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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode forty eight. Today we

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Speaker 1: are mostly going to be talking about the topic of guilt.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, that seems to be a hot topic

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Speaker 1: that comes up again and again. And we got a

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Speaker 1: fascinating listener question that got us thinking about this topic.

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Speaker 1: But first, so little Genevieve is about seven months old

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Speaker 1: as this episode is airing Sarah's new baby. How about

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Speaker 1: an update on the baby situation? Sarah, Yeah, she's actually well.

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Speaker 1: As we're recording this, she's just turning six months, So

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Speaker 1: every month sounds so much older than the last at

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Speaker 1: this point. It's amazing. Yeah, since you've all been involved

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Speaker 1: in the journey from her birth. I will update everyone.

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Speaker 1: Yes not pre birth. Yes she is still not sleeping

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Speaker 1: through the night, but it's definitely on a trajectory of improvement,

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Speaker 1: Like she'll wake up one to two times. Last night,

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Speaker 1: she actually went to bed at six forty five, like

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Speaker 1: she was done, and I feel like my babies have

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Speaker 1: done that. They sort of get right around the seven

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Speaker 1: hour or even a little bit before. And then she

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Speaker 1: woke up to eat at like twelve thirty and then

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Speaker 1: five am, and I get up at five, which meant

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Speaker 1: that I really only was interrupted once and I went

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Speaker 1: to bed at nine, so I got a lot of sleep.

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Speaker 1: So that part is improving. Because back in the day,

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Speaker 1: during her like hungrier periods, she'd be up like ten

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Speaker 1: and then twelve thirty and then like three. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: it was bad, but it's much better now. I would

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Speaker 1: say it's a very sustainable rhythm from breastfeeding standpoint, because

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Speaker 1: that eating at night is enough I think to keep

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Speaker 1: my supply up. But it's enough so I don't have

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Speaker 1: to like pressure myself to pump eight million ounces. And

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Speaker 1: you guys know, I I've been very stressed about that

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Speaker 1: side of things, not for any logical reason. I've done

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Speaker 1: more analysis. I really think it's because I would like

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Speaker 1: to have an fairly extended, not extended extended like five

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Speaker 1: years old, but like to twelve months or thirteen months

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Speaker 1: breastfeeding relationship. I missed having that with Cameron, and I

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Speaker 1: knew that if I wasn't able to keep up with

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Speaker 1: the pumping that it would kind of be similar to

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Speaker 1: my second which is not the end of the world,

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Speaker 1: but again, my last baby kind of wanted it to work.

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Speaker 1: So I decided I'd be okay with whatever outcome. I'd

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Speaker 1: put myself into it, and it's it's actually been better

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Speaker 1: than with Cameron. I think I kind of trained my

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Speaker 1: nanny to give a little bit less milk this time

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Speaker 1: around during the day, knowing that that might translate into

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Speaker 1: a little bit more waking up overnight. And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use numbers here because no one ever does, and

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Speaker 1: I think people assume that they have to pump like

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Speaker 1: twenty ounces in a day for this to work. But

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Speaker 1: I really only come yeah, between nine and eleven ounces

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Speaker 1: each day during my work day, which is from seven

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Speaker 1: forty five. I leave the house and I get home

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Speaker 1: at six, and the rest of the time she breastfeeds

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Speaker 1: week in the morning and then at night and overnight,

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Speaker 1: and she is thriving, you guys, I mean the thighs

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Speaker 1: do not lie like she is getting She is getting plenty.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that if I could have done

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Speaker 1: one thing different with Cameron, she was r Nannie was

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Speaker 1: maybe giving a little more milk to the point where

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Speaker 1: he was more satisfied. So he slept, but then I slept,

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Speaker 1: So again that does kind of create the slippery slope

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Speaker 1: where then you're making less and they're eating more and

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Speaker 1: they're used to more. And again that worked out completely fine.

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Speaker 1: He is healthy, but I missed enjoying that end of

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Speaker 1: our you know, relationship, But I think that was partly

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Speaker 1: why so this time it's going better. How many bottles

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Speaker 1: does she give during the day then, like, yeah, bottles

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Speaker 1: goes usually two to three bottles, and sometimes if she

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Speaker 1: wants the bottle lasts a long time, she'll give like

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Speaker 1: four and a half ounces, but other times she'll ge

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Speaker 1: of like three ounces. And since we hit about five months,

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Speaker 1: we've been doing some solids, you know, not huge amounts

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Speaker 1: of solids, but I guess that's been kind of helping

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Speaker 1: to extend a little bit more, and I think Genevieve

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Speaker 1: the baby is just getting a little bit. I think

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Speaker 1: like she knows when I get home that she's gonna

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Speaker 1: like chow. You know, she kind of she's because she's

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Speaker 1: really not fussy during the day, so it's not like

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Speaker 1: she's unhappy or starving at all. But somehow they make

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Speaker 1: the nine to eleven ounces stretch and yeah, it's been working.

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Speaker 1: So now that leaves me at the dilemma because I

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Speaker 1: was super excited to My original goal was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll suffer until six months and then I'm gonna quit pumping,

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Speaker 1: because at that time I was so stressed out from

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Speaker 1: it that it was sort of ruining my life. But

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Speaker 1: now it's really not and I'm finding breastfeeding like much

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Speaker 1: more efficient. She's so fast, Like when we're on the

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Speaker 1: goal on the weekend, she just kind of pops on,

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Speaker 1: pops off. And we have that trip that we're taking

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Speaker 1: in August, so I'm thinking that maybe I will try

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Speaker 1: to reset my goal to keep pumping into the any

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Speaker 1: of August, go on the trip, and then by that

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Speaker 1: point she'll be eight and a half months and I

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Speaker 1: can try to transition to like a morning and night

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Speaker 1: feeding schedule and less pumping, which I did successfully do

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Speaker 1: an Anabel around that age, and then we had exactly

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Speaker 1: what I wanted, which was that nice kind of morning

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Speaker 1: and evening breastfeeding relationship that lasted. You know, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of as long as I wanted it to. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's where we are. And I'm definitely as long

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Speaker 1: if you want it to. What are you in prison?

