1
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to a live edition of the Bible

2
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: Left Nest Podcast. If I know him, my guest today

3
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: has done it all. He's been a promoter, he's been

4
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 1: an agent, a legendary manager. Please welcome Ed Bignell. Ed Hi,

5
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: thank you, thanks for having me. Okay, just a couple

6
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 1: of days ago, Michael Godynsky pass. What can you tell

7
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,279
Speaker 1: us about Godynsky in Australia. He was like a lot

8
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 1: of people have said he was a one off. I

9
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: mean he actually kind of. He really changed the Australian

10
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: music scene almost singlehandedly, and he was a great character.

11
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: It was a really really funny guy. I made to

12
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 1: spend time with him was great. He was just just hilarious.

13
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: He was a complete music enthusiast, which can't be said

14
00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: of some promoters these days. And he got to live straight.

15
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: And condolences to his family, to his to say, his wife,

16
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: and to everybody else in the Australian music business because

17
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,720
Speaker 1: he uh, he was definitely a one off, but the

18
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: sadly beast for those who did meet him, he was

19
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 1: really definitely a unique They broke the mold after that,

20
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: and he always said, I said, what about spreading throughout

21
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: the world. He said, no, I like being the King

22
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,679
Speaker 1: of Australia. I like being a big fish and a

23
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,040
Speaker 1: small And for those who didn't know, he literally did

24
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 1: it all. You know he had not only started. You

25
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 1: started with a record company, Mushroom Records, at the age

26
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 1: of twenty and ultimately became frontier touring and so much more.

27
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,399
Speaker 1: But ed, you've done so much yourself. But let's look

28
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,759
Speaker 1: at the landscape today. What is the few were an

29
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 1: agent and you're involved in uh growing w M. Endeavor

30
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 1: in the UK. What is the future of the agency

31
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 1: business in a marketplace where there's such consolidation amongst promoters.

32
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: That's a tough one, Thanks very much, Bob. I think

33
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 1: the big agencies, and I'm thinking particularly of William Morrison.

34
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,120
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Endeavor. Let me curate myself and see a A.

35
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: They're kind of too big to fail. They're the sort

36
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: of they're the big banks at the time of the crash,

37
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,400
Speaker 1: and I think that they will keep going, but they

38
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 1: will probably strip some of their activities. Back when I

39
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,040
Speaker 1: was at William Morris, which was William Morris. Back then

40
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: they had all these divisions corporate consulting as one I

41
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 1: remember and video games and all these kind of things,

42
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: and nobody seemed to know what they did, and if

43
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,520
Speaker 1: you if you ask the question, nobody could tell you.

44
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: And there's this, there's been this voracious appetite for gobbling

45
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: up everything. That's a bit like Live Nation actually as well.

46
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,079
Speaker 1: They have this, these tentacles. I always compare them to

47
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 1: that old Steve McQueen film The Blob, and the Blob

48
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,519
Speaker 1: basically gobbled up everything in its path, and these agencies

49
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 1: are a bit like that. But at the same time,

50
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 1: this pandemic has caused people to split off. There was

51
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: a panel earlier today of the new agents and there

52
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 1: were four people on it who have basically left where

53
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 1: they were, including one gentlemen from CIA started their own businesses,

54
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 1: and that's inevitable, that's always happened, I think. But the

55
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,840
Speaker 1: the corporate agency, to me, it didn't work for me

56
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: personally because I found, I suppose, in simple terms, I

57
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: found being an employee after being an employer for thirty

58
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 1: years very difficult. I couldn't adapt to the corporate culture

59
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 1: as it was then, and I couldn't adapt to the

60
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: they I'm going to say this from the perspective of

61
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 1: somebody here in London. They could not leave it alone.

62
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 1: They were constantly micromanaging me in order to get to

63
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: wherever they thought they wanted to get. Um. That's not

64
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,159
Speaker 1: a criticism of anybody, particularly although the management at the

65
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 1: time nearly all of whom left very quickly after Arian

66
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: Patrick came in. They were not I didn't think they

67
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: were particularly competent. Okay, let's be very specific. You mentioned

68
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,480
Speaker 1: the consolidation of companies. Used to be the ten per centers,

69
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,880
Speaker 1: the movie agents and the live appearance agents. They were

70
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 1: the driving force of revenue for these agencies. Now it's sports.

71
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 1: They're involved with these giant funds. One would think as

72
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: a music agent you feel like a zip on the

73
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: end of the rear end of the whole enterprise. Yeah,

74
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,480
Speaker 1: well you do. And that was one of the problems.

75
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: And I think that if you if you come from

76
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 1: the generation I come from, and I think you come from,

77
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying it doesn't happen with younger people

78
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: coming into the game. Now, what inspired me was music.

79
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,120
Speaker 1: That was it. It was just there was nothing more

80
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,280
Speaker 1: than that. I was just completely and totally entranced by music,

81
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 1: and music have pretty much every genre it's it's that's

82
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 1: something that you don't here played in an agency offices,

83
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 1: you don't talk about Um. That's not saying that agents

84
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: don't go out and see bands, you know, five five,

85
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: six nights a week, probably four or five different venues

86
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 1: a night. But but you're you're right. Certainly, when you're

87
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: in the in a management position in a company like that,

88
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,279
Speaker 1: you're you're talking about the elements that you're talking about,

89
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: and what you're doing basically is clambering up through layer

90
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,040
Speaker 1: after later until you get to the person who signs

91
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 1: the check. And under the William Morris management I worked with,

92
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 1: the vain head of finance explained to me one day

93
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,600
Speaker 1: that his soul, he considered his sole job, was to

94
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,400
Speaker 1: stop Jim and Dave's mad schemes. This was Jim Wyatt

95
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: and Dave Workesch after so, which was very encouraging to

96
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 1: me because we were I had a great team here.

97
00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,280
Speaker 1: We managed to break even in the first year. They

98
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 1: budgeted to lose money for seven years and it was

99
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: impossible to get anything done. The reaction time was ridiculously long.

100
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: We missed out on getting extra office space for that reason.

101
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 1: They just didn't act quickly. Enough, and after about two

102
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: and a half years there was a particular incident. I

103
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 1: was asked to sign a chit which gave us the

104
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: right to have semi skim milk as well as full

105
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 1: cram milk. This landed on my desk, and that happened

106
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,640
Speaker 1: to be the catalyst, and I just thought, you know,

107
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: I didn't sign up for this, and and I left.

108
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:18,440
Speaker 1: And it was very shortly after that Endeavor merged with them,

109
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: and then within about a week took them over. And okay,

110
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 1: now you come from the era when the whole business

111
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: was built. This is one of the things that bothers me.

112
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,160
Speaker 1: They say, oh, music is the same as it ever was.

113
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: It certainly is not now. I always analogize it to

114
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 1: the internet. There was all this excitement starting in the

115
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 1: mid nineties, certainly to about uh in the sixties we

116
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,480
Speaker 1: were developing the business. If you take about Peter Graham,

117
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 1: Peter Graham flipped the touring business, said hey, the gig

118
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 1: is going to sell out anyway, I might as well

119
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,440
Speaker 1: take the lion. Sure of the money. The question becomes

120
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 1: I always say, a great musician not only is a

121
00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: bad business person, but they couldn't even at the seven

122
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 1: eleven because they couldn't show up on time. I say

123
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,480
Speaker 1: the great same thing about the Titans and the history

124
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 1: of the music business. They literally couldn't work anywhere else.

125
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 1: They could only work for themselves. Do you believe A

126
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 1: this is still true? And be what can you tell

127
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: us about the kind of personality that created and drove

128
00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: this business? I'll take the second part of that first. Um.

129
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 1: Of course my experiences UK and we were always following America,

130
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 1: So the first thing really that happened here of any

131
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,719
Speaker 1: significance would have been a N seven when UM a

132
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: little story for you, E M. I. Back in those

133
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: days they had four A and R guys who sat

134
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 1: on a committee, and back in those days, most of

135
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 1: the UK labels just had kind of one off deals

136
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: with American labels, so they had first refusal for an

137
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 1: instance on the records coming out of our C A

138
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 1: and I. In later the years of his life, I

139
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 1: became very very close friends with Sir George Martin, who

140
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,200
Speaker 1: was a great He became almost like a second dad

141
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 1: to me. And he was on this committee with three

142
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 1: other A and OUR men, and a record arrived one

143
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,080
Speaker 1: day and they played it and they thought there was

144
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 1: something wrong with it. They thought that the tape or

145
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,480
Speaker 1: something had stretched. So they call up the American company

146
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: and said this record you've sent us, it's it's it

147
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 1: doesn't sound right. And the American then said, no, no,

148
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 1: that's the record. It's turning into a huge hit here.

149
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 1: You should pick it up. Originally the vote was three

150
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: votes against one vote four, which was George. George then

151
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 1: set about, over a period of three or four weeks,

152
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,319
Speaker 1: brain busting the other three. Well, he only needed two

153
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: more votes. He brain busted, He got two of them

154
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 1: to agree, and they put it and that record was Heartbreak,

155
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 1: Hotel Wow, and it changed everything. So George Martin was

156
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: not just the beat was producer. He was also the

157
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 1: person who and that record would have come out anyway obviously,

158
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,400
Speaker 1: but we only had the only labels I can remember

159
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,240
Speaker 1: back then were Decca, Pie and E M I, and

160
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 1: one of them would have picked it up. And when

161
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: I came into the music business, first of all, it

162
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: wasn't called the music business. And secondly it wasn't a business.

163
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 1: It was this completely chaotic thing which was full of

164
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 1: some fairly dubious characters who had spotted that there was

165
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: cash to be made and I emphasized the word cash

166
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,520
Speaker 1: in bags. And this was pre Brian Epstein. I'm talking

167
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: about the period from about nineteen fifty seven to about

168
00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, and there were there were there were guys,

169
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 1: people with names like Larry Palms. He was nervous Mr Palms,

170
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 1: Shillings and Pence because he and he had the first

171
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,840
Speaker 1: boy bands as we now call them. All of his

172
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,960
Speaker 1: acts were basically guys who looked great and it didn't

173
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: matter whether they could sing. We had a couple of

174
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 1: very early and pretty primitive television show six five Special

175
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,679
Speaker 1: which went out at five past six on a Saturday,

176
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 1: and a show called Oh Boy, and it was Oh Boy,

177
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,559
Speaker 1: which had an edge to it. It had a producer

178
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 1: called Jack Good who went on to do various of

179
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: the things, and people like Cliff Richard and the Shadows

180
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 1: Billy Fury out of a Faith got their start on

181
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,199
Speaker 1: that show. And that was a black and white TV show.

182
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 1: And if you were thirteen years old, you made sure

183
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 1: you you were at home on a Saturday at six

184
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: o'clock to watch one of these two shows. The business

185
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 1: was full of characters. Of course. One of the things

186
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,080
Speaker 1: about working in music you don't actually need any qualifications.

187
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,480
Speaker 1: You are what you are what you say you are.

188
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 1: So if you're a promoter, if you walk into it.

189
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 1: Back when I was in my early days as an agent,

190
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 1: a promoter was somebody who walked in and said I'm

191
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 1: a promoter, and within five minutes I'd be selling in

192
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 1: deep purple dates and praying that they would earn that

193
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,560
Speaker 1: the the upfront ticket sales would be sufficient that they

194
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 1: could pay the deposit, because of course nobody had escrow

195
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,160
Speaker 1: accounts back then. They just took the money and thought

196
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 1: of it as their own money. And I think that

197
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 1: the music really followed the early American rock and roll singers,

198
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,840
Speaker 1: the Evely Brothers, Elvis, Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino,

199
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 1: that Chuck Berry. Of course, that era, and that kind

200
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 1: of metamorphosized into the Beatles era, and of course on

201
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: the first Beatles record, or the first album that was

202
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: released in the UK, there were a large number of covers,

203
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 1: including a roll over Beethoven for instance, I can remember.

204
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 1: So it was a very from about through to probably

205
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:19,560
Speaker 1: about sixty sixty seven. It was a pretty it was

206
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 1: a bit wild West. We didn't have things like you

207
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 1: had in America. Like Paola and that kind of thing,

208
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: because we only had the BBC, and of course I can't.

209
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 1: I should absolutely include this Radio Luxembourg. Radio Luxembourg, which

210
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:42,320
Speaker 1: was broadcast from Luxembourg, was played pop music from about

211
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,560
Speaker 1: seven o'clock in the evening to about midnight, and it

212
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,319
Speaker 1: had a fading signal and in the house I lived

213
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: up in the north of England, the only place I

214
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: could get the full signal was halfway up the staircase,

215
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: so I would spend hours sitting on the staircase listening

216
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 1: to Roy Orbison whoever it happened to be. The BBC

217
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 1: only played pop music on one show, which was directed,

218
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: which was for the American gies who were posted in Germany,

219
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 1: and they would send in rickly was called Two Way

220
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 1: Family Favorites. They would send in requests and once in

221
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: a while Perry Como would be put aside and you'd here,

222
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: don't be cruel, all shook up or whatever happened to be,

223
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: and you would you would listen to this entire to

224
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: our program in the hope that they would play one

225
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 1: or two bona fide pop songs. And of course there

226
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,720
Speaker 1: were no categories. It was just pop music. We didn't

227
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 1: have a rock and roll. There was no country, there

228
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 1: was no heavy metal, there was no folk, none of that. Okay,

229
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: maybe I'm interrupting, but let's go back to what circumstances

230
00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 1: do you grow up in? Well. I was born Yorkshire,

231
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,360
Speaker 1: which is up in the north of England. I my

232
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 1: father was the principle of a grammar school. My mom

233
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 1: sort of my mom. I had a younger brother. We

234
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 1: lived in a town halfway between Leeds and York until

235
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 1: I was about eleven, and then we moved up to

236
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: where they actually they built a brand new school, which

237
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 1: was the largest in Yorkshire at the time, and we

238
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: moved up there and lived at the school. It wasn't

239
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 1: a private school, it was just a regular day school.

240
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 1: When I was thirteen years old, that Christmas, my parents

241
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 1: and I would love it if they were alive now

242
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 1: because I would love to be able to ask them

243
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: why they did this. They bought me Elvis's Gold Records,

244
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 1: Volume one, which were the principle of a grammar school

245
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: in Yorkshire. In that was quite a stretch and I

246
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: can remember on Christmas morning going down putting it on

247
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,200
Speaker 1: the old radio gram you know, when the record would

248
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 1: fall down with a crash and the first track on

249
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 1: that record on side one is hound Dog and two

250
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: minutes twenty six seconds later, my life had changed completely. Okay,

251
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 1: many many years later, but many years later I had

252
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: the pleasure of spending an afternoon with Scotty Moore and

253
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: d J. Fontana, who played guitar and drums on that respectively,

254
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: which was a complete trip. Oh yeah, when you meet

255
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: your heroes from that era. Uh, but let's go back.

256
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 1: One thing is as an American, I'm slightly younger than

257
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 1: you in that we grew up with television. I had

258
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: New York markets, so there were off six TV channels, etcetera.

259
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: But we get the impression that in the UK it

260
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: was economically disadvantage and this impacted the music scene. What

261
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 1: was it like growing up in that era. Well, you're correct,

262
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 1: because that was the post war era, so we as

263
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: the UK. I remember once asking my parents what was

264
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: the most significant thing in their lives, and without a

265
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: second hesitation, they both said, in unison, the war something.

266
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,880
Speaker 1: And I remember my dad saying our lives were put

267
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: on hold for seven years. So when we came out

268
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,000
Speaker 1: of the war, for a certain age group, we still

269
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 1: had national service. You still had to go into the army.

270
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 1: The economy, of course, had been completely ruined by the

271
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,400
Speaker 1: war effort we had. But my memory of that period

272
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 1: is that everything was dark, everything was wet. It was

273
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 1: always raining. It's raining now, but it's see different about then,

274
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 1: and it was a very It was austerea. We didn't

275
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 1: have a lot of the modern things I think that

276
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,679
Speaker 1: you've got in America. Before us, we didn't have central heating,

277
00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 1: didn't have had coal fires. You would take a bath

278
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,360
Speaker 1: in a tin in a tin bath. You as the

279
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 1: son of a school teacher, you did that. You didn't

280
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 1: have senating. You took a bath in a tin bath. Yes, absolutely, Yeah,

281
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 1: I still do yeah, no, but no, yes absolutely. I

282
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 1: mean he was he when he passed. I remember you

283
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 1: going through your parents his things. He had kept every

284
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: single pace lip he had ever received ever and when

285
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: he passed, when she was in the mid seventies, sorry,

286
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: in the wh he retired in the mid seventies. He

287
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 1: was making a hundred pounds a week. That was a

288
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: good salary back then. Well, okay, so are you the

289
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: older brother the younger brother? I knew that, okay, So

290
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 1: what was it like going to school? Were your father

291
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 1: ro the head mask well fly enough. It was okay.

