1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: to the heart of the issues that matter to you. 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: Today on the show, We've got my friend Buck Sexton. 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: He is the co host of The Clay Travis and 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. He is also a former CIA analyst 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: and the author of a New York Times best selling book, 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: Manufacturing Delusion. We're going to break down the Iran conflict, 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: what's it really about, what follows the bombing, what does 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: an exit strategy look like. We'll also talk about how 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: President Trump laid out last year in Saudi Arabia, how 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: he sees the future of the Middle East, commerce not chaos. 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: Is that an achievable goal. 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: We're also going to talk about the parallels between what 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: we're seeing now in Iran with sort of the Jahadist regime, 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: this brainwashing going on. With his new book, Manufacturing Delusion, 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of these tactics of totalitarian regimes, 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: whether it be Stalin Now dig into his book what 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: you need to know about it. 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: Also, we'll talk to him about why. 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: It's an a New York Times bestseller. Stay tuned for 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: my friend buck Sexton. Well, Buck Sexton, it's great to 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: have you on this show, my friend. Also, we'll get 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: to your boss quick. Congratulations in New York Times Bestseller, 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: so that's awesome. 25 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 2: Thank you. 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: Manufacturing Delusion number four New York Times Bestseller, so I 27 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: got to be kind of happy with that. And I 28 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 3: hope all of your fantastic audience goes and gets a 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 3: copy of Manufacturing Delusion, because I got to tell you, Lisa, 30 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: the biggest compliment that I've gotten is Wow, it's much 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: better than I thought it would be. 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: I said, okay, I'll take it. Well. 33 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: Also, make the New York Times best selling list as 34 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: a conservative is not an easy task, so thank you. 35 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 3: I actually sold more books than the number three, but 36 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: it was John Meacham and they just decided that he's 37 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: John Meachum, so he gets to go ahead of me. 38 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: But it was total nepo nonsense. If you will, well 39 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: you made it. So that's thank you. 40 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: Water we'll get to that in Assi and also parallels 41 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: between what's going on with a Run right now and 42 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: your book. From what you've seen so far with Operation Epic, 43 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: what do you think this war is really about? 44 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: It's about a lot of things, you know, Lisa, I 45 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 3: come from a background. I know you know this, But 46 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 3: for everyone who's joining us joining the CIA's Iraq Office 47 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: after the enormous debacle of weapons of mass destruction assessment 48 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 3: by the CIA by that very office. I wasn't there 49 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: when that happened, to be clear, but a couple of 50 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: years later I joined that office of the CIA, and 51 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: it was at a time when the Iraq War was 52 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 3: going terribly and we recognized that we had a full 53 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 3: blown insurgency and we were in for we had kicked 54 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 3: the hornets nest essentially, and we're in for a really 55 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: tough battle to try to stabilize things. 56 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: So those were lessons learned for the whole country. 57 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: For the millions who served in uniform, and obviously many 58 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 3: who never came home or were grievously wounded. We had 59 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: a a very painful lesson as a nation in Iraq. 60 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 3: But one of the lessons from all this is these 61 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: things are complicated, and I think that people right now 62 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 3: need to understand there's many different pieces. There's a clearly 63 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: there's an interest for the Israeli government and the Israeli 64 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: as Raelian national security and what's going. 65 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: On in Iran. 66 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 3: That's why they're involved in the strike. There's an interest 67 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 3: for the Iranian people in achieving freedom. There's an interest 68 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 3: for all of our Sunni Arab allies and not having 69 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: the greatest state sponsor of terror right next door and 70 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 3: or funding terrorist groups in their midst There's a US 71 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: national security interest because we don't want Iran to not 72 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 3: only have nukes, but people have to understand Iran with 73 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: nukes is a massive proliferation threat as well. Who gets 74 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: nukes after Iran if they get them right? And then 75 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: of course the reality of China buying ninety percent of 76 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: Iranian oil and what that does to the geopolitical realities 77 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: we face with China as a competitors. 78 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: You know, Lisa, I just I try to avoid the. 79 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: Straightforward answer because one thing I know from these kinds 80 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: of conflicts is the simple answer is always is always incomplete. 81 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: It may be right, but it's incomplete. 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, like, what would an exit even 83 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: look like from Iran? Because historically there's not really evidence 84 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: to point to where like bombing campaigns alone produce regime change. 85 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: Typically there's got to be some sort of on the 86 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: ground effort. 