1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Man. You know, uh in nine have been big years 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: for cults in in the modern media landscape. But we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: were we were diving into this stuff back in what 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, way before the cult renaissance that we're in 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: the midst of right now, well at least. Yeah, It's 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: like Ben said in the Spotlight before Nextium was a 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: big deal. Um. I hesitate to say the S word, 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: but that was around and we were talking about it too. Um, 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: you're you're gonna find a lot of stuff that you 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: didn't know in this episode, and stuff that they these 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: particular cults probably don't want you to know. Oh definitely. Yeah, 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: that's why we call this classic episode colts you've never 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: heard of? You know, hear versions of us uh, navigating 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: the difference between a cult and a religion and some 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: of the strangest cults in history, along with secret cults 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: of what was the modern day, from UFOs to ghosts 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: and government cover ups. History is writtled with unexplained events. 18 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: don't want you to now. Welcome back to the show. 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: My name is Matt and I'm Ben, and this is 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. As though you 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: didn't hear that in the title earlier, but that's okay. 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: We just want to make sure you know where you are, 24 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: because you know, it gets tough sometimes people get confused. 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: Where am I? What am I? Where are we going 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: in life? I know it's confusing, right, There are a 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: lot of questions and people there's no shortage of people 28 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: pretending to answer those questions, some of whom even believe it. 29 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: And it's funny that we're talking about this. Let's let's 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: jump right in. One of the great differences between human 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: beings and other animals is that human beings, unique among 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: all highly intelligent animals, seem to have this compole shan 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: to um find out more about life, to ask what 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: happens when we die? Now, we have seen evidence, of course, 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: that higher order animals are able to um acknowledge death 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: in some form. If a member of their pure groups dies. 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: You'll see elephants that more and they're dead. There are 38 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: also there have been instances of dolphins that carry their 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: dead babies long distances in the water. Yeah, and and 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: I think that's the next some point because it shows 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: it's not just primates, it's also citaceans. We also know 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: that UH. Many mammals have some sort of understanding of 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: that loss. Dogs famously, UH have can have difficulties when 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: a human that they have bonded with has passed away. 45 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: But according to current science, there's one thing that only 46 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: humans can do. Dolphins can't do it, elephants, dogs, even 47 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: crows which are scary smart uh. And that is contemplate 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: and afterlife a a entirely abstract world, whether dystopian or utopian, 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: that exists beyond the mortal plane. And that is why UM. 50 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: One of human beings. One of humanity's greatest either discoveries 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: or inventions, depending on how you look at it, is 52 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: the idea of religion. Right. And we haven't officially as 53 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: humans nailed down what what exactly happens yet at least 54 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: we haven't scientifically proven what happens. So there really any 55 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: any idea if it strikes personally with you, could be 56 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: persuasive enough for you to believe it. Yeah, and we 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: mean literally any idea, because in the absence of universally 58 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: agreed quantitative not qualitative proof of of a life after death, UM, 59 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: people's opinions can be just up for up for anything. 60 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: No one can really disprove a lot of this stuff, 61 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: but we also know that for a great deal of 62 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: human history, this these beliefs, which we will call religions 63 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: for most of this podcast, these beliefs, spiritual beliefs, religious 64 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: beliefs guided the course of human civilization. Yeah, sure, what 65 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Why Why would humans come together and live as a society? Um? 66 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: If there wasn't some kind of agreed upon reason to 67 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: be doing so other than procreation and the gathering of food. Um. 68 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: It seems as though we've been getting a lot of 69 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: people commenting on our on our video, especially the one 70 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: we made about how to start a cult, about how 71 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 1: society as a whole possibly was, or quite frankly most 72 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: likely was kind of the or originated as some kind 73 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: of of cults. Sure hunting party, uh. Layer begins to 74 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: acrete spiritual beliefs, and that could even have happened before 75 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: Homo sapiens. Um. This is this is a scary thing 76 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: for some people, especially if you consider yourself more of 77 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: an atheist or on the atheist side of the spiritual spectrum. 78 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: We know that early non Homo sapiens, early man, like 79 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: the the demo recording of Man, basically had before the 80 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: full album came out, Um already had some beliefs like 81 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: venerating the dead, um performing some sort of ritualistic burial 82 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: or commemoration. Now, because that stuff happens before the dawn 83 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: of recorded history, we don't really know how to uh 84 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: find the specifics of whatever their spiritual beliefs were. Um, 85 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: we've got a lot of smart people making a lot 86 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: of smart guests is and the reason that we're talking 87 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: now about the this ancient history and the fundamental importance 88 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: and unique ability that we call spiritual exploration. Um, it's 89 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: all because you and I recently did a series on cults. 