1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: Donald Trump wasted no time in spreading the word that 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Fulton County Prosecutor Fannie Willis has been accused of misconduct 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 2: in the Georgia election interference case. 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 3: Now it turns out that that case is totally compromised. 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 4: In fact, they say she's in far more criminal liability 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 4: than any of the people she's looking at. So I 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 4: think that when you look at what happened, where they 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 4: pay a lawyer with absolutely no experience seven hundred thousand 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 4: dollars who happens to be her lover or her boyfriend, 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 4: and then they go on trips and vacations together, very 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 4: expensive vacations together. 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: And the reason they paid him so much because. 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 5: He was after me. 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: Trump of course distorted and embellished the allegations, which came 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: from a court filing the case. One of his co defendants, 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: Michael Roman, a former Trump campaign official, claimed that Willis 18 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: improperly hired a romantic partner to lead the Rico case 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: and benefited financially from his appointment. The filing didn't offer 20 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: any direct evidence to back up those claims, and Willis 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 2: has not responded to the allegations, yet Roman is asking 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: the judge to disqualify the entire prosecution team. My guest 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: is Michael Moore of Moore Hall, the former US Attorney 24 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: for the Middle District of Georgia. Michael, what's your take 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: on these allegations. 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Well, without question, I think it's tragic for the case. 27 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: And I don't mean that it means that legally that 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: I think that the allegation raised in mister Oman's motion 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: are sufficient to have the case dismissed, but it's just 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: an unforced error on the DA's part if they're true. 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if they're true or not, but it 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: would be hard to imagine a lawyer filing that kind 33 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: of nuclear motion without having some proof in their back pocket. So, 34 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: whether that's a copy of some documents from the Seal 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: of divorce proceedings mister Wade, or whether that's some kind 36 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: of travel proof or emails or whatever they may have, 37 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: the kind of things they raise in emotion, it would 38 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: be hard to imagine they find it without some backing. 39 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: While I don't think again that it gives a legal defense, 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: it just makes the optics terrible and it gives the 41 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: already plentiful critics of the prosecution in the case, it 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: just gives them something else to grab hold to, and 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: as a prosecute, you don't want to do that. 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: I want to take the claims separately. Is there anything 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: wrong with willis having a romantic relationship if this were 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: the case, a romantic relationship with the special prosecutor working. 47 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: For her, Well, it can be. I mean, I think 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: there are always concerns, you know, when you have that, 49 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: because of potential problems with sexual harassment and workplace problems, 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: that type of thing. And I imagine it's somewhere in 51 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: there's violative of probably some ethical divisions and that she 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: they have for the office or the offices have long standing. 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: Is it illegal in his face? Non? And you know, 54 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: in their private life is their private life. They are 55 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: obviously their adults and I'm assuming to be consuming adults, 56 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: and so I don't know that that really is the 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: basis of the attack. It's more of a you know, 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: was this appointment made and is this prosecution itself now 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: being used as a way to generate funds that somehow 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: flow back to the benefit of the District attorney herself. 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: And I think that's the basis of their much. 62 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, they assert that she's benefited personally from the payments 63 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: he's getting, for example, that she joined him on multiple 64 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: cruises and other trips he paid for. That would be improper. 65 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: Well, it certainly would be. And I think that's the concern. 66 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean this, you know, we've talked about this at 67 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: some length and the question of where they're not an 68 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: elected DA should even be prosecuting a case like this. 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: And so just if you compare the difference in talking 70 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: about from romantic relationships, but compared the difference in what 71 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: we see in Jack Smith a special Council versus what 72 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: we're seeing in the fulls and DA's job, and that 73 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: is you've got an elected officials. She's moving around making 74 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: media appearances, walking on red carpets and openings and glamour 75 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: things and all this, and you've got Jack Smith bus 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: that who's in a cave somewhere with his minions doing 77 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: his work, you know, and he's not coming out making 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: public statements and put himself out for public scrutiny. And 79 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: so while the DA may argue, well, some of this 80 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: I need to do as part of my job because 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: I have to be re elected that seems to weigh 82 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: against the value of having elected da involved in a 83 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: case like this, and it causes the case to be 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: somewhat tainted from an optics point of view. And I 85 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: think the same is true even in the appointment of staff, 86 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: as we've seen, if the allegations in this motion that 87 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: had been raised are accurate, and mister Wade has never prosecuted, 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: at least to the knowledge of the lawyer for the motion, 89 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: has not prosecuted a fellow any case, and so you 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: have to be asking yourself why would this be happening, 91 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: as opposed to having a career prosecutor who's well versed 92 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: and well experienced in felony prosecutions of what I think 93 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: are great important probably one of the largest at least 94 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: cases of notoriety right now in the country. Why this 95 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: would be happening. And when you start piecing all those 96 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: things together, then the concerns about how much he's being paid, 97 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: why is he being paid that, how was he selected, 98 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: Why was it he selected without the approval of the 99 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: commission if that's true. Why did he not sign the 100 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: oath at the time before the grandeury? If that's true? 101 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: You know, all these things start to then come together 102 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: and so on. One mistake or one error of judgment, 103 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: or even one inadvertence, I think starts to turn into 104 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,119 Speaker 1: really a kaleidoscope of criticism and error in the case. 105 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: And while it doesn't make the case unprosecutable, it makes 106 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: her job much much harder as a prosecutor to do 107 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: something decisions that the public can continue to have confidency. 108 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: You might not always agree with the prosecutor, but you 109 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: won't to be able to at least look at what 110 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: they did and have confidence that somehow the system worked, 111 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: that there was not some other motive out there other 112 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: than to seek justice. And I worry that that may 113 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: be what the ramifications are if again, if the allegation 114 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: of the motion are true. 115 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 2: What hit me most when I was reading this is, 116 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: you know, is he qualified to be the special prosecutor 117 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: handling a major ECO case, prosecuting a former president, the 118 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: biggest case ever in Fulton County and perhaps you know, 119 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: in the country. And she had said this previously. She'd 120 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: chosen him because he was a trustworthy friend and contemporary, 121 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: and she thought he was thick skinned enough to handle 122 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: attacks from Trump and her own critiques. But does he 123 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: have the experience to be in this position. 124 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: I will say I don't know him personally, so I'll 125 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: preface my commage with that. I think it's not uncommon. 126 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: And you see all over the state again with the 127 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: district attorneys, it may not be uncommon for the district 128 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: attorney themselves to not be the most experienced prosecutor in 129 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: the office. I mean, sometimes they're appointed by a governor 130 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: to replace somebody in their young staff members of the governor. 131 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: The same thing you see when the governor appoints somebody 132 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: to the bench, or they may be people who've just 133 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: been in the office a period of time when the 134 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: district attorney resides, and so they jump in and suddenly 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: become the DA. But they surround themselves with other knowledgeable, qualified, 136 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: and experienced prosecutors. And I'm sure somehow that was what 137 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: she was trying to do, or at least would be 138 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: the argument she would make that even though if again 139 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: the allegations are true in the motion, if mister Wade 140 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: does not have fell in a prosecuted experience, that he 141 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: would be surrounded by people like her Rico Expert and 142 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: other trial lawyers, that the DA's thoughts have to come 143 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: to trial. I don't think that that makes the best 144 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: picture for the person being called the lead trial counsel 145 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: for the prosecution. I think that probably the public knowing that, 146 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: would lose some confidence in some of the decisions and 147 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: tactics and strategies that will be made and publicized throughout 148 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: this litigation, and it'll be blamed on his inexperience, whether 149 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: it's true or not. And that is the harm that 150 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: I see caused here, that those kinds of things will 151 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: call into question whatever the ultimate outcome is, that it 152 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: puts the judge him in a unique position too. I mean, 153 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: he's sitting here now with one motion raised already about 154 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: the propriety of whether or not the oath was properly 155 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: done at the time, and now he's come in and 156 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: he's got this issue before him. And we know from 157 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: before we've had the issue with the district attorney having 158 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: a fundraiser for the political opponent of someone she was investigating, 159 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: and one of the people less have than a bake eleector. 