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Speaker 1: Hey that folks. It is Monday, February sixteenth, and we

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Speaker 1: have gotten another video from Savannah Guthrie. And in this one,

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Speaker 1: she is pleading with the possible kidnapper or with whoever

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Speaker 1: knows who that kidnapper is. It is not too late

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing. And with that, welcome to

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Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. Rob. What did you

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Speaker 1: make of and we're going to play it here for you, folks,

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Speaker 1: But what did you make of this video? Maybe compared

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Speaker 1: to some others, and in particular some of the language

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Speaker 1: she used in this one.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think she has tried over these past few

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Speaker 2: weeks to appeal in any way to either yes the

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Speaker 2: kidnapper or someone who knows of the kidnapping or knows

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Speaker 2: who the kidnapper is. They have tried to humanize their mom.

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Speaker 2: They've tried to beg plead, offer to pay money. This

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Speaker 2: time it felt like she was desperate and out of

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Speaker 2: options and exhausted and trying to just appeal to now

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Speaker 2: the humanity of the kidnapper. It's she's taking off all

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Speaker 2: the different ways you could possibly try to convince someone

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Speaker 2: to yes, as she put it, do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: You're right, I didn't think of it. She said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's sick, help us out. In one video another video,

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Speaker 1: she was appealing and saying, yes, we'll pay to your point, whepes,

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Speaker 1: what other option do you have. I said, we'll give

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Speaker 1: you this. I said we'll give you this. Now, all

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Speaker 1: I got left is to try to appeal to you

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Speaker 1: as a decent human being. For a second.

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Speaker 2: That is desperation, yes, because the one before that, remember

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Speaker 2: was the home videos of her mom as a young

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Speaker 2: mother and her siblings as young children. Just everyone remembers

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Speaker 2: those home videos. So saying she's just like us. Please

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Speaker 2: remember your own mother, remember your own childhood. Please please

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Speaker 2: give us our mother back, bring her home.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we are now officially in the third week

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Speaker 1: of the search for Nancy Guthrie. But this video put

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Speaker 1: out yesterday by Savannah on Instagram. It's about a minute

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Speaker 1: fifteen seconds long in which he's making an appeal. Here

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Speaker 1: now is Savannah Guthrie. Apologies for my delay in getting

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Speaker 1: this thing cued up and playing again, total apology you all.

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Speaker 1: I'm hitting play on this thing and it's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to come on and it's been two weeks

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Speaker 3: since our mom was taken, and I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: come on and say that we still have hope and

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Speaker 3: we still believe. And I wanted to.

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Speaker 4: Say to whoever has her or knows where she is,

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Speaker 4: that it's never too late, and you're not lost. We're alone,

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Speaker 4: and it is never too late to do the right thing,

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Speaker 4: and we are here. We believe, and we believe in

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Speaker 4: the essential goodness of every human being, and it's never

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Speaker 4: too late.

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Speaker 1: All I wrote some words in there jumped out at me.

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Speaker 1: This video was put out on the same day that

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Speaker 1: we got word that there is possible new DNA evidence

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Speaker 1: of a glove that was found. We'll get into that

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Speaker 1: in just a moment. But in playing it and hearing it,

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Speaker 1: what jumps out at you there in the language, and

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Speaker 1: she chose to yes.

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Speaker 2: Just what jumps out to me is her emotional fatigue.

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Speaker 2: And even though as you're hearing her say we believe,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like she does. I just I felt incredible.

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Speaker 5: I think that's fair sadness for her.

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Speaker 2: It just in other ones, there was urgency, there was energy,

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Speaker 2: There was there I felt the hope and the desperate

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Speaker 2: need for information. This feels like exhaustion and desperation and

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Speaker 2: and just sadness.

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Speaker 5: The weight of all of this just I felt it.

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Speaker 5: I felt her weight.

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Speaker 1: The words here she used about you're not lost or alone.

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Speaker 1: It almost seemed like she had been talking to someone

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Speaker 1: and is like it's a direct appeal, a reaction to

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Speaker 1: something she knows. I thought that was, like, what does

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Speaker 1: she possibly mean? It sound like she was talking to

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Speaker 1: someone specifically.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that was your take. When I heard that.

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Speaker 2: I thought of her religious leanings. She is a very

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Speaker 2: she's a woman of faith, and yeahweh you are not alone.

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Speaker 5: God is always with you.

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Speaker 2: I felt very religious to me in tone that trying

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Speaker 2: to remind whoever this person is who took their mother

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Speaker 2: that you're not lost, you're not alone, the essential goodness

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Speaker 2: of every human being. It sounded like it had a

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Speaker 2: lot of religious undertones to me.