292
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: I didn't get any stick from the other kids, but

293
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: there were a few teachers who thought that they would

294
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: kind of try it on a bit. I was. It

295
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 1: was interesting education period because when I look back on it,

296
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, I as I say, they bought me this record,

297
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 1: and then we two Within two years, I had seen

298
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,679
Speaker 1: an old black and white movie on on Sunday's The BBC,

299
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 1: which was then just the BBC used to show old

300
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 1: black and white movies from the kind of swing era,

301
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,120
Speaker 1: Buzzby Barkley kind of films. And they showed a movie

302
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,679
Speaker 1: called George White Scandals, which featured the American jazz drummer

303
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,919
Speaker 1: Jeane Crooper. And I'm watching Jane Crooper bash this white

304
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 1: drum kit and light went on and I, instead of

305
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: a bicycle, which would be the normal thing you'd want

306
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: at that age, I decided I wanted to play drums,

307
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,239
Speaker 1: which got me to the point that I'm talking to you.

308
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: And my dad we went into Leeds. We went to

309
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: a music store called Kitchens. And there's an interesting coincidence

310
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: here because at the exactly the same moment in time,

311
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: Martinoffler was going to the same shop. He turned left

312
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: into guitars. If you turned right you went to woodwinds,

313
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 1: And as always happened in music shops, if you went

314
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: into the basement, there was the drum department. And I

315
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: went down into the basement and we bought a snare drum,

316
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,120
Speaker 1: a pair of sticks, a pair of brushes for six pounds.

317
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: And the guy who was the salesman said, we give lessons,

318
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: which was surprising to me because of course I thought

319
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: you just hit them, which which you don't. And this

320
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: was an excuse for him to sell my dad the

321
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 1: body Rich drum Tutor, which is the drum tutter. All

322
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: drummers know this drum tutor, which Buddy Rich just put

323
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: his name to. He didn't write the thing. It was

324
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 1: written by a guy called Henry Adler, and for an

325
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: extra thirty shillings we got the book and I was

326
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: enrolled for drum lessons, which I took for four years.

327
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: Okay this when you bought the drums, you'd already heard

328
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley. Yes, yes, okay, you remember the brand name

329
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: of that snare drum. It was a a pretty cheap

330
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: British in put in imitation of American drums, and it

331
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 1: was a company called Olympic, who were eventually bought by

332
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 1: Premier Drums. Okay, so you start off with a snare drum,

333
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: At what point do you get a complete kit? Wow?

334
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,919
Speaker 1: Like I had to save up money pocket money and

335
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: basically got a bass drum next without a pedal, then

336
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 1: got a pedal, and then got a symbol, a ride symbol,

337
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: and then got high hats and probably took me eighteen months.

338
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: And immediately, of course I got together with some pals

339
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: at school who played guitar and bass and a singer.

340
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: And of course back then you could be in a

341
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: band if you owned an amplifier. That was the qualification.

342
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: You didn't have to play. So we formed a beat group,

343
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: this is pre beatles, and we promptly learned every single

344
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: number by a group called Shadows, who were Cliff Richards

345
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: backing band. The equivalent in America would have been a

346
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: band like the Ventures. And we would play two and

347
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: a half minute instrumentals and we learned probably eighty of

348
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: them B sides, album tracks, and then we started about

349
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: five the British blues boom was getting underway with people

350
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: like Alexis Corner, very early rolling stones, pretty things, so

351
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: we started we started to shift towards that, and of course,

352
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: almost slightly before that, the Beatles are arrived, so we

353
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: so of course, when the Beatles arrived, we did what

354
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: every other band in Britain did. We dumped the entire

355
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: Shadows repertoire and started learning Beatles song. Okay, let's say

356
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: once you learn those, mute those songs, you got gigs? Correct? Yes, yes,

357
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: who booked those gigs? Parents? Okay, because usually the drummer

358
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: is the business guy, we'll find that interest there. So

359
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: many drummers would survived the bands and careers like you had.

360
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: So what kind of gigs did he get? We just

361
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: played in uh um youth clubs, played in played in

362
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: old people's hopes, played in St Patrick's night dances. There

363
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: was a hole in the town I lived in which

364
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: held about four people. We used to play there. We

365
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: would play in leeds Um and we played in an

366
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: area which was probably about fifty square miles and we

367
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: would probably play Fridays and Saturdays and sometimes Sundays. And

368
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: of course the parents also did the transport. We had

369
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: very very giving parents. My parents traded in the car

370
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: they had and got any state car so we could

371
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: put the seat down and put the drums in. And

372
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: what kind of money were you making? Two or three

373
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: pounds show? Okay, many people when they start having gigs

374
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: like that, never mind within a fifty mile area, they

375
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: start to experience, shall we call it, the perks of

376
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: the road, the sex, the drugs, the last we are

377
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: appearance along and nothing happened, or you know what was

378
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: tree inspiring? Well, first of all, Bob, we were thirteen fourteen, fifteen,

379
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: so and I can tell you in that part of

380
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: Britain at the time, people couldn't spell drugs alone access them.

381
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: There were there were no drugs. I mean we would

382
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: when I got to college, we would smoke grass cuttings.

383
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: We would smoke lawn cuttings, and and and and to

384
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: listen to the Moody Blues first album and think that

385
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: we were hip and relevant. Um, there was the sex, drugs,

386
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: and rock and roll came along a bit later, but

387
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: at that point, no, I mean you you'd finished at

388
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: eleven thirty at night, and your mom and dad would

389
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: be outside with the with the car. You pat your

390
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: gear up and put it in and then you'd be

391
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: wished away and that was that. There was, but a

392
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: lot of people, certainly the lead sixties British musicians, they

393
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: were not that great verbally, and they said, well, I

394
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: got into music to meet girls. Yeah, so were you

395
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: meeting girls? I was meeting them, yes, but that was it.

396
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: I was meeting them. I mean I was, I was

397
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: motivated by by I just found the whole thing incredibly romantic,

398
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: just to be playing music. And yes, if yeah, but

399
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean I'm talking about I was fifteen years old,

400
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: so I wasn't doing what your point you're into yet

401
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: all people that we weren't any deeper than that. Now,

402
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 1: the Beatles really hit in sixty three, and what was

403
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: that like being on the ground with the Beatles? Hire

404
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: certainly an American happened very quickly in January six. What

405
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: was it like? Okay, Well, their first single, of course

406
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: was Loved Me Do, and that came out I think

407
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: made sixty two probably, and it didn't make much of

408
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: an impact. And I remember as the group, we would

409
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: rehearse every week and we would start learning adding new songs,

410
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: and we that record was so insignificant at the time

411
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: that we didn't even bother adding it to our kind

412
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: of set list. But this endless set list, but not

413
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: long after must have been the early part of sixty

414
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: three or round about spring Please Please Me came out,

415
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: which George Martin incidentally told me was originally recorded at

416
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: half the tempo, as like a Royal Orbison ballad. I

417
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: don't know whether you know this. So the way they

418
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: recorded it it was like bum bum bum bump, dad

419
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: bump bump bump like that. And he said double the

420
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: tempo and put the chorus at the beginning. And when

421
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: they finished it, he said to them, you've just recorded

422
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: your first number one. And I said to him, did

423
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: you really think that? And he said no, no, I

424
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: was just just trying to keep them around. But I

425
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: went to see the Beatles on a package tour. It

426
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: was on June three at the Odeon Theater in Leeds.

427
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: They were on a show with Roy Orbison, Jerry and

428
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: the Postmaker's Silla Black and a couple of other acts.

429
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: Orbison had originally started the tour as the headliner, and

430
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: a dozen shows in they flipped it so that he

431
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: opened the and half chosen. Those days had an interval

432
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: because you could not hear yourself think or and the

433
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: other thing I remember, which nobody ever talks about was

434
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: the smell of girls urinating on velvet cinema seats with

435
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: steam rising from the seats and you're looking as cancer

436
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: that But honestly, that was what it was like. The

437
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the artist that I saw in that period of time

438
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: who got the biggest scream and undoubtedly this the largest

439
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: volume of p was Del Shannon. He people went nuts

440
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: for him. I say, why particularly, but the Beatle that

441
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: Beatles show? What I remember about that Beatles Show? And

442
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: I still got the program I've got the programs from

443
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: all these shows. I would take a bio and I

444
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: would write down the set list, and of course they

445
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: play twenty five minutes, and they did. I remember they

446
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: started off when I saw her standing there, finished with

447
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: twist and shout. They did a great version of you

448
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: Really Got a hold on Me, that Miracles number, and

449
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: they did Taste of Honey, which was quite unusual for

450
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: the band of that time. But that was the period

451
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: when they all had the same haircut, they were all

452
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: wearing the same outfits. They had the round collars on

453
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: the jackets ties with pins through which we all immediately

454
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: rushed out to get outfits like that, and they um

455
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: the screaming was what I remember. You could barely hear

456
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: a note of music. Were you caught up in the

457
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: menia or were you like removed saying, well, that's the girls,

458
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: that's not for the boys. Well I wasn't. I wasn't screaming,

459
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: that's for sure. You couldn't help. But we swept along

460
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: by it. I mean, I was fifteen years old. I

461
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: just had my fifteenth birthday, and I think the music

462
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: that you hear between the ages of about twelve and sixteen,

463
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: certainly for me or for my generation, was what fashions

464
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: your taste thereafter. I think that just kind of because

465
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: you're of an age where it's so it really gets

466
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: into your kind of soul, into your being. And I

467
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: had been collecting Elvis records and the other artist, the

468
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: rock and roll artist. I just I mentioned to you

469
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. I happened to be a big

470
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: fan of instrumentals, so I had a lot of Duane

471
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: Eddie records people like that. But the fact that they

472
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: were a British group, um completely, I think blew everybody away.

473
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: It was it was the fact that they were home

474
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: grown and that they were writing their own songs that

475
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: that was a real leap. I remember George Martin again

476
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: saying to me that, of course when he first saw them,

477
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: he I said to him, you didn't. I interviewed him

478
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: four times and I remember saying to him that, I said,

479
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: you didn't sign them because you thought they were any good,

480
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: did you? And he said, know, they were terrible. I

481
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: said you signed them because you liked them as people

482
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: and he said yes. And I said did you signed

483
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: them because of Brian Epstein's enthusiasm And he said yes.

484
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: And I said, did you signed them because the E

485
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: m I record deal back then was so bad it

486
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: represented no risk to the company. They got one old

487
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: English penny royalty for the sale of an album in

488
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: the UK, and they got half of one old English

489
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: penny for the sale of an album outside of the UK.

490
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: So and they had to use abbey Road em My studio.

491
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: They had to do as an abbey Road producer of

492
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: an EMI producer, which happened to be George who was

493
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: making comedy records at the time. He wasn't doing music.

494
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: And they had to use an engine A m I

495
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: engineers who wore white coats, had like surgical gloves. You

496
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: had to do an A side and a B side

497
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: in three hours. The music was never ever ever played

498
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: back to the act ever. And if you didn't do

499
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: the I side in the Bay side in three hours,

500
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. Whatever you've got recorded was what would

501
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: come out. Don't no, so don't forget. Everything was very

502
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: compressed in the US. The Stones came very quickly after

503
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and then it would be a big thing

504
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: on the radio Saturday Night battle between the Rock the

505
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: Stones in the Beatles. In your particular case, you said

506
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: you were playing music with your band influenced by the

507
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: British blues scene. Was there that bifurcation in the UK

508
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: where you were one or the other? Were you one

509
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: or the other your Beatles restored, Uh no, not really

510
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: a little you see, they were all lumped together. They

511
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: were pop groups. The Rolling Stones were not. We didn't

512
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: know what blues music was. I mean, we were white,

513
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: middle class kids. I've had this conversation with many musicians

514
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: who were in the bands of that era, bands like

515
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: the Searchers, Manfred Man and the rest of them, and

516
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page and Robert and so on, and of course

517
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: they look back on it now as being pretty ridiculous.

518
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: That white middle aged, sorry, white middle class kids from

519
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: South London were trying to sound like John Lee Hooker.

520
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: It was just completely ridiculous, but they were all and

521
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: everybody was slowing the records down by hand to try

522
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: and grab what the lyrics were because American lyrics. I'll

523
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: give you an example. Many years ago, I happened to

524
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: be in Nashville with Martin Offer and we were having

525
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: dinner with well On Jennings and the Evely brothers and

526
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: Emmy Harris, and I remember saying, I've always wanted to

527
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: ask you guys to don Phil what what's a bird dog?

528
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: And they burst out laughing and they said, well, you

529
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: know when you go hunting, do you have you have

530
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: a dog? And I said, oh, you mean a retriever

531
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: and they said, no, no, it's a bird dog. For

532
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: years we had wondered what a bird dog was, and

533
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: there were many many examples of that. And I remember

534
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: Whalon saying to market myself, he said, you you know

535
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: more about us than we know about us. And I said, well,

536
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: you have to understand that when we were growing up,

537
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: everything American was magical. Our introduction to America was through

538
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: the early Westerns, like raw hide Wagon Train. Then it

539
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: moved on to the crime shows like Dragnet s Unset Strip,

540
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: and then through music, through rock and roll music. And

541
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: I suppose there was a slight overlap with maybe the

542
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: big band swing era just before that. So on the

543
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: radio you would hear um maybe the Ellington band or

544
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: the BASSI Band, probably quite late at night, and the

545
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: whole I can't overstress the romance of it to us.

546
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: And I remember saying to them, Mark can recite the

547
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: the entire sleeve note from Elvis is Gold Records Volume one,

548
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: and Mark probably started reciting it and I won't, no, no, no,

549
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: you don't. But we that we would read, we would

550
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: memorize the sleeve notes. And the other thing that was

551
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: mystifying to us, because they were never credited, was who

552
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: played on these records. This became something of an adventure

553
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: to try and find out. And it was only really

554
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: when Phil Spector's Wall of Sound came along that you

555
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: heard about people like Hal Blaine or Carol Kay or whoever.

556
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: We didn't know who Scotty Moore and d J. Fontana

557
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: were who or what, or that there was a horn

558
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: section in Fat Domino's band. I remember when I met

559
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: Roy Orbison years later I said to him one of

560
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: my memories about him was that he played a show

561
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: in Leeds in this venue I was talking about on

562
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: a later tour, and he had four violinists. They were

563
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: playing white violins sitting on white cane chairs, unamplified. But

564
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: because you knew the records so well, when they were

565
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: sawing away, you could imagine the sound even though you

566
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: couldn't hear the sound well articulated. Now, when the Beatles

567
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: hit in the US, everybody picked up the guitar. People

568
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: were forming bands left in the right. What was like

569
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: in the UK? It was the same, It was the same.

570
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: There was a there was a magazine in Liverpool called

571
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: Mersey Beat, which gave Rise and the other music. I'm

572
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: going to call them trade papers, but they weren't really

573
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: trade papers like billboards. There were two in particular. One

574
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: was called the New Musical Express Enemy and the other

575
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: was Melody Maker, And the Melody Maker was really a

576
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: jazz paper, and it kind of quite rapidly became Beatles.

577
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: Stones and another band that people forget who were huge

578
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: here and I know huge in your country, the Dave

579
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: Clark five. They were big, but for a shorter period

580
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: of time period, right, um, Once again the drummer was

581
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: the business guy. Well, yeah, an interesting story about Dave Clark.

582
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: Tell you a little story here. So Dave from the

583
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: from another drummer nearly all the rather like in your

584
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: country at the time, we had a very strong musician

585
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: Miss Musicians union here at the time, and most pop records,

586
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: which you and I would consider to be the hits

587
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: of that whole period from about sixty three through to

588
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: about sixty six, the bands didn't play on them. Studio

589
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: players played on them, and Dave Clark didn't play on

590
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: any of his own records. I didn't know that they

591
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: were all done by a drummer, a drummer called Bobby Graham,

592
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: and Bobby Graham was one and it was a bit

593
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: like the Wall of Sound guys, the Wrecking Crew. There

594
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: were three guys who did all the drums. There were

595
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: two piano players, there were four bass players, six guitarists

596
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: and song So Bobby Graham is doing a session for

597
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: bits and pieces to follow up to Glad all over.

598
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: I can hear, and he's down in the studio and

599
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: Dave Clark is up in the producers box and Bobby

600
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: is playing buff buff into the song and Dave Clark

601
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: preciously into commen. He says, I need you to play

602
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: that simpler. So he goes, no, no, no, no, You've

603
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: got to play it simpler, and he goes, you can't

604
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: play it. He's just playing four in the bar exactly

605
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: as you say. And finally Bobby, in exasperation, hits the

606
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: talkback and says, why have I got to play it

607
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: like this? And Dave Clark says, because I've got to

608
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: mind to it and all those records were covered one

609
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: of my dearest friends. He's getting on in use now.

610
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: It's a drama called Clem Cotini, who played with the

611
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: Tornadoes on Telstar, which was the first British record to

612
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: get to number one in the US. I think and um,

613
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 1: he played on number one hits in the UK, all

614
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: of the all the all of the key stuff, for instance,

615
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: and he doesn't have a dime. Uh correct correct all

616
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: these legends. Okay, so you're playing drums. The scene goes

617
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: thermonuclear A. Most of the players from the English world

618
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: don't go to university. Yet you go to university. Was

619
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: there any thought, as you say in the UK of

620
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: turning bro and not going to university. I wanted to

621
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: do that, but uh, I kind of came to a

622
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: sort of this is my first deal, if you like,

623
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: a deal with my parents. But I would go to university.

