WEBVTT - Draft Season: Episode 9- How Evaluations Happen, NFL Prospects 0:00:03.462 --> 0:00:06.022 Tape Heeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and 0:00:06.102 --> 0:00:14.182 the NFL. Welcome to another edition and another week as 0:00:14.182 --> 0:00:16.142 we get you ready for the NFL Draft. This is 0:00:16.142 --> 0:00:18.862 Tape Heads Draft Season, a brand new podcast that we're 0:00:18.902 --> 0:00:22.102 doing this season. Bobo schusan longtime radio voice of the 0:00:22.182 --> 0:00:25.422 Jets to college football as well for ESPN, And no 0:00:25.462 --> 0:00:27.982 one has spent more time at NFL films and maybe 0:00:28.022 --> 0:00:31.142 anywhere in the world of breaking down tape than Greg 0:00:31.182 --> 0:00:34.262 co Sell. He of course has been at NFL films 0:00:34.542 --> 0:00:37.582 for over four decades looking at the all twenty two 0:00:37.942 --> 0:00:40.662 and he continues to do that not only for games 0:00:40.662 --> 0:00:43.462 in season and players in season, but also for the 0:00:43.542 --> 0:00:45.982 NFL Draft. Because we look at football players, we kind 0:00:45.982 --> 0:00:48.622 of try to crawl behind the xs and ohs inside 0:00:48.622 --> 0:00:51.662 the game and tell you what the tape says. And Greg, 0:00:52.422 --> 0:00:55.022 in this whole process, since you and I started doing this, 0:00:55.062 --> 0:00:57.862 feels like we snapped our fingers were halfway the draft. Basically, 0:00:57.902 --> 0:01:01.982 we're only a month out from the actual choosing of players, 0:01:02.462 --> 0:01:04.382 but we wanted to start with this week and we're 0:01:04.382 --> 0:01:07.582 gonna talk about some individual guys coming up a little 0:01:07.582 --> 0:01:11.182 bit later on some maybe off the radar prospects some 0:01:11.262 --> 0:01:13.022 guys that have jumped out to you that we haven't 0:01:13.022 --> 0:01:16.662 talked about yet at varying positions. But I think what 0:01:16.742 --> 0:01:20.622 people need to understand is what this process is, right Like, 0:01:20.662 --> 0:01:22.302 That's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to 0:01:22.342 --> 0:01:25.862 explain to you what the actual draft processes for teams, 0:01:26.222 --> 0:01:29.102 not the different mock drafts that pop up on your phone, 0:01:29.502 --> 0:01:32.462 on Twitter or on the Internet every five minutes, but 0:01:32.702 --> 0:01:36.462 how teams actually arrive at putting together the board that 0:01:36.502 --> 0:01:39.622 they will use on draft day and what an evolutionary 0:01:39.742 --> 0:01:43.702 process that is. And right we're about three weeks out 0:01:43.782 --> 0:01:47.582 from the combine. We have done a bunch of pro days. 0:01:48.462 --> 0:01:53.702 Now you're gonna get like visits to the team campuses 0:01:54.102 --> 0:01:57.582 for prospects, things like that. There's still meetings to go on. 0:01:58.222 --> 0:02:00.902 You've been watching tape on these guys for a long time. 0:02:01.422 --> 0:02:05.622 Where would you say your process at this point parallels 0:02:05.862 --> 0:02:09.142 you think how teams approach the draft and where you 0:02:09.182 --> 0:02:12.422 are kind of pie chart was or you know, timeline 0:02:12.662 --> 0:02:16.022 was moving towards putting together an actual board that might 0:02:16.062 --> 0:02:19.222 mirror what the teams the NFL are doing to this point, Well, Bob, 0:02:19.302 --> 0:02:20.822 the way I do it, and because I don't work 0:02:20.822 --> 0:02:24.342 for a team, I don't necessarily get obviously to speak 0:02:24.382 --> 0:02:26.822 with players, to do a lot of the due diligence 0:02:26.822 --> 0:02:29.222 that teams do. I don't have access to all that. 0:02:29.502 --> 0:02:31.102 So what I do is I sit in my office 0:02:31.102 --> 0:02:34.382 at NFL Films, and because I work for Films, I 0:02:34.462 --> 0:02:37.662 have access to all the coaching tape and I just 0:02:37.782 --> 0:02:41.982 basically can watch any player, any game, and I can 0:02:42.022 --> 0:02:43.982 watch it in its entirety. And the way it works 