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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Mississippi and Wisconsin. Those

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Speaker 1: aren't two states that you normally hear mentioned together. Don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of men common other than the fact

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Speaker 1: that I guess they both have a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: up there and down there that are rural types. They

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Speaker 1: live in isolated locations, beautiful countryside in both states. I

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Speaker 1: had an interesting encounter one time with a fellow who

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Speaker 1: was from Mississippi, but yet he was the corner in

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Speaker 1: Green Bay, Wisconsin, and I was fascinated by that. I

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Speaker 1: was fascinated about his assessment about moving from a Gulf

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Speaker 1: state like Mississippi, deep South up to the frozen north.

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Speaker 1: He loved the people, he loved the slow pace of life.

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Speaker 1: He loved the way people really embraced the environment. In

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Speaker 1: Green Bay, he said in a roundabout way, it kind

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Speaker 1: of reminded him of home. Today, we're actually going to

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Speaker 1: discuss a homicide, arguably one of the most gruesome homicides

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Speaker 1: that I've covered on Bodybags, that took place in Green Bay,

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Speaker 1: the homicide of Shad Fiery at the hands of Taylor

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Speaker 1: Ship Business. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body

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Speaker 1: Bags Dave mac For me, when I heard about this case,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really hear much about the victim, But boy

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Speaker 1: have they gone on and on about the alleged perpetrator

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Speaker 1: in this case taylorship business. Isn't that interesting how it

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Speaker 1: always seems in the media that the victims many times

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Speaker 1: get pushed to the back, and those that perpetrate and

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Speaker 1: that are alleged to have perpetrated such evil kind of

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Speaker 1: step out of the shadows and we learn everything there

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Speaker 1: is to learn about them.

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Speaker 2: And that is one of those things that really does

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Speaker 2: upset family members to see the person who did this

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Speaker 2: horrible thing to your loved one getting attention, and by

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Speaker 2: the way, oftentimes when getting that attention, there's people that

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Speaker 2: try to justify what they did. There's oftentimes victim blaming

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Speaker 2: in there, and it gets crazy. It is the way

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Speaker 2: that things are reported. Oftentimes the suspect is evil, and

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Speaker 2: we don't run into evil every day in our lives.

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Speaker 2: And when you see it in front of you and

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Speaker 2: you see what they've done, it just it's not prairie

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Speaker 2: in interest. It's just interest in general draws us to it.

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Speaker 1: I think based upon what you and I do for

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Speaker 1: a living, where we cover cases. Aren't you glad that

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Speaker 1: we're still at that point where we can sense evil,

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Speaker 1: because there's a time when I think you can get

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Speaker 1: a callous to it. I did working with the medical examiner.

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Speaker 1: The horror and the gruesomeness, if you will, of cases

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Speaker 1: just kind of becomes your norm after a while. But

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Speaker 1: when you begin to think about what happened to the

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Speaker 1: shung man at the hands of Taylorship business, you really

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Speaker 1: begin to plumb the depths I think here of depravity

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Speaker 1: in the world in which we find ourselves now, the

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Speaker 1: space that we occupy. Let's hear from Jackie Howard, senior

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Speaker 1: producer with Crimeline.

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Speaker 3: Shad Thurian's death was discovered when his mother found theian

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Speaker 3: severed head in a bucket in the basement of her home.

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Speaker 3: The mom had been asleep but had been awakened between

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Speaker 3: two and three am by a slamming door. The woman

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Speaker 3: notices the light has been left on downstairs and goes

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Speaker 3: to check it out. There's dried blood on a nearby

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Speaker 3: mattress and the bucket, which contained a male organ as

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Speaker 3: well as the head. Police found the upper torso of

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Speaker 3: a body in a separate storage tote early on, the

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Speaker 3: investigation led police to another location and a twenty four

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Speaker 3: year old Taylor Shab Business. Shab Business tells officers that

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Speaker 3: she and Farian had been spending the day together.

