Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? You guys, Cynthia Nixon's here? Is he
Speaker 1: on the podcast? Are you a Charlotte? Which I think
Speaker 1: the answer is not, I think not really. Thank you
Speaker 1: Cynthia for being here, Thank you for having it. It's
Speaker 1: beyond exciting, it is. It is so okay what we
Speaker 1: want to do. I mean there's a lot, right, there's
Speaker 1: like kind of endless amounts of things to talk about,
Speaker 1: but what I want to do with you because I
Speaker 1: have you here and for me, once I started rewatching,
Speaker 1: which you remember, I never rewatched like I watched at
Speaker 1: the time, but I find it like uncomfortable. But at
Speaker 1: this point, looking back, it's not so uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 1: It's more like archaeological, right, you know, like what is
Speaker 1: going on? You know? So I really once we started
Speaker 1: the podcast, I really felt like I need to have
Speaker 1: us on to talk about the beginnings, right, because all
Speaker 1: of us had different experiences and all of us were
Speaker 1: coming from different places, you know, and that's what's kind
Speaker 1: of so interesting about it. I think in a way,
Speaker 1: like we were all so different in terms of the
Speaker 1: careers we were having and then we all came together
Speaker 1: for this and magic happened, and here we are almost
Speaker 1: thirty years later, which you know, crazy, insane to think crazy.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about I mean, should
Speaker 1: I intro a little like, you know, you were at
Speaker 1: this incredible Broadway actress. I mean I had seen Cynthia,
Speaker 1: not knowing Cynthia in when when uh, I really bly,
Speaker 1: I saw the other one, the real thing, the real thing,
Speaker 1: which I love so much. She was in two Broadway
Speaker 1: plays across the street from each other at the same time. Okay,
Speaker 1: she'd done Juliet and Shakespeare in the Park. You'd been
Speaker 1: in Amadaeus. I mean just you'd been in.
Speaker 2: The I've with Robert Altman and Sarah Jessica and I
Speaker 2: of course really knew each other, which was amazing because
Speaker 2: we were child actors in.
Speaker 1: New York, right, and you're in that. We did a
Speaker 1: bunch of things to get Vanessa red Grave.
Speaker 2: We played sisters in a TV movie with Vanessa Redgrave
Speaker 2: and Jack Albertson.
Speaker 1: Yes, unbelievable. So when did you hear about Sex and City?
Speaker 1: When did you get the script? What did you think? So?
Speaker 2: Okay, so again, as I think you've talked a tiny
Speaker 2: bit about so when the when the show first started,
Speaker 2: the premise was that we were going to really as
Speaker 2: a launch, you know, come from her column, and the
Speaker 2: people she was writing about would be kind of like
Speaker 2: the first episode starts with the main characters like, we're
Speaker 2: not anywhere in sight, right, it's the woman she's talking about, right,
Speaker 2: this horrible thing happened to So when I first read
Speaker 2: the script, they asked me to read for Carrie, as
Speaker 2: I think they asked you to read for Carrie.
Speaker 1: I did not know this.
Speaker 2: Yes, they asked me to read for Carrie, right, And
Speaker 2: then I did and they were like, yeah, not so much.
Speaker 2: But I did not tend to be very proactive about
Speaker 2: these things, but for me, because I was like thirty one,
Speaker 2: I want to say, and I had been acting literally
Speaker 2: for twenty years at that point and a lot of
Speaker 2: success and a lot of but I was you know,
Speaker 2: when I first started acting, I was a child and
Speaker 2: I was in school, so I was very like, I
Speaker 2: only work in New York, right, So this show in
Speaker 2: New York was like unheard us.
Speaker 1: Unheard us. Right.
Speaker 2: We had Cosby, I think we had Kate and Ally
Speaker 2: for a while, we had a we had law and order.
Speaker 2: We used to have the equalizer like we had, but
Speaker 2: you know, but it was slim. I guess, yes, and
Speaker 2: not all those shows were on at the same time.
Speaker 2: Those were like the things that we had. So I
Speaker 2: did call my manager and I guess she was my
Speaker 2: agent at the time, Emily. Emily, and I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: they don't want me for Carrie. No one's really surprised here,
Speaker 2: But there's like seven women on that show. Couldn't I
Speaker 2: get one of them? Because it didn't seem like there
Speaker 2: were four. It seemed true. It seemed because with these
Speaker 2: other characters at least in the pilot were like central
Speaker 2: and then that we had all those testimony from women
Speaker 2: on the street, and it seemed like a larger group
Speaker 2: of women. But even had there been four, maybe I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been so optimistic. But I was like, can't, like,
Speaker 2: I can get one of those? I get one of those. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so they said they'd like me to come back
Speaker 2: and read from Miranda.
Speaker 1: And is this just casting directors at this point, like
Speaker 1: Billy Hopkins carry Barton.
Speaker 2: I think I don't remember, but I would assume so,
Speaker 2: But I don't, like, you didn't know Darren, I didn't.
Speaker 1: Know Darren at all.
Speaker 2: So I went in and at some point maybe it
Speaker 2: was the first time I went in for Miranda after
Speaker 2: so it was like the second audition maybe, and my
Speaker 2: Emily said to me gently but clearly, she said, maybe
Speaker 2: put on little lipstick, maybe you.
Speaker 1: Could comb your hair. I was like, I'll try, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try. I love it, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1: So then they really liked me. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: an endless saga. I mean, I think you said yours
Speaker 1: was like a matter of we. I mean my mind
Speaker 1: was months and months and months, and it wasn't like
Speaker 1: I was endlessly auditioning. I think I auditioned. They really
Speaker 1: liked me, and then I think they moved.
Speaker 2: Me on to like testing, right, So I tested right
Speaker 2: here in New York, here in New York, and I
Speaker 2: think I was one of the very early people that tested.
Speaker 1: Did they know that Sirica was potentially carry yet? I
Speaker 1: don't remember.
Speaker 2: So I auditioned and uh that you know, nothing happened,
Speaker 2: and like they my contract lapsed.
Speaker 1: So I was basically right. I mean it went on
Speaker 1: for months wow, And Emily would call and say what's
Speaker 1: going on, and they would say, we haven't found anyone
Speaker 1: we like better yet. Oh gosh, that's painful.
Speaker 2: And I think and I can't. Oh, it's so terrible
Speaker 2: that I can't remember this at this point. But I
Speaker 2: had auditioned. I had never you know, gone out to
Speaker 2: LA to test for things, but I did, maybe the
Speaker 2: previous year or something. And I tested for a lot
Speaker 2: of things and I didn't get. I tested for like
Speaker 2: the Best Friend on Ally McBeal, and I tested for
Speaker 2: a thing like a thing where I was a nun
Speaker 2: like in the name of the Father. And I tested
Speaker 2: for the Fargo Woman in Fargo, which was then made
Speaker 2: many years later.