87 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: Usually there's an on the ground element. Yeah, but you're 88 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: pointing to Lisa. For example, the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan 89 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: was are on the ground partners, and we unleashed an 90 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 3: incredible aerial assault on the Taliban after nine to eleven, 91 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 3: But the ground fighting was done by the Northern Alliance, 92 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 3: and we knew they were in place, we knew they 93 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: were capable, and we essentially were their air force. So 94 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: they had the best air force by a factor of 95 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: ten or twenty in the world, which is a really 96 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 3: big battlefield help, especially when you're dealing with an adversary 97 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 3: that has effectively no air force and really no anti 98 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 3: air capability to speak of. 99 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: Same thing. When we were dealing with the it. 100 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 3: Was actually a NATO mission, which I think people forget now, 101 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: or really a European led mission in Libya with a 102 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: the ouster of Kadafi under the Obama administration. That was 103 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: we were the air force, but we didn't really have 104 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 3: a ground force that was reliable or trustworthy in any 105 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: meaningful sense, and so that we turned Libya into Somalia 106 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: because of all the warring factions on the ground and 107 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: led to ben Ghazi as everybody knows, and the disaster 108 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 3: that happened there. So in this case, I am not 109 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: aware of. Now, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 110 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 2: I am not. 111 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 3: Aware of a clear ground force that we can work 112 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: with in Iran. 113 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: I think the hope is that one will coalesce. 114 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: And by the way, I want to be very clear, 115 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: some people may be Lisa gofawing when they're like, yeah, 116 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 3: one's just going to come out. 117 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's going to happen. 118 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 3: I'm saying I believe the Trump administration is hoping to 119 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 3: be able to chip away, well more like stowing with 120 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 3: a sledgehamber, but to really degrade the Iranian state's capability 121 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: and then have some emergent faction that says, okay, okay, 122 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: we're kicking out all the Mullahs, we're renouncing terror. You know, 123 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: you need a general or ten to come forward who 124 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 3: have some control in the security forces and say we'll 125 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 3: basically be your partners on the ground here. That to 126 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: me is the single biggest variable in this whole equation. 127 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: Because everybody knew the Northern I mean, Lisa, it should 128 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 3: be noted that the head of the Northern Alliance, amidst. 129 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: Masoud is what he was known as Masoud Shah Massoud, 130 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: was assassinated. 131 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: I believe the day before or nine. 132 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 3: I mean, they knew they had to take him out 133 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: in the Northern Alliance because he was such a capable 134 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: military ally for the United States, so they took him 135 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 3: out before they hit us. 136 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: I'm not aware of a. 137 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: Massoud like figure in Iran, and that's a huge challenge 138 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 3: for WS. 139 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: But how does the fact that you know, I mean, 140 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: you look at these the Iranian regime, I mean they're Jawadists, right, 141 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: and so they're martyrs, and they're okay with being martyrs, 142 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: like that's their culture, and so how does that shape 143 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean, because you know most people, like if you 144 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: see your colleagues getting taken out left and right, you're 145 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: probably like not really going to want to raise your hand. 146 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: For the job. 147 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: I mean like, but so, so how does that shape 148 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, sort of that you just mentioned, like the 149 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: hope and the desire that maybe some of these commanders 150 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: or you know, more reasonable mind step forward and can 151 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: coalesce sort of a new regime or a new governance. 152 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: Like how does that joddess like want to be martyrs 153 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: and okay with being martyrs maybe impact that or prevent that. 154 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: It's it's a critical question. And again there's no simple answer. 155 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I think what you're asking is something that 156 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 3: the planners in the Pentagon, the people that are in 157 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,119 Speaker 3: charge or Thump himself in the White House, that are 158 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: making these kinds of decisions have to grapple with because 159 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: we are dealing with a lot of unknowns to borrow 160 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: from Rumsfeld as well as a lot of unknown unknowns 161 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: in all of this. And I think when you're looking 162 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: at the leadership and you're talking about jihadism, yes, there's 163 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 3: an ideological hard line across the top of the Iranian government. 