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Speaker 2: Taylor'ship business and the victim here shad they were in

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Speaker 2: a relationship. They had been involved, not sure how long,

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Speaker 2: but they were actually involved in a dating relationship. Their

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Speaker 2: relationship involved sex and drugs. When police asked Taylor's Shaw Business,

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Speaker 2: what happened?

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Speaker 1: What did you do? You know what?

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Speaker 2: She said, that's a good question when you answer the

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Speaker 2: police when they ask you. You know you're alive, you

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Speaker 2: got blood on you, and you've got a dead guy,

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Speaker 2: and they ask you what happened? Saying that's a good question,

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Speaker 2: probably not opening yourself up to a good defense when

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Speaker 2: you get down to the nitty gritty. Here, Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: we have a young couple using meth, meth and FTIM.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how meth affects the body, but I

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Speaker 2: know that in our world today it is used by

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Speaker 2: many people and crazy things happen. Can methamphetamine cause somebody

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Speaker 2: could disconnect from reality to do something this crazy?

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Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, yeah, it can. Amphetamine. It's got a long

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Speaker 1: history of Obviously, it's a stimulant, okay, I mean a

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Speaker 1: high octane stimulant to the point where it can create

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Speaker 1: what's referred to as a drug induced psychoses, And right

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Speaker 1: to our Dave, I think that probably in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: they're going to they're going to track that way. You

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Speaker 1: know who infamously used amphetamine to fuel a group of people,

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Speaker 1: a group of followers Hitler Hitler, Yeah, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: When he was trying to fuel his army, they would

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Speaker 1: administer issue drugs to keep troops stimulated. And with amphetamine,

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Speaker 1: it's one of these things. It's not a normal stimulant.

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Speaker 1: It's one of these things that it has almost an

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Speaker 1: unpredictable kind of outcome many times per the administration of it,

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Speaker 1: dosage of it, this sort of thing. And then it

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Speaker 1: can come down to personality type and depended upon an

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Speaker 1: individual's predisposition. I think personality wise, it can be very

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Speaker 1: very magnified. If you've got any really dark areas within you,

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Speaker 1: you introduce amphetamine, particularly methamphetamine, you don't know what the

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Speaker 1: origin of the stuff is because it's manufactured somewhere in

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Speaker 1: a clandestine lab. You don't know what you're going to

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Speaker 1: get and in this case, all hell broke clues.

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Speaker 2: During World War Two, the Nazis used a form of

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Speaker 2: work called blitzkrig. Blitzgreg was an assault on your opponent,

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Speaker 2: the where they would bomb, shell attack for an extended

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Speaker 2: period of time, NonStop. It caused many Allied forces to

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Speaker 2: really lose their cookies. Just imagine, imagine three four days

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Speaker 2: of constant bombing. It would be difficult for anybody, much

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Speaker 2: less somebody who's already been in combat for a while.

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Speaker 2: That's what the Nazis did, and they used metham fetamine

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Speaker 2: to keep their army alive. And moving forward, all that

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Speaker 2: time comes to today we're dealing with people using meth recreationally.

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Speaker 2: This was a couple that did use meth and sex.

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Speaker 2: That was their thing. And on this particular night, as

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Speaker 2: the evening went on, they the couple of Taylor's shop

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Speaker 2: business and Shaddyron they were using meth at Taylor's house.

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Speaker 2: Some point in the evening they decided to go back

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Speaker 2: to where Shad lived was with his mother. So now

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Speaker 2: they're in the basement at shaddyrone's mother's house. And that

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Speaker 2: is the scene that you find yourself in this basement

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night using meth. According to

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Speaker 2: the only survivor, Taylor show Business pulls out the chains

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Speaker 2: and puts them on her would be victim and they

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Speaker 2: got busy sex now. According to shab Business, choking and

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Speaker 2: chains had been a part of their meth field sex life,

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Speaker 2: but this time she didn't stop. She described the chain

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Speaker 2: to police as the chains like a dog's choke collar.

