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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know stories of things we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer too well. Hi, They're welcome to

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am Steve as always enjoying

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Speaker 1: my co host Deven and today we we've got another

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Speaker 1: Actually it's not another. This is actually a really complex

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Speaker 1: mystery that we're going to go into. This is I

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Speaker 1: would say, this is the first time we've done anything

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Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, and this is I know, this is

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Speaker 1: this is a tough case. I know it made Devon uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Number of times you were not happy researching. I'm not

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Speaker 1: and it usually liked the murder I usually I usually do.

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Speaker 1: I just think there's something about this case as a

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Speaker 1: young female that is, you know, and granted I am

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Speaker 1: not of the similar situation of this case that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about, but just there's something, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I can totally do the like random unsolved kind

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Speaker 1: of mysterious murders, but like when we're talking about something

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Speaker 1: like this, yeah, you know, actually just makes me researching this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys ever watched that show

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Speaker 1: was on for two seasons years ago, twin Peaks, They

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Speaker 1: ever watched that show? I did see some of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's about this bucolic little town up in Washington, and

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Speaker 1: uh and it's like, you know, a little small town.

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Speaker 1: Everything's nice and everything, but then there's just all this

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Speaker 1: stuff going on underneath the surface. I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of murder, a lot of just intrigue, all kinds of

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Speaker 1: people who really surprise you. You know, you thought they

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Speaker 1: were they were just regular folks. With what this of

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Speaker 1: With with that very descriptive introduction, before we get into

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Speaker 1: things I want to talking about, well, I want to

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Speaker 1: tell everybody right now that the story that we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about involves multiple murders and some very graphic things.

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Speaker 1: So if that's not your deal, if or if you've

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Speaker 1: got kids around right now, you should probably either skip

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Speaker 1: this one or listen to you know, listen to it later. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's this is this is a rough one. It

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Speaker 1: has the potential to be a rough one. And and

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Speaker 1: the story that we're going to talk about is the

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Speaker 1: Jefferson Davis Sate or you've also also it's also referred

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Speaker 1: to as the Jennings eight. Yeah, and and this was

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Speaker 1: this is this is not a small story. So again,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of one of those we've all taken

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Speaker 1: it on together to try and work through this, and

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you right on the on the outset, Joiel,

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Speaker 1: We're not going to solve this, this one, even more

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Speaker 1: than any of the other times you ever say that, well,

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Speaker 1: we can solve this. In high level terms, there were

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Speaker 1: eight murders. Okay, well, don't don't. Don't get ahead of yourself.

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Speaker 1: And if he okay, am I wrong? All right? So

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna do here is is we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: this in a couple of different parts. So this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be set up a little bit differently than a

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Speaker 1: normal episode is we're gonna kind of break down some

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Speaker 1: of the players that are involved in some of the facts.

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Speaker 1: The person that did the most investigation on this story

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Speaker 1: is a man by the name of Ethan Brown. And

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Speaker 1: Ethan Brown he wrote a great article about this and

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Speaker 1: it was on me, it's on medium and were we

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Speaker 1: actually were lucky enough to talk to him, and so

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Speaker 1: we've got a pretty good, lengthy interview where he's gonna

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Speaker 1: walk through a lot of this stuff with you and

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Speaker 1: then we'll talk about some other stuff after that. But

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Speaker 1: I just kind of wanna before we get to that interview.

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Speaker 1: Let's lay down some groundwork. So by the way, he's

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Speaker 1: Ethan Brown is writing a book about this very topic,

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Speaker 1: which y'all are probably going to go out and get

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Speaker 1: a copy of, probably are um and I think it

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Speaker 1: would probably be helpful to mention on the outset. You

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Speaker 1: may or may not know our website we always post stuff,

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Speaker 1: but Steve has made this kind of flow chart graphic

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Speaker 1: description of what's going on. So if you want to

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Speaker 1: check out that document, it's a you can download it

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Speaker 1: as a PDF. We're going to make it available to you,

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Speaker 1: so right now go to Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can just you know, click on it, check the

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Speaker 1: PDF or printed out whatever you want. It may actually

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Speaker 1: help you track this if that's something a lot of

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Speaker 1: you listen while you're at work, whatever, So don't worry

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Speaker 1: about it. We're gonna do the best we can. But

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Speaker 1: if you are interested, you should do that. Now. Print

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Speaker 1: out your like little Annie Orphan Annie. Hopefully your printer

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Speaker 1: can handle the leven by seventeen. View it online. It's easy,

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Speaker 1: but no it I we made this knowing that this

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Speaker 1: was a complicated case and this is the first time

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Speaker 1: we've had to do is and I think it's going

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Speaker 1: to really help. Okay, Okay, so now that you've downloaded

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Speaker 1: the pdf, Okay, so here, let's let's start out and

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Speaker 1: we'll just kind of take this in. Each person will

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Speaker 1: kind of take a different piece. So I'll go ahead

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Speaker 1: and I'll start off with our victims. And there are

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Speaker 1: eight victims, primary victims. And these are eight different women,

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Speaker 1: and those plus two other corpses. Well, yes, this is

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Speaker 1: why we're just talking about right now. We're just gonna

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Speaker 1: name off our primary victims, the eight and they were

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Speaker 1: murdered between two thousand five to two thousand nine. And

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Speaker 1: and on the outset. Again, if we haven't said this,

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Speaker 1: these murders are unsolved. Yeah. And and by the way,

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Speaker 1: this is this is in in Jennings, Louisiana, a little

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Speaker 1: small town of about what ten thousand people. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about this now we live in We live in

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Speaker 1: Portland's which average is about twenty murders a year. Portland

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Speaker 1: is infinitely larger than Yeah. Yeah, that's the first town

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Speaker 1: that size. That's a hell of a lot of murder. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I guess that there's so they is the eight.

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Speaker 1: This is getting ahead of ourselves talking about let's just

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Speaker 1: talk about the eighth. So I'm gonna just list them

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Speaker 1: off in chronological order. On May two thousand five, the

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Speaker 1: body of Lynn Lewis was found. We're doing chronological of

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Speaker 1: discovery of discovery, yes, yes, thank you for clarifying that,

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Speaker 1: because we don't know the exact dates. So these are

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Speaker 1: all discoveries of the body. And also they might have

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Speaker 1: committed suicide. Just made it look like murderers, alright. So

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Speaker 1: next we have Ernestine Patterson, whose body was discovered on

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Speaker 1: June eighteenth of two thousand five. We have Kristen Lopez

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Speaker 1: whose body was found on March eighteenth of two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: Whitney Dubois who was found on May seventeenth, two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: Laconia Brown was found on May twenty nine of two

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Speaker 1: thousand eight. Crystal zen Zeno Rosino I think it's Zeno

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Speaker 1: Zeno was set Timber eleven, two thousand eight, was found,

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Speaker 1: Brittany Gary was found on November eleven of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, and then lastly, Nicole Guillory was found on

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Speaker 1: August nineteen of two thousand nine. And they're all young women.

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Speaker 1: The youngest I believe was seventeen and the oldest was

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Speaker 1: thirty years old, so they're they're in a very very

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Speaker 1: pretty tight age range. And we'll just talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the murder victims themselves. In this town, it's

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Speaker 1: rampant with drug use, each other, they all knew each other.

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Speaker 1: There's prostitution is known to have taken place, and these

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Speaker 1: girls were all prostitutes at one time. And I believe

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Speaker 1: that they were all prostitutes. I'm not gonna I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonnacent say, I'm not going to cast dispersions on the dead.

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Speaker 1: But they were also all known to frequent the same place.

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Speaker 1: Which is it the Joe helped with the pronunciation. Is

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Speaker 1: it more though? I think, and I think it's Boudau. Boudreau,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is closed down now, yes, And this

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Speaker 1: will this will the Boudreau will and will come up

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Speaker 1: in our interview with Ethan. So again we're just kind

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Speaker 1: of laying these things out. But the end was it

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Speaker 1: sounded like a tin building that operated as a hotel.

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Speaker 1: Yeahs was a hotel eight yeah, not not even up

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Speaker 1: to that high standard, yeah, I know. And and there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of basically it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: den of iniquity, a lot of drug use, a lot

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Speaker 1: of prostitution, doing things like that. And Mr Brown will

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Speaker 1: talk about this a little bit. But Jennings is a

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Speaker 1: place that's very divided. There's the north side and the

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Speaker 1: south side, which are divided by literal railroad track and

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Speaker 1: the south side is apparently a den of kind of

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Speaker 1: people who are on a much lower economic class. Lots

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Speaker 1: of prostitution, drug use, crime. Doing what you think you

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Speaker 1: have to do to get is the best way I

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Speaker 1: can think of to say. I did a little street tour.

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Speaker 1: Actually I got on Google Maps and did just gun

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Speaker 1: on the street view and just buzzed around the streets

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the north part of town. And

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look that bad, you know. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: I got to try to go to the south and

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Speaker 1: apparently the Google car was afraid to go there. There's

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Speaker 1: not even Google ste pictures. Actually there are a little

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Speaker 1: bit there. But yeah, So there are also three cops

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Speaker 1: that are closely tied to this case. Well I think

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Speaker 1: I think I think it's three cops that that come

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Speaker 1: up the most is And you might want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the task force a little bit. There either is

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Speaker 1: a task force. It's like local cops. It's local cops

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Speaker 1: FBI and county coups and state cops and that b

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Speaker 1: I on there. I wasn't clear on that theoretically there theoretically,

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Speaker 1: but they're a local branch of the FBI, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so these people all know each other. Um, But the

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Speaker 1: three main cop players that are kind of brought up

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Speaker 1: that are really tied into the case, Um, the first

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Speaker 1: I'm not tied into the sense we should stress that

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Speaker 1: that there's there's any indication that they have any they've

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Speaker 1: actually got involvement in the murders. Nefarious, but yeah, but

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Speaker 1: there's there's questionable actions we'll talk about. That's a little bit. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me let me preface what Joe said there. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know, We're we're pretty deep in this, and

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Speaker 1: that's why I want us to back up a little

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Speaker 1: bit for our listeners. I don't know about YouTube, but

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Speaker 1: I've had my head deep in this story for three weeks,

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Speaker 1: to the point that I've been talking about this story

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Speaker 1: to everybody I know, to the point that I know

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Speaker 1: that my boss is tired of hearing about it, my

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Speaker 1: fiance is tired of hearing about it, my friends are

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Speaker 1: tired of here. But they want to talk. But we're

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Speaker 1: so deep in this is that I think that what

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Speaker 1: we need to get across before we get too much

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Speaker 1: in of the cops is this is a very tiny

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Speaker 1: a very small town, and everybody knows everybody. And so

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about these people and we're gonna make connections,

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Speaker 1: it's because if you've ever known anybody, or you've ever

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Speaker 1: lived it, who's in a small town, everybody knows everybody,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's connected. And that's that's the point of what

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Speaker 1: I think is the reason that we're bringing up these

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Speaker 1: these particulars and they have they have very defined actions

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Speaker 1: that connects them to the case. It may not be murders,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to talk about that right now. So

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Speaker 1: Paula Guillory, she was a deputy um in Jennings for

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Speaker 1: a while. She has no longer a deputy. She has

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Speaker 1: since been fired. She was part of the task force

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Speaker 1: and she was charged with managing the evidence in a

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Speaker 1: case against a guy named Frankie Richard, who we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about in a minute, because about four thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars was missing after it was cataloged. It just went

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Speaker 1: missing out of evidence. So she was excused of taking

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Speaker 1: that money. Yeah, it was actually one. She was turning

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Speaker 1: it into be catalog. That's when it came missing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then and I don't know that Ethan talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about this, so we'll get a little bit

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Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty of that. Um. But she was

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Speaker 1: fired for theft and um claims of tampering with the

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Speaker 1: evidence or theft of evidence. And she was at one

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Speaker 1: time married to a man named Terry Guillory as also

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Speaker 1: a cop who was actually the warden at the local jail,

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Speaker 1: who was cousins with one of the murder victims, the

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Speaker 1: seventh murder victim. He was the warden at a local jail,

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Speaker 1: and he was alleged to have tricked out female inmates,

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Speaker 1: which I guess means that means you put really cool

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Speaker 1: accessories on he was. It's essentially he was pimping them out,

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Speaker 1: which is not a good thing to have somebody in

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Speaker 1: a position of authority doing that kind of stuff. Happens though.

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Speaker 1: And then Officer Warren Gary, who as far as we

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Speaker 1: can tell, has no actual relation to Brittany Gary who

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Speaker 1: was remember six if you're keeping track, and he I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get too deep into it, but he

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Speaker 1: purchased a truck that was probably evidence and then detailed it,

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Speaker 1: thus negating any evidence that would be in said truck.

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Speaker 1: And he purchased it from Warden Terry Guillory actually broker.

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Speaker 1: This Guillory broker the sale. He actually bought it from somebody.

