1
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,079
Speaker 1: Never Told You a production of iHeart Radio. So we

3
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,440
Speaker 1: are back with our part two of our classic reruns

4
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: on the miss of virginity. Because we have been talking

5
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 1: about that, We've been talking about purity culture, we've been

6
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,000
Speaker 1: talking about religion, we've been talking about abstinence. All of

7
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 1: these things and all of the morality that gets tied

8
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: up into these things.

9
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 2: It's a lot. It's a lot.

10
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:38,320
Speaker 3: It's a lot.

11
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,360
Speaker 1: So please enjoy our second part on the miss of

12
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:50,199
Speaker 1: virginity in this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and

13
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 1: Samantha and welcome to stephone Never Told You a production

14
00:00:52,320 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio, and welcome.

15
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,400
Speaker 3: Back to Part two of the Myths of Virginity and Purity.

16
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,399
Speaker 3: And here we're actually going to be speaking a lot

17
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,199
Speaker 3: more to purity and purity culture of what it looks

18
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 3: like today. But first, just a trigger warning. We're not

19
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,119
Speaker 3: really talking in depth about anything really sexual or any

20
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,360
Speaker 3: of that. We're just really talking more of analogies and

21
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 3: present culture and idea of abstinence. But for those who

22
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 3: have been raised in maybe Southern Baptist cultures or Western

23
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 3: Christian cultures, this may be too much for you, and

24
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 3: that's fine, So just go ahead and put that here

25
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,040
Speaker 3: at the topics. We're going to dive deep into that

26
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 3: the American idea of purity, and sometimes I could be traumatic,

27
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 3: especially if you've had a falling out with religion, this

28
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 3: might be a little more traumatic. So FYI, right, So Annie,

29
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 3: I have to ask, and I already know this answer,

30
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,559
Speaker 3: but I actually I don't know if I know this answer.

31
00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 3: Because you said you were pretty you grew up in

32
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 3: a religious town. Did you ever get involved in any

33
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 3: type of Christian organizations in school when you were in Delanago,

34
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 3: which is a small town in Georgia.

35
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't get involved in school. Funnily enough, I

36
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: once like really embarrassed myself. I was in seventh grade

37
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 1: and this popular girl asked me in a very like

38
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: in a clear way, that there's only one right answer,

39
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 1: and she said, are you a Christian?

40
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what that meant?

41
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 1: Even though I did go to church, I didn't know.

42
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,239
Speaker 1: But I went through a period where I was really religious,

43
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,760
Speaker 1: but in general I wasn't.

44
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 2: That was like one hardcore year of my life.

45
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,720
Speaker 1: I thought it was cool to be religious, so I

46
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: would go with my friends.

47
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,239
Speaker 2: Usually over the summer.

48
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,160
Speaker 1: I would do like, you know, Bible vacation camp with them,

49
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,160
Speaker 1: with their churches. I would do things like that, but

50
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: I always felt like the friend who can't be saved

51
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,519
Speaker 1: or something to a friend who's like not enlightened enough

52
00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 1: to realize that she's gonna go straight down.

53
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,639
Speaker 3: Oh God, Okay, so you would have been that friend

54
00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 3: that I would have been trying to convert in high school.

55
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:11,800
Speaker 4: I guess.

56
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 1: So, I mean by high school, yeah, I was already

57
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,760
Speaker 1: like nope, but not religious. But yeah, this was middle

58
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 1: school where I was interested right in religion, but I

59
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 1: just never, I don't know, it didn't really take off

60
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 1: with me again.

61
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is interesting because in my school, the popular

62
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 3: kids were the first Baptist church kids and they were

63
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:43,360
Speaker 3: the president of all the SCA. So the Christians athlete clubs,

64
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 3: you were a part of that. You came in early

65
00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 3: mornings to do the different Christian clubs to be a

66
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 3: part of it. You weren't cool unless you went to

67
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 3: church events, and I couldn't afford it until way later.

68
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 3: So I was like tenth eleventh grade before I could

69
00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,520
Speaker 3: go to any of those things. But of course you

70
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 3: also know that tales that couples came out of these

71
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 3: little Christian camps as well. I was a diehard. When

72
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 3: it comes to anything emotional spiritual, I get caught up

73
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 3: in it. I love the beauty of that, of being

74
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 3: swept into a moment, feeling that energy, and I got

75
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 3: caught all up in that. And it is And when

76
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 3: it comes to religion and sex, we know the lines.

77
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 3: It is very defined. And though value of virginity is international,

78
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,679
Speaker 3: We've talked about this, we talked about this previously, is historical,

79
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 3: it's international. When it comes to Western Christian ideology, specifically

80
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 3: in the US, the ideology of purity has a whole

81
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 3: new spend and a lot more money to it. So

82
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,080
Speaker 3: we did want to talk about that in this episode.

83
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 3: And yes, again we know it's very Americanized in this

84
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 3: but it's such a fascinating subject to me that if

85
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 3: I were not in the middle of it and it

86
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 3: did not grow up in it, I would be blown away.

87
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 3: And as you talk about, when you visited like France,

88
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,839
Speaker 3: people were like, what is wrong with you?

89
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a real eye opener for me because

90
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how it came up, but the host family,

91
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 1: I was living with. There was a woman a little

92
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,720
Speaker 1: bit older than me at the time, so we were

93
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 1: both like, you know, eighteen nineteen, and she was like, oh, yeah,

94
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: my first time was a good I barely remember it,

95
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 1: like it's not a big deal here.

96
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 2: And I was like, what right? Right?

97
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 3: I find it funny because we talked about this earlier,

98
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 3: how you and I when I was doing this research.

99
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,240
Speaker 3: Part of this research, I was looking at the cultural differences,

100
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 3: and again, there's not a lot of cultural differences because

101
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 3: the value of women and autonomy. It's kind of overall like, yeah,

102
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 3: women are valued lest everywhere, let's just be very honest.

