1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: It could happen here coming to you live from my 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: room in Chicago. But but importantly we were coming to 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: your life, and it could happen here Central where the 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: gamers have seized the pod. It is me, Christopher, it 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: is Garrison. Hello, fellow gamer. Hello, and in the gaming 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: trenches with my razor headset on, looking into my uh 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: NA video powered view flinder, and I'm ready to continue 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: on the fight. It's gonna be great. We're talking about 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: talking about gaming, We're talking about the military, we're talking 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: about why the two of them crossing is extremely bad. 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: And uh with us to talk about this are two 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: people who are somewhat less clownish than we are. Um. 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: This is Katie and Chris from Gamers for Peace, which 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: is an initiative of Vesterans for Peace. Well, welcome to 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: the show. Hello, Hey, thank you. I take offensive dying 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: called less clowns, and I'm just trying to live up 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: to your standard. I'll have you know. I am very, 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: very clownish and clumsy and all of those good things. 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: And he trusted me with weapons. Oh God. So I 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: guess starting out I wanted to talk about I guess 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: very generally the history of counter recruitment, because this is 22 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: something that's been going on in the U. S. Military 23 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: for I mean, it really is like from from what 24 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: I could tell, like about as long as there's been 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, recruitment for the military. But I was wondering 26 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: if we could start I don't know, maybe maybe maybe 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: around sort of the Vietnam era when you when there's 28 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, very very serious and intense sort of left 29 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: wing kind of recruitment, and then we can go from there. Yeah. Yeah, 30 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: So coming out of a Vietnam you have Vietnam Veterans 31 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: against the war forming, uh, and there's a massive pushback 32 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: on uh, the draft. Uh. The anti war movement is 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: pretty much at its strongest, and Vietnam Veterans against war 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: over time becomes a veteran for peace. Veterans for Peace 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: has a long legacy of sitting at the front of 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: the anti war movement peace movement, participating in nuclear abolition work, 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: kind of recruitment work, the escalation work out of Save 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Our v A, helping veterans get assistance with disability benefits, 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: and making sure that the traumas that veterans suffer and 40 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: the communities of um impacted by the military suffer are 41 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: getting treatment for the care UH deported veterans because Vietnam 42 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: that's served and then got deported, and that continues to 43 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: this day. UH SO Veterans for Peace at a multi 44 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: pronged approach, the anti war efforts and UH two thousands 45 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: around UH two thousand seven, Ish Iraq Afghanistan Iraq Veterans 46 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: against the War later known as Iraq Afghanistan Veterans Against 47 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: the War comes along and that's a new generation of 48 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: veterans carrying a long built on the legacy of Veterans 49 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: for Peace and being non veterans against the war. UM 50 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's a long history of coffee shops, g 51 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: I Resistance, UM Outreach doing work with veterans, trying constances 52 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: objective object or work um GI resisted work in in there, 53 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: and there's just a long legacy of just veterans sharing 54 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: their experiences and coming back and really ah wanting to 55 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: make sure nobody else goes through that and making sure 56 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: that they get the help they need and kind of 57 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: slow that that beat of the war drum that seems 58 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: to media seems to always be picking up, and that's 59 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: where we came in. That's definitely a good way to 60 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: put it now, UM, especially born out of the pandemic, 61 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the recruiting had to move online. They 62 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: didn't really have if they wanted to keep recruiting, they 63 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: had to go online, and that's where a majority of 64 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: the newest generation is they are watching Twitch. Twitch had 65 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: a viewership like pretty much competing with Netflix streaming UM 66 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: as of this summer, and I'm sure that hasn't really 67 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: changed much. I'm sure it is just as popular UM 68 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: and the audience for Twitch skews very young. So that's 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: really what started to worry members of Veterans for Peace, like, Okay, 70 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: we might need to ramp up truth and recruitment UM initiatives, 71 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: which is what Games for Peace came out of. Because 72 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: the thing is, if you're forming a paras social relationship 73 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: with these younger kids by streaming and forming those laserships, 74 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: getting them on discord and talking to them, you're getting 75 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: a one sided view of what military services about, and 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: you are definitely not getting the uh, imperialist informed viewpoint 77 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: for sure. UM. So Venoms for Peace kind of came 78 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: out of that. That's like very insidious looking, uh, hidden 79 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: and subtle way of recruiting using the video games that 80 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: have already historically been used for recruiting purposes. So it's 81 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: like a double it's like a double way they got 82 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: on us there for those not inundated in the game 83 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: or warfare like we are. Um, how let's I think 84 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: we should briefly describe what twitches because I know a 85 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: lot of people probably probably isn't actually aware of of Twitch. 