1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Murder and Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio. In April 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen, federal Judge John Acosta ruled in Frank 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Gable's favor. Here's an excerpt from his ninety four page decision. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: Although evidence presented a trial in nineteen ninety one resulted 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: in a guilty verdict, the court concludes that it is 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: more likely than not that no reasonable juror would find 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Gable guilty in light of the totality of all the 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: evidence uncovered since that time, particularly the newly presented evidence 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: of witness recantations. But the State of Oregon is appealing 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: that decision, and Gable is far from free. 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, the case against Gable has been completely demolished. Even 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: The Oregonian, in one of its first stories about the 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: judge's ruling, cited several legal experts who said the state 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: couldn't possibly retry Gable because there was no case against 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: him left. The case is completely insuranced. The one thing 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: we know for sure about this case is that Gable 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 2: didn't do it. The investigation was a cover up. And 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: the problem with that, of course, is that it just 19 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: leave so many unanswered questions, and. 20 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: It's an unsolved murder. As we've sorted through the details 21 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: of the Frankie murder investigation and Frank Gable's trial, the 22 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: same name surface time and time again. Perhaps the most 23 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: significant is Johnny Krause, who you'll recall initially confessed to 24 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: the murder, had detailed knowledge of Mike's wounds, a new 25 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: information about the crime scene he wouldn't have known unless 26 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: he'd been there. But these things were dismissed by police. 27 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: Kraus recanted and was granted immunity not to recant. His 28 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 1: recantation and mention of all of this was excluded from 29 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Gable's trial by Judge Gregory West. Kraus is no longer alive, 30 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: but he may have been one of only a handful 31 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: of people who could answer questions about Michael's actual killer. 32 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: Well, the thing about Kraus that you just can't get 33 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: past is that he knew things he couldn't have known 34 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: unless he'd been there, whether he did the stabbing or not. 35 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: He knew where the wounds were, and of course he 36 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: knew about the man who turned and ran across the 37 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: Green expanse towards the State hospital and around the Big 38 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: Green generator. He knew things that he couldn't have known. 39 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: Otherwise unless he was there. As we've covered, Kevin Frankie 40 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: first learned about Kraus during a reading with a psychic. 41 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: Whether you believe in psychics or not, the factorymins this 42 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: psychic was right. The police did have a man in custody. 43 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: She was correct about Johnny Krause, and as it would 44 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: turn out, many other things, but we'll get to that later. 45 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: Here's Kevin. 46 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: She went by Jane Doe, and she didn't tell me 47 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 3: what her real name was until after I met her, 48 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: because she didn't want me putting her name out there. 49 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: She wasn't a psychic for profit. She never charged me 50 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 3: a penny. She was did psychic work for the Boston 51 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: Police Department, and I got referred to her by my 52 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: roofing supply guy's son worked for the Marion County Sheriff's Department. 53 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: Jane had helped the Marion County Sheriff's Department a couple 54 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: of times, one very recently that a gentleman had done 55 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: disappeared and they were sure if he'd been abducted or 56 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: what happened, And she described the area where he could 57 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: be found, and they found him within like fifty or 58 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: one hundred feet of where she told them to go. 59 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: I called her, I said, I didn't tell her my 60 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 3: name other than Kevin. I need to speak to you 61 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: about my brother's death. She was describing the people that 62 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: were involved in the descriptions, and the one guy is tall, 63 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: good looking, with her comb back, kind of sandy brown hair. 64 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: I didn't know any of these things or any of 65 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: this stuff that she was talking about. She described the 66 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: dome building to a t, and the hallway, the entryway, 67 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: the entry doors, the floyer. You know, this was back 68 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: before there was the internet being used at all, and 69 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: there was no way to research by Frankie. She only 70 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: knew Kevin. 71 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't get past that. Really, it's what do 72 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: you believe in psychics or not. She knew they had 73 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: someone in custody, and she knew that his name was Johnny. 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: Started with a hard c or a kay. This was 75 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: before the internet. I mean, she couldn't have picked it 76 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: up on the news. It wasn't in the news on 77 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: the East Coast. There's no way she could have known. 78 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: That's true. It certainly wasn't a national news story at 79 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: that point. 