WEBVTT - Virtual Production Takes Hold of Hollywood with Epic Games' Unreal Engine 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.640 Welcome to Strictly Business, the podcast in which we talk 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:13.080 with some of the brightest minds working in media today. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.400 I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. While the pandemic has made 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.759 making movies and TV shows pretty difficult, a set of 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.360 innovations known as virtual production has enabled many shoots to 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.320 continue even when the actors are in a different location 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.319 than the director. And a big part of who's keeping 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.400 Hollywood at the cutting edge is actually a gaming company, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.280 creator of the global phenomenon Fortnite. Joining me today from 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.760 Epic Games. From business development for film and television is 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.640 Miles Perkins and the head of its l A lab, 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.640 Connie Kennedy. It's all coming up today on this episode 0:00:48.720 --> 0:01:01.800 of Strictly Business. Welcome back to Strictly Business, where my 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.319 guests are Miles Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.640 We're gonna talk in a bit about Epics Unreal Engine, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.760 the software that is the secret sauce powering a lot 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:13.800 of the virtual production that has been put to use 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.360 for TV shows like HBO's Westworld, His Dark Materials and 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.480 the film John Wick three. But before we get to 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.640 Unreal I want my guests to help me break down 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.679 for the listeners and as jargon free a manner as possible, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.200 just what virtual production is, because as I've studied it, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.559 it's it's not any one thing, and it has many 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:40.200 implications for transforming the traditional production process. So Miles get 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.400 us started. Can you sort of lay out a uh 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.720 an idea of what virtual production is? Sore? Yeah, I 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.280 think that the techniques that have been behind virtual production 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.040 have been around for a long time. Whether we're talking 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:58.000 about pre viz um, animal attics, UM, we have some 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.840 pitch biz kind of things, all of these things where 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.559 how do you visualize how do you very quickly get 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.760 to a visualization of an idea, but you kind of 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.679 start to fast forward. And what what essentially happened is 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:15.040 between hardware and software, things started lining up in such 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.880 a way where you no longer had to wait for 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.079 things to render. So we've gotten to a point where 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.320 we can have and and this is kind of what 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.960 I say virtual production is. It's a bridge between what 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.520 is physical and what is virtual. The two things can 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.760 live in the same space. You can start in a 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.679 virtual and transitioned into the physical in the way that 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.880 you would use your normal filmic vocabulary. UM and you 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.040 don't have to switch all of these modes all the time. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.680 So that to me, that's virtual pretendent and it encompasses 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.320 pre vis. There's of course pitch biz there, stunt viz, um, 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.160 there's the in camera visual effects that are there. Um, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.880 there are people who are doing post viz or final pixel. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.919 All of this is a part of virtual production. And then, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.960 as you pointed out, the amazing ability to do these 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.800 things remotely yet feel like you're in the same space 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.160 as if you're actually on a physical set, but you're 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.840 actually operating in a virtual set. That that's what virtual 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.880 production is. So let's ground this in in some actual examples. 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.320 Let's talk about a production that happened I don't know, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.880 a month ago, six months ago, Uh, that employed some 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.360 part of virtual production tools. Yeah. Absolutely. So one of 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.960 the things that happens is you start to shift where 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:46.119 instead of everybody in in the past, the crew would come, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.840 they get to the set and they would shoot, for example, 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.840 green screen, and the DP has no idea what the 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.200 lighting is going to be, like, nothing has really been 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.800 decided about this shot, so they light it flat and 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:05.320 they move forward. Work well, in a virtual production scenario, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.320 what they're gonna do is they're going to create the 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.160 content that they would have created in post. They're going 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.280 to create that in pree. They're going to create that 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.840 right up top. Just as they're setting uh there, you know, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.919 designing the stage, they're going to be also designing the 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.880 virtual environment so that when they get onto the stage, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.280 the director of photographer fee and the director are actually 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.080 interfacing with the actor as if they're actually they're in 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.440 a physical space. Yet if they're on an LED wall 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.320 or even if they're doing a live composite, they're actually 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.359 seeing what this is going to ultimately be. UM. So 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.640 you know, in in the case of I use a 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.000 great example of some of the stunt biz people UM 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.719 and their ability to before they even get to the stage, 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.800 they know exactly the measurements, they know exactly the lights 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.800 that they're