Speaker 1: Welcome to a brand new week of Tapeds Draft season.
Speaker 1: Bobo schusan longtime radio voice of the New York Jets
Speaker 1: and also a college football broadcaster for years and years
Speaker 1: and years and years at ESPN, so many years to count.
Speaker 1: Greg co cell for even longer than that, for the
Speaker 1: better part of four decades, has been breaking down the
Speaker 1: film the All twenty two for NFL films, not only
Speaker 1: breaking down NFL matchups every week, but also the college
Speaker 1: players to get you set for the draft. And we
Speaker 1: like to crawl behind the game, inside the xs and
Speaker 1: os on tap Heeds and bring you a different kind
Speaker 1: of podcast to get you set for the draft than
Speaker 1: maybe you'll hear elsewhere. This is not the you know,
Speaker 1: the the mock draft podcast. This is more of a
Speaker 1: wide angle lens and I think a realistic look, more
Speaker 1: realistic look at the way NFL teams actually prepare for
Speaker 1: the draft as opposed to the mock draft to see
Speaker 1: all the time on TV. So, you know, Greg, we've
Speaker 1: done some wide receiver work. We have done a lot
Speaker 1: of quarterback work. Later this week we're gonna dive back
Speaker 1: into the quarterbacks in our episode that will drop on Thursday.
Speaker 1: Rich Gangerello, who is the UH now current offensive coordinator
Speaker 1: at Kentucky, but a twenty year college and pro coach,
Speaker 1: most recently the quarterbacks coach for the San Francisco forty Niners.
Speaker 1: He'll join us on Thursday, and we're gonna break the
Speaker 1: quarterbacks down. But I think this week we are planning
Speaker 1: on jumping into the position that I think is the
Speaker 1: most interesting, debatable, you know, at times polarizing position when
Speaker 1: it comes to not only evaluating guys once they're in
Speaker 1: the NFL and what it should pay them and how
Speaker 1: much of a commitment you should make to them, but
Speaker 1: where you should draft them coming out of college, and
Speaker 1: that's running back. Like growing up, I mean, we the
Speaker 1: running back was the glamor position Earl Campbell and Walter
Speaker 1: Payton and Tony Dorset, and entire offenses were just built
Speaker 1: around those guys. That's not the case anymore. Outside of
Speaker 1: Derrick Henry, I don't know that there's an offense in
Speaker 1: the NFL that is purely built around the running back.
Speaker 1: So how hard is it from a draft standpoint to
Speaker 1: properly value the running back When you see these stars
Speaker 1: in college and you want to project them to the NFL. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think, Bob, it's as much about the traits
Speaker 1: of backs. There's good backs every year, and there's good
Speaker 1: backs in this draft. I think it's really a thirty
Speaker 1: thousand foot macro question. What kind of resources do you
Speaker 1: allocate to the position? That's number one? Number two becomes
Speaker 1: how do you structure an offense in today's NFL? So
Speaker 1: that determines what the value of a back is to you?
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, look at a team like the San
Speaker 1: Francisco forty Niners, David, they start with the run game
Speaker 1: as a foundation. Now they've shown, just Kyle Shanahan has shown,
Speaker 1: just as his dad, Mike Shanahan showed that it wasn't
Speaker 1: specific to one back, but it was specific to a system.
Speaker 1: So they've had success with a lot of different running backs.
Speaker 1: This past year, they had success with Elijah Mitchell, who
Speaker 1: was a sixth round pick out of Louisiana. So they
Speaker 1: didn't allocate a lot of resources to the position, but
Speaker 1: yet they were able to run the ball exceptionally well
Speaker 1: because they believe in the run game as a foundation,
Speaker 1: which raises the next question, should the run game be
Speaker 1: a foundation in today's NFL? When all coaches talk about
Speaker 1: is explosive plays and presentage wise, you're far more likely
Speaker 1: to get explosive plays in the past game than in
Speaker 1: the run game. The next question is every game you
Speaker 1: pretty much have to run the ball at some point
Speaker 1: in the game. So if you can't do that often
Speaker 1: you can lose games because of an inability to run
Speaker 1: the ball. And I don't want to put any blame
Speaker 1: on the Cincinnati Bengals coaching staff, but obviously in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl they continue to throw the ball with a
Speaker 1: lead in the third and fourth quarter, and they were
Speaker 1: six quarterback sacks in the second half of that game,
Speaker 1: and at some point many might have thought that, hey,
Speaker 1: now is the time, let's run the ball. And they
Speaker 1: did not have a bad running game at all. But
Speaker 1: the running game is the kind of thing that people
Speaker 1: say you don't need until you need it, And you
Speaker 1: can't just snap your fingers. It's not a water faucet
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, now we're gonna run the ball. That's
Speaker 1: something that has to be practiced. I've had conversations with
Speaker 1: a lot of coaches who will actually say that teaching
Speaker 1: and coaching the run game with all the detail and
Speaker 1: nuance that is involved can sometimes be tougher than teaching
Speaker 1: the past game. So unless you spend time in practice
Speaker 1: with the run game, then it doesn't just happen when
Speaker 1: you need it in given games. And of course this
Speaker 1: brings us then back to when do you draft running backs?
