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Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your

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Speaker 1: host Elisa Donovan.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 2: What if the danger wasn't outside your home, but already

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Speaker 2: inside it. That's the setup behind kidnapped in her own home,

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Speaker 2: the Martha Corelli story. It's a story that starts with

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Speaker 2: something almost unthinkable, a fugitive hiding in your house, waiting

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Speaker 2: for the moment to take control. From there, it turns

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Speaker 2: into a psychological game of survival, one where every decision matters,

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Speaker 2: every move could be your last, and the only way

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Speaker 2: out is to outthink the person holding you captive. Today

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Speaker 2: we're joined by the film's director, Tracy Hayes, and Tyler Perez,

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Speaker 2: who plays the man at the center of it all.

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Speaker 1: Tracy and Tyler, Welcome to Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having us excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much for spending this time with

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Speaker 2: me today. I want to say straight up, Tyler, I'm

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Speaker 2: a huge fan of Abbot Elementary, but I also we

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Speaker 2: should let people know this is quite a departure from that.

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Speaker 4: Very different very They're on opposite sides of the spectrum for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yes, So this movie, let's just quickly so this

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Speaker 2: is not based on one specific true crime case, but

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Speaker 2: it is based on a true crime story. So let's

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Speaker 2: just talk a little bit about the plot of the movie.

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Speaker 2: Martha Corelli leads a quiet life. She's married played by

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Speaker 2: Santa Katik, and her life is shattered when this escaped

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Speaker 2: convict comes into her home and takes her hostage. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: do you guys want to tell any more about the

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Speaker 2: plot quickly?

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Speaker 1: For people that don't might not know it.

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Speaker 4: I'll let Tracy to take that away. She's the expert

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Speaker 4: on that for sure. This is her baby.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the Marther Curley story. It is based on

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Speaker 3: actual real life events that happened in the seventies. And

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Speaker 3: Anne Rule, who is a true crime novelist, is a

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Speaker 3: New York Times bestselling author, and she's her her and

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Speaker 3: her own right is a fascinating story. But in terms

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Speaker 3: of Martha Corelli, you know that we tried to stay

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Speaker 3: true to the characters as much as possible within the

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Speaker 3: reasons of obviously creative liberties that we took because it

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Speaker 3: doesn't take place in the seventies, but it's very much

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Speaker 3: a survival story and what I appreciated about just the

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Speaker 3: story and the script was that it wasn't about a

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Speaker 3: damsel in distress who didn't have a point of view,

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Speaker 3: and it wasn't painting the character that Tyler plays very

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Speaker 3: much as a one dimensional character.

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Speaker 2: Firstly, this idea that somebody could be, you know, hiding

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Speaker 2: in your home without you knowing is probably one of

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Speaker 2: the most terrifying nightmares that anybody could imagine. So was

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Speaker 2: that a part of what you really wanted to lean

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Speaker 2: into directorially in the beginning that people had that true

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Speaker 2: sense because you very much feel that as a as

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Speaker 2: a viewer, it's chilling.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad to hear you say that. I'm just getting

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Speaker 3: the feedback. It's just so delightful to hear. When I

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Speaker 3: read the script for the first time. I finished the scripts,

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Speaker 3: got up and locked my front door. That's true. I

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Speaker 3: actually did that. And I live in a quiet neighborhood

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Speaker 3: where everything is seemingly great. I have great neighbors, I

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Speaker 3: go for walks, I know everybody. And after I finished

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Speaker 3: that scripts, I was really unsettled because we actually, I

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Speaker 3: actually my neighbors were actually robbed next door, and it

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Speaker 3: was just, you know, no one was heart It was,

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Speaker 3: but it just kind of cheat. It definitely got me

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Speaker 3: thinking about how your life is going one way and

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Speaker 3: you feel safe and you've made this little, beautiful home

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Speaker 3: and this beautiful family, and so I just the fact

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Speaker 3: that you brought up like, yes, it is this kind

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Speaker 3: of this is a very big fear, right we we

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Speaker 3: the that is real that happened very close, too close

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Speaker 3: to home, and so I I was definitely intentional about

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Speaker 3: how we don't really see like when the surprise of

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Speaker 3: h uh of Tyler's character being in the like when

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Speaker 3: we discover him in the film. Obviously that's that's no

