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Speaker 1: Welcome back to cutting the distance. When it comes to

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Speaker 1: managing land and setting it up for white tail hunting,

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Speaker 1: there seems to be hundreds, if not thousands of guys

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Speaker 1: that choose from nowadays but shouldn't have proven hunting track

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Speaker 1: record be the most important thing that you consider before

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Speaker 1: choosing a land consultant, somebody that knows how to set

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Speaker 1: up for hunting well. Don Higgins may be the best

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Speaker 1: doing it currently and some may say the best to

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Speaker 1: ever do it, killing mature bucks year after year with

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Speaker 1: a few two inchineers sprinkled in the mix. His track

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Speaker 1: record speaks for itself, and that's one of the things

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Speaker 1: I like you know about Dawn, At least from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: he seems to be a humble man that has allowed

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Speaker 1: his track record to do the speaking and not necessarily

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Speaker 1: his own mouth down has quite the resume when it

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Speaker 1: comes to educating white to hunters. He is the host

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Speaker 1: of the Chasing Giants podcast. He is the author of

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Speaker 1: two books, Hunting Trophy white Tails in the Real World

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Speaker 1: in Real World white Tail Icons. He's the owner of

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Speaker 1: real world wildlife products that stems from his agricultural background.

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Speaker 1: In addition to all of this, Dawn continues to speak

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Speaker 1: at seminars around the country, and then in all of

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Speaker 1: his free time, he still runs a white tail consulting

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Speaker 1: service UM that continues to grow in demand with each

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Speaker 1: and every passing year with no further ado. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show, Dawn, Well, thanks for having me. Glad to

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Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, how's your season been. Oh it's been uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the word I'd want to

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Speaker 1: use is probably uh different. It's been different than any

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Speaker 1: season that I've ever experienced. And that's saying something after

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Speaker 1: forty six years of deer honey. But uh no, I've

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Speaker 1: got I've I've had some really nice bucks and range. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've I've passed three bucks that are really good. One

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Speaker 1: of them would have scored over one and uh got

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Speaker 1: all that on video. But uh, you know, I like

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Speaker 1: to old the story with these bucks and let him

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Speaker 1: get mature. And when I say mature, I'm talking six

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Speaker 1: years old. I know a lot of guys are saying

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Speaker 1: calling him mature at four. But so, I you know,

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Speaker 1: my season has been good. I haven't shot anything, but

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of really nice bucks that have

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Speaker 1: the potential to be super in another year. Or two. Good,

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Speaker 1: do you have any any time left in the stand

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Speaker 1: or things starting to wind down? Um with the tags

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Speaker 1: that you have? Well, I hope I still have some

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Speaker 1: time to think of it is my consulting business just

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Speaker 1: gets so busy starting about December one through the the

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Speaker 1: rest of the entire winter into spring until it greens

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Speaker 1: up that it doesn't leave me a whole lot of time.

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Speaker 1: But I'm hoping around the holidays and such that I

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Speaker 1: can find some time to get back in the tree.

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Speaker 1: Perfect Perfect Can you give the audience a quick rundown

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know who you are on you

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Speaker 1: know where you started and and kind of the quick

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Speaker 1: timeline to to where you're at now. Well, I actually

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Speaker 1: started as a freelance outdoor writer back in uh North

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Speaker 1: American Whitetail published my first article, and in the years since,

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Speaker 1: I've had literally hundreds of articles publishing just about every

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Speaker 1: major hunting magazine. Um. That led to me writing a book.

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Speaker 1: And also, you know, a lot of the readers of

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Speaker 1: those magazine articles, I think they recognized me as speaking

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Speaker 1: from experience instead of just repeating and regurgitating things I'd heard.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I did things a little different.

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Speaker 1: I kept I keep things simple, but but they work,

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Speaker 1: and I think the readers recognize that. And I started

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Speaker 1: getting calls from people asking me to look at their

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Speaker 1: properties and and you know, help them with their hunting success.

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Speaker 1: And so that led to my consulting business. And then

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Speaker 1: along the way, uh, you know, the whole land management

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Speaker 1: thing kind of exploded. I think it probably started about

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Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years go. Um, and you know, with my

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Speaker 1: agg background, I started a food plot seed company. Um,

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Speaker 1: this will be we're getting ready to start our fifteenth

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Speaker 1: year in business next year. But it's a company that's

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Speaker 1: just done fantastic and continues to grow as it has

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Speaker 1: every year for fifteen years. But uh so you can

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Speaker 1: see that I've got my hand and a lot of

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Speaker 1: different pots, but they've all got to do with white

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Speaker 1: tails and white tail land management. And it all started,

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Speaker 1: you know, back with those uh first magazine articles twenty

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Speaker 1: six years ago. Nice. Yeah, you you you touch on

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Speaker 1: something there about it's fairly simple. And you know we

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit before and and out west On

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Speaker 1: on the Elk education and Elk cunning education. You almost

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Speaker 1: feel guilty when you try to break down what you

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Speaker 1: really do and it. You know, we we add all

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Speaker 1: of this additional information to it, but it is when

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Speaker 1: you boil it down, it's a very simple recipe. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: and people, I think, want to make this monster out

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Speaker 1: of a mole hill and it's like, no, it really

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Speaker 1: is that simple. But you don't. You almost don't want

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Speaker 1: to insult the person by by telling them it's that simple,

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Speaker 1: because they're they're struggling to grasp it. And um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I picked up on you saying that it. You know,

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Speaker 1: white tail um hunting may be simple if if you

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Speaker 1: choose to make it that way. Yeah, I think, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of deer hunters that overcomplicated. They make

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Speaker 1: it way more difficult than it really is. And there's

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Speaker 1: some basic rules that you gotta follow, and I think

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Speaker 1: what happens is a lot of times deer hunters don't

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Speaker 1: follow those basic rules. And you know, one of them

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Speaker 1: is learning to play the wind. There's no no getting

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Speaker 1: around it. You either learn to play the wind when

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Speaker 1: you hunt these big bucks or you're not gonna be successful.

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Speaker 1: And there's nothing you can buy that's gonna help you. Sure,

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Speaker 1: there's products that are you know, made to control your

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Speaker 1: your odor, but do you realize how a mature box

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Speaker 1: using the wind, even if few is sent free, that

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Speaker 1: mature buck is maybe not going to come past your

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Speaker 1: stand or probably not going to come past your stand

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Speaker 1: if the conditions are not right for him to do

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Speaker 1: so safely. He's got to feel safer he's not doing it.

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Speaker 1: And it is really simple, but there's some basic things

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Speaker 1: that you absolutely have to nail or everything else doesn't

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Speaker 1: really matter. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense, and

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Speaker 1: we'll make some more comparisons down there. And I got

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Speaker 1: some questions for you on scent and you know, given

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Speaker 1: them a win a little bit um. But like every

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Speaker 1: Cutting the Distance podcast, we're gonna feel a few questions

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Speaker 1: um from our listeners. And if you want to submit

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Speaker 1: a question of your own, you can email us at

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Speaker 1: ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com. So the

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Speaker 1: first question we got, I'm trying to get account of

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Speaker 1: deer on my property, When and how should the census

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Speaker 1: be taken? And I'm gonna add something on that they didn't.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's going to be a little dependent on

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Speaker 1: region and kind of where you're at during the cycle.

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Speaker 1: But what's your answer to to one should people be

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Speaker 1: looking um to try to get a good count um,

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Speaker 1: you know, on on bucks and does on their property. Well,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, that's something that I don't deal with

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Speaker 1: a whole lot. And the reason for it is most

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Speaker 1: of the landowners that I'm consulting with I have smaller acreage.