0:02:44.022 --> 0:02:47.142 for me is is what the coaching tape shows you 0:02:47.302 --> 0:02:49.702 is first of a play, it shows you the all 0:02:49.782 --> 0:02:52.222 twenty two from the sidelines, so you can see all 0:02:52.302 --> 0:02:55.982 twenty two players, and then the same play, it's followed 0:02:55.982 --> 0:02:58.622 by an end zone shot of it a little tighter, 0:02:58.862 --> 0:03:01.542 but that's where you see the offensive line, the defensive line, 0:03:01.582 --> 0:03:04.542 the linebackers, the quarterback. If you're looking at the quarterback, 0:03:04.542 --> 0:03:06.782 you can see him in a little more detail. So 0:03:07.502 --> 0:03:11.382 I watch full games of players, and there's certain positions 0:03:11.582 --> 0:03:13.462 where you have to sit and you have to go 0:03:13.622 --> 0:03:16.942 through a full game to get a true feel for 0:03:17.022 --> 0:03:19.982 what a player is. You can't watch just a highlight 0:03:20.142 --> 0:03:23.342 of an offensive lineman making ten great blocks you can't 0:03:23.342 --> 0:03:26.702 watch a highlight of a linebacker making his sixty tackles. 0:03:26.942 --> 0:03:29.422 You have to watch games and you have to see, 0:03:29.622 --> 0:03:33.782 one how they're deployed, because that tells you an awful lot. 0:03:34.022 --> 0:03:35.862 And I'll just give you a very quick example. I 0:03:35.902 --> 0:03:37.942 have no idea what this means for the draft, and 0:03:37.982 --> 0:03:41.102 we haven't spoken about this player in our previous four 0:03:41.142 --> 0:03:44.822 segments yet, but Jordan Davis from Georgia, who obviously blew 0:03:44.902 --> 0:03:47.942 up the combine given his size and his movement, he 0:03:48.022 --> 0:03:51.902 did not play on third down for Georgia. So as 0:03:51.902 --> 0:03:54.622 you project and transition a player like that, you have 0:03:54.702 --> 0:03:57.622 to decide what is its role in the NFL, simply 0:03:57.662 --> 0:03:59.782 because he's a big man and a great athlete, and 0:03:59.822 --> 0:04:02.582 you don't know that he doesn't play on third down 0:04:02.822 --> 0:04:06.022 if you're just watching highlights of him making tackles. So 0:04:06.062 --> 0:04:08.462 you've got to go through games. You've got to see 0:04:08.462 --> 0:04:11.022 how players are deployed. You have to see how often 0:04:11.062 --> 0:04:14.262 they play. A lot of players are rotational players. You 0:04:14.302 --> 0:04:16.742 have to see what happens when they get beat. You 0:04:16.822 --> 0:04:20.142 have to see, for instance, a linebacker how we reacts 0:04:20.302 --> 0:04:23.302 to run plays. Is he's seeing what he's supposed to 0:04:23.342 --> 0:04:27.022 be seeing all This takes time, and you know, as 0:04:27.062 --> 0:04:29.822 I joke with people, I'm a one man scouting service, 0:04:30.062 --> 0:04:32.702 so it takes me a long time to watch as 0:04:32.742 --> 0:04:35.462 many players as I can watch. And I wish I 0:04:35.462 --> 0:04:39.862 could watch five players, but unfortunately I can't. Well, I think, 0:04:39.902 --> 0:04:44.342 but I think the parallel here. You are doing this solo. Obviously, 0:04:44.382 --> 0:04:48.262 teams have departments that are doing but teams also are 0:04:48.342 --> 0:04:52.742 sending scouts to campuses to meet with coaches and to 0:04:53.062 --> 0:04:56.662 watch tape in facilities all during the season. Teams are 0:04:56.822 --> 0:05:00.462 interviewing these players, They are bringing prospects to their facilities, 0:05:00.702 --> 0:05:04.462 they are going to the Combine, they are making visits 0:05:04.502 --> 0:05:07.782 to pro days. Adding all of that up. I mean, 0:05:07.822 --> 0:05:09.902 I don't know if people truly remember talking to Terry 0:05:09.902 --> 0:05:11.662 Bradway one time when he was the general manager of 0:05:11.662 --> 0:05:13.982 the Jets about this, and I said to him, you know, 0:05:14.062 --> 0:05:16.742 you guys in this draft or the average draft, are 0:05:16.742 --> 0:05:19.862 gonna pick seven players, all right, sometimes more, sometimes less, 0:05:19.902 --> 0:05:22.062 but on seven rounds you get one pick per round. 