86 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: That's whereas we are down in these trenches finding off 87 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: the cyber net stuff bad sor yeah. Yeah, So I 88 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: guess twitches like a live stream platform that is primarily 89 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: used for live streaming people playing video games, and people 90 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of help their own like brands and like personalities 91 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: and like paras social relationships with an audience via them 92 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: playing these games and kind of adding their commentary, you know, 93 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: variety of games. You know, sometimes it's like mostly chatting 94 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: with people like inside like a group chat while playing 95 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: a game. Um or you know, it's of more focused 96 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: on the game itself. It kind of varies, but yeah, 97 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's it's arguably the biggest live 98 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: streaming platform. I think it was brought by Amazon a 99 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: few years ago. Um, and yes, there is a there 100 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: is a US there's a there's a few US like 101 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: military channels on there that are actually relatively popular. UM. 102 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: I guess the other thing to kind of get into 103 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: for some background is, like you mentioned, you already kind 104 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: of alluded to this, but like the history of the U. 105 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: S Military using video games for propaganda because they've been 106 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: they've been one of the earliest funders of games for 107 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: this reason. I think getting into that history is like interesting, 108 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: um and something that some people are definitely aware of, 109 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: but a lot of times can get overlooked, despite you know, 110 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: Call of Duty being the one of the biggest video 111 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: game franchises in the world. Yeah. Absolutely, the UM military 112 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: and involvement in video game video game design using as recruitment, 113 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: using it primary Initially, at first it was thought of 114 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: as a training tool and they started looking at it 115 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: for training. UM. If you think back to like early 116 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: nineties Doom, the original Doom had a mod released h 117 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: called the Marine Mod. It was a modification designed for 118 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps to use to train marines and as 119 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: early as the early nineties when Doom was at its height, 120 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: and then then that grows from there. You have First 121 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: to Fight, uh what is it? Uh? Game called First 122 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: to Fight features Marine Corps marines and dress blues where 123 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: you're tactically uh fighting a battle and um in which 124 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: you never want to do. If you know anything about 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps Blues, you do not want to be 126 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: doing anything in those that isn't getting drunk exactly, just 127 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: drunk and dancing and blues is all they're good for. UM. Yeah, 128 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: so you have you have a first to fight and 129 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: then it turns into Call of Duty America's Army, which 130 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: thankfully just got pulled down all its platform from its platform. 131 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: That's a huge win. But the Army started design getting 132 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: into the development of video games for training, UH and 133 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: then got into it for as recruiting, and America's Army 134 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: is a perfect highlight of that where they just flat 135 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: out had recruitment posters and training things UH in there 136 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: with links to how to get to recruiters or get 137 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: more information about joining the military joining the army. UM 138 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: you have armor to uh. You could you could argue 139 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: and draw the line from military training simulators to pub 140 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: G Underground, which is one of the uh most biggest 141 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: Battle Royale games, which is where you get Fortnite out of. 142 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: So you can draw these lines straight from the military's 143 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: involvement in designing training and recruitment materials to what our 144 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: kids are playing the most these days. And really one 145 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: of the most kind of sick factors of this is 146 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: like how much games have been designed and pushed towards 147 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: basically training people for um like uh, I guess we're 148 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: trying to think of the term, but like combat at 149 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: a distance in terms of like drawing, like drone combat. 150 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: There's just like they started just using Xbox controllers for 151 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: some like drone missions. Like like it's like they're specifically 152 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: looking at the pipeline of specifically young males who get 153 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: into this type of gaming and trying everything they can 154 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: to push them into a career where they just kill 155 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: people in overseas countries using the same technology, using you know, 156 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: using video game controllers, using like you know, operating systems 157 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: very similar to what we're being used in video games. 158 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: And I mean, like in video games are a very 159 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: effective propaganda tool. If you're thinking, like, Okay, I mean 160 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: I just enjoy playing war games. It's not like, what's 161 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: what's the big deal? Like sure, like I also enjoy 162 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: playing war games. Sometimes they can be a fun um 163 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, I like this like tactics based games. But 164 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: these have been shown to be very effective at recruitment, 165 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: to the point that video game footage and video games 166 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: were like one of isis favorite recruitment and propaganda tactics 167 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: as well, like this is it's a it's a thing, 168 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: like it's not it's not just like oh, it's fine, 169 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Like no, these these things are actually kind of a 170 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: profit of Yeah. Um, they are very effective in that 171 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: manner as a recruiting a tool, and there is a 172 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: real synergy between gaming developers and the d o D 173 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: because of how effective, uh, you know that recruiting can be, 174 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: or the recruiting tool can be. Um, similar to movies, 175 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, the military entertainment complex is a term thrown 176 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: around a lot for good reason. You know, you have 177 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: there is a black box of politics. Whenever you're watching 178 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: a movie that picks u yeah, some sort of power 179 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: structure against whatever the villain is doing. There's there, there's 