80 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: Oh No. 81 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: Local television reporter Eric Mason believes Krause wasn't pursued to 82 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: protect others. 83 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 4: Well, I think was the biggest factor and why it 84 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 4: was that Frank Gable not convicted, was that the reasonable 85 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 4: doubt question, That is Johnny Krause being someone who knew 86 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 4: details and said he'd done it, and the massive amount 87 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 4: of information that surrounded the age that represented the Corrections 88 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 4: department at all of the stuff that had been reported 89 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 4: by Steve and by Phil and by myself, it was 90 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 4: just as if none of that could make its way in. 91 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 4: It only had to do with Frank Gable and what 92 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 4: surrounded Frank Gable. 93 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 5: So did it seem to an extent that the judge 94 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 5: had cleansed the possibility of anything coming into the courtroom 95 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 5: that could possibly change that. 96 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 4: Yes, And then I think that is why the Johnny 97 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 4: Crouse story is so important to it, because Johnny Krouse 98 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 4: not only admits to doing it, but he has information 99 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: that had never been out anywhere. You really needed to 100 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 4: have his story in there to be able to provide 101 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 4: reasonable doubt for the jury to be able to say 102 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 4: it's very possible this other person did it, and there 103 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 4: was no one else to look at that way. 104 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: Johnny Krause endured an extremely abusive upbringing and was a 105 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: fringe character even by the standards of Salem's criminal underworld, 106 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: and not necessarily the most reliable witness. Then reporter for 107 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: The Statesman Journal, Steve Jackson interviewed Kraus at the time. 108 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 6: I met Johnny. Obviously I wrote some stories regarding his 109 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 6: involvement here. You know, he was playing this for what 110 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 6: might he accomplish out of it? I don't know to 111 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 6: this day. I know he both confessed to it and 112 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 6: then recanted his his confession, and you know, you'd hear 113 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 6: he confessed again, and then he recanted again. And with 114 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 6: that whole class of people prison inmates, it's hard to tell. 115 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 6: They're so used to, uh, you know, lying as a 116 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 6: way of life that it was it was difficult. I 117 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 6: didn't find him to be like some of them, which is, 118 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 6: you know, constantly conniving and you just get this feeling 119 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 6: from him that that's all they're about. I didn't quite 120 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 6: get that from him one of the interviews. When I 121 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 6: talked to him, I got this feeling that he was 122 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 6: kind of scared of where he was in all of this. 123 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 6: But I wasn't sure. Is that because he's guilty of 124 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 6: murder or is it because he's afraid of the state 125 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 6: police investigation who you know that he might be going 126 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 6: up against their wishes. So it was difficult to tell. 127 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 6: I wouldn't have called him the brightest bulb in the 128 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 6: entire pack either. 129 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: But Kraus's confession could very well have saved frank Gable 130 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: from being convicted of Michael Frankie's murder and sentenced to 131 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: life in prison. Still, the question remains, why would Kraus 132 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: have confessed to the murder in the first place. Here 133 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: are Phil and Kevin. 134 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: He was a very strange care He had a history 135 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 2: of confessing. 136 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: He liked to confess. 137 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: He was brought up to feel guilty about everything. And 138 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: one of the things that's noted in the police reports 139 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: is that he would confess to the crimes he was 140 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: caught for and confessed to others as well. So my 141 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: theory is that he was certainly there. He knew things 142 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: that he couldn't have known unless he was there. 143 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: Correct He confessed because he didn't think that he would 144 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: be charged with murder. He thought that he would be 145 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: helpful in confessing this information that he had the nature 146 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: number and the location of the wounds, but that it 147 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 3: wasn't his hand that had the knife in it. But 148 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 3: he saw enough or heard enough from buck Burgess personally 149 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: in his relationship with buck Burgess that he could transmit 150 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: that information in the form of a confession or in 151 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: form of I know what happened. 152 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: Remember buck Burgess. He was the former cellmate of Conrad 153 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: Nick Garcia, the inmate who claimed he'd been approached by 154 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: Tentatividad to kill Michael Frankie at the request of the 155 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: Assistant Attorney General, Scott McAllister. Buck Burgess was also married 156 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: to Melody Rothschild Burgess Garcia, who was openly muling drugs 157 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: into the prison. The same Melody Garcia who sold her 158 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: daughter Carrie to Tim Natividad, The Carrie Rothchild who places 159 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: Scott McAllister in her home meeting with Tim Natividad and 160 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: Melody buck Burgess lived at the address. Kraus told the 161 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: DA and police the knife that killed Michael Frankie came 162 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: from back to Phil and Kevin and Johnny Krause. 