Speaker 1: Yeah, Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene
Speaker 1: Jai Ley. We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
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Speaker 1: Farrell and Tom Keene on the American banks, and there's
Speaker 1: no better place to be than with Gerard Cassidy of
Speaker 1: RBC Capital Markets. Gerard, we're just talking about the minting
Speaker 1: of money. You look at operating and come on an
Speaker 1: annual basis of so many banks, and it sure looks
Speaker 1: like minting money. Is that the right phrase, Tom? I
Speaker 1: think is correct. In fact, if you look at the industry,
Speaker 1: this will be the fourth consecutive year of record profitability. Now,
Speaker 1: granted we have the lower tax rates that have contributed
Speaker 1: to that, but even when you take those out, we
Speaker 1: are going into our fourth year of record profitability for
Speaker 1: the banking industry. The most interesting comes since from the
Speaker 1: Bank of American Lending Business this morning. Gerard. Clearly higher
Speaker 1: rates are translating into a high night interest marchin at
Speaker 1: some of these big lenders in America. Clearly, higher rates
Speaker 1: are translating into higher interest income. None of this, though,
Speaker 1: seems to be translating into stock price out performance. Why not, Gerard?
Speaker 1: You you you framed it properly, and I would suggest them.
Speaker 1: What we hear from many investors today is the expression
Speaker 1: late cycle, and they're concerned that the U. S economy
Speaker 1: is not going to be able to maintain this growth
Speaker 1: and therefore, what do I need to own a bank?
Speaker 1: If the US economy grows the way we think it will,
Speaker 1: similar to the way it grew after the Kennedy tax
Speaker 1: cuts in the sixties and the Reagan tax cuts in
Speaker 1: the eighties, I think you'll see investor has come on
Speaker 1: board to the banks very shortly here. So, Jerard, the
Speaker 1: loan growth that you and I have been talking about
Speaker 1: for quite a few quarters, now, are you slowly seeing
Speaker 1: it come through? We are for the industry. What's interesting
Speaker 1: is that if you look at the weekly data comes
Speaker 1: out of every Friday afternoon, this past week, it was
Speaker 1: up around four and a half percent year of a
Speaker 1: year growth. That's up from about two percent at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the year, So you're seeing a creep up. However,
Speaker 1: amongst the biggest banks, the top twenty five banks. That
Speaker 1: growth is still on a year of a year basis
Speaker 1: in the low two percent range, but the smaller banks
Speaker 1: are growing loans close to ten percent over a year,
Speaker 1: so that there's a real market share battle going on.
Speaker 1: Well within the market share battle is the word that
Speaker 1: I think Gerard, you wrote about it about nine. Scale.
Speaker 1: Scale is nothing. Come on, scale is the merger grab deposits,
Speaker 1: cut costs. Right, your scale is time. I think you're
Speaker 1: spot on now. I'd throw in from four or wasn't
Speaker 1: as much about technology as it is today. So the
Speaker 1: technology spend is also so Bank of America five years
Speaker 1: so now I got on listed a two and eight
Speaker 1: thousand bodies. Maybe I'm guessing off the top of my
Speaker 1: head it used to be two. I don't know where's
Speaker 1: that number in five years or ten years. If they
Speaker 1: continue to grow there they're done with their you know,
Speaker 1: significant downsizing from the crisis as we know, um now
Speaker 1: they're actually adding people and as they continue to grow organically.
Speaker 1: Remember our banking sector and went through an enormous consolidation
Speaker 1: as a result of the Clinton President Clinton signing National
Speaker 1: in Estate Banking in the early nineties. This bank, Bank
Speaker 1: America has over a tem percent deposit market share. They're
Speaker 1: prohibited from acquiring any depository now they have to grow organically,
Speaker 1: and that's what they're doing. It's quite interesting that we're
Speaker 1: talking about competition to issue more loansome, Gerard, at a
Speaker 1: time when Marcus, the unit of Colman Sacks, is pulling
Speaker 1: back on its targets for next year. What do you
Speaker 1: make of that? What's the signal that comes from that.