90 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: We did and we found so much stuff it got 91 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: kind of dark to write, dark editing editing together that 92 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: and the current case episode was a harrowing experience, to 93 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: say the least. And you did a fantastic job on 94 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: that episode too. If there's anybody who happens to have 95 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: not seen that, I think the title of it is 96 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: uh child impersonation or cults child impersonation in the Czech Republic, 97 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: and it is entirely about a very strange cult sometimes 98 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: called the ants. And the way that we like to 99 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: do this stuff in these audio podcasts so far as 100 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: we like to be able to give a little bit 101 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: more back ground in context that we weren't able to 102 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: originally in the video just because of the length of 103 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: time or because of the tone. Um So, in this podcast, 104 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: what you and I are going to explore is the 105 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: nature of cults. What what makes something a cult? How 106 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: is a cult any different from a religion? And um 107 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: some great points that listeners brought up in the YouTube comments, Uh, 108 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: is it possible for things that are not spiritual on 109 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: the on the surface to also be cults? Which I 110 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: think is a great question. Um So, if you if 111 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: you'll mind, man, I've got a little bit of a definition. Alright. 112 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: So we know that the concept of occult um, at 113 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: least in academia, dates back to about nineteen thirty two. 114 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: A sociologist named Howard P. Becker uh said that, but 115 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: he based it as sort of an expansion of an 116 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: earlier guy's work, guy named Ernst Trolts. Yes, I don't 117 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: know if I made it out of that one alive 118 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: t R O. E. L. T. S. C. H. Trols 119 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: and uh Trolch had this typology where he was separated. 120 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: He was trying to separate um church versus sect, and 121 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: Becker originally said that occult was a small religious group, 122 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: lacking organization and emphasizing the private nature of personal beliefs. 123 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: Now we know that is not the modern definition of 124 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: a cult um. The modern definition of occult is um 125 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: outside of it exists outside of a predominant religion, right, 126 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: and it has uh some notable differences in comparison to 127 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: what we call religion proper. Now we know that there 128 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: are these other things called sects. And I said that, 129 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: so I don't accidently say, you know, sex but s 130 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: E C T s. Uh. These are the products of 131 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: religious disagreements. So they still have many of the same 132 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: beliefs and uh structures, They just they diverge in the 133 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: particulars they've had a schism at some point because of 134 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: maybe something. Um. What are some of the examples of that? UH. 135 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: Great one would be Martin Luther UM saying that people 136 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: could correspond directly with the divine rather than going through 137 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: any intermediary like some a member of the Catholic Church. 138 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: Another earlier example would be UM. When Christianity began and 139 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: people who traditionally followed Judaism UH said that they believed 140 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: that Jesus Christ was a divine, a messenger of the divine, 141 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: So this became in a way, it's still carried a 142 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: lot of the traditional beliefs, at least for a time, 143 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: associated with the earlier belief system, but a cult can 144 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: take some of that and does something totally new or 145 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: or it will be based upon at least a lot 146 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: of the ones that we found. We are based on 147 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: some kind of writing, some kind of document that kind 148 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: of that they take in as their manifesto of sorts 149 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: as they're kind of their brick and mortar structure for 150 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: what how they're going to base their beliefs upon, and 151 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: then they kind of make some changes here and there. 152 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: But um, it's pretty fascinating stuff. The one the Holy 153 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: Grail movement was really was interesting. The one that was 154 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: that we talked about in that Ferme case episode where 155 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: it's it's about the Holy Grail. The entire thing is 156 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: based upon this guy's book from I think nineties seven 157 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: around that the German Fellow. Forget his name, but if 158 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: you get it ants search the Grail movement. It's very interesting. Yeah, 159 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: and that's a that's a good illustration of how I 160 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: would say that, Um, the Grail Movement doesn't seem to 161 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: be as much of a cult, but I don't have 162 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: too much information about it. Yeah, sorry, Yeah, more of 163 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: a sect. And I think that's what you're saying, because 164 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: the ants in that currum Case episode are the cults 165 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: that broke off. And as as we know, and as 166 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: uh thank god you pointed out in the video, the 167 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: Grail movement is not related. Disowned disowned them completely. Uh 168 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: successfully sued uh some check newspaper right by the way 169 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: for implying that they were supporting it. Um, all right, 170 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: we also know that, uh, from everything you guys are 171 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: hearing us say, the exact definition or difference between the 172 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: cult and religion is a matter of great debate. You 173 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: will run into people who tell you that the Baptist 174 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: which is a cult. You will meet people who assure 175 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: you that Mormonism as a cult. You know what I mean? Um, 176 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: And all our scientology based listeners or scientology focused listeners 177 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: will want to hear us talk about the idea of 178 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: whether scientology is a religion, a cult, or none of 179 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: the above, which it has been all three depending on 180 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: who you ask. But we have a little quick guide 181 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: that we found from a cult hotline and clinic. That 182 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: will help us differentiate a little bit, right, Yeah, sure, 183 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: what why don't you tell us what what a cult is? 184 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: And then I will say what a what a religion it, 185 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: or can at least from this list. Okay, So like 186 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: what a cult would do versus what religion would do. Okay, Um, 187 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: let's start with your end. That's a great idea. You 188 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: start with the religion will provide the cult alternative. Okay. 189 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: When you're getting information from a religion, it's generally offered 190 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: up right up front. It's given to you as hey, 191 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: read about this, let us know if you're interested. And 192 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: when you're in a cult or cult like organization, there's 193 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: deceit in recruitment, so we're not giving you either all 194 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: of the information or the actual truth. In a