Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, the podcast in which we talk
Speaker 1: with some of the brightest minds working in media today.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. While the pandemic has made
Speaker 1: making movies and TV shows pretty difficult, a set of
Speaker 1: innovations known as virtual production has enabled many shoots to
Speaker 1: continue even when the actors are in a different location
Speaker 1: than the director. And a big part of who's keeping
Speaker 1: Hollywood at the cutting edge is actually a gaming company,
Speaker 1: creator of the global phenomenon Fortnite. Joining me today from
Speaker 1: Epic Games. From business development for film and television is
Speaker 1: Miles Perkins and the head of its l A lab,
Speaker 1: Connie Kennedy. It's all coming up today on this episode
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business. Welcome back to Strictly Business, where my
Speaker 1: guests are Miles Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk in a bit about Epics Unreal Engine,
Speaker 1: the software that is the secret sauce powering a lot
Speaker 1: of the virtual production that has been put to use
Speaker 1: for TV shows like HBO's Westworld, His Dark Materials and
Speaker 1: the film John Wick three. But before we get to
Speaker 1: Unreal I want my guests to help me break down
Speaker 1: for the listeners and as jargon free a manner as possible,
Speaker 1: just what virtual production is, because as I've studied it,
Speaker 1: it's it's not any one thing, and it has many
Speaker 1: implications for transforming the traditional production process. So Miles get
Speaker 1: us started. Can you sort of lay out a uh
Speaker 1: an idea of what virtual production is? Sore? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that the techniques that have been behind virtual production
Speaker 1: have been around for a long time. Whether we're talking
Speaker 1: about pre viz um, animal attics, UM, we have some
Speaker 1: pitch biz kind of things, all of these things where
Speaker 1: how do you visualize how do you very quickly get
Speaker 1: to a visualization of an idea, but you kind of
Speaker 1: start to fast forward. And what what essentially happened is
Speaker 1: between hardware and software, things started lining up in such
Speaker 1: a way where you no longer had to wait for
Speaker 1: things to render. So we've gotten to a point where
Speaker 1: we can have and and this is kind of what
Speaker 1: I say virtual production is. It's a bridge between what
Speaker 1: is physical and what is virtual. The two things can
Speaker 1: live in the same space. You can start in a
Speaker 1: virtual and transitioned into the physical in the way that
Speaker 1: you would use your normal filmic vocabulary. UM and you
Speaker 1: don't have to switch all of these modes all the time.
Speaker 1: So that to me, that's virtual pretendent and it encompasses
Speaker 1: pre vis. There's of course pitch biz there, stunt viz, um,
Speaker 1: there's the in camera visual effects that are there. Um,
Speaker 1: there are people who are doing post viz or final pixel.
Speaker 1: All of this is a part of virtual production. And then,
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, the amazing ability to do these
Speaker 1: things remotely yet feel like you're in the same space
Speaker 1: as if you're actually on a physical set, but you're
Speaker 1: actually operating in a virtual set. That that's what virtual
Speaker 1: production is. So let's ground this in in some actual examples.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a production that happened I don't know,
Speaker 1: a month ago, six months ago, Uh, that employed some
Speaker 1: part of virtual production tools. Yeah. Absolutely. So one of
Speaker 1: the things that happens is you start to shift where
Speaker 1: instead of everybody in in the past, the crew would come,
Speaker 1: they get to the set and they would shoot, for example,
Speaker 1: green screen, and the DP has no idea what the
Speaker 1: lighting is going to be, like, nothing has really been
Speaker 1: decided about this shot, so they light it flat and
Speaker 1: they move forward. Work well, in a virtual production scenario,
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do is they're going to create the
Speaker 1: content that they would have created in post. They're going
Speaker 1: to create that in pree. They're going to create that
Speaker 1: right up top. Just as they're setting uh there, you know,
Speaker 1: designing the stage, they're going to be also designing the
Speaker 1: virtual environment so that when they get onto the stage,
Speaker 1: the director of photographer fee and the director are actually
Speaker 1: interfacing with the actor as if they're actually they're in
Speaker 1: a physical space. Yet if they're on an LED wall
Speaker 1: or even if they're doing a live composite, they're actually
Speaker 1: seeing what this is going to ultimately be. UM. So
Speaker 1: you know, in in the case of I use a
Speaker 1: great example of some of the stunt biz people UM
Speaker 1: and their ability to before they even get to the stage,
Speaker 1: they know exactly the measurements, they know exactly the lights
Speaker 1: that they're going to need, they know what they're going
Speaker 1: to do before they her got there, even to the
Speaker 1: point of they're able to lend things so that when
Speaker 1: they get onto the set they're just executing at that point,
Speaker 1: or they're really starting to a little bit more explore
Speaker 1: the performance rather than having to work about on all
Speaker 1: the technical issues. So this is happening today, and and
Speaker 1: and also happening in remote scenarios, you know, where you
Speaker 1: have people who are in their own homes, yet they're
Speaker 1: acting as if they're actually on the set yet on
Speaker 1: their computer, so when they do get to the set,
Speaker 1: they feel like they've already been there before. So this
Speaker 1: sounds like a quantum leap in the ability of production
Speaker 1: to do all sorts of things that nothing. They couldn't
Speaker 1: do it before, but it's just so much more efficient.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it is a quantum leap. It is.