Speaker 1: I think under the new leadership at Goldman UH under
Speaker 1: David Solomon, he's taken a step back, wants to make
Speaker 1: sure that they're going in the right direction, and I
Speaker 1: think the Marcus pullback is part of that thinking. Um
Speaker 1: I believe that when we see the new Goldman saxon
Speaker 1: about six months, there will be a more comprehensive lending
Speaker 1: product than not just a Marcus product. But that being said,
Speaker 1: I think Goldman, you know, jumped into consumer lending, which
Speaker 1: is a very competitive area, and they're probably now want
Speaker 1: to reassess to make sure that this is the area
Speaker 1: they want to go in. You mentioned the new Goldman Sacks.
Speaker 1: What's the new Goldman Sacks gonna look like, Erard? What
Speaker 1: is it? I think they have, um, some sort of
Speaker 1: look that is going to be more similar to the
Speaker 1: JP Morgan Universal Bank. Look, I believe you're going to
Speaker 1: see less emphasis on trading, more faces on a total
Speaker 1: financial solutions to their corporate and commercial customers, and they'll
Speaker 1: be more of a commercial bank. So you know you're
Speaker 1: gonna write a forty page like you know, into the
Speaker 1: end of the year memo whatever. I'm sure you're working
Speaker 1: on it already now. And all of that is trying
Speaker 1: to game the next merger. And I know what you're
Speaker 1: gonna tell me, and your lawyers have told you you
Speaker 1: can't talk about that. Okay, guess what you're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about it? What flavor of bank will be part of
Speaker 1: the combinations, who will be the combinator, and who will
Speaker 1: be the comin combinat Tom, I think you really have
Speaker 1: put your finger on it, because that is the one
Speaker 1: piece that's missing from the banking sector. Large bank mergers,
Speaker 1: we see them coming. There's some regulatory issues that still
Speaker 1: need to be a will will you think they'll be
Speaker 1: finishing Those will be addressed by the first quarter of
Speaker 1: next year. So can we see a US BANCORPS and
Speaker 1: of BB and T looked emerge with other large banks
Speaker 1: or could we ever do a merger of vehicles in Ohio?
Speaker 1: Do you put a fifth third in a key corps together? Honey? Right,
Speaker 1: And that's what we need to see, and I think
Speaker 1: that's coming on the board. It's going to take a
Speaker 1: little time. I mean, John, there was a point where
Speaker 1: Gerard Cassidy was daily, hourly on the streets of Boston
Speaker 1: and you could turn around three hundred and sixty degrees
Speaker 1: and see seven bank towers, and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it was four bank towers, and then it was
Speaker 1: one name. What was the final name of bank, like
Speaker 1: Fenway Banking or something like that. I mean, everybody merged
Speaker 1: with everybody else, and it all became Bank of America.
Speaker 1: We have a moment of silence here for Fleet Bank,
Speaker 1: A moment of silence for how you framed M and
Speaker 1: A a combanate tour and accompany. Yeah, that's story, British.
Speaker 1: I have not heard that one before. We're talking about Wait,
Speaker 1: I can't concentrate today. The Duchess Sussex with child. I
Speaker 1: was so happy You've gone fifty four minutes without even
Speaker 1: talking about it. We're not doing it, Tom A couple then, no,
Speaker 1: no Gerard Banks, Tom banks we do in Banks Edwards,
Speaker 1: you stop it, Come on your kissidy, help me out here.
