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Speaker 1: Is the best of two pros and a couple Joe

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Speaker 1: with Lamar Airings and grating Win and Jonas Knox on

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Speaker 1: four Radio.

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Speaker 2: Oh what is going on? Happy Thursday to you, man,

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 3: J Mark.

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Speaker 2: Great to be with you. We are inching our way

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Speaker 2: towards ball.

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Speaker 4: We are just a little over a week away until

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Speaker 4: we get college football.

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Speaker 2: That week zero sucks. It's a horrible slate of games.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna try.

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Speaker 4: And tell you it's awesome, but it's ball nevertheless, and

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Speaker 4: then the week after Week one in college football we

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Speaker 4: got some great matchups and the NFL not too long

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Speaker 4: after that. Man, can you feel it? Can you feel

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Speaker 4: it in the air? Ball is right around the corner?

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Speaker 3: J Martin? Oh yeah, I mean the only thing that

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Speaker 3: I can't feel yet is the temperature that I want

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Speaker 3: to accompany the ball that is around the corner. Because

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Speaker 3: of Nashville. It's just been an insanely, insanely hot just

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Speaker 3: in crazy hot summer. We're like plus ninety five for

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Speaker 3: the next seven days with one oh five plus heat indexes.

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Speaker 3: So it doesn't feel like ball. Well, I mean, it

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Speaker 3: feels like two days and in high school and all

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Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. But it doesn't feel like ball weather.

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Speaker 3: But we're getting there. We are getting there until I

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Speaker 3: think that's gonna be. The bonus is it's going to

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Speaker 3: be temperate again and I can walk outside without feeling

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Speaker 3: like a heat stroke.

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Speaker 4: Is thereby there you go, Okay, nice and yeah, if

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Speaker 4: you're into the cooler temperatures, ball signifies cooler temperatures, you know,

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Speaker 4: So if that's your thing right there, it won't be

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Speaker 4: insufferable with the summer temperatures. But this is the one

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Speaker 4: thing that caught my attention the most and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to dive in it with you. Brown's quarterback Shoulder Sanders,

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Speaker 4: speaking of ball, played well in his preseason debut last week. Well,

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Speaker 4: he suffered an oblique strain here Shane mart that was

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Speaker 4: in practice on Wednesday, and so he's unlikely to play

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Speaker 4: on Saturday. That was the next preseason game at the Eagles,

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Speaker 4: So it looks like he's not gonna be out on

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Speaker 4: the field.

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Speaker 2: So the first question is where does this leave Shauduur.

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Speaker 4: On the depth chart as we inch closer to the

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Speaker 4: regular season. How do you think it's going to shake

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Speaker 4: out for the Browns leading up to Week one? If

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Speaker 4: you look at your you know, you look at the

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Speaker 4: crystal ball. What do you think in order one, two, three, four,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, question mark there, what do you think

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Speaker 4: it looks like come week one for the browns QB

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Speaker 4: depth chart.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's We knew this was going to

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Speaker 3: be a bit convoluted. This was going to be the

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Speaker 3: television series where you had to watch every episode and

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Speaker 3: then read seven or eight different think pieces in order

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Speaker 3: to understand what was going on here. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 3: Shaudor helped himself out a lot by what he did

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Speaker 3: in the first preseason game. It wasn't like the most

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Speaker 3: magical performance ever, but it showcased the kind of stuff

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Speaker 3: that you saw him do in college and the kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff that you would hope he was going to

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Speaker 3: be able to duplicate any NFL. I just look at

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Speaker 3: the I've looked at that scenario the whole time and

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Speaker 3: just kind of thought, I'm not sure why we aren't

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Speaker 3: looking at Shador as early as week one. Honestly, I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's probably likely to be somebody that's more

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Speaker 3: veteran than that. But if you're trying to get me

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Speaker 3: to stack the entire thing, man that's a difficult task

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Speaker 3: to do. If it's me doing it, I might just

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Speaker 3: throw Shador out there, quite frankly. But if I'm really

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out how it's going to shake out.

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Speaker 3: I know that originally Dylan Gabriel was being looked at

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Speaker 3: as being higher. I doubt that's going to be the

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Speaker 3: case by the time we get there, unless there's going

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Speaker 3: to be more incidents that we don't know exactly, And

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Speaker 3: then of course you have it's that little oblique injury.

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Speaker 3: It's nothing major from Shador, so that could obviously throw

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Speaker 3: some things into a wrench. So I'm not sure exactly

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Speaker 3: what we're looking at in terms of what I think

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Speaker 3: is going to happen. I think it's easier for me

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Speaker 3: to say, as long as he's healthy, I might like

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Speaker 3: to throw Shador out there and see what he can

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Speaker 3: do week one, because I just don't think this is

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Speaker 3: a year where Cleveland's going to be a factor. I

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Speaker 3: think it's more likely that this should be an experimental

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Speaker 3: year where you try to see what you can get

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Speaker 3: and see what you have on that roster as early

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Speaker 3: as possible, as opposed to going in thinking that you're

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Speaker 3: competing for a playoff spot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, well, it's two separate things, and I

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Speaker 4: like how you thought of it, what you would do

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Speaker 4: and what the Browns might do. It's much easier to

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Speaker 4: figure out what you would do. What the Browns are

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Speaker 4: gonna do. Who knows, man, they're a wild card. They're

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Speaker 4: a walking, walking wild card over there. I think it'll

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Speaker 4: resemble close to what it is right now. Flacco is

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Speaker 4: going to be the Week one starter they host the Bengals.

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Speaker 4: He's got a lot more experience that I don't think

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Speaker 4: they hit the ground running week one with Shaduur. I mean,

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Speaker 4: he's not even getting first team reps. You know, he's

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Speaker 4: not getting many reps in practice period, you know, so

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Speaker 4: I doubt they would throw them to the Wolves in

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Speaker 4: week one. I get your reasoning. I just don't think

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Speaker 4: that's what they would do. So I would say I'd

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Speaker 4: go Flacco. It's probably gonna be almost exactly what it

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Speaker 4: is right now. It's probably gonna be Flacco pick it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if.