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Speaker 1: Sorry for passing, and that that evidence. Just so we

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Speaker 1: can tie back to our victims, would be it's related

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Speaker 1: to the Lopez murder, which is victim number three. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so those are the three main police officers that were

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a little bit in regards to this case. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Now we talked about the pulitzide, the Pope Poz. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the other local characters. There's there's

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Speaker 1: a guy that's kind of at the center of a

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Speaker 1: lot of this stuff whose name is Frankie Richard. Frankie

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Speaker 1: is an older guy and he's been around the block

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Speaker 1: a few times. He is has got his fingers and

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Speaker 1: a lot of pies in Jennings. He is rumored alleged

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Speaker 1: to be a major pimp, and it's it's rumored that

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Speaker 1: he actually pimped out all the women who were murdered,

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Speaker 1: all but one actually Okay, yeah, it was he yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was all but one of them he had pimped out. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's involved in various other things like for example, um,

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Speaker 1: the raid where Paula Guillory, the policewoman that we just

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Speaker 1: talked about that got her in hot water, was a

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Speaker 1: raid on his house. So he had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other people in this. In this particular instance, had been

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Speaker 1: running this rain where they they broke into people's homes

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Speaker 1: and stole stuff including cash and coins and jewelry and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. And so they rated, including including Paula

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Speaker 1: Guillory and some other people. They rated his home and

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Speaker 1: arrested a few people and confiscated a bunch of material,

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Speaker 1: including the evidence that she was supposed to turn in

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Speaker 1: four thousand dollars was turned in missing, So that was all.

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Speaker 1: That was all Frankie ri Shard. So he's he's been

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Speaker 1: involved in a lot of this. And if you talked

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Speaker 1: to h if you talk to Ethan Brown, Ethan Brown

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Speaker 1: actually spent a lot of time hanging out with Frankie

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Speaker 1: ri Shard. He's kind of the he's kind of the

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Speaker 1: crime kingpan of Jenny. Yeah, he doesn't he doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like the kind of guy I want to sit around

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Speaker 1: and have a beer with I've watched interviews with him,

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Speaker 1: and he is creepy. He's creepy. The word to use.

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Speaker 1: Creepy is the word that I would use, but in

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Speaker 1: the way that it's unsettling to talk to people who

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Speaker 1: might not be all the way they're generally. Oh, you

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Speaker 1: mean a long term drug users, somebody who's been using

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Speaker 1: drugs for a long time, and they're talking, he's talking

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Speaker 1: and stuff, but he's just not there's something there. It's

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Speaker 1: just like, you know, like a there's a wire that's

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Speaker 1: not totally connected. He's not in that weird it's hard

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Speaker 1: to describe. He himself admitted to like decades of drug

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Speaker 1: and alcohol abuse. Definitely. Yeah, And I unfortunately, just because

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Speaker 1: of where I grew up, I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people like that, and so I can I totally understand

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. There's something you talk to somebody like

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Speaker 1: it's I guess it's that like there's like a bit

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Speaker 1: of like emotional connection that seems to be missing. And

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Speaker 1: I also think that it's the loose wire that you

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Speaker 1: talked about. Yeah, I actually think it's not loose. It's

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Speaker 1: connected to the wrong spot and they make a lot

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Speaker 1: of weird rapid jumps and that's that's unsettling. A lot

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Speaker 1: of heavy drug uses. And those are the people that

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Speaker 1: I've always found were like that. They just they skip

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Speaker 1: back and forth. It's it's like a needle on a

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Speaker 1: record that is in a car driving down the road.

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Speaker 1: It's just I've known people like that. And you know, again,

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Speaker 1: we'll post a link to a video an interview with him,

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Speaker 1: but it's uh, yeah, sorry, not until that's fine. But yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: so we talked about Frankie Ushard. Just another side about Frankie.

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Speaker 1: He was he was actually uh they actually tried to

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Speaker 1: put him on trial for one of the murders because

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Speaker 1: somebody named there's another character I'm going to produce you now,

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Speaker 1: Tracy Chase Song is a person who a female person

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Speaker 1: who claims that she saw Frankie and his god niece

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Speaker 1: Hannah Connor murder Dubois. Which who was which one? She

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Speaker 1: was the fourth victim? I believe? Yeah, Okay, so Tracy

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Speaker 1: actually claimed to a scene Frankie Richard murder a couple

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Speaker 1: of different people. And then of course I mentioned Hannah

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Speaker 1: Hannah Connor that is again Richard's god niece, and they

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Speaker 1: spent some time hanging out together. In terms of the

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Speaker 1: Dubois murder, which of course Frankie didn't never actually got

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Speaker 1: tried for because for lack of evidence. UM she claimed

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Speaker 1: that she was sitting around getting high with du Bois,

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Speaker 1: Hannah Connor, Frankie Rochard, and herself, and Frankie made a

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Speaker 1: move on. Du Bois wanted to like have sex with her.

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Speaker 1: She refused, so he got angry beat her up, and

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Speaker 1: that supposedly Hanna Khan her and Hannah Connor held her

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Speaker 1: down and they drowned her. I don't know how that works.

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Speaker 1: Exactly four seven up down her throat until she can't

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Speaker 1: breathe anymore. But yeah, well we won't go into the

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Speaker 1: grizzly details, but let's just say that she was found

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Speaker 1: next to um, what's it's canal because the area it's

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana, so it's surrounded by canals, and they drowned her.

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Speaker 1: She she was drowned. And and actually that brings up

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Speaker 1: one thing that I did forget to mention when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about her victims is that six of our

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Speaker 1: eight victims we don't have a confirmed cause a death.

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Speaker 1: They were two they were too decomposed. They believe it

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Speaker 1: was aphyxia, but they can't confirm that. And then the

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Speaker 1: other two, which this is terrible. With the other two,

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Speaker 1: they know the cause of death because their throats were

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Speaker 1: cut they slit. So so yeah, so I I just

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Speaker 1: because that one, I know, they talked about drowning this

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Speaker 1: particular individual. Okay, Now, speaking of speaking of some of

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Speaker 1: the other characters involved, there's a couple of guys Byron

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Speaker 1: Jones and Lawrence Nixon, who are just just general narrative

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Speaker 1: wells who hung around Jennings. They were charged for Patterson's murder.

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Speaker 1: Patterson was the second the second victim. She was discovered

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Speaker 1: in two thousand six, two thousand seven five. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: they were charged with her murder. About the charges were

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Speaker 1: dropped due to lack of evidence. Yeah, just a reoccurring theme.

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Speaker 1: They're just yeah, there's not a lot of evidence, and

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Speaker 1: yeah and so and and either these guys are really

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Speaker 1: good but or you know, covering up evidence or you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess if you toss the body somewhere and it's

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Speaker 1: not found for a long time, but by the time

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Speaker 1: they find the body, all the evidence has sort of

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Speaker 1: been washed away. You know. That's so Connie Siler. So

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Speaker 1: she was the last one to see Lopez alive. Lopez

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Speaker 1: was the third victim, and she was involved with this

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Speaker 1: pickup truck that was broken by this one cop to

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Speaker 1: another cop who bought it and the audio, yeah, which

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Speaker 1: we talked about just do. But she was perfectly involved

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Speaker 1: because of her pickout truck. Maybe she used the money

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Speaker 1: from that sale to pay off a bunch of bad

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Speaker 1: checks and get herself out of trouble. So those are

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Speaker 1: just some of the other major players. Now let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about a couple of the because I know you

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Speaker 1: in the beginning you mentioned that there's some other murders

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Speaker 1: and when we talk to Ethan, and this will come

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Speaker 1: up in the interview, is that there is a huge

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Speaker 1: murder rate and there's a huge unsolved murder rate. But

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Speaker 1: her number of murders. But there's a couple of clearance right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: low clearance rate is a good way to put it.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of other facts that you should probably

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Speaker 1: know before we get too far along, although we're already

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Speaker 1: pretty far along. Uh. There is a death of a

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Speaker 1: local man who is let Crochet, and he died on

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Speaker 1: in April of two thousand and five, Croche was was

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Speaker 1: killed in the term is has been dubbed a botched

365
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Speaker 1: police raids. So there was a bunch of people at

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Speaker 1: the house. They were all doing drugs. The cops came

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Speaker 1: in and the electricity had been cut off. There's no electricity,

368
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Speaker 1: and and for reasons unknown, the cops opened fire in

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Speaker 1: the middle of this what was otherwise a peaceful drug raid. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and killed this man and killed this man. And there

371
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: have been theories positive that these women we know for

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Speaker 1: sure at least one of the victims was there, but

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Speaker 1: it's been positive that they all knew something about that

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Speaker 1: police shooting and that was the reason that they were

375
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Speaker 1: all targeted. Yeah, and in a small town, everybody talks.

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Speaker 1: They won't talk to the cops, but they'll talk to

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Speaker 1: each other and they will share information and red rumors

378
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Speaker 1: like wildfire. Yeah. Although I gotta tell you though, I

379
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Speaker 1: am I really don't buy into that theory personally, No,

380
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Speaker 1: I think I think that's weak sauce. But I want

381
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Speaker 1: to put it out there. Some people are aware of

382
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, there is. There's there's two other deaths

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Speaker 1: that I want to talk about. One of them is

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Speaker 1: in relation to the fourth victim, which is whitneyd Wi

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Speaker 1: And there was a man by the name of Harvey

386
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Speaker 1: bird Dog Burier. I believe I'm pronouncing that right. I

387
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: think it's either yeah, Okay, we'll go with that. Everything

388
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: is kind of French and yeah, and that's why I'm

389
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Speaker 1: not good with friendships. Yeah. So bird Dog was was

390
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Speaker 1: shot to death. You're right, he was stabbed to death.

391
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Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm on a shooting thing. Evidently

392
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: he was stabbed to death after telling people that he

393
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Speaker 1: was close to figuring out who was responsible for the

394
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Speaker 1: Dubois killing Whitney Dubois. So he died because of that,

395
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Speaker 1: and his murder has never been solved, well not necessarily

396
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: because of that, but it is a little suspicious. Well again,

397
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Speaker 1: it's you draw one another. He's walking around town telling

398
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Speaker 1: everybody he's working on the case and he's figuring out

399
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 1: and then suddenly he's stabbed down. Yeah. And then another

400
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Speaker 1: victim that's on the periphety that I want to talk

401
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: about is Ussell Carrier is a carrier carrier Okay, we'll

402
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: just say carrier and we'll probably be wrong on that,

403
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: but Russell Carrier, Uh, he after Crystal Zeno, how did

404
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: we anyway? Crystal? After the Zenno murder, he reported seeing

405
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: three men leaving the woods, leaving the woods where the

406
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: body was found, leaving the woods where the body was found,

407
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Speaker 1: and and he said that he had spotted these three men.

408
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Speaker 1: And it is a man by the name of Irvin

409
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Speaker 1: Tyson Morton, Eugene dog Ivory and Ricardo Tiger Williams. And

410
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Speaker 1: those middle names are all nicknames. They are. Yes, yeah,

411
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Speaker 1: that's that's a good thing to say. Those there, by

412
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Speaker 1: the way, they are all close associatests Frankie Richard and

413
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Speaker 1: all people the task force had named as suspects in

414
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Speaker 1: the Lopez homicide. Well, actually no, um Irvin was the

415
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Speaker 1: only one that had been specifically that I know had

416
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: specifically been targeted in the Lopez murder. But they're all,

417
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: as Joe said, they're all associates of Richard. And here's

418
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Speaker 1: here's the the weird thing is that Um is Russell.

419
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Speaker 1: His cause of death was he laid down in front

420
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Speaker 1: of a train. Yeah, I know. That's that's one of

421
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: my favorite napping spots is on railroad tracks. Yeah. Yeah,

422
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Speaker 1: he was snoozing on the tracks and the train came

423
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Speaker 1: along and killed him. So nothing suspicious about that. You know.

424
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Speaker 1: Some people said, oh, yeah it was a suicide, but like, no,

425
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Speaker 1: I don't know that there's any documented cases of somebody

426
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: laying in front of a train. People do it, you know,

427
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: but but you freak out right, you have your last

428
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: minute of like you're just like primal. Whatever we're going to,

429
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: I think it would be that that commits suicide via

430
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: train usually jump from just lay down because when you're

431
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: laying down, you know your natural inclinations to think about things,

432
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: so that it's very jumping in front of a train.

433
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: You know, Suicide by train is very common in places

434
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: like Japan, but in places like Louisiana, guns are pretty plentiful.

435
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: This it would be a lot easier and quicker to

436
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: grab a twelve gage just stick it in your mouth.

437
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you just run out to one

438
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: of those canals yourself to the fishes. Yeah. Yeah, it's

439
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: lot of ways to do it, definitely better quicker, easier

440
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: ways and laying down the tracks. So okay, I think

441
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: are we all in agreement that we've kind of laid

442
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: out as a skeleton overview the case. Yeah, do we

443
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: want to just like quickly mentioned that a couple of

444
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: the eight were interviewed about murders that happened previous to

445
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: their murders. That's actually probably a very good thing. So

446
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: Kristen Lopez, who there's a lot of connections, she seems

447
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: to be one of the big more connected. She's kind

448
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: of a hot spot. Yeah, she was interviewed about the

449
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: Lynn Lewis murder, which was the first body that they found,

450
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: and then I guess, just not so long after she

451
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: was interviewed, she was murdered. And then Brown, who was

452
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: the fifth person to be found, was interviewed about the

453
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: Patterson murder, which was the second murder or the second

454
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: body to have been found. Again, we don't totally know

455
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: when the murders happened, we know when they were found. Um,

456
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: so she was interviewed at that and then you know,

457
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: if you kind of add the bird Dog and Russell

458
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: potential murders in with that, I guess that would be

459
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: about four people who were interviewed or said something about

460
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: the case. And I think that's a company I think

461
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: that does talk about this. It's much clearer, it's much clearer.