Speaker 1: Because there are good backs in this draft. There's so
Speaker 1: many branches to this tree, right, Like you mentioned the
Speaker 1: San Francisco forty. Yeah. Um, Like they took a big, powerful,
Speaker 1: borderline tight end sized wide receiver in Deebo Samuel and
Speaker 1: they're like, you know what, We'll give you the ball
Speaker 1: out of the backfield four or five six times a game.
Speaker 1: At times, we'll make you a pseudo running back and
Speaker 1: line you up all over the field. Cor Darryl Patterson
Speaker 1: is another player that all of a sudden he's wearing
Speaker 1: you know, a number that begins with eight, and he's
Speaker 1: in the backfield sometimes just taking a standard out of
Speaker 1: the shotgun running back play. Um. Also, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of teams now look at the screen game. Um
Speaker 1: just you know, even going five wide and having their
Speaker 1: running back as a part of an empty set. Let's
Speaker 1: just throw him a little quick slant. That's almost a
Speaker 1: pseudo running game now in the NFL, right, just a
Speaker 1: high percentage passed to a running back, which means when
Speaker 1: you're evaluating all of these guys for any NFL offense,
Speaker 1: you have to wonder how well they can catch. Like
Speaker 1: Earl Campbell was never lining up in the slot, Christian
Speaker 1: Nakoya was never running a slant right like. It's just
Speaker 1: just not what was done with running backs back in
Speaker 1: the day. So all of that, I would assume has
Speaker 1: to be a part of the evaluation process. How much
Speaker 1: do we need a running back? How many guys on
Speaker 1: our team that don't you don't even necessarily think of
Speaker 1: as being a running back can act in that role?
Speaker 1: Does our offense ask a running back to possibly catch
Speaker 1: the ball six seven, eight times a game? I mean,
Speaker 1: and obviously, if you're a fantasy football player, the running
Speaker 1: backs to catch the ball the most. You know, Christian McCaffrey,
Speaker 1: those are the guys that every fantasy football because Christian
Speaker 1: McCaffrey catches it sometimes as much as he runs it.
Speaker 1: So when you're evaluating all of these college players, you
Speaker 1: know how big of a how many different slices are there?
Speaker 1: Now to the pie chart for an NFL evaluation for
Speaker 1: a running backs opposed to way back in the day
Speaker 1: where it was just can the guy run off tackle
Speaker 1: left or off tackle right? And once in a while
Speaker 1: break want and go the distance. Yeah, And you make
Speaker 1: a great point. There's so many different elements and there's
Speaker 1: not one correct answer. I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: I believe that the run game is not really that
Speaker 1: relevant that it's it's the NFL is about the passing game,
Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody would argue that as a
Speaker 1: general statement that you have to be able to throw
Speaker 1: the ball, uh, in order to to play good offensive
Speaker 1: football week to week and to get to wherever it
Speaker 1: is you want to go. But we've also seen the
Speaker 1: San Francisco forty nine ers two years three years ago
Speaker 1: get to the Super Bowl and lose in a in
Speaker 1: a game they probably should have won. This year get
Speaker 1: to the NFC Championship Game, um and in a game
Speaker 1: they probably should have won as well. So there's many
Speaker 1: ways to play offensive football, and there's many ways to
Speaker 1: create explosive plays in the past game. But I will
Speaker 1: say this, I think that at some point in the
Speaker 1: NFL a couple of points. Number one, you do have
Speaker 1: to run the ball, But number two, your past game
Speaker 1: can't work solely off your run game. One thing I
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to learn from Bill Walsh, because I
Speaker 1: was very fortunate and grateful to spend a good amount
Speaker 1: of time with him years ago, is that your running
Speaker 1: game and your passing game must in any given game
Speaker 1: be able to work independently from one another if they're
Speaker 1: dependent on one another for their success. In other words,
Speaker 1: the only way your pass game can really be effective
Speaker 1: is working off run game principles. You're going to get
Speaker 1: to games where you need to drop back pass game
Speaker 1: and you're going to struggle. Interesting, Yeah, you're right, I
Speaker 1: mean being and also it allows you to be one
Speaker 1: dimensional when it's necessary and still win. Correct. We always
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, if you can make a team
Speaker 1: one dimensional, that's the best way to beat them. That's
Speaker 1: a really interesting way to look at it. I think
Speaker 1: something else that really has to enter into the minds
Speaker 1: of evaluators but also how they weigh the running backs
Speaker 1: and where they want to put them on the board
Speaker 1: is it's a very unique position in terms of lifespan,
Speaker 1: in terms of how much money you have to pay
Speaker 1: one of these guys once he gets if he's a
Speaker 1: first round pick and he gets to his fourth and
Speaker 1: fifth year, right, Like, no one ever could have imagined,
Speaker 1: say Kwon Barkley being anything other than a star and
Speaker 1: out just because he has been on a bad team
Speaker 1: and he's been banged up the second pick in the draft.