0:05:22.422 --> 0:05:25.862 You're gonna pick seven players in the average draft. Do 0:05:25.982 --> 0:05:28.862 people really understand the number of man hours that you 0:05:28.942 --> 0:05:32.102 put in to get ready for that process? And He's like, 0:05:32.542 --> 0:05:37.582 we fill out about five thousand reports like that in 0:05:37.662 --> 0:05:40.382 their file by the time the draft. Actually, the whole 0:05:40.382 --> 0:05:42.942 process is done, and we are setting the board and 0:05:42.942 --> 0:05:44.862 we are ready for our meetings. We're gonna sit in 0:05:44.862 --> 0:05:47.942 the room and everybody's gonna have their say about who 0:05:48.022 --> 0:05:49.942 they think are the under the radar guys, who they 0:05:50.022 --> 0:05:52.622 think are our highest priority. We're gonna set our board 0:05:52.662 --> 0:05:57.102 in our needs, about five thousand reports will be written. 0:05:57.102 --> 0:06:00.262 Now if we need a quarterback. You know, when the 0:06:00.302 --> 0:06:03.102 Jets ad Zack Wilson as the second pick in the draft, 0:06:03.502 --> 0:06:06.342 they might have had twenty five reports on Zach Wilson. 0:06:06.542 --> 0:06:09.822 They probably sent everybody to go see Zach Wilson, right, 0:06:09.942 --> 0:06:12.422 everybody had a chance to go either watches tape, go 0:06:12.502 --> 0:06:15.182 to games, visit the campus, talk to the coaches, all 0:06:15.222 --> 0:06:19.022 of that. They might have one report on a defensive 0:06:19.022 --> 0:06:22.742 tackle at Montana that caught someone's eye when they were 0:06:22.782 --> 0:06:25.782 at the you know whatever, the the one Double A playoffs. 0:06:26.222 --> 0:06:29.862 But add it all up, you're talking about five thousand 0:06:29.982 --> 0:06:33.302 written reports to draft seven guys. It takes a long 0:06:33.502 --> 0:06:36.462 time to accumulate all that information. And that's why I 0:06:36.502 --> 0:06:38.782 think people need to realize that no matter how many 0:06:38.822 --> 0:06:43.062 mock drafts you see right now, don't overreact to those 0:06:43.102 --> 0:06:45.542 mock drafts or what you think people are hearing. The 0:06:45.582 --> 0:06:50.142 teams themselves are still in the process, very much in 0:06:50.142 --> 0:06:53.862 the process, very much dealing with the unknown. Still I 0:06:53.902 --> 0:06:55.942 think of how their board probably will shake out come 0:06:56.022 --> 0:06:58.502 draft Day, and and just to show you, Bob how 0:06:58.542 --> 0:07:01.462 crazy I am, what I often do is, you know, 0:07:01.502 --> 0:07:04.582 I get four or five weeks vacation here, films, and 0:07:05.342 --> 0:07:07.662 a lot of times I don't really go anywhere. So 0:07:07.742 --> 0:07:09.822 what I do is I come in the office for 0:07:09.862 --> 0:07:12.742 those four or five weeks and I start watching players 0:07:12.782 --> 0:07:15.582 who will be in the following year's draft. So, for instance, 0:07:15.622 --> 0:07:17.462 a lot of the guys who are in this draft 0:07:17.462 --> 0:07:20.502 coming up in a month. UM, I watched a lot 0:07:20.542 --> 0:07:24.022 of their tape from their twenty twenty season last summer, 0:07:24.222 --> 0:07:26.262 so now when I watch their tape from this year, 0:07:26.542 --> 0:07:30.062 I have a foundation of what they are because most guys, 0:07:30.382 --> 0:07:33.982 you know, a high high percentage their physical and athletic 0:07:34.062 --> 0:07:39.062 trades don't dramatically change. Um. Obviously, can they become better 0:07:39.062 --> 0:07:43.062 in certain details and nuances and subtleties of a position 0:07:43.342 --> 0:07:46.862 as they get coached. Absolutely, but you're not gonna see 0:07:46.902 --> 0:07:50.502 a guy who's, you know, an average athlete in his 0:07:50.822 --> 0:07:54.702 junior tape become a high level, phenomenal athlete in his 0:07:54.822 --> 0:07:58.022 senior tape. That's not likely to happen. But I try 0:07:58.062 --> 0:08:01.142 to stay, you know, in the summer. I can't watch 0:08:01.422 --> 0:08:03.662 