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Speaker 1: Are you thinking? Like, like not no, because I think

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Speaker 1: I'd like to like go away with josh by by

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Speaker 1: the new year, which she'll be thirteen months at that point,

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Speaker 1: and that would probably be a natural end if we

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Speaker 1: took a trip and you know, she'll just have to

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Speaker 1: learn to get a bottle instead a night during that time.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I was thinking more like twelve thirteen months. Okay,

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Speaker 1: yeah that makes sense. Yeah, well there, so it's not

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Speaker 1: as bad as it was. It's not as bad as

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Speaker 1: it was, and it was really bad. So if anybody

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Speaker 1: just wants to email me invent, I'm happy to accept

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Speaker 1: it because I will say, oh my god, I know.

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Speaker 1: And it helped me to have some people that I

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Speaker 1: kind of bounced off my stress with. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what will happen about it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was blogging about it. Oh my god, people weighed in

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Speaker 1: and droves, which was amazing. So yeah, having that community

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Speaker 1: to kind of to go through it with me was

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Speaker 1: was really great. And who knows, you know, maybe next

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Speaker 1: week it all fall apart, but I guess I'm just

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty satisfied. Whatever happens at this point cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's the hard thing with it, Like breastfeeding is

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Speaker 1: one thing, the pumping is in something entirely different, and

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Speaker 1: you know, breastfeeding a baby is generally relatively pleasant. Pumping

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Speaker 1: is not in any way, shape or form, and so

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Speaker 1: that adds the stress of that. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I remember reading or hearing was that you know, that

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Speaker 1: is like twenty four ounces in a day, I guess

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Speaker 1: is roughly what a baby of certain size is consuming.

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Speaker 1: And so that actually makes total sense. You think of

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Speaker 1: an ounce an hour, yes, if I get hours, yep,

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Speaker 1: you're doing ten ounces at work. So yeah, that makes

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Speaker 1: total sense for what the actual supply would be. That

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Speaker 1: the math comes out exactly right, and I think in

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Speaker 1: order to some people have a bit of an oversupply,

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Speaker 1: so they make or at least they make more than

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Speaker 1: that during the day, but then their baby sleeps all night.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I don't have that kind of a situation.

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Speaker 1: But again, right now we're in a place that's nice

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Speaker 1: and comfortable, sustainable, So yeah, and I do think there

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Speaker 1: is this myth of like you need to provide like

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Speaker 1: six six ounce bottles for your baby at daycare, and

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Speaker 1: if that's true, then the daycare is probably yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you know, it's saying as something that people get tripped

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Speaker 1: up onto, and it's one of the reasons to consider.

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Speaker 1: There are many reasons to choose daycare or choose nanny options,

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Speaker 1: but one caregiver who you employ is more likely to

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Speaker 1: stick with your instructions for this and not to have

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Speaker 1: quite the same thing going on with you know, at daycare,

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Speaker 1: they have three infants they need to tend to per caregiver,

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Speaker 1: and so it's just a different tolerance for for dealing

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Speaker 1: with a baby who who isn't really hungry but could

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Speaker 1: be made happier with more food. And yes, yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously you want to give a hungry baby what here

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Speaker 1: she wants, but but there's reasons that babies fuss that

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Speaker 1: they aren't hungry. If you walked around with them for

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Speaker 1: a while they'd stop crying. But it's also sometimes easier

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Speaker 1: to just put a bottle in their mouth, which I

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Speaker 1: totally get. But yeah, especially like five babies, yeah babies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's something something to think about with with that situation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So obviously you don't have a pumping update, not for

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Speaker 1: a while, although I will say humorously, we found the

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Speaker 1: last bags of milk and the freezer like long pass

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Speaker 1: you know, the point of there being a nursing baby

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Speaker 1: in the past, And I look at it like, gosh,

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Speaker 1: I feel really bad at throwing this stuff away, But

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Speaker 1: on the other you have to. I have to. I've

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Speaker 1: like been sitting there for a year since I last

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Speaker 1: pump this stuff. It's awesome. Yeah. No, you feed the

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Speaker 1: fruiser you get you instead of giving birth to a baby,

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Speaker 1: you give birth to a book this year. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: any updates on how that is? And heard getting on

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Speaker 1: one of the first book, Yeah, written without giving birth

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Speaker 1: to a baby at the same time, So that was

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Speaker 1: a nice little transition. Yeah. No, Off the Clock came

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Speaker 1: out May twenty nine. We are recording this on June.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, what is it even? June seventh? Losing track

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Speaker 1: of the days and yeah, no, So it's been fun

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Speaker 1: to one of the best parts of having a book

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Speaker 1: come out as you wind up doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: the networking that I know I should be doing anyway,

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Speaker 1: reaching out to old friends and people that I've interviewed

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Speaker 1: in the past who've interviewed me, and seeing what's up

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Speaker 1: in their lives, and I should be doing that anyway,

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Speaker 1: and I just don't. And then I realized, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I have a book coming out. I need to reach

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Speaker 1: back out to everyone to send them copies. And I do,

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Speaker 1: and then I have all these great conversations and I

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Speaker 1: was wonderful. So it's a reminder that I need to

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Speaker 1: do that when I don't have a book coming out.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like putting on my calendar in the fall,

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Speaker 1: like reach out to everyone I know in October. Although

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Speaker 1: I always laugh at that because I know there are

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Speaker 1: some people who have like as they get like some

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Speaker 1: note like at the beginning of every quarter to reach

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Speaker 1: out to a certain number of people, and so you

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Speaker 1: would definably get like emails from them seeing how life

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Speaker 1: is going on, Like October first January, Oh interesting, you

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Speaker 1: should probably pick like October ninth, but like a random day.

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Speaker 1: I'm still happy to hear from them. I just find

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Speaker 1: it funny. That's like, very clear that you remembered I

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Speaker 1: existed because your calendar alert told you I existed, which

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Speaker 1: again I'm glad that you remember I exist, but it

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Speaker 1: is one of those funny things. So yeah, I've been

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Speaker 1: having fun. I've been doing, oddly enough, some more international media.

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Speaker 1: I have my UK launch of Off the Clock is

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Speaker 1: early August, so if we have UK or Australian listeners,

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Speaker 1: that's when it'll be available there. I've been setting up

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Speaker 1: some interviews. I was actually on BBC Scotland this morning

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Speaker 1: talking about the topic. We're spending the rest of our

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Speaker 1: episode talking about mom gil To. Oddly enough, don't know

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Speaker 1: why I've become an interesting So someone was excited about

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Speaker 1: your book and in Scotland, but then felt like that

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Speaker 1: was the message they wanted you to s how they

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Speaker 1: mustaged something. I know how she does it one of

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Speaker 1: my previous books, and that's how they originally found me.

