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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: I'm standing outside a Soso coffeehouse in a strip mall

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Speaker 2: near Phoenix, Arizona, perfectly blue skies, maybe seventy degrees an

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Speaker 2: imperceptible breeze. My producer, Jacob Smith is here with me.

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Speaker 2: We're waiting for the coolest car ever made.

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Speaker 1: So it's say, hold on, let's see what we got here.

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Speaker 1: We got a Is it a Nissan?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: No, it's a Pacifica.

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Speaker 2: It's a Chrysler Pacifica. Actually a Chrysler Pacifica hybrid, a

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Speaker 2: Mini Man tricked out by the geniuses at Google with

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Speaker 2: every conceivable high tech sensor and gizmo known to man,

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Speaker 2: so that it can drive itself, a fully autonomous vehicle.

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Speaker 2: Google calls it Weaimo, and here on the outskirts of

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Speaker 2: Phoenix you can order Weimo on an app like an

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Speaker 2: uber our. Weimo silently glides up like a spooky ghost

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Speaker 2: ship and we get on board.

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Speaker 1: So we have this thing.

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Speaker 4: Should we start the ride?

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Speaker 2: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. Welcome to season six of

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Speaker 2: Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. We

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Speaker 2: are back, ladies and gentlemen, with a heartwarming story of

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Speaker 2: what I learned riding around in a weymo on a

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Speaker 2: gorgeous Arizona morning. Me and Jacob grinning ear to ear,

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Speaker 2: bouncing up and down like little boys on their first

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Speaker 2: visit to Disneyland. We were on our way to a

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Speaker 2: new century, a new era, the dawn of a new age.

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Speaker 2: Although I have to be honest, the future was now

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Speaker 2: what we expected.

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Speaker 1: It was better.

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Speaker 5: The doors are closing, heading to Alamo Draft House Cinema Tempe.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, here we go.

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Speaker 6: Your seatbelts.

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Speaker 2: We sit in the back. You have to sit in

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Speaker 2: the back of Weimo. If we lean slightly forward, we

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Speaker 2: can see the van's steering wheel turning all by itself.

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Speaker 2: This car is not capable of breaking the speed.

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Speaker 3: Of Well, I'm curious about that. That's a good question, right,

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Speaker 3: Like what if we had to?

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Speaker 1: What if can I enter?

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Speaker 2: Like my wife is pregnant and we're rushing to the hospital.

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Speaker 3: I think the only things we could do is press

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Speaker 3: a button. This is pull over. If we were scared

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Speaker 3: or something. I see that, what does it pullover?

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Speaker 2: We do not pull over. We cruise down the streets

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Speaker 2: of Chandler, somewhere unseen of them, and artificial intelligences are

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Speaker 2: guiding us unerringly towards our destination the Alamo Draft House,

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Speaker 2: Cinema and Tempe. We approach Attorney Toyota with a student

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Speaker 2: driver nervously navigating an intersection.

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Speaker 4: Oh god, the irony.

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Speaker 2: A human, a human learning a task that will, within

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Speaker 2: years of its completion, be obsolete.

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Speaker 3: And it's in that human's rear view mirror is the

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Speaker 3: future of that?

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Speaker 2: We must We should yank that driver, the student driver,

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Speaker 2: out and just say why don't you learn? Why don't

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Speaker 2: you learn to type on a manual typewriter? That's about

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Speaker 2: as useful. Here's a BlackBerry, send some messages. Look, there's

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Speaker 2: a student loser. Did we realize in that moment what

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Speaker 2: weima would mean for our future, for all of our future?

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Speaker 4: Not yet.

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Speaker 2: We were still in the blisstate. My epiphany would not

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Speaker 2: come until later that afternoon, when I found myself sprinting

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Speaker 2: desperately alongside our weimo.

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Speaker 1: Let's go Weimo.

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Speaker 2: What Jacob looked on helplessly from the backseat. Women doesn't

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Speaker 2: know what he's doing? Ash woman knows what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't know what I'm doing. Well, come back to this,

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Speaker 2: I promise.

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Speaker 1: He thinks he's gotten away from me, not so fast,

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Speaker 1: my friend.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever watched videos from tech conferences like TED?

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Speaker 2: The signature TED conference is an annual gathering of people

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Speaker 2: who are excited about technology talking to people who are

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Speaker 2: excited about technology, about how exciting technology is? You know

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Speaker 2: the type turtlenecks way into bitcoin. Picture of Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: on the home screen of the iPhone twelve pro max.

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Speaker 7: So In eighteen eighty five, Carl Bens invented the automobile.

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Speaker 7: Later that year, he took it out of the first

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Speaker 7: public test drive and true story, crashed into a wall.

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Speaker 2: TED conferences always have at least one speaker gliding across

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Speaker 2: the stage, clicking through powerpoints on the future of the automobile.

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Speaker 7: For the last one hundred and thirty years, we've been

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Speaker 7: working around that least reliable part of the car, of

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Speaker 7: the driver.