religion, um, 195 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: generally freedom of thought is offered up and members have 196 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: a say in what goes on. A lot of times 197 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: not in occult we are totalitarian, my way or the 198 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: highway to hell. Generally, religions will promote a family, a 199 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: family unit of some sort. Um. Usually it will have 200 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: very rigid structures of what that family unit unit can 201 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: or cannot be, but they still promote a family unit, 202 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: destroy the family unit in your cult, the only unit 203 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: is the cult. I'm getting a little dramatic, so I 204 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: and feeling I've had a lot of coffee. Religions tend 205 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: to work within a society, so they'll go out and 206 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: do work inside a community. UM, do some volunteering or donation. Okay, cool, 207 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: So like you could have your own life in larger 208 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: society in a religion, not an occult isolate the members, 209 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: no outsiders. One of us. Religion is generally open to 210 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: the community. So it will it will bring, it will 211 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: take anyone who comes in who is interested. Um, and 212 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: it just has open arms, let's say, right, Which is why, 213 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: for instance, at least in the United States, you can generally, 214 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: as long as you are respectful of the of the traditions, 215 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: you can generally in attend any church, mosque, synagogue, Christian 216 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: reading room, or what have you. Um, a Hindu or 217 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: Buddhist temple, um, as long as you're not a jerk 218 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: about it. But not in cults. You've got to keep 219 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: those nonbelievers out until they've been carefully vetted, because they 220 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: might come up the works. They might come up the works. 221 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: A religion is interested in promoting potential Now what does 222 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: that mean, ben, If it's promoting potential, so it wants 223 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: you to grow individually, yes, and and because it wants 224 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: to see the entire religion grow, but it also wants 225 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: to see the community grow. Well, you know that's really 226 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: taking away from the development of the cult, which is 227 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: the primary focus of a cult. And that's why a 228 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: cult will limit the development of an individual, destroy the ego, 229 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: as they would say. So in a religion, while there 230 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:31,239 Speaker 1: are guidelines, members are not systematically controlled, they're not individually controlled. 231 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: M okay. So um. You know certain days might be meatless, 232 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: or certain holidays have requirements you need to participate in, 233 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: but you are allowed to have a mind of your own. Yes, 234 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: not a cult where mind control techniques are prevalent and 235 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: and practiced. Often in religion, it's generally promoted that you 236 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: should really think hard about your decision to take a 237 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: commitment in this religion, well, to be saved or blessed 238 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: in some way, or take a right of passage in 239 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: this religion. They really want you to contemplate it, think 240 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: about it, make sure it's the right decision for you. 241 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: Oh right? Like how um? Quite a few religions require 242 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: you to have a certain period of study before you can, 243 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, like if you convert to a religion, um. 244 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: Not in cults, man, that's a good news. Uh. Commitment 245 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: is encouraged during the recruitment process. So you want to 246 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: learn more, come on, just join, Just join and we'll 247 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: tell you. Just give us one more payment and then 248 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: you can learn a little bit more and you'll be committed. Okay, 249 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Now this one I might I'm have a little bit 250 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: of contention with. But on our list it says that 251 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: in a religion, people are free to speak out against 252 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: the tenets of a religion. Um. And I I mean 253 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: that's true to a point, to a point. But if 254 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: you're inside the religion, you may have some more problems 255 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: there which might lead to say a schism and offshoot 256 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: and perhaps a cult. Ah. Yes. And in a cult, 257 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: the any any criticism is often met with very serious threats. 258 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: So these could be legal action, these could be uh 259 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: you know, isolation even further from your new cult family. Uh, 260 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: physical punishments even Um, it can be very messy, very quickly. 261 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: I have another point of contention here in this list, 262 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: but that's okay. Yeah. In a religion, clergy are expected 263 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: generally to be responsible for their words and actions. That 264 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: sounds nice, that's like a theoretically yeah, it sounds very nice. 265 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: As we have seen with certain massive institutions that may 266 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: or may not be true. Right, And in a cult, 267 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: the leader and the followers consider the leader to be 268 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: above reproach, cannot be criticized. So what what are some 269 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: great examples of this? While we know that Manson or 270 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: Jim Jones would never have been criticized by a member 271 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: their cult, we know that UM for a time, Uh 272 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: Kim jong il was not um legally not be able 273 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: to be criticized. There's a there's a weird argument here, 274 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: which is different. I'm not saying that North Korea is 275 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: a cult country, UM, anymore than I'm saying that Thailand 276 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: is a cult country. But there's a there's a monarchical 277 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: fallacy here because in Middle Eastern countries and in Thailand, UM, 278 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: any sort of criticism of the royal family can can 279 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: get you in prison very quickly at the very least. UM. 280 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: So that's kind of cultish, which goes to another thing. 