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Speaker 4: Gabriel is gonna get on the field this weekend, you know,

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Speaker 4: if he's healthy enough to do so. Because if he

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Speaker 4: gets on the field against the Eagles and he plays well,

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Speaker 4: he's probably gonna stay ahead of Shador, so it might

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Speaker 4: go Gabriel and then Shaduur. Or maybe they mix it

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Speaker 4: up and say we're not gonna keep four quarterbacks, let's

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Speaker 4: deal Kenny Pickett. Maybe they would do something like that,

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Speaker 4: But I don't think they would let one of the

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Speaker 4: rookies go just yet.

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Speaker 2: I don't see that happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that when

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Speaker 3: I look at it, Flacco is obviously just kind of

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Speaker 3: there to bridge, but it's not even a long term bridge.

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Speaker 3: I don't even think it's a half season bridge. I

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Speaker 3: agree with you. I think that's probably the most likely scenario,

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Speaker 3: especially against a division a division rival and a division opponent,

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Speaker 3: put somebody in there that's that's obviously seen his share

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Speaker 3: even in that division, to go even further into it.

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Speaker 3: I do look at it. It's a tough spot, honestly

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Speaker 3: for the rookies to be in, just because you have

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Speaker 3: a another one there. That scenario doesn't happen too often.

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Speaker 3: And then on top of that, there's two other guys

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Speaker 3: above that have at least starting experience in the league.

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Speaker 3: I'm not pretty I'm not big at all on picket

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Speaker 3: at this stage, but it would make sense at least

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Speaker 3: for right now for him to be where he is

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Speaker 3: on the depth chart. I just continue to look at

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Speaker 3: Shador and I'm like, man, why are you not in

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Speaker 3: New Orleans? Man? Because I haven't heard and seen very

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Speaker 3: much good about Tyler Shuck coming out of New Orleans.

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Speaker 3: It's just like there seemed to be other places where

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Speaker 3: he could have gone and not had seventeen quarterbacks that

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Speaker 3: he was competing with. It just seems like it seems

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Speaker 3: like the Browns created a problem needlessly, and I'm waiting

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Speaker 3: for them to sign another quarterback in the next couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks based on their act.

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Speaker 4: Right Well, yeah, that's the thing, man is there are

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Speaker 4: a few teams and we'll see where it goes. It

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Speaker 4: was a good preseason debut for Shador. I know you

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Speaker 4: and I aren't going crazy like he's going to be

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Speaker 4: the next big star based on this.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he can blow it out of proportion.

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Speaker 4: The guy has talent, and there are to your point,

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Speaker 4: there are some teams that bypass Shador and they don't

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Speaker 4: have a quarterback of the now or the future on

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Speaker 4: the roster. The Jets don't have one the Steelers at

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Speaker 4: least have a quarterback for this year, not the future.

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Speaker 4: Look at what's happening with the Colts, the Radas they

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Speaker 4: get a bridge quarterback in Geno. There are a lot

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Speaker 4: of teams that passed on Shador, and not just the

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Speaker 4: first round, like second, third, fourth, that could have been

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Speaker 4: in a better position with Shadur and they elected not to.

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Speaker 4: This is the other thing I was thinking about, Jason Martin,

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Speaker 4: Brian Know with you here in for two Pros and

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Speaker 4: a Cup of Joe on Fox Sports Radio, do you

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Speaker 4: think it makes sense that Shador Sanders is the biggest

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Speaker 4: story in the NFL right now, because for sure he is.

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Speaker 4: There's not another guy that is getting talked about as

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Speaker 4: much in terms of on the field. Maybe we're talking

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Speaker 4: about Michaeh Parsons contract, but in terms of driving opinions

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Speaker 4: and driving content all over the place, he's the guy.

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Speaker 4: And I think you could look at it one of

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Speaker 4: two ways, j Martin, and both sides make some sense.

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Speaker 4: You could look at it and say, no, it doesn't

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Speaker 4: make any sense at all.

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Speaker 2: He's listed as.

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Speaker 4: A fourth string quarterback right now. He's not gonna be

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Speaker 4: the starter. Best case, he's the backups. Backup, or you

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Speaker 4: could say, yeah, it makes total sense. He's basically Bronnie

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Speaker 4: James with talent, right, He's got a famous dad. There

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Speaker 4: are a lot of people that dislike his flash for

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Speaker 4: whatever reason. Everybody has an opinion, So yeah, it makes

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Speaker 4: sense that he's the biggest story in the NFL right now,

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Speaker 4: which way do you look at it, Probably the latter.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think that once you saw how that

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Speaker 3: pre draft process kind of kicked into gear, you saw

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Speaker 3: a cow that could be milked, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: kind of what it's been, and there hasn't been. You

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Speaker 3: can correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a

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Speaker 3: whole lot else just right now that's particularly interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's gonna be storyline after storyline obviously once we get

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Speaker 3: to the season. But to your point, outside of the

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Speaker 3: Michael Parsons contract thing, which is just Jerry Jones finding

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Speaker 3: a way to stay relevant in the offseason and have

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Speaker 3: people talking about him, I mean, it's not like a

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Speaker 3: bunch of guys have been saying stuff about one another.

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Speaker 3: There's not a lot of disputes out there. It's just

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Speaker 3: the usual, right, It's the preseason predictions for the season,

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Speaker 3: Like we're starting to see that, and of course the

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Speaker 3: fantasy stuff is starting to ramp up a little bit

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Speaker 3: now and we're just trying to dodge injuries in the preseason.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, I'm trying to think of something else

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Speaker 3: that there's really meat on the bone, and mine has

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Speaker 3: always been the same, It's in the same division. It's

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Speaker 3: just that I think Pittsburgh's going to have a bad

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Speaker 3: year this year, and that's got the Aaron Rodgers effect.