462
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: But they foundation all knew each other we're all wrapped

463
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: up in it. And it's also been positive. There's Sessaman

464
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: said that they were all informants for the local, and

465
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: that's thank you, Joe, because that's right where I was going,

466
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: is that these ladies were all supposedly informants. I think

467
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: that the clearest case, I believe it was um Nicole Guillory.

468
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: She had a pretty serious rap sheet and she had

469
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: a lot of things on her rap sheet, but she

470
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: the d A decided not to follow it. And Joe,

471
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: do you remember the phrase for when you're an informant

472
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: and they don't want to follow through because you're an

473
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: informant And I don't remember that. I don't remember that.

474
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: There's a phrase. It's a Latin phrase, but essentially what

475
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: it means is that we don't want to follow through

476
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: because you're our informant, and we don't want to get

477
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: you out of the field because then we're not getting

478
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: information out of you anymore. And all these women had

479
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: things like that against him. We're copscious, like, oh no,

480
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: we don't, we don't want to pursue that case. So

481
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: you beat that guy with an axe handle, Well, that's okay,

482
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: that that John deserved it. We don't want to follow

483
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: that case. It literally cases like that. So yeah, So

484
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: one of the things that I suspect with these if

485
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: if they were all informing to the local police, if

486
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, and and it appears that Jennings actually had

487
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: really kind of a crime syndicate. There's kind of a

488
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: mafia there, and they probably had at least one mole

489
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: inside the police department, which means that if you're informing

490
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: and on members of the crime syndicate, then the mall

491
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: gets the information back to the crime syndicate, that would

492
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: be possibly a factor and you're getting murdered somewhere later

493
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: on down the line. All these women were informing, and

494
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure there was a mole at least one corrupt

495
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: cop inside inside who was passing information along with the criminals.

496
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: A little bit feel like we should talk about a

497
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: lot of this police stuff that we're talking about our

498
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: recent revelations based around Ethan Brown's investigation. So I think

499
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: that a little bit we should say for a long

500
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: time people thought that there was just a really crazy

501
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: serial killer on the loose in Jennings, um that it

502
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: was one person who was killing a lot of people.

503
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: And it's still you know, it's still totally plausible that

504
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: it's just one person, but that that person, you know,

505
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: was on a killing spree from two thousand two thousand

506
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: nine and moved to you know, I've even seen I've

507
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stuff in my research, um just

508
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: looking through like you know, looking through threads on Reddit

509
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: or looking at a are kind of internet investigation places

510
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: where people kind of talk, you know, on forums, and

511
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: a lot of people say, oh, yeah, the Jennings cases,

512
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: the Jennings eight are connected to this serial killer that

513
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: they apprehended in California two years later, and it was

514
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: just like that this person was passing through there. So

515
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: I think it's very and just decided to stick around

516
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: for about four years. And yeah, well, I think it's

517
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: important to mention that for a really long time that

518
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: was the assumption, including the task forces assumption that there's

519
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: just a crazy serial killer killing prostitutes. Jennings not an

520
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: outrageous assumption. I agree with it. Yeah, yeah, it's not,

521
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: but it's not not necessarily be the case. There might

522
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: be multiple murders. I know that Frankie Shardaki is one

523
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: of the local cops of being responsible for the murders

524
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: because and I can't remember the cops name, and I

525
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: don't want to repeat it because I don't want to

526
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: slander anybody's day. But this guy apparently was a little

527
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: bit kinky and none to frequent the prostitutes of Jennings

528
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: and when the ladies he did and uh and when

529
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: he died, the murder stopped. Now Frankie Shark, Frankie Shard

530
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: claims that it was probably him. But at the same time,

531
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 1: Ethan Brown, for example, thinks that doesn't place a lot

532
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: of credibility in that. He doesn't. He thinks he's people

533
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: believes that that cop possibly is in well, that one

534
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: of the murders, but not all of them. Yeah, So

535
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I think I just think it's really important to talk

536
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: about the fact that until Brown published his article, really

537
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: in terms of the coverage that this was getting nationwide,

538
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: it was always a serial kid. It's just a serial killer. No,

539
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: that's that's a very good point to make, And thank you,

540
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: I think miss that I totally forgot to bring that up.

541
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: So that's perfect. I think, you know, while we're kind

542
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: of talking, what we're talking about all this police corruption,

543
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: but that police corruption didn't really come to light until

544
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: I guess when did the article come out. It was

545
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, later than Ethan's article came out,

546
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: relatively recently. I'm sorry, I'm getting my dates. Yeah, and

547
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: by the way, I know I mentioned his book earlier,

548
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: but he's been he's still since reading that writing that article,

549
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: has been still on the case and talk to a

550
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: lot more people and says that he's uncovered a lot

551
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: more stuff. Yeah. So and unfortunately, so what we're gonna do.

552
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: I think at this point it's a good time to

553
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: to to bring in our interview. So we were lucky enough,

554
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: like I said before, to to talk to Ethan. Uh.

555
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: And there's a couple of things. So I know Devin,

556
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: ironically enough, you wouldn't be here because she was in court.

557
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: She was actually luckily off. She got a good lawyer.

558
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Devin wasn't able to join us. But

559
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: Joe and I did talk to it. I have reviewed

560
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: the interview. Uh, And there's a couple of things that

561
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: I want to say, which is Ethan, we do bound

562
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: it around a little bit, and we tried to take

563
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: it in order. But this case is such a tangled

564
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: mess that it may feel like we're jumping around, and

565
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: that's not intentional. We're just following threads. That's why we

566
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: try to lay everything out. Yeah, because it's already even

567
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: just in this last you know, thirty minutes that we've

568
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: been trying, however long we've been talking about it, it's

569
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: a mess. You are absolutely, by the way, I believe

570
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: that these murders are never going to be solved. Yeah.

571
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: The the other thing I will tell you is, uh,

572
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, usually we get really lucky when we're recording

573
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: an interview. Unfortunately, our connection on this interview wasn't the best,

574
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: and that's going to happen. There's just nothing we can

575
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: do to control that. So there are times that the

576
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: audio is a little rough, and we've done what we

577
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: could to clean that up. So bear with us as

578
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: as the interview plays out. Sometimes it gets a little funny.

579
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: That's what happens when you record a phone call. But

580
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: with that having been said, let's go ahead and let's

581
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: talk to Ethan and then we'll we'll talk some more

582
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: about the case. Okay, So to start off with what

583
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping is, because this story is

584
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: pretty convoluted, is the best description that I can come

585
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: up with. I was hoping you could kind of walk

586
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: us through the story a little bit just to to

587
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: help kind of illustrate it for our listeners. Sure, I'll

588
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: walk you through the Barrett Mowings version of it first perfect.

589
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: So from two thousand and five to two thousand and nine,

590
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: the bodies of eight female prostitute. We're found um in

591
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: swamps and kind of abandoned roads and and and voided

592
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: areas of a town called Jennings, which is the parish

593
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 1: seat of Jefferson Davis Parish in Louisiana. UM. In Louisiana,

594
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: what we have is parishes, not county. So in other

595
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: states you would have come from Maryland, you would have

596
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: Montgomery County for example, right, So in Louisiana and you

597
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: have parishes. So Jennings is the parish to Jefferson Davis Parish,

598
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: and Jefferson Davis Parish is a tiny parish in the

599
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: very very far west corner of Louisiana's exactly. It's very

600
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: close to Texas, UM. And the population is only about

601
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: thirty thousand for the entire parish, and the population of

602
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: Jennings is about ten thousand, so it's even smaller. So again, oh,

603
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: I just say I took a little, a little street

604
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: tour on Google street View yesterday, and it's not a

605
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: bad looking little town. Um, but I noticed there was nobody.

606
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: There was nobody out and about. It was like you

607
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: see cars driving. I always saw one human being on

608
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: a sidewalk. It was kind of scary. Right. It's a

609
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: very very small town. And what's interesting about it is

610
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: that the it's a it's a very divided town. The

611
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: north side of Jennings has things like the library, the courthouse,

612
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: a few car dealerships, you know, sort of typical small

613
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: town stuff. Right. The south side, which is actually divided

614
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: by railroad tracks, so the cliche across the tracks, it's

615
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: completely truelier. South side, uh, conversely, is abandoned homes, trailer parks,

616
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: very very small single family homes and things like that.

617
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: So it's it's quite different than the north side. Like

618
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: of a race racially segregated town. I mean, it's like

619
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: it's not. And that's also what's interesting. It's segregated by class. Um.

620
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: South side Jennings is actually African American and white. And

621
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: we talk to folks I've actually been doing. I have

622
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: a book deal to write a book about this case.

623
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of a lot more investigations

624
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: since the article came out, and you hear phrases used

625
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: by south side residents talk about the north side like

626
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: high class, high falutin and things like that. So it's

627
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 1: a class devide, it's not a race divide. South Side

628
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: Jennings is very racially mixed actually, so you have these

629
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: two separate sides of the town and south Buds Tennings

630
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: is where all of these women who were killed. Uh,

631
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: we're firm, so there's very bare bones. Uh. Sketch of

632
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: the story is that from two thousand and five or

633
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, eight female obstitutes, all from the

634
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: south side of Jennings were killed and their bodies were

635
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: dumped either in canals I'm kind of dirt roads or

636
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: in wooded areas uh in and around James so um

637
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: and and all. And it's important to note, obviously that

638
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: every single one of those murders is unsolved. Um. At

639
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: one time, very briefly, charges were brought in one of

640
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: the cases, the case of a woman named Kristin Darry Lopez,

641
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: who was murdered in two thousand and seven, and charges

642
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: were brought against the very notorious temp on the south

643
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: Side and Frankie re Shard, But those charges were very

644
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: quickly dropped, so all the homicides are un sold. But

645
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: the charges, I guess we shared. Those are based on

646
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: what's your name is? Tracy? Tracy chefs On is very interesting.

647
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 1: She's the cousin of the first them, whose name is

648
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Florida chefs Song. And um, she was for a very

649
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 1: long time a pimp, I'm sorry at a prostitute working

650
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: for Rechard's attempt and the reason it's not entirely clear

651
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: why the charges against Rechard were dropped, but it appears

652
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: to be that she provided inconsistent statements to the police

653
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: regarding that homicide. Yeah, now she she's she originally told

654
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: the police that she had witnessed Richard and Hannah Connor

655
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: murder Kristin Lopez next to a canal. Yeah, and correct.

656
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: Hannah Connor is a kind of a god niece Frankie Eschard,

657
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: who was also very close with all the murdered women. Yeah,

658
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: and so the was it Tracy is a chess On? Yeah, okay,

659
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: Tracy just on that now she was a source? Was

660
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: the source also the accusation about the pickup truck No,

661
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: she was not in in in two thousand and seven

662
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: and advert about us a bid in my piece, a

663
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: detective with the Jennings Police named Jess the Ewing interviewed

664
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: to female inmates who provided statements to him in which

665
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: they talked about Hannah Connor confessing her involvement in at

666
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: least one of the homicides and I think perhaps two

667
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: as well. And they all I mean inmates also said

668
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: that Connor confessed to them that Frankie Eschard worked with

669
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: actually the chief criminal investigator of the Jefferson Davis Parash

670
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office, a guy named Warren Gary, to dispose of

671
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: DNA evidence in the Kristen Garry lott Is homicide. Yeah,

672
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: but but she supposedly was murdered by the banks of

673
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: the canal where she was found. Correct, that's according to

674
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: the Shafton statement. It's not clear that that's correct. It's

675
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: complicated little town. It seems like everybody was informing on everybody.

676
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 1: It's a it's a very complex town. But the more

677
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: time I've spend there, the more I realized that it's

678
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: it's a town that's very much doomed by its geography,

679
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: meaning that Jennings is literally like if you're driving on

680
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: I ten and a big highway that connects um Houston

681
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: to New Orleans. If you're driving on I tent, it's

682
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: like a driveway kind of off ten. It's literally on

683
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: the highway. And I've spent in that area is a

684
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: major major drug trafficking route. And then the amount of

685
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: drug us coming through Jennings and around Jennings is staggering.

686
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: And it's cocaine, it's craft, it's prescription pills, it's everything.