163 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: I think he was there. I think he was probably 164 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: he could have very well. I think he was. He 165 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: was definitely watching across the street. 166 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 3: It was definitely across the streets, so he could have been, 167 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: you know, right there at the parking lot. 168 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: And of course that is one of the main arguments 169 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: in the Habeas Corpus petition that got gabled out, that 170 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: here was someone who'd confessed to the murder and new 171 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: things he couldn't have known unless he was there, And 172 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: he didn't come up in the trial. He was not 173 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: a his name was not allowed in as natividads was 174 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: not allowed in. 175 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: Pat Frankie questioned Kraus in prison. 176 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 7: Honey, Krauss was just a creepy guy who eavesdropped and 177 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 7: heard more than he probably should have about what went on. 178 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 7: He had a reputation of being kind of a window peeper, 179 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 7: sneaky son of a bitch, and heard that after the fact. 180 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 7: And I don't think he did it back. 181 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: To Phil whatever it was, you know, whatever his role 182 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 2: in it was, and I think he was there looking out. 183 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: He was a lookout that night. I think that he 184 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: may have been the taller of the two men that 185 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: Hunsaker saw that night, the one who turned and ran. 186 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: In fact, that's what he said he did. He ran 187 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: to the medical building and around the big green generator 188 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: quite possibly the one who turned and walked back to 189 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 2: the Dome building at a leisurely pace, as Hunsaker said 190 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: was Nativity. 191 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: Years later, Kevin tracked Johnny Krouse down and questioned. 192 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 8: Him, probably about a year after the trial that we're 193 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 8: talking about, two years, two and a half years after 194 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 8: Mike was killed. I got a hold of Johnny's lee press, 195 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 8: so I called, and he wasn't a bushel of information. 196 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 8: He was very tentative. You know, what do you want? 197 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 8: I just want to be left alone. There is a 198 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 8: long pause, and he says, you don't understand. They can 199 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 8: reach out and tap you any where you are any day. 200 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 8: He said, I just want to be left alone. I 201 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 8: don't even know if this is fucking you talking. 202 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: To me, and he hung up. 203 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: So his implication was if he spoke to you, they 204 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: could kill him. 205 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 8: Yeah, that was the implication. 206 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: Back to Phil and timnativit Ad. 207 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: The reason I think that it's very likely that Native 208 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: a Dad is the man in the pinstripe suit is 209 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: that he resembles the composite drawing that the DA's office 210 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 2: tried to keep under wraps for such a long time. 211 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: And then of course you have Greg Kelsey's story, which 212 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: he told to Nigel Jake, was how he took Tim 213 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: Natividad to the Dome Building that night, picked him up 214 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: later he had blood on him, And this is a 215 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: story that Kelsey had told people in the underworld shortly 216 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: after the murder. So it makes the most sense. 217 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: Yes, here's local television reporter Eric Mason. 218 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 4: So that sketch that everybody wonders, who is this person 219 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 4: right there at the door of the Dome Building just 220 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 4: before Michael Frankie is stabbed? 221 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Who is that man? 222 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: And Liz Godlove identifies that man as Rooster, also known 223 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 4: as Tividad. 224 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 9: I strongly believed that, Yeah, unless you can show me otherwise. Unfortunately, 225 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 9: I believe. 226 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: That, and that he also knows details, and he also 227 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 4: makes statements that are indicative of a person who has 228 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 4: murdered by Frankie. But as all of this comes out, 229 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 4: it's clear what happens. Then the police do basically say, listen, 230 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 4: Tim to Tevidad's dead. What do we do with that? 231 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 4: We can't make any sense. 232 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 10: Out of that. 233 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 4: And so all the time that they put into putting 234 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 4: that sketch out everywhere seems to be just like flushed 235 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 4: down a toilet. 236 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: Here are pill and Kevin. 