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Speaker 3: But you can only talk about that so much, and

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Speaker 3: I think that people kind of exhausted all the talking

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Speaker 3: points for now, except I guess now he's talking about

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Speaker 3: the helmet, so I guess you could potentially discuss him

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Speaker 3: saying that the helmet looks like some kind of astronaut

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Speaker 3: thing or something. But in terms of just something that

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Speaker 3: creates it seems to create its own content. It is

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Speaker 3: shador and people can then comment on what's been commented on,

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Speaker 3: and I think that once you saw how that played

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Speaker 3: out in the lead up to the NFL Draft, they're

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Speaker 3: just continuing along that along that pathway. He is interesting,

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Speaker 3: he's compelling. There's a lot of different facets of what's

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Speaker 3: going on. And then the Browns being the Browns with

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Speaker 3: you one hundred having a roster full of quarterbacks and

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Speaker 3: then a few other players. That makes it all the

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Speaker 3: more interesting. So I'm not really surprised by it, and

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Speaker 3: I'm okay with it because there is a lot to

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Speaker 3: discuss there. If there is anything to debate, it's this

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Speaker 3: guy that was being talked about one way a year ago, Brian,

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Speaker 3: and now is being talked about in completely different light. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, when you break it down like that, it does

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Speaker 4: make a lot of sense because it's much deeper than

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Speaker 4: this guy's a fifth round pick who's fourth string right now,

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Speaker 4: maybe third string by time Week one rolls around.

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Speaker 2: It's way deeper than that. That's just surface level.

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Speaker 4: And when you have a guy like Shadur Sanders that

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Speaker 4: just drives opinions far and wide, it's the perfect storm

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Speaker 4: to have a conversation like what other player is driving

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Speaker 4: conversation like that? Maybe Caleb Williams with the Bears. A

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Speaker 4: lot of people have.

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Speaker 3: That's the other one.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, But outside of that, what we got,

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Speaker 4: we got Matthew Stafford's back injury. That's not driving conversation, right,

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Speaker 4: So when you think about it like that, it does

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Speaker 4: make sense that we spend as much time talking about

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Speaker 4: Shadeur as we do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that the unknown creates a

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Speaker 3: lot of possibilities, and there's a lot unknown, and then

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Speaker 3: there are opinions on both sides of that divide predicting

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Speaker 3: what the unknown is going to be. And I do

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Speaker 3: think Caleb is the other one. And I imagine we're

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Speaker 3: going to talk about Caleb before the end of the show.

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Speaker 3: So I think right now, you're just kind of in

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Speaker 3: that sort of holding pattern before this. And yeah, there'll

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Speaker 3: be a few things that crop up and some things

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Speaker 3: in the preseason that will create some talking points, but

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Speaker 3: there was already a built in storyline and a built

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Speaker 3: in discussion point surrounding Shador Sanders before we ever even

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Speaker 3: got here. I mean, we were talking about that before

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Speaker 3: he was drafted, then that of course when he was

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Speaker 3: drafted in the afternoon on that Saturday, and then we're

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Speaker 3: still talking about it now because you don't have to

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Speaker 3: see this guy play football to have an opinion on

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Speaker 3: how this guy is going to behave once he does

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Speaker 3: start playing football.

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Speaker 4: You know, when you think about it, a lot of

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Speaker 4: similarities with Caleb Williams. Yes, right, like he was talked

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Speaker 4: about like crazy in college and that just transferred right

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Speaker 4: to the NFL. Imagine if Caleb Williams, on top of

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Speaker 4: driving all that college conversation, had a famous father who

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Speaker 4: was like this NFL Hall of Famer coaching him at USC,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And then boat press though,

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Speaker 4: you got something huge right there, but it still was

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Speaker 4: very big with Caleb without the fame his father. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's not like he was a defensive back or we

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Speaker 4: just know that his dad is very opinionated and.

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Speaker 2: All that type of stuff.

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Speaker 4: But kind of similar if you think about Caleb and

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Speaker 4: Shaduur some similarities, not all, but some things are common.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and

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Speaker 1: a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and

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Speaker 1: Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: Hi. This is Jay.

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Speaker 5: I'm the producer of the Paula and Tony Fusco Show.

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Speaker 5: Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to

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Speaker 5: the show. I'm here to ask you please don't listen

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Speaker 5: to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who

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Speaker 5: have the dumbest takes on Sports Magical. Don't listen to

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Speaker 5: the show so it can get camps.

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Speaker 3: The get Him Fool.

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Speaker 4: Listen to the Tony Fusco Show on the iHeart Radio

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Speaker 4: app or wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 3: He's still moving. We're gonna do quite a lot here

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Speaker 3: to open up our number two, some names you might recognize,

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Speaker 3: and a talking point about what that actually means. We

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Speaker 3: get to it in just a minute. It is indeed,

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Speaker 3: two pros and a cup of Joe. They're out today.

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Speaker 3: Brian Knows with me. I'm Jason Martin hour number two

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Speaker 3: of the program. Glad to have you with us. All right,

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Speaker 3: be a lot of football on this show, because well

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Speaker 3: football is coming, which means we have something to talk about.

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Speaker 3: We have a lot to talk about. As a matter

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Speaker 3: of fact, I don't know how your summer has gone.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how what sports have had your attention?

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Speaker 3: Have been watching baseball? What have you been watching this summer?

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Speaker 3: Anything new compel you? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I watch a little baseball.

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Speaker 4: I watch WNBA all the freaking time, jmart all the time.

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Speaker 3: I love to man, I watch it. Get enough.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know you're into it too.

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Speaker 3: That's great. Dvring it left, right, and center.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I was watching last night, but I was

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Speaker 4: watching let me think a bunch of games. I was

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Speaker 4: watching the Sky and the Sun. I was watching the Storm.

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Speaker 4: I thought the Storm it was the right side. I

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Speaker 4: hit up Jeff Schwartz, you know, we do a show

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Speaker 4: on Sundays, and I was like, it's a little risky.

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Speaker 4: You know, Storm have lost five in a row. The

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Speaker 4: uh the dream of won five in a row. But

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Speaker 4: I laid out my reasoning and it was dead wrong.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I've liked it a lot.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: We saw the the Aces beat the Liberty a pretty

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Speaker 4: good game one by six. I'm all over it, man,

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Speaker 4: I'm watching games left and right.