Speaker 1: There's a legit debate as to whether or not by
Speaker 1: the time he gets to year five the Giants should
Speaker 1: pay him, and and how many more years past year
Speaker 1: five will even have I've actually said in the past,
Speaker 1: I think the NFL Players Association should be obviously the
Speaker 1: union that represents the players. I think there should be
Speaker 1: an NFL running Backs Association. There should there should be
Speaker 1: a separate collective bargaining agreement for running backs where they
Speaker 1: should become free agents after year three, right, because all
Speaker 1: these other positions you could play six, seven, ten, twelve, fifteen.
Speaker 1: I mean, Tom Brady might play thirty years in the
Speaker 1: NFL by the time he finally officially retires. These running backs, man,
Speaker 1: they get to their second contract and already teams are like,
Speaker 1: I just don't know, Like I don't know if we
Speaker 1: want to give this guy much of a financial commitment,
Speaker 1: you'll get the odds Zeke Elliott that really will break
Speaker 1: the bank. But a lot of these guys have a
Speaker 1: lot of tread off the tire by the time they
Speaker 1: get five and six years into the league, even if
Speaker 1: they're really good. So you know the fact that teams
Speaker 1: can find running backs in the third and fourth round,
Speaker 1: the fact that there's you know, injury questions with these guys.
Speaker 1: They get hit in a way that other positions don't
Speaker 1: get hit. They're smaller and getting hit. I mean all
Speaker 1: of those things, Like how do NFL teams weigh all
Speaker 1: of that when they're thinking about where the draft. One well,
Speaker 1: one quick point is and I think there'll be a
Speaker 1: litmus test team this year in the NFL that will
Speaker 1: really tell us a lot. And that's the Pittsburgh Steelers
Speaker 1: who just signed Mitchell Trubisky is their quarterback. And we
Speaker 1: all know what kind of quarterback Mitchell Trubisky is. He
Speaker 1: needs a run game to be valuable and effective. And
Speaker 1: they have a back in Nigie Harris who's two thirty
Speaker 1: pounds looks like a Donas carry the ball over three
Speaker 1: hundred times as a rookie um struggle to average four
Speaker 1: yards to carry. You can you can debate why that's
Speaker 1: the case, but is Nigie Harris in this particular offense
Speaker 1: with a quarterback that needs a run game and that
Speaker 1: you don't want to ask him to drop back times
Speaker 1: the game by choice? Where will Nigi Harris be in
Speaker 1: a year or two, no matter how big and strong
Speaker 1: and powerful he is? How many years can have back
Speaker 1: carry three plus times in today's NFL? Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you think about the guys in
Speaker 1: this draft as well, how many guys fit that body
Speaker 1: type or how many of the guys that are in
Speaker 1: this current crop of running backs are guys that you
Speaker 1: might think of us what's become more the prototypical NFL
Speaker 1: running back? Because when we come back, we're gonna talk players.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk who Greg has seen, what the tape says.
Speaker 1: Who are the guys that Gregg values a bit more
Speaker 1: in this draft than maybe you're seeing elsewhere. Find that
Speaker 1: out next when we come back tape Heads Draft season.
Speaker 1: We are back on tape Heads Draft season, Bobo shoosing
Speaker 1: Greg Cosll and we're gonna get right now to where
Speaker 1: Gregg co Sell eats, and that is breaking down these players.
Speaker 1: So we're doing running backs, Greg, Let's start to get
Speaker 1: to each guy kind of one by one, give us
Speaker 1: a little thumbnail sketch starting with Bruce Hall of Iowa State. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and for people that know me, Bob, I'm not
Speaker 1: a big list guy because I think so many players
Speaker 1: are different and it's hard to do that. But I
Speaker 1: would say that briefs. Hall to me, if I had
Speaker 1: to make a list, would be my number one running
Speaker 1: back in this draft class. I think he's the total package. Um.
Speaker 1: I think because he's carried the ball a lot, he
Speaker 1: has extensive experience in both zone and gap scheme concepts.
Speaker 1: I think he's got a high level combination of patience
Speaker 1: and decisiveness. He's very smooth, he's fluid. He's got a
Speaker 1: gliding feel to his running. There's a sense of pace
Speaker 1: and tempo to him, as if he has an innate
Speaker 1: feel for both his blocking schemes and for the defensive flow.
Speaker 1: Because one thing people have to remember, you know, everybody
Speaker 1: talks on defense about gaps, but offensive backs, running backs
Speaker 1: have to understand gaps what they are before the snap,
Speaker 1: they change after the snap. I think Hall has a
Speaker 1: very good feel for gap fluidity, and he rarely ever
Speaker 1: looked hurried. He ran with a rhythmic feel that at
Speaker 1: times almost made an appeal appear that it was choreographed.
Speaker 1: And another key fact to his game. He can catch
Speaker 1: the ball well, and I think that he can be
Speaker 1: a three down back in the NFL with his soft
Speaker 1: hands run after catch. I think you can see him
Speaker 1: running a more multiple route tree in the NFL as well.