164 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 3: There's also their version of the Nazi brown shirts, if 165 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: you will. The street thugs of the besiege. The besiege 166 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: are like the paramilitary arm of the Islamic Revolution of Iran. 167 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 3: Street thugs. The street thugs, I mean, they're the ones 168 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: that go out there. You know, they'll arm them up 169 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: if they have to, but they'll go out there and they'll, 170 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 3: you know, they'll exactly, they'll they'll they'll beat the processors 171 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 3: with bats and they'll you know, they'll mess people up 172 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: and do terrible things to people's female family members. That 173 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is who they are, right, 174 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 3: They're evil thugs. So the thing about regimes like Iran, 175 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: and we saw this in Syria as well well, is 176 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: they tend to have a tremendous amount of durability because 177 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 3: their entire existence hinges on the ability to use force 178 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: to stay in power. It's like their singular obsession. The 179 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 3: one thing that the regime really cares about is staying 180 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 3: in power, because they have no legitimacy if people aren't 181 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: afraid of them, and they don't have all the guns. 182 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 3: So that means that they can handle a lot of 183 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 3: internal repression because that's what they do, that's what they 184 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: excel at. They can handle a lot of leadership losses 185 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: because they've prepared for people to take over. I mean 186 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: you think about something like Syria. Sure, eventually the regime 187 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 3: fell eventually, but there were many attempts over decades to 188 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 3: get rid of the Assad regime. And I think now 189 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 3: he's like playing video games in a tower in Moscow 190 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 3: or something. 191 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: I mean, he fled to Moscow. 192 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: The reality of the Syrian regime was that they at 193 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: I think in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen juwicide bombers who 194 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 3: were getting near them in their inner circle. I mean, 195 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: they were very close to being taken out and then 196 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: they managed to hold on for the better part of 197 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: another of a decade. Right, So these things can be 198 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: very unpredictable with how how long these people are able 199 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 3: to stay in power. Even when they've lost the ability 200 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: to project power externally, they can often maintain a lot 201 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: of authority internally through force, through through violence. And you're 202 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: asking about the Jihattist side of it, It's really complicated 203 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: because you have a Jihattist leadership layer on top of 204 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: a massive security app or app on top of a 205 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 3: country of ninety million people. 206 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: With it's multi ethnic, it's multi lingual. It's you've got a. 207 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: Like fifteen I think fifteen to twenty percent or Kurds. 208 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 3: You've got Zeries, You've got you've got Turkmen, you've got Persians. 209 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 3: I mean, you've got all these different groups and factions 210 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: within and and so so how do you cobble? How 211 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 3: do you This is what we didn't really think about 212 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: in Iraq, And I'm just going to say this, the 213 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: huge and really unforgivable mistake of Iraq was that, for 214 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: ideological reasons, the US government and the Coalition Provisional Authority 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: decided we have to eliminate all traces of the Bath Party, 216 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 3: which is effectively Sadamism. We have to get rid of 217 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: every you know, if you were like a low level 218 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: traffic cop member of the Bath Party, you can't work 219 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: in the new government. Well that was completely insane because 220 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 3: all the people with any training, any government connection, and 221 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: any sense of keeping order became our enemies overnight. And 222 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 3: that was how we got a huge insurgency and massive problems. 223 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: So I think that Trump realized. I certainly know Pete 224 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 3: Hegsath who served in Iraq, and as a friend of 225 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 3: yours and a friend of mine, I know he knows 226 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 3: that lesson. I really hope that it is able to endure, though, 227 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: because the enemy gets a vote in all of this, 228 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 3: and there will be moments, I think where it's really 229 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: tempting to not show just use the air power we have, 230 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: but to want to tip the scales even more, and 231 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 3: that means, you know, boots on the ground, and that's 232 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 3: what everyone I think in this country's so concerned about it. 233 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: Well, and and also I think one thing we're saying 234 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: with all of this, and then what will shift your 235 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: book your book in a moment, is you know President 236 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: Trump has really taken sort of an unconventional approach to 237 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: the mialy. Like Saudi Arabia was his first trip foreign 238 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: trip in twenty seventeen, twenty twenty, twenty twenty. That was 239 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: different than you know, past president at the Abraham Accords. 240 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Like he's really brought in like these Golf states into 241 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: the fold. He's not told some of these monarchies like 242 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: how to do their job, right, So it's like he's 243 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: just taken totally. And then now we're sort of saying 244 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: with the Golf Cooperation Council like put out this joint 245 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: statement against Iran, right Like, so he's really sort of 246 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: like built a coalition differently than past presidents have been 247 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: able to do in the Middle East, which I think 248 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: kind of helps with all of this. 249 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 2: But before we shift your. 250 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: Book real quick and you know, looking back at your 251 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: experience to the CIA, like tactically what we've seen with 252 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: the Maduro capture and then even just Iran, like it 253 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: really felt for four years under Joe Biden that we 254 