103
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,159
Speaker 3: But the idea that outside of the US, most cultures

104
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, white girls are sluts, right, they don't

105
00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 3: they don't care, they are crazy. Like it's it's almost

106
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 3: funny to me to see that level because I don't

107
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 3: think about that. And again, I'm Asian, and to me,

108
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 3: I've been fetishized since my childhood. I've been abused, you know,

109
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 3: in my childhood because a part of that and a

110
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,880
Speaker 3: part of that appeal of young girls and the nastiness

111
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 3: of pedophilia and all that that, I was a part

112
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 3: of that world and so all of that ruined so

113
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 3: much of the concepts to me in general. So because

114
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 3: I've already felt dirty, I already felt like an outsider,

115
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 3: I already felt like the other white girls were the

116
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 3: obvious preference of who I wish I was and what

117
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 3: people prefer in my mind. Of course, we don't. That's

118
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 3: not true at all, but it's kind of funny when

119
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 3: we look at like I think one of the research

120
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,720
Speaker 3: papers talked about how the LATINX women who had grown

121
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 3: up understanding sex was beautiful and they also valued their

122
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 3: virginity and value this morality, but it wasn't about waiting

123
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 3: till marriage. It was just about waiting to find someone

124
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,920
Speaker 3: you cared about and experiencing something beautiful in the story.

125
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 3: And this whole idea of waiting till marriage was so

126
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 3: absurd to them, in that idea of like, so you're

127
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 3: trapping yourself without knowing you're you're going to be happy

128
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 3: like that, that's absurd. Why would you want to do that?

129
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 3: And I kind of laugh, I'm like, yeah, I think

130
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 3: I grew up when I finally realized that, like twenty

131
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 3: two twenty three that I'm like, I don't think I

132
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 3: want to be married. This is not This is not sustainable.

133
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 3: This idea is not sustainable. But I found that interesting

134
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 3: when you look outside that perspective of how different it

135
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 3: really is when it comes to the US and beyond.

136
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 3: So it was kind of like, Okay, let's take this

137
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,360
Speaker 3: deep dive, because it's a hell of a tell. So

138
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 3: purity culture has been around the US for quite some time,

139
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 3: but in the early nineties, conservative evangelists in the US

140
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 3: Protestant groups organized the strategy one person called extreme abstinence.

141
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 3: And this was kind of a reaction to the MTV

142
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 3: Wild and Out kind of era where girls gone Wild

143
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 3: was getting really popular at this point, the beach house

144
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 3: where girls you know, were dancing in bikinis and all

145
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,720
Speaker 3: of the old fashioned American families were like, oh my god,

146
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 3: what's happening to our kids. So the reaction was extreme abstinence.

147
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 2: Oh Lord.

148
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 3: So those who advocated for this would advise girls and

149
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 3: women to be submissive, stay away from leadership roles, and

150
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 3: conform to old ideals of courtship, not being in mixed

151
00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 3: company unless regulated, and making sure they're guarding every part

152
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 3: of their preciousness. And when they speak of courtship, the

153
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 3: practice involves making sure that the interaction between women and

154
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,800
Speaker 3: men were specifically to pursue an intent in marriage under

155
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 3: the explicit supervision and permission of the woman's father. Nowhere

156
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,720
Speaker 3: are we talking about mothers in this, by the way,

157
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 3: And as one article explains, quote, this expectation is that

158
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 3: pure young women will remain under the authority of fathers

159
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 3: until they trade it for the authority of their husbands

160
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 3: and marriages arranged by their father. So they were going

161
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 3: all out and controlling from young to old. So we

162
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 3: got you from childhood all the way up, and we're

163
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,560
Speaker 3: going to control every aspect, including dating, including meeting men

164
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 3: getting married. Of course, I know on spenty they've talked

165
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 3: about marriages and weddings and all of the bad connotations

166
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,920
Speaker 3: to that and all of the nice connotations. But how

167
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 3: that is steeped in patriarchal traditions, and this is kind

168
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 3: of fulfilling and being a part of that as well.

169
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 3: Beyond just the practices of abstinence and submission, the movement

170
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 3: goes another step backwards. Yeah, I said it for young

171
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 3: girls and women, with the expectations that women would be

172
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 3: wholly responsible for not being temptations or stumbling blocks for men.

173
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 3: That women must be responsible by doing everything in their

174
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 3: power in regard to the way they talk, dress, or

175
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 3: act in a way that would not evoke sexual desire

176
00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 3: from a man, because obviously men can't control themselves duh

177
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,720
Speaker 3: when it comes to sex everything else. I can control

178
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 3: our bodies, yeah, but they can't control their own bodies.

179
00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 3: And if you've ever been a part of Sunday School,

180
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 3: we all learned of how Eve is the mother of

181
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 3: temptation and she is the one that caused Adam to

182
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,319
Speaker 3: send So of course that's going to affect all of

183
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 3: creation and humanity, right right, Yeah, And I you.

184
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 1: Know, we are speaking in a lot of like generalizations

185
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,920
Speaker 1: and these because that's just the research that we have

186
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: or the information that we have. But I remember the

187
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 1: first time I went to the Vatican, and I it

188
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 1: was summer, and I was in shorts and a tank

189
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 1: chop and I tried to go in one of the

190
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 1: churches and these like old men came running at me,

191
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 1: screaming at me and like shoot me out, and they

192
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 1: were they had like this thing they would cover you

193
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 1: with to go in. And you know, I'm not trying

194
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,680
Speaker 1: to disrespect anybody's believe our cultures but it was just

195
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: a moment of like, holy hell, I can't even I

196
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: was wearing shorts that like right naked or something, right,

197
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,600
Speaker 1: but yeah, feeling that shame like immediately just it drew

198
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 1: so much attention to me. It was so embarrassing, right,

199
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: oh god.

200
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:28,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

201
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 1: So this new strategy and not only pushed a powerful

202
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,719
Speaker 1: narrative and movement, but yeah, it brought in a lot

203
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,839
Speaker 1: of money. Whether it was new books and study guides

204
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,680
Speaker 1: for church youth groups all over the country, retreats, or

205
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 1: new programs. There was money spent to push this narrative,

206
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,600
Speaker 1: including large amounts of grants sent to schools and organizations

207
00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,319
Speaker 1: that taught abstinence only programs. My school was one of those.

208
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if they got any money, but abstinence

209
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,320
Speaker 1: only was our education.

210
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 3: So yeah they would because automatically that was the only qualifier.

211
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 3: If you're willing to not take comprehensive sex said and

212
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 3: do absence only, you get this federal grant at that

213
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 3: point time.

214
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,559
Speaker 2: Wow wow wow.

215
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 1: And out of that with the mega push for mega

216
00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 1: churches and the Southern Baptist Convention, we have programs like

217
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,640
Speaker 1: True Love Weights.

218
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 3: Did you have this program?

219
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 1: We might have I don't remember it, but I mean

220
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 1: it sounds familiar, sounds like something.