Speaker 1: You always name the first kid after the richest grandfather, right,
Speaker 1: that's Card and Roll, So it's got to be Charles, right,
Speaker 1: Who wins? Inning seasoned Gerard, I would say, so far,
Speaker 1: what we're seeing, the JP Morgan numbers were strong. Bank
Speaker 1: America's numbers today are also very strong. So and in
Speaker 1: the even city. So who wins in the The universal
Speaker 1: bank model appears to be outperforming right now. The regional
Speaker 1: bank model. We only have P and C so far
Speaker 1: in the regionals, and their numbers came in a little
Speaker 1: light on long growth. But we'll see what happens with
Speaker 1: the rest of the regional banks. But right now, the
Speaker 1: universal bank models put up good numbers here in the
Speaker 1: third quarter. Did you pick for the next twelve months? Still?
Speaker 1: I think so, John, I would stick with Bank America.
Speaker 1: If you believe that the U. S economy is going
Speaker 1: to grow as fast as we do, Bank America's very
Speaker 1: well positioned to capture that. Plus, remember these banks are
Speaker 1: still giving back excess capital. In Bank America is of
Speaker 1: the universal banks is giving bank the least amount of
Speaker 1: capital relative to the city JP Morgan Wells and I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna up that number in the c CAR
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. Jug Cassidy, thank you so much with
Speaker 1: the RBC Capital UH markets. You spoke with our Benjamin
Speaker 1: Harvey and instabule running all of our Bloomberg News operation
Speaker 1: UH in Turkey UH and out of that part of
Speaker 1: the Middle East earlier and now without question or interview
Speaker 1: of the day and this on the uproar over the
Speaker 1: disappearance of Mr Kashogi UH and as the Turks have said,
Speaker 1: the murder of Mr Kuschogi as well. John Svakiankists joins us.
Speaker 1: He has been on the show any number of times
Speaker 1: with a Golf Research Center Foundation, their economics research director. John,
Speaker 1: I have visited your office is in Riad. You are
Speaker 1: a student of the royal family. Does um does the
Speaker 1: Does the prince have the support of his royal family?
Speaker 1: I think he has a support of the royal family,
Speaker 1: and I also think he does have the support of
Speaker 1: his father, and that's why the father decided that he
Speaker 1: has to send a personal envoy to Turkey, and that
Speaker 1: was the governor of the Western Province, Prince Khalat Alfasal
Speaker 1: And at the same time, they have agreed to investigate
Speaker 1: the matter of the Saluadis themselves and begin an investigation
Speaker 1: on the issue of how Jamal Hashoji has disappeared and
Speaker 1: what's going on. If the Turks say that there is audio,
Speaker 1: there are images, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, does Saudi Arabia accede
Speaker 1: to those items of evidence or do they have to
Speaker 1: find their own evidence. It's a very good question. I
Speaker 1: think that it will be difficult for the Saudis too
Speaker 1: demonstrate that they have convincing evidence. To the contrary, if
Speaker 1: the Turks do share this evidence with the wider media,
Speaker 1: and at the same time, it could be that there
Speaker 1: is an agreement, because if things continue as is, things
Speaker 1: are going to heat up and both sides are going
Speaker 1: to begin to reciprocate. And by both sides I mean
Speaker 1: the West, the US, UK, France, UM so Saudi Arabia
Speaker 1: needs to show and demonstrate clearly that they are looking
Speaker 1: into this affair and they're trying to find solutions and
Speaker 1: um find answers to the many questions of how he disappeared. John,
Speaker 1: let's have the ugly conversation of leverage. The President of
Speaker 1: the United States said he's prepared to take action. Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia has hardly stood back. They say it will also
Speaker 1: avowed threat that they vow to retaliate um and talk
Speaker 1: about their standing in the global economy, John, what does
Speaker 1: action and retaliation look like and what kind of leverage
Speaker 1: does Sauly Arabia have to ensure that the kind of
Speaker 1: action the United States takes isn't that harmful to the kingdom? Right?