two fifty guys. I don't have that kind of time. 0:08:03.822 --> 0:08:06.422 But if I can get sixty two ninety guys looked 0:08:06.462 --> 0:08:09.422 at in the summer, then when I start after the 0:08:09.542 --> 0:08:12.622 NFL season, because obviously that's my total focus on the 0:08:12.702 --> 0:08:16.302 NFL matchup show, when I start um right after the 0:08:16.382 --> 0:08:18.902 NFL season looking at at the draft of ball players 0:08:19.062 --> 0:08:21.022 for that draft coming up in a couple of months, 0:08:21.182 --> 0:08:23.702 I have a pretty good foundation of a lot of 0:08:23.742 --> 0:08:26.262 the big names, and I'm not starting from scratch. That's 0:08:26.262 --> 0:08:29.782 the way teams do it too. I mean, teams are 0:08:29.862 --> 0:08:32.902 already putting a lot of information in the hopper for 0:08:32.942 --> 0:08:35.382 next year's draft while they're getting ready for this year's draft. 0:08:35.422 --> 0:08:38.142 Like the process never really stops the minute that the 0:08:38.182 --> 0:08:41.502 players are picked at the end of this April. Consider 0:08:41.662 --> 0:08:45.862 next year's draft process starting in every scouting COMBA or 0:08:45.862 --> 0:08:48.462 every you know, every scouting department, every pro personnel department 0:08:48.622 --> 0:08:51.542 in the NFL, they immediately just flip the switch, turn 0:08:51.622 --> 0:08:54.382 the calendar, and start getting ready for next year. And 0:08:54.382 --> 0:08:57.742 and I wonder during this process something that I mean, 0:08:57.742 --> 0:08:59.702 you say you have to watch full games, right, you 0:08:59.782 --> 0:09:03.342 really have to watch the entire game to get the 0:09:03.662 --> 0:09:06.942 true nature of how the game has played for every position. 0:09:07.462 --> 0:09:10.542 But are there some positions like how much times it 0:09:10.582 --> 0:09:14.942 takes you, for instance, to evaluate a wide receiver as 0:09:14.982 --> 0:09:17.382 opposed to how much time it might take you to 0:09:17.422 --> 0:09:21.182 evaluate a safety. Right, a wide receiver has a specific 0:09:21.302 --> 0:09:24.342 route that he is designed to run on every single 0:09:24.422 --> 0:09:27.302 play it is and you could probably see based on 0:09:27.342 --> 0:09:29.662 formation and rout tree and whatnot, whether he did it right, 0:09:29.702 --> 0:09:32.262 whether he did it wrong. Having said that, though, like 0:09:32.302 --> 0:09:35.542 safety is a read and react position, oftentimes I got 0:09:35.542 --> 0:09:37.622 the snap, change the picture and then look at what 0:09:37.662 --> 0:09:40.182 the offense is doing, and then what are my responsibilities? 0:09:40.222 --> 0:09:43.422 And you know it's probably takes I would think more 0:09:43.462 --> 0:09:48.182 time and more film and more reps and more, you know, 0:09:48.302 --> 0:09:50.542 just examples to take a look at a read and 0:09:50.582 --> 0:09:53.222 react defensive players. Then maybe an offensive player like a 0:09:53.222 --> 0:09:55.622 wide receiver that has a set responsibility on every play, 0:09:55.742 --> 0:09:57.582 You're that's a great point, and I'll give you an 0:09:57.582 --> 0:10:01.182 example wide receivers. What I tend to do because obviously 0:10:01.382 --> 0:10:04.382 I try to maximize my time. Why receivers, what I'll 0:10:04.382 --> 0:10:07.382 do is I'll watch all their targets, Okay, and then 0:10:07.422 --> 0:10:10.622 I'll watch a couple of games against really good opponents. 0:10:10.902 --> 0:10:13.222 But you can get a really good feel for receiver 0:10:13.342 --> 0:10:16.502 catches seventy five balls, Bob, he probably has a hundred 0:10:16.502 --> 0:10:19.422 and forty targets. You watch a hundred and forty targets, 0:10:19.622 --> 0:10:21.942 you get a really good feel for what that receiver 0:10:22.142 --> 0:10:24.422 is because you know what the reality. In the NFL, 0:10:24.742 --> 0:10:27.902 receivers are not drafted because of the way they stalk block. 