221
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,840
Speaker 3: I heard about clearly and vividly. See the signs it

222
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 3: with a giant banner. We had a whole table set

223
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 3: in the cafeteria during lunch that kids could go over

224
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 3: and sign the cars. You got a sticker, you got

225
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 3: a pen, you got a little swag, and then you

226
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 3: walked away. It was purple and white and pink and

227
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,680
Speaker 3: it was super cute and True Love Weights yay. And

228
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 3: then we had a huge conference about it, an assembly

229
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 3: for it.

230
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 1: Well, well, I do think we're not talking about this

231
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,160
Speaker 1: this much in this one. We didn't talk about too

232
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 1: much in the other one. But I do think there's

233
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,080
Speaker 1: been kind of a push back of basically what I'm saying,

234
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 1: and we put too much pressure on virginity one way

235
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 1: or the other. Because in my school, that would have

236
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: been a very uncool thing to do, like you would

237
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 1: have been made from and that, like that's not cool either.

238
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 1: But you know, I do think we've also got that

239
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,080
Speaker 1: aspect of yeah, once you reach a certain age in

240
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 1: your virgin wipe your hands with that person, which is

241
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 1: also ridiculous, right, But okay, True Love Weights is a

242
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: campaign created in nineteen ninety three, which was an absinent

243
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,560
Speaker 1: only youth program that used different tactics for young teams

244
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,679
Speaker 1: to commit to abstaining from sex and waiting for love.

245
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 1: They use conferences, concerts, school campaigns that registered kids to

246
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 1: sign cards with with a vow of chastity. Purity balls

247
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: began in the nineties as well, a bit different. Instead

248
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,000
Speaker 1: of just a vow written on a card promising to

249
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 1: yourself and God, it was a father daughter dance that

250
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,959
Speaker 1: allowed an opportunity for the daughter and father to exchange

251
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,079
Speaker 1: vows of chastity and protection to each other, the daughter

252
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 1: vowing to her father to remain pure until her marriage

253
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,560
Speaker 1: and a father vowing to somehow protecting their daughter's purity

254
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: as well.

255
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 2: Many of the.

256
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 1: Events involved in exchange of purity rings. A lot of

257
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: these events were actually federally funded and not surprisingly a

258
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 1: pretty big hit in the Christian schools, including Christian homeschool

259
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: movements and a lot of modern relevant churches and affiliated

260
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: Christian programs.

261
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 3: Right I found these fascinating. I was not a part

262
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 3: of this. Again, my family they would talk about it

263
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 3: and would hope for the best, but let you be

264
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 3: kind of understand, I think they understood that you can't

265
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 3: make a kid do something that's not possible, forbid something,

266
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,800
Speaker 3: why why would you do that? And there was there

267
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 3: was a decent amount of conversation and trust when it

268
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 3: came to that type of conversation. I will say because

269
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 3: of this in my circle, which it was not necessarily

270
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 3: uncool to be a virgin, that was not a thing.

271
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 3: It was weirder to see people have sex. And I

272
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 3: wasn't shocked for it because I was in like, but

273
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 3: but but but but when it came down to what

274
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 3: happened instead, kind of in that same idea of waiting

275
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 3: until marriage, marriage ended up being at nineteen years old,

276
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,400
Speaker 3: and now chuckle, people are divorced, and that included my

277
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 3: family members. They're trying to save themselves of a marriage.

278
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 3: They're trying to wait, do the right thing. And then

279
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 3: oh no, I rushed into this because of LUs rather

280
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 3: than love, which is easy to confuse when we're confused

281
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 3: about what love and lust does in general.

282
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when you're young.

283
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, these purity balls were such a weird

284
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 3: concept to me. It sounded nice because of course, you

285
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 3: want to be with your dad and hanging out and

286
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,160
Speaker 3: kind of reminiscent of the father daughter dance at a wedding,

287
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 3: which also has a lot to do with the patriarchal

288
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 3: traditions as well, and handing over the daughter. All of

289
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,280
Speaker 3: these things, and the fact that this began to early.

290
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 3: So some of the people who some of the kids

291
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 3: who's attended, some of the girls were six years old,

292
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 3: So it started as six years old. Wow. Yeah, I

293
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 3: know a lot of people say sixteen, but it actually

294
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 3: started as six. And so this kind of level was

295
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 3: this automatic like instillment of your mind and if you

296
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 3: do this, you're going to disappoint me, which is kind

297
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 3: of the majority of sitcoms and or TV shows that

298
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 3: I've seen is the narrative of disappointing the father because

299
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 3: they had sex, oh no, and ruining their relationship because

300
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 3: they somehow broke a trust, which is sad.

301
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so much of what we're talking about,

302
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: all of it that's very heteronormative. I know we said it,

303
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 1: yes and the last one, but yeah, also here very heteronormative. Vagina,

304
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 1: penis sex we're talking about, but almost everything we're talking about.

305
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 1: I'm struck and I shouldn't be by how it's all

306
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,200
Speaker 1: about men. Right, Like, even if we're talking about women

307
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 1: and why you know, women doing these things, it's still

308
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 1: like the men first doing it.

309
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 3: So you never signed those cards?

310
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: No, okay, And I don't remember that being a thing.

311
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,479
Speaker 1: Like I said, in my school, it was kind of

312
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 1: a tightrope and it was hard to win.

313
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 2: But that would have been very uncool.

314
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,160
Speaker 1: There were certain there was a group of like really

315
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 1: Christian kids and yeah, my best friend who is her

316
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,760
Speaker 1: parents were really Catholic. I got a lot of like

317
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 1: hearing from her about yet no living together before marriage

318
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: and a sex before marriage. She always said try it, free,

319
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: buy it. But yeah, in my.

320
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:53,199
Speaker 2: Group, we didn't really do that.

321
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 3: I know.

322
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 1: I've told the story before that a niece of mine

323
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: I got contacted she was eight by her mother, and

324
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,360
Speaker 1: her mother wanted me to be at this chastity ceremony

325
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,399
Speaker 1: and I refused.

326
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 2: To go, and I told her why.

327
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: I was like, look, I want to be supportive of

328
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 1: things that these are my problems with it.

329
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 2: Never heard from her again.

330
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,680
Speaker 3: How old was the girl and they had this ceremony.

331
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 2: I think she was eight. She was pain so wow.