Speaker 1: I think, Jonathan, that if things do continue in this
Speaker 1: heated fashion, we've seen already an editorial by Saudi, who
Speaker 1: is very close to the center of power to kill
Speaker 1: the hail who did say that oil could be used
Speaker 1: as a weapon. And of course God forbid if this
Speaker 1: happens at this point when the global economy is going
Speaker 1: through some first reverberations of challenges in terms of growth,
Speaker 1: we see oil prices at a hundred fifty or two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a barrel. I don't think that the US
Speaker 1: will take that quite lightly, and it could very well
Speaker 1: then italiate and say, look, business comes second, and we're
Speaker 1: going to have a general embargo, and then Saudi Arabia
Speaker 1: is found in a position similar to that of Russia.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to get there. I think
Speaker 1: that there will be cooler heads that dominate both in
Speaker 1: Saudia and the rest of the world. And I think
Speaker 1: at the end um the perpetators or the people involved
Speaker 1: in the possible event of murdering this journalist could be
Speaker 1: found guilty and given to international justice. Again, this is
Speaker 1: all speculation, well, the alleged murder of this journalist that
Speaker 1: we are discussing at the moment, it's just one of
Speaker 1: a range of issues that the Crown Prince has opened
Speaker 1: up for the international stage to question. And I wonder John.
Speaker 1: Over the last couple of years, the Crown Prince has
Speaker 1: gone on a fantastic charm offensive with several leaders across
Speaker 1: the developed world and many multinational companies as well. How
Speaker 1: much harm has been done with this specific incidents on
Speaker 1: the international stage for Saudi standing well, there is no
Speaker 1: doubt that when you have a major conference taking place
Speaker 1: literally next week and many of the global leaders businessmen
Speaker 1: who are planning to attend, including Jamie Diamond, have decided
Speaker 1: not to do so, it is a blow to Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia's image making to the rest of the world, and
Speaker 1: that has to be taken quite Seriously, mistakes are made
Speaker 1: all the time, and the reform is excellent. The change
Speaker 1: that is happening in Saudi Arabia is very much welcomed
Speaker 1: over the last few years. But a blunder like this
Speaker 1: should not curtail and hold back what Saudi Arabia can attain,
Speaker 1: and so I do believe that cooler heads will prevail. John,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Chiankis Golf Research with the Golf
Speaker 1: Research Center Foundation, and now for our interview of the
Speaker 1: day within Bloomberg News. Vivian near him is out of
Speaker 1: the University in Earth his three and holds court in Riod,
Speaker 1: which is a challenging assignment at any time, but evermore
Speaker 1: so right now. Vivian joins us from Riad. Vivian, what
Speaker 1: has been the reaction of Saudi officials, what has been
Speaker 1: the reaction of the domestic and elite media in Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia to these announcements by the Prince, by the King
Speaker 1: and by the government. Well up until today we had
Speaker 1: seen a very firm narrative that Jamal Hashoji, you know,
Speaker 1: as prominent Saudi journalist, to his last scene entering the
Speaker 1: Saudi consulate in Istanbul, had left the consulate shortly after
Speaker 1: he entered, and they had continued to reiterate that narrative
Speaker 1: despite repeated statements from Turkish authorities that they believed that
Speaker 1: Hashoji had been murdered inside the consulate. And we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, a great amount of resistance in Saudi media
Speaker 1: and a great amount of resistance from Saudia's who say
Speaker 1: that they do not trust the Turkish statements, and many
Speaker 1: people feel that this is an attack on Saudi Arabi
Speaker 1: it it can't possibly be true, um, And there's been
Speaker 1: quite a lot of pushback. UM. We saw that shift
Speaker 1: a bit today with an announcement from an anonymous Saudi
Speaker 1: official that the kingdom has actually begun an internal investigation
Speaker 1: into the disappearance of hush Ogi. Now, um, I mean
Speaker 1: that's a bit subtle, but what it basically shows is
Speaker 1: that they have started to look inwards as well, and
Speaker 1: so they're considering another narrative that perhaps didn't just walk
Speaker 1: out of the consulate shortly after he entered. Vivian, can
Speaker 1: you explain for people that may not be following this
Speaker 1: as closely as you are or we are, what are
Speaker 1: the implications for this for US Saudi relations? Right? I mean,
Speaker 1: this has turned out to be a much bigger story
Speaker 1: than many people thought it would be. At the start.