180 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: always something there, and video games are not too different 181 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: from that. Just have a little bit more say and 182 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: where the story goes, but maybe not even it depends 183 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: on the development. But um, there's article in The Atlantic 184 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: that was it was actually like about a book. Um, 185 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: from because Dexter Thomas warplay and it's all about video 186 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: gaming and the relationship with the military. And they said 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: the Pentagon avoids pitiful, expensive efforts to create their own 188 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: training simulators, and developers get fat government checks so they 189 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: can help fund these new games, new virtual reality things 190 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: under the guys of it being a useful training tool 191 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: for training in like virtual virtual reality environments, which it 192 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: scares me already. Um, And then game developers are like, great, 193 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: I can get a government grant, so even if this flops, 194 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: we still got the money out of it. That's not 195 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: an uncommon phenomena. Yeah, I mean in terms of like filmmaking, Yeah, 196 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: like there's been there's rules for like Pentagon contracts with 197 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: film studios still be like, if you want to use 198 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: you know, U. S. Military equipment or personnel, you need 199 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: to follow these specific rules to betray the military in 200 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: this light, um, which often do get followed just because 201 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: people want to use the cool equipment and stuff. You know. 202 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm still angry that my that my beloved Transformers got 203 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: cooked by the U. S. Military and all of their 204 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: films um. And as a result of films are pretty 205 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: pretty bad. Um. Yeah, I'll have you know they are 206 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: film are you know? I'm sorry, I can't even keep 207 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: you straight. I hope I as a as someone with 208 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: many many star scream action figures, I I dream of 209 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: one day of having good Transformers movies, classic, the you know, 210 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: the eighties classic, Um, You've Got You've Got the Touch, 211 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: um and the Bumblebee film is okay, but it's even 212 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: still that one got coocked, that one got cooked by 213 00:12:47,360 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: the military pretty pretty severely. Yes, it's it's funny that 214 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: you mentioned isis using video gaming. Uh, there's just a 215 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,599 Speaker 1: recent report came out. It's linked to the u N. 216 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: I believe it's linked to the u N. Council on 217 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: Counter Terrorism or Office counter Terrorism. Uh, talking about violent 218 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: extremism and gaming, the link between video games and violent extremism. 219 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: And what's really interesting is it's not so much that 220 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: the video games themselves are the issue. It's the gaming 221 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: adjacent space. It's it's the para social relationship development, it's 222 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: the meme, and it's the what what we've what we've 223 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: known in in the gaming world for a while as 224 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: associated with like the behaviors and culture around gamer Gate 225 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: and things things like that, where we see this, uh, 226 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: this toxic culture that um is easy to cultivate inside 227 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: these spaces and and be co opted for more to 228 00:13:54,920 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: various things. UM. And that doesn't that's that doesn't mean 229 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,479 Speaker 1: that the military isn't banking or utilizing these same principles 230 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: to get its recruiting messages across. The military is another 231 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: violent extreme position, right. You're whether it's you're the violent 232 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: arm of capitalism and the state or or violent like 233 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: domestic terrorists or something like that, you're still um opting 234 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: into or your position is still getting mobilized towards potentially 235 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: doing violence. And these gaming adjacent spaces are make it 236 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: really easy for recruiters of all sorts to be in 237 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: there and uh push people to more of that side 238 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah. One of the things I remember when 239 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: I was like a teenager on Twitch was like, so 240 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: I watched just like a lot of harsh touch streams, right, 241 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: and this was like these were, you know, like completely 242 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: main light, hard stone streams. And there was there was 243 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: this artist who everyone called Kebab the German and uh, yeah, 244 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: so it turns out that Cabab the German was a miss. 245 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: It was like a shortening like abbreviation of his actual name. 246 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: Which was removed Kebab, and this guy's stuff was just 247 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: being played on like every major like like Twitch, like 248 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: all the major artonal streaments were just playing remove Kebab 249 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: songs and it was like and this this was just 250 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: like what like this is just what Twitch was in 251 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: like and yeah, like there there's so much like the 252 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: the extent to which just this sort of like i 253 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: mean just overtly fascist like melieu would just seep into 254 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: just like you know, here's a bunch of people playing 255 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: a card game and like it wasn't it wasn't even 256 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: like like I mean, some of these streamers were like 257 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: really reactionally like I've seen I've seen t streamers who 258 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: like will like watch videos of like cops doing right 259 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: like raids on people's houses on stream. Like you know, 260 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: it's like you have those people who are like really 261 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: far right, but some of these people were just like 262 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, they're just a lot of them are 263 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: just regular reels extremists. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just sort 264 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: of culturally value. Yeah. Well even then, like some of 265 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: them just like I think with like like with with 266 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: with with like with the Germans, like they just didn't know, 267 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: like they just they just like didn't know what was 268 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: going on, and so they were just you know, spreading 269 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: all of this stuff and it was like it was horrifying. Yeah. Absolutely, 270 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: And actually I'm glad you mentioned that because about a 271 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: year ago, the the Army Sports Channel got in trouble 272 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: because one of the streamers didn't catch on to to 273 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: there were two user names that were explicitly white supremacist. 274 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: One of them was um six million was not enough. 275 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah uh yeah, yeah, real, real gross. And I guess 276 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: like just in the whole idea of multitasking between playing 277 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: a game, trying to interact with chat, and trying to 278 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: make sure you're you're on screen and all of those things, 279 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: they didn't realize it, or they willfully didn't realize it. 280 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't know which one, and I'm not going to 281 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: make a judgment either way, but they did. They had 282 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: to shut down that stream, and I don't think they 283 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: streamed for a couple of weeks after that. They had 284 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: to like reassess some some things because they're like, hey, actively, 285 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, white supre him is this people are on 286 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: your stream? You should probably you should probably do something 287 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: about that. And I feel like, if you're the U 288 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: s military streaming on Twitch. That someone's job should just 289 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: be to prevent that from happening, like the resources. Yeah, 290 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: but like they kind of have this problem with though, 291 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: because Twitch has a there's a there's a huge just 292 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: like like core, like a large enough base of Twitch 293 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: users are just like fascist or like hard right wingers 294 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: that do things like like there have been a persistent 295 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: problem on Twitch for for years now of like these 296 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: hate raids, like people doing mass raids on like anyone 297 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: who's not white and anyone who's like not just white dude, 298 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: and just like hate rating their channels and like spamming 299 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: the chat with like slurs and stuff like that. And 300 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: you know when when that's you know, and that that's 301 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: too large, Like yeah, like those those are the people, 302 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: like you know that that's a large enough part of 303 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: Twitch that like even even even if you're like taking 304 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: the most charitable thing, which that the US, like the 305 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: Army is not overtly recruiting white supremacists, which like okay, 306 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: but like even even if you give them the benefit 307 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: of the doubt, right, like that that's a large enough 308 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: part of just what Twitch is. They haven't a cent 309 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: of in front of blind eye and and radicalization, specifically 310 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: right wing and white nationalist radicalization in the military is 311 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: well studied and well established as an existing phenomena. I 312 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: knew someone personally who uh got caught trying to smuggle 313 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: weapons for a neo Nazi group, and that's all I'll 314 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: say on that. Boy. Yeah, yeah, No, it is a thing, 315 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: and it hits really close. It is definitely a phenomena 316 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: that happens in the military, and um, these paramilitary Nazi 317 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: groups actively recruit from people coming out in the military 318 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: because they have the training set they want. And I mean, 319 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: I trying to figure out a way to tie this 320 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: back to recruiting online. But it's like, with all of 321 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: this in mind, it is very insidious that the target 322 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: is explicitly young kids. And I'm not saying that just 323 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you know, because we've got a 324 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: lot of We've gotten pushed back was saying, well, the 325 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: military doesn't recruit kids, so you can only sign up 326 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: for their seventeen About that a kid. That was completely bullshit. 327 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: That is a kid. Second of all, it's like, the 328 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: thing is it's it's it's just like grooming children. That's 329 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: that's what it is. Like. It it's the same process 330 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: of grooming. That's that's what's going on. Yeah, one of 331 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: one of my best friends growing up, like because it 332 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: was my best friend for like a decade, Like I 333 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: met him in first grade. He was my friend for 334 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: the entirety of school and then he got like because 335 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: his parents sent him away to like one of one 336 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: of those like uh like summer like like military school camp, 337 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: and he was just never the same afterwards, and he's 338 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: like a fascist now, And yeah, that's it sucks. Yeah, 339 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: that does suck. That. There's not a better word for that. 340 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: That that sucks because yeah, they can't sign up until 341 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: they're seventeen, but that's not the point. Isn't convince seventeen 342 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: year olds? The point the points to Ingraine this, I 343 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: d in them when they're like sucking twelve years old 344 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: on the internet. And that is just what grooming is, right, 345 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: Starting it when you're when they're young, so when they're 346 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: old enough they will be able to sign up for 347 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: the thing. Like that's that's what the process is, and 348 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: that's what like, you know, military propaganda recruitment's been doing 349 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: for a long time, but the specifically the way it's 350 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: being done on the internet around gaming is extrasidious. It 351 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: was literally it is explicitly said by one of UM 352 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: A recruiting officer, Dr. E. Casey Wardinsky. And I apologize 353 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: if I'm pronouncing that wrong, but the you literally said 354 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: we have to confront this question. I willie wait until 355 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: they're seventeen or really start talking to them at age twelve, thirteen, 356 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen when they form the set of things they 357 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: were thinking about doing with their life. Because we're literally 358 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: saying we want to groom children. Is like, yeah, so 359 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: I think now would be the time to kind of 360 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: get into the countering side of things. It's like, yes, 361 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: this is a this is a big problem, as we've 362 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: laid out the past twenty minutes of what can we 363 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: do about it? Yeah, so what can we do about it? 364 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: There's um a good deal that we can do about it? Right, 365 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: UM we we Veterans for Peace, the Truth and Recruitment 366 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: UH working Group came up with an idea for the 367 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: Games for Peace Initiative concerned veterans and gamers and UH 368 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: and allies because Veterans for piecesn't just comprised the veterans themselves, 369 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: it's also allies and accomplices. UM came together and started 370 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: forming an online community of our own UM where we 371 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: have kind of adopted some four channels. Have changed this 372 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: concept of four channels to change. One do education talking 373 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: about UH, sharing our experiences as veterans, talking about and 374 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: unpacking recruitment tactics and techniques. UH. Start talking being extremely 375 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: vocal and raise awareness around the recruitment techniques that we've 376 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: we've already been talking about. Right. Uh. Second, we're doing 377 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: some mentorship and leadership stuff, starting to develop programs in 378 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: local communities that offer alternatives to the economic draft. Right, 379 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: like just throwing it back to where we started talking 380 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: about coming out of Vietnam. It has already said that 381 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: sergeant hard Times is the best recruiter and it posts 382 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: posts the drafts we went when we went to an 383 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: all volunteer force. You have to have a reason to join. 384 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: And there's a thing called the economic draft. And it's 385 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: the impoverished conditions that many kids in people face that 386 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: forced them to go into the military. Right, you don't 387 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: have healthcare coming out of high school, you're in an 388 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: abusive home, you're not talking to a guidance counselor, no 389 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: college is coming to you don't know how to pay 390 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: for college. You don't know where what you're going to 391 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: do because you're eighteen and on your own. And that's 392 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: what we keep telling kids. So you have the economic draft, 393 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: which encourage gives an opportunity for recruiters to go, hey, 394 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: this this program will solve everything. And what what people 395 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: don't realize is what's being asked is are you willing 396 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: to kill for a camaro? Are you willing to kill 397 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: just to have a roof over your head? Are you 398 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: willing to kill for medicare? Right? So we're starting to 399 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: focus on developing mentorship and leadership program UM include helping 400 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: kids and young adults get into college or find mutual 401 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: aid programs within their communities, start doing stuff locally because 402 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: this is the problem is pervasive. Right. Not everybody needs 403 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: to escape abuse of home and it is fine staying 404 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: in their community, but doesn't know how to survive within 405 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: the community because they don't have the resources there. And 406 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: we also look at the what's going on in the 407 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: world today and and recognize that things must be done 408 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: at a local level, UM, and you can be part 409 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: of leading that change. Right In teresting some of the 410 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: our world concerns, we ourselves do direct actions. We go 411 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: to gaming conventions, speak out, try to actually do counter 412 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: recruitment right where the recruiters are. We just it's really pervasive. 413 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: If you if you if you go to any kind 414 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: of con or any kind of can any kind of 415 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: like game fest or whatever, um, you know, co comic cons, 416 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 1: there will always be multiple military recruitment booths there, like 417 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: like Navy, Marines, Army National Guard, like all of them 418 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: that they they will all all be there. It's not 419 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: not like favorite thing to see. No, No, it's frustrating. Yeah, 420 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: board games aren't even safe, right. The Army E Sports 421 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: team has a forty K team, So if you play 422 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: Warhammer forty K, they have nationally or internationally ranked forty 423 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: K team playing in the major circuits. You know, it's 424 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: most insulting about that. Sorry, Chris, it's most insulting about that. 425 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: And I know this because one of the streams that 426 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: we do, I hosted, is called ad Slam because we 427 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: started out as like roasting military recruitment ads, but it 428 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: kind of morphed into just like general veteran and military 429 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: depictions and media, and one of them was on the 430 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: or at least referenced the Army e Sports Warhammer forty 431 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: K team. And you know how people will like take 432 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: their figurines really seriously, they paint them. They look really cool. 433 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: The Army like spray painted them gold and it's called 434 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: the Day. And I'm like, really, you have all of 435 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: these resources, you are using the recruiting budget, which is 436 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: ridiculous and astronomical, and you spray painted them gold. Are 437 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: you kidding me? Come on? And it's is insulting that 438 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: it was so low effort, but they still get the praise. Um. 439 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: A lot of people report like having positive viewpoints of 440 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: the military after interacting with members of you know, the 441 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: East or team or the booth or whatever. So I'm 442 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm genuinely annoyed that it's also low effort on that 443 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: matter and they're still getting