687
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: So Jennings is really really that's kind of the heart

688
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: of the drug trade in that area. And I've actually

689
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: since my pieces has around, I've actually talked to people

690
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: who were in the drug game for a long time

691
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: and Jennings and you know, they they would tell me

692
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: stories about you know, oh, you know everybody, and Jennings

693
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: knows that, like you know, when you're growing up there

694
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: that the way to get money in the easiest way

695
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: to get money is to make these little drug runs

696
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: Houston for cocaine or prescription pills and bring them back

697
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: to Jennings Um. And it's very easy to do, it's

698
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: very available, and it's very lucrat so Jennings is a

699
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: tiny town that has this tiny town setting in some

700
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: trees stall like from some of the images that you

701
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: looked at online. You know, you look at the downtown

702
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: and there's the post office in the library of the courthouse,

703
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: and it looks like a small town that could be anywhere.

704
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: But but yet it's it's really kind of a bull

705
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: dye area as far as the drug trade is concerned.

706
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: That's a shame. That's sort of a side question, which

707
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: is while you were there doing your investigation, did you

708
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: pack heat? No? I did not. Yeah, I gotta ask

709
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: a lot of people thretten me or you know, uh,

710
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: did I bring kound of me? And whatnot? When I

711
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: go out there there. And actually, interestingly, as I was

712
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: doing this piece, this is completely changed since the peace

713
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: came out, But prior to the piece coming out, I

714
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: was sort of looked at as a you know, as

715
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: a kind of They're like, oh, well, there's this strange person,

716
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: you know, coming to town a lot um not from here.

717
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: No one paid attention to what's going on here. Isn't

718
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: it sort of interesting that this guy is coming here.

719
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: You know, it was sort of you know, I was

720
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: actually treated quite well by everybody that I saw for

721
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: this piece, including law enforcement, because they had no idea

722
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: what to make of me. And I think also just

723
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: as importantly, this this case has been covered quite a

724
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: bit in the media. There's Seen End covered it, The

725
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: Times covered it, and everybody covered it from the same perspective,

726
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: which was there's a crazy serial killer loose in the

727
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: swamps of southwest Louisiana and that's it. And I think

728
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: they just expected me to do that piece that everybody

729
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: else has done, and you know, they were quite surprised

730
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: when that was not the piece that that that I did,

731
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: and very unhappy about that too. So they were unhappy

732
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: about Oh yeah, I mean the people of Jennings overwhelmingly,

733
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: and I've worked from a lot of people overwhelmingly we're

734
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: very happy about it. The d a's office, the Sheriff's office,

735
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: the police department were extremely unhappy about yeah, extremely And yeah,

736
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: So since the piece has come out, I've had to

737
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: radically change how I go out there because it is

738
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, there is a legitimate thread of many people

739
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: out there wanting to do harm to me. So since, yeah,

740
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: since the Pieza has come out, I've had to really

741
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: limited my time out there I need with people in

742
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: places like Lafayette or in Calfish you parish, which is

743
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: the parish next to Jeff David's parish. So I really

744
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: have to radically alter how I move out there. And

745
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: in fact, for the first at least two months, maybe

746
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: even three months after the peace was out, I didn't

747
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: even go near there. It's completely stayed away, just that

748
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: one can to have a cool down a bit. But yeah,

749
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: so now, yeah, I do have to really watch myself.

750
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't know though that having a gun necessarily it's

751
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: going to be the best thing for me out there.

752
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: I think it's more about moving in very smart ways

753
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 1: out there when to go out there, that that makes

754
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Now, um, I know that one

755
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: of the things that you found when you were in

756
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: your piece is there was a lot of police involvement

757
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: maybe nefarious is the word I would use. That people

758
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: hadn't made the connections before And is that kind of

759
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: what really rankled the feathers. Yes, particularly the information that

760
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: I got about Warren Gary and his involvement and disposing

761
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: of the DNA evidence in the Christin Gary Lopez case

762
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: and the other piece that makes them very unhappy. Which

763
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: they're stuck with and uh, you know, and these people

764
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: are not my witnesses, they're their witnesses. Was I obtained

765
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: dozens of task Force interviews witness interviews, as the task

766
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: force is a multi agency task force that was created

767
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight to investigate these homicides. And

768
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: I obtained dozens of task Force witness interviews, and in

769
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: these witness interviews, witnesses the name specific cops who they

770
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: believed were involved in murders. And what so upset them

771
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: about this was that for years, and going back probably

772
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: the two thousand and seven or so, when the power

773
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: when people in town started wondering about law enforcement and

774
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: their potential involvement in this. Law enforcement's response was, well,

775
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: you're just wondering about this. You're just hearing rumors. There's

776
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: nothing to it. There's nothing to this at all. Don't worry,

777
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: you're just hearing rumors. And what I did was by

778
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: obtaining those task course interviews where their witnesses and I

779
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: emphasize that a lot, it's it's their witnesses, not my witnesses,

780
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: where their witnesses nain specific cops aspects, and that as

781
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 1: said us so much because They can no longer say

782
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: it's a rumor, right when your own witnesses are coming

783
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 1: forward and saying, for example, Deputy Danny Berry, who is

784
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: a deputy who's actually now deceased, was involved in these homicides.

785
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: And you can't say it's just some guys or girls

786
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: or whoever talking on the street about Danny Berry. These

787
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 1: are actual witness statement that completely freaked them out, and

788
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: it's now just stroy their narrative. This is the narrative

789
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: that they have voisted upon this case. And if and

790
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: this is the narrative that they definitely want the town

791
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: to believe, is that anything you hear about lawforcement just

792
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: a rumor, Well, that's absolutely you know, crap, and it's

793
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: proven by their own witness interviews. So you know, it

794
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: was really the two two pieces of one, the warrant,

795
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: the statements about Warren Gary and again those are their witnesses,

796
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: not mine. Those are witnessed state statements taken by the

797
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: Jennings Police. And then it was to the witness statements

798
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: taken by the task force where cops and Sheriff Staptise

799
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: are named to suspects, actually destroyed their narrative about how

800
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: many how many different law enforcement personnel were named. Um,

801
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 1: I would say about four to five, Okay, that includes

802
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: Warren Gary and Danny Berry. Warren Gary, Danny Barry, the

803
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: the former warden of the parish jail, a guy named

804
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: Terry Guillory, hitch former wife paul Guillory, who was the

805
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: jeopudy with the Sheriff's office. And there's quite a few

806
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: ask and many of those people are very high ranking.

807
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about war and Gary was the

808
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: chief criminal investigator for the Sheriff's office, and Terry Guillory

809
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: is the warden of the parish too. So speaking of

810
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: Paula Guillory, I was kind of curious you interviewed her.

811
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: So she got fired for mishandley evidence. Um, but it

812
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: looks like yeah, And I read the Sheriff's memo and everything,

813
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: and it sounds he named a whole lot of the

814
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: whole list of grievances against her, including Louise. And I

815
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: would say, even though he fired her really quickly, there

816
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: was never any investigation or prosecution. So do you think

817
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: he fired her simply for the straight up reasons he specified,

818
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: or because perhaps she wasn't on board with the cover up,

819
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: or perhaps on the other side, maybe he thought that

820
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: she was involved in the crimes and wanted her just gone.

821
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's really hard to stay because there's a

822
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: lot of competing narratives about polic Guillary, including from Paul

823
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: Guillary yourself. I interviewed her for my piece briefly, and

824
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: she claimed to me that the missing evidence that she

825
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: was fired for was evidence seized in a raid on

826
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: Frankie Richard, and Frankie Richard's the prime suspect and in

827
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: several of these murders from Frankie. This was a raid

828
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: on Frankie Richard's house. So she told me that she

829
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: turned on the evidence and it simply disappeared. She didn't

830
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 1: know what happened to it. She said that she was

831
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: then terminated and actually the personnel file that I obtained

832
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: on her, which contained the investigation into her activities, she

833
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: had actually never even seen that, which I thought was

834
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: really interesting too, and like I was reading bits of

835
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: it to her to have her respond right to the

836
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: allegations and the investigation, and she had never heard any

837
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: ofthing before. So she was very quickly moved out of

838
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: her job. And you know, if you believe the investigation,

839
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: the internal investigation into her. It's you know that the

840
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: reason is is that she took something like three thousand

841
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: dollars that was taken into evidence and essentially just stole it.

842
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: And is that what happened? Well, I don't know, you know, um,

843
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, she says that's not what happened. The sheriff's

844
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 1: office says that is what happened. When I interviewed Frankie

845
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: Richard about it and I quoted him about this and

846
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: the peace, he made a comment which he meant kind

847
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: of as a joke, but I took actually very seriously,

848
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: which which was, you know, I want to thank Paula

849
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: Guillory pursuing evidence in that case because it caused the

850
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: charges against me and my mom to get drunk. And

851
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: Paula and she was pretty upset when she heard that,

852
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: wasn't she She wasnt really upset. She I read that

853
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: quote to her and she was very upset about that.

854
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: You know, she claimed she's a just a good cop

855
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: who was doing her job and really wanted to go

856
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: after Frankie Richard. And then I have a number of people,

857
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: including the private investigator who's working on the case, Kurt Bnard,

858
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: who have told me that right around the time that

859
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: Bola Guillory disappeared, that evidence she was a deserved at

860
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: Frankie Richard's home socializing with him, and she was also

861
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: observed at a house on the south side of Jennings

862
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: that was basically a crack house where all the just

863
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: about all the women hung out. She was deserved at

864
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 1: this crack house socializing with a number of people there.

865
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: Uh so, well, I was I was gonna ask, you know,

866
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: we've we've kind of dipped her tone in the water.

867
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 1: About Frankie ree Shard, he seems to be at the

868
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: middle of a lot of this stuff, and I'm just

869
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: kind of I haven't been able to wrap my brain around,

870
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: like what exactly is his involvement in all of this? Right,

871
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: he is at the center of Frankie is at the

872
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: center of the entire case because for a number of reasons. One,

873
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, and this is biazone admission, Like he he

874
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: pimped out pretty much all but one of the women um,

875
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: the one exclusion being Ernestine Patterson Um, one of the

876
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 1: early victims in two thousand and five. So he pimped

877
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 1: out all of these women. He also pimped them out

878
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: from one specific place, and I wrote about this a

879
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: bit in my piece, which is a motel that's right

880
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: on I tend called the Boudreau in so he and

881
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: those women were doing their business out of the boucher

882
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: in Um. He was also again by his own admission,

883
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: and at least two of the cases, and those with

884
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: the Kristin Lopez and what he do blah. He was

885
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: one of the lost people to be seen with at

886
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: least two of the victims. And then he also again

887
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: by his own admission, had pretty significant fights through disagreements

888
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: with at least two of the victims right before they

889
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: were killed over drugs and money. So you have all that,

890
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: and then you also have the fact that Frankie's relationship

891
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: with the both the Task Force and the Sheriff's office

892
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: is very interesting and suggest that he's and in both

893
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: informant for them and also someone who assists them in

894
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: covering up the things that they do. I obtained an

895
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: email exchange between Kirkmanard, the private investigator on the case,

896
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: and one of the top ranking members of the task Force,

897
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: where Manard says that he sent two witnesses over to

898
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: be interviewed by the Task Force and the task force

899
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: told these witnesses that Frankie Richard works for them. You

900
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: also have the witness statements that were taken by the

901
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: Jennings Police where the witnesses say that Frankie Richard worked

902
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: hand in hand with Chief criminal Investigator Warren Gary disposed

903
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: of DNA evidence in the Christin Garry Lopez case. So

904
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: Frankie is deeply connected to the women, and he's deeply

905
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: connected the law enforcement. He's very much of the center

906
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: of this case. And he's spent accused of course, two

907
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: of the murders, Kristin Lopez and Whitney Boa. He was

908
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: charged in Kristin Lopez, he's never charged and Whitney do Ba.

909
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: The circumstances around the death of Whitney do Bo highly

910
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: suggestive he was involved because she was found in kind

911
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: of a swampy area that has a little crawfish ponds,

912
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: very very desolate area, and she was found on the

913
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: road near one of these ponds by a guy who

914
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: works kind of on the streets for Frankie Richard, and

915
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: the guy claimed to have found her and claims those

916
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: seen or something like a half mile away from where

917
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: she was um And it's it just seems highly implausible

918
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: that this guy would just suddenly pop up, you know,

919
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: in this desolate area where there's nothing around, and fine,

920
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: when you do, I don't winly happened through Frankie Chard too.