Speaker 1: Wow, And I didn't get any of them.
Speaker 2: And I remember Becky and Baker, who actually ended up
Speaker 2: playing my sister briefly in the show, said that means
Speaker 2: you're very close if you keep almost getting these, you know,
Speaker 2: but you don't get like, don't think about like I
Speaker 2: didn't get it.
Speaker 1: I didn't get it, Like you're close. No, she's right,
Speaker 1: that's so good.
Speaker 2: Anyway, months and months and months went by, and it
Speaker 2: was like, you know, and every day Emily would call,
Speaker 2: not every day, but she would call, and they would say,
Speaker 2: we still haven't found anyone.
Speaker 1: Were like Matka. So then there was a pilot presentation.
Speaker 1: Do you know what that? Yes?
Speaker 2: Right, So a pilot presentation is not like a real pilot,
Speaker 2: it's like they do it live. It's very like are
Speaker 2: most right? And they had some pilot presentation they were
Speaker 2: doing that shot in La There were some okay people
Speaker 2: in it, I can't remember now, and they had a
Speaker 2: part for me, and it was an okay part. It
Speaker 2: wasn't a great part, but they were like, we just
Speaker 2: want her and if she'll just come and test, we'll
Speaker 2: just go right into production, like there's no one else's auditioning.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: So I wasn't really that interested, but I was like,
Speaker 2: it's money, and I actually did need some money at
Speaker 2: that points.
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, so. But it was pass over a week, okay,
Speaker 1: and I was thro my boyfriend Danny and I the
Speaker 1: father of my first two kids. We were throwing a
Speaker 1: sador for his family.
Speaker 2: I've been to, right, and so it was like a
Speaker 2: big you know, and we've been planning it for a
Speaker 2: while and so I think passover was like on a
Speaker 2: Wednesday that year, and I was like, but I don't
Speaker 2: want to miss the satyr, so I so they let
Speaker 2: me fly out the idea of so going to fly
Speaker 2: out Friday morning or Thursday night. I was going to
Speaker 2: test and we were going to go right into the
Speaker 2: first read through whatever.
Speaker 1: Wow, And I was like adamant that I want to
Speaker 1: do this thing.
Speaker 2: So then it was like passover and Emily, my manager,
Speaker 2: spent my agent. Then I called them, I think, oh oh,
Speaker 2: like every hour, oh what, and she would give them account.
Speaker 2: She would be like, you're gonna lose because I think
Speaker 2: the next morning maybe I got to the flight WITHO
Speaker 2: maybe Thursday, and she said, you're gonna lose her in
Speaker 2: twenty two hours. Wow, you're gonna lose her in seventeen hours.
Speaker 2: You're gonna lose her in ten hours.
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Right, because as soon as I.
Speaker 2: Get on that planet, right And at one point she
Speaker 2: actually apparently broke down and cried on the phone with them,
Speaker 2: like what are you doing? This is the perfect person
Speaker 2: for the part.
Speaker 1: You love her. You've looked for months, you haven't found
Speaker 1: anybody better, Come on, yeah, pull the trigger, Emily. I know.
Speaker 2: And at like and like literally literally during the Satyr,
Speaker 2: at like nine o'clock at night, my phone rings and
Speaker 2: Emily's like, I got it.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: I never heard this story right, and it was and
Speaker 2: it was, but it was literally from the time I tested.
Speaker 1: I mean it was months. Wow, it was months. Wow.
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. It's amazing. And so in your
Speaker 1: in your like gut or your heart or whatever, did
Speaker 1: you feel connected like yes, I want to do this,
Speaker 1: like this is amazing or did you just be like.
Speaker 2: Ah, I felt like it felt like the Holy Grail,
Speaker 2: it really. I mean, we didn't know what would happen
Speaker 2: with the show, but it was so interesting and it
Speaker 2: was so clever and it was all actually about something, right.
Speaker 2: I felt the same way, right, yeah, but then there
Speaker 2: was like all this sex in It was like weird,
Speaker 2: know right, right, but but it was so different. It
Speaker 2: was so different. It was so different but also weirdly
Speaker 2: for me, for people who this is the main thing
Speaker 2: they know me from. Again, I had been acting for
Speaker 2: twenty years at this point, and I had never played
Speaker 2: anything remotely like like I was a person I for
Speaker 2: a lot of my early life, I had long blonde hair,
Speaker 2: and I played a lot of you know, very easygoing, shy,
Speaker 2: wallflowery kind of insecure people, powered children, waves waves for days,
Speaker 2: you know, and so to play this woman, and and
Speaker 2: and I had been nominated for a Tony a couple
Speaker 2: of years earlier, when I was doing a play called Indiscretions,
Speaker 2: which was Jude Laws New York debut, and I was
Speaker 2: wearing a wig and we were ran for many many months,
Speaker 2: and I got nominated for a Tony. And the guy
Speaker 2: who did my hair said, why don't we cut all
Speaker 2: your hair off and.
Speaker 1: Dye it red?
Speaker 2: Just as like a really a thing. And it was
Speaker 2: fine because I wore a wig, so it didn't matter
Speaker 2: what my hair was like. So then so I was blonde,
Speaker 2: Kim was blonde, Sarah was blonde. You were the only
Speaker 2: non blonde. So they came to me and they said,
Speaker 2: we got too many blonde would you We've seen these
Speaker 2: photos of you from a few years back with this
Speaker 2: red hair.
Speaker 1: Would you dye your hair red? So yeah, But so
Speaker 1: that's how that happened. So in every way.
Speaker 3: It was such a it was like such a traparture,
Speaker 3: such a departure, and you love that, and I was great,
Speaker 3: It was great, but it felt like, you know, a
Speaker 3: character that had like not a lot to do with.
Speaker 1: Well, And I mean, in some ways that's true, and
Speaker 1: and in some ways it's not nice.
Speaker 2: People would ask me, you know, are you how are
Speaker 2: you like Mary? And I would always say we both
Speaker 2: feel confident about our brains.
Speaker 1: But that's kind of.
Speaker 2: Where it ends, because like I was, I was in
Speaker 2: a long term relationship, I had a child, I was
Speaker 2: incredibly domestic. I was I'm very domestic, like all the
Speaker 2: things that Miranda has no patients for it, right, those.