332
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so were they having her in like a white

333
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 3: dress and all of that, Yes, yeah, so it was

334
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 3: a mock wedding with her father. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

335
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 3: There's so many things to uncover with that. Again, it's

336
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 3: kind of this whole, this whole conversation, as you were

337
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 3: saying before, it's like, yeah, it's very heteronormative, but it

338
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 3: is also the understanding of how this gendered roles and

339
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 3: gender biases are placed and staunchly looked down on if

340
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 3: you try to disrupt it as well, which is why

341
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 3: they're not considered because automatically you're dismissed. As we talked

342
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 3: about in the last episode when marginalized women were automatically

343
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 3: dismissed of being pure point blank because you're not. It's

344
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 3: that same concept here that if you're not heterosexual and

345
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 3: you're not cis gender, that means your art automatically dismissed

346
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 3: as impure, so therefore you're not part of this narrative. Again,

347
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,479
Speaker 3: very damaging in so many ways because it neglects so

348
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 3: much and obviously it's hurtful, dismissive, and just fairly the

349
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 3: fact to other that because you're not in this majority,

350
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 3: which is kind a majority if you really think on it,

351
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 3: but in their mind it is because it's supposed to

352
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 3: be the norm quote unquote, and I'm saying this very

353
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 3: very like sarcastically, but this is the assumption. But yeah,

354
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 3: this is that very big conversation of like, we are

355
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 3: instilling gender biases that are damaging in this type of practice.

356
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 3: But it's also yeah, it is absolutely a key point

357
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 3: for a lot of the religious right. This is what

358
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: they want. This is what they're doing, is to bring

359
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 3: this And we don't talk about this in this episode,

360
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 3: but actually, and every I read through, of course it

361
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 3: hasn't evolved. I was just tired. I think by we

362
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 3: were just tired by the end of this. We're like, oh,

363
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 3: there's so much that we were just like, okay, we can't

364
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 3: get into this too. But yes, this is very political.

365
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,399
Speaker 3: This is a very big political stance. A lot of

366
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 3: these movements are political about taking autonomy away from women

367
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 3: in general. And it begins at a young age when

368
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 3: it comes to sexual identity, because you must find shame

369
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: and shame factors into what you're allowed to do, which

370
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to do what you're seeing as and again,

371
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 3: if it's not based for procreation, then therefore it's already

372
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 3: sin to begin with, right right. So it's this whole

373
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 3: level and I remember growing up reading books like Passion

374
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: and Purity, which I'm sure you I read a lot

375
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 3: of Christian literature in high school. And I want to

376
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 3: shout out to our friend who wrote to us who

377
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 3: live in rural Georgia saying, I hear you submit them.

378
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 3: I'm right with you with the religion. Hi, Yeah, this

379
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 3: is exactly like I was inundated and I put myself there.

380
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 3: But it wasn't my parents because they didn't read this stuff.

381
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 3: It was me that I got caught up in that

382
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,360
Speaker 3: because I needed to fill whole. And I'm gonna kind

383
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 3: of come back to my own little editorial bit I

384
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 3: guess in that because I got caught up in this,

385
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 3: I really wanted to find value in myself again, and

386
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 3: this felt like a way I could. So I took

387
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 3: that whole thing of I don't know if you told

388
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 3: you about this book. I kissed dating Goodbye, which turns

389
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 3: out the dude who wrote this book made a lot

390
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 3: of money finally found his wife. Wrote about that and

391
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: how about how he saved himself from marriage and purity

392
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 3: and courtship again. We talked about it in the first episode.

393
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 3: If you want to know what we're talking about, but courtship,

394
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 3: all of these things, and then coming into like I

395
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 3: think present day, he was like, I was wrong, never mind,

396
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 3: don't do that, and essentially disabout that. And there's been

397
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 3: several actually several more current contemporary Christian people who are

398
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 3: on that same line, not necessarily saying you should have sex,

399
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: but like, this is not the right idea, this is

400
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 3: not the right way, this is too patriarchal, this is

401
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 3: this is damaging to girls. And as in fact, the

402
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 3: woman that I passion and purity, she wrote the story

403
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: about finding her husband, finding her love. Turns out he dies.

404
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 3: I think she marries three more times since they all

405
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 3: die on her, which is sad, but somehow finding love

406
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 3: all the time you're like, well, congratulations, I guess. And

407
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: this whole idea of concept of like having purity and

408
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 3: growing together and there are missionaries together and saving the

409
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: world together. And then he goes off and gets killed,

410
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 3: and so she finds a new husband but really idealizes

411
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 3: her first husband. It was really odd went to a

412
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 3: conference that I didn't attend it, but people who were

413
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 3: so excited to see her, so excited to hear her

414
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 3: words because she's such a you know, godly woman, as

415
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 3: they would say. And then she comes about talking about how, hey, girls,

416
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 3: if you're fat, you're displeasing your husband. If you're not

417
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 3: cooking for your husband, then you're not doing it, like

418
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 3: all of these things, giving a list of what you're

419
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 3: doing wrong. And like I remember, one friend of mine

420
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 3: at that time came home heartbroken because she had already

421
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: struggled with the fact that she felt like she was overweight,

422
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: which wasn't true. She felt like because she was I

423
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: think she was mid thirties, late late twenties, that because

424
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 3: she hadn't found a husband, she was failing and all

425
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: she wanted to do was have a child and be

426
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 3: a wife because that's what she was told her value was.

427
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: And because this woman was blaming her for her physical state,

428
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: not doing being submissive enough, not praying enough, she truly

429
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 3: felt that and it was so heartbroken. I think she

430
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: also understood this is wrong, but still put that into herself,

431
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 3: like that, yeah, you're right, it's my fast. And I

432
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 3: felt that in religion being a leadership of I'm not

433
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: faithful enough, that I'm not submissive enough, I'm not all

434
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: and it's such a that guilt. When I finally was

435
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: like this is bullsh was such a release. I just

436
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: can't talk about it enough. But this plays all into this,

437
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: this purity aspect, which again the whole idea of virginity

438
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: was always about controlling women and subjugating women to men.

439
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: As it says of the meaning at the very base

440
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 3: of the word, that's what the problem is. It's not

441
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 3: the problem that you don't have sex. If you don't

442
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 3: want to have sex, that's perfect, that's normal, that's okay, Hey,

443
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 3: that should be your choice. And just as you said,

444
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: people pushing you in like this whole narrative of trying

445
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: to peer pressure someone into having sex. That's so absurd too,

446
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 3: and that is just as dangerous.

447
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely.