921
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: Actually at the same time, you know, maybe he actually

922
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: legitimately did. Because if he'd just gone out there and

923
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: disposed of the body and then turns around and says, hey,

924
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: I found a body, you know, I would tend to

925
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: associate myself from dead bodies, you know, I'm involved. What

926
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: one would think though, And that's the point, although there

927
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: is actually this odd kind of phenomenon of and I

928
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: have this in a case that I'm another case that

929
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm working on, where someone who's involved the murder finds

930
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: a body or claim to find a body, and they

931
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: believe that it will actually take suspicion off of them,

932
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You know, I go, well,

933
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: I just look at me. I'm part of the search party,

934
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: and I just happened to find this body. The man

935
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: who found Duba, his name is Jamie Trahan. He's a

936
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: very close associated Frankie Reech Shard, and he presented it

937
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: and I spoke to do was a number of people

938
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: in the do Wa family about the way Trahan presented

939
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: himself to them after finding her body. And you know,

940
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: he presented it as, oh, I was just out here

941
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: and you know, I want to I'm just trying to help,

942
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: and I'm you know, I'm so sorry, and and and

943
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 1: at one point he even offered to put down quite

944
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: a bit of money to help pay for her funeral extent,

945
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: which the doo Bos family also found incredibly suspicious. That

946
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, you would think if you had any involvement

947
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: in something like this, you'd want to be nowhere near it,

948
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: especially if you were somebody was so closely connected to

949
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: Frankie re Shark. But I think some sometimes people think

950
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: that by presenting themselves is like, oh, that's like innocent

951
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: person who happened stumble upon this horrible thing that that

952
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: that that moves the spotlight off of them some ways, Yeah,

953
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me. But yeah, and and you know,

954
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: as we're talking about Frankie Richard's associates, I remember you

955
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: had there was a part in there where you were

956
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: talking about Brittany Gary when uh and the three men

957
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: that were seeing leaving the woods where she was found.

958
00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: What was it? Irvin Eugene and Ricardo. Yeah, that was

959
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: actually not that was Crystal Shade ben Wah. That was

960
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: a different victim. Yeah, And and three men we're seeing

961
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: she was found in this wooded area on the outscripts

962
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: of Jennings, and three men closely associated with the restart

963
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: we're seeing were leaving the wooded area after her murder.

964
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: And the man who saw them was a man named

965
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: Rousel carry a and carry a mysteriously was run over

966
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: by a train and Jennings Yeah, yeah, as soon after that,

967
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: witness identification and law enforcement said it was a suicide

968
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: and his family does not believe it was a suicide.

969
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,439
Speaker 1: Now did he say did he? At one point, I'm

970
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm racking my brain here, I thought that when he

971
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: was making this Eavens, did he tell somebody else that

972
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: he was trying to figure out who had done it?

973
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: And he had almost figured it out. That was the

974
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: other guy that was the brother of one of the

975
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't yet another person Actually yeah, that was a

976
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: drug dealer named Harvey bird Dog Burleigh who was a

977
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: very close, very close to the due Boas family. And

978
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: he said that he was working the streets and gathering

979
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: tips on the homicides, and then he was stabbed to

980
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: death and Jennings and his murder he was death and

981
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: Jennings I believe in two thousand and seven, and his

982
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: murders unsolved as well. Yeah, I was gonna say quickly.

983
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: That's another piece of his story that's so fascinating, which

984
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: is you have eight unsolved homicides in a town of

985
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: ten thousand people, which is extraordinary, exactly eight homicides and

986
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: that side of the town is extraordinary in itself, but

987
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: the fact that all of them are unsolved more extraordinary.

988
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: But what has even another level of craziness to this,

989
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: to this story, is you have homicides like bird dogs

990
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: that are unsolved, and there's quite a few of them.

991
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: So if you were to add up the eight women

992
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: plus the other unsolved homicides in town over the past

993
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: decade or so, comes close to twenty. Oh. Yeah, I

994
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: didn't really do it was that high. Yeah, it's really

995
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: just truly remark what and I can say, and I've

996
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: been writing about crime and working in this field for

997
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: a very long time, never seen anything like this anywhere.

998
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: And they're both in terms of the levels of law

999
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: enforcement corruption and the number of homicides and the number

1000
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: of unsolved timicide it's not just popular. It doesn't sound

1001
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: like they solved any homicides ever in that town. They

1002
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: actually had a homicide early this year that they solved. Yeah,

1003
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: that's pretty unusual. My interest in this story actually this

1004
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: had to be taken out of peace just for Space Tree,

1005
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: and was really began in two thousand and eleven. I

1006
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: was out there um and visiting with Kirkmanard, the private investigator,

1007
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: just to get a sense of the story. And actually

1008
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: within days of being out there, UM there was a

1009
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 1: murder of of of a drug dealer Engenna named bow Legs.

1010
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: And I actually just met bow Legs the night before

1011
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: he was murdered, and you know, it was pretty amazing,

1012
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: and this had never happened to be before Right interviewed.

1013
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: Right was introduced to somebody in their murder the next day,

1014
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: and that that murder, which dates back to either June

1015
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: or July of two thousand and eleven, members also unsolved.

1016
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: And bow Legs also, by the way, dated at least

1017
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: two of the women who were killed in this case.

1018
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: That when you intervated bow Legs, did he give you

1019
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 1: any any useful information? And it was it was just

1020
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: a introducing kind of introduce, very brief introduction to him.

1021
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: I didn't actually interview that um my trip back then,

1022
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: which was just essentially meeting people. Um so the Legs

1023
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: wasn't saying a powder keg of information and he had

1024
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: to be silenced. More likely he was, you don't think so.

1025
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: I think he was, you know, a casulty as some

1026
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: sort of drug beef. But but you know, his murders

1027
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: in solved, just like the rest of them, which is interesting. Now,

1028
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: another another piece in this whole story is that I

1029
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: believe in correct me if I'm wrong. Here's that of

1030
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: these eight women, a number of them were present at

1031
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: a police shooting prior to their deaths, and so we're

1032
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: all of them are just a couple of them. I

1033
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: thought it was just one, just a couple of them, Yeah,

1034
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: just just I've been able to confirm just one, which

1035
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: is Kristen Gary Lopez. I've heard though that it was

1036
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: two or perhaps three. Uh. It was a shooting from

1037
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: April of two thousand and five the Bots drug Rade

1038
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: in South Jennings that was carried out by the d

1039
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: a's Office Louisiana Probation and Parole. The Sheriff's office, and

1040
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 1: I believed the police department. They rated a drug house

1041
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: in South Jennings. Drug HOUSEE was like complete completely shrouded

1042
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: in darkness when they rated it. I don't think even

1043
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: the electricity was on. And for one, for some unknown reason,

1044
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: one of the probation and prowl agents opened fire on

1045
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: a man named Leonard Crochet, who apparently with us to say,

1046
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: had his hands up when he was when he was shot.

1047
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: But regardless of whether you know, there's dispeaed about whether

1048
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: or not he had his hands up. But but no

1049
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: one disputes the fact. Actually, and this is interesting because

1050
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: I obtained the Louisiana State Police report on an incident.

1051
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: No one, no one, no one disputes the fact that

1052
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: he was unarmed when he was shot to death. There

1053
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: was he had no weapons on him or near him,

1054
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: and he was shot to death. And at least one

1055
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: and perhaps more of the women who would later be

1056
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: killed were witnessed that incident. And I also know for

1057
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: a fact that, for example, Christin Gary Lopez, who was

1058
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: murdered two thousand and seven UM, she was brought in

1059
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: by cops and interviewed about it. I believe the Lauretta

1060
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: Cheffon murdered the first victim in two thousand and five.

1061
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: So there's a pattern of these women being being uh

1062
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: interviewed as witnesses and other homicides and then getting killed.

1063
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:41,479
Speaker 1: And and is there any connection or any thought that

1064
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 1: whatever statements they gave or what led to their death,

1065
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: if if we're going with the police are definitely deeply

1066
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: involved the responsible kind of aspect of it. Yes, I

1067
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,959
Speaker 1: believe so, I believe. I believe you know, I think

1068
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: you he has had an over and over again. And

1069
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: you see it with Lopez being interviewed in uh learn

1070
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 1: of Schafson. You see it in Laconia Brown who's a victim,

1071
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: and two thousand and eight she was interviewed about the

1072
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: two thousand and uh five homicide, or Mistine Patterson. You

1073
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: see that pattern over and over again where these women

1074
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: are witnesses. Then the other pattern that you see over

1075
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: and over again is that the women, just before they

1076
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:29,919
Speaker 1: were killed, I would say, I know who's doing this.

1077
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: The police are involved. I fear from my life, and

1078
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: many of them says I know I'm going to die,

1079
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: and then they will be killed. I sort of wonder

1080
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: why more than just leave towns are going to hiding

1081
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean I

1082
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 1: feel you know, you know, we're talking about the population

1083
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: that's like extremely poor and it has very very few options.

1084
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 1: So I think they were just sort of stuck where

1085
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: they were leaving option. Yeah, yeah, not a not an

1086
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: easy option. That said. One. One thing that's interesting to me,

1087
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: particularly since the piece came out and doing the investigation

1088
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: that I'm doing, just that there are quite a few

1089
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: survivors of that of that era who do know quite

1090
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: a bit and they're still you know, they're still around,

1091
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, so, um, they didn't get everybody. You know

1092
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: that there are a number of women who were in

1093
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: that scene who do know quite a bit about what happened,

1094
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: who are still Yeah, because the I wanted to bring

1095
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 1: me back. I wanted to come back for a minute

1096
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: to Danny Barry. You know, as you know, uh, Richard

1097
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: said that Barry was the killer because they all stopped

1098
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine when he died, correct, I believe, Yeah,

1099
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: I think he died in two thousand and ten, but yeah,

1100
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: but the last palmicide was two thousand and nine. Yeah,

1101
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Rechart as his own purpose for

1102
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 1: making that claim, which is it's him. My My sense

1103
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: of Danny Barry, especially from reading all the witness interviews

1104
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 1: about him that the Task Force conducted, is that Barry

1105
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 1: was deeply involved in the prostitution scene in South Jennings,

1106
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: which is where all these women were from. He would

1107
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: pick up these women and bring them back to his house,

1108
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: and at least one witness pass force witness talked about

1109
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 1: Barry having some sort of dungeon in his house with

1110
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: change and I assume that was one of the prostitutes

1111
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: that he took back home with him. Yeah, And I'm

1112
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: developing now, I don't have you know, I'm not there yet,

1113
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: but I'm developing information as I go about his involvement

1114
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 1: in the his puzzle involvement, I should say, and in

1115
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: the murder of Brindy Gary, the very young seventeen year

1116
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: old victims who was killed old in two thousand and eight. Well,

1117
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: and and his involvement. I mean, if we if we

1118
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: believe Richard the task Force, I understand it's kind of

1119
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: working on the assumption that it's you know, the one

1120
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: mad killer and he would fit that bill easily, wouldn't

1121
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: he if based on these statements of the dungeon. Barry

1122
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: would fit that bill for my investigation. I don't believe

1123
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,600
Speaker 1: that he is the killer. I don't believe and then

1124
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: I say this in the piece, that there is one killer.

1125
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a number of people. I think that

1126
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: you could cone in on Barry for at least one

1127
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 1: of the homicides. But I don't think that he's responsible

1128
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: for all of them, even though he fits as you say,

1129
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: if it's the bill, because he's deceased. He's a an

1130
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: easy mark. Correct, He's a very easy mark. Have you

1131
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: been able to talk to his widow? I haven't yet.

1132
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: Know that's something I want to do. I haven't yet

1133
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: talked at his widow. He gave a statement before he

1134
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: died to the task Force that was extremely unilluminating mode

1135
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: and it was unhelpful, primarily because the task Force is

1136
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: so terrible for conducting interviews. Um. He also told the

1137
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: task Force that his wife, now Wadow, was refusing to

1138
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: be interviewed by the task course. Now the private investigator, Kirkmanard,

1139
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: that's his name, correct, Correct? What what has been his contribution?

1140
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 1: Because I've seen stuff about him, but I'm not really

1141
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: clear on exactly what he's doing good. Question what Manard

1142
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 1: is doing, And I don't want to speak for him,

1143
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: but but this is my impression of what he's doing,

1144
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: is that he's able to talk to a number of

1145
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: people who pass would not talk otherwise, and he then

1146
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: forwards those people directly to the task Force. So essentially,

1147
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,640
Speaker 1: what he is is like a kind of a conduit

1148
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: between people on the street who might not feel comfortable

1149
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: going correct good to the task Force to what I'm saying,

1150
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: and it's kind of a neutral party for them. Yeah,

1151
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: he's kind of futral party, and and and that, and

1152
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 1: that's what he's doing. You know, he's in a very

1153
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 1: awkward position now though after he had sent these two

1154
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 1: witnesses to the task Force and they told these witnesses

1155
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,600
Speaker 1: things like Frankie Richard works for us. He's he's in

1156
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: an awkward position because I don't think he knows what

1157
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 1: to make of the task Force now. And I wouldn't

1158
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,640
Speaker 1: want to be in his position either, because it's a

1159
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 1: strange place to be sending witnesses to a task force

1160
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: that has a huge problem. You know what I mean,

1161
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean to me, to me, the task Force, which

1162
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: is dominated by the sheriff's office. By the way, um

1163
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: and I mentioned that in the piece, really is not

1164
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: to be has zero credibility in my in my view,

1165
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: because what you have is a task force that's dominated

1166
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 1: by the sheriff's office taking witness statements, and in the

1167
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: witness statements, the witnesses are saying Deputy so and so

1168
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: and Deputy so and so are involved in the homicides,

1169
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 1: and the people taking those statements are co workers of

1170
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 1: the people implicated in the murders. It's really it's just,

1171
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's couldn't be more of a clear conflict

1172
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: of interest, and it couldn't be more of a clear problem, uh,

1173
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, a huge problem. You know, how is a

1174
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: task force supposed to conduct an investigation when all of

1175
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: their friends and coworkers, you know, I'm sorry, when their

1176
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: friends and co workers are are suspects. So, you know,

1177
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's a huge problem, and I think the

1178
01:13:55,240 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: task force is kind of v problem. And in making

1179
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: any headway in this case, you just can't tell me

1180
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 1: that the task force can investigate its own It's just

1181
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: it's just not possible. And you know, so that's the problem,

1182
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 1: is there is there any occation that the governor's office

1183
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: has gotten any interest in this, or that the FBI

1184
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: perhaps would come in and take over the investigation. It's

1185
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: a good question, you know, from from the state side.