Speaker 1: Were garbage exactly right, right, right, So so when you
Speaker 1: took it on, like, remember, I mean you have these
Speaker 1: kind of aggressive power suits and whatnot. In the beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, like what did you think?
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought, I have these really good jokes,
Speaker 2: which is great, and I have a really strong character.
Speaker 1: Right, She's like I understood who she.
Speaker 2: Was clearly, and I was really you know, poor Pat Field,
Speaker 2: who you know, does the clothes. I was really concerned
Speaker 2: with trying to look like one of those women would
Speaker 2: really look, which was not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really tortured.
Speaker 2: It was not Pat's favorite, but we reached it, you know,
Speaker 2: did and it's you know, I mean, do you remember
Speaker 2: how in the very beginning, because we would have all
Speaker 2: those coffee shop scenes, right, and we tried so hard
Speaker 2: to make them real, and yes, constantly not just eating,
Speaker 2: but like reaching for things like right and.
Speaker 1: Looking away, like.
Speaker 2: Just trying to have as much. So I was really
Speaker 2: kind of focused on that, like have as much sort
Speaker 2: of real behavior, and the clothes and the sort of
Speaker 2: like the Miranda armor of like the like the jewelry
Speaker 2: was very like silver and spiky and like it.
Speaker 1: Was like armor. Definitely, definitely, definitely. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that one I watched myself too. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of things, but one of the things
Speaker 1: I do think, because I had come from Melrose, you
Speaker 1: had to like hold still because they were going to
Speaker 1: do this super close up right and just stare at
Speaker 1: the other person. And I'm always like, I'm you barely
Speaker 1: see my face for like the first couple episodes or whatever,
Speaker 1: because I'm just working so hard to be present, be
Speaker 1: really you know, follow your lead and follow Sara Jiska
Speaker 1: and Kim, and you know, Kim's doing her own thing,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like super interesting to look back on.
Speaker 1: And I do remember thinking, you know, like this is different,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's just his own animal, right, And
Speaker 1: you know I knew Sarah. Sarah and I knew each
Speaker 1: other quite well.
Speaker 2: We'd work together a bunch of times, and we were
Speaker 2: always auditioning for the same parts and stuff when we
Speaker 2: were kids. And Kim I knew a little bit. I'd
Speaker 2: seen her in a few things. But also I think
Speaker 2: we had auditioned for a production of Missus Julie that
Speaker 2: we were both. I think she got it and ended
Speaker 2: up doing it.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I feel like she came to see me in
Speaker 2: something and I met her backstay. So I had some sense.
Speaker 2: I don't know this, I had some sense of Kim,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know who you were, but I looked
Speaker 2: at the way you spelled your first name with.
Speaker 1: An eye, which is unusual.
Speaker 2: Two eyes, yes, and I basically I decided you were
Speaker 2: Kristin Scott Thomas.
Speaker 1: Wow, well, thank you. I was like, it must be
Speaker 1: christ Kristen, that must be Christens. It must have been
Speaker 1: really disappointed. I didn't really know who Christin Scott Thomas
Speaker 1: was at that time. British. Yeah, yes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's adorable that you thought you were going to do
Speaker 1: the pilot of Sex and City with Kristin Scott Thomas.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wish I was Kristin Scott Thomas. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't wish you were. You don't know.
Speaker 4: I glad, thank you baby.
Speaker 1: So do you remember the read through? No, me neither.
Speaker 1: I remember that. There's a thing that I remember about you,
Speaker 1: and I guess it was the way through. I just
Speaker 1: remembered some stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that we did it at the market, okay.
Speaker 1: Chelsea Chelsea Market. Wow.
Speaker 2: And I remember Sarah came in and she had just
Speaker 2: gotten married. She had just gotten married, and I and
Speaker 2: others congratulated her because she had just gotten married, and
Speaker 2: I just they must have been scouting around there, which
Speaker 2: is why we did it at Chelsea Market.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't even know that. I remember.
Speaker 2: I remember Chelsea Market, and I remember Sarah coming in
Speaker 2: having just gotten married.
Speaker 1: That's nice. This is what I remember. You had like
Speaker 1: a notebook with your script inning, because you know, you're
Speaker 1: very professional, and on the front of the notebook was
Speaker 1: a little baby picture of Sam and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: is that your baby? You were like yeah, And I
Speaker 1: was like, aren't you worried to you know, not be
Speaker 1: at work, you know, not to not to be home
Speaker 1: And you were like now, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I was just very impressed, very impressed. You're like it'll
Speaker 1: be fine. I was like, oh my gosh, amazing, but
Speaker 1: I didn't remember the bigger picture. Sarah Winter remembers the
Speaker 1: bigger picture of the read through super interesting. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because apparently there was a Kennedy there. I can't remember
Speaker 1: his first name. He was going to play that part,
Speaker 1: which part her guy, Sarah Winter's guy in the beginning
Speaker 1: who goes her? And then I guess something happened he
Speaker 1: got cold feet? Who knows? Who knows? Lawford? Lawford was
Speaker 1: his name? Peter, Yes, yes, I know, super fascinating. Don't
Speaker 1: remember that. I remember that, Okay, okay, okay, I had
Speaker 1: not remembered. She remembers Darren coming in and me talking
Speaker 1: to Darren because I knew him from LA. I didn't
Speaker 1: really know the rest of you, you know, I had
Speaker 1: just seen all of you. Harry Barry name. I keep saying,
Speaker 1: oh my, oh my god, where is Barry? I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was a big part of it all. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was the Melfie. We didn't have Melfie. I didn't
Speaker 1: have Melfie. Oh and do we have Jane Rabb yet?
Speaker 1: I think we know not. In the pilot, we had
Speaker 1: the Miss three woman who gave me the contract to
Speaker 1: sign where I would have been a recurring who you
Speaker 1: know doesn't have a fond place in my memory. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's not her fault, but and I don't know
Speaker 1: her name. But did you know about that? Did I
Speaker 1: tell you about that at the time? You told me
Speaker 1: about it? I think you did tell me about it
Speaker 1: at the time. I think you might be the only
Speaker 1: one because I really tried to keep his secret. Michael
Speaker 1: Patrick didn't even know right.
Speaker 2: I think you did amazing that you told me right away,
Speaker 2: but I think sometime during the first season you told me.