160 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: She had a fundraiser for one of those political opponents 161 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: at the time, and that caused some issues. In fact, 162 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: his case couldn't be investigated any further. He's now the 163 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: Lieutenant governor here, and so it's again it's it's the 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: massing together of all of these issues that really cast 165 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: some shade on the prosecution. And the question will be 166 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: whether or not she stays in herself or whether not 167 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: the best thing to do would be to say, you know, 168 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: this case is bigger than me, It's bigger than my 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: senior counsel, mister Wade, and I've got to deal with 170 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: these issues, and I've got he's alsously got to deal 171 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: with this divorce. She's been subpainted to testify in the 172 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: divorce here. And she may say I'm I'm going to 173 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: stand down and let the governor appoint somebody else to 174 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: come and finish the case. I'll bet you about ninety 175 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: nine point nine nine nine percent she wouldn't do that 176 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: of her own volition, but that, to me, would be 177 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: the path that's probably called for at this point. 178 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: I can't take that bet because I agree with you. 179 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: Coming up next on the Bloomberg Lass Show, what about 180 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: those legal fees? Wade was paid about six hundred and 181 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: fifty four thousand dollars over two years. I'm June Grosso 182 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: and you're listening to Bloomberg I've been talking to Michael Moore, 183 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: the former US attorney for the Middle District of Georgia, 184 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: about the allegations that Fulton County Prosecutor Fannie Willis improperly 185 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: hired her romantic partner to be the special prosecutor leading 186 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: the Rico case against Donald Trump and fourteen others. He 187 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: was paid about six hundred and fifty four thousand in 188 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: legal fees in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three. 189 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: I mean, is that commensurate with what a person would get? 190 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: No, No, let's not commission at all. I mean the 191 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: district attorney probably makes, with county supplements and that kind 192 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: of thing, probably a little less than two hundred thousand 193 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: dollars a year perself. An average assistant district attorney would 194 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: probably make around one hundred and twenty two one hundred 195 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: and sixty thousand dollars a year, somebody who's had some experience, 196 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: a good bit of experience, and so our appellate judges, 197 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: I think the Supreme Court now is making maybe two 198 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: hundred thousand or a little over two hundred thousand dollars 199 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: a year. Federal judges make a little over two hundred 200 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year when I was a United States attorney, 201 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: to pay for the United States attorneys was captured about 202 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty four thousand dollars a year, and 203 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: so this has been a windfall to him in income. 204 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: And I think that, again is part of the optics 205 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: problem that she has, is that it's so out of 206 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: the norm for what's being paid by some of the 207 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: highest legal officials and judicial officials in the state that 208 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: it immediately catches your attention. 209 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: The motion is to disqualify the whole prosecution team and 210 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: to dismiss the indictment. It seems like dismissing the indictment 211 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: is way out of line. 212 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: But I think I think it's unlikely that the indictment 213 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: would be dismissed. I mean the grand jury meant I 214 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: think there may be other reasons, and that could be 215 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: other motions raised about the sufficiency of the indictment or 216 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: the legalities of certain allegations set forth, And I mean 217 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: that those are questions that really go more to with 218 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,239 Speaker 1: not an indictment should be dismissed. The allegation of the 219 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: personal relationship would have no bearing on the issue of 220 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: the dismissal of Endemond. I think it could, and I 221 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: think the judge will be thinking about this as well. 222 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: It could result in a suggestion that she recused herself 223 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: of mister Wade from the case. I don't know how 224 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: that would be received. Again, I mean, if the reporting 225 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: is corrected and Ms Willis has now been subpoena to 226 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: testify mister Wade's divorce proceeding, what comes out of that, 227 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: what part of that record may be made public, those 228 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: kinds of things that may further inflame the situation that 229 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: we're in now. The case, in the judge's mind, I think, 230 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: is probably one to be decided by a jury and 231 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: not encumbered by the sort of the personal baggage it's 232 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: been added to it, and I don't think he would 233 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: let the defense make much hay about the personal relationship 234 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing in front of a jury. 235 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: I do think there's some things that have come out 236 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: that may very well get in to evidence before the 237 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: jury that had come out as a result of this motion, 238 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: and one of those being whether or not in fact 239 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: mister Wade was in communication on at least two occasions 240 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: with Democratic officials in the Biden Whitehouse. If that's the case. 241 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: If those two eight hour entries are accurate, I think 242 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: that could lead to some questioning of whether or not 243 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: the case is politically motivated, whether not has been controlled 244 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: by Democrats and the political opponent of the current defendant. 