448
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: As us all we're talking about for sure. But it

449
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: is this whole narrative controlling it and why is it

450
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 3: being pushed that's the biggest thing. And honestly, as I

451
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: was talking about with my own self, feeling like even

452
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 3: though it was not my fault, it was nothing to

453
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: do with me, this dirtiness of this, and yeah it is.

454
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: It's part of that instilling that it's dirtiness for girls

455
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: if they have sex. And as I was talking about earlier,

456
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 3: and it really always rubbed me the wrong way, but

457
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: it made sense because I love a good analogy about

458
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 3: the lollipop. You know. So if you read Jessica Valenti's

459
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 3: book The Purity Myth, she actually talks about going to

460
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 3: a conference. Actually this dude says, your body is a

461
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: rapped lollipop. When you have sex with a man, he

462
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: had rapped your lollipop and sex on it. It may

463
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 3: feel great at the time, but unfortunately, when he's done

464
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: with you, all you have left for your next partner

465
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 3: is a poorly rapped saliva field sucker. Oh yeah, so

466
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 3: that's the analogy that was being passed around, and I

467
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 3: heard that, like, you know, you take a look, and

468
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: again I think I said it in the first episode

469
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 3: about the analogy of this youth. Pastor brought out a

470
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: candy bar, passed it around and by the time he

471
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 3: got to a certain person that they're like, I don't

472
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 3: want this, and like, see, that's exactly what we're talking

473
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: about when he talks about sex. When you go around

474
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 3: with so many partners, who's gonna want you? It is

475
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 3: absolutely to do. And it didn't have much to do

476
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: with the guy of course typically, yes, it was also

477
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 3: supposed to be for men as well, and that's why

478
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: the Dude who Did I Kissed Dating Goodbye was so

479
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: popular because it was written by a man about his

480
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 3: virginity and finally we could see this, but it had

481
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: the same idea of you're being shared, you're being dirty. Yeah,

482
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: there was also this whole conversation about chewing gum, essentially

483
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: unwrapping her and chewing her up. That's who has left

484
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: over is leftover chewing gum. And if you've been doing

485
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 3: any church or youth group, I think this all sounds

486
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: probably very familiar because you know, analogies and metaphors make

487
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: up about fifty percent of all the sermons and lessons

488
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 3: pre when it comes to stuff like this, especially if

489
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 3: they're like more of a relevant contemporary church, you definitely

490
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: hear that. I mean, that's kind of what the Bible was,

491
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: parables upon parables and parables. But the purity movement was

492
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: no different. And again, yeah, there's so many analogies alluding

493
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: to the idea that people who have sex are dirty

494
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: and used up, and as in fact, it's so steeped

495
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: into our idea, it's not just there it's always been

496
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 3: around sex. And the city did the whole thing once

497
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 3: again we converse in the city they did. They talked

498
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: about the fact that again Charlotte, if she was too sexual,

499
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: she was the whore and he saw her as a madonna,

500
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: so he couldn't have sex with her because she was

501
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: too pure type of thing. But then at the same

502
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: time talking about how many partners they've had and feeling

503
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 3: dirty and oh my god. Yeah, and like it's and

504
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: it's definitely the slut versus you know. The episode of

505
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: the thing is called am I a slut? But it's

506
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 3: such an idea that is inundated in women that that's

507
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 3: what it is. We're being used up, which is such

508
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: a weird conversation to have anyway, and it is a

509
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 3: part of this whole level of purity. Again obviously dirty.

510
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: If you're not pure, you're dirty. What else are you?

511
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: But it is so heavily laid that it becomes really

512
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: dangerous and problematic.

513
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean we've all heard the the jokes about,

514
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: you know, the village bicycle, and that kind of puts

515
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: I guess that's another avenue where we see this value

516
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: that we place on virginity and purity because essentially what

517
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: you're saying, there's like two men.

518
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: She's easy to get.

519
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: Anyone can get her, like she should be ashamed, she's dirty,

520
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: and you want as a man to get someone that

521
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: other men could get, right, and that somehow is great

522
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 1: for your ego. And yeah, you don't have to worry

523
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: that maybe she's gotten another child with another.

524
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: Man somewhere once again.

525
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's unsurprised to see that these types of

526
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: ideas and methods and myths can be damaging. And we

527
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: wanted to look a bit into what could be some

528
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: of the results of all this. And since Samantha, you

529
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: brought up sex in the city, I shall bring up

530
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: something I bring up all the time, horror movies. There's

531
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: a horror movie called The Last Extorcism, which has its situes,

532
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: but at the heart of it, it's a really religious

533
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: girl who well it's complicated because there's a twist, but

534
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: she is traumatized because she had sex before marriage and

535
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: like goes into demon possession as an alternative to I

536
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: would rather people think that than think that I've had

537
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: set wow before.

538
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she at the end when like.

539
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: The extracism is you know, it's coming to a head.

540
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: She just screams out, I'm not in u set because

541
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: she has sex. But then also demons happened.

542
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: So the demons happened.

543
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: That's fair, yes, yes, But in the real world when

544
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: we are talking about problems of all this, well we've

545
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: been talking about them, but here's some more. There's fetishism

546
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: of virginity. It's not hard to see that it has

547
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: become a whole thing. Yeah, we've seen it in badly

548
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: made movies that reference the idea of taking someone's virginity,

549
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: or porn videos which promote the viewing of a young

550
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: girl losing her virginity, or even seeing it as a

551
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: fear tactic of sex trafficking and young girls. There becomes

552
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: a dangerous line of how girls are viewed as literal commodities,

553
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: are trophies to be conquered, that is tied to the

554
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: overall mythical importance of trying to keep one's morality.

555
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: Taken is a prime example of that movie, that whole thing.

556
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: I never saw that documentary film my dad told me

557
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: about Are Taken.

558
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: No, okay, uh, yeah, it's absolutely the whole thing. Again,

559
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: Because we talked about with bridget about the fact that

560
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: you know, trafficking girls. But at the end, his daughter

561
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: is a prize because she's a virgin, a white virgin,

562
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: and she's bid on and given all the fancy treatment,

563
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: and of course she saved. Her virginity is saved by

564
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 3: her father, y'all. Her virginity saved by her father. There.

565
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: That is wow, that's the thing you were talking about.