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Speaker 1: So I was on BBC. I'm set up to take

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Speaker 1: something for the Australian Today Show in a couple of

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Speaker 1: days Off the Clock, So yeah, you know, fun stuff

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Speaker 1: you should put clips of those on your blog because

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Speaker 1: I would want to see the Australian Today Show just

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Speaker 1: to see the Australian Today Show. Well, so anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been good and if we have listeners here who

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Speaker 1: would like to listen to me read the book, the

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Speaker 1: audiobook is also available, so if you are looking for

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Speaker 1: something to listen to in between releases of the Best

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Speaker 1: of Both Worlds podcasts, you can listen to the audiobook

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Speaker 1: of Off the Clock. Naryn and I can just be

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Speaker 1: in your car with you every morning instead of just

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Speaker 1: one morning a week. So I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: exciting or not to people, but I would. I would

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Speaker 1: appreciate people checking it out. It's a fun book to

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Speaker 1: write and it's it's been gratifying to hear some reviews

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Speaker 1: from people who've read other things and enjoyed this one

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Speaker 1: as I yes, I really can personally vouch for the book.

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Speaker 1: I really liked it. So we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: guilt and Laura has warmed up already and of the

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Speaker 1: BBC listeners about mom guilt so exactly. So that's perfect

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Speaker 1: because we got a great question from a listener and

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Speaker 1: after we got this question, we realized, hey, This is

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Speaker 1: one of those questions that could easily be an entire episode,

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Speaker 1: So why not? I think this is a great topic.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping that lots of you weigh in on Laura's

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Speaker 1: blog post when she publishes this one, because I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: sort of interested menteres I think this is this, Laura.

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Speaker 1: This could be your next book. I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: guilt book. I don't know. Maybe. Okay, So here's a question.

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Speaker 1: I have a question for you and Sarah about the

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Speaker 1: guilt of being a working mom and waste get rid

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Speaker 1: of it. I have a three and a half year

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Speaker 1: old and a nine month old. I went back to

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Speaker 1: work when both of my kids were four months old,

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Speaker 1: and I only work three days a week now. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how long that will last, but I have

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Speaker 1: incredible guilt about working. I recently read a book called

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Speaker 1: Being There, which makes the argument that women need to

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Speaker 1: be home with their kids full time for the first

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Speaker 1: three years, or else the kids could be damaged psychologically. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. She basically says that a lot of issues

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Speaker 1: with kids today stem from missing their mothers who worked

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Speaker 1: when they were little, and not connecting properly with them.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of this book and or have any

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Speaker 1: thoughts that might help me feel not so bad about it.

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Speaker 1: I cried for about a week after reading it. My son,

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Speaker 1: the three and a half year old, has been very

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Speaker 1: challenging for the last year and has a lot of

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Speaker 1: behavioral issues that other moms I know have not experienced

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Speaker 1: with their kids, or so you think, I added that

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Speaker 1: bar I've been told by some that he's just spirited

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Speaker 1: and that he will grow out of it, but I

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Speaker 1: continue to wonder if I'm to blame for his behavior

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Speaker 1: because I worked when he was a baby. I don't

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Speaker 1: have lots of friends who are working moms, so I

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Speaker 1: feel alone in the working mother world. She then added

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Speaker 1: to that, so if we followed up like yes'd like

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Speaker 1: both got into the conversation, so she said, one thing

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Speaker 1: I need to add regarding my original email is I

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Speaker 1: do think my guilt comes from society and social circles

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Speaker 1: more than anything else. I am educated and come from

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Speaker 1: a household where college was a requirement, not an option,

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Speaker 1: and my mom worked my entire life. I always planned

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Speaker 1: on working after kids because it was the norm to me.

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Speaker 1: But my husband has a job with long hours, sometimes

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Speaker 1: unexpected overtime, and along commute. I am the only working

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Speaker 1: mom in his social circle of wives where we live,

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Speaker 1: and many of them tend to not work. These women

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time talking and posting on social

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Speaker 1: media about how they are doing what's best for their

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Speaker 1: kids and how, in quotes blessed they are to be

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Speaker 1: able to stay home with them and enjoy a good

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Speaker 1: quality of life. They ask me why I choose to

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Speaker 1: work when I have small kids, and they don't understand

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Speaker 1: my choices, often expressing their feelings in a way that

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Speaker 1: makes me feel like I'm a bad mother. I think

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Speaker 1: being around these women has had more of an influence

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Speaker 1: on me than it should. Unfortunately, discussing ways to alleviate

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Speaker 1: guilt and not let society make you feel bad for

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Speaker 1: wanting to use your brain and be an independent woman

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Speaker 1: should be an excellent podcast topic. Well it really, and

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Speaker 1: here we are, as I say, we don't usually read

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Speaker 1: that much of these questions, but I felt like all

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Speaker 1: the nuances here were really important, and I think they're

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Speaker 1: going to resonate with some of our listens. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would say the first two things is she needs

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Speaker 1: a different reading list and she needs different friends. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was my first two takeaways from this, like, why

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Speaker 1: would you read a book that's going to make you

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Speaker 1: cry for a week, Like, you know, if you're maybe

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Speaker 1: a book that makes you cry, make it be like

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Speaker 1: a great novel that you know moves you on the

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Speaker 1: human condition and cry about that, as opposed to somebody

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Speaker 1: you know, cherry picking studies to make a political point.

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Speaker 1: The second thing is that friends should make you feel

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Speaker 1: better about life. So if your friends are making you

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Speaker 1: feel like bad about life and like you're horrible and

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Speaker 1: all that, when particularly what you're doing is like not

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Speaker 1: an abnormal thing, like most mothers of small children do work,

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Speaker 1: and most children are not disasters, So clearly it's not,

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Speaker 1: you know, a complete causative sort of relationship. It might

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Speaker 1: be wise to expand the social circle a little bit

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Speaker 1: and look for people who help you feel more positive

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Speaker 1: about your life and that all is good. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: guilt thing, because she did phrase it and wanting sort

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Speaker 1: of practical solutions. Yeah, well you mentioned thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: and this is a practical solution. I mean, I have

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Speaker 1: some of my own things to add too, but this

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Speaker 1: is a practical solution about thinking about it from a

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Speaker 1: male perspective, Yeah, does her husband feel guilty about working

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Speaker 1: long hours, having a long commute and unexpected overtime, Like,

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Speaker 1: does he feel racked with guilt about this idea because

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Speaker 1: you're working a lot less than he is, So I

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Speaker 1: don't know. This is just that's how you can tell