Speaker 1: Because it really it really like Michael was Michael. Michael
Speaker 1: talked really interestingly about his beginnings and how he didn't
Speaker 1: know how to write Charlotte. He was like, Wow, that
Speaker 1: one I don't know, you know, which I understand because
Speaker 1: in the book, she's not really very like she did
Speaker 1: blushed out. Yeah, she's not flushed. She doesn't really make
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. She's just a little different. You don't, like,
Speaker 1: she takes drugs and goes rollerskating like it's weird. You know,
Speaker 1: You're like, who is that one? You know? And I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, really feel like I've got to figure her out,
Speaker 1: and you know, there was some stress about like they
Speaker 1: wanted me to have short hair. I wanted to have
Speaker 1: long hair. Pat was trying to put me in these clothes.
Speaker 1: I was like, what are those clothes? You know, which
Speaker 1: was I think not uncommon for us. I mean, Sara
Speaker 1: Jessica was in sync with Pap, but the rest of
Speaker 1: us were like, what it's happening. So that was a
Speaker 1: process obviously, but also I think Charlotte had to be developed,
Speaker 1: and that was you know, luckily happened over time, but
Speaker 1: definitely was not true in the beginning. And for me inside,
Speaker 1: I had this sense of, oh, you know, someone doesn't
Speaker 1: know if I'm important here right right? I didn't know
Speaker 1: who that was, right, you know, if it was like HBO,
Speaker 1: because we didn't really know Strauss at that point. We
Speaker 1: didn't know Carolyn. No, we didn't know anybody right right.
Speaker 1: We were just like you knew Darren. I knew Darren,
Speaker 1: which was great, but also Darren was, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to create this thing like do you remember one time
Speaker 1: he came down and he was like, you guys have
Speaker 1: to be funnier and we were like, really too, kind
Speaker 1: of from that and then he was like and then
Speaker 1: the next week i'd have seen in Sir Jessica's house.
Speaker 1: I think. So when libs like something in the first
Speaker 1: episode and we had to add lib what we felt
Speaker 1: insecure about, right. I remember if I said my neck yes,
Speaker 1: and I said my thighs yes. It was the only
Speaker 1: time there ever Ye said her nose right, And I
Speaker 1: remember what Kim said, she doesn't because Samantha's not insecure
Speaker 1: about anything. Yes, But it was like our only time
Speaker 1: they ever asked us to add lib right. That was
Speaker 1: the end of that right right, right, right, right right.
Speaker 1: But it was very sweet because they didn't want to
Speaker 1: write anything that would upset us, which was nice.
Speaker 2: But I remember they wouldn't want to say what you
Speaker 2: must feel terrible about your life, and you'd be like,
Speaker 2: that's my best thing.
Speaker 1: Totally, totally, totally. But then I also remember a different
Speaker 1: week when he come down. Darren would come down and
Speaker 1: he'd be like, you know, everyone's got to be sexier,
Speaker 1: You've got to be sexier. And I would be like me,
Speaker 1: like what like how like this totally like just low cut.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, it was bizarre, but I just
Speaker 1: feel I remember just not knowing, you know, what our
Speaker 1: aisle was. You know what our goal was kind of
Speaker 1: or who we were. But then when I look back
Speaker 1: on it, which having not watched it for you know,
Speaker 1: eight million years, we're very good. We are very good.
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of amazing, like they have married pigs.
Speaker 1: Everything is there. Yeah, you know, like we're mean in
Speaker 1: terms of our characters, you mean or not not not
Speaker 1: they're not fully fleshed out, but like the the energy,
Speaker 1: the GISTs. You know, we're at that scene with the
Speaker 1: Pepper Mail Do you remember that scene? I do? It
Speaker 1: was long with with what's his name? Sun Rene Obershon
Speaker 1: was Sun, Yes, Remi obersion was yes, Yes, good memories
Speaker 1: and impressive. You told me you didn't remember anything. That's
Speaker 1: not true, you know in that peppermil had come in
Speaker 1: the right time. That was like our first real true
Speaker 1: coffee shop. Really, I mean, there's there's one in the pilot,
Speaker 1: but we're at the Chinese restaurant right right, right, right
Speaker 1: right right, very brief.
Speaker 2: Oh, but so only at the Chinese restaurant. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: was that Where was that? Remember there was that diner?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: On Long Island City? And when what episode is that?
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like Skipper goes there with Carrie.
Speaker 1: So someone goes there with Gary and I'm like, there's
Speaker 1: a diner. There's a diner that we use. That's a
Speaker 1: real diner Stanford, remember the place. They would like put
Speaker 1: us in the van and drive us over there. And
Speaker 1: it was kind of not the cleanest I don't want
Speaker 1: to say anything, right.
Speaker 2: We were like, oh, there's very interesting tile on the walls.
Speaker 1: Very I mean ugly would be a word. Ugly would
Speaker 1: be a word.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That didn't last long. It didn't last long at all.
Speaker 1: But the other thing I think when I look back
Speaker 1: on these early episodes is to me, New York looks
Speaker 1: so different. It looks like it's the eighties, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like it's like and the cars and
Speaker 1: like in this particular in the episode twenty something Guys
Speaker 1: or Value of the twenty something Guys, you know, we
Speaker 1: go to these bars right like downstairs and they're just
Speaker 1: like nothing. They're just like a dark room right in
Speaker 1: the basement. It's so eighties. Yeah, so interesting to me.
Speaker 1: I don't really remember it, Like I don't know where
Speaker 1: we are. I have no idea, no memory of that, right,
Speaker 1: And Charlotte doesn't really get to go very often, like
Speaker 1: the first, you guys are in chaos that can't remember chaos.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a real place or not.
Speaker 1: I don't think probably in the pilot. Yeah, but you're there.
Speaker 1: That's when Skipper comes and you push him up up
Speaker 1: against the wall. It's so good, Right, that's a pilot.
Speaker 1: I think it's excellent, excellent, But I'm not there. I'm
Speaker 1: with that dude up on the stairs of the met right, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: just thinking I'm on like the perfect date. And then
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, has sex with Samantha. I know, poor
Speaker 1: Charlotte's mess. So wait, let's get back to you. Let's
Speaker 1: get back to you. So we start the pilot. You
Speaker 1: you did feel like it was the holy Grail. So
Speaker 1: you had a sense that it was amazing, well for
Speaker 1: me because I was at a point like I had
Speaker 1: a kid and like an uh like I just bought
Speaker 1: an apartment, and like I needed to earn some money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like and and so much so that after literally twenty
Speaker 1: years of saying I will not audition for anything that
Speaker 1: shoots in la you know, like a long term or
Speaker 1: even really sure you know, yeah, I was like, get
Speaker 1: me a TV show, and it was like, here's a
Speaker 1: TV show here. Wow, that's so great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so I did feel like it was
Speaker 2: the holy Grail.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And when we actually did the pilot, did
Speaker 1: you feel like wow, wow, wow or did you feel like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. I always thought it was all great.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was all great.