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Speaker 3: spoiler alert, it's in the trailer, but how that whole

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Speaker 3: circumstance goes around in the idea of being personally violated

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Speaker 3: in that way, just like in terms of being in

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Speaker 3: your own space and your comfort and your home. So

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Speaker 3: as for me, I approached it very much from a

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Speaker 3: place of mmm, we are with Martha's perspective, and I

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Speaker 3: it was very much a slow burn and and at

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Speaker 3: the pace of the film, while it is a very

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Speaker 3: very tight ride, I wanted there to be moments that

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Speaker 3: really kind of gave you goosebumps and how you lean

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Speaker 3: in and that was done through like slow pushions and

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Speaker 3: more moody lighting. Yes, a lot of the film takes

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Speaker 3: place at night, so we are really intentional about lighting

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Speaker 3: with practical lights, so like in the home it would

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Speaker 3: be lamps or at certain scenes we were using fluorescent

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Speaker 3: lights or moonlight, so we were really that was an

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Speaker 3: intentional thing like that.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciated that because I know, you know, I

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Speaker 2: know how hard it is to make these movies sometimes

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Speaker 2: and you don't always have a plethora of time and

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Speaker 2: resources and all those sorts of things. So it really

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Speaker 2: is very it feels very intentional and very well crafted.

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Speaker 1: So I really appreciated that.

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Speaker 2: And Tyler, so you're playing the person in control of

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Speaker 2: the situation, but it's it's both psychological and physical. And

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Speaker 2: how did you like, how did you approach you know,

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Speaker 2: how did you think about your character needing to be

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Speaker 2: both menacing and sympathetic.

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Speaker 4: That was actually what drew me to this project in

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Speaker 4: this role for sure, was that, you know, I think,

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Speaker 4: like we were talking about a second ago, is that

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Speaker 4: it's easy for it to feel like this kind of

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Speaker 4: a story can become a one dimensional thing, even like

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Speaker 4: what you're saying about being in control. It's it's it

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Speaker 4: kind of swaps. It's kind of a dance throughout the

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Speaker 4: whole movie between between Michael and Martha where it seems

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Speaker 4: like he's in control because he's got the gun and

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Speaker 4: he's got you know, the physical, you know, menacing presence,

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Speaker 4: but you know, intellectually a lot of times Martha kind

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Speaker 4: of takes over that control. But it drew me to

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Speaker 4: it because this wasn't it's easy. I think it's easy

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Speaker 4: for this character to fall into the trap or trope

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Speaker 4: of this evil person who is just awful guy and

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Speaker 4: deserves the worst punishments imaginable, you know. And the way

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Speaker 4: it's read and the way that you know, working with

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Speaker 4: it with Tracy, and the way that like I kind

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Speaker 4: of approached it was was, you know, this is a

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Speaker 4: guy who, you know, he's been in the system since

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Speaker 4: a very young image. He's never really had proper role models,

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Speaker 4: He's never had been really shown love by from anybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is why it's really fascinating to me in particular,

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Speaker 2: because it really does reveal how when somebody comes into

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Speaker 2: this life at a deficit, like he just didn't have

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Speaker 2: the same kind of support systems and all of that,

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Speaker 2: and I ironically just yesterday visited San Quentin and was

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Speaker 2: given a tour of that prison and it's extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole other podcast episode.

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Speaker 2: I won't go too far into it, but I was

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Speaker 2: given a tour that our tour guides were for incarcerated

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Speaker 2: men and all we had very long conversations and they

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Speaker 2: told us our stories, and you know, essentially they came

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Speaker 2: into this without that's all they knew. They didn't have

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Speaker 2: any any support, and it really is. It speaks so

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Speaker 2: much to wanting love. Like all of these we cover

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Speaker 2: a lot of wild and crazy cases on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: and you could kind of distill it all back down

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Speaker 2: to a lack of belonging of community and needing love

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Speaker 2: or not having any resources. So I think the movie

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Speaker 2: really does a nice job of bringing that to the surface.

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Speaker 1: Was that intentional, I'm sure once on your part.

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Speaker 5: Tracy, Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I knew Martha when I read it,

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Speaker 3: and I don't mean like just in a very deep

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Speaker 3: way as a woman, but I was really curious about

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Speaker 3: my like the character of Michael and the because I

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Speaker 3: had so much empathy for this character, and the more

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Speaker 3: I started to dive in I listened to a lot

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Speaker 3: of true a lot of just like I read some

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Speaker 3: books and I'm trying to remember the name of this.