566
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: Uh huh. And we could go on to one step

567
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: further about this fetishism which ties to the pickup artist

568
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: believes in tactics that women are taught to fight men,

569
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: so that means a man has to push harder and

570
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 3: try harder because it's all a rude So this is

571
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: something that they's just taught. This is something that's ingraded

572
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: into them, but they don't really want it, and they

573
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: want men to pursue women to the point of harassment

574
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: and to the point that they can't say no obviously,

575
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 3: And this is kind of that one last thing. This

576
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 3: is kind of more of what you're talking about about

577
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 3: the fact that women can choose not to have sex.

578
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: It's just either way, consent is taken away. Saying that

579
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, you don't want to say no, you don't

580
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: want to say yeah, but you don't want to say

581
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: no either. It's this whole level and that it's a

582
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: game that we're being taught because again, we have no autonomy.

583
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: There's another problem with this whole thing. Again, Yes, there's

584
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: been so many problems that I've been saying. I've been

585
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 3: going off on early sexualization of young girls. And it's

586
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: that same narrative we've seen repeatedly throughout society. Whether we're

587
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: talking about how a girl dresses so a school dress

588
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 3: code or what they're being told to protect or how

589
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: to act, it begins to sexualize them. They don't even

590
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: think they're coming on with a cute dress. They want

591
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: to match their mom in a cute way. They want

592
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: to wear heels, and it's automatically like, how dare you

593
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: dress a young girl like that? That is sexualizing that

594
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: They're not doing it, you're doing it. Why are you

595
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: doing this? But this is kind of that whole propagation

596
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: of yeah, this is what you're doing and it's your fault,

597
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: and I see her like this because of you, and

598
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: it's part of this conversation. Again, it teaches girls things

599
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: like purity balls, which for some occur again in their

600
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: adolescence that their bodies are a weapon of sin, so

601
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: it is something that can be used against them or

602
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: they have to protect as if it's like a weapon.

603
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: And instead of allowing a girl to be a girl,

604
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: they're just based on whether not they're tempting men. And

605
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: we talked about that in our book club for the

606
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 3: House on Manga Street is kind of that conversation on

607
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: whether they're tempting men just because they're there, because they

608
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: wore heels, that hole that kind of reminds me of

609
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 3: that they just thought it was pretty. They just liked it.

610
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: They saw their parents and then they thought it was cute,

611
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: and it became a weapon and a temptation for a man,

612
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: and it scared them because they realized what they were

613
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: being seen as, even though they didn't do this for them.

614
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: And in this very way, the balls are teaching them

615
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: to fear their own bodies. Yeah, and not just parity balls,

616
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: but this purity movement and ideas are teaching kids at

617
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: a young age about their bodies and how they're tempting

618
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: and how they need to be afraid of themselves. And

619
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 3: we talked about it when we talked about the Lolita

620
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: Podcast with Jamie and the whole Lolita effect which is

621
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: out there and out and about, which allows for many

622
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: to blame a young girl for their own impure thoughts

623
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: or for some older women's self hatred. Like this level

624
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: of where we become so aware of ourselves and fearful

625
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: of what our bodies are doing. It's just it's so heartbreaking.

626
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: I hate it. I hate it so much. And this

627
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 3: also makes naive young girls gatekeepers of sex, as in fact,

628
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: Jessica Valenti, she talks about her experience when she first

629
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: has sex and what she thought of versus and then

630
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: she contacted her partner at the time, her boyfriend from

631
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: the time, and asked him what he thought for her book,

632
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: and he kind of was He literally just said, you know,

633
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: but you had more control than I did because you're

634
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: a girl. You know, girl. Boys can't control this. And

635
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: because of these misconceived ideas of who is more sexual,

636
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: girls are seeing being able to be in more control.

637
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: So therefore they have all the control of whether they

638
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: say so yes having sex or not having sex, or

639
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 3: whether or not Who's to blame and who's the shame

640
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: mm hmm when this happens. So it's kind of that

641
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 3: whole level of like, wow, y'all are putting a lot

642
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: on young girls. How do they even? How did we function?

643
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

644
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: No, for sure, Like it's it's setting you up as

645
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: a young girl to be ready to blame yourself if

646
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: any like sexual assault happens to you, and to fear

647
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 1: your body. Your body is to blame you did something wrong.

648
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: You have to question that was I sending any wrong

649
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: signals anything like that?

650
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: It's just from so young teaching them right.

651
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: And then something we've kind of discussed throughout is the

652
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: misconception of consent for women when looking at the purity culture.

653
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: The concept is that sex is a commodity and has

654
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: some type of moral value, but is something to be

655
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: owned and taken, which can send a lot of mixed

656
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: messages of what consent looks like Biblically. We have examples

657
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: of women who were raped and not being seen as

658
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: a victim, but seen as soiled and ruined, and if

659
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: they are not married to their perpetrator, their worth and

660
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: value has been diminished and oftentimes cast aside and no

661
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: longer part of society and blamed for letting their most

662
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: valuable asset be taken.

663
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: I feel like we see that in movies all the time.

664
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: Where it's like the army is invading, I'm gonna rape

665
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: your wife over and over, and it's meant to be

666
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: like now she's ruined for you right now, less.

667
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: About the trauma she's going to go through, but more

668
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: about for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.

669
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: Though this has changed somewhat in society, we can see

670
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: the value of women in that same manner when it

671
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 1: comes to roles inside of marriages to day. It wasn't

672
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: until not too long ago when the law recognized here

673
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: in the US that rape canicker in marriage. For those

674
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: who are victims of abuse, who have been taught that

675
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: purity is the most valued part of them, feeling of

676
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: this overwhelming guilt and shame can really overshadow their worse.

677
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it doesn't even if not a question of

678
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 3: oh my god, this has happened to me and it's

679
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: traumatic and I have violated, it's becomes a coquestion of

680
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 3: oh my god, what did I do? I allowed this,

681
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 3: which we kind of talked about before, and consent goes

682
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: out that window. No one understands consent, which is also

683
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 3: that whole level of well, if I tempted him, then

684
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: I owe it to him, because this is my fault.

685
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 3: Was again going back to we are the gatekeepers of

686
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 3: sexuality in general, and therefore we are also the gatekeepers

687
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 3: of whether or not a man is tempted, and that

688
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: means we owe it and that takes away consent. But

689
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: that absolutely takes that away. And this misconception of I

690
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 3: have to give it to you, and if I didn't

691
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: explicitly fight you, yeah, then I was willing. It's such

692
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: a narrative that again, it just perpetuates the rape culture

693
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 3: that we were talking about in that last episode as well.

694
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

695
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: And it also teaches women and girls that any pain

696
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: or abuse that happens to them may be a punishment

697
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: for their pre marital sexual interactions. Right.