0:10:28.342 --> 0:10:30.742 So yes, it's nice to see a guy who's physical 0:10:30.782 --> 0:10:33.262 and who cares about blocking, But the bottom line is, 0:10:33.262 --> 0:10:36.062 if he's a great receiver, it's not going to impact 0:10:36.142 --> 0:10:38.982 where he's drafted. And the other point you made, that's 0:10:38.982 --> 0:10:43.542 a hundred percent right. Defensive back, safeties and corners, you 0:10:43.662 --> 0:10:46.342 have to watch full games. If you look at a 0:10:46.422 --> 0:10:49.982 corner stats are particularly a good corner, you could see 0:10:49.982 --> 0:10:53.462 that he's got six past defense the whole season and 0:10:53.502 --> 0:10:57.502 maybe three interceptions. You can't just watch those plays. You 0:10:57.582 --> 0:11:01.022 have to see how he plays in particular coverage. Does 0:11:01.062 --> 0:11:03.822 he play press man, how does he play as man? 0:11:04.062 --> 0:11:07.182 Does he play press man physically jamming receivers. Does he 0:11:07.262 --> 0:11:09.782 play what we call mirror match press man where he 0:11:09.862 --> 0:11:12.342 lets the receiver declare his route and then tries to 0:11:12.382 --> 0:11:15.262 get into his hip pocket. How does he play off coverage? 0:11:15.462 --> 0:11:18.342 You know, there's so many factors. Safeties are the same, 0:11:18.702 --> 0:11:21.142 so you have to watch games to see that, and 0:11:21.142 --> 0:11:24.182 there's a lot of plays. If it's a post safety, 0:11:24.222 --> 0:11:26.102 there's a lot of plays where he might do nothing, 0:11:26.382 --> 0:11:29.862 but you have to see those two. So defensive backs 0:11:29.982 --> 0:11:32.902 really take a lot of time and it's just it's 0:11:32.902 --> 0:11:34.822 a grind, but you have to do it. Do you 0:11:34.822 --> 0:11:38.222 think dbs are the hardest position to analyze or or 0:11:38.222 --> 0:11:42.222 what would be as if not? Yes, I would say 0:11:42.262 --> 0:11:46.382 they're among the hardest positions to analyze. Sometimes receiver can 0:11:46.462 --> 0:11:48.942 be too because of what they're asked to do and 0:11:49.022 --> 0:11:51.542 what they're not asked to do relative to what they 0:11:51.582 --> 0:11:53.822 will be asked to do in the NFL. But I 0:11:53.862 --> 0:11:58.582 think corner and safety are really difficult positions to evaluate 0:11:58.622 --> 0:12:02.182 when you watch college tape. Also, keeping in mind that 0:12:02.222 --> 0:12:05.742 the hash marks change the total symmetry of the game, 0:12:06.022 --> 0:12:08.022 and you have to be aware of that as you 0:12:08.102 --> 0:12:11.302 try to project and transition corners and safeties to the 0:12:11.342 --> 0:12:13.782 next level. Yeah, I would have thought also offensive lineman 0:12:13.782 --> 0:12:16.502 because of how college football has changed. I remember talking 0:12:16.542 --> 0:12:18.062 to Bill Polian a few years ago. I think we 0:12:18.062 --> 0:12:20.702 talked about this in an earlier episode. Um, you know, 0:12:20.742 --> 0:12:22.942 he came to ESPN and we spent some time. He 0:12:23.022 --> 0:12:24.342 did some games out on the road, and had a 0:12:24.422 --> 0:12:26.502 chance to catch up with him on campus, and I 0:12:26.542 --> 0:12:30.702 remember just having one of those really cool philosophical football 0:12:30.782 --> 0:12:33.462 questions with a guy who's you know, I mean, if 0:12:33.462 --> 0:12:35.782 there was a MENSI meating for football, like Bill Polian 0:12:35.822 --> 0:12:37.022 would be at the head of the room leading the 0:12:37.062 --> 0:12:42.262 MENSI meeting and asking him the most difficult changes in 0:12:42.342 --> 0:12:44.822 the sport in terms of player analysis. And one thing 0:12:44.822 --> 0:12:48.742 he brought up was there is a crisis of offensive 0:12:48.742 --> 0:12:52.342 lineman from the college game to the National Football League 0:12:52.742 --> 0:12:56.262 based on a lot of the air raid offense. You know, 0:12:57.102 --> 0:13:01.182 sometimes yard yard and a half splits between offensive linemen 0:13:01.182 --> 0:13:04.222 where they are literally just lining up to pass block. 