Speaker 1: You can see him running angle routes, wheel routes, even
Speaker 1: what we call eight seam where he's all set in
Speaker 1: the backfield and runs a seam route. So, to me,
Speaker 1: Bruce Hall is the top back in this class, first
Speaker 1: round pick. And if in the first round, what do
Speaker 1: you think, I mean, where where would you kind of
Speaker 1: put them generally speaking on a board? Um, I mean
Speaker 1: I think if you're making a draft board and I
Speaker 1: haven't seen every player, so you know, that's hard for
Speaker 1: me to answer. Um, I think he'd probably be a
Speaker 1: top thirty two player in this draft. Whether that means
Speaker 1: that he gets drafted in the first round. Uh, that's
Speaker 1: that larger discussion that we just had about the value
Speaker 1: of BacT and that becomes team specific, scheme specific, how
Speaker 1: you see him in the context of all of those things. So, uh,
Speaker 1: is he one of the thirty two best players? I
Speaker 1: would argue, yes, that by no means suggests that he
Speaker 1: will be a first round draft choice. Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: shows how the game is evolved in the position is evolved, right,
Speaker 1: because this isn't even thought to be a quarterback rich
Speaker 1: quarterback deep draft, which would normally allow the other positions
Speaker 1: to bump up in value, and yet the top rated
Speaker 1: running back potentially in this draft a question mark as
Speaker 1: to whether or not he's going to go in the
Speaker 1: first round, and even how high in the second round.
Speaker 1: So how about Michigan State's uh Kenny Kenneth Walker. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was a guy that kind of burst onto the
Speaker 1: scene late in the year. Not someone that was in
Speaker 1: the Heisman conversation to start off the season, but that
Speaker 1: was very much in the Heisman conversation at the end
Speaker 1: of the season. A really fun guy to watch. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw him much this year. Um,
Speaker 1: he's compact, he's loaded the ground, He's piston like feet
Speaker 1: that seemingly never stop moving. He's got outstanding lateral quickness
Speaker 1: and suddenness. He makes sharp, decisive cuts. He's got really
Speaker 1: good contact balance. Um, he's very competitive, He's tenacious as
Speaker 1: a runner. He will lower his pads and he will
Speaker 1: attack defenders, and he will finish runs with anger. And
Speaker 1: there's a run to daylight feel to the to the
Speaker 1: way he he runs. I mean, it's almost as if
Speaker 1: he's a bit of a jazz musician, Bob. He's looking
Speaker 1: for space, He's looking for that next notes as it were.
Speaker 1: You know, he certainly can stay on track, but he
Speaker 1: definitely is looking to find daylight. He's got a free
Speaker 1: flowing sense of of running. Um. He's very improvisational. He
Speaker 1: can work off script um. The big question with him,
Speaker 1: and again it comes back to the same point about
Speaker 1: the value of bacts is what can he give you
Speaker 1: in the passing game. And I think right now that's
Speaker 1: an open question. The tape does not see just that
Speaker 1: he can be a a factor at at as a
Speaker 1: receiver at the next level. Maybe he can. That's what
Speaker 1: pro days are for, that's what individual workouts are for.
Speaker 1: But the tape doesn't show that. Another guy that is
Speaker 1: probably more of what is now becoming the prototypical NFL
Speaker 1: running back Isaiah Spiller from Texas A and m right,
Speaker 1: smaller guy, but certainly can catch and that system had
Speaker 1: to catch the ball. So what do you think about Spiller. YEA,
Speaker 1: Spiller is actually a a almost in some ways a
Speaker 1: little old school because he is big and he's powerful, um,
Speaker 1: and he runs really hard inside. Um he's got If
Speaker 1: you're thinking old school, I mean you would talked earlier
Speaker 1: about facts, you know, twenty thirty years ago, like the
Speaker 1: George Rodgers types, Orge Drivers being a first round draft
Speaker 1: choice what I think nten eighty giver take coming out
Speaker 1: of South Carolina. I mean Spiller is in some ways
Speaker 1: like that. He's six feet, he's two hundred seventeen pounds,
Speaker 1: he has a fee Tacher foundation, volume, back, traits profile,
Speaker 1: He's got the size, he's got a compact build, he's
Speaker 1: got patience, he's got vision, he's got short area burst,
Speaker 1: he has enough lateral quickness, and he works really effectively
Speaker 1: in confined space, which is absolutely critical in the NFL.
Speaker 1: He's got natural power, he's got contact balance, he's physical,
Speaker 1: he can finish runs. He's an attitude runner. He's that
Speaker 1: that foundation type back that you feel good if you
Speaker 1: want to start your offense this way giving him the ball,
Speaker 1: you know, seventeen to twenty two times a game. So
Speaker 1: it returns to our basic question, how many teams want
Speaker 1: to play offense that way in today's NFL because Isaiah
Speaker 1: Spiller can fill that role. James Cook from Georgia. Obviously
Speaker 1: it's in the gene pool, right. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: when if you grow up eating at the same table
Speaker 1: as Dalvin, then obviously there's something about whatever they were
Speaker 1: feeding those guys to turn them into NFL running back.