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Speaker 2: He laid face down on the bed and according to

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Speaker 2: shab Business, she went crazy began to choke him with

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Speaker 2: the chain, but she didn't stop. He's coughing up blood,

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Speaker 2: his face turns purple. She didn't stop. She kept going

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Speaker 2: until she strangled the life out of him. He's dead,

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Speaker 2: laying on the bed. It's the middle of the night

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Speaker 2: there at his mother's house. That's the setup for what

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Speaker 2: takes place and the reason we're discussing this today on

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Speaker 2: body bags in particular, you need multiple body bags for

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Speaker 2: what took place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. And it's striking and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of this has to do with this kind of

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Speaker 1: drug fueled event that was going on, where people that

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Speaker 1: get involved in any kind of sexual activity, they understand,

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Speaker 1: you know where boundaries are when you introduce a substance

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Speaker 1: like methamphetamine, which by the way, was not the only

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Speaker 1: drug that was being used here. When you introduce a

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Speaker 1: drug like methamphetamine, the guardrails come off. At that point

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Speaker 1: in time, your ability to judge what is right and

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Speaker 1: what is wrong, what is tolerable, what is intolerable, what

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Speaker 1: is compatible and what is not compatible with life In

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Speaker 1: this particular case, that's gone. It vanishes instant and so

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Speaker 1: this kind of animalistic state kind of takes over. In

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Speaker 1: the midst of all of this. You've got an individual

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Speaker 1: that's already in a submissive role because he's restrained. At

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Speaker 1: this particular time. She is the one that is in

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Speaker 1: total and complete control, and she has even admitted that

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Speaker 1: she did, in fact administer the drug. So that's another

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Speaker 1: kind of mechanism of control. When it comes to this

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Speaker 1: young man, you think about what was going on with

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Speaker 1: him during these moments leading up to this, and was

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Speaker 1: he taken unawares even in a drug fuel state where okay,

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Speaker 1: we've done this before, everything's going to be okay. It

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Speaker 1: ended in us being stated in some kind of way

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Speaker 1: where you know, we're satisfying all of these urges that

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Speaker 1: we have, regardless of what anybody thinks about it. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of the way that get their groove on, if

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Speaker 1: you will. But now suddenly maybe he comes to an

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Speaker 1: awareness that things aren't going quite to plan quite as

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Speaker 1: they have in the past, because, as you mentioned, Dave,

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Speaker 1: she's choking him out with a chains and she admits

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Speaker 1: that he had blood issuing from his airway. Again, this

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Speaker 1: is probably an indication that he's in congestive failure. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about this before. This can be brought about as

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Speaker 1: a result of this can be drug induced, but it's

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Speaker 1: also happens in an oxygen deprivating event in a context.

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Speaker 1: And here's something else I'm gonna throw a term out

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Speaker 1: on you here, Dave, that I don't think you've ever

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Speaker 1: heard before. Maybe you have their alleged ligature, I guess,

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Speaker 1: for a lack of better term strangulation going on here.

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Speaker 1: Because you are using a chain, even though it's not

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Speaker 1: a belt or rope, you're using that to compromise the airway.

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Speaker 1: There's something else that's going on. It's something called burking.

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Speaker 1: B you are ki n g And for folks that

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Speaker 1: aren't familiar with burking, it is a compression asphyxia and

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Speaker 1: it's when you actually have an individual that sits either

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Speaker 1: on the back or the chest of a subject and

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Speaker 1: will not allow them to breathe. And as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: if you have an individual that is in a physiologically

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Speaker 1: compromised state that happens with this drug usage. He's lying

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Speaker 1: perhaps in a prone position, which means space down on

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Speaker 1: his belly, he's got a chain around his neck, he's restrained,

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Speaker 1: and that's not enough for her. She has to then,

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Speaker 1: even though she's recognized that he's bleeding from his nose

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Speaker 1: in his mouth, she has to then sit on him,

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Speaker 1: sit on his back, and just imagine this. Your chest

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Speaker 1: can't rise and fall, you can't uptake oxygen, you can't

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Speaker 1: get rid of carbon dioxide, and then finally life just

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Speaker 1: slips away.