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Speaker 1: And why smaller, I mean under a thousand acres, some

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Speaker 1: of them under a hundred acres, but um definitely under

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Speaker 1: a thousand acres for the most part. Now, I've done

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Speaker 1: a couple of bigger properties, and when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a property of you know, two or three or four

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Speaker 1: hundred acres, it doesn't matter what you do on that

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Speaker 1: property to try to influence the local herd. If your

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Speaker 1: neighbors aren't on board, it's not gonna work. And you

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Speaker 1: know you could if you've got an overpopulation a deer,

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Speaker 1: for example, you can shoot twenty five do on your farm,

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Speaker 1: and if your neighbors aren't helping you out, thirty more

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Speaker 1: are going to come from their farm and replace the

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Speaker 1: just shot and you're gaining nothing. So you know, and

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Speaker 1: most of the time it almost takes the stay game

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Speaker 1: agencies to set the regulations as far as has herd

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Speaker 1: management or herd control, and if the individual landowner really

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a whole lot he can do. And for

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Speaker 1: that reason, that's something that I just don't address with

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Speaker 1: my clients. Now, if I was like on some of

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Speaker 1: the bigger ranches, say down in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and

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Speaker 1: that part of the world, it would be a totally

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Speaker 1: different story. But those just aren't my clients and and

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Speaker 1: that's not my niche. If you will, okay, that makes

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Speaker 1: that makes a ton of sense. Um. The second question,

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Speaker 1: when boining from an elevated stand, where do you like

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Speaker 1: to aim at a dear? Does this changed on the

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Speaker 1: feedback you're getting from the buck head downlooking your direction

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Speaker 1: ears back, any of those things, but where are you

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Speaker 1: aiming from an elevated stand? Well, First of all, shot

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Speaker 1: selection is is absolutely critical. Um. I will only take

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Speaker 1: a broadside or slightly quartered away shot. Um. And when

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Speaker 1: I do that, you know I'm aiming for the offside shoulder,

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Speaker 1: so not the shoulder closest to me, but the the

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Speaker 1: far side shoulder. UM. I want my arrow to uh

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Speaker 1: and I only hunt with the bow, so I'm only

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Speaker 1: talking about bow honey. Um. I want my arrow to

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Speaker 1: to hit both lungs, and that's what I'm shooting for

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Speaker 1: a double lung hit. Um I'm aiming. It depends on

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Speaker 1: how close the deer is and how high I am,

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Speaker 1: but you know, typically I want that arrow about one

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Speaker 1: third of the way up that deer's body and uh,

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Speaker 1: right behind the shoulder piece if he's totally broadside. Now,

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Speaker 1: if he's quartered away, then i want it back a

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Speaker 1: little farther, and I'm aiming for that off shoulder. But

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Speaker 1: the double lung shot is the only shot that I

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Speaker 1: think is ethical. So with that, with that said, are

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Speaker 1: you you know, coming from from out west, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of our elk our mill dear don't tend

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Speaker 1: to jump. I say, there's there's always the exception, but

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Speaker 1: for the most part, they don't jump the string like

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Speaker 1: what like we've seen whitetail, you know, growing up on

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Speaker 1: watching all the TV show you know things duck eight

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Speaker 1: ten inches. So you're not aiming any lower than the

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Speaker 1: vital shots you're you know, you're still aiming at that

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Speaker 1: bottom third to make or do you account for some

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Speaker 1: sort of duck um And I don't. I'm aiming for

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Speaker 1: that bottom third. But I also am not a proponent

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Speaker 1: of long shots, to be honest, it's almost I can't

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Speaker 1: even remember the last time I shot over thirty yards,

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Speaker 1: and most of my shots are twenty and under. The

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Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty yard range is where I'm shooting, so, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm aiming at that lower third of the

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Speaker 1: body and I'm getting a good hit and passed through

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Speaker 1: and and clean kills you know, almost every time. So

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Speaker 1: you know shot selection is the key. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to shoot my dear eight yards

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Speaker 1: and you know by that time, whether they heard it

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Speaker 1: or not, they don't have near the time to move,

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Speaker 1: and you know your hair is gonna hit right where

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Speaker 1: you ended it too, So um perfect. Thanks for answering

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Speaker 1: those once again. If you have any questions for us

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Speaker 1: here or my guests at Cutting the Distance, please email

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Speaker 1: us or message us at ct D at Phelps Game

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Speaker 1: Calls dot com. So on today's episode, I want to

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Speaker 1: dive into hunting white tail bucks and maybe more specifically,

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Speaker 1: what it takes to grow and hunt the next level bucks,

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Speaker 1: as well as making sure you have mature bucks kind

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Speaker 1: of in the pipeline coming up. I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of Western hunting translates to white tails and its

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Speaker 1: simplest form Hunting is always going to be broken down

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Speaker 1: into things I can control, things I have an effect on,

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Speaker 1: and then things that are out of my control. And

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Speaker 1: with within those, I tend to focus on things we

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Speaker 1: can control. And then what I'm hoping to get from

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Speaker 1: Dawn today is is dive into some of those things

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Speaker 1: where through decision making, we can at least predict or

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Speaker 1: at least limit the variables of those things out of

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Speaker 1: our control. UM when it comes white to hunting, and

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Speaker 1: that's I'm very you know, Donna, I've got an engineering

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Speaker 1: background background. I break things down into like it's simplest

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Speaker 1: form and then start to categorize. So as an engineer,

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Speaker 1: I you know, I want things you know in their

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Speaker 1: coffers like I wanted to make sense, and so that's

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Speaker 1: everything out west. It's like, all right, I can control this,

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Speaker 1: I can have an effect on this, and then there's

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Speaker 1: some things that are out of my control as far

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Speaker 1: as like you know, where they're gonna be. But by

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Speaker 1: putting myself in a place where we're trying to, you know, UM,

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Speaker 1: limit those variables that are out of our control. UM.

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Speaker 1: As we talked earlier, I'm someone that's new to the

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Speaker 1: you know, someone new to the white tail game. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then it's a little daunting. As I got home

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Speaker 1: from this past time, you know, I jump on the internet,

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Speaker 1: I'm watching YouTube, I'm reading articles, and it's very, very

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Speaker 1: tough to try to figure out what information is good

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Speaker 1: and proven and then what may have very good supporting

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Speaker 1: arguments but may not work or actually make your hunting

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Speaker 1: area or you're hunting property worse. UM. And so one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I was drawn and really wanted to

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Speaker 1: bring you on the podcast is you weren't afraid to

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Speaker 1: say you know that some ideas could be bad, you

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Speaker 1: know when uh, you know, and I really like that. UM.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm the same way. I'm not afraid to say

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Speaker 1: that I think that's a bad idea and you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: do that. Um. When it comes to hunting tactics and techniques. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I want to know, you know, through through all

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Speaker 1: of your experiences you mentioned earlier forty two years, I

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Speaker 1: want to know if something you know, how many times

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Speaker 1: something worked out of a hundred and and guess what,

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Speaker 1: even better, if you've seen or did something a thousand times,

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Speaker 1: how many times did it work in your favor? How

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Speaker 1: many times didn't so you can start to put a

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Speaker 1: plan together. Um. So I'm gonna pick your brain a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I've got a series of questions and we'll

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Speaker 1: just kind of walk through them, um and see what

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Speaker 1: you have to say. Okay, Um, so pretty cliche. Um,

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious statement here, But we all know when it

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Speaker 1: comes to hunting, we can only kill what we can see.

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Speaker 1: And this may be one of the biggest crucks it

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Speaker 1: seems like as a white tail hunter. Um, I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to learn very quickly. The properties we were hunting had

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Speaker 1: big deer on cameras at night, and we were having

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Speaker 1: a heck of a time finding him during the day

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Speaker 1: because they just weren't They didn't seem to be moving.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we were missing them. But um, is there a

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Speaker 1: best manage a practice to make sure you're seeing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the majority of your mature deer in the daylight? Can

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Speaker 1: you affect that or is that something that's naturally inherent

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Speaker 1: and just kind of built into a deer or can

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Speaker 1: you design your property, um, you know, to to to

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Speaker 1: help out in that situation for seeing mature bucks in

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Speaker 1: the daylight. Well, I mean that's a great question and

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Speaker 1: I address it with every single client that I meet

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Speaker 1: with and and you've got to hunt mature deer on

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Speaker 1: the property they spend their daylight hours on, and that

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Speaker 1: means you've got to hunt them where they're bad. So

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Speaker 1: when I meet with a client, the first thing I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking at his property is I'm figuring out

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Speaker 1: what do we gotta do to get the local bucks

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Speaker 1: to bed on this property. And most deer hunters, I

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Speaker 1: mean the vast majority of deer hunters, put way too

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Speaker 1: much pressure on their property. The bucks are trying to kill,

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Speaker 1: they bump them off and they don't have a chance.

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Speaker 1: And I tell my clients all the time, if you

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Speaker 1: are one property over from where a deer beds, so

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Speaker 1: if he's bedding right across the line on the neighbor,

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Speaker 1: your odds of killing that deer ten percent what they

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Speaker 1: are if you're on the same property. So you know,

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Speaker 1: right out of the gate, you gotta be hunting them

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Speaker 1: on the properties where they bed. Okay, now, um, you

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Speaker 1: know you're you're a big proponent of providing a sanctuary.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you what if the betting is that sanctuary?

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Speaker 1: Do you consider the betting the sanctuary? And if so,

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Speaker 1: how much pressure will you be willing to put on

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Speaker 1: that betting area or getting as close to the betting

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Speaker 1: and maybe away from their feet as possible so that

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Speaker 1: you can catch them in the daylight. Yeah, I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge proponent of sanctuaries. In fact, I've said many times,

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Speaker 1: if I had a five hundred acre property, fifty of

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Speaker 1: it would be a sanctuary, I would never go into.

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Speaker 1: Fifty of it would be food plots, and I'd hunt

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Speaker 1: the edge. So um, you know, I never go into

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Speaker 1: the betting cover of the sanctuary per se, but I'm

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Speaker 1: always hunting on the edge of it, and it's always

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Speaker 1: the down wind edge. So my sin is blowing out

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Speaker 1: of that sanctuary and I'm on that down wind side.