0:13:04.662 --> 0:13:07.022 Even in some of the more kind of quote unquote 0:13:07.062 --> 0:13:12.462 conservative college offenses that old school I'm gonna mash your 0:13:12.502 --> 0:13:17.102 face in drive blocking, run blocking offensive lineman attitude that 0:13:17.182 --> 0:13:19.982 we need to see in the NFL. It's just not 0:13:20.142 --> 0:13:24.182 that prevalent that much anymore in college football, and it's 0:13:24.222 --> 0:13:26.382 really hard to project. There are obviously some guys that 0:13:26.422 --> 0:13:29.182 can do it. It's their job to sift through the tape, 0:13:29.342 --> 0:13:32.582 find examples and identify a play and a player that 0:13:32.662 --> 0:13:34.702 can do it. But that has to be hard because 0:13:34.742 --> 0:13:36.742 college football has changed in a big way in the 0:13:36.742 --> 0:13:40.222 trenches as well, without question, and an offensive line is 0:13:40.222 --> 0:13:43.342 one of those positions. And we can talk further about this, 0:13:43.422 --> 0:13:45.662 but it is one of those positions that can be 0:13:45.782 --> 0:13:50.702 very difficult because many, many, many offensive lineman college football 0:13:50.982 --> 0:13:54.022 never even put their hand in the ground right, no doubt. 0:13:54.102 --> 0:13:56.262 And look, when we come back, I want to talk 0:13:56.302 --> 0:13:59.102 also about how the game has changed right in other 0:13:59.142 --> 0:14:03.422 ways and why some positions are probably harder to analyze 0:14:03.462 --> 0:14:05.662 us now than they used to be. And also we're 0:14:05.662 --> 0:14:07.142 gonna do what we do every week, and that is 0:14:07.182 --> 0:14:09.302 talk about some players. You know who they are, what 0:14:09.382 --> 0:14:11.702 they're good at, the guys that jumped out to you 0:14:11.942 --> 0:14:14.382 on tape this week that we haven't talked about yet 0:14:14.782 --> 0:14:17.702 at varying positions. So if you're a football nerd like us, 0:14:18.062 --> 0:14:19.782 you're at the bar with your buddy and you want 0:14:19.782 --> 0:14:21.222 to kind of wink at your buddy and say, hey, 0:14:21.302 --> 0:14:22.822 I got a guy for you. Watch if you see 0:14:22.862 --> 0:14:24.382 this guy go in the fourth round. Our team got 0:14:24.422 --> 0:14:26.982 a gem. There are some guys that Greg will be 0:14:27.062 --> 0:14:30.302 able to give you an insight about that whose names 0:14:30.302 --> 0:14:33.502 you might not have heard of in the process to 0:14:33.622 --> 0:14:35.742 this point, we're gonna talk about where they fit in 0:14:35.782 --> 0:14:37.542 the NFL as well. All of that is coming up 0:14:37.582 --> 0:14:44.102 next on Tape Heeds Draft Season. Welcome back to Taped's 0:14:44.142 --> 0:14:46.582 Draft Season, Baba shoose up Gregg co Sell our latest 0:14:46.622 --> 0:14:50.102 episode not only talking about where Greg is at in 0:14:50.222 --> 0:14:52.782 his draft process, where we think teams are at this 0:14:52.862 --> 0:14:56.222 point in their draft prep process, but also Greg, we 0:14:56.222 --> 0:14:58.342 were just talking a little bit about how the game 0:14:58.342 --> 0:15:02.782 has changed and how back when we were growing up, 0:15:03.222 --> 0:15:06.902 the running back, the big powerful running back, was as 0:15:07.022 --> 0:15:10.622 much a part of your team's success or failure as 0:15:10.662 --> 0:15:14.222 maybe any position. Right in the eighties, you can make 0:15:14.222 --> 0:15:17.942 an argument that of the top ten or twenty stars 0:15:17.982 --> 0:15:20.462 in the NFL, half of them were the running backs, 0:15:20.502 --> 0:15:24.582 and running backs that carried the ball times a game, 0:15:24.622 --> 0:15:26.542 and that was the game plan. That's not the way 0:15:26.782 --> 0:15:29.582 the NFL has played anymore, nor can it be. I mean, 0:15:29.822 --> 0:15:33.342 the football that has played in college has certainly leaked 0:15:33.342 --> 0:15:36.542 into the NFL. The process has evolved, and now it 0:15:36.582 --> 0:15:39.902 seems like the NFL is much more about creating the 0:15:40.022 --> 0:15:43.622 chunk and explosive