237 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: And for a while they tried, you know, after we 238 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: were Jackson and I were making an issue with this 239 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: in the papers, they tried to put out the story 240 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: that it was a Xerox salesman who'd been there working 241 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: that night. I found the Xerox salesman and he was 242 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: had ready, why are you ready? Sh hair? And he 243 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: said he was wearing a tweed coat that night. So 244 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: I mean, that's another lie. Why are they lying about 245 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: the man in the pinstripe suit? 246 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: And they maintained that lie throughout the entire case, even 247 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: after it was abundantly clear that it was not the 248 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: copy of repair man, when it was, you know, patently false. 249 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: They didn't want the public to know who the man 250 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: in the pinstriped suit was because once that name comes out, 251 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: who that person is, then you have a nest of 252 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: thieves that get investigated. It starts pushing buttons with government. 253 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 5: People, because if he was recognized, it would have led 254 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 5: to people who would have led to people who did 255 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 5: not want to be exposed. 256 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: Exactly, you couldn't possibly pretend to know who killed Michael 257 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: Frankie without knowing who the man in the Pinstripe suit was. 258 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: And based on the number of people who have connected 259 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: him to the murder and noted an undeniable resemblance, the 260 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: likelihood is that Tendativitad was the man in the Pinstripe suit. 261 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: Natividad's former drug partner and cellmate, Greg Kelsey Johnson, also 262 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: linked Natividad to the murder. Here's the reporter he spoke 263 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: to the Willamett Weeks, Nigel Jaquis. 264 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 11: So Greg Johnson contacted me from local jail. He was 265 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 11: in jail in an adjacent county, and he said that 266 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 11: he had information about who really killed Michael Frankie and 267 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 11: how I was skeptical as you would be, but I 268 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 11: decided I would go. He said enough to make me 269 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 11: willing to go see him, And I went and saw him, 270 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 11: and he had enough information and enough specific details in 271 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 11: a good enough story that I think I went and 272 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 11: saw him four times and he essentially told me that 273 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 11: he had an association with a meth dealer and sale 274 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 11: named Tim Natividad. 275 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: Johnson told Jaquis that Natividad not only asked Johnson to 276 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: drive him to the Dome building the night of Mike's murder, 277 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: but later also claimed to have driven him to pick 278 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: up an envelope of cash from a Department of Corrections official, 279 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: and Jake was found Johnson believable in that many other 280 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: aspects of his story checked out. 281 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 11: I had a huge trove of documents at that time, 282 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 11: and Johnson was in those documents. Those were police reports 283 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 11: and interview transcripts and the defense attorney's files. Many things 284 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 11: that Johnson said I could corroborate. 285 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: Liz, who was Natividad's girlfriend at the time, also finds 286 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: Johnson's story plausible. 287 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 9: I bought it personally, I did I believe it. They 288 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 9: were friends, they were drug partners, they were buddies. 289 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: And she confirms that Natividad came into a substantial amount 290 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: of money after Frankie's murder. 291 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 9: He didn't tell me where the money came from, but 292 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 9: he did come in money. We later found out that 293 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 9: he hit it in my bathroom, the apartment where Tim died. 294 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 9: He hit it in the fan of the bathroom. There 295 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 9: was a story that Tim's brother got forty thousand dollars 296 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 9: out of the bathroom vent of Tim's money. My sister 297 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 9: Karen is the one that cleaned my apartment out when 298 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 9: I went to jail, and Karen goes, it's so weirdless. 299 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 9: The apartment manager came in and was y'all at me 300 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 9: for taking apart the bathroom vent and I said, I 301 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 9: didn't do it. You know, you leave me alone. I'm 302 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 9: not taking the apartment apart. I'm getting Lizza's things out 303 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 9: of here. I'm like, oh my god, putting two and 304 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 9: two together. That was a true story. 305 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: Tim Natividad died in a violent domestic dispute just two 306 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: weeks after Mike's murder, but his name has remained linked 307 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: to the crime for the past three decades, very notably 308 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: by Conrad Garcia. The inmate Kevin Frankie met with at 309 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: a Portland halfway house. 310 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: He said that he felt guilty that Mike was dead, 311 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: that he could have prevented it if he'd opened his 312 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: mouth sooner. And he started crying, and I started crying 313 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: to see him crying, and he apologized to me that 314 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 3: he didn't stop it. He said, your brother was a 315 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 3: good man and he shouldn't have died, and I could 316 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 3: have prevented it and I didn't. And I said, how 317 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 3: could you have prevented it? And he said what I 318 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: told the police was not everything that I could have 319 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: told him. I knew specifically that Tim Natividad wanted me 320 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 3: to kill Mike Frankie. Not just a big guy with corrections, 321 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 3: It was specifically Mike Frankie. 