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Speaker 1: It's just a perfect place to be when those bucks

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Speaker 1: are cruising. Um, if they feel comfortable, they think that

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Speaker 1: sanctuary is the safe zone. They've never encountered humans there,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna be on their feet a lot more daylight hours,

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Speaker 1: and when they are, they want to be on that

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Speaker 1: down wind edge because then they can smell all that cover.

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Speaker 1: They can detect you know, a hot dough or you

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Speaker 1: know danger as well, So it works perfect. I've killed

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Speaker 1: numerous bucks this way, but having an undisturbed sanctuary on

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Speaker 1: your property and and hunting it properly on the down

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Speaker 1: wind edge at all times is absolutely key to a

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Speaker 1: lot of my success. So another way to pose this question,

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Speaker 1: if you were to look at a piece of property

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Speaker 1: and and figure out where the deer like the bed,

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Speaker 1: is it a good strategy to try to put some

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Speaker 1: food plots with in close proximity to it. As you've mentioned,

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Speaker 1: not disturbed their betty, their sanctuary. But but it's getting

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Speaker 1: that food or or even minor food sources. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're smaller plots. Um, is that a good strategy to

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Speaker 1: get those deer on their feet and maybe catching before

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Speaker 1: they're you know, on their way to big agg later

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Speaker 1: in the night, um or something like it would we're

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Speaker 1: just getting you know, that food a little closer to

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Speaker 1: bed kind of assistant in daylight, you know, well, as

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Speaker 1: long as that food is not within the bedding cover,

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Speaker 1: if it's out on the edge. Yeah, that's a great strategy. M.

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Speaker 1: I've I've seen I don't know how many UH consultants

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Speaker 1: or white tail habitat so called experts claim, for example, um,

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Speaker 1: when you plant switch grass that you should have you know,

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Speaker 1: clover and forbes and things in there for the deer

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Speaker 1: to eat. You don't want just a monoculture of switch grass,

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Speaker 1: you want to you want some food in there for

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Speaker 1: him too. Well. I totally disagree with that. If a

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Speaker 1: buck on my property wants to eat, I don't want

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Speaker 1: him to just stand up in his bed and drop

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Speaker 1: his head and start feeding. I want to force that

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Speaker 1: dear to have to move from his bed to his food.

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Speaker 1: And that movement is what makes him killable. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: the pattern we're hunting. If he doesn't have to move, well,

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Speaker 1: he's way harder to kill. Yeah, and that that makes

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Speaker 1: a ton of sense. Um, you know, why would you

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Speaker 1: want that dear to get up out of his bed

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Speaker 1: eat there without having to come where he's shootable, Because

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to set a stand or

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Speaker 1: a very you know, a very effective stand necessarily in

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Speaker 1: that switch grass or you know you want that to

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Speaker 1: be there. You know there their security, they're sanctuary, somewhere

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Speaker 1: where they feel safe. And you know it just seems,

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Speaker 1: you know, common sense says, don't don't let him eat

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Speaker 1: in there, just let him bed in there, or or

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Speaker 1: use it for security. Um, but to you and I,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it is to some people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that it's one of the things we use.

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Speaker 1: We don't like to hunt elk necessarily in the center

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Speaker 1: of their food. We don't like to hunt elk in

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Speaker 1: their bedding area. We will at times go into their

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Speaker 1: bedding area, especially late in the hunt. We're running out

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Speaker 1: of time and we're on public ground. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not we we don't got the whole, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not a private, chunk of private so we will go

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Speaker 1: in there. But a lot of times we're trying to

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. Is whether people want to draw

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Speaker 1: similarities or not, we're really trying to hunt them closer

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Speaker 1: to their you know, their bet their food in the morning,

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Speaker 1: and then we're trying to hunt them a little closer

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Speaker 1: to their bed in the evening, and we're doing something

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Speaker 1: real similar. Um. One last question on you know, getting

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Speaker 1: deer in daylight? Is it your opinion? And I've I've

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Speaker 1: tracked this, I've I've seen you answer this before. Maybe that,

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Speaker 1: uh dear, Maybe the best pattern you can put on

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Speaker 1: a deer is what they did the year before. If

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Speaker 1: you've got good indicators on that deer as far as

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Speaker 1: you know, and some of the talk. You know, the

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Speaker 1: the examples that you've shared and other people have shared

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Speaker 1: is it's almost to the day. Um, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: that deer will start to show up on a property,

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Speaker 1: or that deal deer will start to show in the daylight. Um.

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Speaker 1: Is that some of the most valuable information you use

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Speaker 1: when you know, if if that deer showing similar patterns

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Speaker 1: from year to year, that you're gonna base will you

390
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: base a hunt on that that similar pattern? Absolutely? You know.

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Speaker 1: I was the first one to write about this back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and three. I wrote an article for

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Speaker 1: North American Whitetail magazine titled same time, Same Place, And

394
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Speaker 1: to that point, I've never heard anybody talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Now it's pretty well accepted today. A lot of people

396
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Speaker 1: have wrote about it and talked about it, made videos

397
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Speaker 1: about it. But there is an uncanny pattern among mature

398
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Speaker 1: bucks to show up at this same time at the

399
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Speaker 1: same place year after year. And I'm talking down to

400
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Speaker 1: within about a forty eight hour period. So you know,

401
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot of times these white tail box will will

402
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Speaker 1: spend their summers and bachelor groups in one location and

403
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Speaker 1: then you know, as fall draws near and they start

404
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 1: shedding their velvet and a testosterone levels start rising, those

405
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: bachelor groups will break up and those bucks will shift

406
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Speaker 1: to their fall range and they will move sometimes, you know, miles.

407
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Speaker 1: And what I've found is when those bucks shift to

408
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Speaker 1: that fall range, it's almost to the day, a year

409
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Speaker 1: after year, to the day, they'll show up on a

410
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Speaker 1: property where they haven't been all summer. Um. There was

411
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Speaker 1: a buck that I shot in uh and when was it? Uh?

412
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Speaker 1: It's a buck that I had watched grow up for

413
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Speaker 1: six years and I watched him since he was a

414
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Speaker 1: year and a half old. Is a year and a

415
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Speaker 1: half full buck. He had six points on each side,

416
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Speaker 1: just a little tiny twelve point rack. But I kept

417
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Speaker 1: track of him, and I thought he might have a

418
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Speaker 1: chance to hit two hundred, and I just kept walking

419
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Speaker 1: away from the opportunity to hunt him. And during that

420
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 1: six years that I watched him grow up, I hit

421
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: on a pattern that this buck was showing up on

422
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 1: this one property I had permission to hunt about the

423
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Speaker 1: first time he would show up for the entire year.

424
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Speaker 1: The first date he would show up would be about

425
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Speaker 1: November six and the last day he would be there

426
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Speaker 1: would be about November twenty. And what he was doing

427
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 1: was he was. There was a lot of doughs bedding

428
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: on that property, and this buck was showing up to

429
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, find a hot dough, checking up that dough

430
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: group out, and you know, I had him down to

431
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: a t. And so the year I decided to kill him,

432
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: when he was six and a half years old, I

433
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: had my stands ready and I knew, don't even go

434
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 1: in there and hunt. Don't put any pressure on that

435
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: property until November six. Well, November six rolls around. I

436
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: had two stands on that property, and I needed very

437
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: specific winds to hunt those stands. November six rolls around.

438
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: The winds wrong, I can't hunt. November seven, the wind's wrong,

439
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: I can't hunt. November eight. Finally, the wind was right.

440
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: I go in there. The first morning that I ever

441
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: hunted for that deer, I killed him. And uh and

442
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, I have nine o'clock and that first morning,

443
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: six years I watched that buck and then kill him

444
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: on the very first hunt, same time, same place. I

445
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: knew when he was gonna be there. That trail camera

446
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: history is so important when I'm chasing these big deer.

447
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: Trail cameras have almost made it easy. Yeah, yeah, it's

448
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: it's nice to have those choke cameras to build those

449
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: patterns and uh, you know, really really put the variables

450
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: or the unknowns or the things working against yet you know,

451
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: at least you can get a solid plan on those

452
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: and then let the wind. Like you said, the wind

453
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: was the variable on that one. You just had to

454
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: wait for the right wind and then that was the

455
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: only one you're really having to play. So um, yeah,

456
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: makes a ton of sense. So my next question, Um,

457
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of information about you know, creating betting

458
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: areas and figuring out where the does like the bed

459
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: and the bucks need to bed behind them according to

460
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: food and you know you've been Um, I hope not,

461
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: I hope I don't miss quote you here, but you

462
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: know you've you've said to allow them to bed where

463
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: they want and don't put the pressure on them. No

464
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: need to go in there and make betting they're gonna

465
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: be there. Um. With that said, what do you if

466
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: you're building a property and say you don't have the

467
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: timber or you do have the timber, what would you

468
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: say the preferred betting is if you were going to

469
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: go in and work over a property, are you trying

470
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: to create timber betting? Are you trying to create crp uh?

