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Speaker 1: Alex is sitting down with Harold Ham to talk about

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Speaker 1: the book and so much more.

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Speaker 2: Alex every year.

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Speaker 1: Guy. Thank you so much, Harold, it's good to see you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for.

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Speaker 2: Joining well, it's good to be with you. Alex. Thank

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Speaker 2: you so much.

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Speaker 1: Congrats on the book.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to pick up on one passage from the

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Speaker 3: book and sort of start off there. We are nearing

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Speaker 3: a breaking point in America. If policymakers don't relent and

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Speaker 3: reverse hostile oil and natural gas policies, the American economy

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Speaker 3: will retract just as it did under Jimmy Carter. Inflation

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Speaker 3: will spiral, the quality of life for all Americans will

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Speaker 3: be lowered.

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Speaker 1: That's really stark.

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Speaker 3: Yet, you have the oil industry producing almost pre COVID

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Speaker 3: records more than Saudi Arabia. Exports are jumping, inflation's coming down,

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Speaker 3: the economy's okay.

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Speaker 1: Are we doing.

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Speaker 2: Okay well in that sense? Yes?

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Speaker 4: In another sense, no, with the policies that they keep

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Speaker 4: piling on and increasing regulatory burdens of all kinds that

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Speaker 4: they're piling on, plus everything that they've done. They took

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Speaker 4: all the federal lands off the table. Twenty six percent

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Speaker 4: of the land masks in the US that they're now allowing,

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Speaker 4: permitting and drilling sure on and so that thirty five

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Speaker 4: percent of the productive capacity to the US is about

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Speaker 4: what it is. So suddenly, if we can't keep up

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Speaker 4: and slide backwards to where we're not energy independent any longer.

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Speaker 4: We know what that looks like. We've been there, done that,

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Speaker 4: and it's not pretty, and it does affect all the

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Speaker 4: economy and it affects their politics around the world.

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Speaker 3: But if we're almost producing record levels already, what more

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Speaker 3: could be producing if we could fix the policies that

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Speaker 3: you advocate.

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Speaker 4: For in the book, you could offset you know what

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Speaker 4: we're seeing in inflation and for sure, uh and you

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Speaker 4: know we're not producing what we could be producing.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen million, seventeen million.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, I'm not saying that much, but you know,

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Speaker 4: we could be probably a maine barrel today mallion more

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Speaker 4: than we are and certainly probably need to with with

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Speaker 4: what's going on. So it would help the economy of

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Speaker 4: the US. It helped American workers and help inflation. Had

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Speaker 4: drive down prices.

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Speaker 3: A little bit, So yes, I can see that it

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Speaker 3: would drive down price for inflation. At the same time,

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Speaker 3: more oil means lower prices and we're already struggling to

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Speaker 3: stay at eighty dollars a barrel, even with another Saudy

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Speaker 3: extension on their cuts.

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Speaker 4: Why is that, Well, you need to look forward to

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Speaker 4: or three years, and you know, demand keeps rising. Hopefully

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Speaker 4: we'll get by, you know, the depression sensitive area that

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Speaker 4: we've been in the last two three years, you know,

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Speaker 4: with what's happened here with the economy in the US.

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Speaker 4: So looking forward, we need to be prepared for that.

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Speaker 4: So I'm saying we're nearing a breaking point, and certainly

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Speaker 4: we are here.

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Speaker 2: In the US.

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Speaker 3: What I was trying to Scott Scheffield yesterday of Pioneer,

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Speaker 3: and he was like, we could see hundred dollars by

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Speaker 3: the end of the year. He's always been constructed between

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Speaker 3: eighty and one hundred.

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Speaker 1: That's where the price has to live. Do you agree

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Speaker 1: with that?

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Speaker 3: And if we're a breaking point, what's the price that

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Speaker 3: we see a breaking point?

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't see a set one hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: by year end. Goldman thought maybe eighty six on the

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Speaker 4: high side. I believe they just report that. I think

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Speaker 4: that's being optimistic. You know, if we hang you know,

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Speaker 4: high seventies, low eighties. That's probably about where we're going

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Speaker 4: to be if.

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Speaker 3: We unleash more American energy, though, doesn't that wind up

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Speaker 3: hurting the price and they make it harder for you

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Speaker 3: to actually do business?

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Speaker 4: Well, let me, yeah, it affects price, It certainly does.

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Speaker 4: But you know, we keep waning in Red count reg

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Speaker 4: coount keeps dropping, maybe as it should if you're in

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Speaker 4: an oversupplied situation, but we're barely in an oversupplied situation.

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Speaker 4: Had the economy rebounded around the world, we wouldn't be oversupplied.