281 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: Questioning the leader or the basic outline of the cult 282 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: is never allowed. So if you you know, if you say, hey, guys, 283 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: even if it's something as small as Hey, guys, I 284 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: really like our eight hour brainwashing sessions. But I was 285 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: thinking maybe we could use a CD instead of a 286 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: VHS tape so we don't have to keep stopping to 287 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: rewind it. Um, then you would get in a lot 288 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: of trouble, it would seem so yeah. Uh. So, now 289 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: that we know some of the differences between a cult 290 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: and a religion, will talk a little bit about some 291 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: of the history, which I think is fascinating here. Um. 292 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: Something from the Baltimore Sun, uh that we mentioned a 293 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: little bit before is that, um, something can change from 294 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: a cult to a religion over time, right. Oh yeah, 295 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: and again it can splinter the opposite way as well. 296 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: So early Christianity, when it was first originating, it was 297 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: considered a cult because you had, you know, you had 298 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: certain groups of people, like you said, who are from uh, 299 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: who were Jewish or Roman at the time. Um, who 300 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: then started following this one guy in this one guy's message. 301 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: And you know, it's an interesting comparison. I'd like to 302 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: I haven't read much up on this, but I'd like 303 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: to see someone's argument for Jesus as a cult leader. 304 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: I'd be fascinated to read that just if you looked 305 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: and I don I'm not saying that he was, but 306 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: just it would be an interesting angle to look at it. 307 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Because they have a um uh theology that did a 308 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: couple of things. They said, this, uh, this current status 309 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: status quo is um not the way that humans are 310 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: supposed to be. So it's kind of heretical, and it 311 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: confuses some of the earlier religions, the Jewish religion and 312 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: the Roman religion at the time, where some of the 313 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: predominant belief structures, and while borrowing heavily from a lot 314 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: of those from Roman society, from Jewish tradition. Uh, Christianity 315 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: itself was something that was novel and and of course 316 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: Islam was also considered a cult by medieval Christians much later, 317 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: who would have never um called their religion occult. But 318 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: the new guy on the street was was the same thing. 319 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: And it's because some of the same stuff. You know, 320 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: Islam has Jesus as the most quoted prophet in the 321 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: Quran uh and the there there's so much commonality in 322 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: the Abramatic religions. But still they called it a cult. 323 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: So this leads, uh, this leads to an interesting idea. 324 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: What if the only real difference between a cult and 325 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: a religion is the length of time that a spiritual 326 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: organization is active. I think that's a great point. That's 327 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: an absolutely great point, because as soon as the new 328 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: guy comes along, that's weird and different, that's a cult. 329 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: And there's there's a great argument here that we broke 330 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: down from this article in the sun and uh there 331 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: there are a couple of reasons why this is a 332 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: is kind of a good metric or I don't know, 333 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: what do you think is a fair amount of time 334 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: to transition? Well, it needs to be one where a 335 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: child can grow up inside this belief structure. Okay, long 336 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: enough to be old enough as old at least as 337 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: the parent was to and reproduce it and then and 338 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 1: then continue right, so that so that person would have 339 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: to Yeah, they're reproduction would be necessary. You can't just 340 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: bring people in. It's like one so three generations total, maybe, yeah, 341 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: that would be about right. So of what's that a 342 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: hundred years are a little less, a little more, a 343 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: little more maybe? Yeah? Um, well, I guess depends on 344 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: when they have kids, right when they die? Um? Okay, 345 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: that all right? I think that's very smart. And it 346 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: has to function a couple of ways because already there 347 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: will be people asking us the writing emails, asking uh, well, 348 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: what about a cult that functions in secret for hundreds 349 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: of years. That's a little bit different. We're talking about 350 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: things that function in the open um. So one of 351 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: the most one of the biggest points is a group 352 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: that has survived over generations cannot have the sort of 353 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: self destructive or antisocial behavior that occurs in cults, at 354 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: least not openly. Right. You can't kill your breeding population. 355 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: You can't render them uh sterile one way or the other. Um. So, 356 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: also can't kill a lot of them as suicide, right, yeah, 357 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: no mass suicide. Also, it has to it has to 358 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: play nice with the current whomever the current government or 359 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: state is. So that means that you can't break laws 360 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: like abuse laws, um, which is one way that groups 361 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: are who later turned out to be cults are often 362 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: caught you know, um. And it could be some dark stuff. 363 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: It could be domestic abuse, it could be um fraud, 364 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, taking making your followers give up their financial 365 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: assets to you, or of course in some cases it 366 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: can be sexual abuse. It's a that's a great point 367 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: about functioning inside the society and not making the rulers 368 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: of the land you occupy angry at you so, And 369 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: I think that has a lot to do with morality 370 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: and why religion and religious beliefs. Uh, the morality of 371 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: a people is often ascribed to that. Ah, that's such 372 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: a good point. Yeah, it's such a good point because, um, 373 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: one thing that it seems religions tend to do is 374 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: over time have a morality which is is sort of 375 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: a mirror of the society in which they operate, or 376 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: is tolerated by that society. Sure so, um, you know, 377 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: so occult that argue something like people who are not 378 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: in our religion are not really human. Um, then that 379 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: is not gonna That morality is not going to jibe 380 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: when the authorities always be under suspicion. But if you have, um, 381 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: a moral argument which is something like, uh, people should 382 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: try to be good, which is when you boil it down, 383 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: that's that's one of the most basic tenants of any 384 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: sort of spiritual belief structure. And for thousands of years 385 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: people have just been fighting over the definitions of good 386 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: and people. And