going to need, they know what they're going 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.120 to do before they her got there, even to the 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.120 point of they're able to lend things so that when 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.200 they get onto the set they're just executing at that point, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.080 or they're really starting to a little bit more explore 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.800 the performance rather than having to work about on all 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.360 the technical issues. So this is happening today, and and 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.719 and also happening in remote scenarios, you know, where you 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.440 have people who are in their own homes, yet they're 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.080 acting as if they're actually on the set yet on 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.279 their computer, so when they do get to the set, 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.479 they feel like they've already been there before. So this 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:38.000 sounds like a quantum leap in the ability of production 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.880 to do all sorts of things that nothing. They couldn't 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.440 do it before, but it's just so much more efficient. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.120 It sounds like it is a quantum leap. It is. 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.159 This is I think, you know, to be honest with you, 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.320 I early in my career, I worked at I l M. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.679 And I walked into the C Theater at the time 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.760 when we were doing the Jurassic Park test, the first 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.920 test that showed that we could use computer graphics. Um uh, 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:11.240 Spaz Williams, Steve Williams and Mark to Pay and West Takahashi, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.520 all these guys. Um they had kind of gone rogue 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.719 and they put this up. And when I walked in 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.200 and I saw it, you know, your knees kind of 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.159 buckled because you were like, Okay, this is gonna change 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:27.320 things forever, And in fact it did. I when I 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.479 won the Mandalorian. When I walked onto that set, I 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.280 had the same feeling. I had the feeling that this 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:39.919 just changed the entire industry. This is a quantum uh 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.960 leap ahead. And and ultimately what it did is it 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.320 got rid of all the byproducts that came from c 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.960 G I, all the waiting, all the notes that get past, 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.360 all the five dimensional chess that you have to play 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.160 in order to to to get the ultimate in image, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.080 and not even being able to to rate on things 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.719 as a whole rather in parts. So if we get 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.720 rid of all that, now you're just able to interface 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.840 with the image or with the story in the same 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.200 way that you would on set. That is just a 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.000 mind blowing idea. Yeah, and I would add to that 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.880 that I think one of the most important things is 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.200 that we no longer have to complete mentalize the process. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.480 We're able to put everybody in the same room. Now 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.640 you used to have to wait for months in order 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.840 to find out what was happening in post whether that 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.600 was going to work. Um, it was something that almost 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.960 was like two separate movies. Um. Now everything's you're able 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.960 to iterate in real time, collaborate in real time with 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.760 everybody on the set at one time. And that's because well, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.560 we have the tools now, the technology to and the 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.680 software to bring everything together onto the stage. And that's 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.520 what's making this really exciting is that we can do 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.720 this in real time. Connie, you run the l A lab. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.240 What is that? Uh? And and talk about what it's 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:16.080 like nowadays in terms of evangelizing this kind of production 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.840 at a time due to COVID that so many people 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.720 are seeing the usual practice is disrupted. I think what 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.920 this is done is it's you know, by by bringing 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:33.359 people together virtually, which all of us are doing now, um, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.280 We've it's given us time for reflection. It's given us 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:42.320 time to learn and to start to reassess the way 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:47.720 in which we're working together. And I think that there 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.800 you know, it used to be that people would think 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.800 that this kind of technology was replacing something. It's not. Instead, 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:02.120 it's adding something to what we're doing. It's it's um 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:06.600 giving us the opportunity, say, for example, if you do 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.920 want go on location, and certainly as we get back 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.840 into production there's going to be some hesitancy with that. 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.160 You might do some of your location work while you're 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.360 able to determine that it's it's safe and it's going 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.000 to work. Um. And then you could take that onto 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.160 an i CB effects stage and you could do all 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:32.080 your pickups. You could, you could do everything that you 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.920 might have to go back to that location to get. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.760 There's all kinds of things that we're adding now to 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:44.120 the tool kit to be able to create um, television 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.480 and film and other kinds of media in ways that 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:54.200 are providing an efficiency, cost effectiveness and just logistical solutions 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.640 that are helping everyone. I want to add on to 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.320 one thing that she just said, because I just saw 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.959 something just the other day. Um, it was a pickup. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.599 It was a pickup that they needed for editorial to 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.920 make the story work, and they just needed to pick 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.280 up a few lines of someone who was in a 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.880 car driving. And the image that I saw with someone 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.800 sitting in a folding chair with the steering wheel of 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.839 whatever the model was that they were actually driving. They 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.880 had a door which was like from a you know, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.319 maybe they got it from the wrecking yard or something 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.320 like that. And then they had two head rests on 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.560 c stands and they were able to get that shot 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.880 and and just have the and they could book it 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.320 at any time any time. The actor could make it, 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.280 sat down in the chair, picked up those couple of lines, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.400 You're not going to know the difference between whether he 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.880 was actually in the car or not. And that's just 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.560 like to me, that's phenomenal. That's that's incredible that that 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.120 we can do. And exactly as as Connie was saying, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.200 it's just it's changing the paradigm. But when you change 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.440 the paradigm, it sounds and I think Connie alluded to 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.600 this that there's gonna be some disruption that people who 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.240 are used to doing their jobs one way or companies 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.040 who have vested interest in things going a certain way 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.440 could have issues with that. So are we going to 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.360 see as we often see in Hollywood when new technology 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.600 hits uh, that you know it's gonna take some smoothing 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.600 over to get this to where it needs to be. Well, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.920 I'm eternally the optimists, So just so let me let 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.840 me preface it by saying that, um, what I actually 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.800 think is going on is you do have some people 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.360 that like to paint by numbers, and the paint by 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.840 numbers is going to be a challenge. You have those 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.720 other people that like puzzles and they like to figure 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.560 things out and you know, that reminds me a lot 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.920 of kind of the you know, eighties, nineties and things 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.840 like that as we're trying to figure out what this 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.839 can really be. So for some people, you're right, this 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.080 is going to be a bit of a challenge. And 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.640 um that you know, there's some people the creative process, 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.440 some people can't make the decision in the moment, and 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.640 so deferring it is better for them. Now that said, 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.120 I want to say that being able to have a 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.920 DP actually come and really light something, not have to 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.239 just light it flat like they actually get to contribute 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.400 to real lighting in the previous stage and as pages 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.360 are coming off of you know, from the writer, they're 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.079 actually able to start that visualization. And you know, the 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.880 the other part of this is, um, the barrier to 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.360 entry is extremely low for this. The Unreal Engine is free, 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.120 so anyone can download it. Um there are assets that 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.800 can use to to start to do kind of previous 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.080 I'm hearing of dps right now that are taking this 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.000 up so that they can kind of visualize shots for free. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.800 All they need is their gaming computer to do it right. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.360 And and so what what this means though, is that 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.679 I'm seeing people in other departments pick this up. So 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.440 set design, I'm seeing some set design people that you 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.680 know have traditionally been collecting things that are in the 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.599 physical space also having a person or two on in 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:19.199 unreal creating that same thing that they have physically so 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.959 that they can have but when they come to the stage, 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.400 they're bringing both things to the stage and contributing in 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.360 the virtual space just as they do in the physical space, 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.240 and bringing that talent that they have because I mean 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.560 they have years and years of expertise and how to 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.440 set up a stage and how to block something out. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.720 They're able to bring that talent now into the virtual 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.040 space as well. And then the same thing for those 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.720 people who are have been typically on the in the 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.400 post production side, they're coming forward and now all of 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.880 a sudden they're able to be on set in some situation. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.080 It is a change, but I'm I am really optimistic 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.320 at the change that's coming. It's not more technical, it's 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.000 it's less technical, so that we can have the same 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:10.080 conversation that we've been having for a hundred years in 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.800 how to make film and how to block out chopped 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.360 And I think what's really important now is that we're 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.960 kind of breaking down these barriers and and demystifying the 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.400 process because there's so so much about the tools that 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:30.800 is uh making it possible for people who have been 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.200 separated in production and post and they're now coming together 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.200 and we're blending the two worlds. And what this means 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.360 is that, just like Miles is saying, say, a production 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:48.480 designer has to design sets now that will blend from 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.480 physical to virtual and that's something well, you need to 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.200 understand how these assets are being built to a certain 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.280 extent in order to know how to create the physical 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.880 set so that that it is a seamless process. And 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.080 I think what that's doing is just adding a level 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.760 of creativity to the whole process. It's attracting people that 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.440 that may have assumed that they will not able to 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.560 be in production and now they have a place in production. 