1186
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 1: After my peace ran a local news station out there,

1187
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: asked the Attorney General, the Louisiana Attorney General, Buddy Caldwell,

1188
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 1: you know they're doing anything, and you just sort of

1189
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: punted on the question and said, oh, well, you know,

1190
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: there's the task Force and that's what we're doing. Okay. Now.

1191
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: The FBI side is interesting and also very depressing in

1192
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: the sense that the task Force is depressing because when

1193
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 1: you look at the task Force interviews, it has obviously

1194
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: the name of the interviewing, you know, slash witness, and

1195
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: then it also has the names of law enforcement folks

1196
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 1: who are present during this interview. I will say, like,

1197
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, Witness Ethan Brown present, Deputy you know so

1198
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: and so, and then Deputy so and so, and then

1199
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: occasionally it will say, um that an FBI agent is present,

1200
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,759
Speaker 1: and these are FBI agents from the Lake Charles office

1201
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: and Lake Charles and Calcasie Parish which is next to

1202
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: Jeff Davis Parish. And many times when the FBI agents

1203
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: are present. There are very clear allegations of law enforcement

1204
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: involvement in the murders being made by witnesses, and the

1205
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: FBI agents are present for you know, when these allegations

1206
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: are made, and what's happening there, what is the FBI

1207
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: doing about this? Because any kind of misconduct is about

1208
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: under the sun by law enforcement can be prosecuted federally,

1209
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: and there's a statute, there's a federal statute called deprivation

1210
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 1: of rights under the color of law. So if I'm

1211
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 1: a cop, wish to say, I live in New Orleans

1212
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: and i'm and I'm an n OPD cop, and I

1213
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: walk outside my house and I see somebody jaywalking right

1214
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: and I grabbed them and I you know, kick his

1215
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 1: head in. That can be prosecuted federally. You know, if

1216
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: I'm a cop, If I'm a cop and I go

1217
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 1: out to a crime scene and I dispose of evidence,

1218
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 1: that can be prosecuted federally. I mean, there's so many

1219
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: entryways into this case federally, and it's stunning to me

1220
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: that none are taken. And it's particularly given the fact

1221
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: again that I know for a fact, because I've seen

1222
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: the interviews that FBI agents are present when allegations of

1223
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: law enforcement misconduct are made. So I but I can't answer.

1224
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why nothing is happening, but I do

1225
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 1: know that the FBI is aware of it. Have you

1226
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 1: tried to reach out to them or they just ignoring

1227
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,759
Speaker 1: you or I have I do know for a fact

1228
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: that the U. S. Attorney's Office in the Western District

1229
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,839
Speaker 1: of Louisiana is looking at This is a where I

1230
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: don't know what they're doing. Again, like it's it's a

1231
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 1: mystery to me, my guest, and this is only my guess,

1232
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 1: is that the local FBI office out in Lake Charles.

1233
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: I fear that they're close with, you know, many of

1234
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: the law enforcement folks that are under a cloud of

1235
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 1: suspicion on this, and that they're not moving as a

1236
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 1: result of that. You know, although again I should I

1237
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: should say it, it's really complicated. You know, there was

1238
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot of police misconduct during an after

1239
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: Katrina in New Orleans, and it took years for those

1240
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:06,639
Speaker 1: cases to go federal. Why did it take as long

1241
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 1: as it did for those cases to go federal? What

1242
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: was the what was the route right that that those

1243
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 1: cases took exactly? You know, I don't know. I'm not

1244
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody knows other than people who work

1245
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: for the U. S. Attorney's Office down here. Yeah, no,

1246
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: but nobody. But then it's pretty to that sort of information.

1247
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 1: Why did it take as long as it take, you know,

1248
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 1: as it took? You know, it could be nothing more

1249
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 1: sinister than government inertia, you know, how to ponderous the

1250
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: federal government can be. Sometimes it might be that simple. Yeah,

1251
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: And it's also it might be as simple as you know,

1252
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 1: product of bad discretion in kinds of the case, in

1253
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 1: terms of the cases they pursued. You know, why do

1254
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: they pursue this and not that they have a lot

1255
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,640
Speaker 1: of discretion there, So it could be simple something simple discretion.

1256
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know,

1257
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 1: you know, what the doing, you know. I think that

1258
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,560
Speaker 1: I know that under Eric Holder, police misconduct is a

1259
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: big priority for d J to prosecute. I know that,

1260
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:16,120
Speaker 1: um so I hope that this would catch their attention

1261
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 1: because of that priority. But it hasn't me get as

1262
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 1: far as I know now. It might be too that

1263
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: they've actually reviewed it pretty carefully and realized that there's

1264
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:26,080
Speaker 1: no way they can come out of it looking good

1265
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,680
Speaker 1: because they can take over the case. But let's face it,

1266
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of conflicting information and doesn't

1267
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: there appear to be hardly any physical evidence, um, and

1268
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 1: so let's and of course the trail is very cold.

1269
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: The last murder was five years ago, so the possibility

1270
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 1: of the Fed's coming in and you know, on their

1271
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: white horse and actually solving these murders is pretty limited.

1272
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 1: So maybe for that reason alone, they realize it's not

1273
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: a case that's going to cover them with glory. It's

1274
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 1: going to be a case that they'll take over the

1275
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: great fanfare and then grind along for a few years

1276
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: and then not solve either coact. I mean it is.

1277
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 1: It is a very complicated case, a lot of narrativeness

1278
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: and completely uncomftable witnesses, and you know, they are old cases,

1279
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 1: which makes them harder to sell. You know. All of

1280
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 1: that said, I do think that they they do have

1281
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: a number of ways in particularly when it comes to

1282
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, federal cases in particular, are are are all

1283
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: built on flipping people against one another, and I think

1284
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: in this case, you have quite a few people who

1285
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 1: could be easily slipped. Being one, I think and there's

1286
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 1: quite a few others. When the Fed's prosecuted the n

1287
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 1: op D misconduct cases, they would get people, you know,

1288
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: they would haul people before a federal grand jury, and

1289
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 1: if one of the cops engaged in the sort of

1290
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 1: flying and that that they had engaged in the past,

1291
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: they would get a federal charge with going up for

1292
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: a federal grandjury and lying is a federal crime. Yeah,

1293
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 1: so so yeah, I mean, I don't know. I I

1294
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:14,160
Speaker 1: feel like the FED wield such an incredible hammer no

1295
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 1: matter who they're going after that that it's doable well,

1296
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:21,600
Speaker 1: and that that gets to the question for you, which is,

1297
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: do you think that any of these will actually ever

1298
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 1: be solved? Good question. I like, don't believe the task

1299
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 1: force of the world will ever solve them. I do

1300
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 1: believe the only hope in this case would be federal

1301
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: interest do o J interest, and specifically interest from the

1302
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: DOJ Civil Rights Division, which goes after law enforcement is conduct.

1303
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: I think that's the only way. Now will that happen?

1304
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I think that's that's yeah. Yeah,

1305
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 1: it seems unlikely because so you know, this has been

1306
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 1: going on for a long time and they haven't they

1307
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: haven't stepped in. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Okay,

1308
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: Well that's that's our interview with Ethan, And yeah, I

1309
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed listening to that. Yeah that, I

1310
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: mean that that is a lot of information and it's

1311
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: it's hard to digest it. And by the way, a

1312
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 1: lot of thanks to Ethan again for absolutely making the

1313
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 1: time to talk to us. Yeah, no, I mean, I know,

1314
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: it took us a while to catch up with him,

1315
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that he was able to move the

1316
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: schedule around to do it, because it really, I think

1317
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 1: it it does this story a lot of justice to

1318
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 1: get all of the information straight from the proverbial source,

1319
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 1: and Ethan really kind of has been the source here

1320
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 1: as he talked about you know, nobody thought he was

1321
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: doing the story he was doing, so even the details

1322
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: they gave. Yeah, and it's interesting to fall out for him.

1323
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 1: It is like, you know, at first everybody was willing

1324
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: to talk to him, and now some people are a

1325
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: little ticked off with him, and he's got tread lightly

1326
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 1: around some people be a little more careful and a

1327
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 1: little more circumspect now now I think Joe Joe had

1328
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: mentioned this before is Ethan has been working on this

1329
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 1: for a good while and as he said, the original

1330
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: article he wanted to submit with thirty thousand words. The

1331
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 1: article that's up is eight thousands. So that's a huge

1332
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 1: amount of information. And he has he's since gotten the

1333
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: book deal. He's gotten a book deal. I don't think

1334
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: we've talked about that yet, and it's it's on the

1335
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: order of a hundred thousand words. But so there's the

1336
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: book deal and then there's some other things. Oh, I guess.

1337
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't necessarily pertain to Ethan so much

1338
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 1: as it pertains to this kind of vague speculation that

1339
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 1: the TV series, the HBO TV series True Detective, which

1340
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: some of you may or may not be familiar with,

1341
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: is loosely based on this story. Um, and I think

1342
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: it's fair to say that it's not. It doesn't you know,

1343
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: derive facts from this story or anything like that. But

1344
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 1: I definitely, you know, in the I saw I I

1345
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:55,800
Speaker 1: watched True Detective as it was on, you know, coming

1346
01:23:55,840 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: out originally, So I guess it's been gosh, I'm gonna say,

1347
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: four or five months since, um, the last episode of

1348
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:08,839
Speaker 1: the first season aired and immediately, you know, I've vaguely

1349
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: been aware of Jefferson Davis eight or the Jennings eight,

1350
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: But as soon as I started really getting into it,

1351
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 1: I just kept thinking, this sounds so much like true,

1352
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: just the like vague ideas of you know, X number

1353
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 1: of murders, the like weird in a parish in Louisiana,

1354
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: the kind of weird twisted people of the whole situation. Yeah,

1355
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: and also the you know, not to to do spoilers

1356
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: or anything, but also like a certain amount of potential

1357
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,599
Speaker 1: police involvement and how much that allegation may or may

1358
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 1: not be true. And you know, I think if you

1359
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 1: haven't watched Your Detective and you have any kind of

1360
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 1: stomach four things like this, watch it just like immediately.

1361
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,600
Speaker 1: But I think it's also very interesting the parallels you

1362
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 1: can draw between these things. Absolutely, and I think that

1363
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 1: we should probably you know that that was part of

1364
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,160
Speaker 1: our interview, and we haven't. We haven't shared that with

1365
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 1: everybody yet, but let's let's share that part of the

1366
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 1: interview with Ethan where he talks about some of that stuff. Yeah,

1367
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:17,759
Speaker 1: and actually I should mentioned on one thing. I've definitely

1368
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 1: mention it. I think I briefly mentioned this, but I

1369
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,439
Speaker 1: should be more specific about it. I have a book

1370
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 1: deal with Scribner, which is a division of Simon and Schuster,

1371
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 1: write a book about this, and it's I'm quite excited

1372
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: about it for a number of reasons. One, the original

1373
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: draft that I turned in for the piece was almost

1374
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:43,160
Speaker 1: thirty thousand words and what ran was about eight pounds,

1375
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 1: So you know, I've got a lot of stuff that

1376
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: I have not used at all, and a lot of

1377
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:53,719
Speaker 1: material that I'm still developing. So it's exciting for that reason.

1378
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:59,760
Speaker 1: And it's also exciting because um Scribner publishes Nick Kitzlato,

1379
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: the Heat Creator a True Detective, and a lot of

1380
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: people have noted the similarities between True Detective Season one

1381
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: and the Jeff Davis eight case. I don't think actually

1382
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 1: that I think the similarities are really due to the

1383
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: fact that it's the same, no you. I don't think

1384
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 1: that it's that it's Pits Alato being inspired by one

1385
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 1: specific case. But I think it's very similar, no you.

1386
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: But regardless of it's a cool it's a very exciting

1387
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,920
Speaker 1: thing to both people to expand on a piece that

1388
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:35,200
Speaker 1: was extremely expansive when I turned it in, and then

1389
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 1: also and then also to be with the publisher that

1390
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:40,719
Speaker 1: you know did did great things with Nick pits Alatto.

1391
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: So um and and people shouldn't if you think the

1392
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: case is sprawling after reading eight thousand words of a way,

1393
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 1: do you read nearly a hundred thousands? Yeah? I did this,

1394
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, somewhat with my first book, a book called

1395
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: Queen's Ring Supreme, which is which I which random I

1396
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: was published. But but this case is so complicated that

1397
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 1: I could actually see a gigantic kind of outline of

1398
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:17,679
Speaker 1: the cast of characters coming at the beginning of the book.