624
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: I would hopefully get a degree and then I would

625
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: go to London and try and be a professional musician. Now,

626
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: of course I had ah an idea of my own

627
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: talents that was considerably greater than they actually were, because

628
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: I was eighteen years old. But a very very strange

629
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: thing happened. I go up to university in Hull, in Yorkshire,

630
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: in city very like Liverpool on just on the other

631
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: side of the country. And on the first night I

632
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: was there, or the second night, they were having a

633
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: dance in the students union, which is where girls would

634
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: dance around their handbags and boys would look at them

635
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: and wonder if they could cut in. And I walk

636
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: into the front of the student union and something happened

637
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: which brought me to this place. There's a Tanoi message

638
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 1: going out if anybody in the building can play drums,

639
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: would they please come to reception. And I was standing

640
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: at reception and I can see the woman who's speaking

641
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: into the microphone, so without thinking what this might be,

642
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: I said to her, I can And this guy shot out,

643
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: who I later learned was a chap called Malcolm Haig,

644
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: and he said to me, are you any good? I said, well, yeah,

645
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: quite good it he said, well, how good are you?

646
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: I said, well quite good? He said, the drama with

647
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: the band tonight can't play sick and we haven't got

648
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: any records. We don't have a like a DJ thing.

649
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 1: He said, so can you play with them? And I went, uh, well, yeah,

650
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what do they play. So anyway, he

651
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: starts leading me off to the dressing room and it

652
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: turned out, now you won't know this band, but it

653
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: turned out they were a band called the Victor Brox

654
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: Blues Train. Victor Brox later went onto a little bit

655
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: of success because he sings on the first cast recording

656
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ Superstar, but at the time he was

657
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: the frontman of a six piece blues band playing blues covers.

658
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: And there was a coincidence because the previous week this

659
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: group had played in my hometown. I hadn't gone, but

660
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: I'd seen the posters up everywhere. So I go into

661
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: the dressing room. I'm into used to them and there's

662
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: another student who said this message and he's got in

663
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: there before me, and I think to myself, sad him,

664
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to get rid of him. So I did

665
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: a bluff. And one of the things in management you

666
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: have to learn how to do is bluff, bluff like

667
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: mad and I said to Victor Brox, I said, ah,

668
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: I saw your band last week in Tadcaster. I know

669
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: all of the songs you do. The other guy immediately

670
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: turned around and left, and then I said to them

671
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: how much are you going to pay me? And they

672
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: won't pay you. I said, yeah, how much are you

673
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: gonna pay me? And we settled on five pounds. They

674
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: were getting forty pounds. When I've done the deal for

675
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: the money, I said, listen, there's something you need to know.

676
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: I didn't see you last week. I just saw the posters,

677
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: which they thought was hilarious. And I said, what do

678
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: you play? And they did knock on wood, hold on,

679
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm coming. You don't know like I know Motown Stacks

680
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: James Brown, which I had played dozens of times. I

681
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: just said to the bass player, can you count me in?

682
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: And just signal when you come into the end, because

683
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: in rock music you only have to know the beginning

684
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: in the end. What happens in the middle doesn't matter.

685
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 1: And I got through two minutes, said kept it simple,

686
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: didn't screw it up. Big hugs at the end, get

687
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: my five pounds and I go into the bar. I'm

688
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: going a drink, and a tall blonde girl called Trudy

689
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: comes up to me and says, I really enjoyed your playing,

690
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: And I went, did you? And I bought her a

691
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: larger in line or something, and she said, would you

692
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: like to come back to my student house for coffee?

693
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: Which was which was the sign? So I said, yeah, sure,

694
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: love love to. So I'm coming out of the student

695
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: union and a flash gun goes off in my face

696
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: and a little guy cop pops out and he says,

697
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: I'm the I'm the editor of the student newspaper, talked,

698
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: we'd like to do a front page feature on you

699
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: next week. What's your name? What course are you on?

700
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: Where did you come from? Were you nervous? How did

701
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: you know all those songs? So I do an interview

702
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: with this guy. At the same time the chap who

703
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: had come up to me when I got into the place,

704
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: who turned out to be the social secretary as we

705
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 1: call them here. It was leaving and he came over

706
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: to me and he said, I'm a I'm a pianist.

707
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: Do you want to be in my group? And I said, yeah, sure.

708
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: I said who else is in your group? He said nobody,

709
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: it's me and you will. But I know a flute

710
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: player and he happened to be running the entertainments committee.

711
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: He said, do you want to be on the entertainments committee?

712
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: And I said that what does that do? I don't

713
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: know what that is. He said, well, we run all

714
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: the entertainment. We run a dance every Saturday. We do

715
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: a union ball once a year. I also run the

716
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: jazz club and the folk club. Okay, so on my

717
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 1: first night, I've played a eg, have made five pounds

718
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: of pulled a bird, I'm on the front cover of

719
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: the student in newspaper paper, and I've joined the entertainments committee.

720
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: And at the end of my first year he stepped

721
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: down to do his finals exams and he said to me,

722
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: you take over. And I said we're supposed to have

723
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: an election and he went, as are you stupid? So

724
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: I took over entertainment. Okay, let's go back to the beginner.

725
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: Where did you get the Hudspur asked for five paths.

726
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: I've always had hutspur. That's That's why I'm on your show.

727
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: But exactly that, where does that come from? Your parents?

728
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: Where did you learn that? Actually? I was quite shy

729
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: at that point. I mean, having gone through the school

730
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: experience I had, which was, you know, living at the

731
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: school that I went to and kind of putting up

732
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: with a bit of ribbing from certain teachers, and that

733
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I don't know just what

734
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: makes you the man you are. But since you mentioned

735
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: her name, we have to ask what happened with Trudy?

736
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: Oh truly went the way of all ladies of the time.

737
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: You know. She we we used to, we used to,

738
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: we used to have a dreadful cut coffee with you know,

739
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: those chemicals sprinkled on the top, and she I dually.

740
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this was like being let into a sweet

741
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: shop for me. I mean I had one girlfriend back

742
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: in Yorkshire and here I am, and I'm suddenly in

743
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: a sweet shop. And when I took over the entertainments,

744
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: I was just by default the best known person in

745
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: the university because I had the most glamorous gig if

746
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: you like. And I made one decision which stood me

747
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: in very good stead then and I have kept right

748
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: up to now. I decided I would only put on

749
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: bands that I liked, and somehow I would sell them

750
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: to my audience. And I had including the teacher training

751
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: college down the road, in the technical college next door,

752
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: I had twelve thou students to draw and who had

753
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: a student union card. I had a hall which was

754
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: the third largest in the UK, held a thousand people.

755
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: So the first band I bought was the Moody Blues. Okay, well,

756
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: well let's slow down a little bit. You were a drummer.

757
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: Now you got the gig in to use the line

758
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: from Let It Be, you passed the audition? Yes, at

759
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: what point do you bring your drums to university? Within

760
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: two weeks of that? So, at what point do you

761
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 1: say I'm a businessman as opposed to a drummer. I've

762
00:48:53,920 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: never said that. Um. That was later when I got

763
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: down to London. Okay, so all this time that you're

764
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: ahead of the entertainment program, in the back of your mind,

765
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: the dream is still alive. You're gonna be a drummer. Yeah, absolutely,

766
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 1: And what happened. I never had any aspirations to get

767
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: onto the business side. I didn't know what the business

768
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: side was. I was, as I was saying earlier, there

769
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: really wasn't a defined music business like we know it now.

770
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: I had no clue what anybody did. I knew I

771
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: had heard of Colonel Parker, I'd heard of Epstein. I

772
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: didn't know what they did, the mechanics of what they did. Okay.

773
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: So while you were in university, were you also playing

774
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: in the bands, whether it would be the pianist or

775
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: somebody else, Yes, yes, and I and I also I

776
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: got a jazz group together, playing kind of I'm going

777
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: to call it modern jazz. It was really just rubbish,

778
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: but that's what we did. Okay. So you booked the

779
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: Moody Blues. How do you even do that? How do

780
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: you know who the agent is? How do you know

781
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: what's going to call? My predecessor as the social secretary,

782
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: this guy Malcolm, when he said decided to step down

783
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: and to do his finals, he said, oh look, here's that.

784
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: He wrote them down. He wrote a list of the

785
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: agencies that he dealt with. Now, the agency business in

786
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: London at the time was small. I mean they were

787
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: probably six five six agencies, and there weren't that many

788
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: bands either. I mean we didn't have you know, there

789
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: were maybe playing on the student circuit. There were probably

790
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: a hundred hundred and fifty bands, and that they might

791
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: range from a pound a night local group to the

792
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: most I ever paid for an act was four hundred

793
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: pounds for Jethro Toll and they had a top three

794
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: single when I had them. Okay, would you come up

795
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: with the band and then find the agent or would

796
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: you call the agency when he had available both? And

797
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: of course I was also fielding calls constantly the all

798
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 1: of the agents in London, and they weren't really agents,

799
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: that they were bookers. We were no, we didn't call

800
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: them agents the bookers. Uh. And nobody did tours. Then

801
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: everybody gaved and and you try to get bands, would

802
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: try and get, you know, a student date on a

803
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: Friday and Saturday, because that would pay more. They could

804
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: make maybe get anywhere between a hundred and twenty five

805
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: to fifty pounds for a net for a name act,

806
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: a decent name, and um, those same bands might play

807
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: on a Sunday night for fifty pounds somewhere, and and

808
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: everybody was kind of on a wage sort of thing,

809
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: and typically a musician might make pounds a week back

810
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: then I'm talking or sixty six through to sixty nine.

811
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: How did you have time to do your school work? Well? Um,

812
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: just worked hard. I mean I got a decent degree.

813
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: And what did you study? I did, Well, it was

814
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: a new course. It was called social studies and in

815
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: fact the group I was part of was as I

816
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: found out when I got there, um because I went

817
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: for an interview and the professor who interviewed me, she

818
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: was so grateful I'd applied because this was a brand

819
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: new course and we were the experiment, this group that

820
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: I was part of, which was probably about thirty five

821
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: students they were going to we were going to start

822
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: this course, and I just and it included sociology, philosophy, economics,

823
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: things like that at British Social history since since the

824
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution eighteen and I just I got stuck into that.

825
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: But my real thing was was doing doing the entertainments.

826
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: And then a couple of questions, how many gigs would

827
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: you do a year? How many shows? Are you talking

828
00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: about me personally? And probably be about okay, And there

829
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: was a fund that you drew on or were you

830
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: starting at dollar zero, I were starting with the ticket

831
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: money that came in. Okay, so there are certain acts

832
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: that are instant sellouts, but a lot of acts are not.

833
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: How did you promote the shows? I learned some very

834
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: good lessons very quickly, which stood me in very good

835
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: stead for my later career. The first was that if

836
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: you if you can't read a poster from the top

837
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: of a double decker bus, it's not worth ship. So

838
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: I just used to do a black background with day

839
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: glow green, day glow, pink, day glow orange. It would

840
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 1: say who it was, where it was, when it was,

841
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: and how much I got. I got an entertainments committed together,

842
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: and I delegated two different people. They would go and

843
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: they would put a flyer under the door of every

844
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: single room in every single hall of residents. I would

845
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: put flyers on every dining table for a week. I

846
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: would try. I would have the music played over the

847
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: student union p A. And also I had the biggest

848
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 1: thing I had going for me was that this was

849
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: a Saturday night and the students, the male and the

850
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: female students. Basically, Saturday night was the night where you

851
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: got together and you know that you ended up with

852
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: a knee trembler by the end of the evening. And

853
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 1: if you don't know what that is, Bob, I'll send

854
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: you a text. So so but but but you know

855
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: lust they are now was a big driving force, and

856
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: certainly in a student environment. And but one, but just

857
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: a little side story. When I bought the Moody Blues

858
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 1: at that time they had had what they had had

859
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: one number one hit in the UK with a Bessie

860
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: Banks song called go Now. Danny Lane was the singer

861
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: who later went onto Wings and they were essentially an

862
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 1: R and B group from Birmingham. In between the time

863
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: I bought them and the time they came, Denny and

864
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: the bass player left the group and Justin Hayward and

865
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: John Lodge, who are now very dear friends of mine,

866
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: ironically had joined the band. They had played a show

867
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: in a cabaret club in the north of England where

868
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: they were basically doing go Now three times in the

869
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: set and some covers, and they played this particular place

870
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: up in Newcastle or somewhere. Justin told me this story

871
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: and after the show they're in the dressing room and

872
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: they were all wearing matching suits, shirts, ties, looking very

873
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: smart and a guy and his wife came by and

874
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: banged on the door, and they opened the door and

875
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: the guy said, he said, it's really great of your

876
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: lads to come all the way up here, but I

877
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: got to tell you you were crap. You're absolutely shiped.

878
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: You're the worst band I've ever seen in my life.

879
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: Nice to meet you by and left and the movie

880
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: Blue was got in their van to drive back to

881
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: London in total silence. They didn't speak for about four hours,

882
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: and as they getting close to London, one of them

883
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 1: said that guy's right, and they all went yeah. They

884
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: dumped everything they were doing justin and John Lodge got

885
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 1: the biggest bag of weed they could lay their hands on.

886
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: They went to Belgium and they wrote Nights in White

887
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: Satin Tuesday Afternoon and all of the songs that were

888
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: on the Days of Future Past record, which they recorded

889
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: not with the orchestra that was dubbed on afterwards, because

890
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: Decca had a new stereo system thing and they wanted

891
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: that record to be the demonstration disc for this particular

892
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 1: format that they were going to go with, so they

893
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: hired Tony Clark to do all those arrangements and it

894
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: was wasn't until the record was released that the Moody

895
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: Blues heard them, because back then nobody's consulted the act.

896
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: So anyway, I booked them. When they arrived, I go

897
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: up to the dressing room and back then nobody had

898
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: a rider. So you gave them some sausage rolls and

899
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: to create a beer and they were grateful. And I

900
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: had written on a piece of paper and felt tip

901
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: pen Moody Blues eight thirty to nine fifty to ten thirty,

902
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: because everybody did to forty five minutes. And John Lodge

903
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: and I'm going to attempt to Birmingham Accent now came

904
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: and stood behind me, and he's looking at this thing,

905
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: and he says, we don't do to forty four minutes anymore.

906
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: We do a concert. And I said, what he should

907
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: a concert? We do a concert. Now we do seventy

908
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: four minute still left to sit down, and I said,

909
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: we haven't got any chairs lift to sit on the floor.

910
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: We don't do forty four minutes. We do we do

911
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: a concertitute a concert, And to my astonishment, students sat

912
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: down and they played a concert complete with melotron. They

913
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: did the whole of that first album, and they did

914
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: two songs off the next one, one of which had

915
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: the amazing lyrics Timothy Leary is dead, No he's yeah,

916
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: you know the legend of a mind. Yeah, And I

917
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: a little light went on and I thought, well, if

918
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: I put I had two refectories that I would put

919
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: things on. I thought, well, if I put on something

920
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: in the East refectory which they can dance to, I

921
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: can put concert song here. And so the next band

922
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: I bought was Pink Floyd four a hundred fifty pounds,

923
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: and they came up and again I thought I was

924
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: getting Sid. No, said David Gilmore walked in. They had

925
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: they had got rid of? Said well, actually what happened

926
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: was they were going to play gig in Oxford and

927
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: they got to the and they had to pick him up. Last,

928
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: they went to his mum's house where Sid was living.

929
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: They pulled up outside his house and they sat in

930
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: the car for twenty minutes in silence, and then Roger,

931
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: who was driving, drove off without Sid, because David was

932
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: already in the group covering for Sid. And that's how

933
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: said Barrett left Pink Floyd. He simply wasn't picked up,

934
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: and they m they came up to home and they

935
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: played the whole of the source of Full of Secrets record,

936
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: and I was totally blown away. I thought they were

937
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: amazing so on, and I'm on a roll at this point,

938
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: so then I think, okay, I'll put the Who. So

939
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: I bought the Who had the Who three times and

940
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: that was staggering. The only band I've ever worked with

941
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: where at the end nobody applauded and nobody left. People

942
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: were stunned. They smashed everything, everything, The entire drum kit

943
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: came off the front of the stage and landed in

944
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: the audience. There were bombs going off. That's why, right.

945
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: I interviewed Roger three years ago and I realized halfway

946
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: through the interview he couldn't hear a word. I was saying,

947
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: he's completely deafening. What he calls his end whist leah,

948
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: because they back then is you know, all of the

949
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: sound came off the back line. It was a piddling

950
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: little p a and Roger had to over sing. He

951
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: had to basically shout and scream to be heard. And

952
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: I was standing on the stage right next to Pete's

953
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: Marshall stacks, two of them, one of which had no

954
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: speakers in it, so he could spear his guitar through

955
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: because he possibly going to pay for speakers. And the

956
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: noise was the sound. Well, I'll call it a noise

957
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: because Roger said to me we were trying to recreate

958
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: the sounds of war, and I said to you were

959
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: entirely successful. They were fantastic, life, fantastic. You have this

960
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: incredible run. But then you graduate with well when I graduated.