Speaker 1: You know, Jamal Hushogi was very well known, UM among
Speaker 1: people who knew Saudis into New Saudi Arabia. But I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone expected that it was going to have
Speaker 1: quite so many consequences in the business world and for
Speaker 1: the Saudi economy. UM. And it's testing the really long
Speaker 1: running times between Saudi Arabia and UH in the United States.
Speaker 1: Was a US resident UM, and the US has been
Speaker 1: demanding answers from Saudi Arabia. And meanwhile, there's been quite
Speaker 1: a strong reaction from the business community. There's a very
Speaker 1: massive investment conference that's coming up in Riad the early
Speaker 1: later this month, and we've seen really big names pulling
Speaker 1: out of it, including Nami Diamond, UM and Richard Branson
Speaker 1: just saying we're not coming Vivian the distinction here. And
Speaker 1: I understand the delicacies of you being domiciled in Ria
Speaker 1: as we speak. I don't know if you're aware, but
Speaker 1: twenty nine minutes ago, the President of the United States,
Speaker 1: let me get this accurately. I got to do a
Speaker 1: refresh on the computer. Twenty nine minutes ago the President
Speaker 1: put out a tweet where it is language from Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia quote to our Saudi Arabian citizen unquote. And you
Speaker 1: just stated, as many others have stated, that Mr Kashogi
Speaker 1: was an American citizen. Can he be both? Is he
Speaker 1: one is the other? Where does that sit within Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia right now? So he was a U s residence
Speaker 1: but not a US citizen. UM. He was actually a
Speaker 1: saudiast citizen who had been living in a self opposed
Speaker 1: exile for about a year. So he left the kingdom
Speaker 1: under fears that he would be detained there or something
Speaker 1: like that, and he had moved to the US and
Speaker 1: was residing there with within this is his disappearance. What
Speaker 1: will the internal probe be? I mean? Is it a
Speaker 1: police probe? Is it a special probe? Do we have
Speaker 1: any idea from your reporting of who who will be
Speaker 1: the who of the probe? So what we were told
Speaker 1: is that the Saudi King Salmon himself ordered over the
Speaker 1: weekend that this probe begin and it will be done
Speaker 1: by the Saudi public prosecutor, who reports directly to the king. UM.
Speaker 1: So we don't know necessarily what that will entail. We
Speaker 1: were told that it will be very speedy, that they've
Speaker 1: been told to do as quickly as possible, and that
Speaker 1: we could hear some sort of announcement within days of
Speaker 1: what they conclude. Vivian, why is the probe itself significant? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's that bit. But it shows they are
Speaker 1: rethinking or reconsidering, um, the previous narrative which they had
Speaker 1: really strongly stuck to, which was that absolutely nothing happened,
Speaker 1: you know, to at the consulate and we had absolutely
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this UM. This disappearance, the fact
Speaker 1: that they are sort of, you know, potentially looking inwards, um,
Speaker 1: you know, looking for the story what could have happened,
Speaker 1: It could show that they might be perhaps willing to
Speaker 1: make some sort of partial admission of guilt. Analysts are
Speaker 1: saying that could then still absolve higher authorities, or they
Speaker 1: could perhaps open up the way for them to blame
Speaker 1: rogue elements within the state for anything that might have happened.