471
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: You know betting? Um? You know? Are they always gonna

472
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: bed behind the does? Can you give us a little

473
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: bit on if you're gonna build perfect beds? You know,

474
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: are you gonna go into hinge cut um? Like? Where

475
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: do big mature bucks like to hang out and feel secure?

476
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: It boils down to one thing, freedom of human intrusion.

477
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: They would rather bet in a wide open woods with

478
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: no cover whatsoever. If there's no human activity in there,

479
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: then they would the bed in the thickest, nastiest place

480
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: they could find if it's overrun with human pressure. UM.

481
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: I totally totally disagree, and I got all kinds of

482
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: firsthand experience to back it up. This idea that the

483
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: bucks are gonna bed here and the does are gonna

484
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: bed in front of them and all this nonsense. It's

485
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: it's total garbage. It doesn't work that way. People try

486
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: to make it way more complicated than it really is.

487
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: It boils down to freedom of human intrusion. Now you

488
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: asked about the type of cover, Well, I look at

489
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: betting cover on the property that I'm managing or I'm

490
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: developing a plan for um, the same way I do

491
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: the food sources diversity. I want as many different food

492
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: sources on the property as I can get, and I

493
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: want as many different kinds of betting cover. Also, I

494
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: want diversity. I want some switch grass. I want some

495
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: you know, thick second growth. I want some mature timber

496
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: with a really thick understory. I just want diversity. And

497
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: the reason for that is I've noticed on my own

498
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: farm that there are certain individual bucks that will prefer

499
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: different types of betting cover. For example, I've got bucks,

500
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: and I've had mature bucks on my farm that they

501
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: preferred to bed in the switch grass, and day after

502
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: day after day, you could just about count on those

503
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: deer in the afternoon evening coming out of the switch grass.

504
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: That's where they would bed day after day. And other

505
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: mature bucks they always wanted to bed in the wooded cover.

506
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: So I think diversity is key. And if you think

507
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: of it from a land management standpoint, um talk about diversity.

508
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: Let's say you're the only guy in the neighborhood who

509
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: has a big switch grass patch on your farm and

510
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: one of those bucks comes alonge that likes to bed

511
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: in the switch grass. Well, guess what he's betting on

512
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: your place day after day after day. That's why diversity

513
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: is so important, so that you can kind of um,

514
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: you know, curtail your farm or design your farm for

515
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: every buck. You're not just trying to accommodate those bucks

516
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: that that like the switch grass. You're also trying to

517
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: accommodate the ones that like the wooded cover. So diversity

518
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: is key, but it really boils down to human intrusion

519
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: or freedom of human intrusion. That's what a mature buck demands.

520
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: He's not gonna put up with it. I'm gonna talk

521
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: a little bit later about the sanctuary, but I have

522
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: to ask the question just why you talked about human

523
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: presence and you I think you know, if people go

524
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: back and watch material, you probably said it a thousand times,

525
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: if not more, which you know, I've always said you

526
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: hear you hear something more than three times, it's important

527
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: by the guy talking about it. And so you know,

528
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: obviously sanctuary is very very important. But to a you know,

529
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: when you say no human intrusion, is that zero? Is

530
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: that checking your trail cameras three times? Is that you

531
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: can ride your your you know, a fourler trail along

532
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: the edge of it a couple of times a year,

533
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: like the definition of you know, no human intrusion or

534
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: is it just one of those things where the more

535
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: the better or does it have to be you know,

536
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: you know, I guess another way to phrase this is

537
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: what will a big buck let you get away with? Well,

538
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: they're all individuals, and one will let you get away

539
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: with a lot and the other one nothing. And a

540
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: good example that's trail cameras. You know, one buck, he'll

541
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: walk in front of a trail camera and he'll pose

542
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: day after day after day, and you get dozens of

543
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: pictures of him. Another buck here, you get his picture

544
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: one time on a trail camera and boom, he's gone.

545
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: He's not coming past that camera ever again. UM. With

546
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: betting cover or a sanctuary, when I say zero, I

547
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: mean zero. I mean I don't have trail cameras inside

548
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: the sanctuary. UM, I don't have paths for four wheelers

549
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: or anything in the sanctuary. Uh. The closest I get

550
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: to the sanctuary is hunting the edge of it. As

551
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: far as going into it, there's only three times I'll

552
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: go into it. One is to do habitat work in

553
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: the off season. Once the season is closed in the

554
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: winter before spring green up. I will sometimes go in

555
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: if if I need to thicken things up, you know,

556
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: I'll go into chainsaw whatever I need to do to

557
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: maintain good Habitat the other times, if I shoot a

558
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: deer and he runs into sanctuary, well obviously I'm gonna

559
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: go get him as to retrieve a deer. And the

560
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: third time is one day every spring, and one day

561
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: I go into my sanctuary to look for ship antlers.

562
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: And when I go, I usually take my grandson's and

563
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: son in law and daughter they go along. Um. Sometimes

564
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: a couple of friends will go along and we do

565
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: the ship antler one time. We don't drag it out.

566
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: We don't go back three or four times. It's like

567
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: one day we go in, we cover it all, we

568
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: get out, and we stay out. But from the time

569
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: that things green up in spring, stay around the April

570
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: one or so, through the entire summer and through the

571
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: entire hunting season, nobody's in the sanctuary, nobody for anything.

572
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: Okay that that that clears it up. So sanctuary is

573
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: absolutely you know, as close to zero as possible with

574
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: with three exceptions. Um yeah, so, so no human presence.

575
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: Um all right, uh. You you've been quoted many times.

576
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: You all, you said it earlier in this one, you know,

577
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: on the on the November six Buck when we're trying

578
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: to when we're trying to put together patterns, um. You

579
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: know you you you typically only need two to three

580
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: days to go in and kill your target. Buck. Um.

581
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: With that said, do you have a preferred time to

582
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: be in the stand? Would you rather go in pre

583
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, pre rut um, you know, in the lockdown

584
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: phase post rut um, or are you looking for whether

585
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: it's something else determining when you're gonna be in that

586
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: stand you know, cold fronts um rut um you know

587
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: there some people have said they're more patternable in the

588
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: pre rut, Like when do you like to be in

589
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: the stand when you get the right conditions? Well, the

590
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: rut is absolutely my least favorite time to hunt. In

591
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: the rut. If you kill a giant in the rut,

592
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: there is more luck involved than anything, and I want

593
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: to kill him on purpose. I guess I'm not that lucky,

594
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: So I've got to work and put the odds in

595
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: my favor. And you know, I'm fine with pre rut.

596
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: That's a great time, Um. Early season right out of

597
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: the gate. If you've got those bucks coming to a

598
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: food source and they're undisturbed, that's a great time to

599
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: kill a giant um. You know, the end of October,

600
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: when they're starting to to hit scrapes, that's a good time.

601
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: But you know, after about oh say, the fifth or

602
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: so of November, they become pretty tough. Now, I say

603
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: that my favorite day, if I had to pick a

604
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: favorite day of the entire season, it would be November seven,

605
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: simply because those bucks are on their feet so much. Um.

606
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: The dose aren't quite in heat yet, and those bucks

607
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: are covering a lot of territory looking for him. But

608
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: to be honest, if I had to pick the best

609
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: time to kill, I'm mature buck on purpose, a one

610
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: particular buck that you've got your eye on to kill

611
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: him on purpose. The best time to do it is

612
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: in the late season, during a brutal cold spell and

613
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: on an afternoon hunt, because in those conditions there's no

614
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: such thing as a nocturnal buck. When it gets down

615
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: to zero, those bucks got a feed to stay alive,

616
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: and every afternoon, an hour before dark, they're on their

617
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,239
Speaker 1: feet and they're headed to the food or they're in

618
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: this movie. By that time, that is the best time

619
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: to catch him mature buck on his feet, because I'm

620
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: not talking about one buck, I'm talking every buck in

621
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: the area during those conditions are on their feet feeting. Yeah.

622
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: And um, we we noticed that this year on that

623
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: White Toil hunt. We had we had good intentions of

624
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: being there from October November five. Um, I drew a

625
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: big bull tag and things schedules got mixed around and

626
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: we couldn't get out there until November tenth, and we

627
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: hunt until you know, we had planned November ten, and

628
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: it was an awesome time to be in the woods,

629
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: not such an awesome time to figure out where all

630
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: the deer had been that had been on cameras the

631
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: entire time. And then when we did see a big buck,

632
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times he was running, you know, a

633
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: hundred twenty yards away and you had no control over

634
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: getting getting him to go on the path. He had

635
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: been going for the you know, three months ahead of that.