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Speaker 6: We may be the last generation to own cars. Our

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Speaker 6: kids and grandkids. They may never have to learn to drive.

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Speaker 6: They may never have to worry about driving around and

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Speaker 6: looking for parking or speeding tickets or drunk driving. And

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Speaker 6: the best part is they could go their entire life

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Speaker 6: without ever seeing a car accident. Driverless cars are being

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Speaker 6: touted as one of the most disruptive technologies of our time.

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Speaker 2: Are you skeptical? I know some of you are. While

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Speaker 2: Jacob and I were cruising around the suburbs of Phoenix,

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Speaker 2: I took a video from the backseat of our Weimo

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Speaker 2: of the steering wheel turning by itself as the houses

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Speaker 2: and sidewalks whosh past. I tweeted out the video and

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Speaker 2: watched from the back seat as the replies flooded in,

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Speaker 2: comments like I would be freaking out the entire time.

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Speaker 2: Been very nice listening to your podcasts. Your upcoming demise

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Speaker 2: is a great loss. This will all end in tears.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are frightened by the idea of

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Speaker 2: a self driving car, but let me tell you don't

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Speaker 2: be frightened. From the moment we got in the minivan,

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Speaker 2: neither Jacob nor I could believe what a calming, measured,

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Speaker 2: completely zen experience we were having. Right now, it's slowing

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Speaker 2: for a speed bump. Oh, nicely done, Mamo. There's no

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Speaker 2: way I would have I didn't even know. I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: even I would have gone boom over that thing. Weimo

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Speaker 2: slowed smoothly for a stoplight, kept a respectful distance from

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Speaker 2: other drivers. One time we encountered a man in a

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Speaker 2: wheelchair sharing the road. Weimo decelerated elegantly, gave him a

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Speaker 2: generous berth, then cautiously pulled away.

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Speaker 3: I also have to say totally trust the thing, like

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Speaker 3: I have not thought for a second.

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Speaker 4: I feel safe. Yeah, this is a safe space.

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Speaker 1: This is an automotive safe space.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you one thing. It's certainly a safer space

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Speaker 2: in the passenger see of my car when I'm driving.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we just got someone just pulled out in front

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Speaker 3: of us.

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Speaker 1: Anticipated the second person slowed right down. That was some

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Speaker 1: great defensive driving.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we encountered some terrible driving from another vehicle. We

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Speaker 3: just cut across like six lanes and Weimo kind of unfazed.

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Speaker 4: Way might handle it.

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Speaker 1: Well like a pro.

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Speaker 2: We reached our destination, the Alamo Cinema Draft House parking lot.

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Speaker 2: We were so excited we decided to call up Sashwat

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Speaker 2: Penny Grahi, the senior director of product management at Weimo.

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Speaker 2: We had so much to ask him about, Like all

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Speaker 2: the sensors on our minivan, so we have we have

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Speaker 2: a few.

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Speaker 5: So are you clearly on the doom what you're seeing

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Speaker 5: on the doom at the top that's that's where we

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Speaker 5: have a nineteen camera complex over there. So those are

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Speaker 5: cameras plus two lasers. One is a medium range, one

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Speaker 5: is a long range.

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Speaker 2: The lasers are technically light our systems three D scanners.

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Speaker 2: It's what NASA uses when they land on Mars. The

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Speaker 2: laser looks around and instantly creates an incredibly detailed map

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Speaker 2: of everything in its range.

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Speaker 5: So that can see almost three football fields.

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Speaker 2: So wait, wait three three foot that can see three

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Speaker 2: hundred yards in every direction.

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Speaker 5: That's right, that's right. Wow, So we yeah, and you

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Speaker 5: know it can become very helpful. You may have realized.

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Speaker 5: I noticed this as you were going on forty five

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Speaker 5: miles per hour roots in Phoenix. The harder the speed,

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Speaker 5: the longer the car needs to reason about is anything

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Speaker 5: coming at that speed?

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Speaker 8: Right if it's a very.

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Speaker 5: Low speed seeing shorter distances. Okay, So those are the

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Speaker 5: you know, medium and long range riders, and that's why

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Speaker 5: they're placed atop as well, because you know you need

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Speaker 5: a wider range view very well complimented by those smaller

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Speaker 5: spinning things you must have seen on the sides of

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Speaker 5: the cars. Yeah, and so that helps. For example, imagine

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Speaker 5: you were in a busy parking lot in front of

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Speaker 5: a Costco or a Walmart. Cars are part very close

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Speaker 5: to each other.

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Speaker 2: Because he went on sensors on the back, right, on

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Speaker 2: the side, microphones to pick up things like a police siren.

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Speaker 2: I asked sash Watt whether WEIMO had a blind spot

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Speaker 2: like anything. It couldn't see.

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Speaker 5: One clarification, Malcolm, when you said blind spot, did you

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Speaker 5: mean the classical blind spot in our human driving? You know,

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Speaker 5: for example, you're trained when you get your driving license

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Speaker 5: to not just rely on your side camera.