961
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: Of course, by this time I got to know quite

962
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the booker's agents in London because they

963
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: were constantly ringing me trying to sell me their crappy bands.

964
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: I had a fantastic last week. We had a charity thing,

965
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: charity week and I put on John Male's Blues Breakers

966
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: Jethro Tull with led Zeppelin as the opening act, booked

967
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: as the new Yardbirds. And I've still got the contract

968
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: and it had been crossed out and it written in

969
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: was led L E. A D. Polin which Peter had

970
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: written in um we had The Kinks and Family Family

971
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,959
Speaker 1: were the best band I put on in the entire

972
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: two years. They didn't make it in America. True incredible band,

973
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: fantastic band. So July four, with a hundred pounds, my

974
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: mom and dad I get on the train. I've got

975
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: one telephone number. I come down to London. One of

976
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: the groups I put on in the last week as

977
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: a support band was a group called Gingerbread. Their bass

978
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: player was John Wetton, the late John Wetton, who went

979
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: on to join King Crimson and Asia founded Asia with

980
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: Carl and I went down to London and within a

981
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: week I've got a band together, of which John was

982
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: the bass player and singer. And we found a rehearsal

983
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: place in South London. Lets go a little bit were

984
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: you're in the hall, how do you get your drums

985
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: to London? Or how do you find a new kid

986
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: in London? With difficulty? I got one of the bands

987
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: that I booked to stick them at the back of

988
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: the van and take them down to London. That's it,

989
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: just improvise. And I slept on a floor for about

990
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: eighteen months. Joined this group. And whose floor was it?

991
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: This was just some people I knew, I mean I

992
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: knew this. This was the one telephone number I called up.

993
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: They said, well, we don't have any rooms, but you

994
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: can sleep on the floor. So I took a sleeping

995
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: bag slept on the floor. Did they charge you for that. No, no, Bob,

996
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: they didn't judge me for that, and I um That

997
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: group within a few months metamorphosized into what became the

998
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: Average White Band. Wow, we got this horle type of

999
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: their bags of question begs how good a drummer was

1000
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: Robbie mcintogh great, it's really good. He replaced me. I

1001
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: was sacked along with John for not being Scottish. They

1002
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: wanted to have an all Scottish band. We were rehearsing,

1003
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: we hadn't. We played one show at the Marquee Club,

1004
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: which was pretty disastrous, to be honest, And in January

1005
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: of v I was summarily sacked, which was fine because

1006
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: I was sacked from what I was sacked from. Nothing. Really,

1007
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: they changed their name. They were called Mogul Thrash. Believe

1008
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: it or not. They changed their name to the Average

1009
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: White Band, got a deal with Yeah it was it

1010
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: yea Atlantic of course ya, And off they went. And

1011
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: then John left and he joined King Crimson, he joined Family. Actually,

1012
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,040
Speaker 1: all those eighteen months, are you doing things in you

1013
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: think other than drumming with the future weight average weight?

1014
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: Not in the professional money earning sense. I mean, I

1015
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: was going to see bands constantly I was completely I

1016
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: was in London. I had not been to London before

1017
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: I was. I would go to the Marquee Club five

1018
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 1: nights a week. It didn't matter what night you went,

1019
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: there would be somebody good on What were you doing

1020
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: for money? I was living off this hundred pounds that

1021
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: my parents had given me, which was which was a

1022
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: substantial sum. Then, I mean when I when I know

1023
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: you're going to come to it in a second. But

1024
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: when I started in the agency business, I was making

1025
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: five pounds a week and you could live on five

1026
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: pounds a week quite comfortably. I mean, I don't mean

1027
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: going to restaurants or anything like that, but you could survive. Okay.

1028
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: So you get sacked in January of seven, you say,

1029
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: what's your next move? Total acts. Everything in my life

1030
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: or professional life, certainly has been luck. It's been absolutely

1031
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: the biggest factor. I get sacked from the average white

1032
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: band or mugul thrash as they were. The next morning,

1033
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: I'm walking down Oxford Street and I bump into one

1034
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: of the agents who used to call me when I

1035
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: was at university. Guy called John Sherry, sadly no longer

1036
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: with us, and he said, what are you doing? And

1037
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: I said, I've just been sacked from the average white

1038
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: band for not being Scottish, and he said words which

1039
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: ring down to me over the years. I can't pay

1040
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: you anything, but would you like to come and work

1041
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 1: in the office and I'll give you half of everything

1042
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: you earn. I had nothing else going, so I go

1043
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: the next morning to the office, which turned out to

1044
01:06:54,200 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: be one room with one desk and two telephones. Uh.

1045
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: And when I get there, he says to me, by

1046
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: the way, I forgot to tell you I don't have

1047
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: any acts. You don't have any acts, he said no.

1048
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: So I started booking colleges as the buyer if you like,

1049
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: of which Holy University where I went was one. I

1050
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: got picked up card off the university and several others,

1051
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: and they would be on split commission deals, which don't

1052
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 1: happen now. So typically a college would have a dance

1053
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 1: on a Saturday night. They had a budget of a

1054
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds. They wanted a stripper, a steel band,

1055
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: and a band they could dance to, and I would

1056
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: ring around the way way they would really want a stripper.

1057
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,439
Speaker 1: That would not happen now, Yeah, you didn't. You didn't

1058
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: have those in the gigs in the UK US either okay,

1059
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: but back then I mean that was quite Yeah. We

1060
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 1: want a stripper and we want to deal band, and

1061
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: we want the band that can dance to So I

1062
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: would have a budget. I'd ring around all the agencies.

1063
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: What have you got available on the fifth of May

1064
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: five pounds? They would tell me they pick it either

1065
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: sell them on this act or they'd pick an act.

1066
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: And I would go back to the agent and then

1067
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: say they can only afford a hundred and you've done

1068
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 1: the deal, and I'd get five five pounds on that.

1069
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 1: So that went on for a bit and then in

1070
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: March of one of the two phones ran and this

1071
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: was a bit like the fastest gunfighter in the West,

1072
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: who could get the phone fastest. I grabbed the phone

1073
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: and a voice came on and I won't do his accent,

1074
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: and he said, this is Miles as Copeland the Third

1075
01:08:54,640 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: And I went, holy shit, Miles ax Copeland the Third Wow.

1076
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 1: And he said, would anybody they ever interested in booking

1077
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: a band called Wishbone Ash. Now, the previous week I

1078
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: had read a letter on the back of the Melody

1079
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: Maker on the letters page extolling the virtues of this

1080
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 1: group Wishbone Ash, which I later found out Miles had

1081
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: written under a pseudonym, so based entirely on that, I

1082
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 1: said to him yes, and he was completely flummo. He

1083
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: had been ringing everybody for weeks and he'd got and

1084
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: I said yes. Long story short. I go up to

1085
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: a house and St John's Wood in North London, which

1086
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 1: was a very posh area of London where the Copeland

1087
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: family lived when his dad was in the CIA was

1088
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: or he'd retired from the CIA at that point, and

1089
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: I went down that I was going to go and

1090
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 1: see them play in this house. And I come down

1091
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: the drive and there are a group of about half

1092
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: a dozen Arabs in full ceremonial s going up the

1093
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 1: front stairs, and I thought I must be at the

1094
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 1: wrong house. So I walked back down the drive and

1095
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: I suddenly heard from coming out of the basement, and

1096
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: I realized what happened was that Myles's father was advising

1097
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: various oil companies on the political situation in the Middle

1098
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 1: East as his post ci CI a job, and down

1099
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: in the basement which Bone Ash were rehearsing. So I

1100
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: went down met the band. They played me the whole

1101
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: of their first album sitting in armchairs, which was the

1102
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,759
Speaker 1: first I've never seen a band player a gig sitting

1103
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 1: in an armchair. And I asked Miles if I could

1104
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: use the phone to call John, and he led me

1105
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: to a pay phone. They had obviously read John Paul

1106
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: get his biography because they had installed a pay phone

1107
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: for guests, and I had to borrow tenpence off him

1108
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:56,600
Speaker 1: to use the phone. And I called John up and

1109
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: I said we should take this band on. They're really good.

1110
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: And they were in London College that following Saturday and

1111
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: we went to see them. Miles was doing the lights.

1112
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: He didn't have any overhead lights. He had a run

1113
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: of foot footlights and he had a green boulbon orange

1114
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: bowl of red bulbon pint bulb and he had four

1115
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: things and he was just doing this on the side

1116
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: of the stage and we took them on and then

1117
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: short order Miles came into the business. We all went

1118
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 1: into business together. They kind of took off a bit.

1119
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: They signed to m c A. Within within eighteen months

1120
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: we had like the third or fourth biggest agency in London.

1121
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: I've just just work just working at it. What happened

1122
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: are your drumming career? Well, to make up my money,

1123
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,799
Speaker 1: I joined a fantastic soul band. They were called Patrick

1124
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 1: Dane and the front line we had a four piece

1125
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: brass section, great layers, and we played four or five

1126
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: nights a week. We played American basses, colleges, around London clubs, everything,

1127
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: and we would get all of the London clubs then

1128
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: paid twenty pounds. That was the maximum you could get

1129
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: in any one of the famous This was just post

1130
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,719
Speaker 1: the Swinging sixties, so called the Swinging sixties didn't actually

1131
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 1: get started in London until about nineteen sixty five sixty six,

1132
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: and it kind of rolled over to about nineteen seventy

1133
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 1: three four. We would play those anywhere between a Monday

1134
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: and a Thursday, and on a Friday and Saturday. If

1135
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: we played an American bass, we would get a hundred

1136
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: and fifty pounds. If we played a college we would

1137
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 1: get probably about the same. And when we played the

1138
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: American bassis, because we had to play for dining as

1139
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: well as dancing, we've learned the whole catalog of Duke

1140
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: Allington and big band stuff, which that's what they what

1141
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: they wanted, and we always got rebooked always, so you

1142
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: have this flurishing agency. How did you become a manager? Well,

1143
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:18,759
Speaker 1: I I traveled through several agencies um in the next

1144
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: let's see five years, sorry, five or six years, and

1145
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: I ended up at Names, which was Brian Epstein's old company,

1146
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: although he'd long gone, and I was working with Steve

1147
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: Barnett recently retired retired president with Capitol Records. We haven't

1148
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: seen him many years. And if you're watching this, hello

1149
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: Steve and m We And that was when I kind

1150
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 1: of hit I'm going to loosely call it the big

1151
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:52,799
Speaker 1: time because we had big acts. We had deep Purple Black, Sabbath, Nazareth, Alex, Harvey,

1152
01:13:52,880 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 1: band Elton. I did the first British stroke European tours

1153
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: with Steely dan Um and then I had oh sorry,

1154
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: just before that, the person who kind of had was

1155
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: my I would call him my mentor. We all need

1156
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: a mentor in life was Barry Marshall, who now runs

1157
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: Martial Arts. And when I went to work with Barry

1158
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: and his wife Jenny, and they're probably one of the

1159
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: most successful and certainly one of the best promoters in

1160
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 1: UK and Europe. Um We. He was managing a Welsh

1161
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 1: group called Man who were a bit like a British

1162
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: kind of grateful dead in the sense that they played

1163
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: numbers that lasted for several days and I think, I

1164
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: think I've been there a week and I put twenty

1165
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 1: eight gigs in in a month for this group. Man um.

1166
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: I just had a sense of how to do it.

1167
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,480
Speaker 1: If I went about something, I think, if you're enthusiastic

1168
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: about something, you can communicate that to people. And we

1169
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: were doing we we were doing. It was the first

1170
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: place I've been where we were doing American acts, and

1171
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 1: we did people like Jimmy ruffin lou Christie if you

1172
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 1: remember him, of course, Lightning Strikes, Trightening Strikes. And I

1173
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: got a real feel for working with black American artists,

1174
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: which was quite a I mean, I remember he sent

1175
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: me off to Europe. I think this was about the

1176
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three or four with the con Tina Turner review,

1177
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: which was my first encounter with Ike Turner, which was okay,

1178
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: actually no problem, and I got I've known Tina since then.

1179
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: And then I moved to names and as I say,

1180
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: we were looking after what were big acts at the time.

1181
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: But again coming back to something I said earlier, they

1182
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 1: didn't tour they gigged. Everybody gigged. Nobody had a beginning

1183
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: in the middle of an end. It was just continual,

1184
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 1: and they didn't go into the studio for a period

1185
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 1: of time. They went in for a few hours at

1186
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: a time and cobbled together records and it was all

1187
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: pretty kind of it's kind of primitive, but it was.

1188
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: It was huge fun, definitely fantastic fun. And then how

1189
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 1: does that turn into the management. Well, I had no

1190
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: aspirations to do management, but I of course I was

1191
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: dealing with at this point quite a lot of managers.

1192
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: And I have to say that back then managers were

1193
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: not quite as skilled as they've become. Um. In fact,

1194
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:54,600
Speaker 1: some of them were. I mean I can remember with

1195
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: Deep Purple, h this was the Mark two with Richie

1196
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 1: and In Squabbling and Roger and in Pace and John

1197
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: Lord bless him. I remember their manager coming into the

1198
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,599
Speaker 1: office and saying to Steve and I write, Deep Purple,

1199
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: who have got a new album coming out next week. Now,

1200
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 1: this was the first time that we've been informed that

1201
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: they had made a record. They want to go on tour.

1202
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: So we got our notepads and we're ready to go.

1203
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 1: And I said to him when do you want to start?

1204
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:31,679
Speaker 1: And he says next week and I said next week, Yeah,

1205
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 1: next week. That's how it was. How it was, and

1206
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: um what happened was that through a convoluted set of circumstances,

1207
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 1: I had got to know a guy called Ken Kushnick,

1208
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: who was the general manager at Sire Records in seventy six.

1209
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: I think it was the Sex Pistols clash and the

1210
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: British punk's scene got underway. I might have my chronology

1211
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: slightly wrong, uh, And Ken called me up and asked

1212
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,799
Speaker 1: me if I would put a tour together for the Ramones,

1213
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 1: who I had never heard of, but given the way

1214
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 1: things were, I just said yes. And then he said

1215
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 1: to me there's another act on with them, and I'm thinking, well,

1216
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard enough to get the Ramones attorney.

1217
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: I said, who's that? He said, they're called the Talking Heads,

1218
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 1: and I said, wow, what's weird name. Anyway, he sent

1219
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 1: me a single It's called Love Ghost Building on Fire

1220
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: and it only had a photograph of three of them

1221
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: on the front. Jerry Harrison wasn't in the group at

1222
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 1: that point, and I remember putting it on the record

1223
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 1: player at Names and I thought it was great. I

1224
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 1: loved it, so I I agreed to set up a

1225
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: tour for the two those two acts, which I did,

1226
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 1: and it was a hard sell. Was six weeks mostly

1227
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: around the UK, few dates in Europe. Just before that

1228
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: tour happened, the Sex Pistols went on British TV and

1229
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 1: disgraced themselves by swearing on a six thirty live slot,

1230
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 1: and this caused tabloid fury, but it turned the punk

1231
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 1: new age thing from being like a really underground thing

1232
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 1: into being very kind of prominent. Now that all of

1233
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: the Pistol shows pretty much got canceled because every town hall,

1234
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: every council said we're not having them, their filthy revolution

1235
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: and all this, but it meant that. It meant that

1236
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: the Romans talking heads to Her suddenly sold out everywhere,

1237
01:19:56,160 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: so they came over. I remember we started in Geneva

1238
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 1: and I immediately bonded with the talking heads as people,

1239
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: and they asked me to leave the ends and manage them.

1240
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: And I didn't have enough courage to be honest. I couldn't.

1241
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: I just think I knew enough. What happened then was

1242
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: another piece of luck. I happened to be out at

1243
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 1: Heathrow airport picking up a friend, a girlfriend who worked

1244
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: at United Artists Records, and she was and she had

1245
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,639
Speaker 1: just been on a promo johnt to Holland with Jerry

1246
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: Rafferty and Baker Street was becoming a big hit. So

1247
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 1: I got got a lift and I got in the

1248
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 1: front of the car with the driver, and she and

1249
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: Rafferty got in the back of the car and I

1250
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:03,560
Speaker 1: was just rattling awhile like I am to you and

1251
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 1: we're coming into London, and Rafferty tapped me on the shoulder.

1252
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: I've never met him before and he said, ed, would

1253
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: you be my manager? And I just turned around and

1254
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 1: I said, you don't know me. He said no, but

1255
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:22,599
Speaker 1: I like you, so okay, So I became Jerry Raffort's manager. Okay,

1256
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 1: that's a question. Did he have a previous manager? What

1257
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: had happened? Well, yes, he had had when he was

1258
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: in Steeler's Wheel that had led to law suits at

1259
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: all the rest of it, and the Baker Street song

1260
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: happened to be the street where his lawyer's office was,

1261
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,439
Speaker 1: and he was constantly coming down from Scotland. And if

1262
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 1: you listen to the lyric, and you know that that

1263
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 1: song is about his trips to London, sitting in lawyers

1264
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: meetings for hours on end while they tried to dissolve

1265
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 1: because what happened was the management company had gone bankrupt.

