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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production at iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: You actually were the guy who inspired us to do

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Speaker 2: animated logos. Do you remember this? I said, well, what

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Speaker 2: are we going to do in between the videos and

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Speaker 2: the VJs? Are we going to do jingles? And he went, oh, no,

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Speaker 2: we can't do jingles? And I said, what do we do?

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Speaker 2: He said, how about this? Imagine it's a picture of

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Speaker 2: a cow. I said, yeah, he said, and all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, an X comes down and cuts the cow's

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Speaker 2: head off and it falls to the ground and you

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Speaker 2: see the veins coming out and the blood spurting out,

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Speaker 2: and the cow vomits, and in the vomit is the logo.

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Speaker 2: I went, Oh, my god, I can do anything I want.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 4: I'm Bob Tipman, and welcome to Math and Magic. Stories

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Speaker 4: from the Frontiers of Marketing, and we're doing something.

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Speaker 5: Special on today's episode.

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Speaker 4: One of the pivotal moments of my life was leading

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Speaker 4: the team that created MTV. I've had the good of

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Speaker 4: having all the co founders of MTV on this podcast

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Speaker 4: with me and in each of the interviews, whether it

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Speaker 4: was chatting with Judye Brat or Fred Seiber, John Sykes

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Speaker 4: or Yarrol Moon, and of course Tom Freston. We've always

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Speaker 4: spent a little time talking about MTV, so all we

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Speaker 4: wanted to do for you today was pulled together those

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Speaker 4: stories for the first time ever. Tell the story of

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Speaker 4: the beginning of MTV through the eyes of people who

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Speaker 4: were actually in the room when it happened, because all

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Speaker 4: of us who are really in the room often laugh

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Speaker 4: about how far off other people's accounts can be.

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Speaker 5: So let me set the stage.

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Speaker 4: It's the beginning of the eighties. Cable TV was still

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Speaker 4: a crazy idea. Most business executives and most of America

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Speaker 4: didn't understand it or believe in how TV was about

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Speaker 4: to change. And here comes this pack of twenty year

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Speaker 4: olds with an attitude. None of us had ever done

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Speaker 4: the jobs before. All we knew is we had grown

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Speaker 4: up with rock and roll and we'd grown up with TV,

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Speaker 4: and the two had never successfully come together. We thought

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Speaker 4: it had always failed because TV people always wanted to

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Speaker 4: try and make music at the TV form a storia.

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Speaker 4: We intended to make TV that the music form mood

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Speaker 4: and emotion. MTV was going to be about attitude and

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Speaker 4: something people wanted to join. We run a mission. So

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Speaker 4: when Iheart's own. John Sykes at the time, a twenty

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Speaker 4: four year old record executive at CBS Records in Chicago,

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Speaker 4: heard what we were up to.

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Speaker 3: Well, he wanted in.

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Speaker 4: So let's talk about MTV. It's nineteen eighty. The word

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Speaker 4: gets out that we're working on this do music channel.

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Speaker 4: How do you hear about it? What does it mean

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Speaker 4: to you? And how on earth did you really get

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Speaker 4: connected to us to get on that original team.

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Speaker 6: I grew up with three things in my life, radio, television,

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Speaker 6: and music.

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Speaker 3: That's all I cared about.

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Speaker 6: When I wasn't in the radio station, I was watching

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Speaker 6: TV or listening to music. Those things, to me shaped

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Speaker 6: our culture. So at school, TV is just starting up,

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Speaker 6: and I saw the cable channels were empty, and music

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Speaker 6: was all over the radio, it was it on television.

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Speaker 6: So we used to go and shoot the concerts at Syracus,

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Speaker 6: and we'd tape them and send them to new channels,

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Speaker 6: and we'd play the concerts and people like, oh my god,

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Speaker 6: I can see the band. And all I wanted to

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Speaker 6: do at that point was put music on television. When

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Speaker 6: I graduated, I went to CBS, said let's put music

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Speaker 6: on Let's run concerts. These three martini lunch guys in

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Speaker 6: New York looked at me like it was crazy. I

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Speaker 6: got a job in the record business promoting radio stations.

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Speaker 6: I wanted to run the radio station. I didn't want

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Speaker 6: to promote them on the radio, but that's the job

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Speaker 6: I had. So then I heard from my friend Steve Casey,

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Speaker 6: was a WLS in Chicago, that his great friend Bob

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Speaker 6: Pittman was in New York and he was going to

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Speaker 6: start a video channel. And I lost my mind. It

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Speaker 6: still gives me goosebumps. I was like, this is what

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Speaker 6: I was made to do, This is what I wanted

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Speaker 6: to do. To me, it was like music belonged on television.

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Speaker 6: So I started calling you, and I called you, and

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Speaker 6: I called you and I called you, and thanks to

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Speaker 6: your assistant and plunk It, who I was annoying so much,

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Speaker 6: he said, all right, Bob, you please talk to this guy.

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Speaker 6: And we met that day with a borrowed support jacket

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Speaker 6: because I hadn't own it. But you and I connected

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Speaker 6: that moment because we had the same vision. Music and

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Speaker 6: television were the two biggest forces in pop culture and they.

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Speaker 3: Were about to be.

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Speaker 4: You know, you look back on any successful product and

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Speaker 4: it seems easy. You were there when we didn't even

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Speaker 4: have approval from the board to do it. We just

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Speaker 4: had some money to develop it. So give us a

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Speaker 4: little color for people who think things are easy and

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Speaker 4: they always go exactly the way you plan.

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Speaker 3: What that early development was like.

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Speaker 6: It is funny and people I go, oh, my god,

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Speaker 6: you and the team that started MTV. That must have

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Speaker 6: been a magical and great ago. I don't know. I

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Speaker 6: was working too hard. We were so in the trenches

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Speaker 6: all the time. It only looks glamorous to day looking back,

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Speaker 6: but when you're in it, it's a slug fest. There

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Speaker 6: was this idea, but to make it happen, we had

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Speaker 6: no money, and we all quit jobs. You were at NBC,

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Speaker 6: I was at CBS. I was the promotion man of

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Speaker 6: the Year in Chicago, and I just said, I'm quitting.

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Speaker 6: People like us, we weren't going to fail. I never

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Speaker 6: thought we were going to fail. I got scared when

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Speaker 6: you'd come in and say, you know, they're going to

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Speaker 6: cut the budgets. We got a few more months. We've

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Speaker 6: got to make our numbers. That just made me say, well,

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Speaker 6: we're gonna have to work hard to make our numbers.

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Speaker 4: I do still remember one conversation we have where I said, Okay,

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Speaker 4: we're going to the board and we're going to pitch

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Speaker 4: this for approval, and you go, what, we don't have approval.

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Speaker 4: I quit my job. We don't have approval. So no, no, John,

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Speaker 4: this was development. All the blood ran out of your

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Speaker 4: face at that moment.

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Speaker 6: I do remember I had to look up because there

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Speaker 6: was no Internet, I had to go in the dictionary,

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Speaker 6: look up the real definition of development. I just thought,

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Speaker 6: we're developing something going No development means it's not going

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Speaker 6: to happen yet, but you know something. But I was like,

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Speaker 6: who cares if it doesn't work, I'll go to sleep

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Speaker 6: on my sister's couch and another job.

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Speaker 3: We were young. John Sykes was so hungry he pounded

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Speaker 3: on our door. Let him in.

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Speaker 4: He believed in music television from the start. But my

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Speaker 4: good pal Fred Cybern, the one who came out of

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Speaker 4: radio and helped create the graphic look of MTV, his

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Speaker 4: reason for getting into TV was very different. One of

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Speaker 4: your great supporters, who I'd worked with and who I

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Speaker 4: loved dearly, Dale Pond, recommended you to me pre MTV.