322 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: It would prove just one of the many unusual tips 323 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: from many unusual sources Kevin has received over the years. 324 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: Another would come via a mysterious package delivered to the 325 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: Frankie family Salem based attorney Steve Crossok. 326 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: He says, Hey, I just got a package delivered to 327 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 3: my office and I drive down there and open it up, 328 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 3: and there's a letter there, handwritten and said I knew 329 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 3: your brother was killed because he knew too much and 330 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 3: he was stepping on the wrong toes and things like this. 331 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: I think I know who did it, but I can't 332 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: prove who did it. But I might be able to 333 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: help point you in the right direction and get you 334 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 3: the information because I was involved with these people. And 335 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: if you want to know more about it, then you'll 336 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 3: meet me at the Holiday in Casino in Reno, Nevada 337 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: Friday at three o'clock. If you're not there, then I'll 338 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: bets her off. I will never talk to you again. 339 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: And Kratsik says, you're not going to that area. And 340 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 3: I said, I got to Steve, and he says, you're 341 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 3: not going to that. This sounds like fish bait. You're 342 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: going down there, You're just go put a fucking bullet 343 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: in your head. I had the whole thing, the FedEx envelope, 344 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 3: and took it home, and I remember talking to Phil Stainford, 345 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 3: reading that letter to him and stuff like that over 346 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 3: the phone. 347 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, he told me about this, and we were both 348 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: aware that it could be a complete setup. They'd tried 349 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 2: to kill him before. It was just too obvious that 350 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: this could be another example of it. I knew how 351 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: nervous he was, and of course I was nervous too. 352 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 3: And I'm looking at the FedEx envelope and I flip 353 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: it over and there's an address on the back of 354 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 3: the envelope that is reverse printed that I can see 355 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 3: if I hold it up sideways, and I write the 356 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 3: address down, and I'd get a Atlas Matt for Reno, 357 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 3: And there's a street address for this thing in Reno, 358 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 3: and it's got his apartment number in the street address. 359 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: And I think this is the Senate best instead of 360 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 3: meeting at the Halliday And now I know where I 361 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 3: need to go meet with him. And I borrowed a 362 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 3: a white Eldorado convertible and Liz and I took off 363 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: for Reno and went down to an apartment. Liz waited outside. 364 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 3: I said, you know, give me fifteen minutes and come 365 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: up work all the cops. 366 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: Kevin went upstairs, his hand hovering over his. 367 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: Gun, and I went knocked on the door and the 368 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 3: door opened up and this guy was standing there and 369 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 3: he was about five ten and kind of barrel chested, 370 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: around fortye And I said, are you Jr? And he 371 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 3: said yeah, and I said I'm Kevin Frankie. And he 372 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: leaned back and he started to reach around, and I 373 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: pulled my gun out and I said, don't you fucking move. 374 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 3: And he says, I'm just getting my coat and we'll 375 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: go down to the lobby and talk. And I said, 376 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: I'll get your coat, and I shut the door and 377 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: got his coat miture he didn't have a gun, and 378 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: down to the lobby and talked. 379 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Jr. Told Kevin he was a former Reserve sheriff's deputy 380 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: and claimed certain correction officials were actively involved in drug 381 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: running and prostitution rings. 382 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: Jr. 383 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: Said he moonlit as a security guard at a gated 384 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: home overlooking Reno, and that Michael Frankie had visited that 385 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: house once with Scott McAllister. 386 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 3: He said, I was running outside security. I wasn't allowed 387 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 3: to come into the house except for a breaker to 388 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 3: use the bathroom. And I remember walking by and I 389 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: could see in there. The windows were kind of tinted 390 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: because it looks out onto the lake and the lake 391 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 3: reflects back up onto the thing. I hear lake in 392 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: the house and security and everything started to think. 