Speaker 1: It's still up in the air, and it's too early
Speaker 1: to say what the fate is of Hashog. They're not
Speaker 1: admitting it publicly yet UM or saying anything publicly yet
Speaker 1: about that, but it basically is a sign that they
Speaker 1: are no longer sticking to this really you know, tense
Speaker 1: narrative that he went in and he went out. Vivian
Speaker 1: Just finally, you've previously talked written about Turkey and uh
Speaker 1: their role in this. Can you just elaborate there a
Speaker 1: little bit? Yeah, I mean that's a complicated relationship between
Speaker 1: Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Um. They are both you know,
Speaker 1: regional powers. They don't always get along. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: they do have diplomatic relations. It's not as bad as
Speaker 1: it is with other countries in the region. But their
Speaker 1: tense you know, Turkey has traditionally supported a particular kind
Speaker 1: of political Islam that the Saudi government you know, believes
Speaker 1: to be a danger to their security and stability. Um.
Speaker 1: And Turkey has sided with a Thought um in this
Speaker 1: recent dispute between Thought and the other Gulf states, which
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia also is very offended by. So naturally, when
Speaker 1: these kind of you know, anonymous leaks started coming out
Speaker 1: from Turkish authorities accusing Saudi Arabia of these very grizzly allegations,
Speaker 1: a lot of Saudia's were immediately distroy full of that.
Speaker 1: You know, Turkey is not our friend. We can't trust
Speaker 1: with her thing. Vivian, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us today and short notice. Vivian ner Um with that
Speaker 1: question the article today for Bloomberg News. I'll get it
Speaker 1: out in social on Saudi Arabia setting up some form
Speaker 1: of investigation and the disappearance of Mr Kushogi as well.
Speaker 1: Vivian ere Um with Bloomberg News in Gary Gensler is
Speaker 1: of course we know him as the former head of
Speaker 1: the Commodity Futures Trading Commission or better known as the
Speaker 1: c f TC, former Under Secretary of the Treasury for
Speaker 1: Domestic Finance as well as for financial markets, former Goldman
Speaker 1: Sachs executive and currently at the Media Center at the
Speaker 1: m I T at the Media Lab. Gary, thanks very
Speaker 1: much for your being here and for your patients. We
Speaker 1: were talking about debt just before President Donald Trump was speaking,
Speaker 1: and I want to really try to get you to
Speaker 1: crystallize that should we be concerned about all of the
Speaker 1: government debt, corporate debt and individual debt that has been created.
Speaker 1: And it looks like interest rates are at least moving up,
Speaker 1: not down. How's that good for people that are in debt?
Speaker 1: I think that the high level of debt that we
Speaker 1: have in America these last ten years. It competes with
Speaker 1: the high level debt we had in the nineteen twenties,
Speaker 1: and so just that it's about three and a half
Speaker 1: times the economy. Three sixty percent of our economy was
Speaker 1: about seventy trillion dollars of corporate, government and household debt.
Speaker 1: We've done some good things in the last ten years.
Speaker 1: There's a little less household debt as mortgage debt has
Speaker 1: come down after the housing bubble, but we've backfilled and
Speaker 1: we have a lot more government debt and corporate debt.
Speaker 1: So I think it's something to be aware of. We
Speaker 1: normally have lower levels of debt than we've had the
Speaker 1: last ten years. Well, does that make it more concerning
Speaker 1: if there were to be an economic downturn or whether
Speaker 1: there were to be some shock to the you know,
Speaker 1: economic system that then creates a crisis. UH debt does
Speaker 1: provide a lot of opportunity for UH businesses to innovate,
Speaker 1: for individuals to buy that home and send their kids
Speaker 1: off to college. But we have too high level of
Speaker 1: student debt, for instance, And yes, in downturns than debt
Speaker 1: cuts the other way, it's great on the upside, it's
Speaker 1: rough on the downside, Gary, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: the golden sex management. If you don't want to answer this,
Speaker 1: I understand that you may want to step aside here.
Speaker 1: But you are one of the few people on the
Speaker 1: planet that have actually lived the shift from banking m
Speaker 1: and A over to thick over to trading and all.