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Speaker 4: It was in the early days of pay TV. You

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Speaker 4: came over to join us in the cable revolution. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: why did you make that jump?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know this is going to sound flattering. I

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Speaker 2: did it completely because of you. Dale had left the

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Speaker 2: country music radio station and left me alone, and the

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Speaker 2: guy I was working for at that time in radio

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Speaker 2: I had no respect for whatsoever. So you called me

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Speaker 2: one day, he said, you want to be Intellivision. Oh,

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Speaker 2: you said, okay, come have coffee with me. I went

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Speaker 2: to Dale's files and he had files on everyone in

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Speaker 2: the business, and there was one article about you, and

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Speaker 2: I thought to myself, you know, this guy is younger

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Speaker 2: than me and I've heard of him, so that's, you know,

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Speaker 2: one check. So we go, we have the coffee, and

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Speaker 2: I walk out and I called my best friend and

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Speaker 2: I said, this guy that I just talked to is

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Speaker 2: so much smarter than my Boston radio He goes, what

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Speaker 2: do you think about that? I said, Well, here's what

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Speaker 2: Dale taught me. Doesn't matter what the job is, work

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Speaker 2: for the smartest person you can find, and at the time,

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Speaker 2: you were the smartest person I could find.

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Speaker 3: That's what got me too. Toleration that truth be told.

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Speaker 2: When you first told me about it, I thought it

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Speaker 2: was the dumbest idea in the world. Because I was

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Speaker 2: a music guy and I had seen, you know, a

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Speaker 2: few Crimy music videos. I hadn't really thought about it

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Speaker 2: too much, and then luckily somebody played me a music

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Speaker 2: video that made, you know, the little light go off.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether it was blind faith or I

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Speaker 2: was too naive to know that you had to have faith,

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Speaker 2: like you told me it was going to happen, so.

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Speaker 3: I believed you was it youth totally.

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Speaker 2: I was just talking with Alan Goodman, my soon to

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Speaker 2: be partner at that point, and he said, you know,

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Speaker 2: we didn't really know what was going to happen, but

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Speaker 2: you looked at all the other people that were around

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Speaker 2: you and it just had to happen. I think that's

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Speaker 2: really true.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember, but we went to

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Speaker 4: the head of Warner Communications in American Express and we

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Speaker 4: got a meeting with Steve Ross, who the CEO of Warner,

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Speaker 4: along with his deputies David Horowitz, et cetera. And we

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Speaker 4: got Jim Robinson and his deputy Lou Gershner from American Express.

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Speaker 4: We were worried that when we showed these videos too

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Speaker 4: for American Express, go what that stuffed, so he said,

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Speaker 4: let's find the tamest one of my mind. I think

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Speaker 4: we found the Olivia Newton jobs, if you remember. But

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Speaker 4: in the meeting, they said you have to play that

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Speaker 4: kind of stuff, implying Olivia Newton john was too hard

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Speaker 4: to race. But to their credit, Jim Robinson's the first

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Speaker 4: one to say, Okay, I'm in for my alf how

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Speaker 4: about you?

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Speaker 3: Steve so awesome we locked out.

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Speaker 4: The MTV crew we assembled was a bunch of lovable

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Speaker 4: misfits and future Viacom MTV CEO. Tom Preston was no different.

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Speaker 4: It's been several years living in Afghanistan, importing clothes and

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Speaker 4: having adventures across Asia.

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Speaker 5: But when things.

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Speaker 4: Got two political overseas, he made his way back. And

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Speaker 4: just so you don't think Tom went soft sitting the

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Speaker 4: top Viacom After he left the company, he returned to

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Speaker 4: Afghanistan and even has a wonderful story about lying on

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Speaker 4: a floor in a bar and football with a firefight

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Speaker 4: going on all around, the bullets whizzing overhead.

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Speaker 7: I was always trying to figure out where would I

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Speaker 7: fit in in the business world. There wasn't an artist,

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Speaker 7: per se. I wasn't a writer or a musician, but

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Speaker 7: I wanted to always be around creative people. My first

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Speaker 7: grown up jobs essentially we're working in an ad agency.

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Speaker 7: My first account there I worked on was G I Joe. Now,

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Speaker 7: mind you, this was sort of at the height of

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Speaker 7: the Vietnam War and I was in an alienated state

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Speaker 7: to begin with. When they were going to sign me

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Speaker 7: to charm and toilet paper, that was sort of my

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Speaker 7: last straw. I called an ex girlfriend who lived in Paris.

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Speaker 7: I said, they want me to work on a toilet

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Speaker 7: paper account where they had segmented the population and to rollers,

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Speaker 7: folders and crumplers. And she says, well, you can't do that.

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Speaker 7: You should quit that job. Don't be a moron. Come

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Speaker 7: with me. I'm going to go across the Sahara Desert

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Speaker 7: up in Paris. So I was on a plane like

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Speaker 7: ten days later. That was it for me.

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Speaker 4: So Tom set up his clothing company Hinmdoo Cush and

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Speaker 4: ran that successfully for a long while.

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Speaker 7: When I even out of Asia, I thought, whatever I

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Speaker 7: do next, I wanted to be something that I also

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Speaker 7: loved deeply, and that was music. So I methodically looked

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Speaker 7: around getting a job in the music business. Through connections.

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Speaker 7: I ended up in John Lack's office and I told

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Speaker 7: him I thought this was a fantastic idea. He says,

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Speaker 7: we're looking for people who have no experience in television.

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Speaker 7: I said, I'm your man. They didn't even have television

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Speaker 7: where I've been living the last eight years.

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Speaker 4: We were both originally brought to the company for other jobs,

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Speaker 4: by the way, before the MTV development even began, by

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Speaker 4: the incredibly charismatic John Lack, who had this wonderful affliction.

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Speaker 4: He liked to hire people for roles they had never

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Speaker 4: had before, and you and I benefited from that. But

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Speaker 4: you got in here the cable revolution wasn't even recognized

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Speaker 4: as being a revolution. Yet, what did you think you

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Speaker 4: were getting into? I mean, this was still sort of

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Speaker 4: Mickey Mouse compared to the TV business.

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Speaker 7: I thought I was getting into one of the greatest

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Speaker 7: ideas that had ever come around. I had spent parts

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Speaker 7: of the summers in Europe, and I was familiar with

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Speaker 7: the music video which were largely unknown to the American audiences,

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Speaker 7: and they were infectious. And I thought MTV, like all

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Speaker 7: of us on the team, was really one of the

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Speaker 7: great ideas, and all of us were essentially on a

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Speaker 7: crusade we got paid nothing. It was the early eighties

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Speaker 7: version of a startup, very much so. And if you

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Speaker 7: looked at the media environment then nothing had really changed

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Speaker 7: in years. The only thing that had come around knew

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Speaker 7: had been FM radio. There was still three TV networks.

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Speaker 7: Pong was only a few years old.

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Speaker 4: Remember we used to say we're going to do to

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Speaker 4: FM what FM did to AM.

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Speaker 3: That was our big claim.

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Speaker 7: Twenty five channels in the home, can you imagine.

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Speaker 4: Judy McGrath was another key employee in the early days.

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Speaker 4: She eventually rose to be CEO of MTV Networks. Here

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Speaker 4: she has reminiscing about what it meant to make the

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Speaker 4: rules up as we went along.

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Speaker 8: The beauty in the wonder of MTV was that it

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Speaker 8: was really filled with people that I thought could not

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Speaker 8: find gainful employment anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: We couldn't.