636
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: So we learned really quick that you know, lockdown stage

637
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: whatever people want to call the peak r It was

638
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: just like he doesn't respond to a call, he doesn't

639
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: look this way, he doesn't respond to rattling there's nothing

640
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: you can do to get him off that dough. And

641
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: so you you became an observer, um of the white

642
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: tail at that point, not a hunter of them. Um.

643
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: It seemed like at times, um, yeah, where the week

644
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: before they had great success. You know, the bucks that

645
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: they knew were there, they had on cameras coming to

646
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: certain areas. Um, you know, they get a little bit

647
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: of that pre red you know, bucks on their feet

648
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: a little more, starting to cruise a little more, get

649
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: a little more confident. And they seemed to do really

650
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: well that those ten days before we had out there.

651
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, they all seem to be on board

652
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: with that as well. Um. Moving on to weather. Um,

653
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: you know it includes all kinds of variables we've got

654
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: When people talk about weather, Um, you know, what's the

655
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: temperature gonna be. What's the precept or we getting rain

656
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: or snow based on the temperature? Um, you know, barometric

657
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: pressure rising, um, you know dropping, um, you know the

658
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: wind and so on. And then to complicate all of that,

659
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: you've got you know how those factors change within a

660
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: set amount of time. So the temperature is thirty two,

661
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: but it's dropping from sixty is important versus oh the temperatures.

662
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: You know, thirty two dropping from thirty four. It's not

663
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: as big as wings. So you have these factors, but

664
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: then you also have how those factors are changing with

665
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: the set amount of time. Um. So all of those factors.

666
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: I've heard you say it multiple times. You know weather

667
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: affects your decision. But what what weather are you looking for?

668
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: What are you looking for as far as temperature pre sip,

669
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, barometric pressure, wind, you know all of those things.

670
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: I know the answers, but I'm kind of you know,

671
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: I know what your answer is, but if you can

672
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: kind of kind of lead into what you're looking for,

673
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: you know, from an ideal weather standpoint, Well, I want

674
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: a cold front. Um, I want that cold front. For example,

675
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: last year, we had a cold front that the temperature

676
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: was had been twenty degrees above normal and then the

677
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: cold front come through and it just dropped those temperatures

678
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: to about normal. Well, that ain't much of a cold front.

679
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: I want that cold front to come through and drop

680
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: the temperatures below normal for that time of year by

681
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: at least ten degrees or more, and that that will

682
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 1: really affect your movement. I want the barometer to be rising. Um.

683
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: If you can get over thirty, that's fantastic. Um. At

684
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: the same time that weather is coming through. Um. I

685
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: like those fronts that come with east winds. For some reason,

686
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: I've just had phenomenal success, honey, east winds. Those east

687
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: winds almost always accompany a weather front. They don't just happen.

688
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: So you know, I've had success on the front end

689
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: and the back end of the front. They're all just

690
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: a little bit different. But it needs to drop the

691
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: temperature at least ten degrees below what would be considered

692
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: normal for that time of the year in that area. Okay,

693
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: so you don't necessarily care about a twenty degree temperature

694
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: swing if it's only getting you back to normal. You're

695
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: looking for a temperature swing that gets you below normal.

696
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: And then at that point it could be maybe a

697
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: ten fifteen degree temperature switch. But at least it's getting

698
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: colder than, uh than the normal. It's not just Now,

699
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: would you look at something the example you gave where

700
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: you are getting a change in temperature, does that not

701
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: necessarily equate to good hunting. It's gonna it's gonna obviously

702
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: be better than maybe what you had during the warm spell,

703
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: but it's not going to be that exceptional switch, right. Yeah,

704
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: if the temperture drops twenty degrees and it had been

705
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: twenty degrees above normal and it drops you down to normal,

706
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: well the deer activity is definitely going to be better

707
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: than it had been, but it's still not gonna be

708
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: what it could be if it was normal and then

709
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: drop ten degrees. Um, I would rather hunt that cold front.

710
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: The rain or snow affect your decision to be in

711
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: a tree positive negatively heavy rain will keep me out,

712
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: and that's more about the blood trail than anything. Uh.

713
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: I don't want to take a chance on losing a deer.

714
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: And you know, if it's heavy rain, well you know

715
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: who'd likes to sit out there and get soaked anyway?

716
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: But I don't mind a really light rain. I really

717
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: like when it's one of those overcast November days and

718
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: um you get some sleep, you know, just a little

719
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: bit of sleep. That first kind of really winter cold

720
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: front moves through, and um, I just love that kind

721
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: of condition. Yeah. I think that's maybe precipitation might be

722
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: the one factor on why I don't like hunting black

723
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: tails out here anymore, because my dad doesn't even get

724
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: excited until the winds forty mile straight sideways and you

725
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: can't hold your eyes, you know, eyes open, and that's

726
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: the time our blacktails move. And and it's like, yeah,

727
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm, I'm with you. I don't necessarily want to

728
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: be out they're um getting soaked. Um you know what

729
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: why I'm hunting now if it if it's good, I'd

730
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: be out there. But similar to to what you said,

731
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, your blood trails, you always gotta worry about that, um,

732
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: you know, and no matter how good a shot you you,

733
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: you may be at risk and not finding them. So

734
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: um and then wind absolutely yeah. In fact, this this season,

735
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: I we had some really windy days. And you know,

736
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: I run a series of cameras. I've got about fifty

737
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: trail cameras and um a dozen of those are cell cameras.

738
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: So I know, without a doubt, with that many cameras

739
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: on that on different properties, when the deer moving or

740
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: they're not moving, I know it because when they're moving,

741
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: my phone's lightening up with those cell cameras going off.

742
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: When they're not moving, my phone is dead. And the

743
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: interesting thing this year is I really paid close attention

744
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: and uh on the days that that was dead calm,

745
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: the deer activity was dead as well, and I came

746
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: to the conclusion. Now, I just came to it this season. Um.

747
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: You know, I'm always learning, just like everybody else. I

748
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: don't know at all and always trying to get better.

749
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: But I just figured out this season that on those

750
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: windy days, that that's a great time to hunt, just

751
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: like you were saying your dad last time, when it's

752
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: forty mile an hour. I'll tell you what. My cameras

753
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: were lightening up when the wind was thirty miles an hour,

754
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: and uh, the dead calm days, the cameras were dead. Huh, yeah,

755
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: that's I know where we hunted. You know in Kansas.

756
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: They they don't like being out at all. If there's

757
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: no wind. There's like the deer movement almost you know,

758
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: goes down to nothing on those days. Um, at least

759
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: from their experience, at least you know where where their stands. Right,

760
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: Maybe they're moving somewhere else, but um, not where they

761
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: want them to be when there's no wind. Um, they

762
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: expect to have the wind. They they use that for

763
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, for their safety. And if there's no win,

764
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: they're just gonna sit still a little longer. Yah. I

765
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: agree with that a hundred percent. I had that point

766
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: driven home this season. What's your opinion on the second rut?

767
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: I know what it is, but then, uh, do you

768
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: believe that those younger fawns, um, your legs will run

769
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: later and so it's just one long, continuous rut or

770
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: do you not believe you know, in any of that

771
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: and and you know the right it happens in the

772
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: middle of November. Well that I think outdoor writers, me

773
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: being one, UM have kind of you know, we're we're

774
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: always looking to coin terms to you know, sell articles

775
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: and gain attention. At least that was the way it

776
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: was before the Internet became so prominent. And I think

777
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: today these guys that have blogs or videos on online

778
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: YouTube channels, they're always looking for terms they can coin,

779
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: like the dough factory for example. Um, the second rut

780
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 1: was coined by outdoor writers, I don't know, thirty forty

781
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: years ago, and I think that people just don't understand

782
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: how the rut actually plays out, and it plays out

783
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: the same every year. You you've got if you think

784
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: of those does coming into heat in a bell shaped curve,

785
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: you got that period where it peaks where there's the

786
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: most of them in heat, and then towards the end

787
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: of November it tapers off. Well, doe fons are not

788
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: going to come into heat, you know, exactly thirty days

789
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: after the the mature does. It just don't happen like that.

790
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: Doe funds coming to heat based on their body weight

791
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: when they get about eighty pounds, are coming into heat,

792
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: and that the in fact, the majority, in my opinion,

793
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: the majority of doe fons are bred in January. There's

794
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: some bread in February and even later, but I think

795
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: the majority of do fons that get bred their first year, Now,

796
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: some of them don't get bread that first year because

797
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: they never achieved the body size to bring them into

798
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, sexual maturity and into heat. But the majority

799
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: of do fons that come into heat and do get

800
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: bread that first year are gonna get bread in January.