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.040 And it's really exciting that we're finally breaking down that 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:30.760 barrier between posts and production. We need to take a 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.920 quick break, but we back more with our guests Miles 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:41.640 Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games. And we're back 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.600 with Miles Perkins and Connie Kennedy of Epic Games. UH. 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:49.640 They referenced earlier work on the Mandalorian and back on 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.440 this podcast in October, director Jon Favreau came on to 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.440 talk about his work on that Disney Plus series and 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.760 Epics role in it. Let's have a quick listen. Part 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.120 of what were exploring is is using game engine real 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.360 time rendering, because with all the compositing that we're doing, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.960 we could either do it in camera using video walls. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.480 Were were the first production to actually take advantage of 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.000 innovations that have been taking place. In this case, we're 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:20.040 working with I l M and with Epic Unreal Engine, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.280 with Magnopus, a lot of people that I've worked with 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.240 before on other projects, and we try to create a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.520 new way to use this real time rendering where you 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.560 can actually do in camera effects on video walls with 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:37.800 camera tracking and parallax miles. How did Epic come to 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.680 get involved in this? I mean, did the company understand 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.240 from the very beginning in terms of its gaming engine 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.280 what the implications were and and saw Hollywood coming from 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.120 the second it was invented? Or how did we get here? Well, 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.480 there's a there's a little secret here. Do tell So 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:00.440 the first part of this is the Unreal Engine was 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.800 used actually, um when I was back at I l 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.600 M on AI back in ninety one, so you know 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.840 that's the Steven Spielberg movie exactly. Yeah, UM, are AI 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.920 artificial intelligence? Yes, And it was just to kind of 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.760 figure out what was going to ultimately be built on 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.480 the in the model shop, UM to kind of visualize 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.040 where he how he wanted to block out his shots 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.879 in Rouge City. So there's always been this awareness within 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.359 the community that hey, wait a minute, this game engine stuff. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.600 Not only are you able to render fast, but game 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.080 engines also have this if then kind of programming. If 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.280 I moved this chair, that flock of birds is going 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.399 to fly away. So that's kind of been in the 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.040 background now. The CTO of our company, Kim Liberry, is 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.000 also someone who I've worked with for about fifteen or 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.520 so years. He was a visual effects supervisor at Industrial 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.600 Light and Magic. He's actually one of the people UM 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.480 on the Matrix who the original matric came up with 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.000 Bullet Time UM and has worked on numerous other films. 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.800 Working with Kim has always been something else because Kim 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.640 is always five ten years ahead of everybody else and 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.879 and in some ways kind of frustrated in that, like 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.640 I want to I want to see it right now, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.640 And so he landed at at at Epic Games as 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.159 the CTO at this time, where he could take the 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:28.480 game engine and make it look photo real. So naturally, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.159 um as Kim is, you know, having conversations with Colin 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.560 Wilson and and the other members of the team. UM 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.040 there at Lucas film this idea. You know, why can't 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.439 we do it this way? And Dave Felony also, you know, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.800 why can't we do this? So you know, the test 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.159 got put together real quick, and the idea really is 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.720 not just as some sort of translate or something like that, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.600 but that it's actually wrapping around So so all of 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.719 the especially on a shiny object, all of the flections 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.280 are accurate, the lighting is accurate, all of this stuff. So, um, 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.280 that's kind of how it started. And the engine and 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.639 the hardware and everything was up to the task. And 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.880 now we find ourselves here with you know, at that 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.360 time there was one such stage and now we're tracking 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.439 about a hundred and thirty five hundred forty stages throughout 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.400 the globe. You know, it's it's just it's been amazing 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.720 to see it take off. But that was really the 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.600 germination of this and the other. The other thing I'll 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.520 say about John Favreau in general, Um, John Favreau is 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:42.919 one of those people who is willing, He trusts his 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.600 the people that he works with. He's willing to take risks. 