393 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 7: I know Chef. 394 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: Jane Jane was the psychic Kevin visited, the one who 395 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: described a house on a lake where his brother's killers 396 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: were discussing his murder. Jr. Claimed to have witnessed a 397 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: confrontation one night involving Frankie and a group of men, 398 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: and I. 399 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: Can hear him yelling at your brother. It was like 400 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 3: that before you got here, and it'll be like that 401 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: when they drag you out of here. And McAllister was 402 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: behind your brother. It looked like he was either restraining 403 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 3: him or holding an arm. And there was a lot 404 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: of anger in there. And I had to keep moving 405 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 3: because I couldn't stop. That would make him suspicious, but 406 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: I think there's something there that you need to look at. 407 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: After the meeting with JR, Kevin and Liz drove to 408 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: that house which Jane the Psychic had described in detail, 409 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: down to the gates that surrounded it. 410 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 3: From the house deck, you can look out and see 411 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: the lake and it's the house on the lake with 412 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 3: the video cameras and the iron gates. And there's two 413 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 3: guys in a pickup truck. One guy gets out and 414 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 3: he's got a muddeled ninety four Winchester and he comes 415 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 3: walking over to the car and he says, can I 416 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 3: help you? And I said, well, I'm from Oregon and 417 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 3: I was looking for property for sale. And he says, 418 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: do you see any fucking for sale signs? And I 419 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 3: said nope. So I said, well, look, if anything comes 420 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 3: up for sale, would you mind giving me a call? 421 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: And I hand him a business card and it was 422 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: one of Mike's business cards from the Department of Corrections. 423 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 3: And he looks at it and he looks at me, 424 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 3: and he starts walking backwards to the truck and very 425 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: quickly he goes up and he has the buzzer and 426 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 3: he's on the phone. 427 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 8: And I get out of there. 428 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: Kevin believes that that was the house Michael Frankie had 429 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: gone to visit on the ill fated ski trip, the 430 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: one he abruptly returned from. Shaken called him up later. 431 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: I said, how is the snow? And he said, I 432 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 3: never got on the hill and I said what do 433 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: you mean? He says, I never got on the fucking 434 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: hill and that was who He did not want to 435 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 3: talk about it. He did start saying, I've got to 436 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 3: replace people. Were going to start surrounding myself with people 437 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 3: that I can trust. 438 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: That ski trip would have occurred a year before Mike's 439 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: murder and afterwards, According to multiple sources, Frankie and the 440 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: Corrections lawyer assistant A. G. Scott McCallister were very much 441 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: on the outs. Scott McAllister left Oregon for Utah just 442 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: two weeks before Frankie was killed, and that's where Linda Parker, 443 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: McAllister's former secretary and girlfriend, claims to have overheard him 444 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: talking about Mike's murder. 445 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 12: Scott was talking to Grace and Harold. He said that 446 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 12: was really stupid about Frankie's murder because it was supposed 447 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 12: to look like a suicide, but was really part of 448 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 12: my language fucked up or fed up. Harold and Scott 449 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 12: went on conversing about it, and Harold said that it 450 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 12: is no real loss because nobody liked Frankie anyway, and 451 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 12: now that Frankie was out of the picture, Harold could 452 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 12: use the Oregon Department of Corrections again as a reference, 453 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 12: because nobody would be there to soil his name. 454 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: To this day, Michael Frankie's death remains an unsolved murder, 455 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: and thanks to a federal judge's ruling, the man imprisoned 456 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: for the past three decades for that murder is finally free. 457 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: But though the case against Frank Gable has been demolished, 458 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: instead of investigating the people responsible for the murder, Oregon's 459 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: Attorney General is appealing Gable's ruling on a legal technicality. 460 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Why are they appealing the judge's decision. 461 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: Well, whether it's just a reflexive, bureaucratic cover your ass 462 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: response or pure politics. Because you have to remember that 463 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: Ellen Rosenbloom, the state's ag, was a protege of Neil Goldschmidt, 464 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: who was so instrumental in the original cover up. It's 465 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: got to be one of the ugliest aspects of this 466 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: whole case. 467 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: Here's the Portland Tribunes Jim Redden. 468 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 13: It's an unsolved murder. You know, I believe Frank Gable 469 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 13: is innocent. The judges said he's probably innocent, which is 470 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 13: a pretty amazing statement from a judge. If he is innocent, 471 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 13: then the real killer has never been caught. If it's 472 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 13: a nativit ad, he's dead. If it's Johnny Crause, he's dead. 473 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 13: If it's somebody else, maybe they're not dead. 474 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: Here's reporter Nigel J quest Or. 475 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 11: A state with a low rate of violent crime, most 476 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 11: of the crimes take place are not this kind of 477 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 11: crime that had a level of political intrigue, that had 478 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 11: a level of being connected to this golden boy governor. 