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Speaker 1: it's social, right, that it's it's social. And she even

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Speaker 1: knows that it's social. So maybe sitting down and writing

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Speaker 1: down all the things that she does do with her

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Speaker 1: kids and maybe even comparing that to what her husband

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Speaker 1: does with the kids might be helpful in enabling her

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Speaker 1: to actually physically kind of see that there's so much

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Speaker 1: that they get from her. Yeah, now you've got to

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Speaker 1: make sure you've got the right comparison here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's comparing herself to other people's social media posts, which,

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Speaker 1: right there is a curated version of your life. Often

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Speaker 1: when people are posting a lot about on something on

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Speaker 1: social media, it's also because they're feeling a little bit

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Speaker 1: insecure about it. And yes, I mean, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to go out there and say this because I have

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Speaker 1: seen on my Facebook feed, like some of the most

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Speaker 1: over the top, like I love my spouse type posts

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Speaker 1: that I've seen are couples that get divorced later, And

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Speaker 1: I know what it is is that they're feeling very

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Speaker 1: insecure about the relationship and so they feel the need

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Speaker 1: to talk about it a lot, and so on some

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Speaker 1: level that you can see that with social media and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things like I need to post about

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Speaker 1: just how good a mom I am because I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: insecure in some way, shape or form about it, and

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Speaker 1: which that's totally normal human condition right there. But I

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Speaker 1: would not view their social media posts as what life

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Speaker 1: is actually well. And I think there's probably guilt on

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Speaker 1: their side too, So they're probably feeling guilty for not

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Speaker 1: contributing to their family in a productive manner and not

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Speaker 1: a productive matter in any financial manner. Sorry sorry, sorry,

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Speaker 1: it's very productive matter. That that was not the right

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Speaker 1: wording in a financial manner, and so maybe some of

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Speaker 1: that is sort of justification. Now. I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: even worried about the example they're setting for their daughters,

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Speaker 1: like let's throw that out possibly, But I think it's,

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Speaker 1: like I've said, it's it's totally okay with me if

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Speaker 1: someone says I want to stay home because I enjoy

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Speaker 1: my kids and I want to be with them, and

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Speaker 1: that's how I want to spend my life. Like, I

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Speaker 1: take zero offense to that, But that doesn't tend to

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Speaker 1: be the narrative. Instead, people twisted to I want to

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Speaker 1: stay home because I'm giving myself to my kids and

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Speaker 1: I'm a martyr and i'm you know, like, the so

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Speaker 1: blessed doesn't actually bother me, because so blessed to me

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Speaker 1: means like, oh, I'm lucky to be able to do this,

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Speaker 1: which if they're in a financial position to do it,

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Speaker 1: then I guess that they are, although sometimes sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: a short sighted ability to do it from a financial perspective.

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Speaker 1: So the blessed part doesn't bother me. But the idea

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Speaker 1: that they would kind of say that their children are

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Speaker 1: so blessed or that they were doing what is right,

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Speaker 1: you know that, which implies that you're doing what is wrong,

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Speaker 1: that is problematic with it. Yeah, I mean, one thing

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Speaker 1: I would I would point out here is it is

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Speaker 1: very dangerous from a financial perspective to completely get yourself

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Speaker 1: out of the workforce, as in being like retired when

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Speaker 1: your kids are little. Very few families can be sure

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Speaker 1: that that won't be a problem later either that there

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Speaker 1: will be a breadwinner job loss at some point that

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Speaker 1: there will be a disability that somebody will need to

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Speaker 1: retire earlier than they wish to because of changes in

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Speaker 1: the industry. You know, there could be unexpected expenses later,

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Speaker 1: like college is pretty expensive, you know, or there could

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Speaker 1: be things that happened that it would really help to

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Speaker 1: have an extra find cushion or even just saving for retirement,

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Speaker 1: you know, having an extra income, and it could be

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Speaker 1: very hard to get back in, which is why it's

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Speaker 1: good to at least be doing something like even if

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Speaker 1: you are mostly staying home with your kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing a couple hours a week of freelance projects, making

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Speaker 1: sure you're keeping that networking going something a little bit

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Speaker 1: on the side so that you can scale that backup

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Speaker 1: when you need to. It's just a much better financial situation,

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Speaker 1: which it sounds is exactly what this woman is doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she's working part time right that, so she's

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Speaker 1: keeping her hand in and also spending time with her

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Speaker 1: kids like this is it just strikes you like to

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Speaker 1: feel guilty about that? Is so yeah, because when she

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Speaker 1: identifies why she's she's feeling guilty from reading a book,

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Speaker 1: which well, I'll talk I did a little bit of

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Speaker 1: you know, informal internet research that I think might make

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Speaker 1: her feel better, and because of exactly what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: like the social circles and the things that they're saying,

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Speaker 1: that she's letting get to her. So let's say she's

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Speaker 1: working three days a week and it's nine hours each day,

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Speaker 1: so that's like twenty seven hours, so one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty eight hours in a week. If she is sleeping

431
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: fifty six and working twenty seven. I mean, this is seriously, like,

432
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, eighty some hours. I wish I've just done

433
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: the math before the other. But it's like eighty some

434
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: hours of not working time. Like why is the twenty

435
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: seven the problem when there's eighty plus hours of not working,

436
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: not sleeping time to play around with. And she also

437
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: has a kid that's three and a half whom you know,

438
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: many of her stay at home mom friends may have

439
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: their kids at that age in preschool, so they're not

440
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: with them during those times. You know, that's even subtracting

441
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: more hours that they wouldn't be around them. Also, lots

442
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: of kids have disciplinary slash behavioral issues that you know,

443
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: it's possible that he is a very spirited child. I

444
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: mean that's just reality. There's kids who are easier to parent,

445
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: and they're kids who are less easy to parent, and

446
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: you get what you get. And I guess you don't

447
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: get upset because you know they are who they are.

448
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: So I I, do you feel the guilt thing, Sarah?

449
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta say, I honestly don't. And I

450
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: know that it's prevalent, which is why we get lots

451
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: of questions about it. I know that it's a very

452
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: clickbaity word. I wouldn't be surprised if this episode with

453
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: that in the title gets more listens more downloads than

454
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: the average episode, because it is a very clicky word.

455
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: And yet I just don't see it. I mean, I

456
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I mean, partly it's that

457
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: I track my time so I can see that I'm

458
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: spending like copious quantities of time with my kids. That's

459
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: why I know, like some of their puzzles by shape

460
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: alone of the pieces, like even if they're not turned over,

461
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, I've done this puzzle so many times. I

462
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: know that that is on the bottom, you know. I

463
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: or all the kids' books memory oh dozens at this point, yes,

464
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: and or all the events and sporting stuff. I've driven

465
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: to all the initial pancakes I've made in the morning,

466
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: Like you know what, there are initials like JSR on

467
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: the griddle. You know, because I see this. I you know,

468
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, oh, well, I didn't go to X,

469
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: Y and Z because I'm because I also went to

470
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: AB and CDFG, et cetera. I also, it's a question

471
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: of who you're comparing yourself to. I think the primary

472
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: important comparison is my husband, and I know I'm around

473
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: a lot more than he is, you know, data wise,

474
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: Like I know that, and so I don't understand why

475
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 1: I would feel guilty. Like if somebody needs to feel guilty,

476
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: he can and he does. He doesn't. He doesn't. I

477
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: asked Josh this morning, I said, in preparation for this episode,

478
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: do you have any dad guilt? And he says he said, well,

479
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: now I don't because I'm home Moore, which he is

480
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: because he's been kind of making an effort to get

481
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: home a little bit early when he can. But he

482
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: said he before so that was interesting. Well, that's good

483
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: he made a choice a change based on it. I

484
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: guess that was workable for you guys. But we're talking

485
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: from a perspective if he had been like you know,

486
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: finishing up paperwork until nine or ten at night, right,

487
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: like oh, and he still does many nights, but like

488
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, now one night, two or no,

489
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I would stay up to two sometimes three.

490
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: He'll come home at like seven, which is awesome. So

491
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: I think the perspective of where this ivan compared to

492
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: like this woman who wrote in this letter right where

493
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: she's like, oh my gosh, I work three days and wait, yes,

494
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: you know you're not even talking this thing. There's no comparison,

495
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: No we are. And it's funny because I was in

496
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: the BBC Scotland interview this morning with its coming back

497
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: to One of my fellow interviewees was a man, and

498
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: the interviewer asked about this, like you know, he said, yeah,

499
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: I feel some guilt, but he was comparing himself to

500
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: his father, and compared to his father, he spends like

501
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: Gobs more time with his kids, partly just because the

502
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: nature of fatherhood has changed. I think there's many men

503
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: who grew up, you know, fifty sixty years ago who

504
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: never changed a diaper, and that's just not no one

505
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: would expect that now almost no one would expect that now.

506
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: So I think many men, if they're comparing themselves to

507
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: their fathers, they feel like I'm doing great, Like in

508
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: many cases, you know, not only are they maybe earning

509
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: more than their fathers, they're spending more time with their

510
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: kids too, like, wow, we're winning on all levels. So

511
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: it's but you're right, that's not the right now. They're

512
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: right compares Why don't you compare it to your spouse then?

513
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: Or I could be right. You can choose who you

514
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: want to compare yourself to. But I'm saying there's no

515
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: reason that women should compare themselves to some social media posts.

516
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: When men are comparing themselves to their own fathers, I mean,

517
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: that's just setting yourself up for whether you want to

518
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: spend a week crying or feel like awesome about your life. Again,

519
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: it's like what you choose to compare yourself to. I mean,

520
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: you asked whether I feel mom gil. I think I'm

521
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: more susceptible to it than you. The logical side of

522
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: my brain absolutely not, the kind of like part of

523
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: my psyche that I have less control over. I think

524
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: sometimes the thoughts filter in. I think if I read

525
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: that book, I'm the kind of person. If I read something,

526
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: sometimes I put a little more weight into the fact

527
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: that it's a printed word and to sort of trust

528
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: what it says, and might be like, oh my god.

529
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: But the truth is I did a little googling and basically,

530
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's not really good studies on this that

531
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: they're like one giant meta analysis that looked at sixty

532
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: nine studies over fifty years, so that in general, children

533
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: of mothers who worked when young had no major learning,

534
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: behavioral or school problems and tended to be higher achievers

535
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: in school and have less depression or anxiety. My question is,

536
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, now that we're in a

537
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: little bit of a different realm than the fifty years ago,

538
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: maybe that's changed, especially because anxiety and depression are more

539
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: common now, But who knows. One study said maybe there's

540
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: an increase in BMI in children of mothers who worked,

541
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: particularly in higher socioeconomic brackets, and they postulated more TV watching.

542
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: My counter argument is that maybe it's more unsupervised food intake.

543
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows, or like, you know, the day

544
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: like the daycare keeping the kid happy with five bottles,

545
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: you know that, like we talked about so I don't know,

546
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: but that's that, wouldn't you know? There are so many

547
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: factors that go into BMI, so many factors that that's

548
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: got to be one teeny tiny one amongst genetics, an environment,

549
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: and the socio economic status in general. That's probably a

550
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: lot more powerful than within that bracket, that tiny difference. So,

551
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't find objective data to back to

552
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: back up the idea that you are ruining your family

553
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: if you go to work. However, you know, sorry, can

554
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: I just interject one? Oh yeah, yeah. The problem with

555
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: studies of it. Okay, any small study can find anything

556
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: going one way or the other. Okay, this is the reality,

557
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: partly because what is the endpoint? So I remember, like

558
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: when I was new into the parenting journey or thinking

559
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: about it, a lot of people would say to me, well,

560
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: all the research finds that children of mothers who stay

561
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: home turn out better. Let's unpack that for a minute.

562
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: What does it mean to turn out better? Like, what

563
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: is your measurable endpoint that study? I mean, is it

564
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: like attending an ivy league university? Is it staying out

565
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: of jail? I mean, is it like earning a certain

566
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: amount practice? Is it health? Mental health knows and they

567
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: don't know either. That's just you know, people are just

568
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: saying that, right, they don't actually know. One thing we

569
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: do know is that families with two working parents tend

570
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: to be higher income, right than families with one income

571
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: just through sheer map, right, two incomes unless you're talking

572
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: like you know, the investment bankers of the world, like

573
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: generally two workers can earn more than one, and so

574
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: kids need time and money, and when they have more money,

575
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: there are advantages that don't come when you lack that money.

576
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: So you know that it's so hard to tease out

577
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: stuff like that. It's also that there's a wide variety

578
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: of reasons that women wind up staying home with their children.

579
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: You know, one is the stereotype I think this woman

580
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: is comparing herself to, which is that you know, it's

581
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: the highly educated, op doubt person who you know, used

582
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer and decided to put all that

583
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: energy into child raising after stepping out of the workforce.