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Speaker 3: Wait a second, I gotta I gotta ask, now, are

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Speaker 3: we being sarcastic here?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Were we talking legit here?

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Speaker 2: I watch it all the time, all the time.

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Speaker 3: I'm okay, all right, I was being sarcastic about it.

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Speaker 3: Just said I've put that out and put that I

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Speaker 3: love that.

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Speaker 5: You.

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Speaker 4: It got to a point where you're like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 4: he I think he's serious right now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Like I was like, wait, he's selling this awfully

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Speaker 3: effectively right now?

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Speaker 2: No, I do I watch I've.

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Speaker 4: Got the oh man, the League pass on YouTube is

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Speaker 4: the worst freaking thing I've ever bought in my life.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, bought WNBA League pass

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Speaker 2: I have.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's only like thirteen bucks a month or something

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Speaker 4: like that. But if I'm on my phone or my tablet,

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Speaker 4: almost every time they go to commercial. Think how many

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Speaker 4: times a basketball game goes to commercial it crashes. It'll

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Speaker 4: just crash, and then I try to put it back

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Speaker 4: on and it'll crash and you got to exit.

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Speaker 2: It's a nightmare, dude. It's terrible.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why. I don't know why. It's that

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Speaker 4: it's YouTube, right, Like everything I've had on YouTube is good.

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Speaker 4: Not the WNBA package. It is awful. Man, it's bad.

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Speaker 4: It crashes constantly.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I still am like trying to make sure you're

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Speaker 3: not being sarcastic, but you've now sold it to a

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Speaker 3: point where I think it's legit.

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Speaker 2: No, it is absolutely I watch games all the time.

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Speaker 3: Wow, did you expect that coming into this year?

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Speaker 2: No, it really it's because of Caitlin I.

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Speaker 4: That's when I started watching the WNBA and then you know,

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Speaker 4: I for count down, like we'll make picks, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'll bet on the WNBA. So I've just paid attention

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Speaker 4: this whole time basically because like the last year and

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Speaker 4: a half. Other than that, I've probably watched five minutes

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Speaker 4: of the WNBA before the last year and a half,

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Speaker 4: but now I watch it all the time.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Well, I mean good, I mean I guess good.

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Speaker 3: It's given you something to care about. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Other than you know, I'll watch baseball here and there,

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Speaker 4: but I'm really counting down toward football.

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Speaker 2: Make no mistake, you know. Once ball is here. Different story.

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Speaker 3: This has been the summer or the year of f

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Speaker 3: one for me. Oh really, okay, I've gotten into that

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Speaker 3: one big time. I just like made a decision at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the year. I was like, I'm just

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Speaker 3: gonna try to get into this. It's something different because

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Speaker 3: you don't talk about it on You don't talk about

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Speaker 3: it as part of your job like a lot of

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Speaker 3: this stuff. Everything you see is can I get eight

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Speaker 3: thirteen really solid minutes out of X, Y and ze? Right?

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Speaker 3: Not to escape It is for a lot of other people, though, Man,

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Speaker 3: you get to watch sports all the times, like right,

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Speaker 3: But there's it's not quite the same for us as

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Speaker 3: it is for others. But with F one, I know

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Speaker 3: I'm not really gonna be talking about it, so I've

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Speaker 3: kind of been able to approach it just like a fan,

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Speaker 3: like I'm learning the sport, I'm learning the drivers, I'm

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Speaker 3: learning the history. I've gotten deep into it, like it's

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Speaker 3: become kind of my thing, and it's carried me through summer,

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Speaker 3: even though they're in a midsummer break. But I've absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved it. It's gotten me and it's gonna be going

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Speaker 3: on during football. But I've already bought you know, F

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Speaker 3: one TV premium for the year and everything else. So

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Speaker 3: it's just you know, interesting, you're watching WNBA, I'm watching

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Speaker 3: F one.

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Speaker 2: That's cool, man.

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Speaker 4: And you know you don't turn the sports radio host

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Speaker 4: brain off completely.

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Speaker 2: I know you're the same. That's just how you're wired.

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Speaker 4: So I guarantee you're watching F one and you're putting

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Speaker 4: together these opinions and these thoughts as if whatever that's

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Speaker 4: gonna lead the second hour of your upcoming show, and

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Speaker 4: then it dawns on you like, wait.

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Speaker 2: A minute, I'm not gonna talk about.

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Speaker 4: It at all, and then you can just sit there

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Speaker 4: and watch it and enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: I've got another friend who has worked for me in

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Speaker 3: sports talk since day one, and guess what, he's also

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Speaker 3: a hu Jeff one foot, and so we talk about

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Speaker 3: it together just amongst each other. It's like, we're never

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Speaker 3: gonna do anything with this. We could just be a

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Speaker 3: fan of something again. It's kind of cool. It's still

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Speaker 3: a sports, it's still sports, but we know it's not

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Speaker 3: gonna be that thing. Speaking of leading the second hour,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna give you a list of guys real quick,

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Speaker 3: and I'm gonna see I bet you can figure this

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Speaker 3: out because you're a pretty bright guy, Brian, as to

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Speaker 3: why I'm or what these guys have in common with

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Speaker 3: one another? Okay, Jameis Winston, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, Yep,

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Speaker 3: Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence, Bryce Young, Caleb Williams, and Cam Ward.

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Speaker 2: They're all number one overall.

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Speaker 3: Picks YEP since twenty fifteen outside of Burrow, and then

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Speaker 3: I guess I would say probably Jared Goff. How many

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Speaker 3: of those have like become true number one pick material.

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Speaker 3: You might look at Baker and feel okay about it,

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Speaker 3: But the reason I'm talking about is because of Kleb.

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Speaker 3: Because Kyle Brandt of the NFL Network. I guess that's

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Speaker 3: now he is me. I don't know at this point

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Speaker 3: in time. Maybe we'll talk about that for the end

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Speaker 3: of the hour, because I definitely have takes.