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Speaker 8: No, it would be somebody who had never really shot

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Speaker 8: anything and just wanted to get their hands on a

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Speaker 8: camera try it. And we were willing to do that,

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Speaker 8: so I would say absolutely, But remember, don't fall in

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Speaker 8: love with your own idea. This is about someone else,

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Speaker 8: not you. This is about the person on the other side.

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Speaker 8: They're like you, but you can't make this just for you,

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Speaker 8: and there are really no other rules aside from you know,

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Speaker 8: no full frontal nudity. Go out there and do it.

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Speaker 8: And it was so much fun to have the freedom

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Speaker 8: to meet people who were far more creative than I was.

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Speaker 8: I mean when I joined, I didn't know anything about television.

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Speaker 8: I didn't even like it. My interview was with Fred,

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Speaker 8: who said, so, what kind of music do you like?

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Speaker 8: And I think I said Bruce Springsteen. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 8: He said, well, you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 8: And then about forty five minutes later, I left, not

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Speaker 8: having said anything else. And the next thing I know,

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Speaker 8: they were like, well, you know, look, this is just

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Speaker 8: a few of us were trying to get this thing

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Speaker 8: going if you'd like to join, And it was kind

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Speaker 8: of like, how fast can I go out the door

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Speaker 8: of Conde ass and jump on this thing? Whatever it is?

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Speaker 8: These people are crazy.

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Speaker 4: What's funny is that when I ask Fred about it,

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Speaker 4: he remembered the story exactly the same way.

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Speaker 2: She said Bruce Springsteen, and I said wrong because I

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Speaker 2: don't have a good thing about Bruce.

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Speaker 3: The fact that she cared, you know, the Bruce haters

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Speaker 3: are coming after you right now.

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Speaker 2: I believe me, they've been coming after my whole life.

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Speaker 2: The fact that she cared meant all the difference to

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Speaker 2: me in the world. Not that I agreed, you know.

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Speaker 8: I've just found the camaraderie and the purpose and the

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Speaker 8: sheer invention of something that didn't exist, so irresistible. And

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Speaker 8: again on the math side of it, I was saying,

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Speaker 8: I mean this with all sincerity. You had a map

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Speaker 8: in the creative group, you had a plan, and the

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Speaker 8: plan were promises, and I loved that. I am making

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Speaker 8: a promise to you. You sit here, I'm going to

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Speaker 8: deliver something that you've been waiting for. It is the

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Speaker 8: first music television network. It is exactly for you. And

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Speaker 8: I thought, wow, I want my MTV and I have

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Speaker 8: no idea what it is, but those are powerful words

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Speaker 8: my in an era before social media and social engagement.

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Speaker 8: Something for me that felt like mine and want what

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Speaker 8: a powerful word, right, I want my MTV. I took

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Speaker 8: that very seriously. I took those promises to heart. Twenty

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Speaker 8: four hours a day, terrific in stereo, not really, but

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Speaker 8: you know.

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Speaker 3: Hey, it's work. It so for those ten people who

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Speaker 3: did have stereoty brilliant.

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Speaker 8: I remember you saying to me, we want people to

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Speaker 8: think it sounds better than regular television, and they did.

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Speaker 8: It just felt to me like if I could marry

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Speaker 8: all the things I'm interested in with these set of

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Speaker 8: principles and join this crazy band of people who have

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Speaker 8: no right and a lot of audacity and a firm

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Speaker 8: belief that this can work. What a gift. I never

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Speaker 8: looked back, No one second.

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Speaker 5: Let's go back to Fred and chat about that iconic

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Speaker 5: MTV logo.

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Speaker 4: Talk about the logo. You set out, you got the mission.

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Speaker 4: You and I have these discussions. I naively say, we'll

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Speaker 4: do our own Star Wars logo because everybody has a

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Speaker 4: Star Wars logan.

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Speaker 3: You go to bob Ours will look cheap.

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Speaker 4: You said, look, if we do something no one's ever

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Speaker 4: seen before, they won't know it's cheap exactly. So tell

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Speaker 4: me about the logo.

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Speaker 2: Well, the logo itself actually came about because I was

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Speaker 2: too scared to go to someone famous. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: go to Milton Glazer, who's one of the most famous

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Speaker 2: graphic designers of the last fifty years. And I was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: he's going to be really expensive and we'll get all

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Speaker 2: the credit. And I wanted a little credit, you know,

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Speaker 2: at least, so my childhood friend, who I've known since

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Speaker 2: I'm four years old, a guy named Frank Olinsky, had

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Speaker 2: just started a little design firm behind a tai Chiese

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Speaker 2: studio above Bigelo Chemistry on Sixth Avenue. And Frank had

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Speaker 2: been the guy because he's a year older than me,

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Speaker 2: who had always introduced me to every new rock band.

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Speaker 2: He introduced me to the Monkeys, he introduced me to

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Speaker 2: the Mothers of Invention, to the Who to Jeff Beck.

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Speaker 2: So I go down to his little tai Chi studio

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Speaker 2: place and I go, will you guys design a logo

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Speaker 2: for this rock channel we're starting? And they're like yes,

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Speaker 2: And they didn't ask me anything. They didn't ask me

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Speaker 2: how much they were going to get paid or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. And this was right after you sent out

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Speaker 2: the first memo in June of nineteen eighty and boy

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Speaker 2: do I wish I had that memo. So for a

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Speaker 2: year they designed logos and I just rejected everything, probably

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Speaker 2: five hundred designs. Finally they come in the office one day,

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Speaker 2: were actually going to go on the air soon, right,

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Speaker 2: and we still don't have anything, and they bring up

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Speaker 2: pile and I'm like, no, Now I'm going through the

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Speaker 2: whole pile, and at the bottom of the pile is

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Speaker 2: a piece of tracing paper. Remember that, you know the

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Speaker 2: paper you could see through and it was all wrinkled

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Speaker 2: and they had flattened it out. It was just like

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Speaker 2: a sketched TV. I went, Okay, that's the one I

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Speaker 2: can see. Frank like growling. He and I now disagree.

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Speaker 2: But what I had heard is that there's three partners

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Speaker 2: and one of them wasn't really a designer. She was

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Speaker 2: a production manager and she had done it, and Frank

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Speaker 2: saw it and hated him, threw it in the garbage.

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Speaker 2: She fished it out and put it at the bottom

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Speaker 2: of the pile. He says, that's not true, but you know, maybe.

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Speaker 3: Or a good story.

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Speaker 2: The only reason I said yes is that Dale had

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Speaker 2: taught me one lesson about design. You need to dominate

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Speaker 2: the space, and that big block em was the only

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Speaker 2: thing they showed that when you put it on a

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Speaker 2: TV screen, filled the whole screen. Okay, we dominate the space,

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Speaker 2: and in a world of thirty channels.

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Speaker 3: And in a day when the screen was square exactly right.

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Speaker 2: So then I go, oh, you know, we need official colors.

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Speaker 2: So they come to my office with about ten different

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Speaker 2: boards and then a little board where Frank had illustrated

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Speaker 2: ten or twelve of them on.

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Speaker 3: Acrylic overlays and said, this.

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Speaker 2: One will be for the heavy Metal show and this

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Speaker 2: one will be for the New Waves show. And I'm like, Frank,

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Speaker 2: We're not going to have shows, you know.

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Speaker 3: I put it aside.

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Speaker 2: So I put all of the boards up on my

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Speaker 2: pegboard and couldn't decide. And this went on literally for

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Speaker 2: like weeks and weeks and weeks, and then I start

390
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Speaker 2: looking at his little acrylic thing with all the illustration,

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Speaker 2: and I said, why don't we just use them all

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Speaker 2: at once all the time? Or television we move? Shouldn't

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Speaker 2: the logo move? And to be honest with you, that

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Speaker 2: was my first real revelation that I was in television,

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Speaker 2: that we had come up with an idea that only

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Speaker 2: worked in television. You actually were the guy who inspired

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Speaker 2: us to do animated logos. I said, well, what are

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Speaker 2: we going to do in between the videos and the VJs?