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Speaker 4: So it's been lagging. Can we keep shooting ourselves in

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Speaker 4: the foot with the American economy here at home? And

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Speaker 4: that affects everybody abroad and you don't.

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Speaker 1: Feel like things are actually okay.

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Speaker 3: The GDP is holding in inflations coming down, like are

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Speaker 3: you seeing that in your business or you see a

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Speaker 3: much tougher industry?

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Speaker 4: You know, inflation, the rate of inflation perhaps is waning,

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Speaker 4: it's coming down a little bit, which is good, but

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Speaker 4: you never get rid of that inflation that happened.

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Speaker 1: So you feel it's sticky, incontinental right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, it hit us about twenty percent, hit every operator

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Speaker 4: in the field, twenty percent, So that's that's becomes steady state.

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Speaker 4: The rate of inflation is still going up. There's lessening,

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Speaker 4: which is good. I'm glad to see that happening finally,

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Speaker 4: but it definitely had a bad effect.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like that's gonna stay that twenty percent or

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Speaker 3: a little bit that that's in it.

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Speaker 4: For a while. See, I think everybody understand. You never

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Speaker 4: get rid of that. You know, it happens, and it's

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Speaker 4: sticks with you.

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Speaker 2: It sticks.

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Speaker 1: What about labor?

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Speaker 3: We have the jobs report tomorrow and I'm wondering how

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Speaker 3: you look at the labor market, like, are you keeping

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Speaker 3: all the people that you want? Are you gonna have

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Speaker 3: to hoard labor? Are you gonna have to let go

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Speaker 3: some people if things get tougher?

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Speaker 1: How do you think about it? Now?

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Speaker 4: We're you know, we have a culture of continental. We

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Speaker 4: don't lay off anybody there downtime. You know, they suffer,

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Speaker 4: we suffer, and that's it.

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Speaker 2: We all stick together through those times.

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Speaker 4: So we don't lay anybody off.

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Speaker 2: We have all the folks that we need.

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Speaker 4: A continental and I think the industry does as well.

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Speaker 4: It was pinched there for a while, but today it's not.

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Speaker 4: You have the folks in.

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Speaker 3: The market today, lots of things are happening. Equity selling off,

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Speaker 3: rates are jumping higher. If rates go higher in the

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Speaker 3: long end for you, does that like, how does that

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Speaker 3: affect Harold? How does that affect Continental? How does that

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Speaker 3: affect your capital allocation?

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Speaker 4: Well, certainly interest rates affects everybody. Well have debt. We

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Speaker 4: have debt at Continental, and you know those costs are

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Speaker 4: real costs, so absolutely hurts.

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Speaker 1: Does it affect how you spend money?

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Speaker 3: You spend less money or do you produce less oil

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Speaker 3: because you have to pay more in interest?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely? Absolutely, we it effect your cash flow and ability

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Speaker 4: to spend in the field, which want to spend more

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Speaker 4: on own our debt.

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Speaker 1: You recently became private.

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Speaker 3: The book is amazing because it starts with you going

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Speaker 3: public to really develop the North Dakota part of the

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Speaker 3: of the Valkan and now kind of ends with.

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Speaker 1: You going private. What's the biggest thing.

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Speaker 3: That's happened since you were able to take it private

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Speaker 3: that you couldn't have done a year ago.

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Speaker 4: Well, the first thing. The big thing is that we

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Speaker 4: have twenty percent more productive capacity through the company.

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Speaker 2: Twenty percent.

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Speaker 1: Really, why is that? Just like no earnings releases? Is

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Speaker 1: that what that is, Well, we.

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Speaker 4: Don't have prepare for those continuous earnings releases, and we

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Speaker 4: don't have to worry about what the analyst on Walls

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Speaker 4: Preeters saying about us. You know, we're busy find oil

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Speaker 4: gas and also developing more efficient ways to operate. Uh huh, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's big and that's what we have to do today.

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Speaker 4: Lower orloe cost, lease operating expense, do all those things

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Speaker 4: that make it profitable. We run the Long Gas company.

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Speaker 1: So I wondered with the innovation, where are you going

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Speaker 1: to spend them. Where's Harold's innovative.

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Speaker 3: Brain going to spend more time getting more oil out

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Speaker 3: of where it is carbon capture and getting methane and

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Speaker 3: carbon emissions out or is it going to be like

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Speaker 3: doing things like lithium and other minerals that other oil

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Speaker 3: companies are looking into.

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Speaker 4: We're not doing lithium and other minerals. Carbon capture is important.

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Speaker 4: That was the right thing for us to do. It

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Speaker 4: wasn't carbon and we were producing Actually this is carbon

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Speaker 4: that the ethanol industry basically helping agriculture is so important

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Speaker 4: to them, and that was.