1266
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 1: That had to be a liquidation process, and this all

1267
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: took two years and he couldn't he could word live,

1268
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: but he steamers Will broke up and he wrote the

1269
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: songs which became the City to City record, one of

1270
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 1: which was Baker Street. So but but his concept of

1271
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: what he meant by his manager was rather different to

1272
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: what I thought it was. I never bet. I made

1273
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: no money of him at all, except from some touring

1274
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: that he did, and I didn't participate in the records

1275
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: or song publishing. And I didn't have enough knowledge or

1276
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: courage to even ask. And here anyway, he had a

1277
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: lawyer who was famous. His lawyer was so slow that

1278
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 1: he would do management agreements with people that might last

1279
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: five years and they would have run out by the

1280
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 1: time he'd finished the paperwork. So it was academic anyway.

1281
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: But the thing about Jerry was he opened a lot

1282
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 1: of doors for me, and I ended up working with

1283
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 1: him for about five or six years. But sadly he

1284
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: was an alcoholic and it killed him in the end,

1285
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: and we had a very bumpy time because he canceled

1286
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 1: five American tours on me, one of which was on sale,

1287
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,560
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So but it was all a

1288
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 1: learning exercise. All of this. I was learning as you

1289
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: as you go along. You could even out of every

1290
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: negative situation, you can come out of it. You'll have

1291
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:30,240
Speaker 1: learned something. You were also booking bands while you were

1292
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: managing jury. I was still at ends Um And what

1293
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 1: happened was that I was working with him and I

1294
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 1: had a Talking Heads tour coming up in January, which

1295
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 1: was the first time they were going to headline on

1296
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 1: their own in the UK, some Bits and Pieces of Europe,

1297
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: and I needed an opening act. And it was December ninth,

1298
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 1: and it was a Friday afternoon. I remember my phone

1299
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: rang and a guy that I had met at Phonogram

1300
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: because PolyGram or Phonogram originally were distributed side records until

1301
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: they until Seymour switched to Warner Brothers. So I got

1302
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: to know the people at Phonogram and I bailed bailed

1303
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,559
Speaker 1: them out on a couple of things, saved them quite

1304
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: a bit of money because Seymour was quite good at

1305
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: extracting money from and this guy came on. His name

1306
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 1: was John Stains, and he said to me, I've just

1307
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 1: signed a band called Dire Straits. And I immediately said,

1308
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: what a terrible name, and he said, be serious. I said,

1309
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 1: I am being serious. It's a terrible name. He said,

1310
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,320
Speaker 1: would you be their agent? I said, well, I'm only

1311
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: handling American acts, I said, but in the back of

1312
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 1: my mind I needed an opening act for this Talking

1313
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: Heads tour and it was coming up quite soon, and

1314
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 1: I was in a bit of a panic, and I

1315
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 1: said to him, what are they like? And he said, well,

1316
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: I've got a tape here. Why don't you come over

1317
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,799
Speaker 1: and listen to it. Now their officers were very close

1318
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:17,639
Speaker 1: to where NAMES was, so I packed up for the day,

1319
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: walked over and he played me the demo tape that

1320
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 1: had originally got them the record deal, the one that

1321
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 1: a DJ called Charlie Gillett had played on British on

1322
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 1: his British Radio London radio show. And on that record

1323
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: on that tape were Sultans have Swing down to the

1324
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: Waterline while west End and a song called Sacred Loving.

1325
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 1: But thankfully they didn't record and I can remember. It's

1326
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 1: funny what you remember later on, because I can't remember

1327
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,600
Speaker 1: listening to Sultans of Swing and saying to him this,

1328
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 1: this guitar player is pretty good. And then he's playing

1329
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 1: me Wild West End and I said, wow, these lyrics,

1330
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 1: this is really good lyrically. He said that's the guitar

1331
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,759
Speaker 1: player and I said, Doug, tell me he's the singer

1332
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 1: as well, and he went, yeat and he gave me

1333
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 1: the lineup of the group and the mark younger brother

1334
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: David was in the group. John Ellsley and picked with

1335
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: us and they were playing a gig the following Tuesday

1336
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,719
Speaker 1: at ding Walls, which is a little club in North London,

1337
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:20,600
Speaker 1: and he said typical record company said I'll take you

1338
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: out for a slap up meal and we'll go and

1339
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 1: see them. So the following Tuesday I find myself in

1340
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 1: a kibab house in North London watching gobbits of fat

1341
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 1: fall off this spinning piece of meat. And we went

1342
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: over the road to ding Walls and we walked in

1343
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: and there were two things I noticed straight away. First

1344
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 1: of all, they weren't very loud, so I could stand

1345
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:49,760
Speaker 1: quite close to the stage. Secondly, and most importantly, Mark

1346
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: was playing a red Fender Stratocastic guitar, which was the

1347
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,759
Speaker 1: guitar that Hank Marvin the guitarist and the Shadows had played.

1348
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: Now I've told this story to Jeff Beck and um

1349
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 1: They've Gilmore and all the rest of them, and they

1350
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,000
Speaker 1: all instantly get it. Because the red strap was an

1351
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: iconic instrument for us in Britain. The first stratic caster

1352
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 1: any of us had seen was on the cover of

1353
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 1: the Chirping Crickets album and Buddy Holly is holding a

1354
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 1: strap which looked to us like something from outer space.

1355
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 1: So Mark's playing this red strato caster. And I turned

1356
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:33,640
Speaker 1: to this an our guy after the second song and

1357
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 1: I said to him, he's got a red strat just

1358
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 1: like Hank Marvin's. Who's managing this band? And he said

1359
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: nobody on on the basis of the red strat, I said,

1360
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: I'd like to manage them. And it changed my life.

1361
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: But there was a there's a kind of you know

1362
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 1: pattern there. There was a sort of just a sequence

1363
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 1: of events that led to that moment. Okay, now we

1364
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 1: know that they were on Warner in the US and

1365
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Phonogram the rest of the world, certainly from the US viewpoint.

1366
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:14,640
Speaker 1: First album comes out, Sultan's a Swing uh, and then

1367
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 1: the second album is not as quite as successful that

1368
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, making movies that starts to blow

1369
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 1: up from the inside. What is going on? Well, the

1370
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:30,839
Speaker 1: first record, like many many many bands throughout history, Market

1371
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: spent considerable amount of time writing those songs. He I

1372
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: can't remember what year it was, seventy five or seventy six,

1373
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: but he bent to America and he'd got on a

1374
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 1: Greyhound bus try trip across the South, and as he

1375
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 1: said to me later, he fell in love with every

1376
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:53,479
Speaker 1: waitress that he saw. And he wrote a lot of

1377
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 1: those songs either in the U s or when he

1378
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 1: got back to the UK, and a lot of them,

1379
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 1: as as has always been the case with his writing,

1380
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 1: were sort of semi biographical. So for instance, songs of swing,

1381
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: they were that that was the name of a band

1382
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 1: playing in a little pub just down the road from

1383
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: this dreadful apartment that he and John was sharing, David

1384
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 1: was sharing, uh, And he went down to see them

1385
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 1: and they were like a little swing band, like the

1386
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:24,479
Speaker 1: Panama Francis Saltons and swing the American band. And there

1387
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 1: was nobody in the place, but he was impressed with

1388
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 1: their enthusiasm and went back to the flat and he

1389
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: wrote the song. So he had these songs. And what

1390
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:36,919
Speaker 1: happened was that after I had seen them at Dingwalls,

1391
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:40,760
Speaker 1: I put them on this Talking Heads tour, which, like

1392
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 1: most of my tours, was like twenty seven gigs without

1393
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 1: a day off, because I don't believe in days off.

1394
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:51,600
Speaker 1: They're just days days off one of those and I

1395
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: went on a lot of these dates, A because I

1396
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 1: was looking after both bands, and B because I wanted

1397
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:00,600
Speaker 1: to get to know my kind of new charges. So

1398
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: I became very familiar with those songs. And right in

1399
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:09,600
Speaker 1: the middle of that tour, Um John Stains the Air

1400
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 1: and R guy I'm talking about I was talking about,

1401
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 1: came up with a couple of possible producers, one of

1402
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 1: which was Muff Winward and Steve's elder brother. Elder brother,

1403
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 1: and Muff was working at Ireland Records at the time.

1404
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 1: He was about to leave. He had a two week

1405
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 1: window and then he was starting as head of an

1406
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,680
Speaker 1: R at CBS as they were, so he came to

1407
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 1: see them at a show in a place called Aylesbury

1408
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 1: north of London, agreed to produce them and fitted them

1409
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 1: into that gap. There's a lot of kind of synchronicity

1410
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 1: going on here. So he he did that record in

1411
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 1: ten days. And what he basically did was he recorded

1412
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:07,560
Speaker 1: their lives just bashpreash, bash breash brash. We got. Of

1413
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: course the album cover took way longer and was and

1414
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 1: was and was. The was the was the source of many,

1415
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:18,760
Speaker 1: many many arguments and fights and stuff, particularly between the

1416
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 1: two brothers. And I realized actually at that point that

1417
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: rather like the Kicks and the Gallaghers and others, the

1418
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:29,160
Speaker 1: sibling thing was going to be a bit of a headache,

1419
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: which it turned out to be. But so they made

1420
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 1: that record, and I and they finished it, and I

1421
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: had them. I just kept them working because that was

1422
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: how they were making money. The record deal was not

1423
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:48,200
Speaker 1: a particularly good deal. The royalty rate was pretty poor,

1424
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 1: but it was for the time, I suppose it was okay.

1425
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 1: And they so I and I put them on I

1426
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,200
Speaker 1: got them a residency at the Marquee Club and I

1427
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 1: put them on a kind of club college tour for

1428
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: the whole of June of that year, and the record

1429
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: came out in May. Sultan's came out in May, dribbled

1430
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: into the bottom of the UK chart and fell straight out.

1431
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: The album did okay, we didn't have the American deal

1432
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: at the time. There was an unusual thing in their

1433
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:27,639
Speaker 1: recording agreement that the PolyGram one the phonogram one, which

1434
01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: said that if R s O passed on them the

1435
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 1: rights to place the record, the deal in America would

1436
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: refer to the group which went Me and I had

1437
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: never done a record deal in my life. I had

1438
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 1: never read a recording agreement. I had never been in

1439
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 1: a recording studio. I didn't know anything about any of that.

1440
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: R s O passed because they were in the middle

1441
01:32:55,000 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 1: of Saturday night fever at al and uh So the

1442
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 1: band did a club college tour in June, and then

1443
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: uh Mark and I came over to the States. We

1444
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:19,799
Speaker 1: went to Los Angeles and I we had some interest

1445
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 1: from Colombia, but we wanted to be on Warner Brothers

1446
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: because we were musical snobs and they had Van Morrison

1447
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: and just Ricky Lee Jones was just about to come

1448
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: out and things like that. And I went up to

1449
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: uh I managed to get somebody got me, got me

1450
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 1: an intro to Mo Austin, and I'm like, I don't

1451
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,160
Speaker 1: know what the I really didn't know. I'm not know

1452
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:49,360
Speaker 1: what I was doing and I went up to Warner

1453
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:53,719
Speaker 1: Brothers and I got I was ushered into Moe's office,

1454
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: which was the most intimidating physical space I've ever been in.

1455
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 1: I mean, he's it's part from anything else that was enormous,

1456
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: and his desk was so far away that you had

1457
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: to sort of it took you five minutes to get

1458
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:12,800
Speaker 1: from the door to his desk. And anyway, he he

1459
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 1: said something great to me. Actually, I always I love

1460
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:19,160
Speaker 1: MO and he's still with us, thankfully. He said to me,

1461
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about music, go and see the

1462
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: A and R Department, which of course was not true

1463
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:32,240
Speaker 1: at all, but he did come from the Sinatra reprise background,

1464
01:34:33,880 --> 01:34:37,679
Speaker 1: and he sent me down to see the sadly late ROBERTA. Peterson.

1465
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:42,960
Speaker 1: When I went into Roberta's office, she had more pot

1466
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 1: plants in there than I've never seen in my life.

1467
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,800
Speaker 1: And and this is a little girl with the kind

1468
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:53,639
Speaker 1: of required l a tan and blonde hair sitting amongst

1469
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 1: all of these palms and pot plants. And I remember

1470
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 1: giving other record and she put it on and like

1471
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:04,320
Speaker 1: a lot of A and R people cranked it was

1472
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 1: spinal tap up. It went to eleven and I'm sitting

1473
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: there and this thing's thundering out. And she told me

1474
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 1: later she was so excited by it that she tried

1475
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 1: to pretend she tried to be cool, but I could

1476
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:21,040
Speaker 1: see her at her foot tapping madly underneath the desk.

1477
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,519
Speaker 1: And when it when she played both sides, she said

1478
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 1: to me, where are you staying? And I was sadly

1479
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 1: we were staying at the high at the Riot House.

1480
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: And I remember she was vastly amused by that, and

1481
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:39,280
Speaker 1: she asked if she could keep that copy because she'd

1482
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:40,640
Speaker 1: like to play it to some of the people in

1483
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 1: the department. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, sure,

1484
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:49,519
Speaker 1: why not. Wow. So I go back to the hotel,

1485
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:55,400
Speaker 1: and by this time there were a couple of other

1486
01:35:55,479 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 1: companies who started chasing me. The American PolyGram Opera Asian

1487
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,880
Speaker 1: had realized what a do do they've made by putting

1488
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 1: this clause in and they and actually that was the

1489
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 1: first time I was ever offered a bribe. I was

1490
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:16,720
Speaker 1: offered a bribe in a sauna in somewhere in Los

1491
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:20,640
Speaker 1: Angeles by some guy from PolyGram in New York. He

1492
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 1: offered me a hundred thousand dollars to get the band

1493
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: to forget about that clause in the contract, and I

1494
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 1: thought he was offering us an advance. I kept saying

1495
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: to him, you mean for the band, and he said, no,

1496
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: it's for you. They kept winking at me, and we're

1497
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:37,799
Speaker 1: in a sauna and I was sitting on the slatted

1498
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,200
Speaker 1: and he was on top of me, and we were

1499
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 1: getting further and further back, so we were he was

1500
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 1: lying on top of me, and I managed to wriggle

1501
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 1: out from under him make a dash for the door.

1502
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 1: Never heard from them again. Unfortunately, Warner's decided to sign us.

1503
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: And what I didn't know there was another lady who

1504
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 1: was also sadly passed on, called Karen Burg, who was

1505
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 1: in the in our department in New York, who worked

1506
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 1: alongside Jerry Wexler, and she had been to England and

1507
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 1: she'd seen them at a little club gig and was

1508
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 1: also pursuing them, and being a big company, they hadn't

1509
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:22,759
Speaker 1: actually spoken to each other, so they didn't realize. Roberta

1510
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 1: didn't realize that Karen was already onto it. But anyway,

1511
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 1: we ended up doing the deal with them, and it

1512
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:33,120
Speaker 1: turned out to be a very happy and a very

1513
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:40,360
Speaker 1: fruitful relationship. Okay, how does the essence of dire Streets

1514
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 1: end up working with Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan, okay, we

1515
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: do the first American tour in February March April of

1516
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:57,799
Speaker 1: seventy nine. The albums at number two. The Doobie Brothers

1517
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 1: kept us soft number one with Michael McDonald. Sultan's gets

1518
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 1: the number two, I think it was. And I had

1519
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:10,800
Speaker 1: decided one of the things I was trying to do

1520
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:14,080
Speaker 1: with them live or any act I've worked with, was

1521
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 1: create an event one and we were being offered I

1522
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 1: remember Ron Del's and had got hold of my home

1523
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:24,160
Speaker 1: phone number and offered as Madison Square Garden and I

1524
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:28,680
Speaker 1: turned it down flat. And there were two reasons. I

1525
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:31,639
Speaker 1: knew the band were not ready to play a place

1526
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: that big. They hadn't played anywhere bigger than three thousand

1527
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 1: capacity at that point. And I also knew that as

1528
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:45,560
Speaker 1: the line up existed at the time with David K.

1529
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: Nofler in it, it wasn't what they didn't really perform.

1530
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 1: If you understand, they would kind of a bit rooted

1531
01:38:56,040 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 1: to the spot mark would throw off mount sense of sweat,

1532
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 1: which is where the head band came from. But uh so,

1533
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: I what I did was I stuck with a club,

1534
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:12,559
Speaker 1: small theater. So we played, for instance, The Bottom Line

1535
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,920
Speaker 1: in New York for four nights, and we played The

1536
01:39:16,040 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 1: Roxy in l A. At the end. When we were

1537
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:23,160
Speaker 1: at the Roxy, we'd already moved on to selecting a

1538
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: producer for album number two and who should step forward

1539
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:30,600
Speaker 1: because he could certainly recognize a dollar bill when it

1540
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 1: appeared in front of him. But Jerry Wexler, and Jerry

1541
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 1: who was going to m sorry, he'd already done the

1542
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:46,719
Speaker 1: second record. That's right, we did the second record before

1543
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 1: we came to America. He brought Dylan to one of

1544
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 1: the shows, and of course Marks huge puge Dylan fan.