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Speaker 4: And you're dead.

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Speaker 1: So, potentially after you've ingested methamphetamine or taking it up

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Speaker 1: intraveniously or smoked it or whatever methodology you're going to use,

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Speaker 1: after that has taken place, and you've hit this really

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Speaker 1: horrific high and you see before you what you may

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Speaker 1: have done to someone that you are in a relationship with,

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Speaker 1: it's not enough at that point to say, wow, I

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Speaker 1: can't believe I just ended somebody's life. No no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not what has allegedly happened, because it's at this

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Speaker 1: point in time that you decide, let's see how much

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Speaker 1: further I can push the boundaries? How much further can

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Speaker 1: I go? Is there some other crack or crevice I

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Speaker 1: can leach down into when it comes to depravity? And

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Speaker 1: this is where the story really takes a very bizarre turn.

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Speaker 2: She has choked the life out of her boyfriend, high

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Speaker 2: on meth. They're in the basement of his mother's house.

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Speaker 2: And what comes next is there a realization, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 2: what have I done? Our sex game just went too

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Speaker 2: far and I need to call for help and try

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Speaker 2: to No no, no, ms Shaw business decides to play

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Speaker 2: with him for a couple hours. That's what it said.

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Speaker 2: I'm not making up a term here. She actually told

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Speaker 2: police that after he was dead, after she has choked

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Speaker 2: the left.

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Speaker 1: Dave, I got to interrupt you here, man, I got

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Speaker 1: to say you say in that relative to she decides

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Speaker 1: to play with him. If you hadn't qualified that by

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Speaker 1: saying that's what she said, I would say, have you

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Speaker 1: lost all good taste at this point in time? But

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Speaker 1: I have to validate this just so that folks understand

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Speaker 1: that's the track that she's chosen to go down in this.

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Speaker 1: We've gone from homicide here to necrophilia. That's we're in

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Speaker 1: the basement at this point in tom literally and figuratively.

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Speaker 2: And that's what she said to the police that she

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Speaker 2: quote played with the victim's body for like two or

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Speaker 2: three hours. Now, that's where the sexual assault charge came from.

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Speaker 2: Don't really know how long because in her you got

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Speaker 2: to remember, we're talking to somebody who had a meth

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Speaker 2: field event taking place. Time has little to no meaning.

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Speaker 2: But the bottom line is after she gets done playing

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Speaker 2: with him for a couple hours, that's when she decides

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Speaker 2: her next move and she business decides. After her she's

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Speaker 2: played with her her boyfriend for a couple hours, he's

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Speaker 2: dead and I'm wondering what kind of state his body

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Speaker 2: would be in at this point. Is he going to

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Speaker 2: be stiff from ryger mortis? What happens? What is his

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Speaker 2: body like?

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you set forth those parameters toime wise, because

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Speaker 1: it's important to understand. You said that the sexual assault

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Speaker 1: charge that they're looking at here is think to a

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Speaker 1: certain degree, is in the post mortem state, and that's

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Speaker 1: going to come up as a question of law down

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Speaker 1: the road. Very interesting territory we find ourselves in here.

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Speaker 1: But to your point, from the scientific standpoint, his body,

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Speaker 1: his body would still be flaccid. His body would actually

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Speaker 1: be still manipulative. And I don't mean that in a

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Speaker 1: traditional sense of being manipulative. I'm saying you could still

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Speaker 1: manipulate his body to move it around. So you know

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Speaker 1: you're talking too three four hours down range. You wouldn't

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Speaker 1: really sense much stiffness coming about from a post mortem sense.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because we've had killers over the years

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Speaker 1: that like to do death play. They're actually a subset

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Speaker 1: of people that have aphelia that is associated with dead

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Speaker 1: play is what they refer to it as, and they'll

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Speaker 1: have living victims that will behave as though they are dead.