a positive response. Bothers me, 444 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: that's a perfect highlight because being there on like hate 445 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: using military terms nowadays, but being their boots on ground, 446 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, uh at at these conventions, uh doing providing 447 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: truth and recruitment right, talking about alternatives. Uh really just 448 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: being there in front of recruiters and and talking to 449 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: the people that they're targeting and family members, letting them 450 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: know like, hey, we as veterans. Right, don't let this 451 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: be what shapes your child's future or your future. Right, 452 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: there's other opportunities for you. Um and and you know 453 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: whether that's if you're in the gaming start designing games, right, Like, 454 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: there's there's so many opportunities within the gaming community that 455 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: doesn't want to put you into the military pipeline also, right, 456 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: So it's not the game's fault. It's not like it's 457 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: it's that the state's using right now, right, um. And 458 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: then we're trying to form some our Arny sports teams also, right, 459 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: so we can compete directly against them, kick their as 460 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: in some of the tournaments at day host. Um. You know, 461 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: my my dream is to see some gamers for Peace 462 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: jerseys getting awarded like some trophy next to the Army 463 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: sports team and just dunking on them so across all 464 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: the But if we lose, if we're up there, we 465 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: still get to dunk on them. See, we had so 466 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: much more fun. We don't have to go clean up 467 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: barracks room after this. Like the ultimate goal being us 468 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: being able to provide tangible alternatives. So a kid coming 469 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: out of high school thinking like well, I either go 470 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: into a lot of debt to go to college or 471 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: I joined the military. If we can get um not 472 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: a hold of them, that seems predatory, but if we 473 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: can talk to them, or our organization can provide to 474 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: that alternative and say, oh, well, you don't really have 475 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: to do that. We have a scholarship program that we 476 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: can offer you, or we can provide a lae at 477 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: the very least education about what they're really getting into 478 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: so they can make a better informed decision. Because the 479 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: main problem that I have with the way that recruiting 480 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: works is that you are not getting a view of 481 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: what life would actually be like. You are not getting 482 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: a view of what you're fighting for. That there's a 483 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: whole lot of like these vague concepts that they tell 484 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 1: you that you're fighting for and then you're supposed to 485 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: feel great about doing but none of those are real 486 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: in practice, liberty or protecting the homeland, none of that 487 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: is what you're doing. You're helping Northrop Grumman create a profit. Right, Like, 488 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: there's uh and so at least, at the very least, 489 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: someone who thinks that they have no other options, and 490 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 1: in this country that might not be too far off. Right, 491 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: we don't have a universal health care system. That was 492 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: part of the reason why I joined the Marine Corps, 493 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: that I knew I would get health care and I 494 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: knew I would get money to go to college and 495 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: not be in this loan debt that I was in. 496 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: So I'm definitely not alone in that. And UM, if 497 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: maybe we can even just provide a more holistic view 498 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: of what decision that you're making, that would be considered 499 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: a win to us. So that was my soapbox. One 500 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: of the important things is trying to push back on 501 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: the most nefarious things that we're seeing, right, whether that's 502 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: games that are becoming way to train training simulator. UH. 503 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: There's another campaign that Games for Peace worked on and 504 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: Veterans for Peace worked on at the platform, Six Days 505 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: with Care the Council on American and Islamic Relations UH 506 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: pushing back on again called six Days in Flucia, which 507 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: was delayed to quarter four two of this year. So 508 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: we got it was pushed by a year, whether through 509 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: our efforts or for whatever reason, but it was pushed 510 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: by a year. UM. And this game is dubbed a 511 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: murder simulator, UH, because it is. We look at other 512 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: games like Escape from Tarkov as as teaching fundamental skills 513 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: through tried and true teaching methodologies for military skills. Um. 514 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: You know, we were talking about counter recruitment and truth 515 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: and recruitment to give people an opportunity to make informed 516 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: have an informed decision about their participation in the war machine. 517 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: But also we're trying to push back directly on the 518 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: war machine and and say hey, there's better uses of 519 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: our money for for as as a government to take 520 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: care of our people. There's a lot of fundamental things. 