Speaker 1: This is I think, you know, to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: I early in my career, I worked at I l M.
Speaker 1: And I walked into the C Theater at the time
Speaker 1: when we were doing the Jurassic Park test, the first
Speaker 1: test that showed that we could use computer graphics. Um uh,
Speaker 1: Spaz Williams, Steve Williams and Mark to Pay and West Takahashi,
Speaker 1: all these guys. Um they had kind of gone rogue
Speaker 1: and they put this up. And when I walked in
Speaker 1: and I saw it, you know, your knees kind of
Speaker 1: buckled because you were like, Okay, this is gonna change
Speaker 1: things forever, And in fact it did. I when I
Speaker 1: won the Mandalorian. When I walked onto that set, I
Speaker 1: had the same feeling. I had the feeling that this
Speaker 1: just changed the entire industry. This is a quantum uh
Speaker 1: leap ahead. And and ultimately what it did is it
Speaker 1: got rid of all the byproducts that came from c
Speaker 1: G I, all the waiting, all the notes that get past,
Speaker 1: all the five dimensional chess that you have to play
Speaker 1: in order to to to get the ultimate in image,
Speaker 1: and not even being able to to rate on things
Speaker 1: as a whole rather in parts. So if we get
Speaker 1: rid of all that, now you're just able to interface
Speaker 1: with the image or with the story in the same
Speaker 1: way that you would on set. That is just a
Speaker 1: mind blowing idea. Yeah, and I would add to that
Speaker 1: that I think one of the most important things is
Speaker 1: that we no longer have to complete mentalize the process.
Speaker 1: We're able to put everybody in the same room. Now
Speaker 1: you used to have to wait for months in order
Speaker 1: to find out what was happening in post whether that
Speaker 1: was going to work. Um, it was something that almost
Speaker 1: was like two separate movies. Um. Now everything's you're able
Speaker 1: to iterate in real time, collaborate in real time with
Speaker 1: everybody on the set at one time. And that's because well,
Speaker 1: we have the tools now, the technology to and the
Speaker 1: software to bring everything together onto the stage. And that's
Speaker 1: what's making this really exciting is that we can do
Speaker 1: this in real time. Connie, you run the l A lab.
Speaker 1: What is that? Uh? And and talk about what it's
Speaker 1: like nowadays in terms of evangelizing this kind of production
Speaker 1: at a time due to COVID that so many people
Speaker 1: are seeing the usual practice is disrupted. I think what
Speaker 1: this is done is it's you know, by by bringing
Speaker 1: people together virtually, which all of us are doing now, um,
Speaker 1: We've it's given us time for reflection. It's given us
Speaker 1: time to learn and to start to reassess the way
Speaker 1: in which we're working together. And I think that there
Speaker 1: you know, it used to be that people would think
Speaker 1: that this kind of technology was replacing something. It's not. Instead,
Speaker 1: it's adding something to what we're doing. It's it's um
Speaker 1: giving us the opportunity, say, for example, if you do
Speaker 1: want go on location, and certainly as we get back
Speaker 1: into production there's going to be some hesitancy with that.