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Speaker 4: You just check.

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Speaker 9: Oh no, absolutely not, so.

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Speaker 2: That we do not have absolutely not. WEIMO has no

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Speaker 2: blind spots. Arizona has a dubious distinction of being one

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Speaker 2: of the most dangerous states in the country for pedestrians,

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Speaker 2: with Phoenix as the prime culprit. This is not a

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Speaker 2: city designed for anything but the convenience of automobiles. What

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Speaker 2: a city full of Chrysler PACIFICA hybrids tricked out with radar, lightar,

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Speaker 2: nineteen cameras, microphones, and the ability to see three hundred

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Speaker 2: yards in every direction make Phoenix safer? Yes, it would,

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Speaker 2: But the future will get even better than that, way

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Speaker 2: more better. I need to take you on a brief

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Speaker 2: digression away from the sunny streets of Phoenix to a

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Speaker 2: call I had with Roseanne McManus, a professor of political

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Speaker 2: science and international affairs at Penn State. McManus specializes in

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Speaker 2: what's known as deterrence theory. Why do some conflicts lead

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Speaker 2: to war and others just fizzle out?

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Speaker 10: If there's complete information and so you know exactly how

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Speaker 10: cost the other side finds war to be and how

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Speaker 10: likely each side is to win. If you fight, then

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Speaker 10: there's really no opportunity to bluff, and there should be

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Speaker 10: no war because both sides know what would happen if

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Speaker 10: you did fight a war, and so if one side

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Speaker 10: is more powerful and they would win, then deterrence would

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Speaker 10: work perfectly, and deterrence would never fail and life would

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Speaker 10: be really simple.

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Speaker 2: What McManus means is that if I'm rational and you

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Speaker 2: are rational, and I know your intentions and capability and

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Speaker 2: you know mine, then we're not going to go to war.

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Speaker 2: Neither of us can effectively blackmail each other or make

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Speaker 2: a threat or intimidate. Under the rational scenario, if you

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Speaker 2: say I'll nuke, if you cross that line, I'd just

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Speaker 2: roll my eyes and say, no, you won't You're not

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Speaker 2: blowing up the world because I crossed a line. But

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Speaker 2: what if you're just a little bit crazy? McManus is

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Speaker 2: one of a number of deterrence theorists who has thought

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Speaker 2: about this possible ability. By crazy, McManus doesn't mean completely psychotic.

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Speaker 2: She just means somewhat irrational. What if you are possessed

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Speaker 2: of and this is the phrase she uses extreme preferences,

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Speaker 2: That is that you really want certain things and are

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Speaker 2: willing to pay an insanely high price to get those

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Speaker 2: certain things. If you are a little bit crazy like that,

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Speaker 2: then I'm terrified because I really don't know whether you'd

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Speaker 2: risk millions of dead to get what you want. McManus

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Speaker 2: says this was exactly the situation before the Second World

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Speaker 2: War when the British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain famously believed

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Speaker 2: Hitler when Hitler said he wasn't out to wage a

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Speaker 2: total war.

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Speaker 11: I'm going to have another talk with hair Hitler, only

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Speaker 11: this time he has told me that it is his

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Speaker 11: intention to come halfway to meet me.

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Speaker 2: So walk us through that scenario, that what happened there

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Speaker 2: and why that perception of Hitler allowed him to get

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Speaker 2: his way.

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Speaker 10: So he's negotiating with Chamberlain, who doesn't really want to

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Speaker 10: have another war, having just had World War One not

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Speaker 10: too long ago, and he tells Chamberlain, look, I'm a

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Speaker 10: German nationalist. The German people in the student land are suffering.

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Speaker 10: I want to unify all Germans. That's that's my mission

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Speaker 10: in life. And you know, I'll do anything to unify

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Speaker 10: all the Germans. But once I've unified all the Germans,

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Speaker 10: I'm going to stop, and that's going to be it,

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Speaker 10: and I'm going to be contented.

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Speaker 2: So that's his extreme preference. He will do anything to

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Speaker 2: unify Germans. That's how he's presenting himself exactly.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and it seems like Chamberlain believed that he believed

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Speaker 10: it at at least enough to give it a shot

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Speaker 10: and to make this deal with Hitler.

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Speaker 2: In the world of deterrence, this is called the Madman theory.

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Speaker 2: McManus argues that people in any conflict may have an

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Speaker 2: advantage if the other side perceives them as being just

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Speaker 2: a little bit but not entirely nuts. If you can

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Speaker 2: successfully convince your opponent that that is the way your

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Speaker 2: mind works, you can get your way in a negotiating

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Speaker 2: in a blackmailing or negotiating context in a way you

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Speaker 2: couldn't otherwise. That's your essential argument.

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Speaker 10: Yes, that's my argument. Now, I think it actually is

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Speaker 10: rather hard to create that perception. Hitler is really the

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Speaker 10: only successful example that I've come up with so far.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want to give you another example, which is

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Speaker 2: why I called you. But it's not in your world.