801
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: But it's not gonna be like a certain week in

802
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: January or anything like that. It's just gonna be you know,

803
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: here and there, and when it happens, you know, the

804
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: bucks are on top of it. They're gonna take advantage

805
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: of it. Um. But that's nothing that you can mark

806
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: on the calendar. The other the other thing that the

807
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: whole second red idea a false. Um. Part of that theory,

808
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: if you will, is they promote the idea that during

809
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: that peak breeding season, some does don't get bread on

810
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: their first estra cycle. Well, I believe that the number

811
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: of dose that don't get bread on their first estra

812
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: cycle is so minuscule. I mean it's probably not one

813
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: in a thousand dough. Um. Every buck in the woods

814
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: is capable of breeding a dough, including a lot of

815
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: button bucks. If a dough comes in heat, she's gonna

816
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: have the attention of bucks and she's gonna get bread

817
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 1: by at least one, if not ten, different bucks. She's

818
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: gonna get bread if she comes into heat. Now, you know,

819
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: I think there's uh I had a research heard of

820
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: captive white tails for twenty five years, so I got

821
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: to see a lot of this stuff firsthand in a

822
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: captive setting um where it was a lot easier to observe.

823
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: And I think there's some individual does that are gonna

824
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: come in heat on about the same day every year.

825
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: So if a doe comes in heat on November fourteenth

826
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: this year, next year, she's probably coming in heat on

827
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: the fourteenth, if not the thirteenth of the fifteenth within

828
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, she's coming into heat at the same time.

829
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: And the idea that they're not getting bread is just

830
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: I think it's just total garbage. Got you. No, that

831
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: makes that makes a ton of sense. And you know

832
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: you've got the you've got the experience and the you know,

833
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: the the observation to to support that. Um, so a

834
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: few things. I don't want to dwell on these ones

835
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: for too long, UM, do you there's there's there's some

836
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: of these factors that that I've heard you talk about before. Um,

837
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 1: how would you use mock scrapes and you know and water? Um?

838
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: You know you can answer these separately, But I would

839
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: use mock scrapes to potentially plan a hunt around or water?

840
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: Or would you use them at all to plan your

841
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: hunt around? And would you rather go you back to

842
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: the idea of being on their path from betting the food. Well,

843
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: I would never use either to plan my hunt. But

844
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: I do use mock scrapes, UM to inventory bucks on

845
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: a property. You know, I can put that mock scrape

846
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,439
Speaker 1: wherever I want. I can put it in a place

847
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: where I can easily check my trail camera and not

848
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: disturb the property. Yeah, So I can create a mock

849
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: scrape anywhere, and I don't care that the buck checks

850
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: it at night. That don't bother me whatsoever. I just

851
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: want to know what bucks are on that property, and

852
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: if they're there, if there's a shooter buck there, I

853
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: can figure out where to kill him. I don't need

854
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: to bring him into a mock scrape to do that.

855
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: That's how I use them for inventory purposes. Water. I

856
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: think water in much of the country is overrated. Um.

857
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: I don't think that water is is the factor that's

858
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: gonna change a lot of properties and make a take

859
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: an average property and make it really good. Now, there's

860
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: some situation, especially when you get out in the Plane

861
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: State to talk about Kansas, that could be a different story.

862
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: Out there, water could be critical, But you get into

863
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: the the Midwest, I just don't see it as being

864
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: an issue whatsoever. There's just way too many water sources

865
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: creeks and and ponds and whatever here and there. Now

866
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: with I said, you can build a water hole and

867
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: the deer absolutely gonna use it, no doubt about it.

868
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: And if you put it in the right spot where

869
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: you can um put a stand nearby that has good access,

870
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 1: that you can hunt the wind with well, yeah, it can.

871
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 1: It can have a positive influence on your hunting success.

872
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, water sources, artificial man made

873
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: water sources have been uh you know, way overstated or

874
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: that their importance way overstated in the whitetail management community.

875
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: I have a real dumb question which I assume. I

876
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: don't want to assume the answer, so I'm gonna ask it.

877
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: You know, out West, we always say olk have to

878
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: go find water. They have to find standing water somewhere.

879
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: They need to go to a pond, creek, lake, whatever

880
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: it is. Now. Mule deer, it's been well known that

881
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: they can pull moisture either out of their food they're

882
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: eating or out of the precipitation recovery at night. You know,

883
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: cools down, water condenses out of the soil, out of

884
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: the plants, and you know there's there's water available. Can

885
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: white tail in your opinion, do they have to You

886
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: mentioned it that, do they have to go to water?

887
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: Can they get it through food and lush greens and

888
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: precip arcovery. Well, you know, one of the reasons that

889
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: I've um got that opinion about water is an experience

890
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: that I've had near my home. There's a a place

891
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: that every summer there's a bachelor group on this section

892
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: of land and from road to road to road, you know,

893
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: surrounded by roads on four sides that section of land.

894
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: There is not a water source anywhere on that and

895
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: I've been all over it. There's not a water source.

896
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: It's mainly agg fields with some hedgerows and such. But

897
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: every year there is a bachelor group of bucks that

898
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: stays on that section and they're there day after day

899
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: after day. And I've long wondered where are these deer

900
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: getting their water? And I've got to believe that a

901
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: majority of that water has to be coming from the

902
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: plants are eating, and they're feeding heavily on soybeans that

903
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: time of year, and you know, the moisture content in

904
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: those green soybean leaves has got to be high. I

905
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: never dreamed it was high enough that they would not

906
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: need to drink, but apparently it is. And that experience

907
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: and these these bucks have been using this same place

908
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: this summer for decades now, and they just every year

909
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: there's a bachelor group there, but there's no water. And

910
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: that's kind of driven my idea that water is way

911
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 1: overrated here in the Midwest. Yeah, I I, like I said,

912
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: I would think if a meal deer could make it

913
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: without ever going to a water source, um, white tail

914
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: should be able to do the same. But I just

915
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: didn't know that one. So yeah, thanks for that. Uh

916
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: next one, Um, wind, you know, out west, it's all

917
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: we think about. We've got we go through ten you know,

918
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: puffer bottles of wind and and I see not really

919
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 1: you know, two or three bottles were always checking the wind.

920
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: It's very very important, um. And one of my strategies

921
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: is because why I do like a frontal shot on

922
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: on bul elk. Um. One of the things we've always

923
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: talked about is given them a little bit of the wind.

924
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: And I'm willing to give him forty five degrees and

925
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: ninety degrees of the wind, because what that does is

926
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: somebody calling to the elk. Those elks similar to dear,

927
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: They're gonna get to sixty sevent yards and try to

928
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: circle us and get wind. Well, if I give him

929
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: ninety degrees of wind when they go to circle, it's

930
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: gonna pull on broadside in front of me. Um, you know.

931
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: Or if we have a caller and a shooter. So

932
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: we've heard whitetail hunters talk about giving them the wind

933
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: a little bit, and and uh, like I said, I

934
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: don't want to misquote you, but some of your you know,

935
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: some of those mature bucks, they're they're mature for a reason.

936
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: They're smart. They're not gonna play the wind perfect you know,

937
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 1: you have a direct north wind. They're not gonna be dumb,

938
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: and they're not gonna walk necessarily perfectly in a spot

939
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: where they can get killed without putting any thought into it.

940
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: And now that now they may, but that's the anomaly.

941
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: And we're trying to you know, like you said, you're

942
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: trying to kill a deer on purpose, not because you

943
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: just for some reason walk directly, you know, with with

944
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: no regard to the wind. Um. Can you give us

945
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: a little bit of insight on how much you're willing

946
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: to risk the wind? And when you say give him

947
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: the wind, are you willing like, are you taking as

948
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: bigger risks as your wind, maybe crossing the trail you

949
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: expect him to be on, but you'll shoot him before

950
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: he gets there, or are you talking you know, ninety degrees?

951
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 1: Kind of explain what giving him a wind um to

952
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: to maybe fool that that bigger buck or or you know,

953
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: beat him in that chest match. Well, when I was

954
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: probably about nine years old, I'm at a white tail

955
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: legend Roger Rothar. Any white tail hunter that's fifty years

956
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: old or older should remember Roger Rothar an absolute legend.

957
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: And he told me I'll never forget. He told me

958
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: the wind needs to be almost right for the buck

959
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: and almost wrong for you, and that keyword being almost.

960
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: So if he's walking down that trail, he doesn't even

961
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: necessarily want that wind straight in his face, but he

962
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: wants a quartering in his nose, quartering into his And

963
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: if it's quartering into his nose from either direction, then

964
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: you can be off to one side of that trail

965
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: and he's still got a good win for him to move.

966
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: But you're off on the right side of the trail.

967
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: Your sin is blowing not straight down the trail, but

968
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: kind of down the trail, but off to the side.

969
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: And that's the situation that I'm always trying to set up.

970
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: I think too many deer hunters a mistake they make

971
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: is they're trying to get a buck to commit suicide.