245 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: I think that could very well find its way at 246 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: some point into a case under certain certain circumstances, and 247 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: that you know, the doors opened. That's always a fear that. 248 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: Certainly would play into Trump's hole rights. 249 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: And that's what I mean. This kind of thing has 250 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: given now Trump's supporters that much more to argue about. 251 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: But apparently there were some entries on the time records 252 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: showing at least two meetings, and I think mister Wade 253 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: build and that's how they came about. And look at 254 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: the billing statements. They show at least two entries for 255 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: he would talking with people in the Biden White House. 256 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: You know, there'll be some people who question and say, well, 257 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: that's legitimate. He's trying to get information or get a 258 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: way for an executive privilege of that type of thing. 259 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: You know, you can make that argument. But for people 260 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: who may have already been applied to not accept the 261 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: validity of the prosecution and the validity of the allegations 262 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: of the case itself. It certainly stokes the fire that 263 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: there is, you know, something afoot, and certainly at least 264 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: there's smoke somewhere, and they're going to argue then that 265 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: there's certainly fire and that that Biden White House is 266 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: having some communication and control over a case. You know, 267 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: the Day has been very coy about her comments and 268 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: discussions with the Congress and whether or not there has 269 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: been any of sharing of information with the Committee Genuary 270 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: six committeeing all these things. And so this now depended 271 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: on if there have been any representations made in court 272 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: about what the prosecution's file consists of what information should 273 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: be turned over to a defend that they're in the 274 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: regular course of discovery. This may open the door to 275 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: some further review that maybe even an end camera or 276 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: reviewed by the court. 277 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: Turning to another issue, Trump is seeking to have the 278 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: case thrown out by arguing he's protected from prosecution under 279 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: presidential immunity. So that's the same claim he's making in 280 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: the federal case in DC. Will the decision of the 281 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: DC Circuit Court of Appeals have any impact in Georgia? 282 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: It will these issues of constitutional questions and presidential immunity 283 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: questions would ultimately find their way to the Supreme Court, 284 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: I think, and you saw this in the case already 285 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: where we had the issue about should the case be 286 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: transferred and it's heard in federal court and eleven Circuit 287 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: corpt appeals but a quick ruling, and I think mister 288 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: Meadows is still appealing some of that, but that obviously 289 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: affects the state case. The same thing here. If the 290 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: court rules that his conduct is protected by presidential immunity, 291 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: then I think that pretty much shuts down most of 292 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: the most of the Trump case. Part of the issue 293 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: with the indictment that is pending in Fulton County is 294 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: it focuses almost exclusively on presidential conducts, or mister Trump's 295 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: conduct rather while he was president. I guess question of 296 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: the run presidential conduct will be decided by court, but 297 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: certainly while he was a sitting president of the United States. 298 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: And so the question for the appellate court will now 299 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: be how do we decide and who gets to decide 300 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: whether not specific acts that occurred by a president were 301 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: inside or outside his or her presidential duties. So there 302 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: was an interesting back and forth with one of the 303 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: judges in the DC Circuit in this case, and the 304 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: question was asked something to the effect of, we could 305 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: a sitting president order Seal Team six to kill his 306 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: political opponent. I think most people would say absolutely, that's 307 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: not ridiculous, but I'm absurd a little bit in a way. Well, 308 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: the question might also be asked, could a president order 309 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: Seal Team six to kill his political opponent who happened 310 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: to be in posestion of a threat to detonate a 311 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: nuclear bomb if he was given not White House, that's 312 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: a different question. So these are not just simple black 313 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: and white questions, but these are gray issues, and that 314 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: I think, at the end of the day will be 315 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: the issue that Supreme Court has to weigh in on 316 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: and will affect Georgia in the case. Who decides whether 317 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: or not the specific act set forth in the indictment 318 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: was within the bounds of the presidency and presidential authority, 319 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: and who decides if it's not, And how do we 320 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: define that conduct? And so these are huge issues and 321 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: big questions that are certainly not the first of their kind, 322 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: because we saw a little bit of this in the 323 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: Nixon case. But when it comes to the allegations in 324 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: this indictment, and the number of criminal cases pending in 325 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: the various jurisdictions, the number of jurisdictions where those cases depending. 