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Speaker 2: It's in a slightly different world. It's about deterrence, right,

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Speaker 2: This is where we get to the heart of it.

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Speaker 2: Not deterrence among global superpowers bristling with weapons, No, the

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Speaker 2: kind of ordinary, low grade calculations we make every day

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Speaker 2: as a pedestrian. Why do I not just walk out

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Speaker 2: in front of other cars? I don't believe that they're

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Speaker 2: they might hit me because they're emotional or crazy or something.

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Speaker 2: They have a series of, as you say, extreme what's

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Speaker 2: the phrase again, extreme preferences, extreme preferences. They might be

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Speaker 2: more interested in their text texts at there, at that

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Speaker 2: moment than me walking in front of them, right, And

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Speaker 2: so that's the reason most people don't jaywalk, right, because

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Speaker 2: there is that deterrence. Yes, Now, before we get back

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Speaker 2: to autonomous vehicles and the glorious morning, Jacob and I

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Speaker 2: spent riding way mows around the streets of Chandler, Arizona.

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Speaker 2: I want to dwell on the issue of deterrence on

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Speaker 2: the streets because drivers are not rational. I think we

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Speaker 2: sometimes lose side of this fact. I thought professional cyclists,

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Speaker 2: of all people, would have the best perspective on the

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Speaker 2: inherent craziness of drivers. So I called up Lance Armstrong,

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Speaker 2: cyclist extraordinaire who has been actively sharing the road with

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Speaker 2: drivers for almost forty years.

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Speaker 8: Cars freaked me out. Being out on the road and

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Speaker 8: with cars and drivers and distracted drivers.

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Speaker 12: It scares the shit out of me.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, but you know, Malcolm, I actually now prefer the

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Speaker 8: mountain bike just so I can be.

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Speaker 2: Totally away from cars.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm giving a choice on my road bike,

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Speaker 2: I'm going down a road and I see that there's

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Speaker 2: a bike path, even if there's people with baby strollers

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Speaker 2: and walkers and dogs.

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Speaker 4: I always take the bike path.

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Speaker 8: I just I don't want to have to think about,

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Speaker 8: you know, cars and people checking out their cell phone

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Speaker 8: or having a few cocktails. And they freaked me out.

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Speaker 2: This is Lance Armstrong, a man so utterly and completely

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Speaker 2: badass that he would happily go out on a bike

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Speaker 2: for one hundred plus miles in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: southern French summer, riding it insane speeds up and down

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Speaker 2: massive mountains. I'm a runner. I think runners are the

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Speaker 2: greatest thing.

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Speaker 1: Ever.

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Speaker 2: We're not as tough as cyclists, not even close. But

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Speaker 2: even Lance, badass Lance is so scared of drivers that

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Speaker 2: he would rather mountain bike or take the bike path

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Speaker 2: with the parents and the dogs. Have you ever been

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Speaker 2: hit by car?

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Speaker 5: Of course?

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Speaker 10: Oh?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, many times?

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Speaker 4: How many times? How many times?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I say many times?

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Speaker 12: I mean probably, look we're getting hit.

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Speaker 10: Once is too many.

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Speaker 8: I'd probably ride around five. The two worst ones was

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Speaker 8: when I was young, I ran a yellow light on

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Speaker 8: my bike and outside of a Dallas and suburbs where

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Speaker 8: I grew up, and I got to the intersection and

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Speaker 8: I turned yeall. I was like, I got this.

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Speaker 2: Well, I made it five of the six lanes and

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Speaker 2: the six land lady was coming and just heading straight

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Speaker 2: from the sides and I was banged up, but okay.

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Speaker 2: Then there was a time he was bombing down some

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Speaker 2: empty French country road, hadn't seen a car in an hour? Well, shit,

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Speaker 2: sure enough, come around the corner and this old farmer

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Speaker 2: just coming the other way, and just I clipped right

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Speaker 2: the front and I cracked two vertebra.

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Speaker 12: You could be dead.

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Speaker 8: Well yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

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Speaker 2: Of course. Next I called up Jonathan Voters, another former

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Speaker 2: professional cyclist. He and Lance were teammates at one point.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure Lance wasn't an exception. No

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Speaker 2: Votters just as terrified.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean. The first driver I fear the most

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Speaker 8: is just is you know, someone who's not paying attention

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Speaker 8: for whatever reason that is. They're reaching for a hamburger,

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Speaker 8: they're texting on their phone, they're arguing with their kids,

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Speaker 8: whatever it is. They're distracted, and they basically just sort

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Speaker 8: of weave into you. This is one reason that actually,

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Speaker 8: when I teach people how to ride in traffic, I

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Speaker 8: often teach them to ride actually further out. If you're

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Speaker 8: further out in the road, it actually forces you into

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Speaker 8: the line of vision of the driver. The second type

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Speaker 8: of driver that I fear is just angry. They don't

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Speaker 8: want you there as a cyclist. They feel that the

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Speaker 8: road is theirs and that you are impeding their progress

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Speaker 8: to getting to their destination, and they want to run

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Speaker 8: you over. And maybe they realize, oh, that there's you know,

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Speaker 8: there are consequences for me running over this cyclist, but

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Speaker 8: they're viewing you as essentially like subhuman.