1399
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 1: Um that the number of characters and uh that I'm

1400
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: going to explore in the in the book is just

1401
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: going to be seen. And when when do you think

1402
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 1: that book is is going to be out? Do you

1403
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 1: have a date yet? I don't. My guess would be

1404
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen. Okay, you got a title plan

1405
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: for you yet? I do? Yes, I do have actually

1406
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 1: a very queer battle plan. Um. I have. As I said,

1407
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:51,080
Speaker 1: I have been doing quite a bit of investigation since

1408
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 1: the piece came out, and I've also identified a case

1409
01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 1: from Calcusu Parish in the nineties that I believe is

1410
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:04,800
Speaker 1: sort of the door opener to this case. Um, which

1411
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:07,720
Speaker 1: is going to be fascinating to people, I think. And

1412
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: then I've also got new sources. Not I don't mean

1413
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: individuals or people, I mean actual sources, like you know,

1414
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 1: in the sense of like the past force documents that

1415
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 1: I got for the piece. I have new new sources

1416
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: that are witness interviews and what not to to pour

1417
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 1: over that are just that are going to that are huge,

1418
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, cass of information that I'm going to be

1419
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: able to utilize as well. It should be really interesting. Yeah,

1420
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: we can't wait to read the book. Yeah, well, I

1421
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,400
Speaker 1: I don't know about the pair of you, but I'm

1422
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 1: definitely definitely glad that we got to talk to Ethan's

1423
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: just earlier. And I'm definitely looking forward to when the

1424
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 1: book comes out. I think that it's going to be

1425
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 1: definitely it's gonna be a patron But I don't think

1426
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: in the sense that I can't stop reading as and

1427
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna be turning the pages and then

1428
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 1: going back and turning the page back and checking because

1429
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 1: this is going to be there's so many players in

1430
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: this and it's gonna be so hard to track, and

1431
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be absurdly interesting. But such a

1432
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: He does a great job. You know, his article is

1433
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: really great at succinctly laying out what's going on. It's

1434
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: it's easy to follow what's kind of going on in

1435
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 1: this case. That's just a tangled rama. Yeah, it's a

1436
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:37,479
Speaker 1: bol of spaghetti. But yeah, yeah, it's probably one of

1437
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: those books where you want to make notes as you

1438
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:42,840
Speaker 1: go along, especially names of people and their relationships and

1439
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately we don't have a

1440
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: title because he didn't tell us what the title of

1441
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: the world is and maybe have done that on purpose. Yeah, yeah,

1442
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 1: maybe he doesn't have a title yet. Maybe he hasn't

1443
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,719
Speaker 1: quite decided exactly what it's going to be. Maybe bodies

1444
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 1: in the Buy You or Buy You Full of Bodies,

1445
01:29:58,240 --> 01:29:59,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, he's got a couple of years

1446
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 1: to to get a year ago, so well let's let's

1447
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 1: I I just want to know what you know. We

1448
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 1: haven't really dove into personal theories so far. We've we've

1449
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 1: kind of been relying on the information we've got from

1450
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,400
Speaker 1: Ethan and we know what we've read. But I want

1451
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,680
Speaker 1: I want to know what you guys think. I know

1452
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 1: what my theories are, but what have you what have

1453
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 1: you go ahead and start us off, and you want

1454
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:29,360
Speaker 1: to go ahead, Joe, Okay, the murderer is drum roll please,

1455
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 1: Nicole the cold gillery uh died or what's her body

1456
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: was sound August two thousand nine. I think she murdered

1457
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:43,879
Speaker 1: all the rest of them and then she died apparently

1458
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,520
Speaker 1: of asphyxia, they think. So. I think she auto asphyxiated

1459
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: and threw her threw herself into the bayou. So you're

1460
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 1: you're you're just going for you don't have a real

1461
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 1: idea and you're just making something pretty much. Yeah, you know,

1462
01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: it could have been it could have been the owner

1463
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: of the boot row in who was really ticked off

1464
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 1: that all these women cause so much, so much of

1465
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 1: a fuss, and that his place got closed down. I

1466
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,679
Speaker 1: think his place would have got closed down. Yeah, thanks,

1467
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 1: so yeah, but but it's really hard to say. I mean,

1468
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 1: it's there are a lot of questionable characters in this town.

1469
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:20,719
Speaker 1: A lot of them have peripheral involvement in this story,

1470
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: and they're also at the same time involved in the

1471
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 1: drug trade. So okay, so when you're in prostitution, that

1472
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 1: makes you kind of uniquely vulnerable. Right then you put

1473
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 1: yourself into a lot of bad situations. And then also

1474
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:38,639
Speaker 1: but when you're also involved in the drug trade, as

1475
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: most of them seem to be, then that's that's a

1476
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: whole another layer of motives from murder. There. So it's

1477
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:47,840
Speaker 1: really really hard to say. And of course I don't

1478
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 1: want to commit liabel or anything like that, so I'm

1479
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 1: not gonna say, and frankly I don't I don't really know.

1480
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just there's just so much going on

1481
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: here and there's no real hard evidence against anybody. Yeah,

1482
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:05,599
Speaker 1: so I'm going to go with space aliens. Okay, still

1483
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 1: my theoryard people, Okay, Okay, you can have space aliens.

1484
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's the same person who did

1485
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,599
Speaker 1: the Hagley Woods thing, the body down in the tree. Okay, Devin,

1486
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 1: what you know? Again, just like Joe, I don't necessarily

1487
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: want to commit any kind of libel. I only know

1488
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:34,639
Speaker 1: what has been published. But in my estimation, I guess

1489
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 1: you look for the common denominators, and you know, you've

1490
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:43,519
Speaker 1: got drugs and prostitution, and it's a small community, and

1491
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,840
Speaker 1: so okay, fine, those are all common denominators, but they're

1492
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 1: also all tied to this Frankie Richard, guy who I

1493
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 1: find to be super creepy, and there's been depositional testimony

1494
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 1: it seems to the fact that he has a violent stree,

1495
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 1: particularly when high and people say no to him. And

1496
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 1: you know, I again, I don't want to say it's

1497
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 1: it's definitely this person. I don't have access to all

1498
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 1: the evidence. You know, it's they're open cases, so there's

1499
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that the just general public cannot know.

1500
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 1: And you know, as Ethan said, some people in the

1501
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 1: Task Force have said, Richard is is an inform he

1502
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: works for us, so you know, so, and it's just

1503
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: one of those cases of like, I don't know who

1504
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 1: to believe, but my gut instinct is to say that

1505
01:33:37,439 --> 01:33:41,679
Speaker 1: it's him. But you know, the thing that's the most

1506
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:44,679
Speaker 1: frustrating about this, I you know, this this little TV

1507
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: spot that I watched, and you know, one of the

1508
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:48,880
Speaker 1: locals said, the thing that's most frustrating about this is

1509
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:53,600
Speaker 1: that somebody knows who killed all these women. May not

1510
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 1: be the same person. It may be a syndication, it

1511
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:59,400
Speaker 1: maybe a group of people, but at least one person

1512
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 1: knows each one person. Yeah, and maybe that the murders

1513
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: are not not actually all that interconnected, and it might

1514
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 1: be there is no single one person who knows who

1515
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: killed all those true, But you know, as far as

1516
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:12,120
Speaker 1: Frankie Schard goes, like, for example, he was accused by

1517
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 1: Tracy Chasson of murdering along with Hannah Connor, of murdering

1518
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: Dubois in front of her. And that's that was her accusation,

1519
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,400
Speaker 1: and so why that's why he was charged with that initially.

1520
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 1: But but when you think about it, her story makes

1521
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 1: no sense because you know, here he is committing murder

1522
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 1: right in front of this person. It's like, you know

1523
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: what it is about Tracyson that makes Frankie Chard and

1524
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,040
Speaker 1: his god niece Hannah Connor believed that they can commit

1525
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 1: murder right in front of her And it's perfectly okay.

1526
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 1: And she's not going to say anything to anybody. Don't know.

1527
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 1: I I I hate to say, but I think I

1528
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:56,920
Speaker 1: can answer that question, which is herug adult No, no,

1529
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 1: not at all. Is when you're in a small town

1530
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:02,800
Speaker 1: own again, I've I've seen these kind of communities and

1531
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 1: I've been around, I've been you know, I've lived in

1532
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:09,760
Speaker 1: these places as you know everybody, and hey, can I

1533
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:12,760
Speaker 1: trust you can I vouch for you. I've done things

1534
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 1: for you, and you've done things for me, and you

1535
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:17,799
Speaker 1: know you're not gonna say anything, and I'll do favors

1536
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 1: for you down the line. So you scratch my back,

1537
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: I scratch yours. Kind of mentality that I don't have

1538
01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:27,759
Speaker 1: the exact way. I mean, this would take a long

1539
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 1: time to suss out, but I think that if you

1540
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:37,559
Speaker 1: have somebody so scared of you, I mean, think about

1541
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 1: let's look at people who are, um, you know, abducted,

1542
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 1: and they're so afraid, like kids, they're so afraid of

1543
01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: the person that that has abducted them that they can

1544
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 1: brainwash them. Is the word I want to use into saying, yeah,

1545
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 1: saying don't tell anybody or I will go kill your

1546
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,840
Speaker 1: mom and dad. That that kind of that kind of

1547
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:04,519
Speaker 1: influence over somebody. So I can see how that that

1548
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 1: maybe the reason that he if if indeed Richard is

1549
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 1: responsible for this particular murder, I can see how he

1550
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:13,519
Speaker 1: could have gone. He could have done it in front

1551
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:15,799
Speaker 1: of her and said, well, you're not going to talk

1552
01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 1: because you know if you talk, I will come after you.

1553
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:21,080
Speaker 1: But then you don't want me after you, But then

1554
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, but then she did talk, and she didn't

1555
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 1: wind up murdered. She talked, she didn't wind up murdered

1556
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:31,640
Speaker 1: because a bunch of evidence against him disappeared, Right, I mean,

1557
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, it's not a solid theory. I'm not

1558
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 1: saying that I have any kind of thing, but I'm

1559
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: just saying that I think her story is not entirely credible,

1560
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 1: which is fair. And then there's a lot there's a

1561
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 1: lot of things in this story that don't make sense.

1562
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:49,120
Speaker 1: And like when we talk to Ethan, is the whole

1563
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:53,320
Speaker 1: thing about the Chevy Silverado and supposedly transporting in the

1564
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 1: body of Lewis, which does not make any sense if

1565
01:36:57,320 --> 01:36:59,519
Speaker 1: if they murdered her by the canal and she's found

1566
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: in the canal, why they put her in a drum

1567
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:05,760
Speaker 1: and drive her around? And then although Ethan did say

1568
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 1: that there's it's not a certain that she was actually

1569
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 1: murdered by the canal, right, but the whole thing about

1570
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 1: it is is trans You know, if you murder somebody

1571
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,760
Speaker 1: and transport them around your pickup truck, then what you

1572
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:20,439
Speaker 1: do is when you get home, you get out the

1573
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 1: garden hose and he hose out the back real good

1574
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: and get the blood in the DNA of you and

1575
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:28,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of people understand that, but not everybody

1576
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 1: thinks about that, especially if not all the cylinders are firing.

1577
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:38,400
Speaker 1: Because your high as a kite on something welleta means

1578
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, you don't think about these things.

1579
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,759
Speaker 1: You get around a tweaker, they do some weird stuff

1580
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 1: because they think that they know what they're doing. It's true.

1581
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:49,880
Speaker 1: But but and then if you have this and one

1582
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,479
Speaker 1: of the things about the truck, it was bought by

1583
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 1: one of the local cops for a below market price,

1584
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,240
Speaker 1: and then he took it to the car wash, and

1585
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, detailed it all out, supposed destroying evidence in

1586
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 1: the meantime, Well, if you want to destroy evidence in

1587
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: the back of your pickup truck, you don't need to

1588
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:09,479
Speaker 1: sell the pickup truck to a local cop to take

1589
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 1: to the car wash. You can just take it to

1590
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:14,479
Speaker 1: the car wash herself. Well, except for that person was

1591
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:19,479
Speaker 1: in jail, weren't they. Oh yeah, but I'm not sure

1592
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: how much I know she had been Yeah, Siler, I

1593
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:23,840
Speaker 1: know she had been charged, but I don't know that

1594
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: she was in jail at the time. But but I mean,

1595
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,320
Speaker 1: this is this is the problem with this case, there's

1596
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 1: so many weird lips. Now. Personally, I think that some

1597
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 1: of the murders are connected. I don't think they're all connected, because,

1598
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: as we talked about in the interview with Ethan, I

1599
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 1: tends I think it's I ten is right there, and

1600
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,760
Speaker 1: so it's a major thoroughfare, and so I think that

1601
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 1: it's not on. It's not an uncommon thing to discover

1602
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:52,559
Speaker 1: that we've got a trucker who killed a woman, so

1603
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: I think that that might be part of it. I

1604
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 1: think the drug trade is part of it. I think

1605
01:38:56,840 --> 01:39:00,640
Speaker 1: that just weird interconnections. I think this whole thing is

1606
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 1: a cesspot and there's a lot of not good things

1607
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: going on. But I also think that in this small community,

1608
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 1: you're right, as we said before, everybody knows, at least

1609
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: somebody knows, but they all have their reasons for not

1610
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:22,519
Speaker 1: I believe the phrase is snitching. You don't snitch, Well,

1611
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,760
Speaker 1: there's a good reason not to snitch, because when you snitch,

1612
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 1: retribution comes down. Well, because especially in this case, it

1613
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:32,080
Speaker 1: does appear, as I said earlier, that there is a

1614
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 1: mole in the police department. The police are corrupt, and

1615
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 1: I think everybody knows that if they snitched, you know,

1616
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,040
Speaker 1: the cops are going to immediately inform on them. Yeah,

1617
01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of these women, as we

1618
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 1: talked about in the interview, they were afraid to talk

1619
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:47,919
Speaker 1: because or they knew that they had talked and they

1620
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:49,720
Speaker 1: made a mistake and it was going to come back.