Speaker 1: You might do some of your location work while you're
Speaker 1: able to determine that it's it's safe and it's going
Speaker 1: to work. Um. And then you could take that onto
Speaker 1: an i CB effects stage and you could do all
Speaker 1: your pickups. You could, you could do everything that you
Speaker 1: might have to go back to that location to get.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things that we're adding now to
Speaker 1: the tool kit to be able to create um, television
Speaker 1: and film and other kinds of media in ways that
Speaker 1: are providing an efficiency, cost effectiveness and just logistical solutions
Speaker 1: that are helping everyone. I want to add on to
Speaker 1: one thing that she just said, because I just saw
Speaker 1: something just the other day. Um, it was a pickup.
Speaker 1: It was a pickup that they needed for editorial to
Speaker 1: make the story work, and they just needed to pick
Speaker 1: up a few lines of someone who was in a
Speaker 1: car driving. And the image that I saw with someone
Speaker 1: sitting in a folding chair with the steering wheel of
Speaker 1: whatever the model was that they were actually driving. They
Speaker 1: had a door which was like from a you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they got it from the wrecking yard or something
Speaker 1: like that. And then they had two head rests on
Speaker 1: c stands and they were able to get that shot
Speaker 1: and and just have the and they could book it
Speaker 1: at any time any time. The actor could make it,
Speaker 1: sat down in the chair, picked up those couple of lines,
Speaker 1: You're not going to know the difference between whether he
Speaker 1: was actually in the car or not. And that's just
Speaker 1: like to me, that's phenomenal. That's that's incredible that that
Speaker 1: we can do. And exactly as as Connie was saying,
Speaker 1: it's just it's changing the paradigm. But when you change
Speaker 1: the paradigm, it sounds and I think Connie alluded to
Speaker 1: this that there's gonna be some disruption that people who
Speaker 1: are used to doing their jobs one way or companies
Speaker 1: who have vested interest in things going a certain way
Speaker 1: could have issues with that. So are we going to
Speaker 1: see as we often see in Hollywood when new technology
Speaker 1: hits uh, that you know it's gonna take some smoothing
Speaker 1: over to get this to where it needs to be. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm eternally the optimists, So just so let me let
Speaker 1: me preface it by saying that, um, what I actually
Speaker 1: think is going on is you do have some people
Speaker 1: that like to paint by numbers, and the paint by
Speaker 1: numbers is going to be a challenge. You have those
Speaker 1: other people that like puzzles and they like to figure
Speaker 1: things out and you know, that reminds me a lot
Speaker 1: of kind of the you know, eighties, nineties and things
Speaker 1: like that as we're trying to figure out what this
Speaker 1: can really be. So for some people, you're right, this
Speaker 1: is going to be a bit of a challenge. And
Speaker 1: um that you know, there's some people the creative process,
Speaker 1: some people can't make the decision in the moment, and
Speaker 1: so deferring it is better for them. Now that said,
Speaker 1: I want to say that being able to have a
Speaker 1: DP actually come and really light something, not have to
Speaker 1: just light it flat like they actually get to contribute
Speaker 1: to real lighting in the previous stage and as pages
Speaker 1: are coming off of you know, from the writer, they're
Speaker 1: actually able to start that visualization. And you know, the
Speaker 1: the other part of this is, um, the barrier to
Speaker 1: entry is extremely low for this. The Unreal Engine is free,
Speaker 1: so anyone can download it. Um there are assets that
Speaker 1: can use to to start to do kind of previous
Speaker 1: I'm hearing of dps right now that are taking this
Speaker 1: up so that they can kind of visualize shots for free.
Speaker 1: All they need is their gaming computer to do it right.
Speaker 1: And and so what what this means though, is that
Speaker 1: I'm seeing people in other departments pick this up. So
Speaker 1: set design, I'm seeing some set design people that you
Speaker 1: know have traditionally been collecting things that are in the
Speaker 1: physical space also having a person or two on in
Speaker 1: unreal creating that same thing that they have physically so
Speaker 1: that they can have but when they come to the stage,
Speaker 1: they're bringing both things to the stage and contributing in
Speaker 1: the virtual space just as they do in the physical space,
Speaker 1: and bringing that talent that they have because I mean
Speaker 1: they have years and years of expertise and how to
Speaker 1: set up a stage and how to block something out.
Speaker 1: They're able to bring that talent now into the virtual
Speaker 1: space as well. And then the same thing for those
Speaker 1: people who are have been typically on the in the
Speaker 1: post production side, they're coming forward and now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden they're able to be on set in some situation.