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Speaker 2: Are we going to do jingles? And he oh, no,

400
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Speaker 2: we can't do jingles? And I said what do we do?

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Speaker 3: He said, how about this?

402
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Speaker 2: Imagine it's like a picture of a cow. I said, yeah,

403
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Speaker 2: he said, And all of a sudden, an X comes

404
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Speaker 2: down and cuts the cow's head off and it falls

405
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Speaker 2: to the ground and you see the veins coming out

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Speaker 2: and the blood spurting out, and the cow vomits, and

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Speaker 2: in the vomit is the logo. I went, Oh, my god,

408
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Speaker 2: I can do anything I want. This was the most

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Speaker 2: exciting moment of my life. And we started hiring animators

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Speaker 2: to do all that stuff.

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Speaker 4: The other thing you did when you did those promos,

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Speaker 4: you laid the music bed down first, yeah, and cut

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Speaker 4: to the music. People forget this. They don't realize that

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Speaker 4: was an innovation.

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Speaker 2: So I got that all from Dale, and when we

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Speaker 2: started making our first radio spots, we would film country

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Speaker 2: music stars and then he said, well, go to the

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Speaker 2: audio studio and cut the audio track. I went, well,

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Speaker 2: the video guy tells me, no, you have to first

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Speaker 2: do the picture. And then he goes, Fred, we own

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Speaker 2: the audio studio.

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Speaker 3: It's free.

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Speaker 2: If you get it right in the audio studio, then

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Speaker 2: the three hundred dollars an hour video studio will go

425
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Speaker 2: much faster. By the time we got to MTV, I

426
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Speaker 2: realized that he was absolutely wrecked. Now fast forward twenty years.

427
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Speaker 2: I go to MTV one day and I go, who's

428
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Speaker 2: the promo department? Now on the one you're the one.

429
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Speaker 2: What are you talking about? They said, they make us

430
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Speaker 2: do the audio first. We're filmed. People like why, So

431
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Speaker 2: twenty years later they were still doing it.

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Speaker 3: But boy, what it did is it brought rhythm.

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Speaker 4: So we had a logo and we were a band

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Speaker 4: of believers. But part of getting MTV to stick was

435
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Speaker 4: proving the channel's worth to the record companies. Artists loved

436
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 4: the idea of being on TV, but the labels needed

437
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 4: to be convinced. At the time, David said music should

438
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 4: be heard and not seen. We needed a case study,

439
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 4: a story to prove we sold records.

440
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 5: I talked to John Psykes about it.

441
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: We launch MTV, we get it underway.

442
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 4: We're trying to get some evidence that it's working because

443
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 4: the record companies are hemorrhaging money those years. They were

444
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 4: thinking about cutting videos out of their budget, which of

445
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 4: course we've been a disaster for. So we said we

446
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 4: got to get some evidence ahead of the budget cycle.

447
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 4: And you and Tom Preston go on the road to Tulsa, Oklahoma,

448
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 4: just told on a second, because we've got so much

449
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 4: more to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break.

450
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 4: Tell me what happened in Tulsa.

451
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 6: We believe this was working, we felt it, but we

452
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 6: needed facts. We needed to convince a record business. So

453
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 6: it was like, we need a story, Tom, John, go

454
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 6: on their own, don't come back to you have a story.

455
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 6: And Tulsa didn't happen until we went to Syracuse, Houston

456
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 6: and we went to the cable markets. So Tom and

457
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 6: I driving through Tulsa in a rental car literally with

458
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 6: a map of record stores and going into places. So

459
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 6: you sold in the least records selling Duran, Duran sold

460
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 6: in the Tulips to Nope, Nope, So we kept driving driving.

461
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 6: I still remember it was a record story in an

462
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 6: old house and Tom and I trudge in and we

463
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 6: say solely this only that so only durand Drandrin. I

464
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 6: sold two boxes of durand.

465
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: Dran records last week.

466
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 6: What you sold two box? You sold fifty records, twenty

467
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 6: five records in a box. Can we have your name

468
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 6: and can we use your phone? We called a box

469
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 6: and Bob, Bob, we have story.

470
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: We have a story. We have a record store.

471
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 6: That's selling music's only played on MTV. And you said, great,

472
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 6: get a name, get the information. We need an article,

473
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 6: and so we hang up the phone. I turned to Tom.

474
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 6: We go Tom, we get to go home.

475
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 4: And we took that and we wrote it as a

476
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 4: case study and we ran it in Billboard and the

477
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 4: music magazines to influence the record company. I keep going,

478
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 4: I have the of course you do. You have everything

479
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 4: we ever did at MTV. You are the pack rat.

480
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 6: I have that one sheet MTV sells records. Joey Smith,

481
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 6: and boy that Joey Smith. Wherever you are and tell

482
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 6: us Oklahoma, thank thank you.

483
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: If you're wondering why we picked those places, Syracuse, Houston, Talsa,

484
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 4: it's because those were the few markets where we had

485
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: enough cable density that we could make a point. These

486
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 4: cities ended up being little laboratories where we could peek

487
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 4: in and take measurements and show the world just how

488
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 4: effective MTV was going to be. So it proved our

489
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 4: worth to the record companies. But you have to remember

490
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 4: we still had the events cable operators to carry MTV.

491
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 4: They wanted to be paid to carry our channel, and frankly,

492
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 4: we didn't have the money. So we had to come

493
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 4: up with a breakthrough idea and genius campaign that could

494
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: do all the heavy lifting. Here Tom Preston and Fred

495
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,719
Speaker 4: Seibert telling that story.

496
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 5: Let's start the talk.

497
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 4: When we launched MTV. You were the head of marketing.

498
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: The cable operator wouldn't put MTV on. They wanted us

499
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: to pay them. One we didn't have the money, and

500
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 4: two that was probably a slippery slope, and so we

501
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 4: decided we would use a whole strategy to get distribution.

502
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 3: I want my MTV.

503
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 7: Well it was sort of a Hail Mary pass because

504
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 7: you know, we're about to go under. No one in

505
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 7: the organization knew we were about to go under, So

506
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 7: how are we going to get these cable operators at us?

507
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 7: When we knew in fact that the people who actually

508
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 7: had it in the few towns where it existed, they

509
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 7: loved it. They were fanatical about it. So we actually

510
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 7: had to go over their heads. And the idea was

511
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 7: that campaign I Want My MAPO, which I remembered as

512
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 7: a baby boomer in the fifties, some obnoxious I want

513
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 7: my MAPO, but I want my MTV.

514
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: The actual spot said they grew up with rock and roll,

515
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: they grew up with television now they want their MTV.

516
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: George Lois, who never saw something that he couldn't copy,

517
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 2: had already copied a famous TV commercial from the fifties

518
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: called I Want my mapo for a really horrendous tasting

519
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,959
Speaker 2: time r exactly and he redid it with Mick Jagger and

520
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: David Bowie. And on the beginning of the spot he

521
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: had ped Towns in doing it, America demand your MTV.

522
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 2: Then people go, I want my MTV. I want my MTV,

523
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: and then p Towns and again with a telephone going

524
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: call your cable operator and say I want my TAB

525
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: And they showed us this spot.

526
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 7: So if we could get major rock stars in a

527
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 7: commercial to kind of hold our logo, validate it, hold

528
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 7: it and command people to call their cable company and

529
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 7: demand their MTV, make it look cool, put some animation

530
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 7: around it, and then put it in these markets at

531
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 7: very high frequency. We go into a market and it'd

532
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 7: be like a Blockbuster movie was opening. Most people in

533
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 7: the market had never heard of MTV.