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Speaker 2: But he's on NFL Network Red Zone I think, is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whatever, just don't touch red zone, police, please don't

429
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Speaker 3: ruin it. He said that year two for a quarterback

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Speaker 3: is now the new year five, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of truth to that, right like the by the time

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Speaker 3: you get to year two, the expectations are year five

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Speaker 3: or it's like cutbait with this guy and let's go

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Speaker 3: get somebody else. And we've seen that. But you look

435
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 3: at you know, Bryce Young going into year three and

436
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 3: Trevor Lawrence is what he is at this point in time,

437
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 3: and is it going to get better than what it is?

438
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. Is Liam Cohen gonna unlock Trevor Lawrence

439
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 3: the way that people thought he was coming out of Clemson.

440
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 3: I don't know. But you look at some of these

441
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 3: other guys, either journeymen, or they've had to have kind

442
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: of a second life, or they've had contracts about playing

443
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 3: call of duty or all of these other things. Doesn't

444
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 3: seem like much of this number one pick stuff has

445
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 3: worked out for a lot of these guys. Not that

446
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: that has always I mean, that's kind of always been

447
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 3: the case historically, it's been a bit of a crap shoot.

448
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 3: But I just I am fascinated by Caleb Williams and

449
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: how people seem to be incredibly negative on him before

450
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: the start of year two, And I just look at

451
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: him and Trevor Lawrence and say, we might be looking

452
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: at the same career here between these two guys, considering

453
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: how bad year one was from a coaching standpoint for

454
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 3: Trevor when he came into the league, and what I

455
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 3: think was an all time blunder by the Chicago Bears

456
00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 3: a season ago to let Caleb flounder under a defensive mind,

457
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: head coach that didn't have what it took to stay

458
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: in that job.

459
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what's interesting is if you go back

460
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: to the year two is the new year five?

461
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 4: It depends on what you're specifically talking about, at least

462
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 4: in my mind, because that could be absolutely the truth

463
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 4: for expectations.

464
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 2: You know, certainly for Caleb Williams.

465
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 4: You look at what they've surrounded him with, You've got

466
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,360
Speaker 4: a better interior offensive line. They bring in three new dudes.

467
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 4: You have a brand new head coach, offensive minded head coach,

468
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 4: and Caleb Williams has weapons all around to throw to.

469
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 4: If you look at a supporting cast, there are no excuses,

470
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: it's freaking go time right now. So yeah, Like, in

471
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 4: terms of expectations, I buy that when he's surrounded by

472
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: top ten picks. Romadoonsay is a top ten pick, Colston

473
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 4: Loveland is a top ten pick, and then you've got

474
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 4: DJ Moore who's pretty good, and you've got Luther Burden

475
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 4: who's the second rounder. Cole Kamed is still there the

476
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 4: other tight end, he's the second rounder. You've got plenty

477
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 4: of talent to be good. So in terms of expectations,

478
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 4: I do buy that. Where year two is more like

479
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: the new year five in terms of production, I think

480
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 4: that's a different argument because even though the expectations might

481
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 4: be like year five esque, I don't know that the

482
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 4: production necessarily will be. And if you look at a

483
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: couple of quarterbacks that stand out, even if year two

484
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 4: is lagging in terms of great production, it doesn't mean

485
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 4: it's over, you know what I mean. Like Baker Mayfield

486
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 4: is a good example of that Baker Mayfield has brought

487
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 4: his career back to life. The last two years in Tampa,

488
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 4: Sam Darnold, you look at his year one, two, three,

489
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 4: four number they're hideous. And last year with Minnesota he

490
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 4: revived his career. Also thirty touchdown passes. He had a

491
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 4: big year statistically until the final two games. But the

492
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: point is, yeah, I buy the expectations year two is

493
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 4: the new year five. I wouldn't buy that the production

494
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 4: like year two is the new year five, because I

495
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 4: think even if you're faltering early in your career, if

496
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 4: you guys have proven that you can rejuvenate your career

497
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 4: well down the line. Geno Smith is another guy. He

498
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 4: didn't start for six years and now he's a starter.

499
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: So it can be done.

500
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean, it definitely can be done. The

501
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 3: one thing about the Caleb Williams experience that I find

502
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 3: interesting from the outside looking in is this, what if

503
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson's not good?

504
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: M Yeah, I mean possible.

505
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 3: It seems like everybody has just pinned in, like sharp

506
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 3: eied in, that he's going to be great. There's been

507
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 3: a lot of offensive coordinators that have been red hot

508
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: names that haven't been great when they've gotten to the

509
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 3: head coach role. Some of them are just excellent coordinators

510
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: and they find their way back into those roles and

511
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: find success again. But they're not meant to be head coaches.

512
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting Ben Johnson has given off vibes of

513
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,239
Speaker 3: somebody that's not going to be good. But what if

514
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: he's not as good as people think he is going

515
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: to be? Then what who's going to take the blame here?

516
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 3: Because I tend to think it's going to be the

517
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 3: quarterback first and not the coach.

518
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: No, that's a great point, And you know what it

519
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: makes me think of, too, is it's certainly possible that

520
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: Ben Johnson is a great offensive coordinator and he's a

521
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: mediocre at best head coach.

522
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: That's possible. The funny thing is we always.

523
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 4: Do this where it's like, hey man, Caleb Williams, he

524
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: needs an offensive minded head coach, and it's like that, maybe,

525
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not set in stone that he's going

526
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 4: to have success just because he has an offensive minded

527
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 4: head coach.

528
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 2: If you look at last year, look at.

529
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 4: Jaden Daniels, he's got dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's a defensive

530
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: minded head coach. Russell Wilson had a ton of success

531
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 4: in Seattle with Pete Carroll, defensive minded head coach. Look

532
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: at Brady like they had Belichick, right, the defensive minded

533
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 4: head coach. That's their background. So this idea that, oh,

534
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 4: you got a young quarterback, you gotta have a right

535
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 4: offensive minded head coach, not necessarily.

536
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: And so there are.

537
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 4: Defensive minded head coaches that have success. And just because

538
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: you have an offensive guy at head coach doesn't mean ohpoof,

539
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: here we go, instant success. It's not a given that

540
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 4: it works out that way.