UM, it's sad to say, I hope 387 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: that uh, the the aliens land. They're not just disgusted 388 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,239 Speaker 1: with us on that point, but yeah, pretty sure they 389 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: will be. But but then another thing they can uh 390 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: to the point about kids. Uh, these cults are excuse me, 391 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: religions will also grow institutions, so they'll have um, nonprofit organizations, 392 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: they'll take care of the sick and the elderly and 393 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: the dispossessed. They'll have systems to educate others, to basically 394 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: bring people up in these beliefs. So that again, that's 395 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: the thing we're talking about earlier. You can't let it die, 396 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: so you have to make sure the young people get 397 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the message and then continue forward. And this sounds like 398 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: a recipe for something that's not just able to survive 399 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: in in a community where not everyone has that religion, 400 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: but it sounds like people of this religion or obeying 401 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: these kind of approaches could become really valuable to the 402 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: larger society. You know what, what are we talking We're 403 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: talking about stable, generation spanning, self sustaining organization that wants 404 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: to help people. Um. It sounds like a great thing. 405 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: Sounds like a great thing, and sometimes in history it 406 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: has been of course part of being one of the 407 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: guiding principles of human history means that there is a 408 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 1: lot of stuff on both the pro and the con side. 409 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: Millions of people have been saved by various religions, and 410 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: millions upon millions have been murdered, no other way around it. Um, 411 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: all right, but it's time now to talk about some cults. 412 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: We've talked about the difference we can cults from religions, 413 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: and now it's time to talking about cults. But before 414 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: we do, it's time for word from our sponsor. Right. 415 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I always forget that we have these great sponsors. 416 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for helping us make this show. Guys, Yeah, 417 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. 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That's right, buck thunder Tumbles Worldwide Robe 427 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: and Sigil Emporium, come on down to find the latest 428 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: innovations in mind cleansing crystals, in past life regression technology, 429 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: and mind control. Are your followers seeming a little bit 430 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: too ordery? Are those pesky egos resurfacing at the strangest times? Well, 431 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: then why not try the mind muzzle uh fresh here 432 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: at buck thunder Tumbles Emporium. Those blood rituals can get 433 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: really messy sometimes when it splashes off on your robe 434 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: and you get those small stains, your flock will notice. 435 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: We'll bring your soiled robes and talismans and sigils and 436 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: anything else that may have a little blood stain on it. 437 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: Come on down to buck thunder Tumbles Robe and Sigil 438 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: Emporium and we'll wash all of those blood stains out. 439 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: We'll also wash out any other nasty stains on your 440 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: brilliant robes of magnificence. We exect payment in cash cards, children, 441 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: religious icons, other robes, rival cult leaders, and of course 442 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: human and hair bluck. Flunder Tumbles, Rope and Sigil Imporium 443 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: is not legally responsible for any of the following Waco 444 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: style massacres, cult indoctrination, resurfacing of egos, rope, chafing, sandal, 445 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: chafing sigil, poison, blood, poison, roll I wiggle, arm, snake, candle, echialalia, 446 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: relation break dancing, spontaneous disco writes, a passage, te filing, 447 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: Double Winks, Triple Winks Go to Speak, Dark Miracles paid 448 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: for by Friends of Buck thunder Tumbles, Rope and Central 449 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: and Porium, a division of Illumination Global Limited. All right, 450 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: well that was um, that was interesting. Yeah, I can't 451 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: pick our sponsors. I guess. Oh yeah, we should also say, um, 452 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if they put it in the ad, 453 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: but I think we're If you mention us, you get 454 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: like an eight percent discount. Yeah. If it's a Tuesday, 455 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: it was something weird. They have a weird they have 456 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: a different calendar. Uh So, now it's time to talk 457 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: about some out and out cults, things that are universally 458 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: called cults by everybody except for the people in there. 459 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's get started. This is one that 460 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: we found that's m hmm, a little weird. Let's just 461 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: go into it. It's called the Creativity Movement, formerly the 462 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: World Church of the Creator. Now, this is a white 463 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: separatist organization and it advocates the whites only religion creativity. 464 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, the name of the this basist 465 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: religion is creativity. Yes, that is like the most uncreative name, 466 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: but it's but it's also so universal, although it's not 467 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: at all universal. It's whites only. Um, So it was. 468 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: It was also kind of a descriptive phrase that was 469 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: used by uh, this guy named Ben Clawson. I think 470 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: that's how you say it. It's like one of the leaders, 471 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: I guess, yes, and uh, it included all adherents of 472 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: the religion. And basically the use of the term creator 473 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: does not it doesn't refer to any kind of deity. 474 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: So there's no God. No, it's to you. It's to 475 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: the person, uh, the self and white people's um. But anyway, 476 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: despite the former use of the word of church and 477 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: its name, the movement is definitely atheistic. There's no belief 478 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: in god. Huh. Okay. Now this is the one that 479 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: started in three but the founder, Ben Klausen, died right 480 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: in yes, yeah, okay, so you only had twenty years 481 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: there to run the thing. And it's so it's so 482 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: strange to me. Then the you know, we're going to find, 483 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: of course that there that racism um is prevalent in 484 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: a lot of fringe cults. Um. You know, racist organization 485 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily consider itself also a spiritual organization. But a 486 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: lot of spiritual groups have no problem with racism and 487 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: in fact feel very justified about it. And you know, sadly, 488 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: although people might like to think this is a new, 489 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: newer kind