479 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 11: So even today people don't even know who Michael Frankie is. 480 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 11: But there hasn't in the thirty years since he was killed, 481 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 11: been anything like this. Any killing is horrible killing, but 482 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 11: it's just it is unique, and I think a lot 483 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 11: of people were never satisfied that it was solved, and 484 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 11: they're even less satisfied today. 485 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: Here's former state Senator Jim Hill's take. 486 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 14: It's hard to imagine how much time has gone by. 487 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 11: Well, many people have no idea. 488 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 14: They don't know anything about Michael Frankie, and so it's 489 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 14: important that these things keep coming up and doing things 490 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 14: like you all are doing to let people know, Yeah, 491 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 14: this did happen, and it happened. 492 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 2: It happened right here. 493 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 14: It's unsolved, but at least some of this has come 494 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 14: to light, rather than having it left where the perpetrators 495 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 14: wanted to be left is that here's this guilty guy, really, 496 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 14: and that's all that it is. Now we know better. 497 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 14: I always felt that as time went on there might 498 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 14: be people who would say things now that they would 499 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 14: have been afraid to talk about under those circumstances earlier, 500 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 14: and so here we are. 501 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: Former state Representative Chuck Sides agrees. 502 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 15: I would hope that the bigger story is out now 503 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 15: the judge validated it. Now people can't ignore it. We 504 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 15: now know, both locally and nationally that the Justice Department fabricates, 505 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 15: so do the cops. That shouldn't shock me, but it does. 506 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 15: So I don't expect that people are going to ever 507 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 15: totally except now what's being said honestly and for the 508 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 15: first time, but eventually they will because they'll be reminded 509 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 15: and reminded. 510 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: Reminded Kevin Frankie believes that while one hand held the knife, 511 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: many others had a hand in Mike's murder. 512 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 3: This wasn't something that Tim sat around one night and 513 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: dreamed up and said, I think I'll go kill Mike Frankie. 514 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 3: Somebody put him up to it. So those are the 515 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,239 Speaker 3: people that are more guilty because they did this, and 516 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: because they were protecting their own self interests and they're 517 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 3: covering their own asses to get rid of Mike. Does 518 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: that make them less culpable because they didn't have the 519 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: knife in their hands and they had some other person 520 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 3: do it. No, those are the people that are the 521 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 3: biggest fucking slime balls in the world. And they had 522 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 3: their freedom and their liberties and their life because they 523 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 3: had Tim Nativity killed my brother. And that that's an insult, 524 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: It's a slap in the face. 525 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: The Tividides was another life. They were willing. 526 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 3: To throw away, another victim if he will. And it's 527 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 3: hard for me to say that because he is a 528 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 3: psychopathic killer. 529 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: We may never be able to force balance from the 530 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: scales of justice in regards to Michael Frankie's murder, but 531 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: we have now placed a very large spotlight on those 532 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: who've hidden their roles in his death under the protective 533 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: shadows of power, privilege, and corruption for far too long. 534 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: Here's Phil. 535 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 2: It's obviously an open case. Gable didn't do it, someone 536 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: else did it. But it's also obvious that the state 537 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: is not interested in pursuing it. 538 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: So what did you want to do? What did you 539 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: hope this podcast would accomplish? 540 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: Well? Most immediately, of course, to draw attention to what 541 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 2: the state is still trying to do to Gable. It's 542 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 2: really unconscionable, and maybe let Ellen Rosenbloom know she can't 543 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: get away with it. 544 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: You know, the state of Oregon could do the right thing. 545 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: They could open the case. They could go after the 546 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: people who've hidden behind their privilege and their positions, and 547 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: they could do that because there is no statute of 548 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: limitations on murder. 549 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know they're not going to do it. Governments 550 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 2: never never admit they're wrong, especially when the wrongs have 551 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: been so egregious as this. The cover up has been 552 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: going on for thirty years, and I fully expect it 553 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 2: to continue. 554 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: I can only hope that this podcast has made people 555 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: who have reason to feel guilt very uncomfortable. 