Speaker 1: So how about James Cook. James Cook to me is
Speaker 1: in some ways what the NFL has become. You know,
Speaker 1: people listening to this, I don't want them to fall
Speaker 1: off their their seat if they're sitting down, because I'm
Speaker 1: going to compare him to someone He's not quite the
Speaker 1: same level of player, and he's much smaller, but he
Speaker 1: can be used the same way in the NFL, and
Speaker 1: that's Alvin Kamara. I mean, Camara is a much bigger man,
Speaker 1: and he's kind of evolved into a little bit of
Speaker 1: a feature back. But in many ways, James Cook brings
Speaker 1: a similar running receiving profile to an offense. Just ask
Speaker 1: Nick Saban. Cook lined up split out against Alabama and
Speaker 1: then these past years and made big plays called a
Speaker 1: long touchdown split out two years ago. He is a
Speaker 1: really really good receiver and you can use him offset
Speaker 1: in the backfield as a receiver, you can detach him
Speaker 1: from the formation. Um. He lacks the size to be
Speaker 1: a volume runner, but he possesses almost all of the
Speaker 1: skills to be a really productive runner. In fact, he
Speaker 1: runs very much like his older brother Dalvin Cook. He
Speaker 1: looks the same, He's just a smaller man. But I
Speaker 1: think James Cook is one of those players that I
Speaker 1: would not surprise me to see him jump some other
Speaker 1: backs who we might think have better overall traits because
Speaker 1: they're bigger. But he fits today's NFL if you're looking
Speaker 1: for that back that can both run the ball as
Speaker 1: an eye back but also be a receiver split from
Speaker 1: the formation, which more and more teams do now in
Speaker 1: the NFL. Tyler Algier from b y U, what do
Speaker 1: you think about him? Yeah, He's He's a really interesting back.
Speaker 1: To me, I think he's more of the quote unquote
Speaker 1: feature back type, and I'm very curious to see if
Speaker 1: teams see him that way, because he does have a
Speaker 1: lot of really good traits and he's the kind of
Speaker 1: guy that grew on me the more I watched him.
Speaker 1: He's two four pounds, Um, he's got a subtle nuanced
Speaker 1: feel for the zone run team. He predominantly ran the
Speaker 1: zone run game at b y U. He's patient, he's disciplined,
Speaker 1: he's efficient, he's got good vision. Um, he's got an
Speaker 1: intuitive feel for the pace and tempo of runs. He
Speaker 1: stays on his path, he he presses the whole, he
Speaker 1: leverages defenders. He's a really good back. Um. He kind
Speaker 1: of reminded me of two backs that I that I watched,
Speaker 1: and neither one well one of them did have a
Speaker 1: featureback success early in his career, Jordan Howard. I kind
Speaker 1: of thought of Jordan Howard watching Tyler als year. And
Speaker 1: the other back that came to mind was Alexander Madison,
Speaker 1: who's the backup to Dalvin Cook. And he came out
Speaker 1: of Boise State and the Vikings drafted him in the
Speaker 1: third round. And I kind of see Algier that way.
Speaker 1: I don't believe he'll end up being a feature back
Speaker 1: in the league, but he will play in the league
Speaker 1: for sure. And one of them got to talk about
Speaker 1: in this segment, Arizona States for shod White. Ah. So
Speaker 1: he's another guy that I think if he becomes an
Speaker 1: excellent and NFL player because he has really good receiving traits,
Speaker 1: and he's big two, he's over six ft, he's two
Speaker 1: d fourteen pounds UM. He needs working past protection, but
Speaker 1: he's an excellent receiver, Bob, and he's a He's a
Speaker 1: good runner as well, but I think his receiving ability
Speaker 1: will separate him. He's got the versatility to detach from
Speaker 1: the formation. He has excellent hands. He can be featured
Speaker 1: on multiple route concepts, including intermedia and vertical routes, and
Speaker 1: that's really important. So White, to me, could be another
Speaker 1: one of those backs that moves up in the draft
Speaker 1: because of the receiving element to his game. He's really
Speaker 1: good at it, and you know he's got wide receiver
Speaker 1: traits in many ways. So Cook and White, James Cooking
Speaker 1: a shot, White are the two guys are the ones
Speaker 1: we've mentioned up to this point that are really strong receivers,
Speaker 1: and I think that that could really impact where they
Speaker 1: get drafted. Yeah, and today's NFL, the ability for running
Speaker 1: back to catch the ball has never been more important,
Speaker 1: and you see that in how teams put their offenses together.
Speaker 1: Want you to send us your thoughts on these players.
Speaker 1: A lot of information in a short period of time.
Speaker 1: If you think Greg's done with the running backs, Think again,
Speaker 1: he's just getting started. We're gonna keep it coming with
Speaker 1: another group of running back prospects. See what the tape says,
Speaker 1: and then we'll take kind of before we say goodbye
Speaker 1: for this episode, a wide angle look at how deep
Speaker 1: and talented this class is and if your team is
Speaker 1: a running back needy team, where you might find value.