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Speaker 2: The willingness to risk killing a cyclist because they might

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Speaker 2: slow you down for a few seconds is, of course,

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Speaker 2: the textbook definition of an extreme preference.

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Speaker 8: There's a multi billion dollar industry, I should say, built

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Speaker 8: upon fear of traffic peloton swift. These are you know,

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Speaker 8: in home ding a bike and whatever, pieces of equipment, hardware, software,

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Speaker 8: that are entirely a result of people being afraid to

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Speaker 8: ride in traffic.

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Speaker 2: To voters, riding a stationary bicycle makes no sense, I mean,

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Speaker 2: why would you do that? The whole point of riding

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Speaker 2: a bike is the thrill of movement, the wind in

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Speaker 2: your hair, the adventure of going somewhere. But millions of

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Speaker 2: Americans only feel truly safe peddling in their basements.

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Speaker 8: To me, the only possible explanation for that, well, they're

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Speaker 8: two possible explanations, that society as a whole have gone insane.

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Speaker 12: Or that people are just you know, that they're afraid

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Speaker 12: of traffic and afraid of cars, which quite logically, you know,

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Speaker 12: makes sense that they would.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so I don't think We've gone insane.

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Speaker 2: Yet there is a reason why when you drive down

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Speaker 2: the street, cyclists and runners and pedestrians aren't inundating you, competing.

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Speaker 1: For the road.

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Speaker 2: They're afraid of you. You and why are they afraid?

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Speaker 2: Because you're nuts? And in any confrontation that madman has

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Speaker 2: the upper hand. All drivers are nuts, with one exception.

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Speaker 4: Weimo.

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Speaker 2: Weymo doesn't have emotions. Weymo doesn't text. Weymo doesn't eat

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Speaker 2: a burger and drive with his knees. Weimo doesn't get

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Speaker 2: angry if you behave like an idiot. Weimo doesn't give

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Speaker 2: you the finger. Waymo doesn't do road rage. Weimo wants

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Speaker 2: to live and let live. Weimo is your grandmother, only

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Speaker 2: with lightning reflexes and perfect vision to three hundred yards.

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Speaker 2: In a world of Weimo's, cars aren't the mad men anymore.

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Speaker 2: But if cars aren't the madmen, guess who.

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Speaker 4: Gets to be crazy.

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Speaker 2: The answer is obvious, my friends, we do. I will

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Speaker 2: admit that I was slow to grasp the actual implicatations

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Speaker 2: of autonomous driving. I'd been too busy watching all those

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Speaker 2: ted talks where the Silicon Valley types explain the self

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Speaker 2: driving tech utopia, where everyone behaves with the unruffled rationality

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Speaker 2: of an engineering major at Stanford University. But one day

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Speaker 2: I stumbled upon a brilliant essay by an economist named

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Speaker 2: Adam Millard Ball. His paper reads like the academic version

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Speaker 2: of the Hans Christian Anderson story The Emperor's New Clothes.

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Speaker 9: This was framed as a technological problem. It was framed

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Speaker 9: as a space where we just need to figure out

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Speaker 9: the right programming another technological solutions.

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Speaker 2: To Millard Ball, the issue with autonomous vehicles was people,

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Speaker 2: specifically the people outside the vehicle.

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Speaker 9: So if you're a pedestrian and you have that confidence

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Speaker 9: that the autonomous vehicle is going to stop and yeel

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Speaker 9: to you as legally it should, then there's nothing to

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Speaker 9: stop you from taking that right of way.

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Speaker 2: Pedestrians and drivers now engage in a dangerous game of chicken,

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Speaker 2: each daring the other to do something stupid. But if

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Speaker 2: weamo takes over the rules of that game change.

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Speaker 9: If you know that the other player is much more

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Speaker 9: cautious and it's likely to follow the rules, then you're

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Speaker 9: going to win. When you're playing check in, it helps

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Speaker 9: to be the most crazy player in the game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the roles have reversed in a certain way

405
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Speaker 2: that it used to be. The thing that puts fear

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Speaker 2: into your heart as a pedestrian is the unknown preferences

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Speaker 2: and the unpredictability of the driver. But now we've flipped it.

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Speaker 2: The driver has become the car has become entirely sane

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Speaker 2: and rational. It's preferences right, and that allows you to

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Speaker 2: be unpredictable as the pedestrian.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, and it gives you an incentive to be seen

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Speaker 9: to be unpredictable.

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Speaker 2: With that line, hold on, explain that why does it

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Speaker 2: give you an incentive to be seen as unpredictable.