Speaker 1: It is a change, but I'm I am really optimistic
Speaker 1: at the change that's coming. It's not more technical, it's
Speaker 1: it's less technical, so that we can have the same
Speaker 1: conversation that we've been having for a hundred years in
Speaker 1: how to make film and how to block out chopped
Speaker 1: And I think what's really important now is that we're
Speaker 1: kind of breaking down these barriers and and demystifying the
Speaker 1: process because there's so so much about the tools that
Speaker 1: is uh making it possible for people who have been
Speaker 1: separated in production and post and they're now coming together
Speaker 1: and we're blending the two worlds. And what this means
Speaker 1: is that, just like Miles is saying, say, a production
Speaker 1: designer has to design sets now that will blend from
Speaker 1: physical to virtual and that's something well, you need to
Speaker 1: understand how these assets are being built to a certain
Speaker 1: extent in order to know how to create the physical
Speaker 1: set so that that it is a seamless process. And
Speaker 1: I think what that's doing is just adding a level
Speaker 1: of creativity to the whole process. It's attracting people that
Speaker 1: that may have assumed that they will not able to
Speaker 1: be in production and now they have a place in production.
Speaker 1: And it's really exciting that we're finally breaking down that
Speaker 1: barrier between posts and production. We need to take a
Speaker 1: quick break, but we back more with our guests Miles
Speaker 1: Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games. And we're back
Speaker 1: with Miles Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games. UH.
Speaker 1: They referenced earlier work on the Mandalorian and back on
Speaker 1: this podcast in October, director Jon Favreau came on to
Speaker 1: talk about his work on that Disney Plus series and
Speaker 1: Epics role in it. Let's have a quick listen. Part
Speaker 1: of what were exploring is is using game engine real
Speaker 1: time rendering, because with all the compositing that we're doing,
Speaker 1: we could either do it in camera using video walls.
Speaker 1: Were were the first production to actually take advantage of
Speaker 1: innovations that have been taking place. In this case, we're
Speaker 1: working with I l M and with Epic Unreal Engine,
Speaker 1: with Magnopus, a lot of people that I've worked with
Speaker 1: before on other projects, and we try to create a
Speaker 1: new way to use this real time rendering where you
Speaker 1: can actually do in camera effects on video walls with
Speaker 1: camera tracking and parallax miles. How did Epic come to
Speaker 1: get involved in this? I mean, did the company understand
Speaker 1: from the very beginning in terms of its gaming engine
Speaker 1: what the implications were and and saw Hollywood coming from
Speaker 1: the second it was invented? Or how did we get here? Well,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a little secret here. Do tell So
Speaker 1: the first part of this is the Unreal Engine was
Speaker 1: used actually, um when I was back at I l
Speaker 1: M on AI back in ninety one, so you know
Speaker 1: that's the Steven Spielberg movie exactly. Yeah, UM, are AI
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence? Yes, And it was just to kind of
Speaker 1: figure out what was going to ultimately be built on
Speaker 1: the in the model shop, UM to kind of visualize
Speaker 1: where he how he wanted to block out his shots
Speaker 1: in Rouge City. So there's always been this awareness within
Speaker 1: the community that hey, wait a minute, this game engine stuff.
Speaker 1: Not only are you able to render fast, but game
Speaker 1: engines also have this if then kind of programming. If
Speaker 1: I moved this chair, that flock of birds is going
Speaker 1: to fly away. So that's kind of been in the
Speaker 1: background now. The CTO of our company, Kim Liberry, is
Speaker 1: also someone who I've worked with for about fifteen or
Speaker 1: so years. He was a visual effects supervisor at Industrial
Speaker 1: Light and Magic. He's actually one of the people UM
Speaker 1: on the Matrix who the original matric came up with
Speaker 1: Bullet Time UM and has worked on numerous other films.