534
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: So we went and we pitched it to you. I

535
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: think you saw the feeling of it right away.

536
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 4: Well, there's a lesson in this too that you've always

537
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 4: done very early well, which is harnessing the power of partners.

538
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 4: In the case of I want my MTV music stars

539
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 4: who were willing to be in the commercial for free

540
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: to help us accomplish goals, but you also have music

541
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 4: companies and others.

542
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: Dale was this brilliant hybrid of a strategist and a

543
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: creative guy. And as a strategist, what he understood is

544
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: that we had no money to spend on this ad.

545
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 2: I remember going into our boss's office and saying, but

546
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: HBO spending ten million dollars a year in advertising, goes,

547
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: you're lucky you have two somehow or other, the people

548
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: in the media business didn't actually believe in advertising. It

549
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: is the weirdest thing. And so I went to Dale.

550
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: I said, look, we only have two million dollars, and

551
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: he did an incredible data dump of where could MTV

552
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: be put on against how much media cost in that

553
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: particular market, and he did three or four or five

554
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: cross tabs to figure out the most likely places that

555
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: if we.

556
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: Put on these spots, we'd have an embed that we

557
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 3: would get.

558
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: People calling and making the cable operators insane. And god,

559
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: I think we made customer representatives from all over America

560
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: crazy within four weeks.

561
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 7: Next thing, you know, every cable operator there were eleven

562
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 7: of them in a market, which would not be unusual.

563
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 7: On time, they'd all call up and surrender. So we

564
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 7: would move at market by market for a couple of

565
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 7: years across the country, going from like what was seven

566
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 7: million subscribers ended up being eighty or ninety million.

567
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 4: I had a guy who stop me at a cable

568
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 4: operator and said, I hate you, and I go, why

569
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: do you hate me? And he goes because my phone

570
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 4: rings all day with those people saying I want my MP.

571
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: I can't get any work done.

572
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 4: In my chats with the co founders, there's a lot

573
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 4: of fondness for this deviant culture we had. MTV was fine.

574
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 4: It was definitely anti establishment. And the truth is even

575
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 4: the promotions dripped with the brand sensibility. In some ways

576
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: they defined the brand sensibility. There's some of the crazy

577
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 4: stories too. It was fun reminiscing with John Sykes about them.

578
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: You were the guy who did the promotions.

579
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: You came up with these great ideas and fortunately unfortunately

580
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 4: with the women that also executed them. You did the

581
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,479
Speaker 4: Paint the House paint promotion with John Mellencamp. You did

582
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 4: the Lost Weekend with Van Halen. What formula were you using?

583
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 6: Goes back to that connecting New York thing of being

584
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 6: a dreamer.

585
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: Because I was the kid.

586
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 6: I was the viewer who thought, oh my god, if

587
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 6: only I could dot dot dot.

588
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: So when you said we've got.

589
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 6: To put together some promotions, we got to go bigger

590
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 6: than life, we go, what are we going to do?

591
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 6: I just said to myself, okay, what would anybody give

592
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 6: their eye teeth to do? What would be the fantasy

593
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 6: of all fantasies? And I remember just John had done

594
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 6: a song called pink Houses. So let's give away a

595
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 6: house and you're going to paint the mother pink.

596
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: Tell us about the first house you bought.

597
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 6: When you had to execute it, I mean you had

598
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 6: to go find a house, You had to go buy

599
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 6: a house, You had to go actually get a team

600
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 6: to paint it pink. You got to go fly people in.

601
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: So we went and you had no money, so we

602
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: had to buy the chiefest house you could find.

603
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 6: So Bob goes, take a cashier's check and just go

604
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 6: buy a house. And I go, okay, So I flew

605
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 6: in Indiana and John Mellencamp, who loved the idea, sends

606
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 6: his ex wife to meet me to show me around

607
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 6: it by some house. She's a realtor. So we go

608
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 6: and I go, okay. I got about two hours before

609
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 6: I get the flight back to New York. Show me

610
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 6: four houses. First house we buy, the woman is there,

611
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 6: she's cookies for me. The kids are out front, they've

612
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 6: cleaned it up.

613
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: This was a shock. I felt so bad for her.

614
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 6: She was a single mom. Look at this house and

615
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 6: I said, so, dude, it's a We can paint this pink,

616
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 6: so I wrote, I checked, thirty two thousand dollars, bought

617
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 6: the house. Her jaw dropped. No realtor just handed the

618
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 6: check and got in the car. Drove back when you

619
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 6: opened up Rolling Stone. Three weeks later, MTV buy his

620
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 6: house on toxic waste dump. So so I call you,

621
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 6: go Bob. I had no idea, John Mellencamp writes me

622
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 6: letters I have today. Dear John, I'm sure you've read

623
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 6: Rolling Stone by now, and I'm sure you wouldn't want

624
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 6: to give a house on a toxic waste stump. And

625
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 6: I'm going, oh my god, we're stuck with a house.

626
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 6: So I had to fly. I can get an other house.

627
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 6: But that's not the good. Double the budget, double the budget.

628
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 6: The good story was the Last Weekend with Van Halen.

629
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 6: That one really really defined MTV as a serious, dangerous

630
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 6: rock and roll brand to consumers. There was a movie

631
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 6: called The Last Weekend. Gray Mulland was in there and

632
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 6: the guy loses his mind whatever, and so we just said,

633
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 6: let's do a Last Week with a band. Who's the

634
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 6: craziest band out there right now, van Halen. Van Halen

635
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: wouldn't do any promotion because they were worried about their image.

636
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 6: We called them with the idea like we're in. We're in,

637
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 6: and by the way, we'll fulfill the contest. You don't

638
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 6: have to do anything. Just drop off the fans with

639
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 6: us and we'll deliver them back on Sunday.

640
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: So we did that.

641
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 6: The kid arrives and they take him at four o'clock

642
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 6: in the afternoon right into the backstage, and everything you

643
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 6: can imagine would happened with Van Halen happened. So by

644
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 6: the time the band goes on stage at nine o'clock

645
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 6: at night, this guy is fried. There's been things that

646
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 6: were not a Warner Amex and Condole or MTV notice activity.

647
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 6: So he's standing on stage a completely out of his mind,

648
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 6: and David Lee Roth goes, we have the winner tonight

649
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 6: of the MTV Lost Weekend, Joe Smith. You know, Joe, Congratulations.

650
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 6: They bring out a giant sheet cake. He's got his

651
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 6: hands up from the air and the bands around him,

652
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 6: and they take the sheet cake and they push it

653
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 6: into his face and the guy is stunned and he

654
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 6: starts curling around swinging punches at the band.

655
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: The Pan freaks out.

656
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 6: They take him off and they bring him backstage and

657
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 6: we say to his friend, what's wrong with him? And

658
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 6: he said, we forgot to tell you. He has a

659
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 6: metal plate in his head. He was in an accident.

660
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 6: He's not supposed to drink, so they had to put

661
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 6: him in a room with a security guard all night.

662
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 6: But that kind of made the legend of MTV. I

663
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 6: wish we could take credit for that, but that was it.

664
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: So the contest. Maybe we're lucky we can't take credit

665
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: for it.

666
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 6: You know what those contests did, They creates the fantasy

667
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 6: and the aspiration that makes someone want to be attracted

668
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 6: to a product.

669
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: MTV could have been a flash of the Pan, but

670
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: the marketing spirit captured an attitude that young America responded to.