556 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 2: I certainly you concur yes, at the very least, I 557 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: hope we can do that and maybe make a difference 558 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: at the margins. The one thing that has to be 559 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: addressed right now, of course, is the state's attempt to 560 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 2: put Gable back in prison, even though it's obvious that 561 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 2: he didn't commit the crime. 562 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: For both Frankie brothers, pursuing justice for Mike's murder also 563 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: includes correcting the injustice of Frank Gable's conviction. 564 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 8: Mike would have just been livid knowing that there is 565 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 8: an innocent man dying in prison every day. And you know, 566 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 8: I had two fears, one that Frank would kill himself, 567 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 8: whether Frank would be killed, and the joy of the 568 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 8: day that I got the news that he was going 569 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 8: to be released. It was, you know, better than any Christmas. 570 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 8: It was amazing. And that was when I talked to 571 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 8: my brother and I said, let's set up a gofund 572 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 8: the account and see if we can raise some funds 573 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 8: to help Frank transition from thirty years of hell into 574 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 8: a decent life with his new life and a new life. 575 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 8: The gofund me account is up and running, and there's 576 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 8: money trickling in We've got over six thousand dollars right now. 577 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 8: The state through another wrench into the gears. They were 578 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 8: satisfied that anicent Man was freed, so they're. 579 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 16: Appealing the judges orders to release him. And there is 580 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 16: now a petition change dot org to petition the Attorney 581 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 16: General Ellen Rosenbloom to have the state withdraw their appeal 582 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 16: and declare frank And then I said, dam. 583 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: Here's Michael's big brother, Pat Frankie on Mike's legacy. 584 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 7: I had a letter that a young man wrote me 585 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 7: and he said, you don't know me, but I was 586 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,800 Speaker 7: seventeen sixteen, seventeen year old punk sitting in a waiting 587 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 7: area waiting to go before judge for a sentencing, and 588 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 7: your brother walked through and he stopped and he said, kid, 589 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 7: you're going to make a big decision here in about 590 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 7: five minutes. If you choose to be a hard ass 591 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 7: and smart. I was like, you're going to never get 592 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 7: out of prison. He said he didn't need to stop 593 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 7: and talk to me, he was just passing to but 594 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 7: he said it really affected me. I thought about it, 595 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 7: went in with a whole different attitude. Did my time, 596 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 7: got clean, came out, got a scholarship to the Santa 597 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 7: Fe Community College. He said, I tell my dad all 598 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 7: the time, Judge Frankie saved my life. He said, I'd 599 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 7: still be in a joint if I hadn't listened to him. 600 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 7: That was the kind of guy was. 601 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: Here's how Alice Clawson, Mike's deputy director, would like to 602 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: remember Michael Frankie. 603 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 10: As a friend and has a brilliant guy that whose 604 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 10: life was ended way too soon because he had a 605 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 10: lot to give to the criminal justice for it was 606 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 10: not just in Oregon, but probably anywhere in the United States. 607 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: This podcast is a tribute to Michael Frankie and to 608 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: the love and loyalty of his brother's Pat and Kevin, 609 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: who've spent the last three decades fighting to expose the 610 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: people responsible for his death. We'd like to give the 611 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: final word to Michael Frankie, the man certain individuals made 612 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: great effort to silence. 613 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 17: For those people who think of the Corrections Department as 614 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 17: my problem, please remember that the people under the jurisdiction 615 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 17: of the Department of Corrections are people who spend a 616 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 17: lot of time in the community. In fact, the vast 617 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 17: majority of them are in the community right now. I 618 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 17: spend enough time as a juvenile judge in juvenile corrections 619 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 17: to recognize that we've got a lot better shot at them, 620 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 17: especially in those single digit years, than we do when 621 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 17: they come into my system. The Department of Corrections is 622 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 17: not my operation. It's our operation. 623 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 18: Murder and Oregon is hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and 624 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 18: Phil Stanford. Executive producers are Noel Brown, Lauren Bret Pacheco, 625 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 18: and Phil Stanford. Supervising producer and lead editor is Taylor Chacogne. 626 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 18: Sound designed by Tristan McNeil, Story editing by Matt Riddle, 627 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 18: Written by Phil Stanford, Matt Riddle, and Lauren Bright Pacheco. 628 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 18: Music written and performed by the Diamond Street Players and 629 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 18: mixed by Taylor Chaqoine with music supervision by Noel Brown. 630 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 18: Additional music by Tristan McNeil. Archival elements courtesy of kg 631 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 18: W and Portland, Oregon. The station behind the podcast, Urged 632 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 18: to Kill Murder and Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio. 633 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 5: The Man