1545
01:39:57,400 --> 01:40:00,360
Speaker 1: So they met and there was an interesting little aside

1546
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:02,439
Speaker 1: to this. While they were up we were in that

1547
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:05,640
Speaker 1: place on the rocks upstairs, and I was chatting to

1548
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,720
Speaker 1: Dylan's mate and I kind of said to him, I

1549
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 1: said to him, well, what band are you in? And

1550
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:11,920
Speaker 1: he said, oh, I'm not in a band. I'm with

1551
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 1: the Children of God. And I went, oh, really, I've

1552
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:21,600
Speaker 1: not heard of him. So this made no didn't. This

1553
01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 1: came into play a little while later. So anyway, we

1554
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:30,760
Speaker 1: finished that tour and Jerry had got Mark and our

1555
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 1: original drama pick with us to go down to Muscle

1556
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:39,600
Speaker 1: Shoals to make Slow Train Coming. Now, just before that,

1557
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:43,360
Speaker 1: Mark was rehearsing out in Santa Monica at Dylan's place

1558
01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:45,840
Speaker 1: and he called me up in London and he said, ed,

1559
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 1: He said, all these songs are about God, and I

1560
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 1: suddenly remembered the guy at the rock scene. And of

1561
01:40:54,640 --> 01:41:00,799
Speaker 1: course Bob had become born again, which which Jerry, being Jewish,

1562
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 1: couldn't get his head round at all. Jerry would constantly spit.

1563
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:10,640
Speaker 1: That was his thing, was spitting. So I didn't go

1564
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:13,639
Speaker 1: down there. I was too busy with the next phase

1565
01:41:13,720 --> 01:41:15,519
Speaker 1: of what was going on. But they went down to

1566
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:21,040
Speaker 1: Muscle Shoals and I flew over to New York. I

1567
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:23,639
Speaker 1: called Mark up and I said, oh, I'll be down tomorrow.

1568
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:26,360
Speaker 1: He said, don't bother coming. I said why not. He said,

1569
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: we're finished and I said, but you've only been there

1570
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 1: five days. He said, Bob only plays a song twice.

1571
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: So I kicked my heels for a few days and

1572
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 1: went back to England and he followed fairly quickly after that,

1573
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 1: and that became the Slow Train Coming record, and that

1574
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: was you know, Bob's kind of born again announcement if

1575
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 1: you like, but a great record irrelevant of the guy. Yeah, yeah,

1576
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,720
Speaker 1: So how do you get rid of of the other? Why?

1577
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 1: You got some good questions? And the thing that the

1578
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 1: situation between the two brothers was difficult from the get go.

1579
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 1: It became increasingly difficult as the band got bigger, um

1580
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:32,200
Speaker 1: because Mark was emerging as a dictator. And I don't

1581
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,920
Speaker 1: say that in a negative way. I think all bands

1582
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 1: needed dictator. Basically, the democracies and bands just don't work.

1583
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:47,880
Speaker 1: And David, who of course well as David said, I

1584
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:50,400
Speaker 1: remember in an interview afterwards, he said, it was pretty

1585
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 1: tough having my brother constantly telling me what to do.

1586
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:59,240
Speaker 1: And the problem also was that Mark was Mark and

1587
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:03,320
Speaker 1: Pick with it us were equally matched in their talent

1588
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 1: on their instruments. Pick was probably the best drummer we

1589
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:11,760
Speaker 1: ever had and they and John was very solid as

1590
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,679
Speaker 1: a bass player. And John did all of the band's

1591
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:19,559
Speaker 1: business with me, and he stopped them breaking up certainly

1592
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:22,479
Speaker 1: in the earlier years because he was always very sort

1593
01:43:22,520 --> 01:43:26,920
Speaker 1: of sensible, as that's his personality. We got to doing

1594
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,479
Speaker 1: the making movies record in New York at the Power

1595
01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 1: Station with Jimmy Iven and Shelley Akas and there was

1596
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:40,360
Speaker 1: a they were recording Romeo and Juliette and there was

1597
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 1: just a huge row, I mean like a total nuclear

1598
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 1: mega row. And it ended up with David leaving the group.

1599
01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: He wasn't fired, it just wasn't working. So he came

1600
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:03,759
Speaker 1: back to England and Mark finished up the guitar parts

1601
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 1: and said mcguinnis who was on that with the Paul

1602
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:10,160
Speaker 1: Schaefer band on Letterman Show. He did a bit of

1603
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 1: guitar work on it as well. It just ran out

1604
01:44:14,439 --> 01:44:17,880
Speaker 1: of steam. If if he not left, the group would

1605
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:21,400
Speaker 1: have disintegrated, and he was cool with what he missed

1606
01:44:21,400 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 1: out on. I can't answer that question. I mean, I

1607
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 1: haven't really had much to do with him. It was

1608
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,920
Speaker 1: a situation where I couldn't. I couldn't carry on working

1609
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:36,560
Speaker 1: with him. The first of all, I didn't consider he

1610
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:40,720
Speaker 1: was talented enough, and secondly, the sibling thing meant it

1611
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:44,040
Speaker 1: just in part it was just impossible. But I don't know,

1612
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't know whether he regrets it. I said he

1613
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:52,160
Speaker 1: received one quarter of the royalties on the first three albums,

1614
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:56,000
Speaker 1: first two albums, so he did okay financially okay. Ultimately

1615
01:44:56,120 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 1: the band is going up. Meanwhile MTV becomes role Lide phenomena.

1616
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:06,879
Speaker 1: The band cuts money for nothing before the record is released.

1617
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,280
Speaker 1: Do you know you have this monster? And how do

1618
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:13,600
Speaker 1: you end up making the video? And also how do

1619
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 1: you get stinged on the intro? Right? Okay, um, The

1620
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 1: answer to the first part of that question is that

1621
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:27,759
Speaker 1: you never know anybody who says they can spot ahead.

1622
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,360
Speaker 1: To me, it's they've got their heads up their backsides.

1623
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:34,120
Speaker 1: Nobody knows what is going to be successful. They only

1624
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 1: know what has been successful. So people do sequels, and

1625
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 1: they do copies and so on. What happened with that

1626
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:48,320
Speaker 1: one was that after the Love of Gold record, which

1627
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 1: was huge everywhere except the US because it only had

1628
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 1: five tracks on it. And I must tell you there's

1629
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 1: a song on they called Telegraph Road, which I think

1630
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:02,360
Speaker 1: runs from about fifteen minutes one of yeah it is

1631
01:46:02,479 --> 01:46:04,720
Speaker 1: and Warn Brill has actually did a two and a

1632
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:08,720
Speaker 1: half minute edit that said to me, can we put

1633
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:12,040
Speaker 1: this out? And I remember saying to Carl Scott bless him.

1634
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 1: I said, it's Carl that be silly. So we didn't

1635
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:18,519
Speaker 1: have a hit single of that. Private Investigations was a

1636
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 1: huge hit all over the rest of the world, I

1637
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:24,559
Speaker 1: must say, to my considerable surprise since that's seven minutes long.

1638
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:30,280
Speaker 1: And what happened was we did another great long tour.

1639
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:35,200
Speaker 1: All these records, all these albums were accompanied by huge tours, yes,

1640
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:37,719
Speaker 1: but there was a point where you literally were playing

1641
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:41,320
Speaker 1: stadiums and you were literally the biggest touring act in

1642
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:46,000
Speaker 1: the world. And just a just coming to that in

1643
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:52,600
Speaker 1: your your chronology. What happened was that Mark started to

1644
01:46:52,720 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 1: do a couple of other things. I mean, we did

1645
01:46:54,920 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 1: the soundtracks for Local Hero and cal around about the

1646
01:47:01,080 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: time of Love Over with gold Um with producer David Putnam,

1647
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 1: who was an absolute delight to work with, and Um.

1648
01:47:12,240 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 1: Somewhere in all of that we had a live album

1649
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:22,439
Speaker 1: out called Alchemy, and he was started producing other people Um,

1650
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 1: and we got to a point. I remember he and

1651
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:29,240
Speaker 1: I we were in a car. We've been at film

1652
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 1: Man's and Era's studio. We were driving back up to

1653
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:35,360
Speaker 1: London and he said, I've got some songs together. This

1654
01:47:35,479 --> 01:47:39,280
Speaker 1: would have been in late eighty four. He said, can

1655
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:42,760
Speaker 1: you get the band back together? And those turned out

1656
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:46,360
Speaker 1: to be the songs that became the Brothers in Arms record.

1657
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:50,680
Speaker 1: And I remember going down to a rehearsal and I

1658
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:55,560
Speaker 1: heard money for Nothing for the first time. What what

1659
01:47:55,680 --> 01:47:57,559
Speaker 1: struck me about it was I've done the first ever

1660
01:47:57,680 --> 01:48:04,840
Speaker 1: European tour with zz Top and I remember thinking that

1661
01:48:05,080 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 1: he probably had I don't know this, but I kind

1662
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:12,640
Speaker 1: of detected a bit of Billy Gibbons guitar sound on

1663
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:16,240
Speaker 1: that particular song. Did I think it was going to

1664
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:20,240
Speaker 1: be a big hit? I thought it might be do well,

1665
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:23,800
Speaker 1: but I had no I did had no idea it

1666
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 1: was going to do that. Records done about that album

1667
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:31,360
Speaker 1: has done about thirty six million physical sales. So UM,

1668
01:48:33,760 --> 01:48:38,599
Speaker 1: we've we we decided to go to Monsterrat to Georgea's studio.

1669
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:45,280
Speaker 1: UM made it mainly for the Sun and I remember

1670
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:52,400
Speaker 1: going over there and we didn't know even though Sting

1671
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:56,360
Speaker 1: was on the island now Mark and Stein. We've all

1672
01:48:56,439 --> 01:48:59,000
Speaker 1: known each other for many many years when the Straight

1673
01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:01,519
Speaker 1: started out the place he started out, and of course

1674
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:06,920
Speaker 1: I've known Miles Fat Miles is fact checking fact checking

1675
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:08,840
Speaker 1: his book with me and a couple of months ago

1676
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 1: because you've got a book coming out soon, and uh,

1677
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:17,320
Speaker 1: we we didn't know Sting was on the island, and

1678
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:20,280
Speaker 1: one day he just the best chef on the Island

1679
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 1: was the guy at the studio, Michael George. One day,

1680
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 1: Sting showed up and um with Trudy and because he

1681
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 1: wanted he wanted something decent to eat and we're having

1682
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:43,719
Speaker 1: dinner and Mark said to him and he said, I've

1683
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:47,400
Speaker 1: written this really stupid song about MTV. Do you fancy

1684
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 1: singing on it? So they went downstairs and they came

1685
01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:54,519
Speaker 1: up with the idea of putting I Want my MTV

1686
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:56,760
Speaker 1: on the front to the tune of Don't Stand So

1687
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 1: Close to Me, and that became the record. And um,

1688
01:50:09,840 --> 01:50:12,160
Speaker 1: I remember there was a there was a big headache

1689
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:15,080
Speaker 1: about that song because of the lyrics see the little

1690
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:19,000
Speaker 1: faggot with the earring and the makeup. Warner Brothers some

1691
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:22,439
Speaker 1: not everybody, and I have to say not not more Austin.

1692
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,080
Speaker 1: There were some people in Warner Brothers who wanted to

1693
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:29,800
Speaker 1: edit that there was a reference to American Express, which

1694
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 1: people were, you know, this is going to be so

1695
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:38,679
Speaker 1: and so forth, but that everybody went with it. Although

1696
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:42,200
Speaker 1: funny enough that the first single off that record, which

1697
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:48,519
Speaker 1: people have forgotten, was Walk of Life, and that didn't

1698
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:51,160
Speaker 1: do anything until it came out on the back of

1699
01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 1: Money for Nothing, and then it became a big hit.

1700
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:59,040
Speaker 1: It actually outsold money for nothing, So that was that's

1701
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:01,479
Speaker 1: basically the story that it wasn't okay then that the

1702
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:04,960
Speaker 1: video was classic too with the animation. How did you

1703
01:51:05,040 --> 01:51:07,680
Speaker 1: come up with a video? Well, that was done by

1704
01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:13,920
Speaker 1: Steve Barron and he had done Michael Jackson's beat It,

1705
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:20,400
Speaker 1: the one with the lights under his feet, and he

1706
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 1: basically came up with that idea. We tried. We did

1707
01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:27,880
Speaker 1: have a moment where we were trying to find somebody

1708
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:30,760
Speaker 1: who would appear in that as a kind of redneck

1709
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:37,400
Speaker 1: sort of person, and I approached Buddy Rich and Rodney

1710
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:41,880
Speaker 1: Dangerfield and they both passed on it. There you go,

1711
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:45,040
Speaker 1: So we ended up. So we ended and this that

1712
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:51,519
Speaker 1: that that digital thing had just just literally just kind

1713
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:54,479
Speaker 1: of arrived. So we were shown, we were shown an

1714
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:58,240
Speaker 1: example of that, and we were already on tour on

1715
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:01,600
Speaker 1: the we were already started to turn that record that

1716
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 1: all of the live footage that the band are in

1717
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:10,400
Speaker 1: on in that clip was shot in in Budapest in Hungary, Okay.

1718
01:52:10,479 --> 01:52:15,400
Speaker 1: As we referenced earlier, record comes out far beyond anybody's

1719
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:20,360
Speaker 1: conception worldwide. Smash. What does it feel like? And how

1720
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:24,519
Speaker 1: you then decide to play stadiums and what's it like

1721
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:33,920
Speaker 1: being the biggest act in the world. Um ye, I

1722
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:38,400
Speaker 1: that's an almost unanswerable question. When you're on the roller coaster,

1723
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:45,920
Speaker 1: you're just hanging on. I mean, you don't realize what

1724
01:52:46,840 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 1: what you just said until you can look at it

1725
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:57,320
Speaker 1: with hindsight. I knew we didn't actually play stadiums. We

1726
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:03,759
Speaker 1: played some outdoors, but we didn't. I preferred doing multiple arenas.

1727
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:06,880
Speaker 1: I think it's fairer on the audience. Did you play

1728
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:11,759
Speaker 1: stadium in in Israel? Though? Oh well that was the part. Yes, Sorry,

1729
01:53:12,040 --> 01:53:15,080
Speaker 1: we're just mixing up your fragile Yeah, we played. We

1730
01:53:15,160 --> 01:53:17,840
Speaker 1: played to a quarter of the entire population of Israel

1731
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:22,560
Speaker 1: over three shows. One was in a Roman amphitheater in

1732
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:25,760
Speaker 1: the middle of Jerusalem that was the closest to a

1733
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:29,240
Speaker 1: riot I've ever been involved in. And the other two

1734
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:31,560
Speaker 1: were in the Park, which would be the equivalent of

1735
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 1: Central Park in New York, and we played that. We

1736
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:39,320
Speaker 1: filled that for two days and we played big outdoor shows.

1737
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:44,599
Speaker 1: In Australia, we did play. We played to eighty nine thousand,

1738
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:47,880
Speaker 1: six d and thirty two people in Auckland, which is

1739
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:51,760
Speaker 1: the largest gathering of people ever in the history of

1740
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:55,519
Speaker 1: the Islands of New Zealand, things like that. I could

1741
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:59,000
Speaker 1: rattle off silly statistics for age, okay, But interestingly, in

1742
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:01,880
Speaker 1: that era mid eaties, the biggest being in the world.

1743
01:54:02,320 --> 01:54:05,040
Speaker 1: How much production did you curry and what we was

1744
01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 1: at a factor or was it still just the music?

1745
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:10,200
Speaker 1: It was the music really. I mean we had a

1746
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:15,320
Speaker 1: We had a great, great lighting man, Chas Harrington. Now

1747
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 1: Chaz had started out as the engineer at the Demo

1748
01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:23,400
Speaker 1: studio where they did the first demos. And one day

1749
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,040
Speaker 1: he was fiddling, he was doing monitors for us, and

1750
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:28,240
Speaker 1: he was fiddling with the lighting board and we didn't

1751
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:30,600
Speaker 1: have a lighting man. This is very early on, and

1752
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:32,200
Speaker 1: I said to him, do you want to do the lights?