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Speaker 1: They'll even go to great links to make their bodies

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Speaker 1: cold for their partners, and they will be non reactive

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Speaker 1: to any kind of stimulus in order to play this

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Speaker 1: scenario out in their mind. That kind of skirts the

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Speaker 1: edges of necrophilia. But here in shab Business' this case,

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Speaker 1: and when you're talking about the young man's remains, she's

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Speaker 1: crossed the rubicon at this point, she's into necrophilia. At

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Speaker 1: this point in time, she's using his body for her

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Speaker 1: own purposes sexually. She sexualized his corpse. And so that's

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Speaker 1: an interesting and interesting bit of information when you begin

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Speaker 1: to think about what she's doing with this body. And

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Speaker 1: there have been killers over the years that have involved

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Speaker 1: themselves in and I think most notably another Wisconsinate that

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Speaker 1: comes to mind is Dahmer. You know, Dahmer wouldn't manipulate

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Speaker 1: bodies to a great degree, you know, and he talked

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Speaker 1: about creating zombies over the years that he could manipulate bodies.

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Speaker 1: So they are these little hints with certain perpetrators where

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Speaker 1: you believe that there's a hint of necrophilic behavior that's

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Speaker 1: going on with these individuals, where they and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is. I think that it's the idea

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Speaker 1: that they have total control over somebody.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine that a butcher would cut up a

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Speaker 2: body differently than a lay person being away from She's

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Speaker 2: not a surgeon here Shaw business is not a doctor.

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Speaker 2: She's not a surgeon. So as just a lay person.

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Speaker 2: You've probably seen this before. Where do they start hacking

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Speaker 2: away just the average Joe Schmoe. That's trying to dismantle

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Speaker 2: a body.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it would stand a reason, doesn't it, Dave,

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Speaker 1: You would go to the most vulnerable areas of the body.

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Speaker 1: All right, And let me give you an example. As

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Speaker 1: we get older, where do we experience most of our pain? Like,

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Speaker 1: it's generally in our joint My knees crack all the time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about yours, but elbow, shoulders, those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things, those are generally the most vulnerable areas. And

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Speaker 1: when it comes to dismembering a body, and dismemberment can

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Speaker 1: be used as a term, you know, when you begin

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Speaker 1: to you know, think about what a butcher does. You're

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Speaker 1: going to go into the most vulnerable areas. So you

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Speaker 1: would start off in the joints. And fortunately, we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of these cases where people will dismember remains,

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Speaker 1: just start off like mid thigh, and they'll use the

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Speaker 1: most horrific tools in order to do this. They'll use

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Speaker 1: a say, for instance, as all to go through soft tissue,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't work out real well. But in her case,

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Speaker 1: and this is quite horrific, not that this whole case

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Speaker 1: isn't horrific. In and of itself. They actually found a

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Speaker 1: serrated bread knife at the scene, which appears is the

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Speaker 1: instrument of choice for her where she's beginning to take

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Speaker 1: this young man's body apart, and of course she did.

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Speaker 1: There were various elements of his body that were found

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Speaker 1: in a variety of different locations.

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Speaker 2: When I think of a bread knife, I'm thinking of

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Speaker 2: how I would use that to cut something like fleshy.

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing is that because of the serrated edge that

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Speaker 2: it was able to get the flesh. I mean to

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Speaker 2: cut through that because obviously you're not going to cut

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Speaker 2: through a bone with that knife, right.

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Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't think that you would, and you could

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Speaker 1: do it, but you would have to be and let

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Speaker 1: me really emphasize that, you would really have to be

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Speaker 1: greatly purposed in order to use that. Now, there is

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Speaker 1: indication that she had used a number of knives, but

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Speaker 1: she had allegedly stated to the police that she chose

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Speaker 1: the bread knife because it worked the best because of

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Speaker 1: the serrated blade. So when you have a smooth edge,

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Speaker 1: that's not going to facilitate cutting through bone very well.

