WEBVTT - 12. Epilogue 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:08.639 Murder and Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio. In April 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:13.120 of twenty nineteen, federal Judge John Acosta ruled in Frank 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:17.360 Gable's favor. Here's an excerpt from his ninety four page decision. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.040 Although evidence presented a trial in nineteen ninety one resulted 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.959 in a guilty verdict, the court concludes that it is 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.760 more likely than not that no reasonable juror would find 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.760 Gable guilty in light of the totality of all the 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:37.159 evidence uncovered since that time, particularly the newly presented evidence 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:42.200 of witness recantations. But the State of Oregon is appealing 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:47.280 that decision, and Gable is far from free. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.400 Yeah, the case against Gable has been completely demolished. Even 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.120 The Oregonian, in one of its first stories about the 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:59.200 judge's ruling, cited several legal experts who said the state 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.200 couldn't possibly retry Gable because there was no case against 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:08.160 him left. The case is completely insuranced. The one thing 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.040 we know for sure about this case is that Gable 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.040 didn't do it. The investigation was a cover up. And 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.000 the problem with that, of course, is that it just 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.520 leave so many unanswered questions, and. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:52.400 It's an unsolved murder. As we've sorted through the details 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.240 of the Frankie murder investigation and Frank Gable's trial, the 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.320 same name surface time and time again. Perhaps the most 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.480 significant is Johnny Krause, who you'll recall initially confessed to 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.720 the murder, had detailed knowledge of Mike's wounds, a new 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.320 information about the crime scene he wouldn't have known unless 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.200 he'd been there. But these things were dismissed by police. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.200 Kraus recanted and was granted immunity not to recant. His 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.119 recantation and mention of all of this was excluded from 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:29.880 Gable's trial by Judge Gregory West. Kraus is no longer alive, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.240 but he may have been one of only a handful 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.440 of people who could answer questions about Michael's actual killer. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.280 Well, the thing about Kraus that you just can't get 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.280 past is that he knew things he couldn't have known 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.960 unless he'd been there, whether he did the stabbing or not. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.320 He knew where the wounds were, and of course he 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.240 knew about the man who turned and ran across the 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.480 Green expanse towards the State hospital and around the Big 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.440 Green generator. He knew things that he couldn't have known. 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:04.800 Otherwise unless he was there. As we've covered, Kevin Frankie 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.720 first learned about Kraus during a reading with a psychic. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.800 Whether you believe in psychics or not, the factorymins this 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.320 psychic was right. The police did have a man in custody. 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.720 She was correct about Johnny Krause, and as it would 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.880 turn out, many other things, but we'll get to that later. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:23.160 Here's Kevin. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.320 She went by Jane Doe, and she didn't tell me 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.400 what her real name was until after I met her, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.560 because she didn't want me putting her name out there. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.840 She wasn't a psychic for profit. She never charged me 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:41.280 a penny. She was did psychic work for the Boston 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:46.280 Police Department, and I got referred to her by my 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:51.760 roofing supply guy's son worked for the Marion County Sheriff's Department. 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.320 Jane had helped the Marion County Sheriff's Department a couple 0:03:55.400 --> 0:04:00.000 of times, one very recently that a gentleman had done 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.080 disappeared and they were sure if he'd been abducted or 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.760 what happened, And she described the area where he could 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.120 be found, and they found him within like fifty or 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.760 one hundred feet of where she told them to go. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.240 I called her, I said, I didn't tell her my 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.680 name other than Kevin. I need to speak to you 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:25.480 about my brother's death. She was describing the people that 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.000 were involved in the descriptions, and the one guy is tall, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.680 good looking, with her comb back, kind of sandy brown hair. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.440 I didn't know any of these things or any of 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.839 this stuff that she was talking about. She described the 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.360 dome building to a t, and the hallway, the entryway, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.400 the entry doors, the floyer. You know, this was back 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.880 before there was the internet being used at all, and 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.320 there was no way to research by Frankie. She only 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:53.320 knew Kevin. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.039 Yeah, you can't get past that. Really, it's what do 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.520 you believe in psychics or not. She knew they had 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.279 someone in custody, and she knew that his name was Johnny. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.760 Started with a hard c or a kay. This was 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.400 before the internet. I mean, she couldn't have picked it 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:13.680 up on the news. It wasn't in the news on 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.080 the East Coast. There's no way she could have known. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.280 That's true. It certainly wasn't a national news story at 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:20.719 that point. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:21.440 Oh No. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:27.440 Local television reporter Eric Mason believes Krause wasn't pursued to 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:28.920 protect others. 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.440 Well, I think was the biggest factor and why it 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:38.040 was that Frank Gable not convicted, was that the reasonable 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.520 doubt question, That is Johnny Krause being someone who knew 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:46.200 details and said he'd done it, and the massive amount 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:53.480 of information that surrounded the age that represented the Corrections 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.880 department at all of the stuff that had been reported 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.120 by Steve and by Phil and by myself, it was 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.040 just as if none of that could make its way in. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.159 It only had to do with Frank Gable and what 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:09.599 surrounded Frank Gable. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.200 So did it seem to an extent that the judge 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.800 had cleansed the possibility of anything coming into the courtroom 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.760 that could possibly change that. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.640 Yes, And then I think that is why the Johnny 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:28.039 Crouse story is so important to it, because Johnny Krouse 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.880 not only admits to doing it, but he has information 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:35.400 that had never been out anywhere. You really needed to 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.000 have his story in there to be able to provide 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.920 reasonable doubt for the jury to be able to say 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.800 it's very possible this other person did it, and there 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.080 was no one else to look at that way. 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.240 Johnny Krause endured an extremely abusive upbringing and was a 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.160 fringe character even by the standards of Salem's criminal underworld, 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.080 and not necessarily the most reliable witness. Then reporter for 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.720 The Statesman Journal, Steve Jackson interviewed Kraus at the time. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:11.120 I met Johnny. Obviously I wrote some stories regarding his 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.840 involvement here. You know, he was playing this for what 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:21.000 might he accomplish out of it? I don't know to 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:25.120 this day. I know he both confessed to it and 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.440 then recanted his his confession, and you know, you'd hear 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.280 he confessed again, and then he recanted again. And with 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.520 that whole class of people prison inmates, it's hard to tell. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.080 They're so used to, uh, you know, lying as a 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.520 way of life that it was it was difficult. I 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.760 didn't find him to be like some of them, which is, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.920 you know, constantly conniving and you just get this feeling 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.200 from him that that's all they're about. I didn't quite 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.080 get that from him one of the interviews. When I 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.000 talked to him, I got this feeling that he was 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.880 kind of scared of where he was in all of this. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.880 But I wasn't sure. Is that because he's guilty of 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.120 murder or is it because he's afraid of the state 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.760 police investigation who you know that he might be going 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.400 up against their wishes. So it was difficult to tell. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.200 I wouldn't have called him the brightest bulb in the 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:24.640 entire pack either. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.840 But Kraus's confession could very well have saved frank Gable 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.320 from being convicted of Michael Frankie's murder and sentenced to 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:38.319 life in prison. Still, the question remains, why would Kraus 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.440 have confessed to the murder in the first place. Here 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:42.360 are Phil and Kevin. 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.160 He was a very strange care He had a history 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:48.319 of confessing. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:49.160 He liked to confess. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.679 He was brought up to feel guilty about everything. And 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.800 one of the things that's noted in the police reports 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.960 is that he would confess to the crimes he was 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.600 caught for and confessed to others as well. So my 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:08.160 theory is that he was certainly there. He knew things 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.880 that he couldn't have known unless he was there. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.640 Correct He confessed because he didn't think that he would 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.600 be charged with murder. He thought that he would be 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:22.040 helpful in confessing this information that he had the nature 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.040 number and the location of the wounds, but that it 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:29.000 wasn't his hand that had the knife in it. But 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.599 he saw enough or heard enough from buck Burgess personally 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.160 in his relationship with buck Burgess that he could transmit 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.160 that information in the form of a confession or in 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.520 form of I know what happened. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:47.240 Remember buck Burgess. He was the former cellmate of Conrad 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.160 Nick Garcia, the inmate who claimed he'd been approached by 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.680 Tentatividad to kill Michael Frankie at the request of the 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:59.880 Assistant Attorney General, Scott McAllister. Buck Burgess was also married 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.880 to Melody Rothschild Burgess Garcia, who was openly muling drugs 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.199 into the prison. The same Melody Garcia who sold her 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:14.920 daughter Carrie to Tim Natividad, The Carrie Rothchild who places 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.200 Scott McAllister in her home meeting with Tim Natividad and 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.760 Melody buck Burgess lived at the address. Kraus told the 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.840 DA and police the knife that killed Michael Frankie came 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:32.080 from back to Phil and Kevin and Johnny Krause. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.439 I think he was there. I think he was probably 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.720 he could have very well. I think he was. He 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.120 was definitely watching across the street. 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.720 It was definitely across the streets, so he could have been, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:45.920 you know, right there at the parking lot. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.120 And of course that is one of the main arguments 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.240 in the Habeas Corpus petition that got gabled out, that 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.079 here was someone who'd confessed to the murder and new 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.920 things he couldn't have known unless he was there, And 0:10:57.960 --> 0:10:59.800 he didn't come up in the trial. He was not 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.720 a his name was not allowed in as natividads was 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:03.360 not allowed in. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.280 Pat Frankie questioned Kraus in prison. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.040 Honey, Krauss was just a creepy guy who eavesdropped and 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.920 heard more than he probably should have about what went on. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.560 He had a reputation of being kind of a window peeper, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.880 sneaky son of a bitch, and heard that after the fact. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:25.440 And I don't think he did it back. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.840 To Phil whatever it was, you know, whatever his role 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.319 in it was, and I think he was there looking out. 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.840 He was a lookout that night. I think that he 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.600 may have been the taller of the two men that 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.120 Hunsaker saw that night, the one who turned and ran. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.880 In fact, that's what he said he did. He ran 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.520 to the medical building and around the big green generator 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.640 quite possibly the one who turned and walked back to 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.680 the Dome building at a leisurely pace, as Hunsaker said 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:52.840 was Nativity. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.520 Years later, Kevin tracked Johnny Krouse down and questioned. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.840 Him, probably about a year after the trial that we're 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.560 talking about, two years, two and a half years after 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.720 Mike was killed. I got a hold of Johnny's lee press, 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.160 so I called, and he wasn't a bushel of information. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:16.160 He was very tentative. You know, what do you want? 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.319 I just want to be left alone. There is a 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.440 long pause, and he says, you don't understand. They can 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:28.360 reach out and tap you any where you are any day. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.040 He said, I just want to be left alone. I 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.319 don't even know if this is fucking you talking. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:34.360 To me, and he hung up. 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.679 So his implication was if he spoke to you, they 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:38.600 could kill him. 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:40.400 Yeah, that was the implication. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.520 Back to Phil and timnativit Ad. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.720 The reason I think that it's very likely that Native 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.600 a Dad is the man in the pinstripe suit is 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:56.720 that he resembles the composite drawing that the DA's office 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:58.840 tried to keep under wraps for such a long time. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.480 And then of course you have Greg Kelsey's story, which 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.160 he told to Nigel Jake, was how he took Tim 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.880 Natividad to the Dome Building that night, picked him up 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.319 later he had blood on him, And this is a 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:13.520 story that Kelsey had told people in the underworld shortly 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.880 after the murder. So it makes the most sense. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.600 Yes, here's local television reporter Eric Mason. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.480 So that sketch that everybody wonders, who is this person 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.720 right there at the door of the Dome Building just 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.880 before Michael Frankie is stabbed? 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:32.160 Who is that man? 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:39.040 And Liz Godlove identifies that man as Rooster, also known 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:40.240 as Tividad. 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:46.320 I strongly believed that, Yeah, unless you can show me otherwise. Unfortunately, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:47.160 I believe. 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.680 That, and that he also knows details, and he also 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.400 makes statements that are indicative of a person who has 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:02.199 murdered by Frankie. But as all of this comes out, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:09.720 it's clear what happens. Then the police do basically say, listen, 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.559 Tim to Tevidad's dead. What do we do with that? 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:14.480 We can't make any sense. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:14.559 Out of that. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.560 And so all the time that they put into putting 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.680 that sketch out everywhere seems to be just like flushed 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:22.320 down a toilet. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:25.840 Here are pill and Kevin. 