541
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: No. I mean Mike Vrabel is another example, and you

542
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: could potentially see what that's gonna look like in New England.

543
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 3: I think they're going to take steps in the right direction.

544
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 3: The one advantage for Ben Johnson though, is Dennis Allen. Yeah,

545
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 3: because Ben Johnson I would think it's gonna be very

546
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: hands off from a defensive standpoint, right if he focuses

547
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 3: on his side of the ball. Dennis Allen has not

548
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: proven that he can't be a great defensive coordinator. He's

549
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: just proven. Don't give that guy the keys to the

550
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 3: entire football team. Of course. I mean he literally just

551
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 3: was the head coach of the most boring football team

552
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 3: I've ever watched in the National Football League, Like, I

553
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 3: can't imagine that. And look, I think they are completely

554
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 3: boring this year too, but at least Kellen Moore. I

555
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 3: want to see what Kellen Moore can do from an

556
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: offensive from just kind of changing the way everything is

557
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 3: done there with a new quarterback and whatever they're going

558
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: to be. But they don't have like the skill talent

559
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: to your point that the Bears do. They don't have

560
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: a lot of that. They don't have a lot of

561
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 3: those flashy guys. So what exactly that's gonna look like.

562
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think that's another example, right,

563
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: Like Kellen Moore ran an incredibly fun to watch offense

564
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: that was prolific and up and down the field and

565
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: was almost impossible to stop. And now he's gonna go there.

566
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 3: And I don't think anybody is acting like Kellen Moore

567
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 3: is a shoe in. They're not even thinking about Kellen

568
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: Moore because you're looking at everything around him. I just

569
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: feel like the way to the world appears to be

570
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 3: more on Caleb Shoulders than it does this head coach

571
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: who's never been a head coach before. There's a possibility

572
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: that either one of those two guys could falter.

573
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, you're right.

574
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 4: It's funny because they they both could be great for

575
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: each other, they both could be horrible for each other.

576
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 4: You know, maybe Ben Johnson he doesn't have this head

577
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 4: coaching thing figured out quite yet in year one, that's

578
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: certainly possible. And maybe Caleb Williams he doesn't have this

579
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: quarterback thing quite figured out in year two.

580
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: That's also possible.

581
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: But as bright as Ben Johnson is, maybe he can

582
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: put Caleb Williams in some better positions, better offensive line.

583
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 4: Caleb's not getting sacked sixty eight times. I could see

584
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 4: it going both ways for the Bears. I could see

585
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 4: them taking a significant step forward led by Caleb Williams.

586
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: I could see Caleb remaining similar to year one and

587
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 4: they're taking no major step forward at all. I think

588
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 4: both are completely reasonable to happen this season.

589
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and

590
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and

591
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific.

592
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 4: Okay, j Mart, So I'm going to get to man.

593
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 4: Have you checked out the QB tiers thing with Mike Sando.

594
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: The Sando piece. I haven't gotten all the way through it,

595
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: but I have started to kind of go through it.

596
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: I used to have him on every year to cool

597
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: yeah when it came out. Always a lot to discuss

598
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: and debate coming out of that.

599
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: Thing, Oh big time.

600
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: There are some comments on the QB Tiers list, so

601
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: it's just basically ranking all these NFL quarterbacks. Are they

602
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 4: in Tier one, the top tier, all the way down

603
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: to Tier five the worst tier? And some of the

604
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: anonymous quotes are like, what there's something about your guy

605
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: Bo Nicks.

606
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to in a few minutes. But

607
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: there's also this debate.

608
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 4: It's sort of connected to the tiers list, but they're

609
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: talking about who's the fifth best quarterback in the NFL, where,

610
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: in no certain order, most people have Mahomes Josh, Allen, Burrow,

611
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: and Lamar most have them in the top four some

612
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: sort of you know, differing order of the four guys.

613
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 4: But then the question becomes who's number five, Who's fifth

614
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 4: best in the NFL? And you could throw a couple

615
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: of names out there. One name that has been thrown

616
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 4: out by quite a bit of quite a few people

617
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 4: is Jalen Hurts, and I'm curious to what you think, Jason.

618
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 4: I am not in the Jalen Hurts is the top

619
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: five quarterback way of thinking, so he wears number one.

620
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 4: I've got number one, not in the top five. And

621
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 4: for a few reasons here, I just look at Jalen

622
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: Hurts and you can't discount how much talent the guy

623
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 4: has around him. I actually have Jayden Daniels, the Washington

624
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: Commander's quarterback, over Jalen Hurts right now. And you might

625
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 4: look at me sideways like Brian, Jalen Hurts just want

626
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 4: a super Bowl? Yeah, that's right, because it's a much

627
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 4: better supporting cast. You tell me, You tell me with

628
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: a straight face, Jason. If Jaden Daniels is the Eagles

629
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: quarterback with all that talent around him, forget about it.

630
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 4: He's putting up huge numbers. They're still winning at a

631
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 4: high clip. I wouldn't be shocked if they want a

632
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: Super Bowl with him as a rookie.

633
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: If he's on that team.

634
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: Now, if you put Jalen Hurts with the Washington Commanders,

635
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 4: that's not too sexy, right there. No two thousand yard

636
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: running back, no top five wide receiver, no number two

637
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: scoring defense. You know it's the old Uh, it's the

638
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: old line and taken good. Yeah, good luck with that.

639
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: I don't see Jalen Hurts having even close to the

640
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 4: same success. I don't see that team winning a ton

641
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 4: of games. I just don't see that. I don't think

642
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: Jalen Hurts is productive on that level. So I don't

643
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 4: have him as a top five guy. What do you

644
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 4: say to that? Do you have Hurts as the number

645
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: five guy or you go elsewhere?

646
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I know who they have. I wouldn't have

647
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: it there either, just because of age and just I

648
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: don't know if he's going to be available enough during

649
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: the year. I actually would probably put Jayden Daniels at five.

650
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

651
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: Personally to the point about Hurts, my broadcast partner on

652
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: our Saturday program, Aaron Taures, has said that Jayalen Hurts

653
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: has become the new Dak Prescott in terms of how

654
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: he's talked about and how he has discussed, and I

655
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: think there is truth to that. However, I think Jaywen

656
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 3: Hurts is an incredible leader. I think he's a better

657
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: leader and a dude that you want to go to

658
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: war with. I think that he's stronger in that than

659
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: he is some of the nuts and bolts of being

660
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: an NFL quarterback. As an athlete. We know what he

661
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: is as a thrower. At times, it can look good.

662
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: At times, it certainly looks a lot better than it

663
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: did in college. He has worked hard to get better,

664
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: and he has gotten better. I would go to war

665
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 3: with Jaywen Hurts and feel pretty good about it most

666
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: of the time. But to your point, I think from

667
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: and I also think that Jayden Daniels has proven out

668
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: to be a pretty good leader. I mean, LSU might

669
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: have won three games if he hadn't been quarterback man

670
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: the year that he won the Heisman Trophy. I think

671
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: he's he's kind of a different guy. Like I know

672
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: how we felt about c J. Stroud after year one,

673
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: and then CJ he took a bit of a step back.

674
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 3: But I also he dealt with a lot of injuries

675
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: and I think he took some unfair critique. There was

676
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: some more tape on him, and he might not have

677
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: been as sure of himself throwing the ball. I still

678
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: believe in CJ. Stroud. I think he is likely to

679
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: have a good year this year, and I still like

680
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: his prospects from his career but if you start to

681
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: look at these other guys you mentioned, mahomes Boro, Allen Jackson, Yeah,

682
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: they're all going to be there. Then they have Stafford,

683
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: and that's where I'm just kind of I'm not as sure.

684
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: So to your question directly, yes, I have Jayden Daniels

685
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: above Jayalen Hurts. I have a hard time with some

686
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: of the names, some of the other names, like they've

687
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: got Justin Herbert and Jared Goff both above Jalen Hurts

688
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: as well. That's where I'm not assured, because I've also

689
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: seen Jared Goff play pretty poorly in games that have

690
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: knocked his team out of the playoffs a few times

691
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: in a row. I feel like Jayalen Hurts deserves more

692
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: respect than to be beneath probably Goff and certainly a

693
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: Herbert that to me has just not done anything yet.

694
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: And he, to me, is still one of the more

695
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: fascinating discussions in the NFL because I am constantly told

696
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: how great he is, yet he still hasn't won anything.

697
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair.

698
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 4: It's funny, right, because you can look at what is

699
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 4: You can look at all these quarterbacks on their teams

700
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 4: with their exact supporting casts or you could do something

701
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 4: maybe a little more dangerous, right, which is if you

702
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 4: do the swap thing. I just keep going back to

703
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: Jalen Hurts is driving a luxury automobile, you.

704
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: Know what I mean, and he only has to do

705
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 2: so much.

706
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 4: I remember, you know, a long time ago, Shannon Sharp

707
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 4: was talking about the Denver Broncos and this is like

708
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 4: ninety seven ninety eight when they're winning back to back

709
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 4: championships and John Elway was hurt for about four games

710
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 4: and Bubby Brister was the backup quarterback and I've got

711
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 4: audio somewhere, but he is. And Shannon Sharp was on

712
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 4: NFL Networks America's game and he was.

713
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: Like, Bubby, this is a sports car.

714
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 4: Okay, just as long as you don't strip the gears,

715
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 4: you know, like, just keep this thing.

716
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: On the highway, We're gonna be fine. Just don't screw

717
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: it up. That's basically where Jalen Hurts is.

718
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: With as much talent as around him, he is driving

719
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 4: a high priced luxury sports car and justin Herbert, I

720
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 4: don't want to make it sound like it's the most

721
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: broken down JALOPPI there is, but he doesn't have surrounding him.

722
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 4: What Jalen Hurts does and that matters. So if you

723
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 4: look at it from that standpoint, it changes things a bit.

724
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: Even though what you said is on point as well.

725
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 4: Justin Herbert he doesn't have any postseason success to speak of.

726
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: He's had some stinkers. He had a couple of big

727
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 4: turnovers in the last playoff game against the Texans. So

728
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 4: you could look at it as is, or you could

729
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 4: start saying, hey, that's an interesting way to look at

730
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: the supporting cast and how much it means for the quarterback.

731
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something to that.

732
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: I mean, again, as good as Herbert is from just

733
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 3: a nuts and bolts standpoint of the things that you

734
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 3: want to do to be quarterback and has the arm

735
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 3: and has all those things, like how many guys have

736
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: become a whole lot better because he's been their quarterback.

737
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that yet. And this is not me

738
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: being like total naysayer on Justin Herbert. I see the

739
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: talent too, I just need to see it actually translate

740
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 3: to something like we give guys like Lamar and Josh

741
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: Allen a lot of crap because they haven't made it

742
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: to a super Bowl yet and deservedly so, because the

743
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: expectations get higher for guys like that. But it seems

744
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 3: like Herbert hasn't been held to that metric as much.

745
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: And I wonder if that would start to shift if

746
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: this year, you know, we start to see I mean,

747
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: this is year two with Harball, and you should see

748
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 3: another step this year. You shouldn't see running in place,

749
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 3: And you know, I just want to stop seeing the

750
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: treadmill effect with him.

751
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 4: No, I get it, I totally get it. And that's

752
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 4: the funny thing is I think he can make like

753
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 4: valid points on both sides because I look at Herbert

754
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: and if you're like, okay, let's go in benefit.

755
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: Of the doubt mode, you know, like, what does he

756
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: have around him?

757
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 4: If you look at last year, he had Lad McConkie,

758
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 4: who was a daisy fresh rookie who was fantastic last season.

759
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 4: And what you know, you had Will Disley who he

760
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 4: had some decent games but got banged up. You had

761
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 4: Quinton Johnston who can't catch.

762
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: At all, you know what I mean?

763
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 4: Like, that's not what Jalen Hurts has around him. So

764
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: I don't want to make excuses left and right for Herbert.