584
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: That's one thing. There's also women who stay home because

585
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: there's nothing they can do that would cover the cost

586
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: of childcare. That they're young, they're you know, not very educated,

587
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: that they don't have a whole lot of marketable skills.

588
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: That is another reason that that people wind up staying home.

589
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: So if you compare that, you're not going to come

590
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: up with the same data looking at those two groups.

591
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: You know that those are different outcomes, not because anyone's

592
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: doing anything better or worse than anyone else. It's just

593
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: that the children of one set of the moms who

594
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: are home not because of choice but because of you know,

595
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: economic circumstances, are facing other economic difficulties. So there's no

596
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: turnout like this idea of how children turn out, there's

597
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: no good, measurable endpoint. So and it isn't a contest,

598
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: and there's no women you know what I mean, Like

599
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: I think no, I mean really, I think people do

600
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: get caught in the mindset like you're yeah, like turning

601
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: out a better product, Like the goal for all of

602
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: us is to raise kids who are you know, enjoying

603
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: their lives and hopefully contributing in some positive way to

604
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: society the end Like that probably should be it, And

605
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: you're right, other yardsticks are are difficult. So it is

606
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: it's interesting because the look is, you know, certain healthy outcomes,

607
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: but again even it doesn't look like there are yeah,

608
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very very difficult stays. You're

609
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: right too. It's one of those things. It's like the

610
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: breastfeeding studies, Like there's so many variables that when you're

611
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: quote unquote controlling for things, you just get meaningless. It

612
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: sort of turns into like a stass exercise rather than

613
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: it being anything meaningful. And with that, I would also

614
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: say another reason not to feel guilt is like, my

615
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: children are among the luckiest people on the planet. I mean,

616
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: there is no way around that, like the number of

617
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: awesome things they have in their lives, in terms of

618
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: how many people care about them, like their parents dote

619
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: on them. They are, you know, financially well off, their

620
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: parents are educated and making sure that they are focused

621
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: on their school work and getting all these opportunities with

622
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: extra curriculars and all that. I mean, you know, it's

623
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: all of that is stuff that many other kids don't have.

624
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: And so the whole thing of like guilt is that

625
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: somebody needs to be hurt for guilt to be an

626
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: appropriate emotion. Guilt is one of those evolved emotions, so

627
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: that if I, like insulted you and you were mad,

628
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: I would then want to make amends because that meant

629
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: we could repair our relationship. So that's the point of guilt,

630
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: so that our tribe could then continue functioning and we

631
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't all just be off in our own little snits

632
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: in our caves. But if nobody being hurt, and these kids,

633
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: who are again among the luckiest people on the planet,

634
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: are clearly not being hurt, then it's hard to see

635
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: what the point of the guilt is. I think that

636
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: sometimes I can replace in my mind the we're guilt

637
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: with like sort of wistfulness that you can't have everything

638
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: both ways. Like you know, if I miss a school

639
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: event or I have to send my nanny to the

640
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: pediatricians office for like a strep test, I'm sort of like, oh,

641
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: I kind of wish I could be there too. And

642
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: I think it's important not to confuse that feeling of

643
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: again wistfulness with oh, I'm guilty because I'm bad, Because

644
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: the truth is, like, whether I'm there for like a

645
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: throat swab, there's not going to be a bad outcome,

646
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: and I can still comfort her, comfort her when I

647
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: get home, and you know, that's not going to have

648
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: any long term negative consequences, So that the and to

649
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: throw that in there you know, is dad guilty for

650
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: not going to that appointment? I don't think so so.

651
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: And also, you know, you have skills you're using at

652
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: the time she's getting the throat slog that are contributing

653
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: to society too. Like there's you know, a child whose

654
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: diabetes is not going to be out of control because

655
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: you figured out a better, you know, treatment process for

656
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: It's just like, yeah, I'm either disappointing my patients and

657
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: not caring. I mean, that's that's unique to my particular

658
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: Every job, I guess, yeah, I mean yeah, every job,

659
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: though it has trade offs, people do really do things.

660
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I gosh, I remember one of the most

661
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: ridiculous comments online comments I ever read of somebody being like, oh,

662
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, better to stay home with my kids than

663
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: make a corporation rich by making widgets. I'm like, really, okay,

664
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: it's the widget making like the only thing you could

665
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: see of that somebody might do. You know, I'm personally

666
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: very happy that, like my kids, doctors who are women

667
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: are generally mothers, Like, I'm glad they decided to keep working.

668
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad my kids teachers who are highly skilled, you know,

669
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: wonderful educators who also tend to have children. I'm really

670
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: glad they decided to continue. Or their principal who leads

671
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: a wonderful school, I'm glad she can tell. You know,

672
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad that our pastors, who are often moms, are

673
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, doing great work for everyone else, and yet they,

674
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: you know, they continue to work. I'm glad they did.

675
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: Many of our elected leaders around here are also, you know,

676
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: working moms. I'm glad they are offering their talents. But

677
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: even if the person's like Adeo game designer, then they're

678
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: they're a maybe bringing to contributing to their team of

679
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: their coworkers and see helping earn money that will better

680
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: their families lives. So they're still doing something positive for

681
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: their family by being at work, even if it doesn't

682
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: seem any like maybe if your job is selling cocaine,

683
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: like then you can go feel guilty about it. But yeah, like,

684
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: I think it's just this woman didn't say what she

685
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: was doing actually, which is interesting. We could maybe analyze

686
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: that what her job was, and I think she must

687
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: like her job. I think she must find it gratifying

688
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: enough to keep going in the face of these influences

689
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: and people in her face yea too. I mean there's

690
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: and and there's something to be said for that. I think,

691
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: you know, if you think what you're doing is having

692
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: an impact and you enjoy it, then you can see

693
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: these trade offs more clearly, and that why you might

694
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: continue doing it if you do have, you know, an

695
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: immediate economic choice. Obviously many people do not have the

696
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: economic choice. There's a lot of single parents too. That

697
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: is really you mean, you have to work, what else

698
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: are you going to do? But you know, this problem

699
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: of putting this all in the realm of choice is

700
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: then it enters this thing if it's only a choice

701
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: for women. But that's generally not true for you know,

702
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: she says she's got a college degree and all that,

703
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: and probably she could do something where her husband could

704
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: stay home, and you know, there's probably something she could

705
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: do that would support a family. So it's just really

706
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: a very gendered sort of narrative. Yes, So in the

707
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: end of the day, we're saying, don't read this kind