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Speaker 9: The more unpredictable you seem, so the more you could

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Speaker 9: behave like you're intoxicated or distracted. Then be its equivalent

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Speaker 9: of being a five year old child on the street.

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Speaker 9: The autonomous circle is likely to recognize that unpredictability and

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Speaker 9: be more cautious.

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Speaker 2: Accordingly, Oh, I see, it's in my interest to be

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Speaker 2: as flagrant in my unpredictability as possible, because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to be so subtle that the car doesn't pick

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Speaker 2: it up. I want to make sure that if I'm

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Speaker 2: going to transgress the rules of the road, I should

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Speaker 2: do so as flagrantly and flamboyantly as I can.

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Speaker 9: You need to be obvious about it. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: If we imagine we wave a wand and we say

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Speaker 2: tomorrow every car in New York City or London will

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Speaker 2: be autonomous, doesn't that mean that we have immediate gridlock,

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Speaker 2: or at least once pedestrians catch on to their newfound power.

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Speaker 2: How on earth do cars move around a city.

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Speaker 9: That's a great question, and I'm not sure that they do.

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Speaker 9: And I'm not sure either that that's a completely bad outcome.

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Speaker 2: Not a completely bad outcome, it's a fantastic outcome. The

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Speaker 2: experts have thrown in the towel, given up on rational

436
00:25:37,156 --> 00:25:40,396
Speaker 2: city streets, where algorithms and sensors and light our create

437
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Speaker 2: perfect order out of disorder. No, they're saying the future

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Speaker 2: is mayhem, and I'm not sure that's a completely bad outcome.

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Speaker 2: Kids can play stickball on the streets of New York

440
00:25:51,356 --> 00:25:54,876
Speaker 2: City again like they did in the nineteen twenties. Cyclists

441
00:25:55,076 --> 00:25:57,716
Speaker 2: can ride in packs down the middle of the interstate.

442
00:25:58,036 --> 00:26:00,316
Speaker 2: You spot a friend on the other side of the street,

443
00:26:00,436 --> 00:26:04,236
Speaker 2: and you shout out hey, and you impulsively run across

444
00:26:04,316 --> 00:26:07,836
Speaker 2: the street, across multiple lanes of traffic, and you give them.

445
00:26:07,676 --> 00:26:08,276
Speaker 1: A big hug.

446
00:26:10,796 --> 00:26:12,996
Speaker 2: My Running Club meets on a crowded track on the

447
00:26:12,996 --> 00:26:16,116
Speaker 2: lower east side of Manhattan, where speedy runners compete with

448
00:26:16,356 --> 00:26:20,196
Speaker 2: arrant soccer balls and children running free and old folks

449
00:26:20,276 --> 00:26:24,076
Speaker 2: out for a ramble. Fifty yards away is the FDR

450
00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:30,356
Speaker 2: drive wide undulating ribbons of smooth, inviting blacktop. In the

451
00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:33,676
Speaker 2: autonomous future, we are totally going to do our workouts

452
00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:37,476
Speaker 2: on the FDR hat rush hour, A hundred of us

453
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:42,076
Speaker 2: and the way moos will sit patiently until we finish.

454
00:26:42,836 --> 00:26:45,516
Speaker 2: Do you understand how awesome the future is?

455
00:26:47,076 --> 00:26:56,316
Speaker 1: We get the streets back, we are arrived.

456
00:26:56,756 --> 00:27:00,076
Speaker 6: Please check your surroundings for exiting the vehicle, and remember

457
00:27:00,116 --> 00:27:01,916
Speaker 6: to go through these after exis.

458
00:27:02,996 --> 00:27:07,036
Speaker 2: Back in Tempe, Arizona, Jacob and I are wandering the

459
00:27:07,076 --> 00:27:10,356
Speaker 2: parking lot of the Alamo Draft House them a deep

460
00:27:10,396 --> 00:27:14,356
Speaker 2: in conversation. We're not here for a movie. We're here

461
00:27:14,396 --> 00:27:18,076
Speaker 2: to test out our newly realized power as pedestrians. And

462
00:27:18,236 --> 00:27:21,036
Speaker 2: first thing we do we call another Weymo.

463
00:27:21,596 --> 00:27:24,236
Speaker 1: When Weymo pulls up is try and spook him with

464
00:27:24,276 --> 00:27:26,516
Speaker 1: beach ball. Okay, a beach ball.

465
00:27:27,036 --> 00:27:30,636
Speaker 2: Jacob has one folded up in his bag. We quickly inflated,

466
00:27:30,916 --> 00:27:32,396
Speaker 2: but I could start coming.

467
00:27:32,676 --> 00:27:43,316
Speaker 4: Three comes, all right, bring it, bring here, okay, way

468
00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:43,956
Speaker 4: most coming.

469
00:27:44,396 --> 00:27:47,876
Speaker 2: We get inside the Weimo. Jacob stays outside holding the

470
00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:51,116
Speaker 2: beach ball. Let's see how Wimo responds to a beach

471
00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:53,836
Speaker 2: ball's throne, because it's known in the literature.