698
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 3: And I remember specifically one of my friends who went

699
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 3: through a few miscarriages still born. It was so traumatic

700
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: and I was so painful for her because she just

701
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 3: was so excited and when these things happened to her,

702
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: she came back and told me, it's because I had

703
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 3: sex with so and so before marriage, and I knew it,

704
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: and I knew it, I would think I was pregnant

705
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: then and I'm miscarried then, Like there was no. These

706
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 3: were all assumptions for her, but she was so sure

707
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: that it was her wrongdoing that she suffered in her

708
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: guilt to the point that she pushed everyone away because

709
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: she felt like she was so dirty and unclean because

710
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: she had sex before marriage and this was God's punishment

711
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: to her, and which I kind of was just like,

712
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: what is happening? This is no, that's not that's not

713
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 3: how this works. Because also that that conversation for those

714
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: there's so many who have in their mind done it

715
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: the right way that go through the same things. It's

716
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 3: such a sad punishment for a needless, needless made up

717
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 3: social construct that it truly broke my heart. And I

718
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 3: was just like, I kind it flored me. To be honest,

719
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know what to say to

720
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: this other than no, it's not. But you can't fight

721
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: someone's religious you know what I mean, believe in themselves.

722
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 3: You really can't, even though I'm like, what it was

723
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: the whole thing. Another problematic thing with the purity culture

724
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: is the romanticism and the exaggeration of having sex. The

725
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 3: expectation of sex grows wildly out of proportion when we

726
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 3: really dream up this. The night of the wedding thing,

727
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: and I know, I think it's finally come to the

728
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: point that everybody's like, hey, don't get too excited, right,

729
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: But it's this whole like kind of a similar idea

730
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 3: of getting your periods or you've become a woman, you're

731
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 3: a whole new changed a woman, and you look different,

732
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 3: you walk differently. That's not true. Sure, I'm in pain,

733
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: I'm not even more pain, and I'm very confused with

734
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: what's happening with my body. But that's not it's not

735
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 3: a romanticized thing. And it's just such a misconception of

736
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 3: what sex is. And and yes, having a connection and

737
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: an emotional intimacy is a beautiful thing. And if you

738
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 3: you're using the narrative of saving yourself for the one,

739
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: you know, do what you need to. If that's something

740
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 3: that you believe and that's what you treasure, and it

741
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: works out, it's gonna be it's gorgeous. I'm so glad.

742
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: I am so glad. But it also brings on the

743
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: idea that sex will be always be beautiful and magical

744
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 3: and it's gonna be perfect. When it's misleading, and it

745
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: can be severely disappointing when everything goes awry, and I've

746
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: heard many tales of people's honeymoons being ruined because they

747
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 3: didn't know what was going to happen, to the point

748
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 3: that I even heard one person that it was so

749
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: painful that she cry and they had to stop.

750
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that, I mean, that is a similar conversation

751
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: to what we were talking about with the orgasms, where

752
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: we've made it into this huge, huge thing and it

753
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: really shouldn't be, Like, if you want it to be

754
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: special and all that, that's like, that's great, but yeah,

755
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: I remember once I think it was you know, college,

756
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: and me and my like really close group of women

757
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: female friends we talked about like so sex over rated,

758
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: were like yeah, we all kind of like yeah, yeah.

759
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

760
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 3: And that's kind of where that lie comes in, that

761
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: women can't orgasm or or shouldn't enjoy sex. It's not

762
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 3: supposed to be for use for us, you know that

763
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 3: men's perspective, And again, yeah, that type of lie and

764
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: that kind of misconception is really dangerous too, and really sad.

765
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: It's so sad when it can be a beautiful thing,

766
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 3: which also, yes, leads to a complete misunderstanding of sex

767
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: in general. The terms technical vision and partial version are

768
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: often floated around because the lack of sex has education

769
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 3: when it's abstinence only that we kind of ignore everything,

770
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: so everything's out of bounds, but nothing is talked about.

771
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 3: So of course girls are very confused about oral sex

772
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 3: and who can do what, and then it becoming dirty

773
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 3: and what becomes dirty and what becomes okay, what becomes taboo,

774
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: what's sinful beyond just having premeneral sex, And no one

775
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: talks about the ends and outs of sexual contact or

776
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: interaction at all and paints everything as immortal. Like I said,

777
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 3: it's just like all taboo and all hush hush, And

778
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 3: so therefore there's a lot of things that you don't understand, right,

779
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 3: which is not always bad, but at the same time,

780
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 3: to be like to and be taken advantage of happens

781
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: a lot, a lot, which allows for misleading information such

782
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: as being able to get pregnant in hot tubs that

783
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 3: float around I believe different minute, or that you can

784
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 3: stop pregnancies by drinking bleach, which was yeah, which actually done. Apparently,

785
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 3: there was a couple of cases in Florida where teenagers

786
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: got sick and you're like, oh no, don't do that

787
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 3: or that again. By defining sex in such a heteronormative

788
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: manner ignores the queer community completely again and others them

789
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 3: and shames them in general and brings even more confusion,

790
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: and so more disinformation comes out, and it just becomes

791
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 3: a whole festival of disinformation.

792
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember, like you see that in instances

793
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when there was that story

794
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: that made headlines that a lot of young girls were

795
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: being pressured into oral sex because they were being told

796
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: it's not sex, so we can't have it, and then

797
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: you won't be dirty, and you won't you know, lost

798
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: your virginity and then you know, those those can be

799
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 1: confusing lines across, but they were basically, yeah, being pressured

800
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: into something based on this purity thing and based on

801
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: the boys wanted to have some type of sex, right,

802
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: some type of sexual contact.

803
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: Right.

804
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: It's everything but right, But yeah, it is and it

805
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: is sad because you could the conversation is that you

806
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: can also get sdis it this way, and people are

807
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: not talking about it, people are not understanding it's it's

808
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 3: seriously dangerous on a health level when you like again

809
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 3: spread this of information as well as the fact things like,

810
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 3: you know, accidental pregnancies are happening because they're not talking

811
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 3: about how they can get pregnant or how it actually

812
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: works and what they need to do. And again, if

813
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 3: they're not talking about it at all, you're not going

814
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 3: to be prepared. So having a condom is not going

815
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: to be a thing. Knowing how to use a condom

816
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: is not going to be a thing, right, which is

817
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: all pretty sad.

818
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: It is, it is.