708
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: of book. Don't read that will not be on our

709
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: book recommendation. Question your impulses and find some I would

710
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: find some great role models of working women that will

711
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: make you realize that the whole idea. Yea, and that

712
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: could be its own episode. I mean, we've done a

713
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: friend's episode of how you Meet New friends, and clearly

714
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: this woman needs some new friends that aren't going to

715
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: make her feel guilty. But you know, maybe go find

716
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: start the book club or you know, other people at

717
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: the kids' schools, you know, join some sort of extra

718
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: regular activity I'm going to acquire, you know, like go

719
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: classes at the gym. You might be people there, but

720
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: just know ways to find other people to socialize with

721
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: who might be a bit more compatible. Yes, awesome. Well,

722
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: I am so excited to read and listen and hear

723
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: the listener feedback on this one. So I really hope

724
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: everybody weighs in when Laura writes her blog post, because

725
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: I think this is going to likely bring out a

726
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: lot of it. So we've been talking about guilt and

727
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: what leads to it and what to do about it,

728
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: and whether people should feel guilt at all. So there

729
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: we go, all right to the listener Q and a,

730
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: oh and it kind of has guilty and a different

731
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: form of guilt. Panjestically, do you want to read it? It

732
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: It says, this is a question for your best of

733
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: both worlds. Podcasts. Okay, so she sometimes people just email me,

734
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: but it's to both of us. She says she loved

735
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: it and listens to it religiously, which we highly recommend.

736
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: By the way, please tell your friends about it as well.

737
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: All right, she says, I have two girls, ages two

738
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: and a half and five and a half. I am

739
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: the primary parent, and I find myself spending a lot

740
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: more one on one time with my older daughter, taking

741
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: her to birthday parties, girl Scout activities, and just in general,

742
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: as it's easier to take a five and a half

743
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: year old somewhere rather than a newly potty trained two

744
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: and a half year old. I am involved with Girl

745
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: Scouts and volunteer in her classrooms, so it makes sense

746
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: that I take our older daughter to these activities rather

747
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: than my husband. I find myself feeling guilty that I

748
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: do not do an equal amount of one on one

749
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 1: time with my younger daughter. I could take my younger

750
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: daughter out alone sometimes, but it doesn't seem fair to

751
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: exclude my older daughter from these activities, since it's not

752
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: like I purposefully leave out younger daughter at the times

753
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 1: when she stays home with her dad. My girls really

754
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: love each other, and sure, I'm not sure the younger

755
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: daughter would want her older sister to be excluded. Should

756
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: I purposely carve out alone time with my younger daughter

757
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: or should I let it go and figure things will

758
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: even out when she gets older. Well, I would say, first,

759
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: this is an example of how you can feel guilt

760
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: about anything. Like this is the woman who is, you know,

761
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: doing all the volunteering, and in the classroom the girls

762
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: gus stuff and she's like, oh, but I'm guilty about

763
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: neglecting my younger kid. So maybe it's you know, they're

764
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: they're Perhaps say home with your kids would not make

765
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: all the guilt go away. Consider that, Yeah, you just

766
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: feel guilty for having too many kids and not being

767
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: able to I mean, yeah, yes, you can be guilty

768
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: about anything. I will say when I read this, the

769
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: thing that stands out to me is that I totally

770
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: understand how it can be more enjoyable to do things

771
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: with an older child. Or perhaps maybe the kids are

772
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: the same age, but the temperaments are different, Like maybe

773
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: one kid is just more challenging, so it's like less

774
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: fun to take them to the store. But I would

775
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: argue that it makes sense to do something. But this

776
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: is a case where scale and the lack of a

777
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: sense of scale for most little kids could really work

778
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: in your favor. So maybe you know you're naturally spending

779
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: a lot of one time, one on one time with

780
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: your five and a half year old. It doesn't mean

781
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: that you have to then take your two and a

782
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: half year old on a solo outing. That's equal. I

783
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: think if you spend ten minutes being like, hey, we're

784
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: gonna do a bath, just us together, or play trains.

785
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: That was Cameron's thing after I had Genevieve in his

786
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: room for like ten minutes, they will see that as

787
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: like an amazing effort on your part and feel special,

788
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: even if it's not such a big deal, like I

789
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: don't even you know, if if she doesn't care, your

790
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: younger one doesn't care, then maybe you don't even have

791
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: to do anything. But I felt like, you know, when

792
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: when Genevieve was born, because we're almost born, almost six,

793
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: and I felt like Cameron really did care, and it

794
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: was it was full doing this. It was the same

795
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: exact situation, like I felt like everything was happening with

796
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: Annabelle where she would be taking place as solo and

797
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: she was kind of like easier to bring places. And

798
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: all we did was add in some really minor things

799
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: to do with Cameron and that seemed to do the

800
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: trick pretty well. So I yeah, that's that was how

801
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: we handled it. And Laura, actually, you know, as her

802
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: kids have gotten older, talk about like the I want

803
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on this, but I also you

804
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: should mention like your soul outings. I have kids. I'm

805
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: sort of amazed sometimes how how much it does wind

806
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: up working out to spend a little bit of time

807
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: with each of them one on one, and I try

808
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: to do I try to think about it. You know,

809
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm driving to different activities when I have just one

810
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: of them in the car and try to use that

811
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: time or spending a little bit of solo time with

812
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: them before bed. You know, the three year old takes

813
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: forever to put to bed, but you know I always

814
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: read a story to the six year old and we

815
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: do this little thing where I take the bad dreams

816
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: out and my eleven year old often comes to have

817
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: a little talk at different points. But yeah, I do

818
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: one solo trip with the kids in the summer. I

819
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: do these mommy days where they can choose what where

820
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: they'd like to go and within reason, and then we

821
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: do a solo day trip, me and that kid, and

822
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: they're usually very pleasant because then I'm not you know,

823
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 1: hurting a crowd, and they're not fighting with each other,

824
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: like if we often wind up doing amusement parks and

825
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: if one kid wants to go on a ride, we

826
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: can just go on that ride. Like it's not like, oh,

827
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: but I want to go on this and you let

828
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: her go on that. No, I'm it's the fighting, which

829
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: is just soul sucking at many points. So you just

830
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: do what that one wants to do. And I find

831
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: that's been really exciting for them. They've enjoyed that. It's

832
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: been a great kind of memory making experience. I'm planning

833
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: to do it with all four kids because I think

834
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: the three year old is old enough to have a

835
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: little bit more say in it. But I may just

836
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: wind up helping him choose because I'm not sure that