1753
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:36,920
Speaker 1: And he became one of the world's leading lighting designers. Um,

1754
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:40,840
Speaker 1: we had the same crew we kept. We've always been

1755
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: very low. We used the same trucking company lights, sound,

1756
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:47,560
Speaker 1: all the rest of it, and I kept Obviously the

1757
01:54:47,640 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: crew had to grow, but the core of it sound

1758
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:55,120
Speaker 1: front of the house, UM Robert Collins who now does

1759
01:54:55,640 --> 01:55:00,840
Speaker 1: whose sound? People like the monitor guy. They all the

1760
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:06,320
Speaker 1: core people. And by this point the band had metamorphosized

1761
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:09,960
Speaker 1: into a situation where we had really Mark and John

1762
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:13,760
Speaker 1: and the others were I'm going to call them side men,

1763
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:17,080
Speaker 1: but they were rather more than side men, and we

1764
01:55:17,240 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 1: compensated them on a basis that was more than side men.

1765
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:25,560
Speaker 1: So they were a very That lineup on that Brothers

1766
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:29,120
Speaker 1: and Arms tour, in my view, is the best lineup

1767
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 1: we ever had, and they consistently did two hundred and

1768
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:40,800
Speaker 1: shows in twelve months. It's amazing people are still alive.

1769
01:55:41,640 --> 01:55:46,640
Speaker 1: But interesting, interestingly enough, Mark said to me once he

1770
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:49,040
Speaker 1: came in the office and he was looking at the

1771
01:55:49,160 --> 01:55:51,920
Speaker 1: date sheet that I put together, and he pointed at

1772
01:55:51,960 --> 01:55:55,960
Speaker 1: this day off. He should what's that for? I said,

1773
01:55:56,000 --> 01:55:59,680
Speaker 1: that's for the crew. The band went and played a

1774
01:56:00,040 --> 01:56:05,839
Speaker 1: think reception in a hotel on that day. Wow, okay,

1775
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:10,600
Speaker 1: what did you do with the money? There are issues

1776
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:14,480
Speaker 1: of tax, there's issue spending. Where did you put it?

1777
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,400
Speaker 1: What do you do with it? Are you talking about

1778
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 1: me personally or to the degree you overtaking? Wow? Well,

1779
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:30,720
Speaker 1: the first thing is none of them actually no artists

1780
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 1: have been involved with but certainly none of dire Straits

1781
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 1: has acquired. Nobody's got a private plane, nobody's got a yacht.

1782
01:56:39,440 --> 01:56:44,200
Speaker 1: Mark has a collection of classic cars we have. Everybody

1783
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:51,320
Speaker 1: ended up with nice homes, but I wouldn't say particularly exotic. U.

1784
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:56,520
Speaker 1: We yeah, we paid, we paid a lot of tax.

1785
01:56:56,640 --> 01:57:00,080
Speaker 1: We decided to stay resident in the UK. Nobody he

1786
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:04,880
Speaker 1: went overseas or did any of that kind of stuff. Um.

1787
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:12,040
Speaker 1: It's interesting because you're saying that in the context of now,

1788
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:14,560
Speaker 1: because you've got to remember that everything was less than

1789
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:21,640
Speaker 1: Ticket prices were less, merchandising was less, record royalties were

1790
01:57:22,240 --> 01:57:26,800
Speaker 1: actually record realties were better the Newtube. I mean, if

1791
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,640
Speaker 1: the bogey men back then with the record companies. Now

1792
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:32,800
Speaker 1: it's the internet providers on question. And you know, when

1793
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 1: I do the thing with Irving tomorrow, I know this

1794
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:38,080
Speaker 1: is going to come up. Um. And I think that

1795
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:46,680
Speaker 1: the the money changes you, but what it really changes

1796
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 1: is people's attitude towards you. Um, it's a long time

1797
01:57:53,640 --> 01:57:56,200
Speaker 1: since I didn't pick up the bill in a restaurant,

1798
01:57:58,320 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 1: so you have that. But you know, I mean, it's

1799
01:58:00,440 --> 01:58:07,080
Speaker 1: churlish to complain about being successful. It did. It does

1800
01:58:07,200 --> 01:58:12,800
Speaker 1: have an impact on your on your psyche definitely, apart

1801
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 1: from anything else. You can't quite grasp it if you could.

1802
01:58:19,240 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you you've got me to explain my background

1803
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: earlier on if you come from a background like that

1804
01:58:24,760 --> 01:58:28,200
Speaker 1: Mark Mark. Mark's dad was an architect, his mom was

1805
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:34,400
Speaker 1: a school teacher. John's parents were in were farmers. Um,

1806
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:42,080
Speaker 1: we weren't. It's frightening. There is an element to it

1807
01:58:42,200 --> 01:58:45,520
Speaker 1: that is frightening, and you kind of stash it away

1808
01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:48,880
Speaker 1: pension funds. You would shove it all into pension fund

1809
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 1: because they because they were they were very good tax

1810
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:55,440
Speaker 1: wise in this country, and because there's always this fear

1811
01:58:56,840 --> 01:59:00,960
Speaker 1: all these all creative people are essentially insecure, and some

1812
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:05,400
Speaker 1: of them desperately so so you stash it away kind

1813
01:59:05,400 --> 01:59:08,240
Speaker 1: of under the bed almost because you think it's going

1814
01:59:08,280 --> 01:59:14,680
Speaker 1: to stop tomorrow. So I would say, and we all

1815
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 1: had very good business advice. I did not use lawyers.

1816
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:23,840
Speaker 1: I did all the record deals, all the publishing deals,

1817
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:26,640
Speaker 1: and all of the tours outside of the US. I

1818
01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:30,280
Speaker 1: did myself well. Obviously you were an expert in touring,

1819
01:59:31,200 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 1: but especially even in that day, record deals were very

1820
01:59:35,240 --> 01:59:39,720
Speaker 1: comprehensive in retrospect. Was but I just but my thing

1821
01:59:39,960 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 1: was I had I had huge leverage, so I just

1822
01:59:43,640 --> 01:59:47,720
Speaker 1: used to invent things. I just used to stick closes

1823
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:50,320
Speaker 1: in that were I used to tie record companies up

1824
01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:55,080
Speaker 1: in knots. For instance. Give an example in the UK

1825
01:59:56,080 --> 02:00:01,280
Speaker 1: m then not now, television advert sizing for records was

1826
02:00:01,320 --> 02:00:04,880
Speaker 1: a big thing, but it was expensive, so the record

1827
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:08,880
Speaker 1: companies would want to recoup of the TV costs. So

1828
02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:12,040
Speaker 1: I put them in as I put in clauses in

1829
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:14,840
Speaker 1: the deal that were so complicated they didn't know what

1830
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:17,840
Speaker 1: they were doing. And right now I can't say how

1831
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: much straits technically, Oh what was polychrome now universal? But

1832
02:00:25,200 --> 02:00:29,640
Speaker 1: it's saved hundreds of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds.

1833
02:00:30,280 --> 02:00:35,280
Speaker 1: We never paid towards TV campaigns, were never paid towards videos. Okay,

1834
02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:38,960
Speaker 1: did at what point? Or did? You renegotiated streets record

1835
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:44,160
Speaker 1: deal on every single album, And I renegotiated it backwards

1836
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:48,160
Speaker 1: as well as forwards, So the first album ended up

1837
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:54,240
Speaker 1: on the same royalty as the next one. Wow. But Bob,

1838
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:57,400
Speaker 1: this sounds I mean, it sounds grandiose. But I had

1839
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:01,080
Speaker 1: leverage if I had no you only get leverage through

1840
02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:04,640
Speaker 1: commercial success if you're one of the things I also

1841
02:01:04,760 --> 02:01:09,080
Speaker 1: realized was that the staff in record companies, not so

1842
02:01:09,200 --> 02:01:13,080
Speaker 1: much at Warner Brothers, but certainly in the phonogram companies

1843
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 1: and PolyGram. I got through seventeen managing directors in twenty

1844
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:20,520
Speaker 1: five years in the UK company. Nobody knew what the

1845
02:01:20,600 --> 02:01:25,880
Speaker 1: previous lot had done. They lost all of our paperwork fantastic.

1846
02:01:26,640 --> 02:01:30,760
Speaker 1: So they would ring up and they would say, we

1847
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:33,400
Speaker 1: can't find your contracts and I say, oh, hours is

1848
02:01:33,440 --> 02:01:35,640
Speaker 1: in storage, it's in a it's in a box under

1849
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:38,680
Speaker 1: the Thames. I can't get it, which is total bullshit.

1850
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:42,520
Speaker 1: We did. We went for long periods with no contract.

1851
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:46,360
Speaker 1: We just had deal memos and I and I stole

1852
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:49,920
Speaker 1: somebody out of the royalties department at Phonogram to be

1853
02:01:50,040 --> 02:01:55,680
Speaker 1: my in house accountant, so he knew exactly what that

1854
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:57,840
Speaker 1: was going to be. My next question, to what degree

1855
02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:04,760
Speaker 1: did your audit frequently and you always found money? Nobody's

1856
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:09,360
Speaker 1: ever audited a record company and not found money. Okay, Ever,

1857
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:12,640
Speaker 1: in terms of Sunset deals, are you still getting paid

1858
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 1: personally from these records? Now? I sold those rights like

1859
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:20,720
Speaker 1: rather like Irving's buying up publishing and Mecuri artist is

1860
02:02:20,760 --> 02:02:25,080
Speaker 1: buying up anything that's warm. I sold those rights about

1861
02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:28,160
Speaker 1: three or four years ago. But I was getting commission

1862
02:02:28,240 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 1: in perpetuity on records and I had a very long

1863
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:36,600
Speaker 1: post term on publishing and again I got that after

1864
02:02:36,840 --> 02:02:41,040
Speaker 1: managing them for about eighteen years. Why did you decide

1865
02:02:41,080 --> 02:02:51,920
Speaker 1: to sell some personal reasons, m h and because I

1866
02:02:52,080 --> 02:02:58,360
Speaker 1: could see that the catalog was I mean, it's still

1867
02:02:58,440 --> 02:03:02,440
Speaker 1: doing well, but it's been a long time since Brothers

1868
02:03:02,480 --> 02:03:04,760
Speaker 1: in Arms. I liked to be honest with you, I

1869
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:08,200
Speaker 1: was kind of I was still I was a bit

1870
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:10,680
Speaker 1: fed up having to administer it and so and so forth.

1871
02:03:11,160 --> 02:03:13,960
Speaker 1: And I managed to get an extremely good deal. I mean,

1872
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 1: if can you tell us sold into a company called

1873
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:20,480
Speaker 1: Royal to Exchange in Denver, and I got a very

1874
02:03:20,600 --> 02:03:25,600
Speaker 1: very high multiple. Okay, so you have this band, it's

1875
02:03:25,680 --> 02:03:28,960
Speaker 1: the biggest band in the world. Yet the band is

1876
02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:33,960
Speaker 1: barely together. You know, most managers are doing everything to

1877
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,760
Speaker 1: keep the band together. So one thing in your mind

1878
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:39,080
Speaker 1: and own this is shaky what was going on in

1879
02:03:39,160 --> 02:03:47,120
Speaker 1: your mind at that point. But when we got two

1880
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:51,480
Speaker 1: Brothers in Arms and the work that we did on

1881
02:03:51,600 --> 02:03:54,000
Speaker 1: the back of that, which basically lasted for a year,

1882
02:03:59,240 --> 02:04:04,400
Speaker 1: that level of success that you're talking about, I would

1883
02:04:04,440 --> 02:04:06,720
Speaker 1: take issue with the biggest band in the world because

1884
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:08,800
Speaker 1: that's a bit like being the no No. I think

1885
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:11,440
Speaker 1: if you look, I remember the tour grossest, literally the

1886
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:15,440
Speaker 1: largest in the world. We can, but I can't quantify

1887
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:18,960
Speaker 1: all these other things perception when it comes to hard dollars.

1888
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,160
Speaker 1: That's a bit like being the fastest gunfighter in the West.

1889
02:04:23,320 --> 02:04:25,040
Speaker 1: You know one day somebody's going to come around the

1890
02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:28,840
Speaker 1: corner and shoot you. Yes, but you have a band

1891
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 1: with no sex symbol from not saying you know trendy music.

1892
02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 1: So and you're as we stated earlier, it's not like

1893
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:41,960
Speaker 1: you're selling the show. You're selling the music. That's why

1894
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:43,960
Speaker 1: it was so noteworthy. I'm not blow and spoke up

1895
02:04:43,960 --> 02:04:46,600
Speaker 1: your ass. For those of us were outside, it was

1896
02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:50,360
Speaker 1: pretty astounding. It was pretty starting. For those of us

1897
02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:52,920
Speaker 1: on the inside. I didn't think of it like that,

1898
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:56,480
Speaker 1: and honestly, a lot of people will when I'm watching

1899
02:04:56,560 --> 02:05:01,040
Speaker 1: this will be surprised. I literally ever thought about the

1900
02:05:01,120 --> 02:05:05,160
Speaker 1: money coming in. I constantly thought about the money going out,

1901
02:05:06,600 --> 02:05:10,400
Speaker 1: because when you're running a thing like that, the overhead starts.

1902
02:05:10,480 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got white hair. I started off with

1903
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:18,000
Speaker 1: him with black hair. Um, you've had two people on

1904
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:23,080
Speaker 1: the road I had. I can't, I can't. I can't

1905
02:05:23,120 --> 02:05:25,800
Speaker 1: remember the number of trucks, planes and all the rest

1906
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:30,440
Speaker 1: of it. They What happened was that when we got

1907
02:05:30,560 --> 02:05:35,840
Speaker 1: to the end of that, which was eighty six April May,

1908
02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:41,320
Speaker 1: no sooner as we finished. The mark was he was

1909
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:44,560
Speaker 1: like a greyhound out of the box. Straightaway is producing

1910
02:05:45,240 --> 02:05:48,840
Speaker 1: Tina Turner, then he's doing something else, then he's doing

1911
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:52,360
Speaker 1: another film. It never stopped. He had an incredible work ethic.

1912
02:05:52,840 --> 02:05:55,280
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, it was hard to keep up with him.

1913
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:57,920
Speaker 1: And I had expanded my management company and I was

1914
02:05:57,960 --> 02:06:02,480
Speaker 1: looking after Brian Ferry. Jerry Rafferty had gone by this time,

1915
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:06,600
Speaker 1: long long gone. We had a great Irish singer songwriter

1916
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:12,680
Speaker 1: called Paul Brady, and I was managing Scott Walker, from

1917
02:06:12,760 --> 02:06:16,880
Speaker 1: whom I made three fifty pounds commission in seven years.

1918
02:06:17,600 --> 02:06:19,760
Speaker 1: And Scott's no longer with us. But if he walked

1919
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:22,160
Speaker 1: into this room now and asked me to do it again,

1920
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:24,600
Speaker 1: I do it like a shot. You let's stop with

1921
02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:27,760
Speaker 1: Brian Ferry for a second. You know, he's a very

1922
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:32,480
Speaker 1: debonair guy artistically at ten successful in America. But we're

1923
02:06:32,560 --> 02:06:36,240
Speaker 1: constantly reading these stories how he's one of the richest

1924
02:06:36,360 --> 02:06:40,680
Speaker 1: musicians in the UK. Rubbish. How did you know? That?

1925
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:48,240
Speaker 1: Is complete rubbish? I would say he's that's complete rubbish.

1926
02:06:51,000 --> 02:06:52,960
Speaker 1: Well then let me ask you, since you were the manager,

1927
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:58,480
Speaker 1: how successful was he in the UK? He wasn't as

1928
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:02,560
Speaker 1: successful a both within Roxy Music and on his own.

1929
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:07,160
Speaker 1: But if you're talking about physical record sales, for instance,

1930
02:07:07,280 --> 02:07:10,680
Speaker 1: on the record I worked on, that record would have

1931
02:07:10,760 --> 02:07:17,280
Speaker 1: done maybe a hundred hundred it up on this end, No,

1932
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:20,640
Speaker 1: it's that's complete rubbish. I don't know who's writing that crap,

1933
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:24,360
Speaker 1: and that's no disrespect to Brian. I did a deal

1934
02:07:24,440 --> 02:07:26,600
Speaker 1: for him, or I have finished off a deal in fact,

1935
02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:31,480
Speaker 1: his previous management we're doing with virgin Um, which was

1936
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:36,360
Speaker 1: an extremely but he that they didn't presume they I think,

1937
02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:38,480
Speaker 1: I hope I could be corrected on this. I think

1938
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:41,600
Speaker 1: they dropped him eventually. I mean he and I we

1939
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:46,400
Speaker 1: it didn't work. It just didn't gell because because he'd

1940
02:07:46,440 --> 02:07:49,680
Speaker 1: been whether management company before me, who had a totally

1941
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:53,440
Speaker 1: different style to me. I don't do personals, I don't

1942
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:56,680
Speaker 1: do mortgages, I don't get people's cars repaired, I don't

1943
02:07:56,760 --> 02:08:03,440
Speaker 1: get book their granny's on holiday. And I don't do divorces. Okay,

1944
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:06,839
Speaker 1: but talking about what you do do they're very hands

1945
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:10,040
Speaker 1: on creative managers like the two guys A C. Prime. Yeah,

1946
02:08:10,080 --> 02:08:12,920
Speaker 1: there are there are I know, I know Peter very well. Yeah,

1947
02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:15,080
Speaker 1: And then there are other people say, you go to

1948
02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:17,920
Speaker 1: the studio, I'll make the record, but when it comes out,

1949
02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:20,480
Speaker 1: I'll do I'll sell whatever. But the creative thing is

1950
02:08:20,600 --> 02:08:23,600
Speaker 1: totally yours. You make decision even what's going to be

1951
02:08:24,040 --> 02:08:26,440
Speaker 1: on the record. Where do you sit in there? Continuing?