Speaker 1: Working with Kim has always been something else because Kim
Speaker 1: is always five ten years ahead of everybody else and
Speaker 1: and in some ways kind of frustrated in that, like
Speaker 1: I want to I want to see it right now,
Speaker 1: And so he landed at at at Epic Games as
Speaker 1: the CTO at this time, where he could take the
Speaker 1: game engine and make it look photo real. So naturally,
Speaker 1: um as Kim is, you know, having conversations with Colin
Speaker 1: Wilson and and the other members of the team. UM
Speaker 1: there at Lucas film this idea. You know, why can't
Speaker 1: we do it this way? And Dave Felony also, you know,
Speaker 1: why can't we do this? So you know, the test
Speaker 1: got put together real quick, and the idea really is
Speaker 1: not just as some sort of translate or something like that,
Speaker 1: but that it's actually wrapping around So so all of
Speaker 1: the especially on a shiny object, all of the flections
Speaker 1: are accurate, the lighting is accurate, all of this stuff. So, um,
Speaker 1: that's kind of how it started. And the engine and
Speaker 1: the hardware and everything was up to the task. And
Speaker 1: now we find ourselves here with you know, at that
Speaker 1: time there was one such stage and now we're tracking
Speaker 1: about a hundred and thirty five hundred forty stages throughout
Speaker 1: the globe. You know, it's it's just it's been amazing
Speaker 1: to see it take off. But that was really the
Speaker 1: germination of this and the other. The other thing I'll
Speaker 1: say about John Favreau in general, Um, John Favreau is
Speaker 1: one of those people who is willing, He trusts his
Speaker 1: the people that he works with. He's willing to take risks.
Speaker 1: Not only that, but he knows that it's going to
Speaker 1: be hard work and he knows how to get you there.
Speaker 1: And that's a rare uh quality there. There are a
Speaker 1: few filmmakers that have that. But the really neat thing
Speaker 1: about this is that right now it's not just relegated
Speaker 1: to those people that are at the top of their field,
Speaker 1: like the John Favreau or the um or the Cameron
Speaker 1: or you know, George or No, it's not actually right
Speaker 1: now because of where we stand and because of epics
Speaker 1: approach to this, we are really trying to democratize as
Speaker 1: much as possible access to these tools. You know, our
Speaker 1: our founder truly believes that you really should not be
Speaker 1: setting brought barriers to creativity that should not exist. You
Speaker 1: should allow people to create and be the best that
Speaker 1: they could be because the world is going to be
Speaker 1: a better place for that, and then there's opportunities to
Speaker 1: share in the success of great creations. And I think
Speaker 1: that extends to education, of course, and that's something that
Speaker 1: we've tried to add to services through EPIC is to
Speaker 1: offer things a fellowship program that we started during the
Speaker 1: pandemic that had a huge response, and I think that's
Speaker 1: because people are really ready for this. They can see
Speaker 1: the opportunity and they can see it working. They can
Speaker 1: see projects that are amazing like the Mandalorian, and they're
Speaker 1: excited about trying to put it into practice. So we've
Speaker 1: combined the free access to the software with support and
Speaker 1: education and UM. We're creating a curriculum that we can
Speaker 1: start to teach all around the world to try and
Speaker 1: help people get going as soon as possible. And now
Speaker 1: you're launching a new production hub in El Segundo. Tell
Speaker 1: us a bit about that, Connie. We will have a
Speaker 1: demo stage for EPIC and UM and that will have
Speaker 1: a production stage, and a demo stage is where we'd
Speaker 1: like to bring in clients to look at the at
Speaker 1: the tools that are used to explore the pipeline and
Speaker 1: to be able to have a hands on experience with
Speaker 1: this new technology, so which will help people to to
Speaker 1: determine the type of production that they like to to
Speaker 1: UM implement depending on the project. They are. All of
Speaker 1: these tools are specific to different needs, so it takes
Speaker 1: a while to determine which ones are most appropriate depending
Speaker 1: on the story and depending on the type of production.
Speaker 1: So I think getting the opportunity to be hands on
Speaker 1: is crucial to being able to make those decisions. And
Speaker 1: recent announcement that came out about this campus, um so
Speaker 1: Next Studios has been someone who's been on the scene
Speaker 1: that runs studios and everything. They're they're independent of us,
Speaker 1: but they're also an independent stage provider, which you know
Speaker 1: we we um not only them, but there are others
Speaker 1: that are that are out there that the other parts.