837
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: he has a good sense of what the options. It's

838
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: not like he's going to get on the internet and

839
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: research it right like it's and but that's the honest

840
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: truth too, is like the eleven year old like the

841
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: standards rise, Like my eleven year old, for Christmas, he

842
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: asked to be taken to the Georgia Aquarium. Like he

843
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: was very into this idea of taking trip, and so

844
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: my husband wound up taking him to Atlanta for the

845
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: weekend to go to a Georgia aquarium. That was his

846
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: big present. Like the three year old, you can just

847
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: bring him to the pet store and look at the

848
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: turtles in the in the you know, cages, and be

849
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: like excited about it. He doesn't need to go to

850
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: Georgia to the aquarium, and he doesn't you know, he

851
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't even he'd be uncomfortable with being on the plane

852
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: all that stuff anyway. Much So, Yeah, the scale, the

853
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: sense of scale, like little kids, you don't need to

854
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: do as much. You don't need to worry about like,

855
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: oh do I need to start an activity that just

856
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: us do? I think if you just think about how

857
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: can I spend ten minutes with this kid today, fully

858
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: focused on this one child, you'll probably make it work

859
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 1: and it'll probably be great. Yeah. And I guess after

860
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: listening to this, I would also say, don't add a

861
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: problem where there isn't. Yes, if your two and a

862
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: half year old seems completely fine with things or is

863
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: like asking her older sister to come when you do

864
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: suggest an outing like, yeah, that's fine. There's no right

865
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: answer here, all right, So now our love of the week,

866
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: we uh, Laura doesn't like to my love of the week,

867
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: this little stereotype here. Next thing, I know, we're to

868
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: see all these like baby food, but sorry, you tell

869
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: me what your love of the week. Okay, So well

870
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: I have a twist there, right, because my love, my

871
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: love of the week is I bought like twenty four

872
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: or something of these Oxo glass frozen baby food containers.

873
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: And this is not saying like, oh, my baby's just

874
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: too good for jarred food, not at all. Basically, I

875
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: our nanny like is happy to make the baby food,

876
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: and it takes like one second if you make a

877
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: big batch, so like we'll puree like organic frozen peas

878
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: or like whatever it is. And the truth is they

879
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: taste better than the jars. And that was sort of

880
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: my reasoning because there's no real I don't think big

881
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: nutritional difference. But anyway, so I bought these containers. So

882
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: she made giant batches and it took probably fifteen minutes,

883
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: and there's like two weeks or more worth of cute

884
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: little cubes of baby food in the freezer. So oh

885
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: xo they snap on their glass. They're not They're on Amazon.

886
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: They were like there was one color that was like

887
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: half the price of all the other colors. So I

888
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: ordered a bunch of what like what sort of blender setup?

889
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: Do your mixer set up? Do you see? Oh? She

890
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: just throws them in that queens art. Yeah, and you

891
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: don't even have to like microwa like you just literally

892
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: take like bags of like frozen food or if it's fresh,

893
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: like cut it up like a sweet potato. And especially

894
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: it's like like I think she made sweet potatoes for

895
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: all of us for dinner, and so she just took

896
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: the extra sweet potato threw it in the blender. And

897
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: then so it's kind are there going to be a

898
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: base for the No, you don't need No, No, I

899
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: mean you could, and I think I mean, when I've

900
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: fed Genevieve's certain things, I add a little bit of

901
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: like you know, pumped milk, or you can even add

902
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: a little water, like for example, I think she didn't

903
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: really like the green beans, so I add a little

904
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: breast milk and then she liked it. Magic. But no,

905
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: you don't need to add anything, because you know, vegetables

906
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: are pretty watery as is. Yeah. So and we did

907
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: do this with I did it myself with Annabelle, and

908
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: then she did it with Cameron, and then she's done

909
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: it with with Genevieve. So that's good. Yeah, it's doable.

910
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: It's not right, but you don't have to do any

911
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: Buy the jars too. I am not anti jar. We

912
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: buy the jars, we buy the squeeze packs. I'm an

913
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: equal opportunity. Whatever works at the moment. Yeah, so that's it. Yes,

914
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: what is your level of the week? Hopefully something. I'm

915
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: just kidding. So I've been eating not that well in

916
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: terms of I've been eating all these like comfort foody

917
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: type things, and I've gotten into somewhat of a bad

918
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: habit of having giant bowls of corn flakes. For whatever reason,

919
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: that has been what has been hitting the spot lately.

920
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: I poured the corns like sim bowl and I use

921
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: like whole milk, and then I even put a little

922
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: bit of heavy cream on it too, so it's like

923
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: really yummy, and I think of it and you're not pregnant.

924
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: I think it more as like dessert. But it's funny

925
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: because I used to eat cereal all the time of

926
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: growing up with bowls of cereals like our nighttime snack

927
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: all the time, and I stopped doing that, and ass

928
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: they eat eggs for breakfast now, and I'm sure that's

929
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: much healthier than breakfast cereal, but I kind of do

930
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: still like breakfast cereals, you know, a yummy food. So

931
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: I guess my my Giant corn Flakes has been really

932
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: hitting it for me lately. So that's awesome. I thought

933
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: you were going to be like and so my love

934
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: of the Week is like the whole thirty but you're like,

935
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, my love, I want to try it

936
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: at them. You know. I guess this is a whole

937
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: other episode topic. But I just don't feel like putting

938
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: the mental effort into the rigorous healthy eating and watching

939
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: what I eat and all that. And yeah, not a

940
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 1: priority for me right now. Maybe a priority for other people,

941
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: but not for me. And so that is what it is,

942
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: and it's working out fine. I run, you run. It's

943
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: probably not enough to completely outdo all that, but you

944
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: have to choose where to put your mental energy, and

945
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: you do. And I believe that, like Yolo really does

946
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: like influence my eating choices like I don't want to

947
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: live a life where I only eat like boring. I

948
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: like bread, I like beer, I like you know, I'm

949
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: not I don't have too big of a sweet tooth,

950
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: but there certainly I do love food, and so I

951
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: would prefer not to think of it in more of

952
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: a restrictive context. And so then, you know, you just

953
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: take the consequences as they are. I agree, I like

954
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: your lego. That's a good one. All right. Well, this

955
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: has been best of both worlds. We have been talking

956
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: guilt and how we feel about that G word, and

957
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: we will be back next week with more on making

958
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can

959
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at

960
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find

961
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been

962
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next

963
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: time for more on making work and life work together.