plays through the passing game than three 0:15:43.662 --> 0:15:45.782 yards and a cloud of dust. How much has that 0:15:45.902 --> 0:15:50.542 changed the draft process for teams tremendously? And the bottom 0:15:50.582 --> 0:15:52.702 line is, I mean, I was at the combine, you know, 0:15:52.782 --> 0:15:55.182 for five days a number of weeks ago, and all 0:15:55.302 --> 0:15:59.742 you hear on both sides offense create explosive plays. Defense 0:15:59.822 --> 0:16:03.862 we cannot allow explosive plays, and the percentage wise, as 0:16:03.902 --> 0:16:06.542 we all know, explosive plays come out of the past 0:16:06.622 --> 0:16:09.342 game far more than the run game. So the goal 0:16:09.382 --> 0:16:12.502 is to create those explosive plays. Now, every team will 0:16:12.542 --> 0:16:14.462 tell you that there are times you do need to 0:16:14.542 --> 0:16:16.822 run the ball, and certainly there are teams like the 0:16:16.862 --> 0:16:20.702 San Francisco forty Niners, uh, the Tennessee Titans. They start 0:16:20.742 --> 0:16:23.302 their offense with the run game. But if you cannot 0:16:23.462 --> 0:16:27.502 create explosive plays throwing the football, and there are multiple 0:16:27.542 --> 0:16:30.862 ways to do that, Bob. Obviously, Kyle Shanahan might do 0:16:30.902 --> 0:16:33.462 it differently than a team that lines up with the 0:16:33.542 --> 0:16:36.262 quarterback and the shotgun or an empty sets and tries 0:16:36.302 --> 0:16:38.542 to create them that way. But the bottom line is, 0:16:38.582 --> 0:16:41.782 if you can't create explosive plays in the past game, 0:16:42.262 --> 0:16:45.342 somewhere along the line, you're going to struggle. And just 0:16:45.462 --> 0:16:48.422 one other point, I think that you never know how 0:16:48.422 --> 0:16:50.862 any given game is going to play out in the NFL, 0:16:51.382 --> 0:16:54.542 so your passing game has to be able to operate 0:16:54.902 --> 0:16:58.342 independently of your run game. It can be dependent on 0:16:58.422 --> 0:17:01.022 your ability to run the ball. And then to get 0:17:01.062 --> 0:17:03.342 to your point about how the college game has changed 0:17:03.622 --> 0:17:09.142 how the NFL goes about it. Probably over of Division 0:17:09.222 --> 0:17:13.942 one college football teams play in a spread formation, So 0:17:14.022 --> 0:17:17.782 now you're getting players who grew up playing that way 0:17:17.822 --> 0:17:21.382 from the time they started playing football. That's what they know. 0:17:21.862 --> 0:17:25.262 So when you draft a guy, uh, it starts with quarterback, 0:17:25.302 --> 0:17:27.662 of course, but it's true with many other positions on 0:17:27.702 --> 0:17:30.022 both sides of the ball. You have to try to 0:17:30.102 --> 0:17:33.342 play to what they know and what they are because 0:17:33.342 --> 0:17:35.302 if you draft a guy high and expect him to 0:17:35.302 --> 0:17:38.182 play right away, you can't teach him a brand new 0:17:38.302 --> 0:17:41.582 language in three months, so you have to teach him 0:17:41.582 --> 0:17:45.382 the language he knows and refine that. So therefore, the 0:17:45.502 --> 0:17:48.702 NFL game has taken more and more from the college game, 0:17:48.982 --> 0:17:51.902 even though the hash marks still make the game somewhat 0:17:51.982 --> 0:17:55.022 different in a meaningful way. The fact is you need 0:17:55.062 --> 0:17:58.622 these players to play right away and to limit the 0:17:58.662 --> 0:18:03.862 explosive plays defensively. There it probably has changed how different 0:18:03.902 --> 0:18:08.582 positions are valued right like pass, rusher, cover, corner. Those 0:18:08.622 --> 0:18:12.902 have always been big time important positions to draft high. 0:18:12.982 --> 0:18:15.302 But one guy, as we promised we would to get 0:18:15.342 --> 0:18:17.222 to some of your or maybe under the radar guys, 0:18:17.262 --> 0:18:19.782 guys we haven't talked about yet, Guys that aren't the 0:18:19.862 --> 0:18:22.422 stars being talked about at the top of the first round. 