819
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 2: Indeed. Yeah, I believe I've even seen.

820
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: God, I'm trying, I can't remember it exactly, but I

821
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 1: remember there was this idea that women could like stop

822
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: sperm like by clinching. Oh yeah, so it wouldn't go

823
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: in far enough too.

824
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 3: And there's also lunar cycles that people base it on.

825
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yep. I have a friend who did that

826
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: on her honeymoon. They only had sex the one time triplets.

827
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a friend of a friend kept blowing that

828
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 3: and was surprised when he has a sex baby.

829
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: She's the weak.

830
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: So clearly, there are so many other things that we

831
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: could cover.

832
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: We've been talking about.

833
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: Them on and off air, other topics and some we

834
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: could absolutely go more in depths on. Yeah, Yeah, there's

835
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: nothing wrong at all with waiting until you are comfortable

836
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: to have sex. But we can't ignore the trauma and

837
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: overall damage these types of myths can cause.

838
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: Right for myself again, like I've been saying, I think

839
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 3: I've struggled, and you can tell there's a lot of

840
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 3: things that I'm a little upset about, a little angry about,

841
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: because I was inundated in this culture as well. Again

842
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 3: my choice. It was like I pushed myself into this

843
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: because this is what I needed, I think at the time.

844
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: But I now understanding, Wow, I'm having a hard time

845
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: and learning some of these concepts here though I very

846
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: well understand, like this is bad, and then coming back

847
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: to realize this is a strategy that was used politically

848
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 3: to motivate young women to understand, hey, you need to

849
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: be under the authority of men. And yeah, I struggled

850
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: and I still struggle with the idea that sex can

851
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: equate love at all. Again, my own trauma, my own

852
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: ordeal as a child, really had a lot to do

853
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: with it. So abstinence was actually easy for me. I

854
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 3: did not have sex until in my mid twenties, but

855
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 3: for me in high school because I was afraid of

856
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: men and intimacy, partially because of my own ethnicity, was

857
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 3: again being other. I wasn't pure, And to begin with again,

858
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: my childhood experience as an orphan and things I went

859
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: through as an orphan defined me and as something that

860
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 3: was no longer usable or as valuable, and the culture

861
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 3: of purity made me think it was because I was

862
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: already defined that it was too late. And of course

863
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 3: I clung to that faith throughout some of the darkest

864
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: time for me, and it helped. It pulled me out

865
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 3: in that forgiveness and being able to come into But

866
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: there's something else bigger than me, and I think that's

867
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: beautiful and for people who truly understands that, it allows

868
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 3: that to be to make them a better person, wonderful.

869
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 3: But that also meant intimacy or just having a boyfriend

870
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: meant that I was owned, that there was an ownership

871
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: of me, And for me, it was easier to understand

872
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 3: that because that's what I was taught and that's what

873
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: I was understanding, and it felt it made sense because

874
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 3: that's already something that I'd been cultivated to feel like

875
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: I've already been that way. Literally was bought from Korea

876
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: to the US when they bought me, and it went

877
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 3: through a lot of things, and even an I came here,

878
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 3: I would shown my worth as a sexual being and

879
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: being at ten and eleven years old, eight nine, ten,

880
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: So all of those things really did prepare me to

881
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 3: be the perfect vessel under this purity culture because I

882
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 3: wanted to be clean, because of course that type of

883
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 3: trauma teaches you that you're not clean, and I think

884
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: that's part of this misconception why it can be dangerous.

885
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 3: And I've made it out. I had therapy, I still

886
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 3: had any therapy, hunting, medication, I have to do all

887
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 3: the things because it's not going to be cleansed from me. Essentially,

888
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 3: I guess the best way because it's always going to

889
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 3: be a part of my history. But I think that's

890
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 3: part of things, like we have to really recognize it

891
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 3: for what it is and why these myths are dangerous

892
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: and perpetuating it in such a manner, especially when you're

893
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 3: self serving for an agenda. Yeah, why we need to

894
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 3: talk about it and dig a little deeper onto it again.

895
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 3: That book that I was telling you about, the Purity

896
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 3: Myth by Jessica Valinti, she has some really great takes

897
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 3: in and we probably should visit it as a book club,

898
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: even though I'm like, no, I don't know I can

899
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 3: do this anymore. But yeah, I feel like and you

900
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: and I've talked about this before, like that that feeling

901
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: it attaches, and when you start really going down that

902
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: rabbit hole, it feels dark, even though it doesn't have

903
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: to be.

904
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and so much of what we're talking about

905
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: here is political and patriarchal, and we're teaching it from

906
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: such a young age. And I will say, as we

907
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: wrap this up, like it's really nobody's business, right, because

908
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: I know for me when like you be playing never

909
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: by ever and people will be like, have you lost

910
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: your virginity? And I lost it in a very traumatic

911
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: sexual assault, and I would I would literally freeze and

912
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: not know what to do right, And that turned into

913
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: I know I've said before, there were these rumors I

914
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: was like a slut. It was because people thought like

915
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: I got into some bedism stuff, which is not even

916
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: like that's incorrect assumption as well, right, but like that

917
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: I anyway, like so that question can be very traumatic,

918
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: and my my therapist said some people reframe it as

919
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: like a separate issue entirely, but like even the idea

920
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: that this virginity has that much meaning that you're doing that.

921
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: So it is unfortunate and like one of the periods

922
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: of abuse in my life I went through, I didn't

923
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: know what.

924
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: Like dating was.

925
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: I didn't like this guy is telling me he's my boyfriend.

926
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. I guess maybe this is

927
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: how it is, and this is maybe how sex is

928
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: because I didn't have any education.

929
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 2: And I was young.

930
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: So it is really sad because there's all of these

931
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: like things that are coming together to create a very unhealthy,

932
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: dangerous system and society for a lot of us. But

933
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: here we're talking about like young girls and setting them

934
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: up to take the blame for it. Right, So, yeah,

935
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: there is a lot to and pack on the whole.

936
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we came in saying, oh, yeah, this is gonna

937
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 3: be a big one, and then I came in and saying, Okay,

938
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: this might be a two partern and it was.

939
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 2: It was.

940
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: And if there's anything, listeners that you want us to

941
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: unpack in more detail, there.

942
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: Was certainly plenty. Please let us know.

943
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: Our email is Stuffydia Mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

944
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never

945
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: Told You, or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks

946
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: as always start a super producer, Christina, thank you and

947
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You

948
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: A protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

949
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

950
00:50:50,280 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. No