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Speaker 1: Whoever know, whoever has her or knows where she is now,

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Speaker 1: the knows where she is robes it seems. And again

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Speaker 1: we haven't had a lot, but a lot of notes

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Speaker 1: have been coming in and it seems like they were

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Speaker 1: getting further along with this person claiming to know who

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Speaker 1: the kidnapper is in terms of interactions and back and

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Speaker 1: forth and they were getting with the person who was

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Speaker 1: sending in the actual ransom or alleged ransom emails. So

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Speaker 1: she threw that in there or who knows where she is?

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Speaker 1: Is that fair to sell? Or did you take it

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Speaker 1: the same? It seemed like there was significant back and forth,

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Speaker 1: like we were getting somewhere with the person who was

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Speaker 1: sending the notes to TMZ.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we could only hope that she has some

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Speaker 2: information that maybe she knows and we don't. That there

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Speaker 2: is some validity or credibility to the person writing those

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Speaker 2: notes to TMZ saying I will give up the person

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Speaker 2: who took Nancy Guthrie if I get fifty thousand now

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Speaker 2: and fifty thousand later, So maybe there isn't. That would

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Speaker 2: be amazing if that is true. But I also think

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Speaker 2: any crime that's ever been committed, especially of this magnitude,

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Speaker 2: it's rarely done without someone else knowing, someone else, who

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Speaker 2: that person came home to, who that person acted bizarrely

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Speaker 2: in front of, who had some clothes to clean, or

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Speaker 2: some you know, you always hear about this after the

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Speaker 2: fact either.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes these folks either have roommates, loved ones, best friends.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes they can find it would be hard to believe

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Speaker 2: that someone else close to or around the person who

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Speaker 2: took Nancy Guthrie doesn't know or isn't thinking something's off.

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Speaker 1: And the other point connected to that, Robes, is that

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Speaker 1: most criminals aren't this good at covering their tracks, just

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Speaker 1: not so that would lend itself to your theory. Somebody

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Speaker 1: knows who this guy is. Somebody has to know, and

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the way to go to appeal to the

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Speaker 1: humanity of someone around this person rather than this person.

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Speaker 1: That is a very good point. It seems so improbable,

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Speaker 1: Rogues that nobody noticed this guy being gone overnight from

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Speaker 1: his own home. He was acting strangely the next day

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Speaker 1: or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, can you imagine if you had that information, or

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Speaker 2: you knew, or you were suspicious, I would hope your

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Speaker 2: conscious would conscience would be eating away at you like

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Speaker 2: it every day. You'd feel worse than terrible, and you

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Speaker 2: would feel guilty about even having that knowledge. So she's

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Speaker 2: trying to appeal to that person if that person exists

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Speaker 2: out there who is adjacent to this kidnapping, who can

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Speaker 2: possibly solve the crime.

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Speaker 1: But it's hard to imagine at the same time, Roes

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Speaker 1: that you having that and you know what maybe someone

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Speaker 1: has whoever she's appealing to, has sent in a tip

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Speaker 1: and they're waiting to get through it because it's number

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand in the thirty thousand they got.

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Speaker 5: Haven't you thought about that?

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Speaker 2: All the true true crime stories we have watched and

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Speaker 2: read about and certainly even followed, there's the one tip,

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Speaker 2: but it could be buried in thousands of other tips,

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Speaker 2: and these investigators have to go through each one and

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Speaker 2: treat each one like it could be that tip, the

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Speaker 2: one that breaks the case. That is such a daunting,

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Speaker 2: overwhelming concept. Imagine just you know, you have a couple

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Speaker 2: hundred emails backed up in your inbox.

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Speaker 5: You'd be like, oh my god, I have to go through.

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Speaker 2: All of these, and you might skip important ones as

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Speaker 2: you're trying to go through it all. That's what I

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Speaker 2: was trying to imagine the task being like getting thirteen

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Speaker 2: thousand emails. Now you have to go through all of them,

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Speaker 2: but don't miss the one that actually is the one

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Speaker 2: you have to have or the one you actually need

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Speaker 2: to fine.

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Speaker 1: That's police work, man, and on a high profile case,

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Speaker 1: that is police where you love the tips, but man,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go through all of them. And some well

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Speaker 1: meaning people. Robes are out there saying I think I

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Speaker 1: saw this, I think I saw that, and they're completely wrong,

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Speaker 1: but they're trying to help, and police have to go

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Speaker 1: through every one of them. I don't that's it's it's true,

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Speaker 1: and it's why we're in a third week, and it's

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Speaker 1: why we're in a third week and still don't seem

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Speaker 1: to have too much more than we had on night one.

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Speaker 1: But stay with us because there was a major development

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Speaker 1: in this case having to do with a glove that

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Speaker 1: was found with DNA that is now being tested. All Right,

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Speaker 1: we continue here on Amy and TJ with the developments

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Speaker 1: in the Nancy Guthrie case went missing. Now two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: eighty four year old mother of Today's Show host and

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Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie has been missing again. Robes told us on

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Speaker 1: day one she's got vital medication that if she doesn't

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Speaker 1: take every single day, she could die. And that was

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Speaker 1: fifteen days ago. They told us this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's surreal, because at that time we were thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna this case is going to be cracked imminently.