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: were just like this pathetic wheat nation and now we're 255 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: seeing with like the military and the tactical and the 256 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: intelligence like it's badass, right, Like, yeah, touch on that 257 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: just like tactically what you've seen based on your experience 258 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: with the CIA, and then we'll get to your book 259 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: before we go. 260 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: I really believe that Trump's focus, or I should say 261 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 3: Trump's mantra of you can just do stuff is an 262 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: incredible revelation in foreign policy and intelligence circles. You can 263 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: actually just do the amazing thing with the United States 264 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 3: capabilities that you can do the things that you want 265 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: to do. You just have to have the resolve and 266 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 3: you have to be willing to take those risks politically. 267 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 2: And I can point to all range of operations. 268 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: I mean, you look at and now I'll call some 269 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: of these these are really in most well, in all 270 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 3: but one case, there're either Israeli or joint American Israeli operations. 271 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: But the Pager operation against Hesbelah to essentially decapitate Hesbolo 272 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 3: leadership by infiltrating their supply chain is one of the 273 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 3: most incredible intelligence operations of all time. And then you 274 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: pile on top of that the US and is Israel 275 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: striking Iran's nuclear facilities and dramatically setting them back and 276 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: degrading those capabilities and bringing in that bunker Buster not 277 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: losing a single plane, defeating all of the Russian, Chinese, 278 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 3: all the tech that the Iranians were able to buy 279 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 3: with their oil money. We defeated all of that, didn't 280 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: lose a single plane. Then you out, on top of 281 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 3: top of that, the Maduro capture operation, where we deployed 282 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: and Trump spoke about this, so it's known now a 283 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: never before seen or heard sonic weapon to help incapacitate the. 284 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: Bodyguards around Majuro. 285 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: He had dozens of Cuban trained bodyguards and to pull 286 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: off that operation without a single casital deep and then 287 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 3: this operation now of taking out along with Israel, the entirety, 288 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: really it seems of the Iranian leadership after we had 289 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: already hit their nuclear facilities, after we had already These 290 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: are tactical successes and I think have strategic implications that 291 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: are truly just way beyond what anybody outside of the 292 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: planning circles in the Pentagon the White House would have 293 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: thought were possible. 294 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: And it's giving a renewed sense of confidence. 295 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 3: It turns out being the most most powerful and most 296 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: capable country in the history of the planet has some advantages, 297 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 3: and Trump is willing to use them. 298 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: Got to take a quick break more at buck Sexton 299 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: on the other side, in your work on Jahadas indoctrination, 300 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: and we've written about how sort of these movements kind 301 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: of construct these moral binaries with a press ser versus 302 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: victim narratives to try to mobilize support. What we saw 303 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: with the Islamic Revolution and Iran in nineteen seventy nine 304 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: that these Iglamas work with the communists together. We're sort 305 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: of seeing that in our country now as well. Why 306 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: do they align and sort of walk us through that 307 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: a little bit? 308 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 3: Sure, it's the most basic and I do get into 309 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: this in Manufacturing Delusion, which is the book that I 310 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: certainly hope that your audience will go check and get 311 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: a copy of. Help me stay up high on that 312 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: New York Times bestseller list. There's a lot of research, 313 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: a lot of history. You'll learn a lot of cool 314 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: stuff in the book. And part of it is what 315 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: Lisa is talking about, which is these factions on the 316 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 3: left ideologically, how do they recruit people, how do they 317 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 3: indoctrinate people? But then also why is it that they're 318 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: willing to work together even though they can have very 319 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: different ends themselves for what they want to see in 320 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: a state, in a country. And that's because the enemy 321 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: of my enemy is my friend. I mean, it's an 322 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: old adage that is very applicable to what I would 323 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 3: call these anti civilizational elements. 324 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: And in Manufacturing Delusion, one. 325 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: Of the things that I try to to grapple with 326 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 3: is you have to see that the reason the reason 327 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: that jihadists go through a similar process in how they 328 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: convince people to blow themselves up, they want different things. Obviously, 329 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 3: in fact, they would despise the transgender community and they 330 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 3: would truly be bigoted against it. But to make somebody 331 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 3: show militantly trans that they're willing to engage in violence, 332 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: which we've seen now many times, these mass shootings with 333 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 3: trans individuals. The ideological brain mind control processes have similarities, 334 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 3: similarities that people should be aware of, tactical similarities. And 335 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 3: that's what I lay out in Manufacturing