of belief, that's more and more in the fringes, 490 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: It's been around since religions. Racism and religion have been 491 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: uh thick as thieves for a lot of human history. UM. 492 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: I want to talk about one that I really like, 493 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: the Prince Philip movement or a cargo cult. Now, this 494 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: is something that chuck from stuff. You should know and 495 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: I are both fascinated by. I don't want to see, 496 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: we're big fans of it. So this is an island 497 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: called Tana or Tanna and Vanuatu or Vanatu and this 498 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: and this uh vanuattu is, aside from being something that 499 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: will mispronounce regularly, uh, this is a small island nation 500 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: and during the sometime probably in the fifties or sixties, 501 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: having received air drops from planes that were flying over 502 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: the islanders who were rural began what was called a 503 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: cargo cult. So they believe, at least as one try 504 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: Bontana believes that Prince Philip is a divine creature. You 505 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: mean the Duke of Edinburgh, Yes, the Duke of Edinburgh. Uh, 506 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: and is the son of a son and brother. So 507 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: it's incestuous, which is okay if you're if you're a deity. 508 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: Um the son and brother of the legendary John from Now. 509 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: I think have we talked about cargo cults on the 510 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: show before. We've mentioned it a couple of times. We 511 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: did the Sentinel Island. That's right, Yeah, so you can 512 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: learn some amazing stuff about this. Uh. The the Royal 513 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: couple didn't help at all because in nineteen seventy four 514 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: they visited the island, which I just think is um 515 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: elitist and kind of not cool. I guess you could 516 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: say it's diplomacy, but I think it's tremendously condescending on 517 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: the part of the Duke of Edinburgh. But the but 518 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: I think maybe his intentions are good because he was 519 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: made when he found out about this religion. He's visited 520 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: and exchanged gifts with the leaders. Now, this cargo when 521 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,959 Speaker 1: it was originally dropped, not to go too far into 522 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: the story, was was amazing. And after learning of the uh, 523 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: learning more about John From and the West, the mystical 524 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: understanding these people have, which was often exploited or presented 525 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: with ridicule um resulted in them building like fake in 526 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,919 Speaker 1: a fake airport essentially fake airway, um and calling for 527 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: the return of John From for the cargo to bring 528 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: more of these amazing gifts, which if you think about 529 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: it had to be like space age may as well 530 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,479 Speaker 1: be magic. They hadn't seen him before, but uh, that 531 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: is that is a story for another day. He kind 532 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: of we get one more. Um. So there's something called 533 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: new Abbyonisum. And this is something that you pointed out 534 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: to me that I had never heard of. This is 535 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: an umbrella term that refers to these doctrines and teachings 536 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: of this guy named Dwight York and Uh. It originated 537 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: as as a black Muslim group and I think it's 538 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: in New York right in the nineties seventies. But eventually, 539 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: well I'm kind of skipping ahead of here, but eventually 540 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: I found out that they had a headquarters in Georgia. Yeah, 541 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: Putnam County, right, Yeah, really interesting where there was a 542 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: pyramid structure and it's really fascinating. You can you can 543 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: search for new abby and is that what? Just what 544 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: you would search for New Abbyanism and you can find 545 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 1: a picture. It's really interesting. Yeah. The uh. And it's 546 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: based on a bunch of different things that Dwight York 547 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: encountered in his time, like freemasonry, Shriner's UM, revisionist, Chris 548 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: Janity of course, Islam uh, A couple of other things 549 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: that would probably be called cults uh, some ancient astronaut 550 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories UM. And this pretty much was centered just 551 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: on Dwight York by far, this leader alpha male of 552 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: this group UM had some interesting beliefs, didn't they. Oh yeah, 553 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: we've got a We've got a list here. You wanna 554 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: let's go back and forth? Okay. Number one, it is 555 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: important to bury the after birth so that Satan does 556 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: not use it to make a duplicate of the recently 557 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: born child. Big problem in Putnam, I think, uh. Number two, 558 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: some aborted fetuses survived their abortions to live in the sewers, 559 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: where they would be gathered and organized to take over 560 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: the world. People were once perfectly symmetrical and embedextrous, but 561 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: then a meteorite struck Earth untilted this its axis, causing 562 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: handedness and shifting the heart off center in the chest. 563 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: Here's one of my favorites. Met Each of us has 564 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: seven clones living in different parts of the world. Well obviously, 565 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean I don't even know if you're Matt Prime 566 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: or Matt Yeah. Uh. Women have existed for many generations 567 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: before they invented men through genetic manipulation. Thanks, guys, I 568 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: mean women. Uh. And then there's the idea that Homo 569 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,439 Speaker 1: sapiens modern man as a result of cloning experiments done 570 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: on Mars using Homo erectus. That's crazy. You know what's crazier. 571 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: What's crazier? Nicola Tesla came from Venus? Uh? Is that crazy? 