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.359 Not only that, but he knows that it's going to 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.800 be hard work and he knows how to get you there. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.240 And that's a rare uh quality there. There are a 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.520 few filmmakers that have that. But the really neat thing 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.320 about this is that right now it's not just relegated 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.399 to those people that are at the top of their field, 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.760 like the John Favreau or the um or the Cameron 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.240 or you know, George or No, it's not actually right 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.480 now because of where we stand and because of epics 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.959 approach to this, we are really trying to democratize as 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.719 much as possible access to these tools. You know, our 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:32.080 our founder truly believes that you really should not be 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.960 setting brought barriers to creativity that should not exist. You 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.119 should allow people to create and be the best that 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.440 they could be because the world is going to be 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.240 a better place for that, and then there's opportunities to 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.000 share in the success of great creations. And I think 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:54.040 that extends to education, of course, and that's something that 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.440 we've tried to add to services through EPIC is to 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.199 offer things a fellowship program that we started during the 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:09.240 pandemic that had a huge response, and I think that's 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.160 because people are really ready for this. They can see 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.199 the opportunity and they can see it working. They can 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:20.080 see projects that are amazing like the Mandalorian, and they're 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.679 excited about trying to put it into practice. So we've 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:28.280 combined the free access to the software with support and 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:33.239 education and UM. We're creating a curriculum that we can 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.919 start to teach all around the world to try and 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.560 help people get going as soon as possible. And now 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:44.040 you're launching a new production hub in El Segundo. Tell 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.200 us a bit about that, Connie. We will have a 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.119 demo stage for EPIC and UM and that will have 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:54.160 a production stage, and a demo stage is where we'd 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.520 like to bring in clients to look at the at 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:02.320 the tools that are used to explore the pipeline and 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.680 to be able to have a hands on experience with 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:10.000 this new technology, so which will help people to to 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.919 determine the type of production that they like to to 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.840 UM implement depending on the project. They are. All of 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:23.880 these tools are specific to different needs, so it takes 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.120 a while to determine which ones are most appropriate depending 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.520 on the story and depending on the type of production. 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:37.320 So I think getting the opportunity to be hands on 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.439 is crucial to being able to make those decisions. And 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.560 recent announcement that came out about this campus, um so 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.639 Next Studios has been someone who's been on the scene 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.960 that runs studios and everything. They're they're independent of us, 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.320 but they're also an independent stage provider, which you know 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.119 we we um not only them, but there are others 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.720 that are that are out there that the other parts. 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:06.720 They were bringing this sense of a campus, a place 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.040 where virtual production there could kind of be a hub 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.800 in Los Angeles, and so what we decided we wanted 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:17.600 to collocate our our our labs there, and the reason 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.560 being is you know that that is their business to 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.359 run and everything like that, but being able to be 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.679 close uh to UH production stage. And then also as 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.040 Connie was saying, you know, being able to have our 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.239 own demo stage where we can bring filmmakers by, we 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.000 can do training, you know, can really be a hub 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.280 of where the latest and greatest and virtual production, not 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.640 to mention the fact that since this is a campus, 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:45.159 it's also attracting other people who you know, virtual art 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.480 departments or previous companies. There are all these different people 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.560 that are interested in being this area, and you know, 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:56.000 for me, it's exciting to see when you have these 0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:01.680 independent companies coming together to kind of colocate, to create 0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.520 a space um that is really where the best ideas 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:08.040 are kind of coming out. And I think that when 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.040 that happens, the entire industry benefits from it because you know, 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:15.240 we get to go and we get to work on 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:17.960 the next latest and greatest, and we know that it's 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.240 going to be production ready, so that when we're working 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.119 with the studios that they know when they have a 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.400 tent pole film that they can rely on the technology 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.679 that's coming to them. And I think what's at the 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:33.919