0:18:22.982 --> 0:18:24.982 But if you're in the bar with your buddies and 0:18:25.022 --> 0:18:27.342 you want to give them a diamond and the rough 0:18:27.422 --> 0:18:29.582 to keep your eyes on and look like a genius, 0:18:29.582 --> 0:18:32.022 when this guy gets picked, we've got a few to 0:18:32.062 --> 0:18:36.342 talk about. And safety is a position that takes on 0:18:36.382 --> 0:18:38.742 an added level of importance. That's why we're talking about 0:18:38.782 --> 0:18:42.182 Kyle Hamilton's maybe being a unicorn, but being drafted potentially 0:18:42.262 --> 0:18:46.102 higher than any safety has ever been drafted in NFL history. 0:18:46.542 --> 0:18:48.382 I know a guy from Michigan that caught your eye 0:18:48.502 --> 0:18:50.982 is Dax Hill. Yes, and I don't know if you 0:18:51.102 --> 0:18:53.942 did a Michigan game, but this kid, this kid is 0:18:53.942 --> 0:18:57.062 is really to me. Um. I mean, Hamilton's is is 0:18:57.062 --> 0:19:00.542 probably special because of that size, the length, the movement, 0:19:00.982 --> 0:19:02.982 and who knows, he could be a top three pick. 0:19:03.462 --> 0:19:05.342 But Daxton Hill, I thought it was one of the 0:19:05.382 --> 0:19:09.902 most intriguing players that I watched. He played field safety, 0:19:09.942 --> 0:19:12.022 meaning he played safety to the wide side of the 0:19:12.062 --> 0:19:15.702 field in Michigan's base defense, and then he played slot 0:19:15.862 --> 0:19:19.902 corner in their sub defenses. Okay, so he's six ft, 0:19:19.902 --> 0:19:23.222 he's a hundred pounds, he ran under four or four 0:19:24.022 --> 0:19:29.102 UM and he's long, he's rangy, he's twitchy, he's explosive. 0:19:29.382 --> 0:19:32.102 It would be very interesting to me to see whoever 0:19:32.182 --> 0:19:34.502 drafts him, and it would not surprise me. And you know, 0:19:34.662 --> 0:19:37.102 I'm I'm I'm big mock guy, as you know, Bob, 0:19:37.182 --> 0:19:39.102 But it would not surprise me if he goes in 0:19:39.142 --> 0:19:43.462 the first round, even if it's let's say, after pick twenty, 0:19:43.622 --> 0:19:46.462 just because he can play two positions and he's an 0:19:46.462 --> 0:19:51.342 explosive athlete. And you talk about safety being increasingly important 0:19:51.382 --> 0:19:54.222 today's NFL because he can match up to tight ends, 0:19:54.342 --> 0:19:57.182 no question as a safety, because he matches up to 0:19:57.302 --> 0:20:01.262 slot wide receivers, so he has that experience. So to me, 0:20:01.382 --> 0:20:06.902 someone like Daxton Hill absolutely fits the profile of today's 0:20:07.022 --> 0:20:10.182 NFL because he's a two position player and he can 0:20:10.222 --> 0:20:14.422 play man to man against slot wide receivers and against 0:20:14.502 --> 0:20:17.622 tight ends. So he's a player I would really look 0:20:17.662 --> 0:20:20.622 carefully at, and I'm sure teams are. And of course 0:20:20.702 --> 0:20:24.302 his testing was off the charts. Yep. The Georgia defense, 0:20:24.582 --> 0:20:29.862 of course, was historically good and there will be plenty 0:20:29.862 --> 0:20:33.302 of Georgia defensive players taken in this draft. You mentioned 0:20:33.342 --> 0:20:36.462 Jordan Davis basically breaking the combine and breaking the Internet 0:20:36.462 --> 0:20:39.182 when you know he basically ran what was the equivalent 0:20:39.222 --> 0:20:40.782 for a player of his size of like a three 0:20:40.862 --> 0:20:44.102 eight in the forty right, and it was just ridiculous. Uh, 0:20:44.142 --> 0:20:46.622 the athleticism that he showed for his size. But no 0:20:46.902 --> 0:20:50.942 defense puts up those kind of numbers without some more 0:20:51.022 --> 0:20:54.622 under the radar guys that blend in and play their 0:20:54.662 --> 0:20:57.862 game and take care of their job and show that 0:20:57.902 --> 0:21:00.062 they can be an NFL player. But maybe not the 0:21:00.182 --> 0:21:05.262 star NFL player and Quay Walker linebacker where where is 0:21:05.342 --> 0:21:08.022 human He's more of a maybe a complimentary player than 0:21:08.062 --> 0:21:10.822