Speaker 2: You know, I thought, how am I gonna be this like,
Speaker 2: you know, sexy person that's like going on all these
Speaker 2: like never dated, I had like long term relationship.
Speaker 1: I never remember you saying this, Yeah right. I also
Speaker 1: remember you saying I never had like girlfriends where we
Speaker 1: would like go around and kind of like be powerful like.
Speaker 2: This or flirty flirty right, my my my girlfriends. Right,
Speaker 2: we're not ever out on the prowl, and we never were.
Speaker 2: We're like my friends from h school. We like hang
Speaker 2: out with the boys in our high school.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, as I do. It was
Speaker 1: not like we'd go and meet strangers and go to
Speaker 1: bed with them. I know, I know, I know. It's
Speaker 1: super interesting to look at the beginning episodes, like there's
Speaker 1: a you know, like a it's very sex positive, which
Speaker 1: is wonderful before we ever called it that, but also
Speaker 1: like an openness like a you know, Everyone's not everyone.
Speaker 1: I guess Charlotte's not, but like Carrie especially like a
Speaker 1: value of the twins something guys, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, so remember there was all this stuff. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've spoken about this yet, but there was
Speaker 2: all this stuff.
Speaker 1: There was this backlash.
Speaker 2: Where people were sort of some people were like horrified, right,
Speaker 2: and said, these aren't women, right, women don't act like this,
Speaker 2: women don't talk like this, women don't have this kind
Speaker 2: of lack of inhibition and lack of sentimental romantic no necessity.
Speaker 1: Right, these are gay men disguised. If you remember this,
Speaker 1: it was great and trouble right, it was very annoying.
Speaker 2: And I also remember, and I don't remember what season
Speaker 2: it was, where we had a reporter like, we're all
Speaker 2: four of us were talking to this person on time
Speaker 2: and the reporter said, do you think this is a
Speaker 2: feminist show? And all four of us basically almost took
Speaker 2: that person's head off. We were like, well, of course
Speaker 2: it's a feminist show. What's wrong with you? Yes, we're
Speaker 2: all feminists. It's a feminist show. What would it be
Speaker 2: if it wasn't a feminist show? Because we're wearing lipstick
Speaker 2: and high heels. It's not a feminist show. What's wrong
Speaker 2: with You?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But I do think that that also reminds me
Speaker 1: of the different times, you know, and the fact that
Speaker 1: we were not there was no blueprint for us, you know,
Speaker 1: and and that in some ways is I think this
Speaker 1: kind of magic about us coming together and HBO allowing
Speaker 1: us to find ourselves and then also being able to
Speaker 1: do the movies and then also being able to do
Speaker 1: and just like that, I mean, like there is no blueprint,
Speaker 1: there is nothing else.
Speaker 2: But you know what, it's really funny for me because,
Speaker 2: as I said, I started acting when I was like
Speaker 2: eleven twelve, and one of the very first things that
Speaker 2: I did was this movie All Little Darlings, which is
Speaker 2: starring Tatum O'Neill and Christy McNicol. And then there are
Speaker 2: six of us who aren't those two people.
Speaker 1: So they're eight.
Speaker 2: Young women amazing, and we're all like, we're all supposed
Speaker 2: to be like mid teens, I would say, and some
Speaker 2: of us like me or twelve as I'm tall, and
Speaker 2: other people are like eighteen, but they're playing fifteen whatever.
Speaker 1: We're all playing like yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's about two girls who don't like each other
Speaker 2: at summer camp and somebody starts a bet to see
Speaker 2: which one of them can lose their virginity first. Wow,
Speaker 2: And all the rest of us line up with one
Speaker 2: or the other and there's lots of betting on it,
Speaker 2: and who camp.
Speaker 1: Right gets involved.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: And this was a very popular, successful movie that it's like,
Speaker 2: very dear to a lot of people's hearts. But when
Speaker 2: it came out, I remember one review that started, now
Speaker 2: here's a disgusting idea for a movie, right, Critics were horrified,
Speaker 2: And this was like literally twenty years later, and it
Speaker 2: was I was like, it was deja vue for me.
Speaker 2: It was like, here are women who are talking about
Speaker 2: sex and the possibilities of sex with their female friends
Speaker 2: and then going out and assertively pursuing it. And audiences
Speaker 2: are like, wow, cool and critics are.
Speaker 1: Like, ew, so crazy. It's but I.
Speaker 2: Mean I think that that's I mean, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a show that women and gay men have always particularly
Speaker 2: you know, embraced. But we would hear again and again
Speaker 2: and again. Was first on was like the men want
Speaker 2: to watch it too, and the girlfriends get them to
Speaker 2: watch it, or the wives get them to watch it,
Speaker 2: and then they're fascinated and they love it and they're entertained.
Speaker 2: But also then it sparks all these conversations about this
Speaker 2: semi taboo stuff that maybe if you're dating somebody you
Speaker 2: wouldn't talk about it because you'd be shy or something,
Speaker 2: but it's happening.
Speaker 1: In the episode. So it's a perfect right, right, like
Speaker 1: the up the butt stuff in the right. Of course,
Speaker 1: everyone likes to say all the things that embarrass me.
Speaker 1: But yes, very good example. And also such a fun
Speaker 1: fun memory, so great, such a great memory and such
Speaker 1: a funny I mean, now that I look back on it,
Speaker 1: which I didn't really compute this or whatever. That's really
Speaker 1: my first storyline, like where it's like a beginning, middle,
Speaker 1: and end right, like Carrie's like, you know, and then
Speaker 1: Charlotte has a new boyfriend and we see him and
Speaker 1: I'm like, did I tell you it wants to buy
Speaker 1: a painting, and you guys are like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: And then we do that scene. No, then we do
Speaker 1: the seat then a caller right, and she's like, oh, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: I got to run out of the house, right, And
Speaker 1: I'm like she's like, I'll be right there. And then
Speaker 1: we're in that big cab. Do you remember it was
Speaker 1: like a nineteen seventies cab and Alice in the director
Speaker 1: and Maurice who's French, the DP who I could never
Speaker 1: say her name. Right, they're in the front seat. Do
Speaker 1: you remember this with the handhad They're in the front
Speaker 1: seat like on the floor. That's how big the cab
Speaker 1: was that they could do that, and they would like
Speaker 1: pop their heads up and give us direction as we're
Speaker 1: driving around, then pop back down. And then we added
Speaker 1: you guys. And I remember being so fun but also
Speaker 1: being so even just like mortified to say the words
Speaker 1: out loud. Yeah that I kept messing it up, like
Speaker 1: I can't remember that say the words because the first
Speaker 1: time I say it is just sir, Jessica with me, right,
Speaker 1: it's just carry with me, And I had so not
Speaker 1: said it in rehearsal. Do you remember how we used
Speaker 1: to run our lines all the time, which I told
Speaker 1: Michael Michaels like I didn't know this. I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: we were so scared that we weren't gonna talk fast
Speaker 1: enough for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at least I was right. So we
Speaker 1: remember we were in the make Taylor just running, running, running, running, running.