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Speaker 3: There was a couple books that I was reading about

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Speaker 3: sort of the young specifically under twenty year olds that

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Speaker 3: went through the system that were basically children that were

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Speaker 3: miners when they committed the crime, and they're they're part

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Speaker 3: of the system and they're now being tried as adults.

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Speaker 3: And there was there's laws that have now changed in

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Speaker 3: our country where if they were try as a miner,

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Speaker 3: now they you know, and they now they can go

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Speaker 3: back and have a retrial, and just kind of breaking

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Speaker 3: down all those these young kids' stories. It all came

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Speaker 3: down to a choice and a decision, and I was

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Speaker 3: just like left shattered and so like deeply affected by

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Speaker 3: their stories. And I think I shared some of that

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Speaker 3: with Tyler, and so that was very much much intentional

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Speaker 3: in terms of empathizing. And it gets to a certain

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Speaker 3: point and I won't give it away in the film

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Speaker 3: where you where you see that side of his character

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Speaker 3: because he is a kid. He's this big kid who

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Speaker 3: hasn't had a role model, and so I like telling

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Speaker 3: those stories. It's like not the black and the white,

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Speaker 3: but the gray. And as a filmmaker, those are stories

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Speaker 3: that I'm really drawn to telling, and this particular character

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Speaker 3: really struggle with that in his life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does really become kind of a battle of

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Speaker 2: the minds, like not just survival, but Martha's strategy to

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Speaker 2: establish a personal relationship with the captor was that one

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Speaker 2: of the most interesting part.

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Speaker 1: And are do you know that was that real? Is

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Speaker 1: that accurate?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean in the she talks about in the

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Speaker 3: actual case about how like she thought that what he

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Speaker 3: had maybe mental disorder, but yet they were able to

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Speaker 3: they were able to connect through the process. So that

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Speaker 3: was some of that was part of the story. But

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Speaker 3: then Tyler, I mean, some of that was just like

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Speaker 3: what you and Stana kind of found through working together.

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Speaker 4: In the original the true story. It's really fascinating that

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Speaker 4: this this guy, the real Michael Anderson, he had every

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Speaker 4: opportunity and almost every reason too, for lack of better terms,

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Speaker 4: dispose of Martha, and he doesn't, you know, And now

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Speaker 4: I found very interesting as well diving into that because again,

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Speaker 4: when I was playing this character, I wanted to you know,

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Speaker 4: I put obviously my spin on it and my understanding

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Speaker 4: of it but I wanted to all so honor the

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Speaker 4: true story as much as I could. And that fascinated

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Speaker 4: me when I read the Actual and Rules you know

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Speaker 4: book on it, and I was very fascinated, like what

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Speaker 4: made him you know, what was it that made him

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Speaker 4: show that kind of an empathy in that kind of.

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Speaker 2: A control right, because he certainly he beats her, I

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Speaker 2: mean he physically injures her, and he watches them have sex,

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Speaker 2: like all of these things that are so deeply disturbing.

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Speaker 2: And then the balance of him also you can you

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Speaker 2: can see that, you know, he wants some kind of

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Speaker 2: like love or understanding her.

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Speaker 4: I think Martha is the first, one of the first

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Speaker 4: that leads people who shows him some level of compassion

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Speaker 4: despite what he's done to her, Like it's like an

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Speaker 4: unconditional compassion that I think that is the first seed

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Speaker 4: and that is a way in which Martha starts to

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Speaker 4: take control. She plants that seed of because she shows

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Speaker 4: that kind of a compassion. And I think it's just

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Speaker 4: like Michael's like what, I'm not used He's not used

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Speaker 4: to that, you know, despite what there.

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Speaker 3: Was there was a part in the film where his

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Speaker 3: character goes, you know, he asks Martha how to cook.