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.280 And for a while they tried, you know, after we 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.040 were Jackson and I were making an issue with this 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.600 in the papers, they tried to put out the story 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.720 that it was a Xerox salesman who'd been there working 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.960 that night. I found the Xerox salesman and he was 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.400 had ready, why are you ready? Sh hair? And he 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.520 said he was wearing a tweed coat that night. So 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.880 I mean, that's another lie. Why are they lying about 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.360 the man in the pinstripe suit? 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:02.640 And they maintained that lie throughout the entire case, even 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.720 after it was abundantly clear that it was not the 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:10.840 copy of repair man, when it was, you know, patently false. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.800 They didn't want the public to know who the man 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.520 in the pinstriped suit was because once that name comes out, 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.560 who that person is, then you have a nest of 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:26.360 thieves that get investigated. It starts pushing buttons with government. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.760 People, because if he was recognized, it would have led 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.760 to people who would have led to people who did 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.520 not want to be exposed. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.480 Exactly, you couldn't possibly pretend to know who killed Michael 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.960 Frankie without knowing who the man in the Pinstripe suit was. 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.520 And based on the number of people who have connected 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.600 him to the murder and noted an undeniable resemblance, the 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:55.280 likelihood is that Tendativitad was the man in the Pinstripe suit. 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:11.680 Natividad's former drug partner and cellmate, Greg Kelsey Johnson, also 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.240 linked Natividad to the murder. Here's the reporter he spoke 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.160 to the Willamett Weeks, Nigel Jaquis. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:25.080 So Greg Johnson contacted me from local jail. He was 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.360 in jail in an adjacent county, and he said that 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.720 he had information about who really killed Michael Frankie and 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:35.760 how I was skeptical as you would be, but I 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.440 decided I would go. He said enough to make me 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.520 willing to go see him, And I went and saw him, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:48.480 and he had enough information and enough specific details in 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.280 a good enough story that I think I went and 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.000 saw him four times and he essentially told me that 0:16:55.360 --> 0:17:00.560 he had an association with a meth dealer and sale 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:01.880 named Tim Natividad. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.560 Johnson told Jaquis that Natividad not only asked Johnson to 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.000 drive him to the Dome building the night of Mike's murder, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.000 but later also claimed to have driven him to pick 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.440 up an envelope of cash from a Department of Corrections official, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.560 and Jake was found Johnson believable in that many other 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.720 aspects of his story checked out. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.280 I had a huge trove of documents at that time, 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.160 and Johnson was in those documents. Those were police reports 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:35.480 and interview transcripts and the defense attorney's files. Many things 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.920 that Johnson said I could corroborate. 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.879 Liz, who was Natividad's girlfriend at the time, also finds 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.600 Johnson's story plausible. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.520 I bought it personally, I did I believe it. They 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.720 were friends, they were drug partners, they were buddies. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.439 And she confirms that Natividad came into a substantial amount 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.600 of money after Frankie's murder. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.240 He didn't tell me where the money came from, but 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.760 he did come in money. We later found out that 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.920 he hit it in my bathroom, the apartment where Tim died. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.200 He hit it in the fan of the bathroom. There 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.920 was a story that Tim's brother got forty thousand dollars 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.440 out of the bathroom vent of Tim's money. My sister 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.320 Karen is the one that cleaned my apartment out when 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.400 I went to jail, and Karen goes, it's so weirdless. 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.000 The apartment manager came in and was y'all at me 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.480 for taking apart the bathroom vent and I said, I 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.600 didn't do it. You know, you leave me alone. I'm 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.640 not taking the apartment apart. I'm getting Lizza's things out 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.240 of here. I'm like, oh my god, putting two and 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:34.639 two together. That was a true story. 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.280 Tim Natividad died in a violent domestic dispute just two 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.000 weeks after Mike's murder, but his name has remained linked 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.560 to the crime for the past three decades, very notably 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.679 by Conrad Garcia. The inmate Kevin Frankie met with at 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.000 a Portland halfway house. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.760 He said that he felt guilty that Mike was dead, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.639 that he could have prevented it if he'd opened his 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:05.840 mouth sooner. And he started crying, and I started crying 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.960 to see him crying, and he apologized to me that 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.439 he didn't stop it. He said, your brother was a 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.680 good man and he shouldn't have died, and I could 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.880 have prevented it and I didn't. And I said, how 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.520 could you have prevented it? And he said what I 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.800 told the police was not everything that I could have 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:30.840 told him. I knew specifically that Tim Natividad wanted me 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.840 to kill Mike Frankie. Not just a big guy with corrections, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.480 It was specifically Mike Frankie. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.400 It would prove just one of the many unusual tips 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.240 from many unusual sources Kevin has received over the years. 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.879 Another would come via a mysterious package delivered to the 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.200 Frankie family Salem based attorney Steve Crossok. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.439 He says, Hey, I just got a package delivered to 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.680 my office and I drive down there and open it up, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.199 and there's a letter there, handwritten and said I knew 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.159 your brother was killed because he knew too much and 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.440 he was stepping on the wrong toes and things like this. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.240 I think I know who did it, but I can't 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.280 prove who did it. But I might be able to 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.119 help point you in the right direction and get you 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.199 the information because I was involved with these people. And 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.480 if you want to know more about it, then you'll 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.760 meet me at the Holiday in Casino in Reno, Nevada 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:38.760 Friday at three o'clock. If you're not there, then I'll 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:40.600 bets her off. I will never talk to you again. 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.280 And Kratsik says, you're not going to that area. And 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.680 I said, I got to Steve, and he says, you're 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.880 not going to that. This sounds like fish bait. You're 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.119 going down there, You're just go put a fucking bullet 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:59.760 in your head. I had the whole thing, the FedEx envelope, 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:04.440 and took it home, and I remember talking to Phil Stainford, 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.680 reading that letter to him and stuff like that over 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:07.280 the phone. 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.639 Yeah, he told me about this, and we were both 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.040 aware that it could be a complete setup. They'd tried 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.679 to kill him before. It was just too obvious that 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.320 this could be another example of it. I knew how 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:25.560 nervous he was, and of course I was nervous too. 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.680 And I'm looking at the FedEx envelope and I flip 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.480 it over and there's an address on the back of 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.440 the envelope that is reverse printed that I can see 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.199 if I hold it up sideways, and I write the 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.919 address down, and I'd get a Atlas Matt for Reno, 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:48.200 And there's a street address for this thing in Reno, 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.360 and it's got his apartment number in the street address. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.960 And I think this is the Senate best instead of 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.080 meeting at the Halliday And now I know where I 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.919 need to go meet with him. And I borrowed a 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:05.680 a white Eldorado convertible and Liz and I took off 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.119 for Reno and went down to an apartment. Liz waited outside. 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.560 I said, you know, give me fifteen minutes and come 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:15.600 up work all the cops. 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.480 Kevin went upstairs, his hand hovering over his. 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.760 Gun, and I went knocked on the door and the 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.920 door opened up and this guy was standing there and 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.360 he was about five ten and kind of barrel chested, 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:38.000 around fortye And I said, are you Jr? And he 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.919 said yeah, and I said I'm Kevin Frankie. And he 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.080 leaned back and he started to reach around, and I 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.560 pulled my gun out and I said, don't you fucking move. 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.920 And he says, I'm just getting my coat and we'll 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.600 go down to the lobby and talk. And I said, 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:56.520 I'll get your coat, and I shut the door and 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.520 got his coat miture he didn't have a gun, and 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:01.320 down to the lobby and talked. 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.840 Jr. Told Kevin he was a former Reserve sheriff's deputy 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.960 and claimed certain correction officials were actively involved in drug 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:12.720 running and prostitution rings. 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:13.560 Jr. 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.399 Said he moonlit as a security guard at a gated 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:20.320 home overlooking Reno, and that Michael Frankie had visited that 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.240 house once with Scott McAllister. 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.720 He said, I was running outside security. I wasn't allowed 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.119 to come into the house except for a breaker to 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:33.679 use the bathroom. And I remember walking by and I 0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:36.040 could see in there. The windows were kind of tinted 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.800 because it looks out onto the lake and the lake 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.320 reflects back up onto the thing. I hear lake in 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.480 the house and security and everything started to think. 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:46.200 I know Chef. 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:50.200 Jane Jane was the psychic Kevin visited, the one who 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.000 described a house on a lake where his brother's killers 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:57.119 were discussing his murder. Jr. Claimed to have witnessed a 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.920 confrontation one night involving Frankie and a group of men, 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:01.960 and I. 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.520 Can hear him yelling at your brother. It was like 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:06.720 that before you got here, and it'll be like that 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.800