Speaker 1: They were bringing this sense of a campus, a place
Speaker 1: where virtual production there could kind of be a hub
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and so what we decided we wanted
Speaker 1: to collocate our our our labs there, and the reason
Speaker 1: being is you know that that is their business to
Speaker 1: run and everything like that, but being able to be
Speaker 1: close uh to UH production stage. And then also as
Speaker 1: Connie was saying, you know, being able to have our
Speaker 1: own demo stage where we can bring filmmakers by, we
Speaker 1: can do training, you know, can really be a hub
Speaker 1: of where the latest and greatest and virtual production, not
Speaker 1: to mention the fact that since this is a campus,
Speaker 1: it's also attracting other people who you know, virtual art
Speaker 1: departments or previous companies. There are all these different people
Speaker 1: that are interested in being this area, and you know,
Speaker 1: for me, it's exciting to see when you have these
Speaker 1: independent companies coming together to kind of colocate, to create
Speaker 1: a space um that is really where the best ideas
Speaker 1: are kind of coming out. And I think that when
Speaker 1: that happens, the entire industry benefits from it because you know,
Speaker 1: we get to go and we get to work on
Speaker 1: the next latest and greatest, and we know that it's
Speaker 1: going to be production ready, so that when we're working
Speaker 1: with the studios that they know when they have a
Speaker 1: tent pole film that they can rely on the technology
Speaker 1: that's coming to them. And I think what's at the
Speaker 1: core of that concept is that Epic is interested in
Speaker 1: helping everyone across the board. This isn't something that we're
Speaker 1: focused on anyone company, and the opportunity to help create
Speaker 1: a community around that notion is really implotant, like Miles
Speaker 1: of saying, for the entire industry. So I want to understand, though,
Speaker 1: from a business perspective, what this means to epic are
Speaker 1: are you out there are licensing the software and making revenue?
Speaker 1: Is this material business? I'm sure it's not quite making
Speaker 1: as much as Fortnite if it is, but I'm trying
Speaker 1: to understand that. You know, the fact of the matter
Speaker 1: is you you you kind of hit on something there
Speaker 1: is that we're fortunate enough to not only have Fortnite,
Speaker 1: but Fortnite is built on the Unreal Engine, and so
Speaker 1: as we make the Unreal Engine better for not only
Speaker 1: UM for Fortnite, but also for other Triple A games.
Speaker 1: You know, there are many other games that are built
Speaker 1: on the Unreal Engine. UM. But I think what we
Speaker 1: we we see this future um and and we're starting
Speaker 1: to see it play out in small part right now
Speaker 1: where you know, if I look at my son, my
Speaker 1: son doesn't necessarily pick up a remote control to consume
Speaker 1: his media. He actually uses his gaming console whether he's
Speaker 1: watching linear content where he's playing with his friends, and
Speaker 1: then he's also communicating with them. So I think what
Speaker 1: we know is that you know, right now, there's games
Speaker 1: over here, and there's linear content here, and there's experiences
Speaker 1: over here. Or I think the promise of the Unreal
Speaker 1: Engine is that you'll be able to create a world
Speaker 1: that can have implications in linear content and experiences and
Speaker 1: in gaming using the same assets. And so for us
Speaker 1: with what what we're looking at is, you know, some
Speaker 1: of the greatest ideas come out of film and television
Speaker 1: and and happen in the Los Angeles areas and in
Speaker 1: other areas as well, Don't get me wrong. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing amazing stories coming out of some
Speaker 1: of these other countries. UM. And what we're trying to
Speaker 1: do is really create these tools whereby stories can be
Speaker 1: told in all of these mediums. And we are fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to have Fortnite, which is helping this. We're also
Speaker 1: a private company so that we can look at the
Speaker 1: long game and what this is. UM. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think again back to what I was saying before, UM,
Speaker 1: we just want more and more ple to be able
Speaker 1: to be creative. And we believe that when people are
Speaker 1: successful in their creativity, everybody is going to be successful.
Speaker 1: But are you making money on this yet? I want
Speaker 1: an answer there, huh, So I would say that we're
Speaker 1: not making money anywhere near what we're making. So actually
Speaker 1: I'll answer more directly. Our business model is with gaming.
Speaker 1: If you use that n Real engine. The U list
Speaker 1: is that you'll pay five. In the film and television space,
Speaker 1: we get rid of that, and there are no marketing rights,
Speaker 1: so literally anybody can basically use the engine. We don't
Speaker 1: charge very much right now, So to answer your question, no,
Speaker 1: we're not trying to make a lot of money in
Speaker 1: this area. We believe that the future is going to
Speaker 1: be successful for everyone, and that that the future will
Speaker 1: be that you're going to see some of these filmmakers
Speaker 1: and storytellers not only tell linear stories, but they're also
Speaker 1: to be in the game space, and and we will
Speaker 1: continue to grow that the future is also Unreal Engine five.