Speaker 1: Do you remember this? Did they have us do that?
Speaker 1: Did they have us watch some like his Gal Friday
Speaker 1: or something? I think you did, And I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone told us to. I know, I think that was
Speaker 1: your creative you know, thought process, right. And also I
Speaker 1: was I told you I was going to tell you this.
Speaker 1: I do think this is when you started saying to
Speaker 1: me quietly like, not my medium, not my medium, because
Speaker 1: we'd be in some complex thing where they'd say like,
Speaker 1: and then you find the lens, and then you move
Speaker 1: forward and you find the lens.
Speaker 2: And you just be like, not my media, right, And
Speaker 2: I'd be like, it is getting the mark, finding the lens, continuity.
Speaker 1: These have never been my strong suits. Well they are now.
Speaker 1: Well that's very kind, it's true. But number two, I mean,
Speaker 1: first of all, I see those early episodes. You're like
Speaker 1: spot On, I mean, you're amazing, So you know some
Speaker 1: of it, I think it's just your own mind. But
Speaker 1: I also think also it is obviously a very different experience.
Speaker 1: Doing a show is a very different experience than even
Speaker 1: just a film. You know, Well, it's right, It's it's
Speaker 1: not like one long arc.
Speaker 2: It's like every week or every two weeks or whatever
Speaker 2: it was, we got a new script and new things happened.
Speaker 1: Definitely, new things happened. Also, we film a lot quicker,
Speaker 1: especially back then. I remember we would film like so
Speaker 1: many scenes in a day, and it was that was
Speaker 1: partly why it was so complicated, right because we couldn't
Speaker 1: like stop, like now now it and just like that
Speaker 1: we do we take some time, you know, to you know,
Speaker 1: do the singles and whatever. But back then we were
Speaker 1: like on the go. Do you remember they used to
Speaker 1: like wheel those huge lights down the street, you know,
Speaker 1: from one location to the other. Like it was kind
Speaker 1: of amazing to think about, like gorilla filmmaking a little bit.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, in such crazy hours, like crazy hour,
Speaker 2: never less than fifteen hours, often seventeen eighteen hours until
Speaker 2: the same came up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I talked about it a little bit like back
Speaker 1: then we felt like we we shouldn't say that. Do
Speaker 1: you remember, like it was so long, right, like because
Speaker 1: I remember how we shouldn't complain, Yeah, we should we
Speaker 1: shouldn't complain, Yeah, because remember how people just come up
Speaker 1: and be like it is so much fun. Like once
Speaker 1: it started to kind of you know, take off, and
Speaker 1: we'd be like yes, like as we're like, you know, fainting,
Speaker 1: you know, as we're just so tired, right, But we
Speaker 1: couldn't really say that. We thought our feet, yes, and
Speaker 1: our feet. I mean, you know, I told them the story.
Speaker 1: I had the bigger sized shoes for the weekend. My
Speaker 1: tennis shoes were bigger so that I could like let
Speaker 1: my little swollen feet rest. Yeah, because remember how we
Speaker 1: would film till the sun rose and then start at
Speaker 1: five am on Monday. You had this tiny little window
Speaker 1: and you had a whole life. It was I think
Speaker 1: eight months when we did the pilot. Exactly how did
Speaker 1: you do that? Well? I don't know. I mean the pilot.
Speaker 2: What I think of is when we were getting ready,
Speaker 2: when we've been picked up and we were getting ready
Speaker 2: to do the second episode, right, the first episode of
Speaker 2: our first season.
Speaker 1: Do you remember this? They so we shot in Silver Cup,
Speaker 1: which is in Long Island City, and all of us
Speaker 1: were living in Manhattan, right, I mean, Kristen had an
Speaker 1: apartment in Manhattan, and they decided that we were going
Speaker 1: to take the subway to work.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, do you remember that. It was like,
Speaker 5: we're not going to pick you all up. You have
Speaker 5: to get here on your own. And so I think
Speaker 5: I was coming for fittings or something, coming from.
Speaker 1: Hitting where the where we were in the Where Island
Speaker 1: city at the time.
Speaker 2: Maybe well, this is before Google Maps, right, it is
Speaker 2: a confusing, windy place. And so and my kid at
Speaker 2: that point is I think like it's teen months or something.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how old he is. And my father
Speaker 2: has just died. He has died of like weeks before.
Speaker 2: And my father was living in Mexico. So I don't
Speaker 2: speak Spanish. I've gone down there. My boyfriend was sick.
Speaker 2: I went down there by myself with my kid, not
Speaker 2: speaking Spanish, to try and deal with his not only
Speaker 2: his death. I mean he was cremated, so that wasn't
Speaker 2: a big but you know, his belongings to his finance,
Speaker 2: everything right, And so I came back. I'm coming for
Speaker 2: this fitting where they've Shelley, remember Shelley. Shelley told me
Speaker 2: that I had to take the subway or whatever. And
Speaker 2: so I take my kid strapped to me on the
Speaker 2: subway with all the diaper bags and whatnot, and I
Speaker 2: get off the train in Long Island City and I
Speaker 2: can't find it, and I'm walking around the streets and
Speaker 2: I call Shelley and I'm like, Shelley, I have my
Speaker 2: you know, fifteen month old. My father has just died.
Speaker 2: I'm wandering around. Can someone please just pick me up?
Speaker 2: So I think they gave up on the subway idea.
Speaker 1: I think that must have been somewhere close to me
Speaker 1: trying to also do the same thing with not a child,
Speaker 1: but just my really challenge, you're not. I mean I
Speaker 1: used to live here. It never you know, it's just
Speaker 1: a challenge that I have right in wherever I am.
Speaker 1: It's a challenge. And there was no phones to be doing.
Speaker 1: There was no Google Maps, and there was no maps nothing.