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Speaker 1: But if you have that serrated blade, you can actually

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Speaker 1: utilize that to saw with. Now, it would be a

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Speaker 1: real labor but still it could be used as a saw.

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Speaker 2: You know, we already have sha business, you know, chaining

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Speaker 2: holding her boyfriend down in his sexcapade within, you know,

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Speaker 2: using chains to strangle him. Now he's dead and she's

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Speaker 2: played with him for a couple hours. She has begun

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Speaker 2: the dismemberment process. And his mother's basement. They're back at

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Speaker 2: you know, they're in the basement and because of shaw

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Speaker 2: business needing to go in and out for some reason,

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Speaker 2: a door gets slammed and the mom wakes up. It's

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Speaker 2: like two thirty three o'clock in the morning, according to

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Speaker 2: her dament, she is woken up by this door slanting.

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Speaker 2: When she gets up, she sees a light in the basement,

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Speaker 2: and when she heads down to the basement this is

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Speaker 2: her house, after all, it's the middle of the night.

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Speaker 2: She discovers a bucket, and inside that bucket her son's head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not just his head, Dave, but as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: it was also his penis that was contained. And some

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Speaker 1: people have said that it is either a bucket or

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Speaker 1: crock pot, which has even got if this can be

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Speaker 1: even more ominous, I don't know that it could be

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Speaker 1: but just let's back up here, just for a second.

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Speaker 1: I don't care what the kid is involved in at all.

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Speaker 1: This is your precious son who you gave birth to.

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Speaker 1: And then your face suddenly with this harsh reality that

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Speaker 1: I don't know that too many other people in the

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Speaker 1: world could possibly ever fathom or identify with. You take

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Speaker 1: a look and you're not really sure what you're seeing,

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Speaker 1: but there's something that draws your eyes back. You look

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Speaker 1: again and you know that you're seeing ahead. But then

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Speaker 1: another glance and you notice that it's not just ahead,

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Speaker 1: but it's the head of your son. So, according to police,

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Speaker 1: what we're dealing with in this particular case, from an

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Speaker 1: evidentiary standpoint, is that we know that there is illicit

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Speaker 1: drug involvement where we have methamphetamine that is being utilized,

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Speaker 1: and also apparently there were sedatives that were involved too.

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Speaker 1: You can only imagine that those had to be utilized

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Speaker 1: on a regular basis in order to bring one down

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Speaker 1: from this hide that you have as a result of

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Speaker 1: being exposed to stimulant like math, but also an ongoing

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Speaker 1: history of the sexual pursuits on Shaw Business's part. She

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Speaker 1: alleges that she had been involved in chain play with

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Speaker 1: the victim over a period of time that was kind

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Speaker 1: of an adjunct to the drug usage. But when we

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Speaker 1: get down to it, what we do have are some

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Speaker 1: horrific elements that come into play when we begin to

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Speaker 1: think about the victim's head as well as his sexual

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Speaker 1: organ being found in a bucket together. And imagine the

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Speaker 1: police when they went out to vehicle and they were

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Speaker 1: actually able to notice that there was a leg and

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Speaker 1: a foot in a van, and according to police, the

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Speaker 1: alleged perpetrator here said that she got lazy and only

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Speaker 1: up putting the leg in the foot in her van

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Speaker 1: and forgot the head, put the upper torso in a

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Speaker 1: storage tote. And then of course the scene is just

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Speaker 1: covered in blood, and of course you have the bloody instruments.

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Speaker 1: But probably to sum all of this up, as she's

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Speaker 1: being taken away by the police, the police allege that

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Speaker 1: she stated, and again I'm paraphrasing here, good luck finding

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Speaker 1: all of his organs. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this

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Speaker 1: is bodybags