521 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: There's the contributions to the climate crisis. Is the military's 522 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: number one impact? Uh impact or of the on the 523 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: climate war is never green You can't green wash the military. Um. 524 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 1: The you know, we have just so much going on 525 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: around own all the ways that people don't realize that 526 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: militaries involved. We have the future of German warfare, kill, 527 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: cloud technology, gaming technology, and the military and militarism is 528 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: so tightly wound right now that just pushing back and 529 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: trying to parse those two things apart is one of 530 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: the things that is most effective for counter recruitment and 531 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: also for mobilizing people to be like, hey, we actually 532 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: deserve better, like get out of my gaming space and 533 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: like get me some food, sovereignty, get me, get me, Like, 534 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: let's let me be part of my community. Get out 535 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: of the gaming space and stop using what is fun 536 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: and has actual educational value mental health benefits, physical health benefits, 537 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: communal impact, social impact like this, this gaming tool, this 538 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: gaming technology we have can be used for so much good. Uh, 539 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: but we need to disentangle the military's usage from it 540 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: and and stop framing our our time, our time enjoy 541 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: that we enjoy with our friends and family through the 542 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: lines at the military forces to view with her. Because 543 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: there are so many great games out there, like like 544 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: we are in one of like right now, we have 545 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: the most amount of games ever released, most amount of 546 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: good games, like always being announced and released all the time. 547 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: There's so many great stuff to play, and yeah, there's 548 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: anything that can be done to push people away from 549 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: stuff that kind of promotes this, you know, colonial imperial 550 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: it's kind of mindset um is great, right, Like that's 551 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: why I kind of appreciate the cartoony aspects of Fortnite, 552 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: even though I hate playing Fortnite and we'll never really 553 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: do so, I still appreciate it as opposed to like 554 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,959 Speaker 1: the heavily militaristic kind of aesthetics that other you know, 555 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: similar Battle Royals show, um, because I mean because with 556 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: with with as many games out there as there is. Yeah, 557 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: I think any kind of attempts to push people away 558 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: from the more problematic aspects of you know, specifically shooting 559 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: games is great. Yeah, And just noting that when you're 560 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: playing these games, especially if they are relatively close to reality, UM, 561 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: understand the impact that you can have uh by pointing 562 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: out simply that your friend doesn't respawn in real life, right. 563 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: And also keep in mind if you are playing a 564 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: game that that is close to a recent reality, that 565 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: you could be playing through someone's actual trauma. So I'm 566 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: not telling you not to play the games if they 567 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: are We've gone over a couple like Squad uh and 568 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: and others that are like very very realistic um in 569 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: their application. Just keep in mind when you're playing it 570 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: that maybe look at it through that lens, like would 571 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: how would you feel if you were playing through a 572 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: game but it was the exact moment of your trauma. 573 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: And I'm not even saying from the military side, I 574 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: mean from from the people who are being bombed side, 575 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, So just just want to have more people 576 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: be more mindful with what they consume and how. And 577 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: again I'm not telling you not to consume it, just 578 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: telling you to think a little bit about it and 579 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: what that type of media can do while having that 580 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: baggage onto it. And there is a place for that's 581 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: in the military experience in gaming. Right Like when I 582 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: was in when I was deployed to Iraq, I took 583 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: an Xbox Sege six year over there with me in 584 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: an to bottom my sea bag and we had on 585 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: Camp Filia, we had a local area network of Xboxes 586 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: in all the cans. When we sat there and played 587 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: Halo and and Gears of War and when that dropped 588 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: walls there, right, Like, that's how we stay in touch 589 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: with each other. It's how we process like auditory things 590 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: and and and our combat experiences. Right, That's that's valid 591 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: sublimation and processing of our traumatic experiences a thing, and 592 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: games have that. And that's not a military exclusive thing 593 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: or a veteran exclusive thing. That's for all communities. Um. 594 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: But what we have to do is add context and 595 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: nuance to when we're playing these games and go, oh, um, 596 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: there's another side to this story. That's the local civilian 597 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: that just had a bomb cave in ceiling. Right. Uh, 598 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: there's there's these these instances where we've removed that because 599 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: we're so focused on the competitive nature instead of the 600 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: storytelling in the full scope of what that game is 601 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: allowing us to process. Um. And that's why I don't like, 602 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm not blaming recruiters or blaming like coming up to 603 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: people in the military and going, you know, you're horrible. 604 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: It's not the right thing. Hey, I was there, right, 605 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: I did six years in the Marine Corps and and um, 606 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, instead of going, hey, you're a horrible person 607 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: or things like that, like, we're trying to offer them 608 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: them the recruiters and other military members of the community 609 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: that go, hey, you're allowed to speak out against the 610 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 1: things that you know were bullshit while you're in there. 