1621
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 1: I think just by the sheer fact that I think,

1622
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: you know, Ethan said there's something like twenty, but there's

1623
01:39:55,560 --> 01:40:01,639
Speaker 1: solid evidence for eleven at least unsolved histories or unsolved

1624
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 1: murders in a well, in a community of ten thousand.

1625
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 1: You know, at that point, it's it's clearly a systemic problem.

1626
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:13,559
Speaker 1: It is no longer just an anomaly of a weird

1627
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:18,400
Speaker 1: unsolved mystery. There's something larger going on. If that high

1628
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:23,639
Speaker 1: a percentage of murders are just unsolved for a lot

1629
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: a lot of years in a community that's small, because

1630
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 1: there are other let's be fair, there are other small

1631
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: communities of that size on huge interstates that are drug

1632
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:37,160
Speaker 1: trafficking havens. It's not you know, this Jennings is not

1633
01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 1: the only place on it ten in between Austin and

1634
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 1: New Orleans, right, is that what he said? Or wherever,

1635
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, wherever he is not the only small community

1636
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 1: that's just you know, inundated with drugs and violence and

1637
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 1: gang crime and things like that, but they are the

1638
01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:59,080
Speaker 1: only ones that have this kind of murders. Yeah, and

1639
01:40:59,120 --> 01:41:01,320
Speaker 1: so I think it's in this scary that is the scale.

1640
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 1: It's the it's the fact that there's somehow there is

1641
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 1: a systemic problem and where whether that is just like

1642
01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:09,799
Speaker 1: pure incompetence and stupidity on the part of the police

1643
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:13,800
Speaker 1: department there, or if it's something more sinister, that's hard

1644
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 1: to tell. But I think, you know, I just think

1645
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: that it's just this is just such a messed up Yeah,

1646
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:22,559
Speaker 1: I know, this this whole thing is is Yeah, it's

1647
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 1: it's awkward and it's hard to track. Yeah, Jennings is

1648
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: a scary little town. If I don't go to Jennings, well,

1649
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:31,719
Speaker 1: don't don't go there and try and dig up answers

1650
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,600
Speaker 1: on your own lass. Please stay home if you go,

1651
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:38,320
Speaker 1: if you go there, packy, don't packy. Just don't go.

1652
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:42,320
Speaker 1: Don't go there. Well. Again, as as we said before,

1653
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 1: Ethan's book is coming out next year and there should

1654
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:50,600
Speaker 1: be some more fun filled facts and the facts has

1655
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 1: been doing a lot more research, so you're gonna want

1656
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 1: to read that book. So when that book comes out

1657
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: and we find out what it's going to be, we

1658
01:41:56,479 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: will definitely put something up about it. But in the meantime,

1659
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:03,240
Speaker 1: all of the links and a good a good spot

1660
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: of the research that we did and we got access

1661
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 1: to about this story will be on our website. The website,

1662
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 1: as always, is going to be Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

1663
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,200
Speaker 1: You can read all the links there, you can find

1664
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: the PDF that helps kind of outline this story for you,

1665
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:22,559
Speaker 1: and of course you can listen to the story there

1666
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: as well. If you want, you can always go ahead

1667
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:29,439
Speaker 1: and stream the show. You can stream the show on Stitcher,

1668
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 1: so any mobile ready device, tablets, phones, whatever they may be,

1669
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:36,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to follow it all there. And

1670
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:38,880
Speaker 1: of course we're on Facebook, and I know a bunch

1671
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,799
Speaker 1: of you have been on Facebook and and we're getting

1672
01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: comments and all that good stuff and good conversations which

1673
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:47,559
Speaker 1: is a lot of fun. And if you haven't done

1674
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:49,719
Speaker 1: it yet, find us and friend us. And we've also

1675
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:52,639
Speaker 1: got a group there where we there's some discussions going

1676
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:56,000
Speaker 1: on and things being shared, which is always great. I

1677
01:42:56,040 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 1: liked our page, Yeah, I like our page a lot. Uh,

1678
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 1: you can, of course download if you don't want to

1679
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 1: use Stitcher and you don't want to use the website.

1680
01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:09,920
Speaker 1: The I know, it seems like the maturity of the folks.

1681
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: At least over half of you are using iTunes. You

1682
01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:16,559
Speaker 1: can use iTunes, find us on iTunes and just download

1683
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 1: the episodes for whenever you want them. And of course, last,

1684
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 1: but not least, if you have something you want to

1685
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 1: tell us, you've got story suggestions, you've got leads for us,

1686
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 1: you can do that all on our email, which is

1687
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. As a matter

1688
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 1: of fact, this story was suggested to us by a

1689
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 1: listener via emails. Thomas. Yeah, thanks, Thomas, thank you. And

1690
01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 1: at the same time I kind of regret you having

1691
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:50,080
Speaker 1: done that because I've we've just gotten so deep into

1692
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:52,920
Speaker 1: such a crazy story. No, it was very good. But

1693
01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 1: at the same yeah, I really am. I'm gonna keep

1694
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 1: making info graphics about this until the day I die.

1695
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:05,759
Speaker 1: That's probably true. It kind of might be now, Colonel

1696
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:10,519
Speaker 1: Mustard in the study with candle still is that your answer?

1697
01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you, Joe. I appreciate that. And before

1698
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:18,719
Speaker 1: we forget speaking of emails, we did get an email

1699
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 1: this week or we got well, I was gonna say, yeah,

1700
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:24,720
Speaker 1: we got an email this week that whatever I say that,

1701
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this one stood out. I really liked it.

1702
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: I really had a fun time. Yeah, so I didn't

1703
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:33,200
Speaker 1: know who wanted to read the email this week. I

1704
01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:35,680
Speaker 1: don't care. I'll read it. This email is from a

1705
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 1: guy named Jacob. Hi Jacob j H. Jacob. It says, Hi,

1706
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:43,920
Speaker 1: I really liked your show, and after finding it at

1707
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:47,799
Speaker 1: the start a sixteen hour drive, I proceeded to listen

1708
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:52,639
Speaker 1: to sixteen hours of thinking sideways. I'm so sorry. Jacob

1709
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:54,600
Speaker 1: act said the same thing too, but he said it

1710
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 1: was awesome. Didn't keep you awake to sleep. He says

1711
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:00,920
Speaker 1: it was a great man aar thon, and I really

1712
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 1: liked your interpretation of these events. I'm currently working as

1713
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:08,640
Speaker 1: a scientist, but still fall for imaginative or fantastic explanations

1714
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 1: for many stories that have rather than the logical choices.

1715
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 1: For example, I read about the love and past incident

1716
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 1: oh a while ago. Apparently I can't read today. I'm sorry,

1717
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 1: and could only conclude radiation and or monsters, which probably

1718
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 1: makes me a pretty expletive deleted scientist. Your walkthrough of

1719
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 1: the story using the avalanche hypothesis makes such great sense. Um,

1720
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 1: he has as everybody who emails us, almost everybody, he

1721
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,520
Speaker 1: has a little suggestion and he gives us his scientists

1722
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: take on it, which was really really interesting. No, no

1723
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:53,040
Speaker 1: on the story he suggested, Yeah, um, And then he

1724
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 1: goes on to say, I'd be happy to give you

1725
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:57,080
Speaker 1: my take on things if interested. Keep up the good work,

1726
01:45:57,160 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 1: and I hope you guys are finding a way to

1727
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:02,360
Speaker 1: get compensated for this h show. Well, we're working on

1728
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:07,639
Speaker 1: that one of these days. Should we put a tip

1729
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:13,839
Speaker 1: jar on our page? Yeah? I probably should, Yeah, we should. Anyways,

1730
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:16,759
Speaker 1: thank you, Jacob. I don't know what kind of scientists

1731
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:19,360
Speaker 1: you are. Maybe maybe Steve or I will follow up

1732
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 1: or Joe. Joe doesn't know how to do email, so bad.

1733
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:25,600
Speaker 1: I didn't ask you what kind of scientists you know.

1734
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: We may just need we just might need a residence science. No. Actually,

1735
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:31,840
Speaker 1: I think having a consulting scientist to be a good

1736
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:35,880
Speaker 1: a good idea. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Did

1737
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:40,640
Speaker 1: you say a scientist or scientologists? He said? Scientists? Okay, yeah, okay,

1738
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:46,560
Speaker 1: we don't need a resident. We got five of those already.

1739
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:50,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, all right, ladies and gentlemen. Well, that that

1740
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 1: is what we have on the Jefferson Davis eight I

1741
01:46:54,280 --> 01:46:57,000
Speaker 1: also known as the jennings A, the jennings A, I

1742
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:01,200
Speaker 1: hope sometimes the jeff Davis yeah us, Yeah, for the

1743
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,519
Speaker 1: j D eight if you want to be hip and

1744
01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: abbreviow or just anyway, Okay, Well, so I hope that

1745
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 1: while we didn't necessarily solve the issue, we might have

1746
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,960
Speaker 1: hopefully clarified some of the facts that you've heard about

1747
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 1: or you've read about, and it gives you a better

1748
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:24,759
Speaker 1: perspective on it, because I think in this particular story,

1749
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:28,479
Speaker 1: that's about the best we can do, because this one

1750
01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 1: is a long way from being solved, and I think

1751
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 1: even hit on the until we get some some big

1752
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:36,840
Speaker 1: government intervention, we're not going to get it. I don't

1753
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:38,479
Speaker 1: think that. I don't think the FBI is going to

1754
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:40,600
Speaker 1: solve this either. Don't think they're gonna step in, but

1755
01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:42,559
Speaker 1: they're not going to. But but it's a it's a

1756
01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:45,120
Speaker 1: cold trail, let's face it, you know, I mean. And

1757
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:47,160
Speaker 1: the problem is is all the witnesses and all the

1758
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:50,240
Speaker 1: people that come forward saying anything about it, well, a

1759
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 1: lot of are dead and but a lot of the

1760
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:54,400
Speaker 1: other ones that are a drug adult and not necessarily

1761
01:47:54,479 --> 01:48:00,439
Speaker 1: reliable people. So yeah, sort of important. Yeah. So other words,

1762
01:48:00,439 --> 01:48:02,639
Speaker 1: it's not just enough to get somebody to snitch on somebody.

1763
01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:05,360
Speaker 1: You need some actual physical evidence to I don't I

1764
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:08,440
Speaker 1: think that's all been sort of washed away or from

1765
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, the oldest one is nine years gone. That's

1766
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:15,479
Speaker 1: that's a hard I'm thinking it's not likely that this

1767
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:19,680
Speaker 1: is going to be solved. Yeah, Steve, Well, I did

1768
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:22,320
Speaker 1: you hear that I did? Did anybody else notice it? Yeah?

1769
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:25,920
Speaker 1: Joe has admitted that we have not solved a mystery.

1770
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 1: I'm always solved it. Somebody did it at a high

1771
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 1: level kind of you know, but a far specifics. I

1772
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:37,600
Speaker 1: think that I think that No, No, it's okay. You know,

1773
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 1: sideways can break this thing wide up. And but we

1774
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 1: need to go to Jennings and we're gonna need money,

1775
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,559
Speaker 1: so you guys send us money. Joe, can we just

1776
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:51,879
Speaker 1: go to Stoneheng instead? Yeah, we're going to go someplace.

1777
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:53,920
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, I picked another one. Let's

1778
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:57,640
Speaker 1: go to Hagley Woods. Okay, we'll go to one of

1779
01:48:57,640 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 1: those places. Okay, So listeners send us a bunch of

1780
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 1: running and then we'll go there on the spot and

1781
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 1: we'll solve the crap out of stuff. With that, we're

1782
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 1: going to wrap this up, so thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

1783
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed it, and we will bring another

1784
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:14,720
Speaker 1: one to you next week. All right, everybody, I'm sad

1785
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:17,680
Speaker 1: I can't blame aliens this time. I'm God, it's not

1786
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,320
Speaker 1: too late. Go ahead and blame them. It's the aliens,

1787
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:23,640
Speaker 1: all right, Eddie