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Speaker 2: The right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: And certainly continental need to lead to work and be

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Speaker 4: involved in it with our expertise, and so we've done that.

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Speaker 4: I still spend a lot of time finding little gas

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Speaker 4: and we're in some exciting basins, of course, and you.

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Speaker 2: Know that's what I enjoyed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, as geologist, I like fond al and and then

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Speaker 4: produce it more efficiently and effectively. And also, uh, I

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Speaker 4: enjoy helping the industry and advocate for the industry as well.

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Speaker 1: Which you do and says Ham Institute. Also a couple

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Speaker 1: more questions. You were really really.

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Speaker 3: Critical about Larry Finger Black Rock in your book, particularly

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Speaker 3: the ESG movement. You were very instrumental in trying to

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Speaker 3: move the anti woke sentiment. Is that over, Like, do

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Speaker 3: you think there's more room to run to push against

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Speaker 3: ESG or do you feel like things have stabilized?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think whether I think everybody got critical of

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Speaker 4: what was going on with ESG.

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Speaker 2: Uh they sudden suddenly realize.

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Speaker 4: Uh how bad that was for business, Uh, how bad

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Speaker 4: that was for the consumers uh themselves, and uh that

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Speaker 4: that that shouldn't be happening. And there's been a tremendous

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Speaker 4: amount of pushback right here in Oklahoma. Our treasure decided

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Speaker 4: that any banks that won't deal with oil and gas.

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Speaker 4: We won't deal with them from state level, and that

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Speaker 4: some of those call me put in calls to me

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Speaker 4: to talk uh to our state treasurer.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 4: They got to s themselves in that box, and they're

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Speaker 4: gonna stay there for a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's not a popular thing.

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Speaker 4: Everybody realized how harmful and how detrimental that was. Uh

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Speaker 4: to single out anybody like that, and uh try to

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Speaker 4: try to uh basically uh uh use those uh practices.

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Speaker 2: That's not good.

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Speaker 3: And another part of the book and ties into the

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Speaker 3: SG is politics and how the government needs to change

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Speaker 3: the attitude of how they treat oil and gas. You

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Speaker 3: were a very early supporter of President Trump. I remember

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Speaker 3: talking to you on air like seven thirty in the

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Speaker 3: morning after President Trump was elected.

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Speaker 1: You had like no sleep and you came anyway.

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Speaker 3: You are not supporting President Trump this time, however, he's

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Speaker 3: still crushing it in the polls for the Republican candidates.

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Speaker 3: Is there anyone that you see that can really help

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Speaker 3: support the industry like President Trump did for you.

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Speaker 4: I look at h candidate and then Leand's you know,

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Speaker 4: with your outlook on energy and so I'd lovely to

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Speaker 4: probably rephrase that of not supporting President Trump because I

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Speaker 4: think he's got good energy policies, and you know, he's

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Speaker 4: not had good policies altogether for America.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean you are supporting President Trump?

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Speaker 4: Well, I am in some instances certainly. I think I

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Speaker 4: like these policies, and you know, I'm worried about down

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Speaker 4: the road. I'm for whoever couldn't get there and be

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Speaker 4: elected in twenty twenty four fours.

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Speaker 2: That's who I'm for.

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Speaker 3: So is it fair to say that anyone who isn't

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Speaker 3: President Biden you'll support on the Republican ticket?

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Speaker 2: Yes, pretty much.

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Speaker 4: You know, any extreme that the where is Biden or

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Speaker 4: whoever it is with those extreme policies out of the left,

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Speaker 4: I'm not for them. I'm for anybody else.

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Speaker 3: If President Biden picked up the phone today and was like, Harold,

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Speaker 3: come to DC, I want to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: What would you change your outlook?

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Speaker 2: Well, would you change my outlook?

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Speaker 4: You know, as far as I don't think he's been

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Speaker 4: a good president. You know, we've had the worst inflation

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Speaker 4: that in forty some years.

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Speaker 3: But aside from that, you get upset in the book

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Speaker 3: because he did never picked up the phone to call you.

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Speaker 3: You say he picked up the phone to call the

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Speaker 3: Saudi's in Venezuela instead.

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Speaker 4: If he did pick up the phone to you, oh absolutely,

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Speaker 4: I talked with it. I talked to John Carey, you know,

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Speaker 4: I would certainly talk to the President.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully he would listen to you.

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Speaker 3: All Right, we're gonna have to leave it there. Harold,

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Speaker 3: it was great to see you. We're going to talk

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Speaker 3: much more. But I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It's a great book.

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Speaker 3: Everyone should read, A game changer, no matter what side

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Speaker 3: you're on. It's a great lesson in innovation and energy

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Speaker 3: and oil within the United States.

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Speaker 1: Harold Ham, thank you so very much.