326 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: It's certainly at first, if you would the Supreme Court 327 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: bus he has a lot of loose threads being thrust 328 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: at it, and it's got to figure out how to 329 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: tie all those things up into a knot so that 330 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: the decision leaves the courts below clarity on how to 331 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: move forward. 332 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: If the court takes the case, it'll be another issue 333 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: related to the twenty twenty four presidential campaign that the 334 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: court decides. Thanks so much, Michael. That's Michael Moore, a 335 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: partner at Moore Hall and the former US Attorney for 336 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 2: the Middle District of Georgia. It's a trial in which 337 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: control of Donald Trump's business empire is at stake, not 338 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: to mention the three hundred and seventy million dollars in 339 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: damages the New York Attorney General is seeking yet. The 340 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: Thursday finale of New York Civil fraund trial against Trump 341 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 2: was engineered to provide the former president and Republican front 342 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 2: runner with the latest opportunity to steal the spotlight. As 343 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: lawyers for the New York A g Letitia James delivered 344 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: closing arguments in the courtroom where the trial had played 345 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 2: out for almost eleven weeks. Trump's seat at the defense 346 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: table was empty. He'd left to hold a press cut 347 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 2: in the marble lobby of his forty Wall Street skyscraper 348 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 2: with a backdrop of carefully arranged American flags. His rhetoric 349 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 2: was familiar and all about grievance. 350 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: And so it's all a conspiracy to try and get Biden, 351 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 3: who can't put two sentences together, try to get him 352 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: into office. So I just want to let you know 353 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 3: that we have the best poll numbers, we have the 354 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 3: best everything, despite this, and maybe because of this, because 355 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: the people of the United States, all of those people 356 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 3: back there, but the people of the United States really 357 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: get it. They get it better than anybody else. 358 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: In addition to the New York trial, Trump is facing 359 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: five other trials, four criminal and one civil, and he 360 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: blamed all of them on his political opponent. 361 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 3: We'll see my legal issues, every one of them. Everyone 362 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 3: civil and the criminal ones are all set up by 363 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: Joe Biden. Crooker, Joe Biden. This is something that's never 364 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 3: happened in this country. Even when you look at this, 365 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 3: this is all about Biden and her meeting. So even 366 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 3: the civil ones, this is civil. They're set up by Biden. 367 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 3: Every single just about case that I'm involved in is 368 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: set up by Biden. They're doing it for election interference. 369 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 2: Letitia James responded to Trump's attacks after the closing arguments 370 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 2: were finished. 371 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 6: This case has never been about politics. Personal vendetta were 372 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 6: about name calling. This case is about the facts and 373 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 6: the law, and mister Donald Trump violated the law. 374 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado, who was 375 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: in the courtroom today. Patty, I thought it had been 376 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: decided that Trump was not going to speak at the 377 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 2: closing arguments, yet he did speak. What happened? 378 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 7: Email exchanges began last week between the court, the AG 379 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 7: and Trump lawyers, suggesting that Trump wanted to speak, and 380 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 7: the emails that were filed show that the judge was 381 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 7: basically telling Trump's lawyers that's number one, the Ages office 382 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 7: is slipping out that there's no precedent for a descendant 383 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 7: to help deliver their own closing arguments. That's not the 384 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 7: forum and that's not proper. And then the judge was saying, 385 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 7: is your client willing to follow the rules, which are 386 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 7: no political speeches, but basically stick to the facts and 387 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 7: the evidence that you're arguing and not make political speeches. 388 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 7: And the judge gave a multiple deadline, and at one 389 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 7: point the judge is basically saying, you've got to drop 390 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 7: dead deadline. You have to tell me if he's going 391 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 7: to seak on Thursday. And then trumb lawyer says that 392 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 7: Mwania's mother passed away, so he'd like to postpone everything 393 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 7: till the twenty ninth of January, and the judge is like, no, 394 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 7: you can't. And then he's basically saying, very unfair your 395 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 7: honor to do this, not allowing President Trump, who's been 396 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 7: wrongfully demean and belittled by an out of control, politically 397 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 7: motivated attorney general, to speak of the things that must 398 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 7: be spouting about. So it seemed like the matter was 399 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 7: the judge said, I want to base it again, take 400 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 7: it or leave it now. I never you have until 401 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 7: news seven minutes from now. I will not grant any 402 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 7: further extensions. And that last sentence, I will not grant 403 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 7: any further sensions is all in caps. And then the 404 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 7: judge messages that, hey, it's twelve twelve now I've never 405 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 7: heard from you, So I assume that your clients will 406 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 7: not agree to the reasonable lawful limits that. 407 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 5: I have imposed as a precondition to giving the closing 408 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 5: statement ether and beyond those given by his lawyers, because 409 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 5: you know, we all know the rules parties not to 410 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 5: us to be speaking in court. 