572 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 1: You know? For everybody listening, Matt, just that a mic drop. Um. 573 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: Another one is that the Illuminati of nurtured to child, 574 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: who was the son of Satan, born on the sixth 575 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: of June in ninety six at the Dakota House on 576 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: Second seventy two Street in New York, born to Jacqueline 577 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: Kennedy Onassis and the Rothchild Kennedy families. The Pope was there, 578 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: he performed necromantic ceremonies. Uh. Child was raised by Nixon, 579 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: lives in Europe. Now it's you've gotta you've gotta check 580 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: out d White or to see some of the um 581 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: some of the legal trouble the guy has been in 582 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: and he's got numerous sexual abuse charges amongst other charges 583 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: of fraud. There is an argument that people have had, 584 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: which is, you know, was he just accused of this 585 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: to prevent his movement from becoming self sustaining or a 586 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: threat to his status quo? Uh, well, here's here. What 587 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: if that last story is true and it just just 588 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: going from my invisibles mind U imagining some of the 589 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: more crazy things. But what if what if that story 590 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: right there is true and it's so ridiculous that no 591 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,959 Speaker 1: one would ever believe it, and that one guy knew 592 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: and he wanted to spread the word. I would be 593 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: surprised because there would be a lot more focused and 594 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 1: effective ways to spread the word about that. But you 595 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: know what, maybe we don't know. Maybe the Antichrist really 596 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: is alive right now, hooked to a compu huter called 597 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: the Beast three M. I would be terrible and wonderful 598 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: just knowing that it was true. Yeah. Um, but here 599 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: here's our question. Now. Of course, since uh York's incarceration, 600 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: quite a few of his followers fell by the wayside. 601 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: He still does have a few, and these followers, um 602 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: maintain some of his writings and some of his recordings. Um. 603 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: And of course, with the stuff we're saying, you know, 604 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: when we just read that list, we're treating it in 605 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: a lighthearted manner. But let's keep in mind that a 606 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: lot of established quote unquote established religions which have been 607 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: around for more than a century have beliefs that might 608 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: sound equally strange when you just list them the way 609 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: that we did. Yeah, I'm sorry, I must apologize for 610 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: the way I did that list. But whatever, I don't 611 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: even know if this is you or if this is 612 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: one of your seven clones tursh sorry church Tertiary, well, Tertiary, 613 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: if I can just call you three. Um, we've we've 614 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: reached the point where usually in our podcast we talk 615 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: about where to go to learn more. UM. I have 616 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: a little bit of a of a of a twist 617 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: on this. If you're into it, Yeah, I'm totally into it. 618 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how to get somebody help if they're 619 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: in a cult, because we know that this this can 620 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: be a heartbreaking thing, you know, especially so a lot 621 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: of people find themselves in a situation where maybe their 622 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: child is just old enough to be uh their own 623 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: legal guardian, but young enough or isolated enough that they 624 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: fall into a clearly unsafe situation like a cult um. 625 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: So we found a couple of things from some cult 626 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: helplines that we can advise you with. One of the 627 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: first things that if you're talking to a loved member 628 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: who is in a cult, be careful not to straight 629 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: up criticize the group or the member, because remember that 630 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: if it's a cult, they're going to try to tear 631 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: down this person's ego, which means that they have no privacy. 632 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: They will have to say what you said about the 633 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: cult or the leader, and then this will likely be used. 634 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: If the leader knows anything that's going on, this will 635 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: likely be used as a reason to cut you off 636 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: from their life, which makes it much harder. And you 637 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that this group is purposefully 638 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: trying to isolate this person, your loved one, so you 639 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: have to remember to initiate communication as much as you 640 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,479 Speaker 1: possibly can. With them. But you have to be really, 641 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: really careful not to be judgmental when you're talking to 642 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,439 Speaker 1: this person Socratic method. Yes, you can't, because that will 643 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 1: send them directly in the opposite direction. Oh, another one 644 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: that's pretty important here. Uh, just some housekeeping which applies 645 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,280 Speaker 1: to any organization in my opinion, don't give original documents 646 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: to anyone. No original birth certificates, no original copies of 647 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: wills or anything like that. And please God, no titles, 648 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: no deeds to any physical possession. It will not be 649 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,280 Speaker 1: yours for long. Do not, under any circumstances, allow yourself 650 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: to be persuaded by quote professionals to spend lots of 651 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: money on some kind of treatment or some kind of 652 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: legal action until you verify the credentials of that person, 653 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: not only but also the qualifications that they have for 654 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: handling this problem. Right. Yeah, because it's there's there's something 655 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: where it verges into con territory, where someone says, well, 656 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: you have this problem that I can solve for you 657 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: because of my v asked knowledge, just like that doctor 658 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: who may or may not have existed in the Kuram case. Um. Next, 659 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: don't feel guilty, don't feel alone these this kind of 660 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,280 Speaker 1: stuff is distressingly common, and it can it can happen 661 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: to anybody's family. It doesn't mean that your family is 662 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: bad if one of your family members is suckered in 663 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: by occult Yeah, it's it's. It is very important to 664 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: remember that there are probably a lot of other people 665 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: going through very similar situation, and there are people you 666 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: can talk to. There's UM, you know, there is a 667 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: cult hotline and a cult help clinic. There's all kinds 668 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: of family support groups that meet monthly usually or sometimes 669 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: even more frequently. Yeah, and you can find you can 670 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: find some help, likely in an area relatively near to you. 671 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: The Internet is your friend in this regard, especially if 672 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: you're in like an isolated community, which some people might be. UM, 673 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: get online, call a helpline. If if there's a situation 674 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: where you feel trapped and you think that you are 675 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: in a cult, UM, then you can call you. You 676 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: legally can call nine one one and say that you 677 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: are being held against your will. UM. It is a 678 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: crime to hold somebody against their will without you know, 679 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 