472
00:27:53,476 --> 00:27:54,356
Speaker 1: As the beach ball test.

473
00:27:54,676 --> 00:27:56,476
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna should I do a gentle role? What

474
00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:58,076
Speaker 3: should I just float it up in front?

475
00:27:58,116 --> 00:28:00,236
Speaker 1: Or should be like hold on? Okay, okay.

476
00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:03,596
Speaker 2: Jacob doesn't hurl the beach ball at Weymo. He gently

477
00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:06,876
Speaker 2: floats it in the direction of Weimo. An errant beach

478
00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:09,076
Speaker 2: ball that retaels from maybe four.

479
00:28:10,236 --> 00:28:12,556
Speaker 3: Beach ball thrown, and it stopped short. I might have

480
00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:14,356
Speaker 3: broken Welcome's neck that.

481
00:28:14,396 --> 00:28:18,116
Speaker 2: Time Weimo slammed on his brakes slammed.

482
00:28:18,836 --> 00:28:20,356
Speaker 3: I was a little worried about you. It stoped so

483
00:28:20,476 --> 00:28:23,996
Speaker 3: short that tests stopped about as hard as you know,

484
00:28:24,596 --> 00:28:26,156
Speaker 3: which makes me wonder, like will it stop her?

485
00:28:26,556 --> 00:28:26,876
Speaker 5: Birds?

486
00:28:26,876 --> 00:28:29,956
Speaker 3: Stop this thing? Like this is not the biggest beach

487
00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:32,676
Speaker 3: ball in the world. That was fourteen inch beach ball.

488
00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:34,716
Speaker 4: That was super impressive.

489
00:28:34,836 --> 00:28:36,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't a threatening beach ball.

490
00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:39,476
Speaker 2: It's a beach ball thrown with love not anger.

491
00:28:39,636 --> 00:28:43,636
Speaker 3: Floated out's right like gently lofted and it.

492
00:28:43,996 --> 00:28:46,396
Speaker 1: Weimo was like, this is not happening on my watch.

493
00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:48,876
Speaker 4: I'm stopping this right now.

494
00:28:49,636 --> 00:28:52,836
Speaker 2: Weimo was not going to harm a hair on the

495
00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:56,556
Speaker 2: head of that beach ball. The beach ball test left

496
00:28:56,636 --> 00:29:00,676
Speaker 2: us drunk with power, so I said to Jacob, I'm

497
00:29:00,676 --> 00:29:02,996
Speaker 2: going for a run. Jacob, what the first thing is

498
00:29:02,996 --> 00:29:05,396
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do is I'm gonna try and outrun the

499
00:29:05,396 --> 00:29:06,876
Speaker 2: way Mo, and then I'm gonna cut in front.

500
00:29:06,876 --> 00:29:07,876
Speaker 1: We're gonna see what happens.

501
00:29:11,756 --> 00:29:13,156
Speaker 6: Please make sure your seatbelt.

502
00:29:13,556 --> 00:29:16,916
Speaker 2: Jacob gets in the Weymo in order to monitor Weamo's movements.

503
00:29:17,436 --> 00:29:21,276
Speaker 2: I do a few warm up stretches. I'm gonna run beside.

504
00:29:21,596 --> 00:29:23,036
Speaker 2: I'm gonna run in front of the Waymo and see

505
00:29:23,076 --> 00:29:23,516
Speaker 2: what happens.

506
00:29:23,596 --> 00:29:28,236
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go. Way Mo's moving way most moving. Wait,

507
00:29:28,236 --> 00:29:28,996
Speaker 1: where's he going?

508
00:29:30,076 --> 00:29:34,316
Speaker 2: Come on, we moo, come on, we moo stopping starting

509
00:29:34,956 --> 00:29:36,756
Speaker 2: He's I think I'm making him nervous.

510
00:29:37,636 --> 00:29:39,436
Speaker 1: Come on, wey Mo, come on.

511
00:29:39,796 --> 00:29:42,196
Speaker 2: Wait minutesn't know what I'm doing, and now he won't move.

512
00:29:42,276 --> 00:29:45,516
Speaker 2: This is actually Waimo is the most gracious. Oh he's

513
00:29:45,556 --> 00:29:49,116
Speaker 2: taken Wo's gone the other direction, now running alongside Weymouth

514
00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:49,956
Speaker 2: way more stopped.

515
00:29:51,876 --> 00:29:55,036
Speaker 1: I'm making way more nervous. Let's go Waymo, Let's go,

516
00:29:55,356 --> 00:29:56,316
Speaker 1: let's go, let's go.

517
00:29:57,276 --> 00:30:02,516
Speaker 2: I'm out running Waymouth Cutmo, way moos come to us.

518
00:30:02,516 --> 00:30:09,716
Speaker 1: Stop now Wemo is trying to get around me. Let's see.