Speaker 1: And I had never in my life even heard of
Speaker 1: Long Island City. I was like, I don't understand, like
Speaker 1: just where are we? I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: It's like a place where you assumed a lot of
Speaker 2: like snuff films, anything could happen. What's happening behind those
Speaker 2: doors exactly?
Speaker 1: So I had gone tried to go to my fitting
Speaker 1: sometime probably like the same day or next day or whatever.
Speaker 1: It was raining, and I'm just wandering, you know, like
Speaker 1: a little lost wet kitten, you know, like help me,
Speaker 1: help me, anyone and then crying, you know, like finally,
Speaker 1: like I think, Shelley, also, I don't even know if
Speaker 1: I'm in longand City, like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like all of it. And then she was like, yes,
Speaker 1: Cynthia had a problem too. I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe you guys should send him. Remember the sixteen seater
Speaker 1: that we did end up spending a lot of time anyway,
Speaker 1: I do remember that. And I was like, if Cynthia
Speaker 1: had a problem, I don't feel so bad, you know.
Speaker 1: But then remember how we both lived on the Upper
Speaker 1: West Side. Yes, and they would pictu us that blocks
Speaker 1: from the blocks from each other, thank god, and they
Speaker 1: would pick us up together, which is really fun. And
Speaker 1: what Cynthia very kindly would run lines with me because
Speaker 1: remember those times when I had those big speeches, yes,
Speaker 1: like like very didactic, like soap boxy, like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get married and I'm going to follow this book and
Speaker 1: I'm so hard and you know, we I talked to
Speaker 1: Michael a little bit about like the word perfect. You know,
Speaker 1: we had to be perfect. We still have to be perfect.
Speaker 1: And comedy is very precise, you know, so I get that,
Speaker 1: but it's sometimes challenging and Cynthia God bless her heart,
Speaker 1: because I live by myself, right, so like you can
Speaker 1: only somewhat do so much work in your own head,
Speaker 1: you know, to a certain extent, and then what would
Speaker 1: happen is We'd get there and I'd get nervous and
Speaker 1: I'd like just freeze up. So on the way down
Speaker 1: town or to Silver Cup or whatever, Cynthia Wood run
Speaker 1: lines with me so sweetly. Really saved myself so much.
Speaker 1: That was fun, and like we were like kids. That's
Speaker 1: the other thing that cracks me up when we watch,
Speaker 1: Like do you I don't know how you think about this,
Speaker 1: but like we look like little children. Well, yes, we're
Speaker 1: very beautiful, but also so I have still you know,
Speaker 1: baby fat no, well I mean from my baby right,
Speaker 1: But also I have literally pimple on my chin like simples.
Speaker 1: Take a look, my guy still have acne. Hysterical. But
Speaker 1: the thing that's so funny is that I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: because I was living in LA before we filmed, right,
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, like, you know, I got to
Speaker 1: get a job because like we don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of time here. You know, this is back when like
Speaker 1: when you were forty, which I don't think you probably
Speaker 1: felt because you were a very theater and theater, thank god,
Speaker 1: goes on forever, but like you had this sense of
Speaker 1: like time is ticking, you've got to like make the
Speaker 1: most of it because you're not going to last long.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that's the thing is like now we
Speaker 2: look like such babies, but at the time that was
Speaker 2: part of the point of the show that we weren't kids.
Speaker 1: I know, that's what's so funny to me. But we were.
Speaker 1: We were like mature women.
Speaker 2: We had these careers and we were at a point
Speaker 2: when you know, Charlotte or other people in previous or
Speaker 2: you know, we're like, why aren't you marriedly getting married?
Speaker 1: Were you going to marry? Absolutely? Actually, and in the
Speaker 1: value of the twenty sething guys, when they cut to
Speaker 1: the guys on the basketball court, which is one of
Speaker 1: the most enjoyable, I know, it's finally like for me,
Speaker 1: that's when the other people talking clicks in right in
Speaker 1: a great way. All these guys and they're not so
Speaker 1: horrible like in the every man is just like horrible, horrible,
Speaker 1: So finally some of them are kind of likable and
Speaker 1: one of them, you know, I think it starts the
Speaker 1: basketball confessionals and he says, you know the great thing
Speaker 1: about women in their thirties is they're just so grateful.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, where we're gonna go, the journey we're
Speaker 1: gonna go on? People? Oh my god? Who would have
Speaker 1: ever thought? Yeah? Right? Yeah? And back then, I remember
Speaker 1: also feeling because when I was auditioning, I would always
Speaker 1: just lie about my age, Like whatever age the character was,
Speaker 1: you'd pick like a year older or a you're younger,
Speaker 1: and that's how old you'd say you were. At least
Speaker 1: that's what I did. Huh. That's what all my friends
Speaker 1: did in La. Wow. So for me, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: thank god, we're playing women are our thirties. I can
Speaker 1: stop lying. You know. It's so exciting, right, Like it
Speaker 1: was such a weight off my mind. And look at us,
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're like little tiny babies. No, little tiny babies.
Speaker 2: But I think I think the you know, how much
Speaker 2: sex we're having and going out and meeting people and
Speaker 2: going out on dates and just picking people up, right,
Speaker 2: there's all that which is different, and it's that it's
Speaker 2: not it's not. I mean, I don't there is really
Speaker 2: nothing to compare us to. I mean, what are you
Speaker 2: going comparis to Charlie's Angels. I mean right, right, No,
Speaker 2: there is a stretch man.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean they don't talk to each other, right,
Speaker 1: I mean then they also don't date. I mean they
Speaker 1: I guess they don't think they shut around, right, But
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing, is like we're having all
Speaker 1: this sex with all these different men that were actively pursuing,
Speaker 1: and we're talking.
Speaker 2: To each other about it, right, It's like we're together.
Speaker 2: It's like Bechdel to the MH degree.
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's what was so so special and amazing
Speaker 1: about it. Now, let's talk about themes. Part of the
Speaker 1: reason I wanted to do Are You a Charlotte was
Speaker 1: because it seems like, I mean, first of all, you
Speaker 1: know Netflix, We're on Netflix now, which is like we
Speaker 1: could never have imagined these things, right, and all these
Speaker 1: younger peop people are finding us, which is so exciting
Speaker 1: and really kind of amazing and wonderful. And the themes
Speaker 1: are still so resonant today. Yes, totally, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of just a testament to our writing, you know, and
Speaker 1: to just the I mean, it was kind of just
Speaker 1: bravery on I guess. Well, but have you talked about
Speaker 1: the thing about the one degree of separation thing about well,
Speaker 1: you know that they had this rule in the writer's room.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 2: You know, fantastical things happen on our show Crazy Zany,
Speaker 2: like wow, cover your mouth, you're so shocked kind of things, right,
Speaker 2: But that they had a rule in the writer's room
Speaker 2: that you could only make a plot line around something
Speaker 2: that had literally happened to you or someone you knew.