671
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: People tuned in just to see what was going on

672
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 4: on MTV. It was a place to hang out, and

673
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 4: as the word spread, the channel made money. Although MTV

674
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 4: was the most radical of the cable channels, it was

675
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 4: also the first cable network to actually make a profit.

676
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 4: And we had the highest AD revenue of any of

677
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 4: the cable networks. And remember this was a time when

678
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 4: people didn't believe cable networks could even be profitable. Boy

679
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: did that feel good. But part of keeping the channel

680
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 4: successful was continuing to think outside the mainstream and continue

681
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: to come up with new ideas.

682
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 5: Here's bread again.

683
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: We had these creative promo departments. Once people came in

684
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: and started saying, well, I worked on promos over here,

685
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: I didn't want to hire them. One of the earliest

686
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: people I hired had just come out of film school

687
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: in his first job was cutting film negatives at a

688
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: porno place. I'm like, okay, fine, you won't remember this,

689
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: but one day you called me into your office and

690
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: you said, hey, I need you to be the head

691
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: of production. I said, Bob, you know I've never seen

692
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: even the red light on top of a camera go on,

693
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: and you went, oh, don't worry, you'll figure it out.

694
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: And that was that, and all of a sudden, I

695
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: was in television.

696
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: And you did a really great job. Thank you.

697
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: But it wasn't just people like Fred who got an

698
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: opportunity to MTV. Here Judy and Tom talking about how

699
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 4: he kept an eye out for new talent and groomed

700
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: them upward, and the culture that the two of them

701
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: kept going and kept building at the company even after

702
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 4: I left. If you think about it, in the days

703
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: of MTV, we're probably looking back at an extraordinary number

704
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: of women and very important roles. Today would be crowing

705
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 4: about it. Probably, you know, whether you like it or not.

706
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 4: You have been mentoring people, You've been setting an example.

707
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 4: How do you handle that responsibility? What do you do

708
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: consciously about that?

709
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 8: I began to see I was sort of a better

710
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 8: editor coach than I was a player. I can remember

711
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 8: some things that just felt like personal milestones to me.

712
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: You know.

713
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 8: One of the great fun things I got to do

714
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 8: would be hanging out in the rehearsals for the Video

715
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 8: Music Awards, and I was there and I was thinking, Wow,

716
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 8: you know, we've got a female director. We have a

717
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 8: female on stage managing the crew. We have a young

718
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 8: woman who's the head writer. We have a young woman

719
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 8: in charge of seating in events. But we've got women

720
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 8: in roles that were not traditionally women's roles. They were

721
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 8: just really good. And I do think it's incumbent on

722
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 8: somebody who gets an opportunity, like I got to look

723
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 8: out for underrepresented people in general. And so you know,

724
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 8: when Beth McCarthy Miller raised her hand, was an easy like,

725
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 8: let's let Beth direct, come on, like, she can do it.

726
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 8: We know she can do it. Everybody knows she can

727
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 8: do it. And I looked around and thought, wow, this

728
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 8: whole thing is kind of really looking very different than

729
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 8: most of the other sets that I've been on. I

730
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 8: once heard Tina Fey say something about it's a panel

731
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 8: where a bunch of women were sort of congratulating each

732
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 8: other for different things, and someone said they were lucky,

733
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 8: and a bunch of other women jumped on her and said,

734
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 8: oh my god. Women always say they're lucky. Men never

735
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 8: say they're lucky. You made your own luck. And Tina

736
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 8: was actually very thoughtful about it, and she said, I

737
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 8: think timing plays a role in something as well as

738
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 8: luck and talent. And you know, I always felt like

739
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 8: I worked with men who were not typical and young

740
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 8: employees who are not typical. So how ridiculous would it

741
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 8: be to take a typical approach to anything else. We

742
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 8: were upending tradition all the time, and not just for

743
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 8: the sake of doing it, but because you give somebody

744
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 8: a chance, they'll knock themselves out to show you that

745
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 8: they could really do it.

746
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: And we actually talked about it back then.

747
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 4: We said, you know, if somebody's done three or four

748
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 4: things and they're not great, we have empirical evidence they

749
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 4: won't be great.

750
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but if we give.

751
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 4: Somebody a shot who's never done it, they could be

752
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: the next Steven Spielberg. Exactly right, And the only way

753
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: we're going to find out is to take a shot,

754
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 4: exactly And you continued to do that through your career.

755
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 7: A lot of focus was on we're eating a culture

756
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 7: that would attract creative people. They would want to come

757
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 7: and live there. I mean, we'd have at one point

758
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 7: Judd Apatow or Ben Stiller or John Stewart, Stephen Colbert,

759
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 7: you know, Adam Sandler would like be sleeping in the offices.

760
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 7: Sometimes it was a hothouse atmosphere.

761
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 4: You were probably the first talent incubator. I don't think

762
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 4: they called them that back then. How did you pull

763
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 4: that together? Because it is really remarkable the people you had.

764
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 7: Well, a lot of it is sort of what's the

765
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 7: vibe of the place. We always wanted to make the

766
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 7: room for deviancy. I would always say, who's the odd ballperson,

767
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 7: Who's the intern who's going to come running in with

768
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 7: an idea LIKEYOMTV raps. That was like a twenty one

769
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 7: year old intern who came up with a demo in

770
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 7: his basement. Because we had these networks, there was a

771
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 7: lot of room for experimentation. Everything you made didn't have

772
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 7: to be really tightly organized. There was a lot of

773
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 7: room for improvisation and innovation. If you have a hallmark

774
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 7: for that, people would want to step up and follow us.

775
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 7: You just try and have good standards, provide guard rails

776
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 7: for people, celebrate risk, you know, we give creative people

777
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 7: a lot of freedom.

778
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 4: One of the people who was crucial tim TV's early

779
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 4: success it was former NPR CEO y'all Mom y'arel and

780
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 4: I went way back. We even had a show called

781
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 4: album tracks that aired after Saturday Night Live. But y'arell

782
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 4: had an incredible eye for programming, and when MTV had

783
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,479
Speaker 4: to think beyond music videos, he played a crucial role.

784
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 4: For me.

785
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 9: It was a great transition from the radio world to

786
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 9: the television world because there were so many similarities. If

787
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 9: you had picked me up and tried to drop me

788
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 9: into a broadcast network to do scripted filmed entertainment, I

789
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 9: would have I think, flailed and failed miserably. But ultimately

790
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 9: we all learned a lot of lessons about the fragility

791
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 9: of this brand new thing music videos, and that was

792
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 9: something we all kind of had to learn in real time.

793
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: It was humbling, it was embarrassing, and do you think

794
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: it stopped working.

795
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 9: There was so much heat around music videos at the time,

796
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 9: and there were so many people watching and being really

797
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 9: enthralled by but I think ultimately it became less interesting.

798
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 9: It was television and we were using a lot I was,

799
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 9: at least using a lot of radio rules for a

800
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 9: different medium, and people were making four minute decisions of

801
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 9: what they were going to watch and not thirty minute

802
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 9: and sixty minute or ninety minute decisions, and ultimately had

803
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 9: to switch strategy to go to content that people would

804
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 9: watch for longer periods of time, long form, and that

805
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 9: was very controversial at the time, but.

806
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 3: You know it worked. What were your first shows?

807
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 9: And we started with The Week in Rock and hiring

808
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 9: Kurt Loader from Rolling Stone magazine and taking the MTV

809
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 9: news segments and making it a half hour show, and

810
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 9: that worked, and then Rockumentaries and Specials as the second.

811
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 9: The third was Club MTV is let's do an American

812
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 9: band stand for today, Let's play music videos and hire

813
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 9: Downtown Julie Brown.

814
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: That was a hit.

815
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 9: Every show that went on did well. Then we're really

816
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 9: cocky and thinking, man, we really know how to make hits.