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Speaker 2: I don't think any of us could have imagined that

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Speaker 2: it would have been going on for this long and

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Speaker 2: still almost no answers. And I saw something really interesting

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Speaker 2: about part of the reason why this case is so

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Speaker 2: different from other cases we've seen where someone goes missing

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Speaker 2: or you're trying to find.

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Speaker 5: A body basically of someone who's been murdered.

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Speaker 2: We're so reliant now, or at least police have become

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Speaker 2: so reliant now on surveillance video. And so that's why

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Speaker 2: we heard early on the PMA County Sheriff saying we

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Speaker 2: need neighbors doorbell cameras, we need and we thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be quick. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: so many different angles. They're going to find that vehicle,

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Speaker 2: they're going to see that person walking on the streets

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Speaker 2: like we saw in Boston. We've just had so many

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Speaker 2: recent crimes we've seen, so might take a couple of days,

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Speaker 2: but once they get those videos, it kind of happens

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly. I didn't realize this, but in the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: that Nancy Guthrie lives, in the zoning laws, just in

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Speaker 2: order to keep it as beautiful and bucolic as it is,

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Speaker 2: you have to have one a one acre property, so

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Speaker 2: they divide properties up acre by acre, so you don't

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Speaker 2: have these small houses all lined up with all these cameras,

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Speaker 2: and the houses have to be set back thirty feet

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Speaker 2: from the road. So that makes a doorbell camera kind

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Speaker 2: of not even that relevant now because it's so set

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Speaker 2: back the idea that it would catch something. It's not

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Speaker 2: like you're in an urban area or even a suburban area.

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Speaker 5: This is so bad rural.

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Speaker 1: You say thirty feet, and plenty, plenty of them are

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Speaker 1: much further than thirty feet. I'm trying to give some

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Speaker 1: kind of a perspective or context for something thirty feet

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Speaker 1: away from your ring camera. Is it going to pick

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Speaker 1: that stuff up at night? Probably not. It's probably just

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Speaker 1: gonna pick up the stuff of activity right around your porch.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's great, and the area is beautiful and

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Speaker 1: that works just in this particular case. They don't need

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Speaker 1: to change laws and this, in this particular case, it's

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Speaker 1: not working. It's not helping. And that's a good point

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Speaker 1: to bring up, Bros. Because the I think about the

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Speaker 1: Brown University shooter, right, how they pieced together his movements

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Speaker 1: based on camera here, camera there. They could track him

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Speaker 1: and they tracked the car. And with so many of

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Speaker 1: these cases we've seen the Ohio. What I can say

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Speaker 1: it off the top of my head. Now cases the

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Speaker 1: Ohio dentists, Yeah, they tracked him, found the car, found

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Speaker 1: and pieced him together literally frame by frame, almost to

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Speaker 1: track his ass back to Illinois. And in this case

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Speaker 1: were like, you can't find it. Why did you not see? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's why, and you're driving down even a car dright.

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Speaker 1: She could have been taken from the front porch to

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Speaker 1: a car driven down that road and not a single

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Speaker 1: camera catches that exactly and looks impossible these days.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm even seeing.

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Speaker 2: Articles pop up about now people reconsidering where they have

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Speaker 2: their elderly or their aging parents and not wanting them Like, yes,

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Speaker 2: you can understand the draw of being in the middle

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Speaker 2: of nature.

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Speaker 5: God, that sounds.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful, But if you're worried about safety of someone that

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Speaker 2: you love, now suddenly these bucolic idyllic settings seem scary

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Speaker 2: and security and not secure because of what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: happening in terms of the investigation after the fact. Now

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Speaker 2: there's no way to even pieces together. You pointed this out,

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Speaker 2: I believe last week also there were ordinances on lighting

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Speaker 2: correct they wanted to be able to see the night sky.

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Speaker 2: This is all about enjoying the nature around and yet

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Speaker 2: now it's steinying the investigation and figuring out what happened

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Speaker 2: to her.

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Speaker 1: That is so crazy. This story continues, and it's just

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Speaker 1: those little elements even add to just are you kidding

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Speaker 1: me kind of elements to this story. We did tell

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Speaker 1: you there was a significant update having to do with

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Speaker 1: a glove that was found. You've been hearing about this glove,

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Speaker 1: but the FBA FBI did come out and say that yes,

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Speaker 1: it in fact appears to match the gloves being worn

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Speaker 1: by their suspect in that ring camera video from the porch.

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Speaker 1: So you see that person with the ski mask on,

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Speaker 1: the backpack on, and gloves on, messing around with the

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Speaker 1: ring camera or hopes they're saying the gloves he's wearing.