Speaker 1: This next iteration of the secret sauce, Uh, what what
Speaker 1: is that going to bring to the table? Is that
Speaker 1: gonna When does that hit? When does that? What does
Speaker 1: that change? I can't contain myself. It's so exciting. This
Speaker 1: next year is going to bring some of the most
Speaker 1: amazing advancements. Um kind of across the board. Um so
Speaker 1: um what is it? Unreal five? What does it really mean?
Speaker 1: It means that you're going to be able to do
Speaker 1: film quality assets and moving around in envirnus. You're going
Speaker 1: to be able to filmmakers will be able to in
Speaker 1: essence play god um and do anything in the engine,
Speaker 1: and you're not worried about the processing power or anything
Speaker 1: like that in in some of these. So if you
Speaker 1: saw the demo, you can see how close you can
Speaker 1: get in on these assets and then it looks like
Speaker 1: a feature film yet it's running and basically uh ps
Speaker 1: five in that case. So it's it's gonna be fund
Speaker 1: It's gonna fundamentally shift the way um people are making
Speaker 1: content and how iterative they're going to be able to
Speaker 1: be on a near final image and um miles. You
Speaker 1: also recently completed work on a second edition of the
Speaker 1: Virtual Production Guide What what does that do? And what
Speaker 1: is new? Well, so when I kind of first came
Speaker 1: into Epic, one of the things I noticed a lot
Speaker 1: of the colleagues who I had worked with for a
Speaker 1: long time, who are out there you know, the third floor,
Speaker 1: and and Halon and some of these other folks. We
Speaker 1: had brought together a group, and I noticed that the
Speaker 1: conversation they were talking about the same thing when they
Speaker 1: were talking about virtual production, but they were using different words,
Speaker 1: they were using different ideas, And so it struck me
Speaker 1: that we needed something that could kind of have people
Speaker 1: tell their stories, tell their variance is but we could
Speaker 1: start to standardize on some of the ideas out there.
Speaker 1: I also always knew that we're in the beginning, and
Speaker 1: my experience when you're in the beginning of something, anything
Speaker 1: that you printed last year is not going to be
Speaker 1: accurate anymore about it next year. So, UM, this new version,
Speaker 1: if that first one was, you know, roughly nineties some
Speaker 1: odd pages, we're up in the hundred and fifty seventy
Speaker 1: page range. Um, and a lot of a lot more
Speaker 1: stories from a lot more people who have actually had
Speaker 1: experience with it, and we get into much more detail
Speaker 1: about how you employ some of the virtual production techniques. Connie,
Speaker 1: I want you to look back at which of course
Speaker 1: was shadowed greatly by the pandemic. Do you think the
Speaker 1: arc of unreal engines work in virtual production would have
Speaker 1: been different in a more normal year or is it
Speaker 1: something that really drove the technology along. I think it's
Speaker 1: really driven the technology along more so than um it
Speaker 1: may have otherwise in some ways, because I think the
Speaker 1: ability for all of us to trust virtual solutions has changed.
Speaker 1: I think the fact that we've all gone to work
Speaker 1: from home when that was looked at as possibly something
Speaker 1: that was detrimental to the productivity of many companies, has
Speaker 1: been proven quite the opposite. And I think also UM
Speaker 1: you know, techniques of filmmaking have UM maybe been a
Speaker 1: little resistant to some of these tools, and now I
Speaker 1: think they're embracing them because it's a solution that's going
Speaker 1: to get them back into production sooner. So I've noticed
Speaker 1: a lot of people preparing their projects differently in order
Speaker 1: to UM two increase LEWD, different aspects of virtual production
Speaker 1: that they may not have decided to use otherwise. And
Speaker 1: I think that has UM created a different kind of
Speaker 1: community because everybody needs to support one another in this process.
Speaker 1: There everyone's had different experiences that they can bring to
Speaker 1: the table, and I think there's been a lot more
Speaker 1: sharing of ideas and collaboration as a result, and I
Speaker 1: think UM I think we're going to see some really
Speaker 1: interesting stages set up in the next few months where
Speaker 1: people are willing to take this risk because they can
Speaker 1: see that there are so many opportunities to what it
Speaker 1: has to offer terrific. Well, I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 1: seeing the progress you guys make this year, and thank
Speaker 1: you both for coming and talking about it. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having it. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you
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