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Speaker 3: She asked how he wants to cook? State the state cooked,

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Speaker 3: and he's like, well, how do you like it? And

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Speaker 3: that was that was one hundred percent true. That really happened,

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Speaker 3: and that scene really yeah. When I read it in

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Speaker 3: the script, I was like so fascinated that this man,

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Speaker 3: that this you know, that that was the level of

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Speaker 3: just like where he was at in the world in

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Speaker 3: terms of just not knowing. I think the book describes

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Speaker 3: him as like very jumpy, but he wasn't but he

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Speaker 3: was not sure of what to do next, Like that

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Speaker 3: was how she describes him. He was like this trigger

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Speaker 3: I mean trigger, I mean he was just like a

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Speaker 3: bully at times, and like then he was kidding with

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Speaker 3: It was so interesting, like how he just makes fun

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Speaker 3: of the circumstance and then he's like this big kid

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Speaker 3: who just doesn't know how to be around adults. It's

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Speaker 3: so it was just interesting.

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Speaker 2: Right right the We've seen these cases where you know,

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Speaker 2: victims do survive by staying calm and thinking strategically, and

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Speaker 2: this here it really feels like one much to your point,

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Speaker 2: like one wrong move could change everything, and so that

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Speaker 2: it sounds like that was a really conscious choice also

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Speaker 2: in the in the direction, yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and how close they got to each other. There's

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Speaker 3: one scene and I won't spoil it, one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite scenes in the whole scripts where Martha takes her

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Speaker 3: power back, and I'll leave it at that, and that

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Speaker 3: that scenes specifically, I for sure thought that was going

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Speaker 3: to be the end of the movie and it wasn't,

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Speaker 3: and it just continued. And so it was just like

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Speaker 3: an incredible memorable scene between the two of them, and

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Speaker 3: they and there was just the physicality of what they

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Speaker 3: did and allowed each other trust each other enough to

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't want to keep a screating

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Speaker 3: around the exactly say what happens in that scene, but

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Speaker 3: it just that particular scene really to me captured their

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Speaker 3: you know, just the expectation of like he could like

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Speaker 3: you would think that was the end, and right he

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Speaker 3: actually perhaps was like surprise and maybe turned on. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's so Tyler just kind of went there, you know,

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Speaker 3: like there was some definitely dark, twisted you can look

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Speaker 3: at that sort of uncomfortable moments and he just leaned

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Speaker 3: in and they had a lot of trust.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, how did Tyler, how does it feel being

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Speaker 2: the bad guy? But also on the receiving end of

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Speaker 2: so much kindness from the hostage, like that's.

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Speaker 4: It's it's definitely it was definitely one of the most

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Speaker 4: difficult roles I played to date because of how kind

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Speaker 4: of dark his past is and kind of how intense

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Speaker 4: the scenes could get and how abusive he could be

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Speaker 4: at times. And yeah, so it was definitely definitely an

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Speaker 4: interesting experience, especially because right before filming that I had

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Speaker 4: done an episode of Abbot sound like this golden retriever,

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Speaker 4: like super happy, positive guy, and then it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: get in the closet.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think it's important to tell these kinds

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Speaker 2: of stories, you know, these kinds of true crime stories

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Speaker 2: with women being victimized in particular. But why do you

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Speaker 2: think it's important to tell these stories?

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Speaker 3: You know, I've always grown up love I love mysteries

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Speaker 3: like Nancy Drew ham Jansen. Oh my gosh, that's like

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Speaker 3: middle school, like first readers. I'm dyslexic, and those are

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Speaker 3: the first things I read and I loved. I loved

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Speaker 3: the mystery of like trying to figure out like ultimately,

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Speaker 3: you know, how this this circuit, this terrible circumstance was

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Speaker 3: gonna like end and like, ultimately I think that sort

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Speaker 3: of led me to true crime and the films that

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Speaker 3: I like. I love dramatic stuff. I love you know,

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Speaker 3: Prisoners was a massive Gone Girl was that. Those were

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Speaker 3: two really big influences for me on this film. And

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Speaker 3: I think I think it's important for me anyway with

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Speaker 3: the story to show it's not one sided the story. Yes,

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Speaker 3: you know, Martha is the one who's being you know,

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Speaker 3: is the victim in the story. But I but it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: It was showing me about her resilience and like celebrating

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Speaker 3: her journey in a way that like so that other people,

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Speaker 3: you know, can just understand, like hopefully no one's ever

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Speaker 3: in that circumstance. But just to like to be able

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Speaker 3: to have something on on I was gonna say, film print,

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's I wish, not thirty five, but

300
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Speaker 3: to have something just to show, to show an audience