1: legal steps taken to do so so, unless they have 680 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: power of attorney a over you you know, UM, which 681 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: again you should never agree to. UH. Then you your 682 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: best bet, although it can be very difficult, is to 683 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: go outside of this group. The if if there's somebody 684 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: who's exploiting you an occult um or exploiting one of 685 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: your loved ones, then they're not going to give up, 686 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: which means that you should research the group, figure out 687 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: everything about what happens so you can know what's going 688 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: on with this person in your life. And then we 689 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,879 Speaker 1: go to the most important thing to remember, right, Matt, 690 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,919 Speaker 1: do not give up. Remember that this person, your loved one, 691 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 1: is probably a product of either your upbringing or your friendship. Um, 692 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: and it's really hard to break those bonds. Even if 693 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: if the group has attempted to break those bonds, um, 694 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: there is something there that remains, and you have you 695 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: have some sway over this person that you love, who 696 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,799 Speaker 1: probably loves you back. So yeah, just you know, if 697 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: you really believe that it's a scary, dangerous situation, do 698 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: not give up. And let me add something else here, Matt, 699 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: that I think you and I have neglected to mention earlier. 700 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: It's very important just because let's say you have a 701 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: child or a friend or a sibling or a parent 702 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: or whatever who believes in something that you don't agree with. 703 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: Just because they believe in that does not necessarily mean 704 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: they're in a cult. So you have to be very 705 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:33,720 Speaker 1: very careful, um too, look at the organization as well 706 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: before you decide that something's a cult, because I think 707 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: it's it's deceptively easy. It's a bit of a slippery 708 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: slope to start with. Well, I don't like it, so 709 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: let me find things to dislike, you know, just like 710 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: the old Louis c k bit where he says, you know, 711 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: if you don't like something, if you don't like a person, 712 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: and everything they do makes them seem like a jerk, 713 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,240 Speaker 1: you know, they look at that tool eating ice cream. 714 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: Luis came in Insights on the Planet right now. Yeah, 715 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: he'd probably be a pretty good cult D programmer, which 716 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,879 Speaker 1: we didn't even talk about because sometimes it turns out 717 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: that's a scam. Yeah, but I think, Matt, now is 718 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,439 Speaker 1: the time for us to finally do some listener mail, 719 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: right Oh yes, and we've got a great one. This 720 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: comes from Kellison D and just I wanna say here. 721 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: Kellison says that we can talk about or quote any 722 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: part of this email in the email. So cool, Kellson, 723 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: thanks for writing in Kelson says, I didn't check the 724 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: date on the video, so I don't know if I'm 725 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,840 Speaker 1: too late. But at the end of your cult video, 726 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: which I loved, you asked about what underground basis you 727 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: should cover in future videos. I was raised Mormon, and 728 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 1: that's why I loved the cult video so much. Interesting 729 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: the Mormons have not secretly by any means, and underground 730 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: vault that supposedly holds the largest genealogy library in the world. 731 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,280 Speaker 1: I've never been to it, but I'm told that tours 732 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: are offered maybe they still are, and that it's bomb 733 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: proof and they have to take you in a golf 734 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: cart a mile deep into the earth. Granted more specifically, 735 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: and the Mormon's material of choice for though the granted 736 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: is the Mormon's material of choice for all edifices. I 737 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: don't know if there's anything fishy here, but it's certainly weird. 738 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: What do you think, then? Uh? You know it is 739 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:26,400 Speaker 1: true that the Church Lauday Saints is a world leader 740 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: in genealogy UM and recordings. As far as the specific 741 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: information about the underground facility, I know it's there. I 742 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: wishing you more. I would love to check it out. 743 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: UM and it's very interesting to read this email. What 744 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 1: I think we should do is start looking into this, 745 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: uh in some more detail. I mean, it's it's fascinating. 746 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: I think it's a great idea. Actually, if I had 747 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,320 Speaker 1: the funds to put anything deep underground in grant it, 748 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: if that I thought were special, I man, I'd do that. Yeah, 749 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: you put genealogy records, I'd put everything down there. You 750 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,959 Speaker 1: would be like an underground bunker hoarder. Oh yeah, dude, 751 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 1: anything I thought it was important for humanity that wasn't 752 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,720 Speaker 1: perishable going in my grant bunker. Alright, well we'll build 753 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: it one brick at a time. Man. One more thing. 754 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: Just want to say thanks again to Kelson for writing 755 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,879 Speaker 1: in and letting us read your email. Yeah, man, thank 756 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: you so much. And if for everybody else who's wondering, hey, 757 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,240 Speaker 1: how can I get a shout out on the podcast? 758 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: Which did Kelson asked for that? Kelson didn't ask for 759 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,799 Speaker 1: a shout out, but guess what got one? You got one? Oh, 760 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, Kellison. I'm really sorry. I don't know. Uh, 761 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 1: Kellison will write in to correct us. But that was 762 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,359 Speaker 1: a fantastic piece of listener mail. We do appreciate your 763 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: time writing in. You can also talk to us. We're 764 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: lousy all over the internet. You can find us on Facebook, 765 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter. We're conspiracy stuff at 766 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: both of those and that's the end of this classic episode. 767 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 768 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 769 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 770 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 771 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 772 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 773 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,280 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 774 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know is a production of 775 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,240 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 776 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 777 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.