Speaker 1: You're one of the very few people it's actually done
Speaker 1: with a lot of people blather about but then on
Speaker 1: the clue what they're talking about. How big a shift
Speaker 1: is from the smooth banking world over to rough and
Speaker 1: trumble trading where you could enjoy watching the bid walk
Speaker 1: away in seconds. Well, there is a difference. I started
Speaker 1: in the merger and acquisition area at Coman Sacks and
Speaker 1: then I was honored to be asked to go over
Speaker 1: to the fixed income and currency trading. What do they
Speaker 1: take you into a room and say we've got bad news, Gar,
Speaker 1: How does that work? No? No, there was there was
Speaker 1: a time when, uh, there was. Some of us younger
Speaker 1: partners were asked, would we be willing to take the
Speaker 1: risk and move around? But you're right, the time horizons
Speaker 1: are shorter a merger transaction you might be negotiating Vermonts
Speaker 1: and the markets move in seconds or nano seconds, and
Speaker 1: so um uh there is a different uh time horizon. Um.
Speaker 1: But the people that when I was there twenty plus
Speaker 1: years ago, the people on the trading side were excellent
Speaker 1: and they they allowed me to distill the modern the
Speaker 1: modest uproar of Mr Salomon taking over and he's not
Speaker 1: like those guys. How do you how do you distill
Speaker 1: that well? In any firm, even if it's not a
Speaker 1: wall street, there's multiple cultures and in what you're highlighting
Speaker 1: is there's the trading culture and the banking culture, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it ebbs and flows. And even at Godman Sachs
Speaker 1: when I was there, it was initially the bankers John Weinberg,
Speaker 1: John Whitehead and led the firm, and then Bob Rubin
Speaker 1: and others who are excellent from the trading side, you know,
Speaker 1: ascended and and help lead the firm and guide the firm.
Speaker 1: So it ebbs and flows. Gary Yes, I mentioned in
Speaker 1: the introduction your senior advisor and director at the m
Speaker 1: I T Media Lab. Plus you're a senior lecture at
Speaker 1: the Sloane School of Management at m i T. Your course,
Speaker 1: you teach a course on blockchain technology, is it standing
Speaker 1: room only? Sometimes it's blockchain and money money, and uh
Speaker 1: M I T community is very engaged in this subject.
Speaker 1: Of course, it's M I T. And we're really trying
Speaker 1: to find ground truth how much of this technology that
Speaker 1: underlines bitcoin can really be used to change the world
Speaker 1: of finance or medical records or supply chains and in
Speaker 1: just quickly in the class, in the course that you teach,
Speaker 1: is there one thing you want or recommend that the
Speaker 1: students take away from so that they can further their understanding.
Speaker 1: Because it's a topic with a lot of supposed experts,
Speaker 1: So I'm really trying to teach ground truths that they
Speaker 1: have critical reasoning skills to sort of separate the hype
Speaker 1: and the maximalists that say will solve every problem and say, well,
Speaker 1: how will this actually be applied, this database technology to
Speaker 1: move something of value money on the internet without a
Speaker 1: central bank or commercial bank. How how can that technology
Speaker 1: actually be used as a catalyst for change and ultimately
Speaker 1: for them to be entrepreneurs and start their businesses. Um
Speaker 1: So critical reasoning skills. This has been wonderful. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Thank you so much for having me here.
Speaker 1: Wide ranging. I thought he was gonna say that the
Speaker 1: blockchain technology makes it easier for the money to leave
Speaker 1: Tom Keane's pocket and got over the blood chain. We
Speaker 1: want to protect Tom. No, it'll be it's a huge debate,
Speaker 1: won't Gary Gunster, Thank you so much. I know you're
Speaker 1: off to you now here at Bloomer the former chairing
Speaker 1: of the CFTC, among other duties, and of course this
Speaker 1: public service to the Nation and Treasury a few years ago.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and
Speaker 1: listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before
Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio.