Speaker 1: Hi, get Everyboddy.
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Board and thanks for downloading The Bengals Booth Podcast,
Speaker 2: the I Go Back Edition as I take an in
Speaker 2: depth look back at the highs and lows of the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three season with my buddy Jeffhobson from Bengals
Speaker 2: dot Com. But first I'll talk to a player who
Speaker 2: finished a disappointing year on a very positive note, Joseph Osai.
Speaker 2: The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corp,
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Speaker 2: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's
Speaker 2: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition
Speaker 2: of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet or
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Speaker 2: greatest thing since Bengals Fans Helping, Ted Carris help others.
Speaker 2: From December fifth to January eighth, Nationwide Insurance held a
Speaker 2: contest called the Charity Challenge, where people could vote for
Speaker 2: one of the thirty two nominees for this year's Walter
Speaker 2: Payton NFL Man of the Year Award. There's one nominee
Speaker 2: from each team. The winner of that fan vote receives
Speaker 2: a thirty five thousand dollars donation that goes directly to
Speaker 2: the player's charity of choice thanks to Houda Nation. This
Speaker 2: year's winner was Ted Carris, meaning the donation goes to
Speaker 2: the Village of Marichi, a supportive community for adults living
Speaker 2: with disabilities. Now we'll see if Ted wins the actual
Speaker 2: Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, which will
Speaker 2: be announced on the Thursday of Super Bowl Week. The
Speaker 2: winner of that receives a two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars donation to the charity of his choice. So good
Speaker 2: luck to Ted. Now let's get to this week's guests.
Speaker 2: In the Bengals season ending win over Cleveland, one of
Speaker 2: their highest graded players was Joseph Osai, who had a
Speaker 2: couple of quarterback hits, including one where he made contact
Speaker 2: with Jeff Driscoll's arm leading to an easy interception for
Speaker 2: Logan Wilson. Osai played twenty six snaps in the game,
Speaker 2: his second highest total of the season in a year
Speaker 2: where he was only on the field for sixteen percent
Speaker 2: of the Bengals defensive plays. Prior to the Cleveland game,
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator lou An Aroumo was asked if he wished
Speaker 2: that Osai was further along in his development.
Speaker 3: I think he would answer the question just like I'm
Speaker 3: going to and I don't want to speak for him,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I mean, I think again, it's all of us,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think Joe would want to have a
Speaker 3: bigger role, of bigger impact and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm just hoping for him.
Speaker 3: He can come into the offseason without an injury and
Speaker 3: he can train, and you know, we can see a
Speaker 3: better Joseph Osaia going forward. His walk to his effort
Speaker 3: has been tremendous. It's just amount of going out there
Speaker 3: and doing it.
Speaker 2: Joseph missed his entire rookie year due to injury, then
Speaker 2: flashed at times last year, leading to the hope that
Speaker 2: he would be a valuable pass rusher this season, But
Speaker 2: after having shoulder surgery in the off season, he hurt
Speaker 2: his ankle in the final preseason game and finished the
Speaker 2: year with just one sack. I talked to him about
Speaker 2: it this week. I thought you finished the season on
Speaker 2: a really positive note. How did you feel about the finale?
Speaker 2: Felt great.
Speaker 4: It just felt great to be fine, be able to
Speaker 4: impact the game in a positive way. So, yeah, looking
Speaker 4: forward to being healthy, staying healthy, and everything's a lesson
Speaker 4: and it's all for a purpose. And I got to
Speaker 4: go back to work, that's all.
Speaker 2: Coach, and Romo was raving about your work ethic, how
Speaker 2: hard you're trying to be what I think we all
Speaker 2: know you're capable of being. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: heard those comments or saw those comments, but clearly the
Speaker 2: fact that you didn't have a big season this year
Speaker 2: was not a matter of effort.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't see those comments, and I appreciate him
Speaker 4: for those commerce. You know, he's a he's a great coacher,
Speaker 4: great guy. But yeah, you know that's unfortunately that's ball.
Speaker 4: You gotta you gotta get on the field to able
Speaker 4: to do anything in the first place. And but you know,
Speaker 4: everybody's story is different now that everybody comes on the
Speaker 4: scene and is the guy didn't.
Speaker 1: Want to be at first.
Speaker 4: But you hear stories about guys who work in the
Speaker 4: shadows till year six, year seven, and then they become
Speaker 4: the stars they want to be. They're able to impact
Speaker 4: games and be be a dominant for it. So you know,
Speaker 4: it's just it's it's always work, you know. I That's
Speaker 4: all I. I don't know any different. So it's always
Speaker 4: gonna be work, and we'll hope for the best.
Speaker 2: Guy Will what do you think your offseason looks like?
Speaker 4: Oh, it's I've been spoiled. I've been spoiled with h
Speaker 4: My rookieyear went to the Super Bowl. Last year, we
Speaker 4: went to the NMC Championship. So now I don't even
Speaker 4: know what to do. I don't know how I should
Speaker 4: schedule my time, where how long I should take off,
Speaker 4: or what do I should do during his time right
Speaker 4: now cause we're usually in the playoffs. But I'm gonna
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time with the fan. That's what's
Speaker 4: important to me right now. So spend time with the fam,
Speaker 4: stay in shape, workout, and you know, my first off
Speaker 4: season without having to have a surgery, so that's also
Speaker 4: a blessing. We thank God for that and just go
Speaker 4: from there.
Speaker 2: Trey had a mindster season. Mark your position. Did you
Speaker 2: learn anything from watching him? Have seventeen and a half sab.
Speaker 4: Solutely taking what he had and using it at practice,
Speaker 4: not just trying to bring it out it during game days.
Speaker 4: But like I said, the process he's his process is
Speaker 4: so unique and his mentality also his confidence in himself,
Speaker 4: And in a way it helped me bring me It
Speaker 4: helped bring me close to God too, because he's such
Speaker 4: a huge believer in God and he's a great guy.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was it was great to this is
Speaker 4: my understudy year, so to speak, working under him and
Speaker 4: learning from him and and getting to observe him. Just
Speaker 4: be a master of what he does. And if you
Speaker 4: don't think he's a master of what he does, you're
Speaker 4: you're you're mistaken. For sure. He's unstoppable, completely unstoppable.
Speaker 2: He's so maniacally focused. Almost anytime I came in here
Speaker 2: in the off season, he was here, and it's just
Speaker 2: his one track mind to be great at what he does.
Speaker 2: Really is striking.
Speaker 4: If you're from the outside looking in, you can you
Speaker 4: would call it crazy, you would call it you would,
Speaker 4: you would, you would say a lot of things about it.
Speaker 4: But he he is dedicated to his craft and he's
Speaker 4: dedicated to his God, and those two things when you
Speaker 4: put them together, you get greatness. I can bet on
Speaker 4: it right now. He's gonna be one of the goods,
Speaker 4: and I can't wait to see it happen. He was.
Speaker 4: That's a huge mention to me this year because this
Speaker 4: confidence in myself still even though I haven't gotten a
Speaker 4: chance to prove it, is confidence of myself too that
Speaker 4: I also will be great. He was a huge, huge, huge,
Speaker 4: huge health for me this year. He doesn't even know it,
Speaker 4: but yeah, So this confidence in myself that I'm going
Speaker 4: to be great, and I just have to get the
Speaker 4: opportunity and not take, not take lightly the opportunity at all.
Speaker 4: Whatever however it comes, whatever it looks like, never take it,
Speaker 4: never take it for granted, never take it lightly, and
Speaker 4: then go dominate what it's worth.
Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson had a total of six and a half
Speaker 2: sacks in his first three seasons, then broke out in
Speaker 2: year four with thirteen and a half, and that's roughly
Speaker 2: what Trey has averaged over the last four seasons. Here's
Speaker 2: hoping that Joseph Osai also has a breakout season in
Speaker 2: year four. The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you
Speaker 2: by pay Corps Proud to be the Bengals official HR
Speaker 2: software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
Speaker 2: to elevate your home, business, and community to a new level,
Speaker 2: and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
Speaker 2: Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.
Speaker 2: Now time for a comprehensive look back at the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three season. It was a winning year at nine
Speaker 2: to eight, but one that fell short of the Bengals
Speaker 2: Super Bowl aspirations. I discussed it with Bengals dot Com
Speaker 2: editor Jeff Butch Hobson. It is the second week of
Speaker 2: January and for the first time in three years, we
Speaker 2: are not looking ahead to a playoff game unfortunately. Instead,
Speaker 2: I'm with Jeff Hobson and we are looking back and
Speaker 2: a nine and eight season. We are going to tackle
Speaker 2: several topics on this podcast, some serious, some just for fun.
Speaker 2: We begin with this some up the season in a sentence.
Speaker 1: It was really good until July twenty eighth, and that's
Speaker 1: when the ducked and then an ellipses there and they
Speaker 1: hit it, which was too bad because, as you know,
Speaker 1: July twenty eighth, and I think that's the right date
Speaker 1: was The second practice was a second practice a training camp,
Speaker 1: and Joe Burrow had a strained calf, and I think
Speaker 1: that's just this is this is the year of the
Speaker 1: strained calf. It's the year of the torn ligament in
Speaker 1: the wrist. I mean, that's just no two ways about it.
Speaker 1: And you know, and from that afternoon on from training camp,
Speaker 1: it's it was kind of a cloud over the season
Speaker 1: and what if.
Speaker 2: So that first practice was awesome, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It was. It was. It was a fifteen to two practice.
Speaker 2: All right, are you ready for my sentence? Yes, please,
Speaker 2: we interrupt this program. That's my sentence for the season.
Speaker 2: Because when anybody asked me about the Bengals chances prior
Speaker 2: to the season, my answer was always, I think they're
Speaker 2: going to the super Bowl if Joe Burrow stays healthy,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately he did not. But to me, it's an interruption,
Speaker 2: it's not an ending. We saw the five game stretch
Speaker 2: where they were great. They were four and one, They
Speaker 2: could have easily been five and zero if Tyler Boyd
Speaker 2: didn't drop that pass late in the Houston game. They
Speaker 2: beat San Francisco by fourteen, They beat Buffalo by six
Speaker 2: and led by fourteen late in that game and when
Speaker 2: Joe threw his final pass of the year, they had
Speaker 2: the lead in the second quarter at Baltimore. So to me,
Speaker 2: we interrupt this program the Bengals as we think of them.
Speaker 2: Hopefully we'll be back in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Unfortunately, it was a big interruption. I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't Walter Cronkite coming in on as
Speaker 1: the World turns, but it was, you know, it was
Speaker 1: I mean, that's who they are. I believe that that's
Speaker 1: who they are. They're that four and one team. Now
Speaker 1: does that mean they're going to go fifteen and two
Speaker 1: or fourteen and three? I mean, well, fourteen and three,
Speaker 1: thirteen and four. That's the kind of team they were
Speaker 1: kind of evolving to, I think, and you know, granted
Speaker 1: a lot of questions in the off season and who
Speaker 1: comes back and who doesn't. But the DNA is still there,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, the big thing of Courses Burrow
Speaker 1: if he's healthy and I you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: just a hard season that kind of wrapping around because
Speaker 1: there were the ebbs and flows. It was it seemed
Speaker 1: like there were like four different seasons. It was continued.
Speaker 1: I haven't even taught we haven't even mentioned the name
Speaker 1: Jake Browning, you know who was started the last seven
Speaker 1: games of the year. But even before Jake get in there,
Speaker 1: there there was the strained calf, there was the struggles
Speaker 1: in September, then there was that great run and then
Speaker 1: he get hurt, and so it was like there was
Speaker 1: like four or five different seasons. It felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: you were covering four different seasons. It was hopefully we
Speaker 1: won't have another year like it, because we've had about
Speaker 1: five in about eleven months.
Speaker 2: I suspect we will get to the name Jake Browning
Speaker 2: and our second topic, which is what was the silver
Speaker 2: lining and a disappointing year?
Speaker 1: I mean that's it. I mean that is look at
Speaker 1: if we were having a beer on July fourth and
Speaker 1: I laid out all the things and they're gonna be
Speaker 1: uh six Harrison bucker Field goals away from going to
Speaker 1: the playoffs, what you would have thought I'd had one
Speaker 1: too many, you know, to me, that is the silver lining.
Speaker 1: They survived with a backup quarterback all the way to
Speaker 1: the end, which shows you the roster, and they there
Speaker 1: were people talking and now it seems so long ago.
Speaker 1: But going into that, this training camp and people talking
Speaker 1: to you know, this may be the best roster you know,
Speaker 1: we've had in this in this century, certainly in the
Speaker 1: last fifteen years maybe, And I think they were proven
Speaker 1: correct because they went nine to eight without you know,
Speaker 1: and you forget you had you didn't have t Higgins
Speaker 1: for four games, and you know, didn't have the big
Speaker 1: man for seven and look at how close. Shit, look
Speaker 1: at how close she came. That's coaching and that's and
Speaker 1: that's roster and that's that's that's a silver line. That's
Speaker 1: two silver linings.
Speaker 2: Totally agree. Jake Browning is the silver lining. We have
Speaker 2: eliminated a very important question, and that is who is
Speaker 2: the backup quarterback. We didn't know it going into the year.
Speaker 2: Is it Browning? Is it Trevor Simeon? Do they have
Speaker 2: to go get somebody else? They did Will Greer. I mean,
Speaker 2: we still didn't know really until Joe Burrow went down.
Speaker 1: Now we do.
Speaker 2: Jake Browning had a passer rating of ninety eight point four,
Speaker 2: That is tied for fifth best in franchise history in
Speaker 2: a single season. That was Kenny Anderson's passer rating in
Speaker 2: his MVP season. He was great, so were Zach Brian
Speaker 2: Dan Pitcher during the time that Joe was out, as
Speaker 2: they suited the offense to his strengths. And now we'll
Speaker 2: see if some of those elements will be incorporated more
Speaker 2: next year. Zach says, we were starting to do those
Speaker 2: things anyway, and we would have if you know, if
Speaker 2: Joe didn't hurt his calf in training camp. Well, we'll see,
Speaker 2: but I would like to think that there will be
Speaker 2: more under center run, more screen game things that make
Speaker 2: it more offensive line friendly. I think not only was
Speaker 2: the offense Jake Browning friendly, I think it was offensive
Speaker 2: line friendly, which would be good for that group.
Speaker 1: You know, again, I guess I guess the question is,
Speaker 1: you know, how much do you want to expose Burrow
Speaker 1: on those naked bootlegs because Jake was so good at those.
Speaker 1: But I would think Burrow would be outstanding at those.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess as long as you knew he
Speaker 1: wasn't going to take a shot, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you know? But I mean, you know, Zach talked
Speaker 1: about balance. I think that's probably the one thing about
Speaker 1: this offseason, and I know you asked us about it
Speaker 1: about the press. Uh to him at the press conference about, uh,
Speaker 1: you know regimen. Now that they're a month. You know,
Speaker 1: these last two years they went into you know into
Speaker 1: basically February, and one year they went into mid February.
Speaker 1: Now that changes, and now that actually is probably a
Speaker 1: positive because you know they'll be able to rest and
Speaker 1: so balance, it's balanced. It's it's it's getting your players
Speaker 1: to the gate, but they getting them ready for the opener.
Speaker 1: It's balance run pass, you know under center, and that's
Speaker 1: that's something that they talked about. I think then that's
Speaker 1: that's something I think they'll they'll strive to. That's gonna
Speaker 1: be the off season theme, I think is balanced.
Speaker 2: What was the biggest disappointment to me?
Speaker 1: It had to be the defense. I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: they were so good down the stretch last year in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, in that ten game winning streak. I
Speaker 1: mean they were they were the spine of that of
Speaker 1: that I mean, as good as Joe was, the defense
Speaker 1: was the spine of that run. And you know, when
Speaker 1: they turned this thing around from twenty twenty to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, they did it with the run game. They
Speaker 1: were there was what you have to do in the
Speaker 1: AFC North, and they were so good against the run,
Speaker 1: and they were not good against the run. I guess
Speaker 1: that was that was the disappointing thing. And I know
Speaker 1: you're gonna ask me about the biggest mystery. You can
Speaker 1: probably it's probably the same thing. It's because they were
Speaker 1: so good last year. They basically had the same same
Speaker 1: people accepted safety, and I guess we have to take
Speaker 1: a look at the safety position. It's maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit more important than perhaps people thought. But you know,
Speaker 1: I would expect that, Diyll. That's another silver lining. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine them having another season like this again once
Speaker 1: Luke gets into the laboratory and straights it out.
Speaker 2: My biggest disappointment is one in five in the AFC
Speaker 2: North and the only win was against the Cleveland team,
Speaker 2: basically resting everybody. Now, in fairness, the Bengals did not
Speaker 2: have a healthy Joe Burrow for any of those games,
Speaker 2: at least for four quarters. He was healthy for about
Speaker 2: a quarter and a third at Baltimore, but that was it,
Speaker 2: and that's a huge factor. But Joe did not play defense,
Speaker 2: and this team was especially bad on defense in those
Speaker 2: AFC North games. Thirty four points allowed at Baltimore, thirty
Speaker 2: four allowed at Pittsburgh. With Mason Rudolph at quarterback. They
Speaker 2: made Kenny Pickett to Pat Fryarmouth look like Mahomes to
Speaker 2: Kelsey and the rushing yards allowed in those AFC North
Speaker 2: games scary two to six against Cleveland one seventy eight
Speaker 2: and week two against Baltimore one fifty three at home
Speaker 2: against the Steelers. If you cannot stop the run in
Speaker 2: this division against Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, you are doomed.
Speaker 1: Remember the last game here in twenty twenty when I
Speaker 1: think Baltimore rushed for maybe four hundred yards, but they
Speaker 1: didn't have you know, they had a skeleton crew there.
Speaker 1: DJ Reader was out and they were playing with guys
Speaker 1: that they had just picked up during the year. So
Speaker 1: it's a different deal. But I think it's the same
Speaker 1: sentiment going into the going into the offseason that that's
Speaker 1: going to get fixed. And it would seem to me,
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, it's the same guys that
Speaker 1: were the spine of that playoff run in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think the hope is the safety's
Speaker 1: Dax Hille Jordan Battle two, first year guy basically two
Speaker 1: first year starters that they're going to be better in
Speaker 1: year two. I think that's the you know, certainly, daxas
Speaker 1: all the athleticism that you could want. He's a first
Speaker 1: round pick. He's legitimate first round pick. Jordan Battle, I
Speaker 1: think is everything they thought he was when they you know,
Speaker 1: Darren Simmons when they interviewed in the eighteen minutes in Indy.
Speaker 1: He started his name because he was so good and
Speaker 1: he was great after the game about his interception, his
Speaker 1: first interception in the finale here Sunday, he broke it
Speaker 1: down and everything is he Von Bell? You know do
Speaker 1: we have I think they've got you got guys, Dax Hill.
Speaker 1: I think he's going through what Jesse Bates did. I
Speaker 1: think Battle could you know, Battle could be Von Bell?
Speaker 1: Like maybe not maybe maybe doesn't have, you know, quite
Speaker 1: the blue chip talent of a Bell. But I think
Speaker 1: he certainly is a locker room guy and knowledge. He's
Speaker 1: certainly headed there. It's just in the NFL, they don't
Speaker 1: wait around for these guys, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: They don't wait around. You got to do it now.
Speaker 1: And I think you know they I guess they paid,
Speaker 1: you know, they paid a little bit of a price.
Speaker 1: But I think what's the alternative in this day and
Speaker 1: age when you've signed Joe Burrow to a big contract,
Speaker 1: you can't go out and get a pay Jesse Bates
Speaker 1: and Von Bell. You just you just can't. You can't
Speaker 1: do it. You know, you gotta You're gonna you gotta
Speaker 1: rely on these young guys to come along. And I
Speaker 1: think they're two good young guys. You just got to
Speaker 1: hope that they that they're gonna they're gonna take that leap.
Speaker 2: You teased our next topic, what was the biggest mystery
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three?
Speaker 1: Probably the probably the defense, I guess probably, I mean
Speaker 1: because stopping the run specifically that and I think the
Speaker 1: big plays because they never with with Lou. You know,
Speaker 1: Lou was always good about that. You know, we got
Speaker 1: to get to stop the explosives, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing that probably upset me, maybe even
Speaker 1: more than not being able to stop it or I
Speaker 1: think if you talk to Lou, that's that's the thing
Speaker 1: that really upset him, was those explosives. And I know
Speaker 1: Nick Scott talked about this, uh, he talked about the
Speaker 1: explosives after the season and he you know, what stuck
Speaker 1: with him was was the Houston game, and that really
Speaker 1: might have been the turning point in a way. The
Speaker 1: turning point was obviously when Burrow get hurt, but the
Speaker 1: fact the offense played terrific, you know, and the offense
Speaker 1: and the defense just didn't you know, just couldn't didn't
Speaker 1: have that one stop and kept and gave up eight
Speaker 1: plays of twenty yards. That was That was really the
Speaker 1: stunning thing, how they just kept getting the ball thrown
Speaker 1: over them, you know, I mean, uh, that was uh
Speaker 1: and I and I know Lou's gonna get that fixed.
Speaker 1: And I think I do think you can probably chuck
Speaker 1: that up to some of the inexperience back there, because
Speaker 1: not only Dax and Jordan, but you had a rookie
Speaker 1: corner and DJ Journal who had to play a lot,
Speaker 1: which I think is kind of a silver lining too.
Speaker 1: I know DJ had his uh had his ups and downs,
Speaker 1: but he got a lot of snaps in and I
Speaker 1: think he showed that he's going to be a very
Speaker 1: good NFL corner and uh, you know, with a woozy
Speaker 1: ab and a free agent, you know, I think he's
Speaker 1: you know, they need him to come on and the
Speaker 1: fact that he played so many snaps. I think that's
Speaker 1: a silver lining too, But you know he was living
Speaker 1: and learning to back there. So uh yeah, I just
Speaker 1: you know, right right right down to the end against
Speaker 1: Kansas City with those you know, because if you remember
Speaker 1: when they were in the two games they wont no, well,
Speaker 1: in the games they've beaten Kansas City, they stayed away
Speaker 1: from that. When they had it was great, you know
Speaker 1: those you know, with Hill and Kelsey and everything, they
Speaker 1: would shut that down. It didn't happen this last time
Speaker 1: on Kansas City. And if it did, it might be
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. If they didn't, if they're about two
Speaker 1: or three big plays away for being in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: That was definitely a mystery. I'll give you another one.
Speaker 2: Why can't the Bengals run for a yard on third
Speaker 2: and one and fourth and one? If you had to
Speaker 2: guess what the typical team does when they run on
Speaker 2: third and one or fourth and one. I don't have
Speaker 2: a league wide average, but I can give you the
Speaker 2: numbers in the AFC. North Baltimore on third and one
Speaker 2: successful seventy six percent of the time, fourth and one
Speaker 2: eighty three percent of the time. Now, these are just
Speaker 2: runs Pittsburgh third and third and one seventy three percent
Speaker 2: of the time, fourth down eighty eight percent of the time,
Speaker 2: the Browns third down and one seventy one percent of
Speaker 2: the time, fourth and one eighty one percent of the time.
Speaker 2: Here are the Bengals numbers on third and one and
Speaker 2: fourth and one this year, third and one when they
Speaker 2: ran successful fifty nine percent of the time. When they
Speaker 2: ran on fourth and one sixty percent of the time,
Speaker 2: so fifteen percent lower than their division rivals on third
Speaker 2: and one, twenty to thirty percent lower than their division
Speaker 2: rivals on fourth and one. Why was that the case? Well,
Speaker 2: there are probably a lot of reasons, but I'll say this,
Speaker 2: the coaches are much smarter than I am about this stuff.
Speaker 2: But how about a fullback? How about taking Sam Hubbard
Speaker 2: like he used to and lining him up at fullback
Speaker 2: or domatop echo back in the day. Could we try
Speaker 2: something like that on third and one or fourth and one.
Speaker 1: I guess you know you can't criticize that then for
Speaker 1: not running in on third and one and fourth and
Speaker 1: one because because the numbers are because the numbers are
Speaker 1: with them, I guess so. And uh, And the Zachs
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what though, and I and those are
Speaker 1: interesting numbers in the AFC North. I think that is more.
Speaker 1: I think that speaks more to the town, the AC
Speaker 1: North because I look at these other games and of
Speaker 1: course it's just a guy watching TV. I I you know,
Speaker 1: but a lot of teams have prouble, trouble it seems
Speaker 1: like on the short yard stuff. And it's amazing because
Speaker 1: it's it's it's only a yard, but it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw there have been Pittsburgh almost lost the game
Speaker 1: or almost had a chance of losing the game because
Speaker 1: they couldn't convert because they looked like they were a
Speaker 1: little confused. But you know, I think it's you know,
Speaker 1: I think it comes down to does it come down
Speaker 1: you know? I think these guys are you hear the criticism, well,
Speaker 1: the offensive line they're past protectors because we're because the
Speaker 1: Bengals are a past first team, and o't buy that.
Speaker 1: They're tough guys. They're physical guys. They can move people.
Speaker 1: We've seen it move people in the running game. So
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I think it's a uh,
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's a That's why it's
Speaker 1: a mystery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Philly, by the way, on fourth and one with
Speaker 2: the brotherly shove uns successful.
Speaker 1: How many injuries?
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 1: I hate that thing because it just looks like a
Speaker 1: football version of a something you see on seventy four
Speaker 1: that is on on I seventy four. It just, you know,
Speaker 1: it looks like a lot of rubber Yeah, just a
Speaker 1: lot of rubbernecking. You know, it just doesn't look good.
Speaker 1: But I you know, but ninety two percent is ninety
Speaker 1: two percent. Might be it might be driving Jason Kelsey
Speaker 1: in the retirement though.
Speaker 2: All right, let's move on your favorite moment of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three.
Speaker 1: You know, Tyler Boyd's catching overtime in the Vikings game.
Speaker 1: That was that was unbelievable, one of the greatest catches
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in just a crunch time with the
Speaker 1: playoffs on the line.
Speaker 2: And maybe the second best catch in that game because
Speaker 2: of T Higgins.
Speaker 1: But I think my favorite moment is when it still
Speaker 1: involves Tyler Boyd. I love Tyler Boyd because he's always
Speaker 1: got great moments, you know. But when Jake Browning came over,
Speaker 1: it was an off Okay, if it's an off the
Speaker 1: field moment when everybody's around Tyler Boyd, who you know
Speaker 1: may have played his last game for the Bengals in
Speaker 1: a great career, and Browning, Jake Browning came over and
Speaker 1: patted him on the shoulder and made it a point
Speaker 1: to tell the press how important Tyler Boyd was to
Speaker 1: him and to the media. I don't think. I don't.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that probably since the days of Willie Anderson.
Speaker 1: That was great leadership by a guy. And it was
Speaker 1: absolutely what he said was at first of all what
Speaker 1: he said was absolutely true about Tyler, but the fact
Speaker 1: that he would do that, take the time to do it.
Speaker 1: Then he said it again, and he repeated it for
Speaker 1: us in the media because some of us weren't there
Speaker 1: when it happened, but he did it, but he repeated himself,
Speaker 1: and it was a I just thought it was I think,
Speaker 1: other than Joe Wincing when he threw the touchdown pass
Speaker 1: that against Baltimore, the Browning Tyler Boyd wore when I
Speaker 1: think that's take that home.
Speaker 2: That was really good stuff. And I don't remember or
Speaker 2: anything quite like that either. For Jake Browning to interrupt
Speaker 2: a Tyler Boyd session with reporters to basically say hey,
Speaker 2: before he continues, I want to tell you how awesome
Speaker 2: this guy is. That was really cool.
Speaker 1: It was just throwing a Willie Anderson moment when Rudy
Speaker 1: Johnson had a breakout game and this is back in
Speaker 1: I think three maybe, and PJ was saying, Rudy Johnson
Speaker 1: to the interview room. Rudy Johnson in the interview room,
Speaker 1: and Willie Anderson said, wait a minute. He held up
Speaker 1: a finger and said, wait minute, listen to that. Rudy
Speaker 1: Johnson to the interview room. How about that? This is
Speaker 1: a guy that's paid his dues and he's Willie went
Speaker 1: into a thing on Rudy, which was really good.
Speaker 2: My favorite moment. This one's a little bit selfish, but
Speaker 2: it was the San Francisco win and the entire day
Speaker 2: for me. Because the night before the Bearcats played at
Speaker 2: Oklahoma State Stillwater, Oklahoma. I was scheduled to fly the
Speaker 2: next morning from Oklahoma City, which is about an hour away,
Speaker 2: through Denver to get the same Jose for the game.
Speaker 2: There was a snowstorm in Denver. I had to change
Speaker 2: my plans at the last minute fly through Dallas, got
Speaker 2: like two hours sleep. I was totally panicked I was
Speaker 2: going to miss the game and get fired. Thankfully, the
Speaker 2: second arrangement worked out. I got to San Jose hopped
Speaker 2: in an uber, feeling triumphant, and then I think the
Speaker 2: uber driver intentionally left me like miles away because he
Speaker 2: didn't want to deal with game day traffic. So there
Speaker 2: I am with my suitcase and my you know, my backpack,
Speaker 2: miles from the stadium, schlepping through tailgates and stuff to
Speaker 2: get there.
Speaker 1: But I got to the booth about.
Speaker 2: Ten minutes before the start of the pregame show. And
Speaker 2: then it was an awesome day. The weather was spectacular,
Speaker 2: the Bengals were spectacular. Burrow completed almost ninety percent of
Speaker 2: his passes passer rating over one point thirty. Joe Mixon
Speaker 2: had one hundred and ten combined yards, Chase had ten
Speaker 2: catches in one hundred yards. So it's just a tremendous day.
Speaker 2: And thankfully I made it in time. So that was
Speaker 2: my favorite moment of the year.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was that. I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: was that intense. That's ah, they would never fire one
Speaker 1: of the great voices in Bengals history.
Speaker 2: I hope I don't give him reason too. No, that
Speaker 2: was no.
Speaker 1: I think you had a good year to Hoardy, by
Speaker 1: the way. I think it was, and I know because
Speaker 1: I listened to all the why I'm watching the game,
Speaker 1: I listened to the broadcast. It's ah, it gets harder
Speaker 1: and harder to call these games because the flags are
Speaker 1: dropping and uh things are being replayed and it's not
Speaker 1: it's not as easy to uh, not as easy to
Speaker 1: call a game as it was once was with Gil
Speaker 1: Santos and uh the great and the great Uh Vaughan,
Speaker 1: you're your guy in uh Buffy h Van Miller, Van Miller,
Speaker 1: I want to say von Miller, but uh, he's in
Speaker 1: Buffalo too. Yeah. It was a little it was a
Speaker 1: little deep bit easy easier back then, and they were great.
Speaker 1: But it's uh it's hard.
Speaker 2: Now, man, all right, your low point of the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it had to be, uh, I I I think
Speaker 1: it was probably uh it might have been the Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: game here maybe because that seems so winnable. But I
Speaker 1: think it has to go back to the ball. I
Speaker 1: think it just goes back to the Burrough getting hurt.
Speaker 1: I mean, you got it, and I don't know I
Speaker 1: remember that the training camp day. Did he get hurt.
Speaker 1: That was that was I don't think I've ever felt
Speaker 1: that bad in July since I got a somber And
Speaker 1: you know, that wasn't. That wasn't. That wasn't. That wasn't
Speaker 1: a great feeling either. And then and then the Baltimore thing,
Speaker 1: and then of course the ride, you know, the flight home,
Speaker 1: and it's one of those late night primetime games in
Speaker 1: a row you're a zombie, and then you realize Burrows
Speaker 1: out that was you know, I could have I could have.
Speaker 1: I think we all could have done without that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be very specific. It's the same thing. But
Speaker 2: it was seeing the replay of Burrow on the sideline
Speaker 2: trying to throw a pass, just a soft toss to
Speaker 2: test his wrist, and he couldn't even do that. You know,
Speaker 2: he's in excruciating pain because none of us realized when
Speaker 2: he threw the touchdown pass to Mixing that that was
Speaker 2: it because we were watching the ball, Joe makes the catch,
Speaker 2: he goes into the end zone. We're all fired up. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Oburrow's experience this pain. And we later saw that replay
Speaker 2: as well. But when we saw that replay of him
Speaker 2: on the sideline trying to throw and being unable to
Speaker 2: it brought back the words of Jim McKay in Munich.
Speaker 2: Our worst fears have been realized, and not as serious circumstances, obviously,
Speaker 2: But at that point we probably all thought the season
Speaker 2: was over, and thanks to Jake Browning, it wasn't. They
Speaker 2: got to the next to last game of the regular
Speaker 2: season with a chance. Thanks to him and obviously his teammates.
Speaker 1: Four and three. He went four and three. If it
Speaker 1: was the World Series, they wouldn't won it. But no,
Speaker 1: I mean he was, I mean he was. I thought
Speaker 1: he was terrific. He was, you know, even in some
Speaker 1: and all. I thought he was terrific in Kansas City.
Speaker 1: Really he was running and making plays. And you know,
Speaker 1: you gotta remember, it's just not that he came off
Speaker 1: the bench, and he came off the bench in the
Speaker 1: middle of a playoff run where they had a legitimate chance.
Speaker 1: Nobody in Bengal's histories then that when Blake came off
Speaker 1: the bench, they were owing, they were owing seven. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, when Turk came off the bench, it was
Speaker 1: early in the year. You know, this guy I got.
Speaker 1: No Bengals backup quarterback has come in in the playoff
Speaker 1: run and got him there. I guess you could say, uh,
Speaker 1: his fulsome soulmate Virgil Carter. But because Virgil, but because
Speaker 1: because but Virgil really was you know, he and Sam
Speaker 1: Weish were kind of early in the year were alternating
Speaker 1: and then Virgil Virgil get the job. But you know,
Speaker 1: nobody O there. I mean, that's that's that's the thing
Speaker 1: is is the pressure that the pressure endured, and it's
Speaker 1: the it's the great American story. You know, he was
Speaker 1: this far away from maybe being a being an offensive
Speaker 1: assistant at Sacramento State, you know, but he get the
Speaker 1: call here and here he is and.
Speaker 2: None of those other guys had to wait for four
Speaker 2: years to get their chance, which added to the miracle.
Speaker 2: Who is your team? M v P?
Speaker 1: You know people are gonna, you know, they're gonna say,
Speaker 1: you know, in my heart, I want to say mixing
Speaker 1: because you know, he did every I mean, really he was.
Speaker 1: He He caught the ball, he ran the ball, he
Speaker 1: went for one thousand yards. He didn't you know, he
Speaker 1: didn't get a hundred yard game until late. He gets
Speaker 1: criticized because he doesn't have explosive plays, and I understand that,
Speaker 1: but the guy never you know, he never fumbles most
Speaker 1: of the time. He'll get you forty yards. He'll keep
Speaker 1: y on schedule. He makes you know he won the
Speaker 1: he won the Minnesota game. He's he's, he's, he's, he's
Speaker 1: in the backfield. And if I haven't, if i've in
Speaker 1: pace makes that tackle. Seasons, you know that they're done,
Speaker 1: they're out, and he wills himself to stand up, you know,
Speaker 1: and get in there and score. I think he had
Speaker 1: twelve touchdowns.
Speaker 2: You know, one four hundred and ten combined yards rushing
Speaker 2: and receiving in twelve touchdowns. That's the quietest fourteen hundred
Speaker 2: yard twelve touchdown season in history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you know you get but
Speaker 1: then you know my height, says Mixing. But I also
Speaker 1: you know, my eyes also say Chase. You know, JAMAI
Speaker 1: Chase in the guts of that when Browning first, you know,
Speaker 1: when when Joe was just getting into shape, and then
Speaker 1: when Browning came in, Chase was a beast. Remember, and
Speaker 1: then he get hurt. And when he get hurt, things
Speaker 1: kind of felt. Remember they lost they lost their two
Speaker 1: games right when he when he when he get hurt,
Speaker 1: and uh, Kansas City and Pittsburgh. He didn't play in
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and he was he was hurting against Kansas City. Really,
Speaker 1: you know, kudos to him for strapping it up and playing.
Speaker 1: But you know, if he's healthy, you wonder how how
Speaker 1: that was because he I mean, he had he had
Speaker 1: ten I think he had u he had he had
Speaker 1: a five one hundred yard games and one morning ties
Speaker 1: him for the you know, that's a quiet that was
Speaker 1: a quiet five you know, five one hundred yard games too.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, you could probably take your pick
Speaker 1: Jama or Joe, but I you know, I think either
Speaker 1: one will be on it, and we'll throw in.
Speaker 2: Trey Hendrickson on the defensive end, seventeen and a half sacks,
Speaker 2: seventy nine pressures. According to Pro Football Focus, he came
Speaker 2: out as their sixth best pass rusher among edge guys
Speaker 2: this year in the NFL. Miles Garrett, Michael Parsons, Nick Bosa,
Speaker 2: TJ Watt, Aiden Hutchinson, and then Trey Hendrickson, which is
Speaker 2: great company. And I'm not in the building all that
Speaker 2: often in the off season, especially these months, you know,
Speaker 2: when they're not well. I have been the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, thankfully, but February March, when the guys for
Speaker 2: the most part aren't in the building unless they're here rehabbing.
Speaker 2: But last year, any time I came down here, Trey
Speaker 2: Hendrickson was here. I came down here, and it's either
Speaker 2: like a Monday or a Tuesday. It was right after
Speaker 2: Florida Atlantic, his alma mater, had played in the Elite
Speaker 2: eight at Madison Square Garden. He was at the game
Speaker 2: and the next day he's down here working out, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just saw you on TV at Madison
Speaker 2: Square Garden yesterday. So his one track mind obsession with
Speaker 2: being the best pass rusher that he can possibly be
Speaker 2: is truly incredible.
Speaker 1: If his wife's working, he's here and and his wife's
Speaker 1: he is a pharmacist and works, and so he's you know,
Speaker 1: he just buckles it up, comes down here, waits for
Speaker 1: her to get home, leaves, you know. I mean, the
Speaker 1: guys all the guy is all football all the time.
Speaker 1: One of the more interesting guys you'll come across, you know,
Speaker 1: he's uh I remember I talked to him. I did
Speaker 1: a conversation with him, and uh. Sim Hubbard said, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you guys are friends now, right, And Henders he goes.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, I don't know, yeh, I said,
Speaker 1: I said, I think we are, but I think he's
Speaker 1: a little reluctant about it. But no, he's a he's
Speaker 1: a he's he's a very intriguing guy, interesting guy, spark guy,
Speaker 1: reflective and uh, I'm glad we got him, so am I.
Speaker 2: How about your Rookie of the Year?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's gotta be uh Jordan battle I think,
Speaker 1: doesn't it have to be? I think he went from
Speaker 1: got a battlefield promotion from personal protector. He's having a
Speaker 1: pretty good run as a personal protector and an all
Speaker 1: Special Teams every man for Darren Simmons, and then when
Speaker 1: Lou decided to put him in the stating lineup, I
Speaker 1: thought he was really got better as he went. I
Speaker 1: think he kind of caught DJ Turner. I think DJ Turner,
Speaker 1: I think had a really good, you know, had a
Speaker 1: really good start to what he was doing. I think
Speaker 1: he might have hit a little bit of a wall,
Speaker 1: but I think DJ Turner had a very good rookie
Speaker 1: year too, when you take the big picture of it.
Speaker 1: I think he struggled a little bit at the at
Speaker 1: the end. But I think he's going to be. I
Speaker 1: think Turner's going to be a terrific player. I think
Speaker 1: he's going to be a very good corner in the league.
Speaker 1: And I think, like I said, I think Battle can
Speaker 1: give them a little bit of von Bellion knowledge and
Speaker 1: stability back there. You know, the more experience he gets,
Speaker 1: I think he's a very mature, very mature playoff.
Speaker 2: I'm with you on Jordan Battle, so his pro football focus.
Speaker 2: Among the Bengals defensive players who had a legitimate number
Speaker 2: of snaps this year, he graded out number one higher
Speaker 2: than Trey, higher than DJ Reider, higher than Mike Hilton.
Speaker 2: We all had very good years. That's pretty incredible. I
Speaker 2: know PFF isn't the be all end all, but it
Speaker 2: certainly looks like the Bengals struck at Rich Considering he
Speaker 2: was a late third round pick ninety fifth overall. I
Speaker 2: think they thought of him more like an early second
Speaker 2: round kind of guy, and that's the way he played
Speaker 2: as a rookie. I'll throw in honorable mention honors to
Speaker 2: andre Yosi Vash. The overall numbers aren't great, but he
Speaker 2: did have four touchdown catches for an IVY League guy
Speaker 2: who never took part in spring football because he was
Speaker 2: working on the pole, vault and the shot put. Troy
Speaker 2: Walters is a tremendous wide receivers coach. I think, with
Speaker 2: his training, andre Yosi Vash is going to turn out
Speaker 2: to be a very productive NFL player.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think he's more than a fourth receiver. I
Speaker 1: really do. I think he could be. I don't know
Speaker 1: what kind of a steady diet of a third guy,
Speaker 1: but I think he can be a very I think
Speaker 1: he can really contribute. I think he can catch, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty forty balls a year, I would think, particularly in
Speaker 1: a red I think he's a weapon. I think also too,
Speaker 1: I think I think Miles Murphy kind of kind of
Speaker 1: for rookies, kind of snuck in there at the end,
Speaker 1: and he seemed to be improving as he went, which
Speaker 1: I think, which I think is encouraging obviously, because you know,
Speaker 1: I think he was had trouble I think getting into
Speaker 1: a rhythm early. But he's a rookie. He's just he's
Speaker 1: just learned, and I think he the more snaps you got,
Speaker 1: I think the better he got. And I think that's
Speaker 1: a good sign too.
Speaker 2: All right, let's do a couple of looking ahead topics.
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow to the news conference this week and May
Speaker 2: headlines with this statement, I expect T to be back.
Speaker 2: Is Joe Burrow right?
Speaker 1: He always is right? I mean, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: I I that's a tough one. That's a tough call there.
Speaker 1: I know they want Higgins badly. I also know the
Speaker 1: numbers are daunting when you're flowing jamat Chase and Burrows.
Speaker 1: What Chase is going to get and what Burrow already
Speaker 1: is getting. Yeah, I think you know, but I you know,
Speaker 1: they also there's the option of the franchise tag. You
Speaker 1: have to look at that. But like I said, Joe
Speaker 1: seems pretty confident. I I you know, uh, I think
Speaker 1: T is. I think T likes it here. I think
Speaker 1: he wants to stay here. I I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I know that some might say, well, I want to
Speaker 1: get out from Chase's shadows. Some might say that, But
Speaker 1: I don't get that. I don't get that vibe from T.
Speaker 1: I think he knows what he's got in Burrow. Burrow
Speaker 1: and he came in together. I think there's a certain
Speaker 1: chemistry there, a certain bond. I think he knows that
Speaker 1: Jam makes him better, you know, and that he makes
Speaker 1: Jama better. So I don't know. I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll see. Do they end up using the tag? Who knows.
Speaker 1: But people seem to be confident that we'll be back.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I got to take Burrow at
Speaker 1: his word. He's certainly I know that. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's coming back, but I certainly know this. He's
Speaker 1: been a huge piece of what has gone on here.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is a you know, like I keep saying, man,
Speaker 1: when he goes up for a ball that's like a
Speaker 1: Bill Russell Game seven rebound. He's coming down with it,
Speaker 1: you know, about as well as anybody's I've seen. And so,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just as I'm always amazed. There's two
Speaker 1: guys I'm always amazed at when I look at when
Speaker 1: I'm around them all the time, but I'm always stunned
Speaker 1: when I see them up close. Burrow he's always taller
Speaker 1: than I think he is. And then t is just
Speaker 1: a massive guy. And then you look at you turn
Speaker 1: it and then you watch what he does on the
Speaker 1: tape and wow, you know, he is just's he's quite
Speaker 1: a player.
Speaker 2: He's a monster. Joe said what he said. Then Zach
Speaker 2: Taylor said it's hard to imagine life without Tea. I
Speaker 2: don't think they're going to have to imagine it this year.
Speaker 2: I do think the franchise tag seems most likely. He
Speaker 2: would be twenty one point seven mil, which is obviously
Speaker 2: a lot of money, but the Burrow contract doesn't really
Speaker 2: hurt until the following year. It's structured in such a
Speaker 2: way that this coming year they'll still have some maneuverability.
Speaker 2: I think they can fit that in. Jamar Chase is
Speaker 2: probably going to be looking at more like thirty million
Speaker 2: dollars a year, which is incredible for a wide receiver.
Speaker 2: But if anybody deserves it, he does. I think they
Speaker 2: keep the band together as long as they can under
Speaker 2: the cap, and to me, that feels like a franchise
Speaker 2: tag for Tea. But we'll see. They've got until March
Speaker 2: fifth to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Man, does Boyd come back to the Higgins comes back?
Speaker 1: Does Tyler come back?
Speaker 2: Well, that's our next topic. All right, here we go.
Speaker 2: T is not the only prominent free agent. You also
Speaker 2: have alphabetically Chidabeo, Wouje, Tyler, Boyd, DJ Reader, Jonah Williams.
Speaker 2: There are others, but we'll concentrate on those four rate
Speaker 2: in order of likelihood, which guy will be back Cheetoh, Tyler, DJ, Jonah.
Speaker 1: That's a tough one night, probably, I mean DJ, maybe
Speaker 1: because I don't know what his injury will do to
Speaker 1: his bracket value or how other teams view him. I
Speaker 1: you know, um selfishly, you'd love to have DJ back.
Speaker 1: You talked to him for you know, one of your
Speaker 1: great podcast, great interview with him about and we've talked
Speaker 1: to people ad nauseum here about what he means to
Speaker 1: his team. There's no question about it. Coaches, players, you know,
Speaker 1: the outpouring when he get hurt. I mean the guy
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean look like I mean, his walker
Speaker 1: looked like a funeral home with all the you know,
Speaker 1: balloons and the gifts and whatever. I know, the social
Speaker 1: media content team was they had some nice cards and
Speaker 1: stuff for him because he's been so helpful. So, I
Speaker 1: you know, how does that play into what? You know?
Speaker 1: A right tackle trying to keep Jonan Williams around is
Speaker 1: a right tackle who proved he can play right tackle.
Speaker 1: He can also play left tackle. Had a pretty good year.
Speaker 1: He's on the top one hundred free agent lists. He
Speaker 1: might be tough to to bring back when you're playing,
Speaker 1: you know, or when you're playing the let when you're
Speaker 1: paying the left tackle as much as you and I,
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to pay corners. You got a
Speaker 1: woozy a up. But O Cheeto is is is Uh,
Speaker 1: he's coming off his own injuries, you know, so does
Speaker 1: that what? How are other teams going to view him?
Speaker 1: That's a question. But I just think it's it's tough
Speaker 1: to keep these guys. I mean, it's just it's hard
Speaker 1: to Uh, it's hard to imagine life without them. But
Speaker 1: that is life, you know, with us, what happens when
Speaker 1: you do well and you know all these good players
Speaker 1: and you uh, you know you just talked about te
Speaker 1: Chase and Burrow, right, well, where do those other I mean,
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to fit in any of
Speaker 1: those guys.
Speaker 2: Right here is my order of likelihood. Most likely DJ Reader.
Speaker 2: It's really unfortunate, but I do agree that the injury
Speaker 2: made it more likely he turns thirty over the summer.
Speaker 2: The Bengals are historically hesitant to give long term deals
Speaker 2: to guys in their thirties, and that's probably smart, but
Speaker 2: somebody would have somebody out there would have given DJ
Speaker 2: Reader like a four year deal or something like that,
Speaker 2: and he's a great player. I understand why another team
Speaker 2: might have done that. With the injury, that becomes less likely.
Speaker 2: He's probably looking at a shorter deal with incentives and
Speaker 2: all things being equal, I think the Bengals become one
Speaker 2: of the better options for DJ reader. He likes it here.
Speaker 2: He knows he'd have a chance to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: They've already paid him fifty three million bucks, so there's
Speaker 2: some loyalty there. So again I would put him at
Speaker 2: the top of the list for most likely. I guess
Speaker 2: number two I would go Boyd. Having said that, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's likely. We saw on Monday, the day
Speaker 2: after the final game of the year, he exchanged signed
Speaker 2: jerseys with Chase and Higgins. It was kind of a
Speaker 2: sad moment to see that happening. And even when Joe
Speaker 2: Burrow was asked about him, he didn't say I expect
Speaker 2: Boyd back, you know, he kind of spoke about Boyd
Speaker 2: for all he's met with kind of a tone that
Speaker 2: he expe to be gone. Now. Maybe the market isn't
Speaker 2: as good for a nine year vet who's going to
Speaker 2: be thirty next year as he hopes and that brings
Speaker 2: him back to Cincinnati. Obviously, if the Bengals could keep
Speaker 2: him at a reasonable price, I'm sure they would love
Speaker 2: to have them. So I'll put him number two on
Speaker 2: the list. But again, I don't think it's especially likely
Speaker 2: in a Wouoja's case because of the injury and he
Speaker 2: didn't have a great year this year. He's probably looking
Speaker 2: at something of a prove it type deal for a
Speaker 2: year or two. I think under those circumstances, he's going
Speaker 2: to want to try to prove it at a place
Speaker 2: where he's pretty much guaranteed to start, and I don't
Speaker 2: think that'll be here. I think they're probably looking at
Speaker 2: Cam Taylor, Britt and DJ Turner as the starting outside corners.
Speaker 2: They'd love to have Cheetoh as a third guy. You
Speaker 2: need more than two. But from his perspective, if it's
Speaker 2: going to be a prove it contract, he's probably going
Speaker 2: to want to try to prove it where they say, oh,
Speaker 2: you are definitely going to be one of our starters.
Speaker 2: And then I would put Jonah in the fourth spot
Speaker 2: because I think he's positioned himself to be one of
Speaker 2: the top free agent tackles available. Pro Football Focus graded
Speaker 2: him number sixty three out of eighty nine, which had
Speaker 2: enough snaps to qualify, which you know doesn't sound very good,
Speaker 2: but I thought he was very solid this year. I
Speaker 2: think you can win with Jonah Williams at either left
Speaker 2: tackle or right tackle. The Bengals have correct but Pro
Speaker 2: Football Focus also does these contract you know, predictions or whatever,
Speaker 2: what they think he's likely to get. They project four years,
Speaker 2: sixty four mil. That's what the Bengals are paying Orlando
Speaker 2: Brown Junior, a four time Pro Bowler who graded out
Speaker 2: much better according to PFF than Jonah did this year.
Speaker 2: So if that's the case, I think he's likely to
Speaker 2: get that that kind of deal somewhere else in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't. I mean, I don't think he can
Speaker 1: pay two tackle You can't pay two tackles at particularly
Speaker 1: what your wide receivers are.
Speaker 2: Right on this organization, I don't think he can with
Speaker 2: the likelihood that you're going to try to get a
Speaker 2: long term deal done with one of the highest paid
Speaker 2: wide receivers in the game. What is their number one
Speaker 2: priority in the off season?
Speaker 1: Great question. I guess if we're talking players, are we
Speaker 1: talking players or if we're talking uh fixes.
Speaker 2: Open ended question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I probably I think get the defense fixed
Speaker 1: and they have to figure out if that's personnel or scheme. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I think beyond that, I think it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think they got to shore up their
Speaker 1: corner you know, their cornerback depth. I think probably they
Speaker 1: could attack They got to attack their defensive line depth
Speaker 1: a little bit. I mean, you know, we're talking about
Speaker 1: dj H they don't have they don't have them on
Speaker 1: the contract, so they have to I think they have
Speaker 1: to attack that, uh, you know, some inside people and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think, uh, you might have to tackle
Speaker 1: the right time. You know, where do you get your
Speaker 1: right tackle? You know, we've just said that we thought
Speaker 1: we don't think Jonas coming back, so you know, historically
Speaker 1: you got to go get that guy early, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think probably if you're looking at positions, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, you're probably looking corner depth, nose tackle, three
Speaker 1: technique depth from the probably tackle.
Speaker 2: The number one off season priority is Wristwatch Joe Burrow's wrist.
Speaker 2: They've got to make sure that they do everything right
Speaker 2: in terms of getting him healthy and keeping him healthy
Speaker 2: until the start of the season. Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 2: If he was able to not only recover from risk surgery,
Speaker 2: but go through a normal training camp and be able
Speaker 2: to play in the opener without having.
Speaker 1: A house arrested.
Speaker 2: But you know, a second off season priority, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: is something that you brought up when you spoke with
Speaker 2: Zach Taylor and one of your conversations that you had
Speaker 2: in megals dot com, and that is getting off to
Speaker 2: a better start. It's the one thing that has been
Speaker 2: pretty much lousy in his five year tenure, with the
Speaker 2: exception of the Super Bowl year. The first few weeks
Speaker 2: of the season. I went to his first year, I
Speaker 2: went to his second year, one in one his third year,
Speaker 2: and three in one that year that was the year
Speaker 2: they went to the Super Bowl. Oh into a year
Speaker 2: four they overcame it got to the AFC Championship Game.
Speaker 2: Oh into this year. That's one and nine in the
Speaker 2: first two weeks of a five year stretch. And I
Speaker 2: was happy to hear him say when you talk to
Speaker 2: him about it, that they do need to really look
Speaker 2: hard at what they've done and try to determine what
Speaker 2: they can change to get off to a faster start.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a balance, and so I get back
Speaker 1: to what we're saying, a balance. I mean, because he's
Speaker 1: very Zach is very aware, and I agree with him
Speaker 1: on this, because the season is so long and you
Speaker 1: know you've got it, you can't you can't, you can't
Speaker 1: run these guys had in the spring and in training
Speaker 1: camp can't do it.
Speaker 2: They don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: For one thing, you know, it's an it's the the
Speaker 1: era of the era of the haid nosed. You know,
Speaker 1: training camps is and and regimens is over because it's
Speaker 1: a and I think for a variety of reasons. Main
Speaker 1: thing is just too damn long to keep pounding these guys.
Speaker 1: So he's gotta but you also have to be ready.
Speaker 1: Right now, I would say it, there's a big cave
Speaker 1: yeat with what what is that one? What did they
Speaker 1: have that one year? In twenty twenty one, they had
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow who actually went through he didn't go through
Speaker 1: all of training camp because he was coming back from
Speaker 1: a rehab, but he went through most of it, right
Speaker 1: and they were three and one. So if I'm Zach Taylor,
Speaker 1: you gotta, you know, you got to say, you know,
Speaker 1: you got to balance it. They've been very good in
Speaker 1: November December right now, they ran into obviously they ran
Speaker 1: into problems this year, but they didn't have Burrow. But
Speaker 1: when they've had Borrow, they've been you know, I think
Speaker 1: before this November stretch they were like fourteen and they
Speaker 1: were like thirteen and four in November and December and
Speaker 1: January games, which says they're doing something right in getting
Speaker 1: ready for it. So you gotta do you panic and say,
Speaker 1: you know, do you panic can say you can change
Speaker 1: it up? Or do you step back and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we didn't have Burrow, we do have to do a
Speaker 1: few things differently, and they will and it's built in
Speaker 1: because it's not like the previous two years where they
Speaker 1: were so deep into February. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: Zach's Zach and Joey Bose his strength coach, they got
Speaker 1: a real good handle on this, on this stuff, and
Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident that they'll they'll they'll figure out what
Speaker 1: they're what they're doing. And the big thing to me is,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you keep Borrow healthy? What do
Speaker 1: you do? Do you give them maybe do you give
Speaker 1: them days off in training camp? I mean, what do
Speaker 1: you you know, what do you do? Because I'm all
Speaker 1: in Forze, you got to get to the gate. Marvin
Speaker 1: Lewis was good at getting these guys to the gate too,
Speaker 1: even though he you know, if you compare the training
Speaker 1: camps and Pe like the Marines, and you know, but
Speaker 1: it's but it's a different era and it's a different game.
Speaker 1: But both Zach and Barber we're very good at getting
Speaker 1: their guys to the gate in their era of football.
Speaker 1: They both knew it was important, and so I just
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's fascinating to look at to
Speaker 1: look at it because I think Zach's got a really
Speaker 1: good grip on it. I think his record in the
Speaker 1: big games shows that proves that that he's getting them
Speaker 1: ready for the big ones. And you can argue, look,
Speaker 1: they had they were good enough in November December. This time,
Speaker 1: they didn't win enough games, but they had enough people
Speaker 1: with their backup quarterback to almost make it.
Speaker 2: I think all of that is true. And I am
Speaker 2: certainly not calling for the return of the Forest Greg era.
Speaker 1: In That's what I told them. I said, I said, look,
Speaker 1: I'm not looking you to go with double sessions here
Speaker 1: in morning and afternoon.
Speaker 2: A goal line drill on the first day of training, camp.
Speaker 2: But I do think they've got to do something differently,
Speaker 2: and I don't even really specifically have an answer for
Speaker 2: what that something is. But there are a lot of
Speaker 2: smart people here the coaching staff, Duke Tobin, Mike Brown's
Speaker 2: been in pro football for sixty plus years. They've got
Speaker 2: to have a meeting of the minds to say, all right,
Speaker 2: maybe we need to do this a little differently, and
Speaker 2: this a little differently so that we can avoid losses
Speaker 2: that are just as costly in September as they are
Speaker 2: in October, November, December. At the end, it's how many
Speaker 2: win and how many you lose, And if you're constantly
Speaker 2: starting zero to two, you put yourself off in a
Speaker 2: hole that yeah, maybe you recover and make it to
Speaker 2: the playoffs. But maybe that's the difference between being the
Speaker 2: number one seed and having a couple of home games
Speaker 2: as your path to go to New Orleans and the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl next year.
Speaker 1: The guy Zach's philosophy that is that probably mirrors more
Speaker 1: than anybody's, probably Paul Brown's. Paul Brown was was kind
Speaker 1: of at the vanguard of this. He was seen as
Speaker 1: as different because he kept he kept it light, he
Speaker 1: kept it brisk, he kept it short. He didn't want
Speaker 1: to get his guys beat up. And it's really kind
Speaker 1: of funny how it's kind of come full circle. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know with what Zach is doing. So I think, uh,
Speaker 1: Zach's kind of get history on his side because Pebe
Speaker 1: for the most part had some pretty good teams. People
Speaker 1: forget his last team he had here win eleven and three,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh so I I uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a famous story of uh the uh when Kenny Anderson.
Speaker 1: This is back in a whole different time of football,
Speaker 1: when the starters played every preseason game, you know. But
Speaker 1: even that then in seventy eight, I know, there was
Speaker 1: some hope. And when they went to the at halftime
Speaker 1: at the last preseason game, boy, I hope he maybe
Speaker 1: sits Kenny, you know, and for the second half. And
Speaker 1: Kenny came out and played the first series and broke
Speaker 1: his hand on a helmet and the season was lost. So,
Speaker 1: like I say, Zach's got a Zach. Zach and PB
Speaker 1: are on the same page there all, right.
Speaker 2: Final topic, and this is one where it's great to
Speaker 2: have you on as a guest. The possibility of Willie
Speaker 2: Anderson being selected for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: You've got a meeting coming up soon. What's the next step.
Speaker 1: I wish he just had a better presenter, he'd have
Speaker 1: a better shot. No, I think his chances get better
Speaker 1: every year. I think he's an attractive candidate. I've heard
Speaker 1: that from a lot of This is his third trip
Speaker 1: to the finals, and I think Willie just more and
Speaker 1: more that we present his case. It just grows on people.
Speaker 1: You know, it's an indisputable case, you know, hope going
Speaker 1: in there. I'm with some pro football focus, not only
Speaker 1: pro football focused stats, but Mike Giddings, an old school
Speaker 1: pro scout who many teams, including the Bengals use so
Speaker 1: new school, old school stats, quotes from people like Bill
Speaker 1: cow and Ozzie Newsome, teams that had to play him
Speaker 1: twice a year in the division. Willie's case makes itself,
Speaker 1: you know, so, and I think it's growing on people. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I think it takes time. For Tony Boselli was in
Speaker 1: front of the committee six times, so you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's we'll see what happens. I you know, I
Speaker 1: think you know, there's no it's also probably you know,
Speaker 1: not only is it. You know, there's only two Bengals
Speaker 1: in the Hall, but there's only I don't think there's
Speaker 1: been a right tackle elected to the Hall in about
Speaker 1: twenty years so, and I think that's part of the
Speaker 1: agumen is look the left, you know, the great pass
Speaker 1: rusher are now on either side of the ball. If
Speaker 1: you look at Willy, at one time or another played
Speaker 1: ten of the top twelve sackers, you know, and at
Speaker 1: one time or the other. Now, as Willy evolved and
Speaker 1: the game evolved, a lot of guys switch sides. But
Speaker 1: a lot of guys who would have been you know,
Speaker 1: the athleticism has moved. You didn't have just one athletic
Speaker 1: guy rushing the batch. You had two three and they
Speaker 1: were over both tackles. So that's part of it. And
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's that's that's something that's
Speaker 1: beginning to take hold. Yeah, I mean right tackles or
Speaker 1: tackles too.
Speaker 2: How sophisticated are these presentations? Is there video? Do you
Speaker 2: have a like a folder, you know, glossy pictures? How
Speaker 2: is that done?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just there's no video. It's I'll have a
Speaker 1: brochure that I'll hand out to the folks, but it's
Speaker 1: basically you know, I'll speak for five minutes and that
Speaker 1: a limit. Yeah, it's a five minute limit. And then
Speaker 1: you'll you know, and then you know, the others will
Speaker 1: speak for him, others on the committee. He will be discussed,
Speaker 1: he'll be debated. Then with the other fourteen modern era candidates.
Speaker 1: Each guy is voted on. Each guy has to get
Speaker 1: eighty percent of the vote. So we'll at the end
Speaker 1: if he makes it to the if he makes it
Speaker 1: to the end. So it's uh, you know, it gets
Speaker 1: it goes from a cut, it gets cut from fifteen
Speaker 1: to ten and then to five. So it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: always a This is the first time we've met. It's
Speaker 1: the first time we've met in persons since twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: so no since twenty twenty. It's the first time since
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, so because we met before the pandemic. But
Speaker 1: so it'll be it'll be Uh, it's always interesting. It's
Speaker 1: a draining day. It's important. It's one of the you know,
Speaker 1: it's a big responsibility to be entrusted with. It's important.
Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, it's uh, you know, they say
Speaker 1: it can change people's lives, so you take that responsibility,
Speaker 1: you know, take that it's ability.
Speaker 2: Seriously, Willie's case is in great hands. He helped Ken
Speaker 2: Riley make it to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: I know that Willy's going to have his case presented
Speaker 2: beautifully next week. And best of luck and helping to
Speaker 2: convince that crew that he is worthy of inclusion in
Speaker 2: the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: It's very kind of you to say. I told Willie today,
Speaker 1: I said, it's going to be like when you met
Speaker 1: with brat Kowski and he told you the Tuesday before
Speaker 1: you played Peppers, you're gonna have to take her more
Speaker 1: on one And Willie looked at eight plays on the
Speaker 1: film and said, don't worry, bratt I got it. So
Speaker 1: that's what I told Willie. That's what I told Willie today.
Speaker 2: Well, you're right, you do have it. You're going to
Speaker 2: be great. Best of luck with that, and thanks so
Speaker 2: much for your time. It's always pleasure, Hordy.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Best New Year to you and the family.
Speaker 1: I have to say hello to my family, Carrie Miller,
Speaker 1: Carrie hops and Miller your biggest fan with Freddie franchise
Speaker 1: and Danny Miller, her husband. They love the podcast. Hi guys,
Speaker 1: how you.
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