Speaker 1: All of that is coming up on tapeds Draft Season.
Speaker 1: Back on this running backs edition of tapeds Draft Season,
Speaker 1: Bobo Shoes and Greg Costell running through a lot of
Speaker 1: the top running back prospects and the guys that Greg
Speaker 1: thinks might be the most interesting fit for NFL teams.
Speaker 1: And you know there's an Alabama transfer that played at Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: I had their games a couple of times this year,
Speaker 1: and their offense looked because there was times where he
Speaker 1: was banged up, and as good as the quarterback was,
Speaker 1: as good as their receivers were, their offense just look
Speaker 1: different when Jerome Ford was healthy and on the field. Greg,
Speaker 1: what do you think about Jerome Ford from Cincinnati. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a player that to be honest with you, I
Speaker 1: knew he was an Alabama transfer, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: much about him the year prior, in two thousand and twenty,
Speaker 1: he was not really a feature back for them, so
Speaker 1: he was somewhat virgin territory for me. Bob and I
Speaker 1: really liked his tape. Um. I think he's got a
Speaker 1: really good mix of size and traits. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: compactly built. He's got a sturdy frame. Um, he's got
Speaker 1: natural quickness and burst. He's got natural power. He's got
Speaker 1: a really strong lower half. He can run through contact,
Speaker 1: he can finish runs. I thought he's a very disciplined runner,
Speaker 1: doesn't waste any emotion, and he can take it to
Speaker 1: the house. I mean he can re accelerate, he can
Speaker 1: get to the second level cleanly. Um, he's got very
Speaker 1: tight footwork, very compact in the way he runs, and
Speaker 1: you know we see that. Uh. While he was not
Speaker 1: featured in their passing game, I think that's there. He
Speaker 1: didn't make some catches on wheel routes, really good sign.
Speaker 1: But this kid has explosive vertical ability. Um, plays fast
Speaker 1: and his physical I really like Jerome Ford transitioning to
Speaker 1: the NFL. Let's go to Alabama then, I mean that
Speaker 1: was where Jerome Ford once was, but that's where Brian
Speaker 1: Robinson most recently was so, how about Brian Robinson? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he got his chance this year, and I actually watched
Speaker 1: all his runs from twenty as well, and a good
Speaker 1: number from one. Um. He's an urgent, determined, physical, competitive
Speaker 1: downhill runner. He runs with velocity, he runs with power,
Speaker 1: he gains hard yards, but there's also kind of a
Speaker 1: looseness to his running. His feet are kind of light
Speaker 1: and active. You wouldn't say he's purely shifty and elusive.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's a little straight line ish, but there were
Speaker 1: runs in which he did feature lateral quickness and agility.
Speaker 1: He has sort of that stop and start re acceleration ability. UM.
Speaker 1: I came away from his tape this year seeing a
Speaker 1: kind of a looser hipped runner with more efficient change
Speaker 1: of direction, a more fluid feel. I kind of like
Speaker 1: him as an NFL back. He has feature back size
Speaker 1: and traits. He's two pounds he doesn't really look at
Speaker 1: when you watch him, but he's almost six to Bob
Speaker 1: and that's really really good size. Alright. Karen Williams notre Dame. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Kiren Williams is a guy that there's really only in
Speaker 1: my view, two ways to see him. He's got good traits.
Speaker 1: He's a very refined runner. He's a professional runner. He's
Speaker 1: patient yet decisive. UM he knows how to run. He's
Speaker 1: not explosive. He doesn't have a lot of juice. So
Speaker 1: to me, Kirra and Williams, because he's an excellent receiver
Speaker 1: and he ran multiple route concepts and he was split
Speaker 1: from the formation. I could see him in two ways.
Speaker 1: He could go to a team where the running back
Speaker 1: does not carry a ton and be a quote unquote
Speaker 1: number one back in the way that Austin Ekeler is
Speaker 1: a number one back for the Chargers. He's not going
Speaker 1: to carry two hundred fifty two hundred seventy times. Or
Speaker 1: I could see him as a James White type back
Speaker 1: the way James White is used with the New England Patriots,
Speaker 1: where he's used primarily as a receiver once in a
Speaker 1: while carrying the ball. Um. Don't forget James White when
Speaker 1: he was in college was a one thousand yard Russia
Speaker 1: at Wisconsin. So White then made that transition in the
Speaker 1: NFL to a back because he's a really good receiver
Speaker 1: and a really good blocker. I think Kirraen Williams probably
Speaker 1: falls more into that category. Damie appears from Florida. He's
Speaker 1: an interesting player, Yeah, because Damian Piercy. He's a professional
Speaker 1: runner when it comes to approach and execution. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think despite waiting two eighteen pounds, my guess
Speaker 1: is he'll be seen more as a committee back or
Speaker 1: a number two back. He doesn't have a ton of
Speaker 1: lateral agility and quickness, and he doesn't have a ton
Speaker 1: of burst, but he's compact, he's loaded the ground. He's
Speaker 1: a very measured, methodical, discipline runner. He's got what we
Speaker 1: call sustaining traits. He's got an innate understanding of defensive fronts.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier gap fluidity as a great feel for that.