611 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: Because I knew it was a bullshit while I was 612 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: in there, and I couldn't speak out. I didn't know 613 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: I had a community to speak out to or with. 614 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: And we're trying to offer community to them. Um. And 615 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: that's beyond beyond just video games, but that's drone operators 616 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: and infantry guys and and people that are just fed 617 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: up with what they see in a system that is 618 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: supporting a crumbling infrastructure, right, Like, Um, you can only 619 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: deploy so many times without developing either becoming completely dead 620 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: on the inside or having developing some semblance of empathy 621 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: that goes, Hey, deep down, I know something's wrong here, 622 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: and I just don't know how to uh, Like, I 623 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: don't know what that feeling is. Well, that feeling is 624 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: is just empathy for the human condition and not wanting 625 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: to see people traumatized through war. Right, Um, that that 626 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: idea of us going into like even post nine eleven, 627 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: like immediate post nine eleven events early on they had 628 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: they went there with the right, right idea. I want 629 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: to defend my community. I want to be do do 630 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: service right, Like I don't have another option. Yeah, I'm 631 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: an economic drafty, but all in all, I'm really here 632 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: to help defend my people. Yeah, it was, it was. 633 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: It was a genuine thought, Like, it was a genuine idea. Right, people, 634 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: you could very much disagree with, like the intentionality the 635 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,959 Speaker 1: propaganda that like governments were doing to promote the war 636 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: and the unjust reasons for that, but for the for 637 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: the regular people, right, Yeah, it was, it was. It 638 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 1: was genuine feelings that caused that to happen, and overlooking that, 639 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: I think MSS what makes the recruitment to work. You know, 640 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: if if you just look at all the people who 641 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: join the military as being like, oh, they're just like 642 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: bad people who want to kill you know, brown people. 643 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 1: You're like, that's you can think that, but that doesn't 644 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: actually do anything to understand how recruitment actually works. And 645 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: then if you can't do that, then you don't know 646 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: how to actually counter it. Right exactly, if you are 647 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: a veteran and you feel like we do this whole 648 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: thing was bullshit you, and that can be uh an 649 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: incredibly alienating experience. I've been there, because it feels like 650 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: with the amount of veterans we saw the January six events, um, 651 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: all the veterans that you see that get through to 652 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: the right wing side of the culture war, I just 653 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: want to say that we see you. You're not alone, 654 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: you are you are not crazy. I promise you. We 655 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: we are trying to build a community of people like 656 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: that who understand it and promote healing through that community, 657 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: political education through that so that you can create resiliency 658 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: within your community and as well as at least put 659 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of pressure on the military entertainment complex 660 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: and the military recruiting apparatus. Yeah, fuck the military, Fuck 661 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: war war. It's truth all right to you two of 662 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: anything specifically you want to plug, Yes, join our discord. UH. 663 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: You can find if you search the discord, you can 664 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: look up Gamers for Peace and you will see us 665 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: on Twitch. We are Veterans for Peace all one word, 666 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: and we stream several times a week gaming content content 667 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: about um, different alternatives to military service content, breaking down 668 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: propaganda and recruiting efforts, as well as other political education things. 669 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just a random community game night as well. Um, 670 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: actually no, that's not random. Those are on Thursdays. So there, Um, Chris, 671 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 1: should I have did we add anything? I got something? Um? Uh? 672 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: The if if one of the first things you can 673 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: do besides going to discord and checking us out on Twitch. Uh. 674 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: We actually have an online can digital direct action campaign 675 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 1: going on UH that we're pushing to allow content creators 676 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: on Twitch as a platform to be able to opt 677 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: out of military ads UH on their channels. So that 678 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: is our campaign that we currently have ongoing. There's a petition. 679 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: It is uh bit dot lee slash Twitch. Military ad 680 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: opt Out is the u R l they'll take you 681 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: right to the Twitch petition that feedback through Twitch. Uh. 682 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: We're looking to hit a thousand at least a sap 683 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: on that petition, UH to get some get a response 684 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: from Twitch, and then go from there, allowing content creators 685 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: to take ownership of their of the the ads and 686 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: stuff that are on their channels, at least when it 687 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: comes to military recruitment. UH, and then going from there. UH. 688 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: We also uh are doing actions and planning things constantly. 689 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: So beyond lookout, joined the discord all that good stuff. Oh, 690 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: if you need help navigating that, I'm a mod in 691 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: the discord at plantipa she slash today and you'll find me. 692 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: We'll try to put that link for the petition in 693 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: the show notes so people can find out with a 694 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: with a with with an easy click. Awesome. Perfect, All right, Well, 695 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: thank you to you you for joining us. We are it 696 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: could happen here at happened here pod in the places, 697 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: in the places, the places you know, all the places 698 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 1: they're all there. H Well, thank you everyone for listening, 699 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, go play I don't know Mario Kart eight 700 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: or something, you know, something something fun, I don't know. 701 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: I enjoyed you enjoyed the Mario Kart games as a 702 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: as as someone of my age, very very very integral 703 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: to my driving education. So yeah, go play Mario Kart 704 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: date buck War War not another generation. It could happen 705 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: here as a production of cool Zone Media or more 706 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: podcasts in cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone 707 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 708 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 709 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated 710 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks 711 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: for listening.