411 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 7: So basically he had to abide by the rules. The 412 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 7: judge said, as we know that, the judgid you know 413 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 7: you can't just let your client make a speech. So 414 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 7: today from lawyers, three of them dave closing statements, and 415 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 7: he gave them the time limits and they finished. And 416 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 7: then Trump's first one of his main lawyers, Chris Kai, 417 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 7: turns to the judge and says, I know you said 418 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 7: that my client couldn't speak, but now could he speek? 419 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 7: He liked to speak. And the judge is like, well, 420 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 7: will he abide by the rules I set, you know, 421 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 7: the ground rules? And will he promise to do that? 422 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 7: Mister Trump? 423 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 5: He he promised to. 424 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 7: Do that, and then Trump didn't even answer him, just 425 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 7: launches into YAO, buy by the ground rules, and he 426 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 7: just starts speak define and it is going on and 427 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 7: on and on, and he spoke for about six minutes. 428 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 7: You know diatribe against the age against everyone. That was 429 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 7: a spare to him about the judge. 430 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: And we should point out that the judge is the 431 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 2: one that's going to be deciding this case. There is 432 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 2: no jury. Yet he's been attacking the judge. 433 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 7: He accused the judge of not paying any attention. He 434 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 7: said the judge never listens from more than a minute anyway, 435 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 7: And the judge had already put limits on everybody. So 436 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 7: it wasn't like Trump, I'm going to be allowed to 437 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 7: speak at stamporaneous played for a half hour like you 438 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 7: probably wanted to. And so he said things like they 439 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 7: heard triplex and they just multiplied it by three. 440 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 5: Things like that happened. It's a very small number if 441 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 5: he's talking about the triplex was tripled. 442 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: Right. 443 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 5: We have a situation where I'm an innocent man. Legal 444 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 5: scholars find this case for disgraceful. This is the first 445 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 5: time they've used this statute. It's the first time it's 446 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 5: been ever used. This is not consumer fraud. It's a 447 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 5: fraud on me. They did this with Exon, and look 448 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 5: what happened. Exon left for Texas, alleging that the AG's 449 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 5: office sued Exon and they up and left for Texas, 450 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 5: but the AG office later said the AG didn't sue 451 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 5: Exon before they left, that was after, and that they 452 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 5: left for Texas in nineteen eighty nine, way before the 453 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 5: lawsuit was ever viled. 454 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: It sounds like he repeated the same claims of political 455 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: bias and election interference that we've heard over and over again. 456 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 5: And so he says, how many taxes are paid? It's close, 457 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 5: it's three hundred million dollars. But they don't want me here, 458 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 5: they don't want Trump here. It's because I ran for office. 459 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 5: It's because of the person here who hates me. Without 460 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 5: these days and months and years and millions of pages, 461 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 5: they've found nothing, and for what I borrowed money from 462 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 5: the bank much smaller than three hundred and seventy million. 463 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 5: And then that's when the judge interrupted and he goes 464 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 5: just one more minute, and then he goes, you can't 465 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 5: listen for more than one minute. Retorts back to the judge, 466 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 5: they should pay me for what I've gone through. And 467 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 5: then the judge says, okay, thank you very much, mister Kailee. 468 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 5: Can you please control your clients? And then he goes, 469 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 5: mister kis should have been done differently. We now have 470 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 5: to leave this because they had to leave the courtroom 471 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 5: because everybody was on their lunch hour and Trump was 472 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 5: still volenting. 473 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: I know that Trump's lawyers argued the political angle, which 474 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: we've heard over and over and over again. What else 475 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 2: did they argue? 476 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 7: It's a whole which hunt. It's the thing in proper 477 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 7: if anyone made any mistakes, if all masars fall, it 478 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 7: was always mistakes were made, but who they're not important 479 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 7: and material. No one was harmed, The banks weren't harmed. 480 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 5: Stuff like that. 481 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 7: You know, it's been the same exact thing this whole time. 482 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: Did the ag have anyone on the stand who said 483 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 2: they were harmed by this? 484 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 7: Well, they did have a joy to bank banker who 485 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 7: said that the terms would have not the lending terms 486 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 7: would have not been this way had they known the 487 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 7: truth about the true value of statements, his true network, 488 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 7: and then they had Zurich insurer and a Totio Marine insured. 