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Speaker 1: They believe they found some that match and they have

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Speaker 1: some DNA in it.

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Speaker 2: That's that's significant and hopefully that could at least create

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Speaker 2: some results. Maybe they can match it with the DNA

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Speaker 2: they found in the home see if it's from the

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Speaker 2: same person.

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Speaker 5: But that is very promising.

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Speaker 2: And these gloves were found two miles from Nancy Guthrie's home.

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Speaker 5: These were those gloves that a reporter was along for

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Speaker 5: the ride correct and saw the gloves.

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Speaker 2: So they found a lot of gloves there were like

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Speaker 2: reports of but they said most of them were from

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Speaker 2: investigators actually discarding the gloves.

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Speaker 1: Even that was Is that normal behavior?

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Speaker 2: Would you just throw gloves again, we're talking it is beautiful.

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Speaker 5: No, but I feel like that's not okay.

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Speaker 1: You know what okay you think about litter, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about the investigation. Both of them are reasons not to

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Speaker 1: throw your gloves. That that was weird, wasn't It seems.

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Speaker 5: Like investigated investigating one on one.

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Speaker 2: Don't throw your gloves in the middle of what still

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Speaker 2: could be an active crime scene, because you know, you

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Speaker 2: always go back in the research areas.

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Speaker 5: Why would they discard them?

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Speaker 1: But the number was at least sixteen pairs of gloves

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Speaker 1: have been found, and most of them were discarded from searchers.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they weren't like official searchers, maybe they were, maybe

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Speaker 2: they were neighbors. But still I don't think you would.

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Speaker 2: Probably what I say, you don't want to poop where

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Speaker 2: you eat. I doubt usually if you're from the area,

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Speaker 2: you're very aware of not leaving your mark behind.

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Speaker 1: Again, add another bizarre element to this story, a story

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Speaker 1: that now is in its third week of a search,

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Speaker 1: and I guess Roges, it's fair to say the biggest

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Speaker 1: development was that ring camera video, absolutely that we've seen right,

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Speaker 1: But other than that, the major developments have been fairly

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Speaker 1: few and far between. A few people put in detainment

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Speaker 1: by detained by police at times during investigation, they were

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Speaker 1: all that go. They are not still from what we understand,

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Speaker 1: rope still being looked at. So there is no one

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Speaker 1: right now, and they haven't named the person certainly publicly,

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Speaker 1: but they keep saying they don't have one behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: no suspect, no person of interest.

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Speaker 2: Three weeks in, Wow, we only know that the person

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Speaker 2: they are looking for is five nine to five ten

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Speaker 2: medium build, had that Ozark Trails backpack that was sold.

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Speaker 5: Exclusively at Walmart.

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Speaker 2: I've also seen that they believe the clothing he was

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Speaker 2: wearing was purchased at Walmart as well. And those deadlines

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Speaker 2: that we got from those early ransom notes have all passed,

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Speaker 2: and we did see the gu three siblings take those

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Speaker 2: deadlines seriously. They released videos in conjunction with those deadlines

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Speaker 2: saying we will pay. So here you have a family

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Speaker 2: saying we will pay and silence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't lend itself right. If the point of

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Speaker 1: the kidnapping is ransom and they just told you we'll

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Speaker 1: give you what you want and you don't make the deal,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's other

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Speaker 1: person who claims they know who the kidnapper is, how

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Speaker 1: they're wanting to be paid, and that doesn't make a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of sense either. But that was I think

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Speaker 1: that was legit negotiating that was going on, or it

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Speaker 1: seemed to through tmze story Right now, where is Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like the only hope right now is

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Speaker 2: either a tip that someone finally does the right thing,

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Speaker 2: or this DNA actually leads to some sort of a

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Speaker 2: hit on someone, whether they go through a genealogy website

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Speaker 2: or this person might be in their database.

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Speaker 5: But certainly the DNA that.

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Speaker 2: They found at the home did not match anyone known

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 5: So but that is the biggest lead so far.

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Speaker 2: We will, of course keep you up to date on

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Speaker 2: any new developments. You could always count on us for that,

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Speaker 2: so hit subscribe there on.

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Speaker 5: The right side.

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Speaker 2: I don't say this is often, so I don't really

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Speaker 2: know where It is the subscribe button is.

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Speaker 1: It took me probably a year.

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Speaker 5: It just rolls right off your tongue.

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Speaker 1: Now. Yeah, the top right corner of your Apple podcast,

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Speaker 1: at where you see our show page, there's a little

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Speaker 1: button that says follow click that you can get man.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, you have a script in your hand.

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Speaker 1: It took me a while, but I finally got it down.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully you got that everybody, But thank you as always

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Speaker 2: for listening to us.

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Speaker 5: I made robok alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to

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Speaker 5: you very soon.