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Speaker 3: like what this person went through and her resilience and

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Speaker 3: you know, the sort of I just you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: there's the entertainment factor of it, right of just like

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Speaker 3: being like drawn on this journey with these characters. But

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Speaker 3: I think when it comes to true crime, it's like

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Speaker 3: understanding that these are real people that this really happened to,

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Speaker 3: and it just feels so unbelievable. The only way you

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Speaker 3: could believe that it was like could have ever happened

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Speaker 3: was because it was based on true events and our

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Speaker 3: world is crazy. But I think the silver lining of

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Speaker 3: it all is what gives I want, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: to be able to walk away with and know that

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Speaker 3: there's a future for Martha.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is why I wanted to do this

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Speaker 2: podcast in the first place, is that we are all

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Speaker 2: very fascinated by true crime, and I am fascinated from

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Speaker 2: the human aspect of it, you know, like how do

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Speaker 2: we get from A to Z? How do you go

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Speaker 2: from you know, the average guy who is just functioning

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Speaker 2: in the world to becoming a serial killer or doing

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Speaker 2: you know, like there is a reason these are all

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Speaker 2: human beings that you know, and extreme mental illness aside,

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Speaker 2: you know, how do we get to these places?

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Speaker 1: And how do people recover?

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Speaker 4: You know, that's what I think, you know, to explore

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Speaker 4: the psychology of it, you know, I think for people

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Speaker 4: to know, you know, kind of what could cause these

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Speaker 4: things and maybe how to avoid it or maybe do

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Speaker 4: in that kind of a situation, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know God like likes Tracy said, God forbid

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Speaker 4: anyone ends up in these circumstances. But as we see

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Speaker 4: with true crime stories, that's the true and true crime story. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: these things, you know, happen, right, I'm very fascinated by

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Speaker 4: the psychology of those things.

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Speaker 2: After working on this, did it change the way you

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Speaker 2: think about safety or your everyday routines at all?

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Speaker 1: And know, Tracy, you said you lacked your friend me.

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Speaker 3: For me, it changed I think what I was really

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Speaker 3: fascinated by. I had no idea about the juvenile system

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Speaker 3: and how they were read tried as adults. So I

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Speaker 3: learned a lot about that process. And I found myself

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Speaker 3: really questioning what how our system works? You like, I

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Speaker 3: know it's not perfect, far from perfect. Yeah, there's many

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Speaker 3: issues that need to be fixed. And I and it

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Speaker 3: just it's every case is so specific and you can't

347
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Speaker 3: it's not one size fits all. And I was really

348
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Speaker 3: fascinated and learned a lot about just that, specifically juveniles

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Speaker 3: and how they were treated and the psychology of it

350
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Speaker 3: grown their brain not being fully developed, and how do

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Speaker 3: we handle these cases? And so I left having a

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Speaker 3: deeper understanding and appreciation for just wanting, you know, for

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Speaker 3: those people to have second chances. You know, I'm sure

354
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Speaker 3: you know, taking a life is something you know, no

355
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Speaker 3: one ever like, that's never something that's okay. But then

356
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Speaker 3: you start to unpack all the circumstances around certain things,

357
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Speaker 3: and people are getting tried because of racials, discrimination or

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Speaker 3: because they weren't even pulling the trigger. They happened to

359
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Speaker 3: be there, so that there's all these circumstances that were

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Speaker 3: really I walked away just going wow, like this is

361
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Speaker 3: really complicated, right, Life is really yeah, right, life is

362
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Speaker 3: really fragile, very fragile.

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Speaker 1: What about you, Tyler?

364
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Speaker 4: During filming, I definitely was. I told Tracy this is actually.

365
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Speaker 4: There was a couple of nights that I was sleeping

366
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Speaker 4: and I like, I woke up and I could have

367
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Speaker 4: sworn I had heard somebody like trying to get in

368
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Speaker 4: through my back, and I like, it felt so so real,

369
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Speaker 4: and I remember laying in bed and thinking what do

370
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Speaker 4: I do right now? There was one night that it

371
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Speaker 4: was like it felt very real, even to the point

372
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Speaker 4: I think my mind was playing tricks on me because

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Speaker 4: of the circumstances and everything and I'm diving deep into

374
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Speaker 4: this world or whatever. But I could have sworn I

375
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Speaker 4: had seen a shadow like across the door. It was open,

376
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Speaker 4: and I was like, somebody's in my house right now.