Speaker 1: He also has a natural feel for the demanded pace
Speaker 1: and tempo of specific runs. He's got great play strength
Speaker 1: and contact balance. I mean, this kid fourth through tackles
Speaker 1: and he did not go down easy. He got hard yards.
Speaker 1: Those are two traits that are always in demand in
Speaker 1: the NFL. UM he's an attitude runner, and every coach
Speaker 1: and every team likes attitude runners. Um. There's much more
Speaker 1: to get from Pierces to the receiver as well, and
Speaker 1: that will enhance his value as you project and transition
Speaker 1: him to the league. He's super intriguing to me, Bob,
Speaker 1: because just stylistically the way he runs, he could be
Speaker 1: seen as a guy that could get a hundred seventy carries.
Speaker 1: It would not surprise me if some teams see him
Speaker 1: that way. Alright, we we've touched on a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: We even back in the previous segments said Breece Hall
Speaker 1: is probably the best overall prospect in this class, and
Speaker 1: yet you don't think that he is a slam dunk
Speaker 1: first rounder, which speaks also to how the NFL has
Speaker 1: changed the value that is put on running backs. But
Speaker 1: just kind of wide angle lens this class as a whole.
Speaker 1: If my team needs a running back, how talented and
Speaker 1: deep do you think this class is as a whole?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna get a good player on my team
Speaker 1: if I take one of these guys, even as high
Speaker 1: as the second round. Absolutely, I think it's a pretty
Speaker 1: deep class. I think it just speaks to what we've
Speaker 1: been saying that teams don't see the running back position
Speaker 1: as needing to allocate major capital, either draft capital or
Speaker 1: even you know, trade capital or free agent capital. But
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of good running backs In
Speaker 1: this draft, a lot of running backs will be talking
Speaker 1: about and again it comes back to our initial premise,
Speaker 1: what is the value of the running back in today's NFL?
Speaker 1: Can't do Teams feel that, Hey, if they're not going
Speaker 1: to be a run first team, so they look at
Speaker 1: Damian Pierce, who may well be available in the third round.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I'm That's one thing I'm not
Speaker 1: good at, Bob, and I'll be the first to admit it.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at knowing where guys are going to
Speaker 1: get drafted. Um, but you know, can they look at
Speaker 1: someone like Damian Pierce and say, hey, we can get
Speaker 1: this guy in you know, the third round and we'll
Speaker 1: be fine. I mean, look at New England. The New
Speaker 1: England Patriots this year were run first football team. Okay,
Speaker 1: who were there? Backs? Damian Harris a third round pick
Speaker 1: out of Alabama a few years ago, and reminders Stevenson,
Speaker 1: I believe, a fourth round pick out of Oklahoma this year.
Speaker 1: So there's a template in place for a lot of
Speaker 1: teams in the league where they want to run the
Speaker 1: ball like New England did with a rookie quarterback, and
Speaker 1: they ran it really effectively. Think they were in the
Speaker 1: top ten in the league in both attempts and yards,
Speaker 1: and yet they did not have a first or second
Speaker 1: round pick as one of their backs. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of templates in place. We've mentioned the forty nine ers.
Speaker 1: You know, last year everybody mentioned Jacksonville with James Robinson
Speaker 1: gaining a thousand yards as if I'm not mistaken, was
Speaker 1: a free agent. Um, So there's there's profiles in place
Speaker 1: of teams that have not drafted backs high and yet
Speaker 1: has still managed to have quality, consistent run games on
Speaker 1: a week to week basis. Then, with that being said,
Speaker 1: if you were running an NFL draft room, right, if
Speaker 1: you were a general manager and you it was your
Speaker 1: job to make these decisions, would you have I don't
Speaker 1: want to say a blanket rule, but at the very
Speaker 1: least like a general policy for your scouts. Because we're
Speaker 1: not drafting or running back before the third round. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense. If you think there is a
Speaker 1: transform should old guy out there that maybe folks are
Speaker 1: undervaluing that is worthy of a second round pick, bring
Speaker 1: him to me and we'll certainly talk it over. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be as open mind. It is an about I
Speaker 1: mean you know, you don't close the door to anything,
Speaker 1: but just as a general rule, I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk running back until the third or fourth round. Is
Speaker 1: it even necessary or is there a guy maybe in
Speaker 1: this class that might violate that principle that you think
Speaker 1: is worthy of a second round pick or a high
Speaker 1: third round pick. Where maybe teams just generally speaking as
Speaker 1: a principle, or like, look, we can get running backs
Speaker 1: later in the draft, free agency. There's a variety of
Speaker 1: ways to get a got to play that position without
Speaker 1: having to spend high end draft capital to get him. Well,
Speaker 1: then I think what you need to do and I
Speaker 1: say this honestly, and this is what teams do you
Speaker 1: need to evaluate? Why good running teams are good running teams?
Speaker 1: Are they good running teams because they have it back?