1952
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:29,360
Speaker 1: I think because I had been a musician, or at

1953
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:32,280
Speaker 1: least I've been a drummer, because that's not necessarily the

1954
02:08:32,360 --> 02:08:38,320
Speaker 1: same thing, um, and because the guy's industrates in particularly

1955
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:40,480
Speaker 1: when I talk about death strates, I really mean Martin

1956
02:08:40,520 --> 02:08:42,560
Speaker 1: Offer and John Ellslie, and I really mean Mark. I

1957
02:08:42,600 --> 02:08:45,760
Speaker 1: suppose we are roughly at the same age. We're from

1958
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:48,480
Speaker 1: the same background, we grew up in very similar parts

1959
02:08:48,520 --> 02:08:51,640
Speaker 1: of the UK, and most significantly, we grew up listening

1960
02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:53,760
Speaker 1: to the same stuff, all the stuff I was talking

1961
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:57,280
Speaker 1: about at the beginning. So when Mark and I went

1962
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:00,520
Speaker 1: started going to Nashville a lot and chet Atkins Blessing

1963
02:09:00,920 --> 02:09:04,880
Speaker 1: opened the door for us to meet everybody. We were

1964
02:09:04,960 --> 02:09:08,280
Speaker 1: like school kids. I mean, meeting the Everly Brothers for

1965
02:09:08,520 --> 02:09:13,480
Speaker 1: us was like you couldn't it was. It was kind

1966
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:17,280
Speaker 1: of dream like and going. And remember he called me

1967
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 1: one morning, pretty early in the morning, and he said,

1968
02:09:20,000 --> 02:09:22,120
Speaker 1: what are you doing And I said, I'm ranking and

1969
02:09:22,200 --> 02:09:24,120
Speaker 1: he said, we'll stop doing that. He said, We're going

1970
02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:27,200
Speaker 1: to go and meet Scotty Moore. So I'm in the

1971
02:09:27,280 --> 02:09:31,400
Speaker 1: lobby in five minutes. I mean, you know, this was

1972
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:34,800
Speaker 1: and I remember we went to Chech took us to

1973
02:09:34,880 --> 02:09:38,240
Speaker 1: Studio B where Elvis had recorded, and I said to

1974
02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:41,360
Speaker 1: check where did Elvis used to stand? And he pointed,

1975
02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:44,640
Speaker 1: and Mark and I went and stood and hugged each other.

1976
02:09:45,480 --> 02:09:47,320
Speaker 1: It was that kind of It was the romance thing

1977
02:09:47,360 --> 02:09:50,280
Speaker 1: that was talking about earlier. And I think that one

1978
02:09:50,360 --> 02:09:53,440
Speaker 1: of the things about Mark Noveler is that he was

1979
02:09:53,720 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 1: very generous in including me a little bit, because obviously

1980
02:10:02,040 --> 02:10:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm doing a different area of the job in the

1981
02:10:04,800 --> 02:10:09,480
Speaker 1: creative process. So he would on more than one occasion

1982
02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:14,040
Speaker 1: come into the office brandishing a guitar, sit down in

1983
02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:16,000
Speaker 1: front of my desk, can play a song to me

1984
02:10:17,280 --> 02:10:20,520
Speaker 1: and say what do you think of that? And I

1985
02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:25,520
Speaker 1: can remember not in the office, but he remember him

1986
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:27,800
Speaker 1: when he the first time he played Robbio and Juliet

1987
02:10:27,960 --> 02:10:30,640
Speaker 1: to me and I just stared at the floor I

1988
02:10:30,760 --> 02:10:33,360
Speaker 1: had no idea what to say. And there's a line

1989
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:35,520
Speaker 1: in that song you and me babe, how about it?

1990
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:40,040
Speaker 1: I thought, what a great line, what fantastic lyric. And

1991
02:10:40,160 --> 02:10:43,760
Speaker 1: I imagine John Landau has the same kind of I

1992
02:10:43,800 --> 02:10:46,440
Speaker 1: know John's actually played guitar with Bruce and his band

1993
02:10:46,880 --> 02:10:51,920
Speaker 1: and drums. I played drums with the notting Hillbillies for takeing. Okay,

1994
02:10:51,960 --> 02:10:56,760
Speaker 1: how did that come about? So that we finished the

1995
02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:04,480
Speaker 1: brothers dance thing? And I think as a kind of

1996
02:11:05,480 --> 02:11:11,440
Speaker 1: kind of reaction to Mark is not very he's not

1997
02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:15,680
Speaker 1: very comfortable with fame and celebrity. And in the same way,

1998
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:19,800
Speaker 1: when Bruce did is Nebraska record, there was a bit

1999
02:11:19,840 --> 02:11:22,200
Speaker 1: of a I think it's a subconscious desire to take

2000
02:11:22,280 --> 02:11:24,960
Speaker 1: the heat out of the situation, to try and get

2001
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:28,560
Speaker 1: it down from the stadiums that you're talking about, and

2002
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:32,160
Speaker 1: the two road crew and we didn't know their names,

2003
02:11:32,320 --> 02:11:38,760
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And he's always been a fan

2004
02:11:38,880 --> 02:11:43,400
Speaker 1: of I'm loosely going to call Americana roots music, blues folk,

2005
02:11:43,480 --> 02:11:47,800
Speaker 1: all of that. And one day, um, he has a

2006
02:11:47,840 --> 02:11:50,720
Speaker 1: little studio in a newshouse not not that far from here,

2007
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 1: and and somebody said to me, somebody who worked for me,

2008
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:58,640
Speaker 1: said Mark, Mark's doing an album. I said what He said,

2009
02:11:58,880 --> 02:12:02,240
Speaker 1: He's doing an album And this turned out to be

2010
02:12:02,440 --> 02:12:04,560
Speaker 1: the first nothing Elbudis record. And he called me up

2011
02:12:04,640 --> 02:12:07,080
Speaker 1: one day and he said, where are your drums? I

2012
02:12:07,160 --> 02:12:10,520
Speaker 1: said there at the house. He said, I'll send Ron,

2013
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:14,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the roadies, round to get them and

2014
02:12:14,160 --> 02:12:17,880
Speaker 1: we set them up in the downstairs bedroom, trail the

2015
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:21,240
Speaker 1: microphone out from the upstairs bedroom out of the window,

2016
02:12:21,400 --> 02:12:23,440
Speaker 1: down the side of the building in and hung it

2017
02:12:23,520 --> 02:12:28,960
Speaker 1: off the light. Then he played me Bewildered, which is

2018
02:12:29,040 --> 02:12:30,920
Speaker 1: one of the songs on that record. He said, can

2019
02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: you play that? I said yeah. He said can you

2020
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:36,000
Speaker 1: play it with brushes? This is this is why he

2021
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:38,160
Speaker 1: got me in, because he doesn't know anybody who can

2022
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:42,680
Speaker 1: play brushes and I said yeah, I said yeah. So

2023
02:12:43,280 --> 02:12:47,720
Speaker 1: I played it one take. He said, okay, next one,

2024
02:12:49,480 --> 02:12:54,040
Speaker 1: played the next one, jud finished, did that, the sampled

2025
02:12:54,160 --> 02:12:56,000
Speaker 1: me as well. I'm not saying I'm on every track.

2026
02:12:56,240 --> 02:12:59,680
Speaker 1: And then a couple of nights later we were but

2027
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:03,320
Speaker 1: wine Bar and he said, okay, we're going to go

2028
02:13:03,400 --> 02:13:05,640
Speaker 1: on tour him you're the drummer and I went no, no, no,

2029
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:08,160
Speaker 1: and I hang on a minute, Hang on a minute,

2030
02:13:09,040 --> 02:13:12,200
Speaker 1: and said, I haven't played in a while. He said, now,

2031
02:13:12,280 --> 02:13:15,160
Speaker 1: don't worry about that, is it just play time. Well,

2032
02:13:15,240 --> 02:13:17,760
Speaker 1: of course, when we got into rehearsals, we rehearsed for

2033
02:13:17,920 --> 02:13:22,760
Speaker 1: forty two days without a day off, from noon until

2034
02:13:22,880 --> 02:13:25,800
Speaker 1: nine o'clock at night. We had one day off and

2035
02:13:25,920 --> 02:13:29,160
Speaker 1: we played forty three shows without a day off, two

2036
02:13:29,200 --> 02:13:31,800
Speaker 1: and a half hour set. And I'll tell you an

2037
02:13:31,840 --> 02:13:35,880
Speaker 1: interesting thing. You'll be interested in this, Bob Mark because

2038
02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:39,120
Speaker 1: he was a school teacher. At rehearsals, he'll have an

2039
02:13:39,240 --> 02:13:43,280
Speaker 1: enormous blackboard and a piece of chalk and he draws

2040
02:13:43,320 --> 02:13:47,280
Speaker 1: a grid on it, and in the in the left

2041
02:13:47,360 --> 02:13:51,360
Speaker 1: hand side here there's this song list getting longer and

2042
02:13:51,560 --> 02:13:55,640
Speaker 1: longer and longer. And if you don't get at the

2043
02:13:55,720 --> 02:13:57,200
Speaker 1: end of the day, you have to play the songs.

2044
02:13:57,240 --> 02:13:58,840
Speaker 1: And if you don't get a ticket in the box,

2045
02:13:58,960 --> 02:14:02,240
Speaker 1: you don't go home. You play it until you get

2046
02:14:02,240 --> 02:14:05,360
Speaker 1: a tick in the box. And I've seen dast rights

2047
02:14:05,400 --> 02:14:11,760
Speaker 1: rehearsals when the road crew have been going because they

2048
02:14:11,800 --> 02:14:14,440
Speaker 1: hadn't taken the box. Okay, So I had it in

2049
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:21,400
Speaker 1: with you and Mark well after they the last straights

2050
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:24,080
Speaker 1: tour that they on every street record, which I have

2051
02:14:24,240 --> 02:14:27,840
Speaker 1: to say was a difficult period. That was the kind

2052
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:31,600
Speaker 1: of divorce tour. I will leave it at that, and

2053
02:14:33,840 --> 02:14:37,120
Speaker 1: we sold it on. We just ran out of gas.

2054
02:14:38,080 --> 02:14:40,680
Speaker 1: We litterally. I mean, we're good friends, we have a

2055
02:14:40,800 --> 02:14:45,320
Speaker 1: respectful relationship. I have a good relationship with John and

2056
02:14:46,560 --> 02:14:49,200
Speaker 1: some of the road crew in my office staff. But

2057
02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:52,960
Speaker 1: we kind of it just ran its course. And I

2058
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:55,000
Speaker 1: think one of the tricks in life, especially if you

2059
02:14:55,800 --> 02:14:58,880
Speaker 1: have the wherewithal to do this, is to recognize when

2060
02:14:58,920 --> 02:15:01,960
Speaker 1: you've got to the cell by day, speaking of which

2061
02:15:02,080 --> 02:15:05,720
Speaker 1: you've been married how many times? Twice? And I'm in

2062
02:15:05,760 --> 02:15:08,600
Speaker 1: the middle of getting divorced. It'll probably come through tomorrow

2063
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:19,440
Speaker 1: fully enough. Did it reach its sale by date? Yes? Okay, Um, yeah,

2064
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:24,560
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's that's a bit of a raw subject. Yes,

2065
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I think that no disrespect to

2066
02:15:28,880 --> 02:15:37,920
Speaker 1: me the lady. Um, yeah, it's we put it in

2067
02:15:37,960 --> 02:15:41,839
Speaker 1: a different way. Do you have someone in your life now? Okay,

2068
02:15:42,320 --> 02:15:45,360
Speaker 1: because otherwise getting older it can be kind of amazing

2069
02:15:45,920 --> 02:15:49,600
Speaker 1: being I have somebody who unfortunately is marooned in your

2070
02:15:49,640 --> 02:15:53,120
Speaker 1: country and I have not seen her since March. As

2071
02:15:53,160 --> 02:15:55,800
Speaker 1: they say that will end hopefully within you know, months,

2072
02:15:56,360 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 1: but in any event, well not or not if not,

2073
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:02,920
Speaker 1: if the governor of Tech excess as his way, you know,

2074
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:07,080
Speaker 1: it's just astounding. We're fighting between states here. You know,

2075
02:16:07,240 --> 02:16:10,200
Speaker 1: they keep it, you know, taking ship to California and Texas.

2076
02:16:10,280 --> 02:16:13,200
Speaker 1: As far as him dropping all restrictions, you might as

2077
02:16:13,240 --> 02:16:17,320
Speaker 1: well shoot people. But um, okay, you came up in

2078
02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:20,480
Speaker 1: an error. It was all being developed as we started.

2079
02:16:20,760 --> 02:16:25,640
Speaker 1: It's all been consolidated today. What do you feel about

2080
02:16:25,720 --> 02:16:29,960
Speaker 1: the business today, the opportunities today, the music and landscape today.

2081
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:34,080
Speaker 1: I think if you're twenty years old and you're coming

2082
02:16:34,120 --> 02:16:37,040
Speaker 1: into it, it's probably just as exciting as it was

2083
02:16:37,120 --> 02:16:41,880
Speaker 1: for me. For me, I find the process of it.

2084
02:16:42,600 --> 02:16:44,959
Speaker 1: You asked why Mark and I split up. It wasn't

2085
02:16:45,040 --> 02:16:51,600
Speaker 1: just between me and him. I had become bored with

2086
02:16:51,760 --> 02:16:55,440
Speaker 1: the process of it, the bureaucracy of it, if you like.

2087
02:16:57,920 --> 02:17:02,200
Speaker 1: It seemed to me that the business part was, if

2088
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:06,080
Speaker 1: you had a kind of graph, the business part was

2089
02:17:06,160 --> 02:17:10,360
Speaker 1: going up and the musical bit was coming down. But

2090
02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:13,280
Speaker 1: that's a generational thing. You know. I was watching a

2091
02:17:13,360 --> 02:17:17,200
Speaker 1: couple of panels of the panels today, and you know,

2092
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:20,440
Speaker 1: I've been doing interviewers for the ISLMC now for some

2093
02:17:20,640 --> 02:17:23,720
Speaker 1: twenty years or so. It's been quite interesting because every

2094
02:17:23,760 --> 02:17:26,520
Speaker 1: time I look at from the stage, the audience is

2095
02:17:26,600 --> 02:17:33,120
Speaker 1: getting younger, obviously, and what they're interested in is what

2096
02:17:33,320 --> 02:17:37,280
Speaker 1: applies to them now and in the future. They're not

2097
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:40,680
Speaker 1: that interested in the history of it, which I think

2098
02:17:40,800 --> 02:17:42,440
Speaker 1: is a bit sad, but that's just the way it is.

2099
02:17:43,240 --> 02:17:46,400
Speaker 1: So for instance, I'm into viewing Irving days off tomorrow

2100
02:17:47,120 --> 02:17:51,200
Speaker 1: and rather than talk about the Eagles, because I don't

2101
02:17:51,280 --> 02:17:55,200
Speaker 1: think I could stay awake. Um, we will have to

2102
02:17:55,280 --> 02:17:59,040
Speaker 1: tackle some of the current stuff that's going on. And

2103
02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:01,360
Speaker 1: he and I had a chat last night. Within two

2104
02:18:01,480 --> 02:18:04,920
Speaker 1: minutes we've both fallen into exactly what we're going to

2105
02:18:05,000 --> 02:18:08,280
Speaker 1: do tomorrow, and I stopped him. I stopped him because

2106
02:18:08,320 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to be spontaneous, right. But of course, with Irving,

2107
02:18:11,760 --> 02:18:15,520
Speaker 1: unlike many people like MTV itself for the Internet killed it,

2108
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:19,440
Speaker 1: he kept changing with the generation. Oh yeah, a lot

2109
02:18:19,520 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 1: of people get stuck in there are Okay, I think

2110
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:24,560
Speaker 1: we've come to the end of the feeling we've known.

2111
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:27,640
Speaker 1: I think some of the audience either needs to get

2112
02:18:27,720 --> 02:18:30,400
Speaker 1: up and eat something or urinate. So I think we've

2113
02:18:30,440 --> 02:18:33,920
Speaker 1: come to a natural stopping point here and anything. We

2114
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:35,680
Speaker 1: have a weekend, we can do what we can do.

2115
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:39,080
Speaker 1: Part two another time absolutely drilled down on one of

2116
02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:42,600
Speaker 1: these areas. Anyway, this has been wonderful. Thanks thanks to

2117
02:18:42,760 --> 02:18:46,080
Speaker 1: all the audience from I L m C. This is

2118
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:49,800
Speaker 1: a Bob left That's podcast signing on. Thank you. Thanks,