519
00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:16,436
Speaker 1: This is exhausting. Let's go way more stopping again. I'm

520
00:30:16,476 --> 00:30:17,276
Speaker 1: gonna let him.

521
00:30:20,156 --> 00:30:23,436
Speaker 2: Whom doesn't know what he's doing. Actually, woman knows what

522
00:30:23,516 --> 00:30:27,396
Speaker 2: he's doing. He doesn't know what I'm doing when m's

523
00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:31,076
Speaker 2: going the other direction. Now he thinks he's gotten away

524
00:30:31,116 --> 00:30:31,356
Speaker 2: from me.

525
00:30:32,676 --> 00:30:34,116
Speaker 1: Not so fast, my friend.

526
00:30:36,156 --> 00:30:39,356
Speaker 2: Wee must don't come back to a stop. I'm messing

527
00:30:39,436 --> 00:30:44,196
Speaker 2: with Wimo's head cutting in front of weymou. Wait what

528
00:30:44,356 --> 00:30:48,836
Speaker 2: is Waymo want to do here? I wonder if w

529
00:30:49,116 --> 00:30:49,676
Speaker 2: was angry at me?

530
00:30:49,996 --> 00:30:55,036
Speaker 13: Now he's taking off. Oh he comes through hall Waymo

531
00:30:55,196 --> 00:31:00,156
Speaker 13: is freaked out, freaked out. He thinks he's going. He's

532
00:31:00,156 --> 00:31:02,596
Speaker 13: got ahead of me. I'm gonna catch him.

533
00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:20,316
Speaker 1: Wait, how dud you let me get in Waimo stop.

534
00:31:25,156 --> 00:31:28,796
Speaker 2: Weimo was the perfect gentleman. He let me be the

535
00:31:28,876 --> 00:31:29,436
Speaker 2: crazy one.

536
00:31:30,196 --> 00:31:31,636
Speaker 1: Remember this the next time.

537
00:31:31,596 --> 00:31:35,996
Speaker 2: Some Silicon Valley Visionary promises you a future of perfect mobility,

538
00:31:36,316 --> 00:31:43,276
Speaker 2: efficiency and clarity from the backseat of an autonomous vehicle. No, no, no,

539
00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:48,196
Speaker 2: it's much better than that. It's me and Lance and

540
00:31:48,316 --> 00:31:51,796
Speaker 2: Jonathan Vaughters and Jacob with his beach ball taking back

541
00:31:51,836 --> 00:31:52,196
Speaker 2: the road.

542
00:31:53,276 --> 00:31:54,236
Speaker 1: I love you, WEIMO.

543
00:32:02,476 --> 00:32:05,676
Speaker 2: Revisious History is produced by me LaBelle Lehman Gesteu and

544
00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:09,836
Speaker 2: Jacob Smith with Eloise Linton and on an Eye. Our

545
00:32:09,996 --> 00:32:13,956
Speaker 2: editor is Julia Barton. Original scoring by Luis Kerra, mastering

546
00:32:14,036 --> 00:32:18,516
Speaker 2: by Fln Williams, and engineering by Martin Gonzalez. Fact checking

547
00:32:18,676 --> 00:32:22,796
Speaker 2: by Amy Gaines. Special thanks to the Pushkin crew had

548
00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:27,476
Speaker 2: a fine Carly MCGLIORI, Maya Canig, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler,

549
00:32:27,836 --> 00:32:32,436
Speaker 2: Nicole Morano, Jason Gambrel and of course Jacob Eisberg.

550
00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:33,836
Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Babba.

551
00:32:41,116 --> 00:32:44,756
Speaker 2: Don't forget my latest book, The Bomber Mafia, which is

552
00:32:44,796 --> 00:32:47,916
Speaker 2: an expansion of several episodes from the last season of

553
00:32:47,996 --> 00:32:51,156
Speaker 2: Revisionist History. You can find it wherever books are sold,

554
00:32:51,836 --> 00:32:55,676
Speaker 2: but by the audiobook at Bombermafia dot com and you'll

555
00:32:55,676 --> 00:32:58,356
Speaker 2: get a bonus listener's guide and you can listen in

556
00:32:58,476 --> 00:33:00,276
Speaker 2: the podcast app you're using now.

557
00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:09,036
Speaker 1: Awesome. We got our first response to the tree.

558
00:33:09,956 --> 00:33:11,156
Speaker 4: This will all end in tears.

559
00:33:11,316 --> 00:33:13,796
Speaker 1: Oh yes it will. It will, but not the only.

560
00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:18,836
Speaker 4: Things to many DiscT we get one in the bad.

561
00:33:18,956 --> 00:33:20,716
Speaker 4: Don't take something you see a brick weekend, but you.

562
00:33:20,756 --> 00:33:23,276
Speaker 3: Spent will be like to see.

563
00:33:24,956 --> 00:33:35,076
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's perfect. Ghost Ride the whip ghost ride,

564
00:33:35,076 --> 00:33:39,836
Speaker 1: the whip Joys. Happy, thank you, walliemam