out to me. I mean, even in 535 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: that moment after everything that had gone on, he just 536 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: looked at me and lied, I mean blatantly lied, and 537 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: so I didn't even argue with him on it. I 538 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: just nodded my head and then I said, thanks for 539 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: meeting me, have a good Fourth of July. And then 540 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: he said, can I have a hug? And I said no, 541 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: and then he just stared at me for several seconds, 542 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: and like his voice was cracking, and he said, you 543 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: will always be. 544 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 9: The love of my life. 545 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: And I just stared at. 546 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 10: Him, and then he said, I hope you know I 547 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 10: love you more than anything in this world and I 548 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 10: always will. And all I could stay back was okay, 549 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 10: and we parted ways and that was the last time 550 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 10: we saw each other and probably ever will. 551 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 2: On the next episode of Betrayal. 552 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 9: When I came home, there was this envelope taped to 553 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 9: our front door, and she just had this desperation in 554 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 9: her face, like she just was hoping for it, and 555 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 9: she said, oh, my gosh, is that from my dad? 556 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Betrayal season four. If you 557 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 558 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 2: us at betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 559 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow 560 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 2: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H. 561 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way 562 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 2: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 563 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star 564 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal 565 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 2: is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass 566 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 2: Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is 567 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin. Betrayal is 568 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced 569 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 2: by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate 570 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,439 Speaker 2: producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart team 571 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, 572 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 2: Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins. 573 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 2: Special thanks to voice actor John Blomo, and special thanks 574 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by 575 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 2: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music and for 576 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeart visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts 577 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: for wherever you get your podcasts.