972
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: They're trying to get him to give up the wind

973
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: and am ature buckets just not going to do that

974
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: most of the time. Now, you know, occasionally they're gonna

975
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: do about anything. But if you want to kill them consistently,

976
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: you've got to give him the wind. And that doesn't

977
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: mean entirely, but you gotta give it to him enough

978
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: that they think that they're safe and they're going to

979
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: get up and walk in daylight hours, Um, with the

980
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: wind that they're you're giving them. Okay, yeah, that you know.

981
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: We we were in a few stands where we thought

982
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: we had it perfect. You know, great wind when you

983
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: look at an aerial um, you know, great wind. Everywhere

984
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: we think they're betting, everywhere we think they're gonna go

985
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: is perfect. We were just inside of a fence line

986
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty yards is where are. We were in a

987
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: blind that day. We were in a tree stand. Um,

988
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. The wind was perfect. But what we

989
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: noticed is these these bigger bucks. We would we would

990
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: hear something blow behind the stand or a dough, or

991
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: we'd hear something kind of jet and we'd peek out

992
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: one of the corners. You know, everything's kind of screwed up.

993
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 1: And he realized that he could walk down the fence

994
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: line that was twenty yards behind us, and Win checked

995
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: that entire patch of timber and we were inside of it,

996
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, and we're like, dang it, you know, but

997
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: there was nowhere to set up because we had nothing

998
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: but a wide open pasture behind us. But it got

999
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: you thinking, like these bigger and that happened to two

1000
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: or three of the biggest bucks that walked by that,

1001
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, some of the shooters that we were wanting

1002
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 1: to target. You know, of course, we had all kinds

1003
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: of you know, three and a half four and a

1004
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: half year old bucks in front of us, but the

1005
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: two older bucks, they they win checked that out in

1006
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: the wide open field where you know, maybe they wouldn't

1007
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: feel safe, but it was actually safer to be there

1008
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: than inside, you know, where they could see and and

1009
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: it was kind of funny that we were playing the

1010
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: wind per fixed for all the deer in our shooting lane.

1011
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: But yet those deer still you know, out smart to us.

1012
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: So you almost needed to move back or you know,

1013
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: if the if the blind would have been moved back

1014
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: and turned, you could have maybe seen him coming down

1015
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: the fence line and had a shot. What you know,

1016
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: you're only given him ninety degrees of wind, but that

1017
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: wind would have been better for killing them versus not

1018
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: having a chance to see him. So it kind of

1019
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: got got my wheels spinning of you know, it's like, yeah,

1020
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: you might need to give these things, you know, a

1021
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: little bit of wind. You know, who knows if it

1022
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: happens like that every time, but you know, in my opinion,

1023
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: two times was consistent enough to to get you thinking

1024
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: that that that deer was out smartness and wind checking

1025
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: the whole entire patch of timber. Um, well, my chair

1026
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: bucks are absolutely gonna do it just about every time.

1027
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: That's we can go right back to the beginning of

1028
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: of this podcast, and I said hunted down to wind

1029
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: edge of betting cover. Those bucks are gonna be on

1030
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: that down wind edge doing exactly what you just described.

1031
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: And when I'm sutting, when I'm hunting the edge, I'm

1032
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: hunting the very edge. And sometimes those bucks are even

1033
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: down wind and me, I've got my tree stand and

1034
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: the since blowing this way, and that buck he's walking by,

1035
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: but my sense going right out with the top of

1036
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: his back, Um, he's actually down wind. It just he's

1037
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: close enough that and the winds velocity is high enough

1038
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: that my scent just carries right over his back. I've

1039
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: shot a lot of bucks that way. Yeah, and I

1040
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: got like I said, I'm I'm new, I'm getting educated.

1041
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: We spent um, you know, after the hunt, we we

1042
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: walked the property in some spots on on how we

1043
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: could maybe hunt that better. And that was one of

1044
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: the keys we looked at, you know, where to set

1045
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 1: a tree stand so that we could intercept the deer

1046
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: going down the fence still have good cover. Um. It

1047
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: was kind of on a high point. So they felt,

1048
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: you know, like no matter which direction the wind blew,

1049
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: we were gonna be able to blow over the top

1050
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: of you know, the this eater Thickett kind of came

1051
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: out behind us, which we thought they were running, and

1052
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: they were running a lot of doors in there, and

1053
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 1: so you know really quickly, like you could set up there,

1054
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: it's gonna give them the wind. But they thought in

1055
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: the location that tree would be, um, you know, nothing

1056
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: would really smell us, you know, or at least no

1057
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: area that was important to ever get our wind. Um

1058
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: And we could basically hunt three sixty around that stand.

1059
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, it was kind of interesting where I

1060
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: was kind of scratching my head like why the heck

1061
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: would you put a stand here? But they were confident enough,

1062
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: you're high enough, nothing, you know, everything was dropping off. Um,

1063
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: you'd be safe there and be able to shoot. So

1064
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: it's interesting to give him the wind a little bit.

1065
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,959
Speaker 1: And then, um, I suspect next time I go back

1066
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: and hunt, hunt that place, we're gonna have a stand

1067
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: there and be able to capitalize on You know that

1068
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: that you know route that multiple big bucks were taken

1069
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: to check. Uh, you know a big timber patch. Mm hmm.

1070
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: It's all about the wind. Those big bucks are not

1071
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: going to give it up very often. If you're gonna

1072
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: kill him consistently, you gotta play the wind. Yeah, makes

1073
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: makes a ton of sense. And and you know just

1074
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: what I on my one trip, Um, you know it

1075
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 1: kind of clicked. Uh you know that that whole idea

1076
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: of giving him a little bit um if not a

1077
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: lot of it. Uh m hmm. What does your scent

1078
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: control regiment look like? Um? You know, being a Western

1079
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: and I keep going back has been a Western guy like,

1080
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: we don't we've we've kind of given up on sent control.

1081
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: We used to spray my boots and wear elk Estra's

1082
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: wafers on my hat early days. And then it's like, well,

1083
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: I've always got to breathe. I'm always sweating as I'm

1084
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: walking around the mountains. Like there's what I do in

1085
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: the washing machine and the dryer and throw them in

1086
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 1: a tub like the night before. Has no impact because

1087
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 1: within twenty minutes of me riding my bike or hiking

1088
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: up a mountain and you know, breathing out of my

1089
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: mouth or whatnot, Like I've given that up. Now you're

1090
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: going white to hunting. You know, I got busted a

1091
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: couple of days. I'm like, man, they shouldn't have got me.

1092
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: See I see you three close back in there, sent

1093
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, put put the scent killers all over it whatnot. Um,

1094
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: I'm curious what what does your scent control, you know,

1095
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 1: look like? And how much does it matter? Or are

1096
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: you like us out west? And if the wind's right,

1097
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. That's exactly right. You know. At one

1098
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: time I did everything you could possibly do in regards

1099
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: to scent control. I even took the little chlorophill tablets

1100
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, to control your body odor. I do use

1101
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 1: the sprays. I even carried a bottle to pee in

1102
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 1: and my tree stand and I I was still getting busted.

1103
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: You know, I was going to all this trouble and

1104
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: I was still getting busted. Today, I do absolutely nothing,

1105
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: nothing at all except play the wind. My clothes are

1106
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: laying in my garage, right next to my truck. They're

1107
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: not even sealed up in a toad or nothing. They're

1108
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,959
Speaker 1: laying there. If you've got the wind, you've got the wind.

1109
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: He ain't gonna smell you. If you don't, he's gonna

1110
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: smell you. And you know, I've given a lot of seminars,

1111
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: and then you know, I get this question a lot.

1112
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: Somebody will ask what do you do for scent control?

1113
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: And I'll turn it right around on the crowd, and

1114
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 1: I'll say, well, let me ask you. I'll use a question.

1115
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 1: How many of you use some sort of scent control product,

1116
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: use the clothing or the sprays or whatever. If you

1117
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: use anything at all for scent control, raise your hand.

1118
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: Every hand goes up. I said, how many of you

1119
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,959
Speaker 1: been winded by deer? Every hand still up in the air.

1120
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: It don't work, And I may work to some degree,

1121
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 1: it may control your order to some degree, but you're

1122
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: onto it. Man. Just forget that stuff and play the wind.

1123
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: And you either got it or you don't. Yeah, and

1124
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: you know, similar to you, some of your white tail

1125
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: management ideas you know of some of the other guys

1126
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: you say, actually hurts you. I feel sent control can

1127
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: hurt because if there's any placebo effect where it's in

1128
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: your head and you think you can get away with something,

1129
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: you've now just maybe shortcut of the decision on a

1130
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: three location or you've shortcutted, you know, because you now

1131
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: you know got some you know it's it's start that way, like,

1132
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, put the extra effort in, take a different

1133
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: trail to your stand you know, whatever you gotta do,

1134
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: just put in the extra effort and then assume that

1135
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: you know that send control is not gonna work, and

1136
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: you'll make better decisions. Um, you know, be a little

1137
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: more conservative on your decisions. I think that's a fantastic point. Um.