377
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Speaker 4: And I literally was in bed, and I was like,

378
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Speaker 4: do I pretend to keep sleeping? Oh, I get up

379
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Speaker 4: and rush the door right now? Like what do I do?

380
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Speaker 4: I ultimately chose rushing and saw no one was there,

381
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Speaker 4: and I was like whoa, And it really messed me up.

382
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Speaker 4: This is probably like halfway through filming, and I went

383
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Speaker 4: back to sleep and then woke up and went to

384
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Speaker 4: set and then and it was it was definitely massive

385
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Speaker 4: with me at the time. But I mean in my

386
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Speaker 4: day to day, I you know, I lived like smacked

387
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Speaker 4: out in the middle of West Hollywood, which is pretty

388
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 4: pretty chill, you know, but lately there's been some weird

389
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Speaker 4: things going on, and so you know, my fiance is here,

390
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 4: and like, I want to make sure that she's beagter,

391
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Speaker 4: so we keep our doors locked all the time. We're

392
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Speaker 4: constantly text you know. So it definitely has made me

393
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Speaker 4: a little bit more you know, conscious of that. But

394
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Speaker 4: to Tracy's point, has also made me more aware of

395
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Speaker 4: these kind like I saw a video the other day

396
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Speaker 4: on Instagram and it was this guy hearing his sentence

397
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Speaker 4: and it was a life without parole sentence, for I

398
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Speaker 4: think it was for a murder charge, and as soon

399
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: as he hears it, he immediately breaks down in tears

400
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 4: and just he can't even stand he's crying. And all

401
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 4: the comments were very you know, play stupid games, win

402
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 4: stupid prizes. And I agree with that to a point,

403
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 4: But at the same time, there's a certain level of like,

404
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 4: at what point do we give forgiveness, mercy and a

405
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 4: second chance. You know, this guy's whole life, he was

406
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 4: a young man twenty maybe twenty two, I don't know,

407
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 4: and his whole life just shattered in front of his eyes.

408
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 4: He's going to spend the rest of his life behind

409
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Speaker 4: bars with no chance of rehabilitation at all, you know.

410
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 4: And so I think before this film, maybe I would

411
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 4: have been like with these people in the comments and

412
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 4: being like, well, you know, you killed somebody and you

413
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Speaker 4: need to pay the price for it. And I do

414
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: agree with that to a point. At the same time,

415
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 4: I think there's a conversation to be had about second chances,

416
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 4: about rehabilitation and things like that, you know, I actually

417
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 4: was able to connect with this in a way because

418
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 4: when I was sixteen, unfortunately, I did go into the

419
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 4: juvenile detention system for a fistfight that I got into,

420
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Speaker 4: and it was a whole thing. I won't get into that,

421
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: but I experienced firsthand what that looks like. And there

422
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 4: was a guy in there was a guy who was

423
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Speaker 4: in this system with me that I had met, that

424
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 4: he was charged. I mean, this is his words. We

425
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 4: have to, you know, have to take it with gran self.

426
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 4: But I believed every word he told me. He was

427
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 4: charged for something. He took the fall for something his

428
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 4: uncle had done. Basically, he was driving his uncle's car

429
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 4: and his uncle had stuff in the car. He took

430
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: the fall for it. But he was in there, stuck

431
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 4: in a limbo because none of his family or anybody

432
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 4: came to his trials, and so the judge kept pushing

433
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 4: it back two weeks, pushing it back two weeks. So

434
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 4: he was in there without a conviction yet just being held.

435
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: And he was like at that point, just like I,

436
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 4: He's like, I don't I just put me in adult County.

437
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: I don't want to be in now anymore. Like just

438
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 4: put me in, like just give me my conviction so

439
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 4: I can get it done and get out of here,

440
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 4: because they're just keeping me in this limbo. And this

441
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 4: was in Florida, and I just think there's certain things

442
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 4: in the systems that it needs. It needs fixing, it

443
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 4: needs a better system because it's these people's lives are

444
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 4: being you know, destroyed, and it breaks my heart.

445
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: I could not agree with you more.