489 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 7: If the terms of lending would have been much different 490 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 7: had they known the true the true network as opposed 491 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 7: to what was stated in the inflated statements of financial condition. 492 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: For Trump, this is only about what four or six 493 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 2: counts left. 494 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 7: Yeah, the judge has already found it. The statements of 495 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 7: financial condition were fraudulments, so that's pre trial ruling. 496 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 5: He found them liable. 497 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 7: So now they're remedies. They want a scorgement of three 498 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 7: hundred and seventy million dollars. They also are sort of 499 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 7: suggesting that they want Trump to be barred from making 500 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 7: any more new loans for the next five years, no 501 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 7: new real estate transactions. Basically, Trump flayers were arguing today 502 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 7: that would be a death penalty for the company. And 503 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 7: also it was not warranted at all. 504 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 2: We know the judges already ruled against him, and we 505 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: know that Trump has done nothing but antagonize the judge. 506 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 2: Do you have any inclination from what the judge said, Well, 507 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 2: there were a. 508 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 7: Couple of points of time today where the judge was, 509 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 7: you know, whether he's playing devil's advocate or is actually 510 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 7: voicing specific concerns about the paucity of evidence in certain claims. 511 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 7: There were certainly questions about whether the Suns had knowingly 512 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 7: intended to defraud. The age said there was plenty there, 513 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 7: you know, you like, you can't visit the sins of 514 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 7: the father on the children. Basically kind of argument, the 515 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 7: judge seemed to be a little bit you know, questioning that. 516 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 7: They also, the judge interrupted at one point the AG 517 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 7: had made the comparison that Martin Screlly was banned from 518 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 7: doing business in the pharmaceutical industry by federal judge as 519 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 7: the pharma bro after being convicted, and that they were 520 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 7: basically saying that's this is similar. And then the. 521 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 5: Judge goes, do you think this case is as bad. 522 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 7: As made off? How would you compare it to the 523 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 7: made off ponzee? Which is kind of wild because it 524 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 7: has nothing to do with the Ponzi scheme. It's much smaller, 525 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 7: it's much different, much smaller kind of case. But that said, 526 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 7: what it says he approved of this spot and if 527 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 7: you're rich enough, you can get away with it. 528 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: So while the trial is still going on, while the 529 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: ages office and closing argument, Trump held a press conference 530 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: downtown and his forty Wall Street building. 531 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,479 Speaker 7: A tactical a tactical move to sear the press's attention 532 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 7: away from what was happening. In a staatecase like this, 533 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 7: they will saw the defendant goes first the closing statement, 534 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 7: and then the plaintiff, which is the AG, goes second. 535 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 7: So all morning long, Trump's was a very quiet, very 536 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 7: attentive student, listening to every word, wraps attention to where 537 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 7: three lawyers were saying, and no grumbling or mumbling from him. 538 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 7: And then he gave a speech, and then he was 539 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 7: left for lunch, and then he went down to forty 540 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 7: Wall Street to have a press conference and it was 541 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 7: announced earlier in the day as a campaign stop, and 542 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 7: he used it to trash the case again. 543 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: Why did the AG raise the amount of money she 544 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: wants the judge to award. 545 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 7: It's complicated that essentially, there's been a series of transactions 546 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 7: that have happened, for example, sales of like a golf 547 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 7: course in northern Manhattan, so a New York City golf 548 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 7: course that's Ferry Point, that he made profit on. So 549 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 7: these are kinds of extra profits that Trump borrowed money, 550 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 7: got this borrowed money under these terms, according through fraudulent terms, 551 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 7: according to the AG's case. And therefore, since he's made 552 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 7: profits by selling these properties recently, he should be have 553 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 7: to cough with extra money now because he's made extra games. 554 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: And the judge said he'll aim to deliver a verdict 555 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: before January thirty. First look for another press conference then, 556 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: or probably two press conferences. Thanks so much, Patty. That's 557 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg Legal reporter. And in less than a week, 558 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: the next trial for Trump will begin, the defamation suit 559 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 2: by e Jene Carroll. It will start one day after 560 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: the Iowa Caucuses. Trump said he'll attend the trial. And 561 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 2: that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Lawn Podcast. 562 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 2: Remember you can always get the late legal news by 563 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: subscribing and listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 564 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 2: and at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law. I'm 565 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: June Grosso and this is Bloomberg