817
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 9: But I think it was more reflection of the fact

818
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 9: that music videos at the time had run their course.

819
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 9: The most controversial one remote Control of the Game Show,

820
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 9: and all the research came back said you can't do

821
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 9: a game show. And I remember saying to our good

822
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 9: friend Marshall Cohen, we worked with an MTV research guru, Yes,

823
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 9: I said, I think we're asking the wrong question. The

824
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 9: question should be if we were to do a game show,

825
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 9: what would it look like? And the answer came back, well,

826
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 9: it should be Irreverence'd be crazy. We used all the

827
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 9: information and hired Ken Ober and Colin Quinn and Adam

828
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 9: Sandler was a regular on the show and it was

829
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 9: a monster. But the additional research the way we asked

830
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 9: it indicated that there would have been a disaster.

831
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,959
Speaker 3: It worked out great for Were you able to sell

832
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 3: that to advertisement?

833
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 5: Yep?

834
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: Oh I loved it?

835
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah.

836
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 4: So MTV started to play with new formats, but as

837
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: Preston remembers it, the limited budgets were actually an engine

838
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 4: for creativity.

839
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 7: We couldn't just innovate it by shuffling the music mix

840
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 7: or changing things. That was clear. We tried everything. We

841
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 7: just couldn't play the top ten videos all day long.

842
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 7: There was always new shows coming around. We would add

843
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 7: shows onpackaged music and like on hip hop music with

844
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 7: the OMTV raps and so forth, and it kind of

845
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 7: came down to the real world. That was in nineteen

846
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 7: ninety three, and that was like, well, we've tried everything else,

847
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 7: we should probably do a soap opera because young people

848
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 7: are interested in what other young people are doing. So

849
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 7: they came in with a presentation to me and we

850
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 7: had the hire writers, and I said, well, you know,

851
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 7: we don't have any money to hire writers, so we

852
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 7: can't do this. So then Doug Herzog came back and said,

853
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 7: you know, we're really good at post production, that's our

854
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 7: major skill. What if we just rented Aloft and Soho

855
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 7: and stuck some cameras in there and bring these kids

856
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 7: in and then let them live, and then we'll post

857
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 7: it afterwards and make it into a show. And that

858
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 7: was That was sort of the birth of reality. It

859
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 7: was an idea that was not born of brilliance but

860
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 7: born of cheapskateness.

861
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 4: MTV was a success story finally, but it wasn't long

862
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: before the competition started circling. Here's Tom with the story

863
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: of what motivated us to start VH one.

864
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 7: Ted Turner wanted to come in and basically p in

865
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 7: our parade. He said he was going to launch a

866
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 7: music channel that played none of the Devil's music. Let

867
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 7: me say first that the cable music channel lasted one

868
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 7: hundred and one days on the air and he had

869
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 7: to fold up and go home. But we decided we

870
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 7: can't let this happen, and if there's going to be

871
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 7: a second music channel, we should have a second music channel.

872
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 7: And we made the case the cable operators, we have

873
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 7: a second music channel. You don't want to add the

874
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 7: Ted Turner channel. That's just going to go head to

875
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 7: head against the one you already have. Add VH one,

876
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 7: which we call the very Hot one at the time,

877
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 7: because it would be more compatible and it would play

878
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 7: artists for another demo and we would sell it to

879
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 7: you on a combo basis. Basically it was free if

880
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 7: you already had MTV. So we strangled him in terms

881
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 7: of not being able to get distribution. Therefore no advertising,

882
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 7: no revenue, no light on the end of the tunnel,

883
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 7: and he went out of business and we went forward.

884
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 4: Of course, launching EH one was one thing. It was

885
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 4: a savvy move, a classic fighting brand. It was essential

886
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 4: and fighting off Ted Turner's channel. But once that was over,

887
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 4: the team had to figure out what to do with it.

888
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: The network struggled for years. Ratings were abysmal, so John Sykes,

889
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 4: who had left MTV by then, was called back to

890
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: lead the charge. Tom Preston calls job says, come home,

891
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: need you to fix a VH one.

892
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 3: What did you do?

893
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 6: As you know, Bob, because you taught me so much

894
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 6: of the stuff. A brand is only valuable if there

895
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 6: is an underserved segment of the audience that needs it.

896
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 6: Hip hop was starting to happen. ALTERNI music was exploding,

897
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 6: and a lot of the traditional rock bands in R

898
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 6: and B bands were being pushed out and they're going

899
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 6: like an off of the cliff. And I said, there's

900
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 6: a market here, because having run a record company, a

901
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 6: publishing company, we were seeing these artists that used to

902
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 6: be called middle of the road back then, but now

903
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 6: they were actually vibrant pop bands. They didn't have a place.

904
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 6: And then I saw who are the most powerful buyers,

905
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 6: young adults, young college graduates. Here's a generation it's grown

906
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 6: up on MTV. They have money, they're affluent, and they

907
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 6: have nowhere to go. So I was as excited actually

908
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 6: about VH one as I was about MTV. I mean,

909
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 6: MTV is iconic and it will be there forever. But

910
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 6: the other thing about VH one to me also was

911
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 6: it was my own and I knew if I fell,

912
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 6: it would be on me.

913
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 3: It would be likes out.

914
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 6: If VH one fails, they used to call it VH

915
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 6: point one.

916
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 3: It was the rating of it again.

917
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 6: And for those people who ratings, ratings are from zero

918
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 6: to whatever, and point one's of zero to one hundred.

919
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 6: VH one is the ugly step child at MTV Networks.

920
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 6: I used to say it was nails out the backseat

921
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 6: of a car to put flats in the tires of

922
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 6: the cars behind us, because we didn't want anbody compete

923
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 6: with MTV. But I said, now it quietly has thirty

924
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 6: million homes. There's a market for this. And I looked

925
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 6: in the room and have the people like or a

926
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 6: sleep bicycle that quit and staying they had a job,

927
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 6: but they didn't believe in the product, but they were

928
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 6: reflecting a paycheck. So I said, listen, if you don't

929
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 6: believe in this, it's okay. We won't make a big

930
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 6: thing and we're going to fire you, but we'll work

931
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 6: out a package and you should leave because we need

932
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 6: people going to believe in this. There's a market for this,

933
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 6: and I believe that this is gonna be a three

934
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 6: hundred million dollar business in the next three years if

935
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 6: we all focus on that. So people came to me

936
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 6: and said I don't want to do this.

937
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 3: I didn't think they.

938
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 6: I don't think they would come like, I don't think

939
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 6: you're right. I'm like, okay, well, thank you God, bye.

940
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 6: They all came back three years later looking for jobs.

941
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 6: But it was about believing in yourself, believing your idea,

942
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 6: hiring people around you who are better than you at

943
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 6: executing what they did. And we put together a team

944
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 6: at VH one hooping under run, NBC, Nintendo, Bravo. We

945
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 6: put together an all star trip. So it made me

946
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 6: proud and working with some of the red I mean

947
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 6: some Redstone nineteen ninety four was on his game. You

948
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 6: walked in and said, here's my plan, here's what I

949
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 6: want to do. And he'd just said, fine, go do it.

950
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 6: If you don't do it, I'll fire you. I said,

951
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 6: that's all I want to know. Just give me the rope,

952
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 6: and he did. It was a great nine years. We

953
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 6: shattered all the records there, but all good businesses you

954
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 6: got to reinvent them otherwise they paid it off.

955
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 4: MTV was the starting point of a cable revolution. The

956
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 4: channel and the creative engine we built gave birth to

957
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 4: so much more. Here's Tom talking about just that topic.

958
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 7: I was ambitious and I was highly motivated for this

959
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 7: to succeed. I thought that we were in this TV revolution.