446
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: And it's so fresh for me because, as I said

447
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: just yesterday's when you hear people speak about their life

448
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: experience and you humanize them, and that is what we

449
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 2: have to do more of, is humanize these people and

450
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: their experience. And yes, everyone needs to understand and have

451
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: repercussions in all of those things, but I think we

452
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: could do a little better with the humanizing side of things.

453
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.

454
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: So when you guys step back, what do you think

455
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: is the most unsettling part of this story?

456
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 4: The fact that this stuff happens, the fact that the

457
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 4: fact that it's based on a true story, and the

458
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 4: fact that you know the fact that it's it has

459
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 4: happened and unfortunately may happen again. You know, I think

460
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 4: that's what's unsettling, and that we don't know, like I think,

461
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 4: what's really the most unsettling about this, which reminds me

462
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 4: of this old Hitchcock film Shadow of a Doubt, is

463
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: that we are here. We see in this film it

464
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 4: begins with this picturesque kind of perfect suburban family that

465
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 4: is happy and safe and protected and loving. There's so

466
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: much love in the family, and one day it all

467
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 4: just changes, and then how that the family is affected

468
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: forever after that.

469
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 3: I think the most unsettling thing that was in the script,

470
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: I mean, and also in the book was when Martha

471
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: Corelli asked Michael Anderson, she said, why why did you

472
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: pick my house? Why did you pick my house six

473
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: blocks in the prison? And he says to her because

474
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 3: your garage door was open. That is true, And that

475
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: to me was just like the most mind blowing, circumstantial,

476
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: complete random when you hear these random acts of violence

477
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: of people getting stabbed on trains for no apparent reason.

478
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: There's no connection, right, you always want to find a

479
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 3: reason o x or oh, there's always a motive, And

480
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: it's like when those circumstances like that in life, in

481
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: a story like this or other like that's to me,

482
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: what's the most unsettling is like it was just happenstance.

483
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: I you, that is definitely one of the most, if

484
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: not the most unsettling part of it to me as well.

485
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: And before you guys, before we started this interview, my

486
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: producers and I were chatting and one of them said,

487
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: this is the most disturbing part that he when he

488
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: had when she asks him why, it's because her garage

489
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: door was online.

490
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: That's true.

491
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: Literally just said the same thing.

492
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, two weeks ago in my neighborhood, some a woman

493
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 4: was shot on her balcony and they still don't know,

494
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 4: they haven't found the suspect and don't know what it

495
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 4: could have been tied to at all. They're still trying

496
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: to figure it out. And it's super unsettling because that's

497
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: down the street from my house. It's where I get

498
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 4: my water, my little Primo water drugs, Oh my god,

499
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: and it's just like whoa, that's the most unsettling part.

500
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: It's like it's one thing. It's like, oh, it's an altercation.

501
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 4: Oh it was like a jealous axe or whatever it was.

502
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: But this was like completely unacted. So the whole community

503
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: right now is still kind of like whoa.

504
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: You know, it's just the wrong. It's the wrong place

505
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: at the wrong time, and like, I don't, you know,

506
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: we want it. We want as a human nature to

507
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 3: like want to have a reason and we want to

508
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: be able to put in a box and go, oh,

509
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: this makes sense. And I think the curiosity way back

510
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: is just to like why you started this podcast to

511
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: be in with and like the sort of like we

512
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: the human nature and the curiosity of wanting to know

513
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: because it just feels like there needs to be an

514
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 3: answer and sometimes there isn't, And I don't what's fascinating

515
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: beyond like you know Anne Rule who wrote this book,

516
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: her whole life story, and like she befriends, like she

517
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: befriended Ted Bundy, like they were work partners and that

518
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: is real and she didn't know and they became it

519
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: was just so it's just really fascinating to me. It's

520
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 3: like how that individual can be friends with a woman

521
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: and then go home and do the things he did

522
00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: and it just yeah, yeah, it makes me glad I

523
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 3: have a partner to look out for me too.

524
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

525
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: Well, Tracy and Tyler, thank you so much for this.

526
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: This has been really fascinating to me, and I could

527
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: talk for a couple more hours, but they're telling me

528
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: that we shouldn't.

529
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: Kidnapped in her own home.

530
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: The Martha Corelli story is streaming on Lifetime, and Tracy said,

531
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: you said it's somewhere.

532
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: Else as well. Wherever you got your vo d amazing.

533
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: Okay, well, best of luck with it. Thank you so much,

534
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: thank you,