Speaker 1: In other words, could anybody do what Derrick Henry does?
Speaker 1: I think the argument would probably be in that case, no,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you say that Derrick Henry is probably a different
Speaker 1: cat than most um? Could anybody run for the forty niners?
Speaker 1: The argument would be seemingly yes, you could put a
Speaker 1: lot of backs back there. Why is that the case?
Speaker 1: You would have to do a deep dive into the
Speaker 1: structure and concepts and approach of that offense to figure
Speaker 1: that out because you know, look, a lot of teams
Speaker 1: run the same concepts, Bob, There's not a thousand run
Speaker 1: game concepts. As you know. It's how you get to
Speaker 1: the run game, how you teach it, how you coach it,
Speaker 1: how you deploy it. So a team like the Niners,
Speaker 1: if you feel that running backs, if you decide, as
Speaker 1: a general rule, well I'm not taking a running back
Speaker 1: in the first two rounds. But yet you know at
Speaker 1: some point you're gonna have to run the ball because
Speaker 1: every team has to run the ball somewhere along the line.
Speaker 1: Then you better have a way of running the ball.
Speaker 1: So you have to know how you can do that effectively.
Speaker 1: It does it become a function of oh line, does
Speaker 1: to become a function of scheme, does to become a
Speaker 1: function of back? You have to have an answer for
Speaker 1: that before you do just what you said, before you
Speaker 1: decide that either we are or we're not looking at
Speaker 1: a running back as a higher level draft choice. See.
Speaker 1: We hope people get, if nothing else out of this podcast,
Speaker 1: the realization that that is the conversation that's going on
Speaker 1: in a draft room. That's the conversation that a general
Speaker 1: manager is having with the scouting department. Not hey guys,
Speaker 1: as if it's fantasy football, let's wrap three hundred players
Speaker 1: and just pick them off of a list. Right Like,
Speaker 1: there is a total philosophical conversation happening behind closed doors
Speaker 1: about how do we want to put our team together?
Speaker 1: What kind of a team do we have, what is
Speaker 1: our offensive system, what are our quarterback strengths, what kind
Speaker 1: of an offensive line do we have, How does a
Speaker 1: running back fit into all of that? And how much
Speaker 1: money do we have to spend? Right Like, we go
Speaker 1: out and spend money on the free agent market and
Speaker 1: get one as opposed to having to draft one. You
Speaker 1: know this, People see the mock drafts and they see,
Speaker 1: you know, Breeze Hall's name up there, and your team
Speaker 1: might need a quarterback with the what a thirty four pick,
Speaker 1: and they don't take them, and people kind of throw
Speaker 1: their arms up like, oh my god, we passed on
Speaker 1: such a talented player. Well wait a minute, you know
Speaker 1: that's not the conversation that's happening behind closed doors with
Speaker 1: your team. They're not just sitting there going Bruce Hall
Speaker 1: is good. People think he's the thirty fourth best player.
Speaker 1: We've got the thirty four pick, let's take him. Right.
Speaker 1: It's a much deeper philosophical conversation happening with all positions,
Speaker 1: not just running back when you're gonna draft a player, right, No,
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. And and these are the conversations that
Speaker 1: are had, and they have to be had because ultimately,
Speaker 1: I come back to to the point that I've made
Speaker 1: a few times. Every team has to run the ball
Speaker 1: somewhere along the line. That's a given. The question is
Speaker 1: how when look bottom line, every team would like a
Speaker 1: a higher rated runner than a lesser rated runner. That's
Speaker 1: why you draft, That's why teams do boards. Is if
Speaker 1: Breese Hall is rated higher, then let's say Snoop Connor
Speaker 1: from All Miss we didn't talk about him, but he's
Speaker 1: going to be rated higher on people's draft boards. So
Speaker 1: would you rather have Breese Hall? Yes, but you're not
Speaker 1: looking at those two players in a vacuum, right, yep.
Speaker 1: And it is a fascinating, you know way, I think
Speaker 1: hopefully for people to understand how the draft boards are
Speaker 1: actually put together by the guys that make the picks.
Speaker 1: It's totally different than maybe what you're reading you know,
Speaker 1: on websites or mock drafts um when teams you know,
Speaker 1: kind of or when when you know, the mock draft
Speaker 1: guys come up with their own boards. And coming up
Speaker 1: on Thursday, we've got a coach who has spent over
Speaker 1: twenty years at the NFL and college level evaluating teams
Speaker 1: and players. Rich Ganzarella, the current offensive coordinator for Kentucky,
Speaker 1: will tell us what to look for and how things
Speaker 1: have changed jumping from college football to the nf FELL,
Speaker 1: particularly for quarterbacks because obviously that's the world he lives in.
Speaker 1: He was the quarterbacks coach for the forty Niners, now
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator for Kentucky. He's got a pretty good
Speaker 1: one with the Wildcats. We will touch on that with
Speaker 1: Rich coming up on Thursday as well. Hope to have
Speaker 1: you again on Thursday when our next episode drops. Thank
Speaker 1: you for being a part of Tape Heads Draft Season.