Speaker 2: It can be like my friend's dentist's cast. I heard
Speaker 2: this I had one time. Right, it had to be
Speaker 2: you experienced it, or someone that you could get on
Speaker 2: the phone and ask them about it in detail.
Speaker 1: It happened to them.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, I do think that that's one of
Speaker 2: the reasons it really endures, is like it's the stuff
Speaker 2: around it, even though it's it's real, even though it's like, oh.
Speaker 1: My god, can you believe what happened on the show
Speaker 1: last night?
Speaker 2: Right, but it's it's it's real, and people really, you know,
Speaker 2: put them the writers really put themselves in it and
Speaker 2: located the good and bad and funny and whatever say
Speaker 2: things that were happening to right.
Speaker 1: Right right, So true. But when you think back on
Speaker 1: the themes, like what do you think of in terms
Speaker 1: of like Miranda's themes or you know, what stands out
Speaker 1: to you. What do you think of as your favorite
Speaker 1: themes or your favorite relationships or things like that. Hmmm,
Speaker 1: I know it's hard, so so so hmmm.
Speaker 2: I mean I think maybe this is not what you're
Speaker 2: talking about, but I mean, like the overarching theme is,
Speaker 2: obviously we're not sitting by the phone waiting for a
Speaker 2: man to call in and ask us to marry him.
Speaker 1: Right, It's like we possibly Charlotte is well, possibly Charlotte,
Speaker 1: but then she but she's aggressively pursuing it, you know,
Speaker 1: Susa pursuing it, and she and there's part of her
Speaker 1: that that has this marriage goal in mind, but she
Speaker 1: also kind of wants to experiment. And she's certainly more
Speaker 1: experimental than you realize. And sure she really is. And
Speaker 1: I remember, of course we did the thing.
Speaker 2: They had a thing in a magazine about who had
Speaker 2: had the most It was the book.
Speaker 1: It was a book. It was a tell in the
Speaker 1: back of the book. But it wasn't it. It had
Speaker 1: all the sure, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Even before there was a magazine article. You're resting how
Speaker 2: many sex partners each of them they had and that Charlotte, surprisingly,
Speaker 2: I know one had been with Marmon.
Speaker 1: But I also think that is what I love about
Speaker 1: when we think back, And I kind of was aware
Speaker 1: of this at the time because like, for instance, you
Speaker 1: weren't Miranda, right, so you playing Miranda, you brought different
Speaker 1: things to it. You brought kind of some friction to it.
Speaker 1: Sara Jessica is not Carrie, you know, and she didn't
Speaker 1: want to show her body all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: So it created kind of a friction. Like all of
Speaker 1: us being together and being such different people created kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting friction. Charlotte wanted to get married, but
Speaker 1: also being the one who literally has the most you know,
Speaker 1: hookups or whatever. It's interesting, right, Like, it wasn't as
Speaker 1: much as people think that we were archetypes and whatnot,
Speaker 1: which I get right, right, It really was more complex
Speaker 1: than that, and certainly, like the underlying thing as opposed
Speaker 1: to what we were showing, I think created a depth
Speaker 1: and a like a frision kind of right.
Speaker 2: So I feel like in terms of Miranda, obviously she's
Speaker 2: very she's very smart, she's very quippy, she's very cynical,
Speaker 2: she's very driven, she's all about her work, and getting ahead,
Speaker 2: right and competing with men on an equal footing. I'm
Speaker 2: interested in having sex, but she really has thought not
Speaker 2: at all about the idea of marriage or long term monogamy,
Speaker 2: much less children or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Which is so great how it unfolds, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: And so so the fun thing about her has always
Speaker 2: been that she has this really tough, armored exterior, but
Speaker 2: that she has all this fragility side right, And so
Speaker 2: I feel like, for me, the turning point from Miranda was,
Speaker 2: I believe it's Jenny Bick's first episode. That's one of
Speaker 2: our writers, and when she first came on board, she
Speaker 2: wrote the episode where Miranda buys her first apartment.
Speaker 1: That's a good one, right, yeah, And it's like, as
Speaker 1: a single woman, what does that mean? Is that intimidating
Speaker 1: to a man when you when you already own and
Speaker 1: you're not waiting for him to buy something with him
Speaker 1: that you choose together, right, And that Miranda is really
Speaker 1: determined and excited, But then it brings up all of
Speaker 1: these demons for her about what does this mean buying
Speaker 1: this apartment? Does this mean I'll always be alone?
Speaker 2: And she and I'll die alone and like no one
Speaker 2: will know and the cat will eat my face. Right,
Speaker 2: it's so good, it's so great, and she starts to
Speaker 2: have these panic attacks, which.
Speaker 1: Seem very Unmeranda.
Speaker 2: And you know, and in the same way that Michael
Speaker 2: Patrick talks about with Charlotte, Charlotte is a beautiful, intelligent, warm,
Speaker 2: career person who wants to get married. And so Michael
Speaker 2: Patrick says, at a certain point, even though it's about
Speaker 2: single women, we got a let her get married because
Speaker 2: we just can't believe we lost.
Speaker 1: It's incredulous, right, she she want to get married. She's
Speaker 1: gonna get married, right, and then it's not going to
Speaker 1: work out, that's the point. So and the same with Miranda.
Speaker 2: He was like, how much how brittle and bitter can
Speaker 2: we make her? It's like, finally she is gonna just break,
Speaker 2: so we have to Finally.
Speaker 1: I guess it's season two. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: You know, they bring in Steep, right, somebody who is
Speaker 2: like the antidote like to all of the who is
Speaker 2: happy to be the beta to her alpha, right, and
Speaker 2: who is so into her that she doesn't doubt him.
Speaker 2: And it's just he's like he's sexy, but he's also
Speaker 2: just very devoted and it's a. It's a it's a
Speaker 2: place where she can land. That's a wonderful place to be,
Speaker 2: and it's not threatening. He's not competing with her for supremacy,
Speaker 2: and she doesn't feel like you might walk away and
Speaker 2: break her heart.
Speaker 1: Right. Oh, and what a great character. Great character, great character.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, all right. So I could talk
Speaker 1: to Cynthia for many, many hours, as you can tell.
Speaker 1: So we're going to make this into two episodes. You guys,
Speaker 1: please tune in to the next one.