Plus that I 336 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 3: think is resonating with people so much because they're going, oh, 337 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 3: my gosh, he's right. Whether you're in a cell in 338 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 3: the gulag in the nineteen fifties or you're on a 339 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 3: college campus and you've used the wrong pronoun, why do 340 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: they insist on making you confess? Why do they insist 341 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 3: on your public humiliation. They could just expel you, or 342 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 3: they could just, you know, in the gulag obviously make 343 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 3: you disappear. It's because it's part of the control mechanism 344 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 3: to make you go through these processes of confession, of isolation, 345 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 3: of identity construction. And these are all, by the way, 346 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 3: chapters in the book in Manufacturing Delusion that when people 347 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: read them, they'll understand how these processes of coercing the 348 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 3: mind really function for any kind of radical And that's 349 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 3: why I think it's so important today, because Lisa, it's 350 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 3: the radicals in our own society and around the world 351 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 3: who pose the greatest threat. It is not climate change. 352 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: It is not you know, all the whales are going 353 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: to die, or the polar bears are going to drown, 354 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 3: or or you know, we're not going to have enough 355 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 3: racial justice or something. The worst thing in the world 356 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 3: is mass illusion and a state in the hands of 357 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 3: those who are diluted that they can then mobilize for 358 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: the purposes of war, of ethnic cleansing, of repression, any 359 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 3: number of things. And so that's why Manufacturing Delusion is 360 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: such an important book, and I really hope your audience 361 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 3: will do me the honor of picking up a copy. 362 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think with climate change, like you 363 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: get one chance at predicting doom and gloom, and then 364 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: when it doesn't happen, we ignore you after that. 365 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 2: But I don't think so, yeah you should. 366 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to ask you about I'm lumping these 367 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: together for the sake of time. But you write about 368 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: like with Stalin and Mao and sort of like the 369 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: collective reinforcement and that it's psychologically costly to speak out 370 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: or to dissent. 371 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: But now we have. 372 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: Social media and we saw like even with Black Lives 373 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: Matter people, I think it was like this, I don't remember, 374 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: I didn't do it or like COVID, right, So it's like, 375 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: now we have sort of social media sort of amplifying 376 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: that you're a bad person, or you're wrong, or you're 377 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: dangerous if you speak out against what's being sort of 378 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: like collectively pushed. So how does that sort of like 379 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: amplify regimes or governments or the ability to control society 380 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: when you know, now it's more visible if you're or 381 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: not you know, part of the collective. 382 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: It's that, Lisa, and it's even more because you're more visible. 383 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 3: But also the ability of the state to monitor, to track, 384 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 3: to try to hold you to account for wrong think, 385 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 3: as Orwell would have called it ability Big brothers technological capabilities. 386 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: And I think I think. 387 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 3: Orwell's Orwell's work in general is among the most important 388 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 3: of the twentieth and I think nineteen eighty four is 389 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 3: one of the most important books written in the English 390 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: language in the last one hundred years. And you look 391 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: at what Big Brother was capable of in his dystopian 392 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 3: future in that novel, versus what Big Brother is capable 393 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 3: of now we walk around, we have microphones all over 394 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 3: our own houses. We're typing our own thoughts into our smartphones. 395 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 3: We're sharing with big tech. We're sharing, therefore with governments 396 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 3: that have access to big tech data, what we're thinking, 397 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 3: and then we also expect it on the other side, 398 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 3: the outputs are going to reflect something, you know, whether 399 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: it's search or the video that comes up or whatever, 400 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 3: reflects something that is objective and true. As we know, 401 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 3: that's certainly not the case in China, which is the 402 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: second largest country in the world, the second most powerful 403 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 3: country in the world. 404 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 2: And in America. 405 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 3: If we aren't willing to be vigilant about maintaining that 406 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 3: intellectual freedom. It will disappear here too, when we certainly 407 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 3: saw that during COVID, which I mentioned in Manufacturing Delusion 408 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: as well. So I really hope people go pick up 409 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 3: a copy of Manufacturing Delusion how the Left uses brainwashing, 410 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 3: indoctrination of propaganda against you and my. 411 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: Dear friend li Sa Booth. You are the best. Thank 412 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: you so much for having me on your show. 413 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: Those are good friend Buck Sexton, Appreciate him for coming 414 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: on the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening 415 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week. 416 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: I also want to thank John, Cassie and my producer 417 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: for putting the show together. 418 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: Until next time.