765
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 4: You're right, he's got to do a lot more than

766
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: he has done, but at the same rate, the supporting

767
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 4: cast matters. I always point to Draymond Green. You know,

768
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: Draymond Green on the Wizards, he's an average role player

769
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: who gets thrown out of a lot more games. Yeah,

770
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 4: you've never heard of him before, But Draymond with the Warriors,

771
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 4: he's a Hall of Famer. Like, what you're surrounded by

772
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: matters a whole lot. This is the part of the

773
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: QB Tiers that made me do a little John. You know,

774
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: he's famous for saying that's right. I saw this comment.

775
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it. So there's a coach, a mystery coach,

776
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 4: somewhere in the NFL, lurking behind a fence post or something,

777
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,959
Speaker 4: and he says he thinks that bow knicks your guy.

778
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 4: The Broncos could overtake Jaden Daniels this season. Now this

779
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: is the comment. I get where he's coming from. But

780
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 4: so this is the QB Tiers. Mike Sando interviews all

781
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 4: these coaches, executives, GMS, all these guys, and they have

782
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: anonymous quotes about quarterbacks. And this was the one from

783
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 4: a mystery coach that said, what we are going to

784
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 4: see is Sean Payton's ability to develop a quarterback relative

785
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 4: to Cliff Kingsbury's ability to do that. Both players, meaning

786
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 4: bow Knicks and Jayden Daniels, appear to be dialed into

787
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 4: the profession of quarterbacking, taking care of the body.

788
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: Come in early, leaving late being all about ball.

789
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 4: I'm interested in seeing who is able to grow the

790
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 4: most this coming year. I actually think bow Knicks is

791
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 4: going to win out in that.

792
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: Wow, do you see bow Knicks overtaking Jaden Daniels this season?

793
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: No, I don't even know. I mean, I feel good

794
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 3: about bo going into year two. Everything I've heard has

795
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 3: been really positive. I love that he has spent time

796
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: with Drew Brees in the offseason as well, like he

797
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: clearly is committed to this, and just what you hear

798
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 3: about what Sean Payton felt about him prior to the draft,

799
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: you just feel like he's in a really good situation.

800
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 3: At the same time, I don't know how much Cliff

801
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: Kingsbury needs to develop Jaden Daniels, because Jaden Daniels.

802
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: Just has it right right.

803
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: So I don't know that this is as much about

804
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 3: I don't know that I need to put so much

805
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: on Cliff Kingsbury's shoulders. I might feel differently if this

806
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 3: were like a Caleb Williams conversation and we were talking

807
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: about Cliff Kingsbury because there was still some development that

808
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: needed to be done. In Chicago, you actually got regression

809
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 3: because you didn't have anybody there that could help him

810
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: develop and work on some of those things and feel

811
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: more confident in them. But as it relates to this,

812
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 3: I I like that that you're thinking about Bonnicks in

813
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: that way, if you are this person, right, But I

814
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 3: think that's a bridge too far. I think that's the

815
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: kind of thing you have to let happen, but not predict,

816
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: because there's just not enough. There's no reason to believe that.

817
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: I don't. I could see Washington take a mild step

818
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 3: back this year, just because I think they flew really,

819
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 3: really high last year. But there's no reason to think

820
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: that Jaden Daniels is really coming back down to earth,

821
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 3: because it's not as if what he was doing was

822
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: a gimmick, like, it's just he's just good at the position.

823
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 3: So no, I don't. I don't. I don't think that

824
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: he's gonna end up better than Daniels. I don't I

825
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 3: do think he's going to finish the season a very

826
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: strong number two from last year's class. I think that's

827
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 3: fair because I'm not sure about Pennix and there's still

828
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 3: a lot of question marks about Kleb Williams in this situation.

829
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 3: But I think that it's disrespectful to say anything other

830
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: than Jadon Daniels is on a completely different plane right

831
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: now than the rest of those guys.

832
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, he really is. That's how special he was last season.

833
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 4: And that's the thing is. I think that you could

834
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 4: make this argument with you know, a quarterbacks current team.

835
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 4: Could Bo Nicks be more productive throwing the ball?

836
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: Sure?

837
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 4: You just look at last season, bow Knicks had four

838
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: more touchdown passes and three more interceptions, right, like they're

839
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 4: in the same zip code. Throwing the ball like bo

840
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: Nicks had more passing yards. You could look at them,

841
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 4: you know, this way, that way, all across the board.

842
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 4: The difference is rushing yards. Jaden Daniels just an absolute playmaker.

843
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 4: Bo Knicks can move around too, he's an athlete. But

844
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 4: Jaden Daniels, I think that, Hey, could Bo Knicks be

845
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 4: more productive with the Broncos and Sean Payton this season?

846
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

847
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 4: In certain categories. I think he could. He was last year,

848
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 4: so I think he could do it again or maybe

849
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 4: even grow a little bit. But then I think there's

850
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 4: an argument, okay, forget about their current team, on any team,

851
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like who's better than who?

852
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 4: Jayden Daniels is the class of that draft so far,

853
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 4: and I think bow Knicks He's got a longer. That's

854
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 4: that's a high hill to climb to be like the

855
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 4: guy of the class over Jaden Daniels. I just I

856
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 4: don't see Bo Knicks exceeding as much as Jayden Daniels

857
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: falls back. I just I don't think that he's close

858
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 4: enough to pass him up in year two. I just

859
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 4: don't see that happening.

860
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 3: I think both of them are going to have good years.

861
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: I think both those football teams ought to have pretty

862
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 3: good years. But yeah, I just I think that you

863
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: got to get to the end of the season say wow,

864
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 3: Bo Nicks somehow ended up with a better season than

865
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: Jayde Daniels. I feel like that's the kind of quote

866
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 3: you say that you're not going to be to account

867
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: for because it's anonymous, and it's perfect for Mike Sando

868
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: or anybody that wants to put an article like this

869
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: together because it's instant debate. It's exactly right for the

870
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 3: way that sports media is done now.

871
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 4: I could just see him doing a Tiger Woods fist pump, like, Yeah,

872
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 4: that's what we're talking about right there.

873
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 3: That's right, that's what I wanted.

874
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: That's right.