960
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 7: We had the wind at our back. It was all

961
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 7: going to come true. It was too good of an

962
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 7: idea to fail. You know, a lot of life is

963
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 7: about timing and luck, and I had somehow ended up

964
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 7: once again in the right place at the right time,

965
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 7: and this was sort of my destiny. I was going

966
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 7: to meet my opportunity and.

967
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,959
Speaker 4: What you did, you know, I would say my time there.

968
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: We really proved it was a business. Were the first

969
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 4: cable network to make a profit. But it was really

970
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 4: you and your team, including Juden Grath, who built MTV

971
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 4: and the other networks into this incredible media giant. What

972
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 4: drove that and where did that vision come from? And

973
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 4: how did you get there?

974
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 7: There's a compliment to you, Bob, I mean, you are

975
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 7: the guy I always keep your eye on the consumer,

976
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 7: find out what the consumer wanted. We would always see

977
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 7: this research the consumer wanted what we were selling, and

978
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 7: we could tune it up a bit. And we also

979
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 7: had this sort of slightly subversive, underground feel and you know,

980
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 7: there was nothing really around like that. And we would

981
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 7: continue to launch new networks Comedy Central or tv Land,

982
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 7: and the whole international world of television began to deregulate

983
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 7: in the late eighties. All these countries really only had

984
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 7: State TV pretty much as you know. So the confidence

985
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 7: I had built from my years living in Afghanistan and

986
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 7: India was actually very transferable because I really knew we

987
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 7: could go anywhere and do anything. And if we could

988
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 7: go to Europe, we could go to Asia, we go

989
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 7: to Latin America. So we built really the first worldwide

990
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 7: television networking company, and we rolled out not just MTV,

991
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 7: but also Nickelodeon and Comedy Central, a lot of others

992
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 7: right down through Africa. So the business gradually evolved from

993
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 7: one where we would package other people's product like a

994
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 7: music video, to where we would increasingly own what we did.

995
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 7: But at the heart of it all was a creative machine,

996
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 7: which again was something that you put in at the

997
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 7: inception of the company.

998
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 4: When we first started MTV, it wasn't just entertainment. We

999
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 4: built a channel to be the voice of young America

1000
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 4: and that included doing good and my time there, MTV

1001
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 4: made its mark with massive events, with important missions AMNSKY International,

1002
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 4: band Aid, Farm Aid and of course Live Aid. But

1003
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 4: it was Rock the Vote that truly took the channel

1004
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 4: into politics, and some say even got a president elected.

1005
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 4: Here's Judy talking about it. You've always done good, rocked

1006
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 4: the Vote, juice or lose AIDS awareness? How did you

1007
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 4: think about that inside of a company, and how do

1008
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 4: you think of it for you as a as a.

1009
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 8: Person, Well, you know, inside MTV, it was very interesting

1010
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 8: when we decided to get into you know, and certainly

1011
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 8: Rock the Vote was not our idea. Politicians Jeff airaf So,

1012
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 8: Jeff was very passionate about this, and it sort of

1013
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 8: grew into Rock the Vote. And I remember talking to

1014
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 8: Tom Preston, with whom I had an extraordinarily great creative relationship,

1015
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 8: and this was one of the rare instances where we

1016
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 8: had a blowout. Really we really didn't agree, but I

1017
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 8: listened to what he said. He said, this is a

1018
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 8: terrible idea. It's not going to work. This is an

1019
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 8: entertainment brand. Nobody cares about this. We're going to get

1020
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 8: laughed out of town. We do not have permission to

1021
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 8: do this. There's nothing about us that says we should

1022
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 8: be stepping anywhere near an election or voting or any

1023
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 8: of this. So I went back and I thought about

1024
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 8: it a little bit, and I thought, Okay, this is

1025
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 8: where I come into the picture. I think I grew

1026
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 8: up in an era where one of the many things

1027
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 8: I loved about music was it's social commentary, and it

1028
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 8: is about the times we live in and it's about

1029
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,479
Speaker 8: all the things that affect you in a very deep way.

1030
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 8: And I thought, I think there's a way to do

1031
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 8: this where it will be engaging. This was not about

1032
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 8: telling young people you need to vote. That's not the

1033
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 8: way I looked at it at all. It was saying

1034
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 8: to people who make big decisions in this country, this

1035
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 8: is a generation that is disengaged from you, and you

1036
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 8: need to address them on their turf, their way, and

1037
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 8: we'll invite you to do that. That's your shot. It

1038
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 8: wasn't about trying to be parental or any of that

1039
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 8: kind of stuff to them, or give them boring facts

1040
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 8: or anything like that. And so we got as smart

1041
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 8: as we could get. And I think I didn't tell anybody.

1042
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 8: That's another thing. I sent tabitha'sre and Tabitha went to

1043
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 8: New Hampshire and she called me at like midnight. She said,

1044
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 8: you know, I got up here in like a bunch

1045
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 8: of candidates are like, what's MTV? And she said, and

1046
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 8: then a couple of them like got back off the bus,

1047
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 8: primarily Bill Clinton and said I'll talk to you, and

1048
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 8: then we were sort of off and running. And you

1049
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 8: know that partnered with incredible creative work on those rock

1050
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 8: to Vote spots, I mean Madonna wrapped in a flag.

1051
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 4: Whatever their disagreement, Tom Preston quickly embraced the idea.

1052
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 7: We knew it was important to our audience. I also

1053
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 7: knew it was extremely important to the employee base. Employees

1054
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 7: would feel better about working there if they knew we

1055
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 7: had some kind of social purpose associated with what we

1056
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 7: would do, and we had one hundred and sixty eight

1057
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 7: hours a week, we could certainly squeeze it in. It

1058
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 7: also turned out it legitimized us in the eyes of

1059
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 7: advertisers who formerly wouldn't come near us, like American Express.

1060
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 7: But most importantly, the audience liked it.

1061
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 8: And then fast forward to you know, we're going to

1062
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 8: throw an inaugural ball that's not official and see if

1063
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 8: anybody comes to the party, and our EM's going to

1064
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 8: play and Vogue's going to play. We tried to make

1065
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 8: it as spirited as MTV, but at a little bit

1066
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 8: of gravitas, if you will, and meaning you know, like

1067
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 8: you do matter. You are young, but you matter, and

1068
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 8: you deserve to be heard and listen to, and we

1069
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 8: were going to help you.

1070
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 5: MTV was a wonderful ride. From the very beginning.

1071
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 4: My co founders and I knew we were doing something

1072
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 4: that was important to culture, but we had no idea

1073
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,240
Speaker 4: we were going to change culture.

1074
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 5: MTV change TV.

1075
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 4: It changed music, it changed graphic design, and it certainly

1076
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 4: changed my life. No matter how old I get or

1077
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 4: whatever else I've done, MTV is still an important chapter

1078
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 4: of my life, and all of us as co founders

1079
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 4: are still very much a very tight family. But the

1080
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 4: truth is, looking back, I think we all feel the

1081
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 4: same way Tom Freston felt when he joined the team.

1082
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 7: I was happy to have a job. I couldn't believe

1083
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 7: anyone was going to hire me, and lucky.

1084
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 4: For all of us, we all kept getting hired again

1085
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 4: and again. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: That's it for today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a

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Speaker 1: production iHeartRadio. This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent,

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Speaker 1: which is no small feat Nikki Etoor for pulling research

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Speaker 1: bill Plax and Michael Azar for their recording help are

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Speaker 1: editor Ryan Murdoch and of course Gail Raoul, Eric Angel,

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Speaker 1: Noel Mango and everyone who helped bring this show to

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Speaker 1: your ears. Until next time,