1138
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: You know, if you know the deer's gonna smell you, you

1139
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: you know they're going to and they are, then you're

1140
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: gonna hunt different. You're gonna do whatever it takes to

1141
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: minimize those deer getting down end where they can smell.

1142
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: You're gonna minimize or go out of your way to

1143
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: walk in in such a place or in such a

1144
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: way that those deer not very likely to catch your

1145
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: ground sent or encounter your ground sake, you're gonna do that,

1146
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: no one, they can smell you. But when you start

1147
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: using all these magic potions, well then you get this

1148
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: false idea in your head. Today I'm sent free. I

1149
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 1: can do whatever, and you know, walk to the woods

1150
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: and make all kinds of mistakes, and those products are

1151
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: probably saved more dear than they ever helped kill. Yeah,

1152
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: that's a good point. Yeah, so I assume that it

1153
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: was just kind of curious. Um, you know, I just

1154
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: get worried. You know, it's like not having a ton

1155
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: of experience, not you know, having you know, thousands of

1156
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: deer walk by your stand, like you like what you

1157
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: can get away with. But I learned really quickly, Like, man,

1158
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: if they're in that, I don't even want to I

1159
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: don't know, a hundred twenty degree fog behind you, like

1160
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do to unless you're high enough

1161
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: and it's just blown over them. But if you know

1162
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: there's molecules or whether it's ten molecules, a hundred of thousand,

1163
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how to quantify scent, but if they

1164
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: get enough of it, there's nothing you can do. Um,

1165
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: you have to breathe, you have to your body is

1166
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: putting off heat all the time. Um. In my opinion,

1167
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: you're just kind of um so uh. You know, with

1168
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: with my background being in deer calls and and trying

1169
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: to I I've heard you talk about gimmicks and whatnot,

1170
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: but um, you know, we we we need there is

1171
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: a way to use a deer's hearing against him, whether

1172
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: it's rattling, whether it's calls, whether it's grinning. What is

1173
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: your strategy when it comes to making noise from a stand?

1174
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: Are you silent? Is there a Is there a time

1175
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: where a snort, wheez, a ground bleak or rattling may work?

1176
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: Or do you try to just be a fly on

1177
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: the wall the entire time and hope that the pattern

1178
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: of the deer works for you? Or is there a

1179
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: time where you you will use a call? Here there? Well,

1180
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: I almost never called blindly. Now, if I see a

1181
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: target animal that's out of range and I don't think

1182
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: he's working towards me, I will definitely use a call.

1183
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: I do it a few time every year. But to

1184
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: be honest, I think at least here in the Midwest,

1185
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: I think every one of those gadgets, gizbos, whatever. I

1186
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: think they get so overused by every deer hunter in

1187
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: the woods that by the time a buck gets mature,

1188
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: he knows the game, so you know, it's it's so

1189
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: hard to call him. I I'm old enough that I

1190
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,959
Speaker 1: remember the first grunt calls coming out and the first

1191
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: season that I had a grunt call. I'm telling you what,

1192
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: just about every time I blew that thing, a buck

1193
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: came in. I mean it sounded like a buck and

1194
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,919
Speaker 1: those bucks have never heard it before, and they came

1195
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: in Today. You're lucky to call in ten percent. And

1196
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: that's if you see them and you know he heard

1197
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: it because he pulls his head up and looks at you.

1198
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: You're lucky to get ten percent of them to come

1199
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: into your stand, And that was not the case. Now.

1200
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: I think that if you're in you know, places where

1201
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: there's not as much hunting pressure, um, then I think

1202
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: they're a lot more effective. You know, the same thing

1203
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: that we said for decoys. I've had terrible experience with decoys,

1204
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: but I know guys in Kansas that swear by them

1205
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: that they decoy and multiple bucks every single year. But

1206
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm telling you around here. They don't work. You'll spook

1207
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: twenty deer for every single one that comes in to

1208
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: check your decoy out. Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that.

1209
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,439
Speaker 1: One thing. One point I want to make and see

1210
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: if it kind of um you know, correlates with what

1211
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: you've seen. You know, this is this is Kansas, well

1212
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: managed pieces of property to deer on these really probably

1213
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: only see you know, my buddy Randy, that that owns

1214
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: the place if anybody and nobody hunts it. Um, what

1215
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: I noticed, even with a well managed property, lots of bucks,

1216
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: different age classes. You know, we were seeing three and

1217
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: a half, four and a half, six and a half,

1218
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, the whole gamut do you find or what

1219
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: I found sitting in the tree, you know, wanting to

1220
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: test the calls and use them. Um, they were very

1221
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: very effective on deer that were four and a half

1222
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: and younger. Now, if I had a buck cruise that

1223
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:03,959
Speaker 1: was five and a half or six and a half

1224
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: and he wasn't on lockdown, he was just doing the

1225
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: same you know, let's just say, slowly trotting down a trail. Um,

1226
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: same thing that these three and a halfs or four

1227
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: and a halfs were doing. And I hit him with

1228
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: the same the same sound, same volume, you know, as

1229
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: much as I can do to be the same that

1230
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: that that older buck, more mature buck might look in

1231
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: our direction and he almost goes back to what he's doing.

1232
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: Where I had a very very high success rate on

1233
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: getting the three and a halfs in the four and

1234
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: a half to turn towards my tree. Um, you know,

1235
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: And so why And that's my own observation ten days

1236
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: in the tree. I'm far from an expert, but there

1237
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: was enough of a of a pattern happening where it's like, oh,

1238
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: grunting in these these younger bucks is really easy. These

1239
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: big ones just don't seem to want to want to

1240
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: play the game, you know. Same thing with rattling. We

1241
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: had some buck come charging you know, the blind or

1242
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: the tree that we were in, depending on the day. Um,

1243
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, older bucks very rarely. Um you know, and

1244
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: that's not not in lockdown. So yeah, just an observation

1245
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: I made. You know, those three and a half four

1246
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: and a half somewhat easy to call in older dear

1247
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: not so easy. I agree with that a hundred percent.

1248
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: Those older ones, I've heard it before saying, and they

1249
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: probably circled down when too some guys sitting in a

1250
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: tree blowing the star spangled banner and it's a grunt too.

1251
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I really appreciate having you on here, Dawn. Um,

1252
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: how can people find out more about you if they're interesting,

1253
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, reading any more of your material, um, you know,

1254
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: subscribing any that's you know, all of your platforms and whatnot. Well,

1255
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: they can go to my website which is Higgins outdoors

1256
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: dot com and uh my social media Higgins Outdoors on

1257
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: Facebook and Instagram. I've got a YouTube channel Chasing Giants

1258
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: with Higgins Outdoors, a podcast Chasing Giants that can be

1259
01:03:55,520 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 1: found on YouTube or any podcast platform. Um, I'm out there.

1260
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: If you just do a search for my name, you're

1261
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: gonna find me. Um. After digesting a lot of your

1262
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 1: your information that you have to talk about outside of

1263
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: this podcast, and even going through this podcast, I assume

1264
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: I know what the answer is going to be on

1265
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: this one. But in closing, if you have one tip

1266
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: that you feel would give white tail hunters, uh, you

1267
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: know better odds um, you know and in years to

1268
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: come on their own property, what would it be? Uh?

1269
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: Freedom of human intrusion is the key. I mean, those

1270
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: big bucks are not going to tolerate human intrusion. And

1271
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: if you find a place where human intrusion is very

1272
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: limited or nonexistent, there's a very good chance and that's

1273
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 1: gonna be the place you're gonna find them at your buck.

1274
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: And you can if you own your own farm, you

1275
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: can make it that way. And that's what I've done

1276
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: on my home farm. And I'm telling you, the biggest

1277
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: bucks in my neighborhood every single year or on my property. Yeah,

1278
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: and you I've heard you, you know, the Joey buck. Uh.

1279
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: You know, these sanctuaries don't have to be big. He

1280
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: was on like a three acre piece, right, And I've

1281
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: heard you reference. You know, a single tree out in

1282
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: the middle of a field that's surrounded by some brush

1283
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: like that could be the sanctuary. You're just so when

1284
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: people go to look for these sanctuaries, you don't have

1285
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: to look at big you know, never ending tracks September.

1286
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: It's just literally where nobody is bothering them. There's no

1287
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: real you know, it might be a corner of your

1288
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: neighbor's property, it might be a corner of your property

1289
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: you never go to, but that's where that Buck wants

1290
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:27,479
Speaker 1: to be absolutely well said, all right, perfect, Well, thanks

1291
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 1: a lot, Don, good luck if you get a chance

1292
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: to get back up in the stand. And always always

1293
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: interested to learn from you. Um, you've got some great

1294
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: information out there. And uh, like I said, I appreciate

1295
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: you having here on the podcast. Yeah, I'm well I

1296
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: did anytime, So thanks for having me, Jason, all right,

1297
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: thanks Don,