WEBVTT - Double Strands w/ Karen Tsen Lee 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.000 Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.800 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:08.840 vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:27.120 These are our stories, done done. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.279 Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.680 SVU podcast. I'm Kara Klank and. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.360 I'm Liza Traeger. We chat SVU True Crime. We have 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.120 celeb guests and at first we do a little chit chatting, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.320 a little chit chat. What's up, Carol? 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.280 Not much recovering from my B day. I had a 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:56.400 great time and thanks for everybody who wished me well 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.680 on the Instagram and everything. That was really nice and 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.920 made me feel good. And then I went to dinner 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.040 with my husband and we went to this I went 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.720 to this place. Like you know how everybody's like talking 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.880 now about like quiet quitting, like doing the bare minimum. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.960 Like the hostess at the restaurant last night was like 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.920 quiet resigning, Like she was like handing in her resume. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.920 She could not have given less of a shit. Like 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.080 when she was like the name and I was like, oh, 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.560 it's under care, it's undercare, clank or whatever, she was like, okay, right, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.679 this way, and happy birthday to whoever, because there was 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.360 like a note that it was someone's birthday in the thing. 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.679 She just goes happy birthday to whoever, and. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.759 Like kept walking. I was like, girl, well it's so funny. 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:39.720 One of my friends she was saying, she's like this 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.720 quiet quitting. It's like fuck you to capitalism and the establishment. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.959 But what people don't realize is like you're affecting regular 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.920 people just like you, Yeah, like you being shit, I 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.840 mean not a host like who cares, but in terms 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.320 of like not doing certain work, like it affects regular people, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.160 Like you're fucking up people's lives. Well yeah, and if 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.240 you don't want to do your job. Yeah. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.520 And I was also like watching this video on like 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.120 NPR's Instagram from this woman that's like yeah, and like 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.760 also a lot of people of color like don't have 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.240 the option, like women and people of color who get 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.440 paid less and don't like have the same opportunities for advancement, 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.240 like they actually have to do one hundred and twenty 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.520 percent of work or they are not eligible for like 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:25.040 you know, promotions and moving forward. So it's a little 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.799 bit quiet quitting sometimes I think a little bit of 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:28.480 a but. 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.920 It's also a fake I think it's a fake word 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.320 created by like the newspapers or something, because it also 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.280 seems like a normal thing where it's like you shouldn't 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.840 be having to work above and beyond what you're supposed to, 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.240 like you should clock out at five and live your life. 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.280 And so it's not about quiet quitting. It's about like 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.359 shifting boundaries. But also like if you don't fill out 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.880 a form like our friends, like a bunch of stuff 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.520 with our friends. Loans were like at the hands of 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.960 someone who like refused to look at the screen or 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.040 look at the right email, and you have to and 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.200 it's like you are fucking up regular people. Yeah, you 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.080 can't do it. Yeah, Plus you work at a bullshit job. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.880 If you're selling Coca cola, no one cares. If you're 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.600 in charge of people's loans getting forgiven, you better snap 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.280 to it. Yeah, you better work. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.840 But I also like read I also read this study 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.880 this morning that was in my week. I get like 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.840 a daily newsletter from this place Axios that I read 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.440 every morning, and they had like a whole study about 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.040 it that said, like like quiet quitting, whatever you want 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.760 to call it, just doing your job to what is 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.560 expected of you and not going beyond is kind of 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.560 universally approved by like young people right now. And it's 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.440 across ages. It's I mean, it's I'm sorry, it's across race, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.280 it's across a political affiliation. It's like in the high 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:49.480 seventies to the eighties, it's like like everyone's saying it 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:54.640 percent between seventies and eighty percent of people are saying like, yeah, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.720 I just want to do like what is expected of 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:57.480 me and no more. 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.240 And so that's kind of yeah, because we've been tricked 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.760 to be like little hamsters in a wheel and it's 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.080 just like it's all tricks, and I think people should 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.480 not be like doing or I hate I hate when 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.680 people are proud of like I never missed a day 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:12.920 of work. I'm like, you shouldn't tell people that, Yeah, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:13.640 you're a loser. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.160 You never heard the day of work, so that you 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.360 came to work with a cold, you got other people sick, like, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:18.080 there's no way you. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.440 I didn't even go there. I just went like go 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:21.800 to the beach. No. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:23.320 I know that too. 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.039 I don't care as much about the sickness. But that 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.600 was wild thinking about like the nineties and people be 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.120 like we gotta go or even me, Remember I did 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.880 your show, Remember when you were running the show at 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.279 bar Lubitch and I had as to other spots and 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:40.479 I was like sitting in a pot. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.719 You were like I was hanging in the corner and 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.960 you were like, gotta do my spot. And I was like, Liza, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:47.920 We're okay, you can just go home. And you were like, yeah, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.520 but I'm up at the store after this or something. 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.880 But they also were like, yeah, you don't. Can you 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:55.960 not do that again? And I was like, for sure, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.440 I've just been trained in this other thing and visiting, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.520 you know, like everything matters. I don't know. Yeah, Like 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.520 but I fully had the flu and then I was 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.599 bedridden for like a week in my airbnb there. This 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:08.240 was years ago. 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.160 But well, my thing was that I would never call 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.159 in sick to go to I would just go into 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.919 work sick so that I could use sick days for 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.280 fake days, like I would be like, I'm so sick today, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:17.560 I can't make it in on the days that I 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:19.840 wanted to just like go horrible or around. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.159 You go in sick, but then you go I'm not 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:23.880 feeling good. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.080 Yeah, you go to show your face and then you're like. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.120 But I've said this before. I think on the pod 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.600 the best way to get out of work is pink I. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.360 No one wants to be around pink I. No one. 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:36.920 Everyone's discussing it by. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.479 It so contagious, But you have to like what do 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.000 you do? Do you rub your eye a bunch and 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.080 then like wants evidence, no one cares you. Go, hey, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.000 I have pink eye. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.080 I could come in with an eye patch and then 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.880 they just stay high clicking with an eye patch. What 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.680 I don't want you? What don't want you? But yeah, 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.719 I saw a chart today. I don't know if it 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.719 was a real chart. It was on Twitter, but it 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.640 was a guy saying like that if your goals in 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:11.039 life are like money, fame, youth, whatever, like it's a 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.680 bottomless pit of agony and you'll never be satisfied. And 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.960 so there needs to be more things in your life 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.320 that you're looking for, not just like salary and job position. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.240 And I always say this and the chart said it, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.720 but it's like time. People don't get free. Time is 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.279 like the most valuable thing on this fucking planet. And 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.159 I think the people that are so like money, money, money, 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.120 I hate my family. I have to make money like 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.040 they don't understand being like chiller about it, but like 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.599 free time is the greatest thing. I think that you 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.600 can have time to know. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.040 I barely have any That was nice about my birthday yesterday, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.320 Like I had a few free hours in the afternoon 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.000 and I just went and had wine with Lisa and 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:52.920 it was like really nice. I never get to do 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.479 anything like that, Like I never have free time, so 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:56.400 it was nice. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.479 Yeah, I just feel the boomers think they're the greatest 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.280 generation because they killed the Nazis, and I'm not devaluing that, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.839 thank you so much. I think the Russians had a 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.760 lot to do with it too, but they are truly 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.880 the worst. Like they created every bad thing in our society, 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:24.160 like fake foods, microwave working all the time. Yeah, the mutes, 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.000 all of that stuff, like the boot like you gotta 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:28.880 buy a house and do this and do that and 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:30.320 do this, and you have to do it this, so 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.000 it's like all the boom and then ruining it for 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.160 everyone else being like, well I did it, so you 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.040 gotta do it, so I'm gonna make it harder for you. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:37.160 I mean, they are the worst. 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.239 I didn't know the Boomers killed the Nazis. My parents 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.720 are boomers and they were born like the year that 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:43.800 the Nazis went down. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.000 Oh is the not or did the Nazi killers give 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.920 birth to the boomers? I think that's what it is. Yeah, 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:51.440 that's what it is. 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.440 But what are they? What were they? 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:58.520 What's the greatest generation? The greatest generation? That's what it is. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.280 The fucking, the fucking self centeredness of that name. Like, wow, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.560 you're just the greatest generation. That's it. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.160 That's because of the not. Yeah, they killed the Nazis 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.440 and then when they came home, no therapy. I mean, oh, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:19.920 this will obviously quickly go into the patriarchy all of 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:25.800 that there. But yeah, it's it's weird. But it's also 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.680 weird to talk about any of this because, like you said, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.960 a lot of people don't even have the opportunity to 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.319 not you know, to like think about self care, you 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:34.880 know what I mean? Right, like se people are just 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.720 working so many jobs. But I don't know. I do 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.120 want to say this morning, I was woken up very 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:48.840 very early by the beautiful Highland Park parents oh tweets. 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.640 They were so loud and I was getting upset, and 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:53.120 then I was like just go look at them and 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.000 When I stepped outside and looked at them, I was 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:56.680 instantly smiling. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:58.920 Oh, that's nice. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.520 They're so pretty. It seems special. It seems like such 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.400 a special treat to see, like green and red birds. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:10.120 I don't know, they're just really pretty. But they're so loud. 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.560 Yeah, and there's a lot of them. It's wild. Yeah, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.400 they're in Pasadena too. There's like the Pasadena parrots. I 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.359 don't know if they're no one crew. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.240 No, it's it is the Pasadena parrots. But I call 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:22.240 them the Highland. 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:23.600 Park I think there's Highland Park parrots too. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.679 I mean we have our I see them. I see 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.400 them here. Yeah, if they're here, But I don't know 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.800 what to tell you. Do you ever hear that that 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.080 was because of a fire at a pet store? We 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:37.440 talked about this before, Yeah, I talk about it all 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:37.800 the time. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:38.720 Is that what happened? 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.000 Yeah, they escaped the pet store fire, got it. I 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.880 mean there's theories that it could also be like a 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:50.160 smuggling situation gone wrong, a lah wildlife oh episode, and 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.280 all these birds escaped. But I like the idea of 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.600 escaping the pet shops surviving and they were endangered, like 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.600 they were only a captivity type bird and then they've 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.640 just like taken over another while our neighborhoods and wildlife, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.160 just like the little bird found in that girl's purse 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:13.640 in wildlife. Yeah, the macaw, the spicks macaw. Yeah, we did. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.199 We did recently have our live show in LA. We're 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:17.920 in the time machine, you know, at this point it'll 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:19.679 be long gone. But we had a good time at 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.640 our live show. Thank you to everybody that came out 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.800 in LA and San Diego. Good times. 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:31.680 If you guys are interested, we're touring all over the place. Washington, 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.079 d C. On the sixteenth of October, Charlotte on the seventeenth, 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.760 Raleigh on the eighteenth, Atlanta on the nineteenth, and then Huntsville, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.680 Alabama on the twenty second, and Nashville on the twenty third. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.360 So come on out and see us. That's messed uplive 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.080 dot com are our ticketinos. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.120 And I said I was going to take a break 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.199 from getting tattooed, but I do kind of want to 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:55.560 get tattooed in Nashville. 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.560 Oh, that's a fun idea. There's a couple artists that 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.920 I like, And you said you wanted a Halloween tattoo. 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.560 And they would be they would make me very good 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.920 Halloween tattoos. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.840 also want to really cursive sexy L. 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.560 But oh my god, that I was so obsessed with 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.520 the cursive L growing up, Like when I was a kid, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.720 I used to just draw them constantly and I just 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.120 was like, I love the L. I love the capital L, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:26.920 like cursive, and I'm would draw it all the time and 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.800 be like, I'm gonna marry someone with the last name 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.199 that begins with L. And I did, and then I 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.800 didn't take his last name, so I don't get to 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:38.880 write that beautiful L out No. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.720 Ella's definitely the Curse of La is gorgeous. Yeah, ol 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:49.640 is like it's just starts so many great words. Yeah yeah, 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.560 because I think getting like love or lucky tattooed is 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.439 like kind of gay in the bad way I'm saying it. 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.559 But an L can mean it all, you know what 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.560 I mean? Yeah, that's how I feel. And Lisa, like 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.800 you can't get Lisa, but you can get it now. Yeah, lollipops, lions, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:08.679 It's just like all great. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:13.880 Things, listeria. Yeah, like just everything good. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.680 Because I know I was thinking of another thing and 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.200 the only thing that came to my Oh, lemonade. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.520 Delicious, lysol clean. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:23.600 My mom would love that. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.800 Okay, do you want to get going. We've got a 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.480 great episode for you guys today, So don't go anywhere, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.560 all right. We are doing one of the best episodes, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.360 I think, a real barn burner, like they really wanted 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.280 you to forget the maloney had gone away and they 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.320 give you an episode like this. This is season thirteen. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.480 This is Double Strands, Season thirteen, episode four, uh from 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.719 way back in twenty eleven, and we open on Ballerina 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.640 stretching very center stage vibes. A girl goes up to 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.600 a blonde girl and is like, congratsung it the solo 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.280 or like whatever it is. And the blonde girl is 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.840 her name is Gillian Alexi, and I knew I recognized 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.200 her when I looked her up. She's been in Damages. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.440 But do you remember she was in The Americans and 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:17.200 she was one of Matthew Reese's undercovers, but then she 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.320 kind of fell in love with like the Middle Eastern 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.600 guy that she was undercover, like seducing, and then he 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.360 kills her. Do you remember when Matthew Reese has to 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.520 go help like break her body and put it into 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:33.120 a suitcase. On the Americans, this blonde woman because she 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.120 got too she like she decided to like go. She 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.840 was obsessed with the guy. She was like surveiling and 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.480 then he killed her like in a he like choked 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.440 her to death while he was in the room next door. Anyway, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.040 crazy episode of the Americans. And this girl is is 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:50.880 that is her from that? So I remembered her from 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.559 that and she is very excited to show off her 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.319 moves and she can't wait to show everybody what she 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.360 can do. And the girl's like, honey, you're on Broadway now, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.640 bitch is better bow down. And so we find out 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.559 that these are like Broadway dancers. And so we see 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.640 through the window while they're stretching at the bar someone 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.160 it's like a huge you know, front storefront window that 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.480 they're at somehow at their ballet studio, and there's a 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.840 man across the street taking photos of her. Uh oh, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.120 not good. The next thing we see is this woman 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.880 in her ballet outfit still and like a hoodie, walking 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.360 alone at night on an extremely dark, empty street. I'm 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.280 not trying to victim blame, but not a great idea. 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.480 And someone gives her a whole like, oh, you look 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.400 prettier when you smile. Bullshit, and she's kind of like 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.440 ignoring him. But then he says Danielle, He says her name, 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.760 and she like turns around like, holy shit, how does 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.240 this creep know my name? Just as she turns around, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.600 this fucking guy ambushes her, pushes her against a fence, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.320 and we see he's got a knife in his hand. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.240 In the next scene, we see a pretty graphic sexual 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.040 assault happening in a wooded area. There's a bike nearby, 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.480 and the guy keeps telling her like, look at my face, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.240 look at my face, so now, which is terrible because 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:00.880 it's horrible. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.080 Well, not only all of that, but if they're trying 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.520 to get away with a crime, you don't want the 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:05.920 victim to look at your face. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.120 I know, it's very Again, we're not trying to tell 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.400 people how to get away with crimes, but these guys 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.120 are dumb. In the next scene, she is reporting her 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.800 experience to Benson. They're sitting on a park bench and 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.160 Danielle is like, I should have just smiled, and Benson's like, na, girl, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.120 you did everything right. You survived, which is the Benson mantra, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:24.520 I know. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.640 But every time I hear Benson say that, now, I 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.320 just remember you talking about that cat, like Mittens, you 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.520 did everything you can survive. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.320 You did everything you could Mittens. So yeah, So she 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.360 basically is giving the mitten speech to Danielle and she's like, 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.960 I've never seen this guy before, but he knew all 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.240 about me. He was wearing late text gloves. Benson's like, 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.760 did you notice any tattoos or anything? And she's like, 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.320 he had kind of like a tai chi thing on 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.000 his neck. And this peaks Rollin's interest. And remember Rollins 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.520 is like four episodes into the show's new She's the 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.440 new gal okay, and she butts In, which you know, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.520 live does not like and you can see it all 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.480 over her face and she's like, wait, what kind of 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.440 tattoo was it? And she was like, you know, black 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.240 and white and she was like, oh, the yin yang 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.960 and she was like, yeah, that's what it was. Did 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.040 he say anything and she's like, yeah, he said tell 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.000 me you love me, mommy, And this is really getting 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.720 Rollins going. She's like obsessed and she's like, okay, how 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.480 did he get away? And the girl goes on a 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.040 bike and then Benson is like, can you excuse us 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.480 for a second, pulls Rollins aside and lectures her about 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.360 how in New York, I don't know how you do 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.240 it down South, girly, but up here only one of 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.520 us does the intake so we don't overwhelm the victim. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.480 And Rollins is like, I know this is insane, but 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.040 I know this guy. I know this purp. We had 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.080 a guy with the same momo down in Georgia, a 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.440 serial rapist who stalks his victims, has the same tattoo, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.280 would say tell me you love me, Mommy lives Like 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.680 that's kind of a stretch, and Rollins is like, maybe 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.840 it is, or maybe this guy's in New York City. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:04.600 Dunt dune credits. Indeed, yeah a lot. So now we're 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.520 at the precinct and Amanda's giving everyone the lowdown. They 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.320 called this guy the Atlantic Coast rapist down in Georgia. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.119 He was a white male in his thirties with a 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.920 yin yang tattoo who attacked women in Georgia, Maryland, in Virginia. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.720 He's a classic power reassurance serial rapist and there were 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.320 fifteen rapes over nine years. But then nothing in the 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.359 last three years, so they thought he was either locked 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.320 up or dead. All his victims were young, fit, athletic women. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.000 There was always a bike planted in the woods. His 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.200 first four rapes. He didn't wear a condom, so they 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.879 do have his DNA, and he also left a partial 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.320 print on like a screwdriver in one of his attacks. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.320 And the kicker, this guy loves blondes. It's like not 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.240 even like a preference, it's an obsession. And so Benson 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.439 enters telling them how Danielle did the perfect thing. She 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.240 pulled out a bunch of this guy's hair with the 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:00.600 roots attached and she kept it so okay. So the sketch, 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.040 he's like, hope you don't mind, Captain, I brought in Fujiita. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.360 So we find out that Fujiita is this freelance artist 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.520 who does straight up, like moody charcoal portraits of these perps, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.119 Like it's not the like weird guy with badis that 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.840 looks like every single thing like this guy does, Like 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.679 there's light on their faces. It's like full portraits. So 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.560 you're gonna get an ID from this guy, even though 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.160 Munch is like, oh, he's so expensive, as if he's 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.960 paying for it. And so when Benson tacks it to 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.600 the board, you immediately see that on this drawing, like, oh, 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.199 that's tr Knight from Grey's Anatomy, Like you can you can, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:37.919 like we haven't seen the actor yet, but you can 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.160 tell it's this guy. And I think like tr Knight 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.080 kind of controversially left Gray's Anatomy because he thought it 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:45.680 was like after he came out as gay, and he 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.320 thought Shonda Rhymes was like cutting his screen screen time. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.160 I'm not really a Grays person, but I did discover 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.480 looking up tr Night's biography that his husband is a 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:59.680 ballet dancer, so a tie in anyway. Munch and Finner 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.480 on the show Street, we see this guy's face is 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.520 all over New York. It's like up on screens, it's 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.560 on newspapers, and Munch is like, for some reason going 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.560 on this big brother rant about the violation of civil liberties, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.040 like they're going to take our DNA at birth and 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.119 like put it in a library and YadA YadA, and 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.520 like Iced Tea is like, yeah, like only criminals would 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.520 care about that, and Munch is like, or people who 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.560 care about civil liberty. He's like, you know, gets into 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.960 his conspiracy theory. Shit, and then Munch is like, also 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.600 putting this guy's face out there. Now, we're going to 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.719 have to manage all these crackpot calls that we get. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.640 So we cut to the precinct. The phones are ringing 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.520 off the hook. Munch is on the phone with some 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.840 looney tune who like is telling her him that it's 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.760 a black man, and she's like, it's a white man, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.160 and Munch is like, it's a white man and hangs up. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.440 And then uh, He's like, can someone take over for me? 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.760 I'm gonna go chew glass. I really miss him? And 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.359 they see, uh, they see a blonde woman has just 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.920 arrived at us for you, and she's looking kind of nervous. 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.720 So in a way, in a crackpot a bad word. 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:58.760 I don't think crackpot is a bad word. I think 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:00.240 it's crackhead. That's about. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:01.960 Well, we can call people crackpots. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.680 Man, we I think he said crackpot, because that's not 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.240 I'm just wondering if we need to make crackpot merch 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.840 like I love it. It says a crackpot is an 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.000 eccentric or foolish person. So it's not even about it's 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.520 not about somebody who has like a like a mental issue, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:20.880 health issue. 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.000 Right, crackpot, that's her new word, crackpot. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.440 The word is fairly derogatory, but I don't think it's 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.240 well that's what it says. Is it offensive. I don't 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:35.120 think it's about someone having mental health issues. So anyway, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.080 So Benson and Rollins are interviewing this young blonde woman 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.159 and her name is Lana. She says she was attacked 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.119 two months earlier in Morningside Park but she never reported uh, 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:46.720 and then she saw his face on the news that 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.399 morning and recognize the neck tattoo. So now, as the 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.040 interview continues, we hear Benson and Laana talking, but what 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.640 we're seeing is tr Night, the actor, teaching his six 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.400 year old son how to throw a baseball. He looks 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.439 very clean, He's in like a suit and he's like, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.040 here's how you hold the grip, buddy. And we see 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.800 a woman behind with a friend and they're taping him 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.320 on her cell phone and Lana is confirming that he 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.359 said the same thing that tell me you love me 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.960 mommy line. They show her a photo that the mom 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.439 sends in from the park as a tip, and she's like, 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.760 that's him. So boom, boom, boom. We've got some id's already. 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.600 Now we're talking to park Mom who was taking the 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.960 video and her friend. And the one of these women 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.439 is named Darlene Violet, and I used to do She 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.000 used to run these casting sessions in New York that 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.080 were like pay to play. Did you ever hear about these, Lisa, 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.520 Like before I had before I had a manager and 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.760 agent and I was just doing comedy. Like a friend 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:43.159 told me about these. It was like, yeah, you like, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.320 go and you can. You can audition for these casting 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.280 directors but they get paid, and it's like it's I 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.919 don't think it's like necessarily a legit practice and I 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.760 don't know how much ever comes out of it. But 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.040 I would go and like, do these like auditions, and 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.320 I would like audition for I was like, I just 0:21:58.359 --> 0:21:59.919 want to do comedy stuff. But then I would get 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.720 and they'd be like, here is a scene from a 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.159 movie about a CIA agent and you're hanging out of 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:06.840 a helicopter and I'm like, yeah, this is not what 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:09.399 I wanted to be doing, but okay, So anyway, I 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.080 know this woman Darlene Violet, and they are like yep. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.120 He started bringing his boy to the park this summer 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.440 and our kids play together. He lives across the street 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.320 from Darlene, so now we've got his exact address. And 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.240 now they are at the home of Gabriel and Janie Thomas, 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.360 and Gabriel is walking home with his son, and when 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.720 the cops reveal themselves, Gabriel is pumped as shit. He's 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.600 like shaking their hands. He's being extremely cordial for a 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.720 potential rapist. They show him the front page of the 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.800 paper and he's like, oh, that's got to be a mistake. 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:40.560 And then his wife comes out and is like, honey, 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.040 what's going on. And they're like, well, we just want 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:44.719 to know where your husband was two nights ago, and 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.200 she says, oh, home with us, home with his family, 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.080 and he goes, yeah, except for I went out for 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.400 a bike ride at nine o'clock and I ride by 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.560 myself and I don't take my phone. I just take 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.640 like a little bit of cash, and like that's it. 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:02.520 So again, very suspiciously forthcoming for a rapist. And he 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.359 says he doesn't need a lawyer and offers to go 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.720 to the station to answer questions. No problem at the precinct. 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.240 Tomorrow's like, I don't know, Rolins, your boy seems like 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.120 he's playing it pretty cool for like you know, someone 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.320 who's guilty, Like he doesn't even need a lawyer. He 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.800 said he didn't want a lawyer, and Rollins is like, oh, really, 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.520 he's already got one. And it's Sherry West. And we 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.399 know Sherry West as a very forgettable blonde Ada. In 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.119 season twelve, she was in four episodes as the Ada, 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:29.760 and now she is back in season thirteen as a 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.679 defense attorney. So now Gabriel is about to do a 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.320 lineup and Rollins is throwing shade at Sherry West, like, 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:36.960 if you get this guy off, you're worth the money 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.520 they're thrown at you. And this is the first time 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.320 we've kind of really seen a lineup from inside of 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.760 the lineup room. I feel like maybe we have like 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.199 I've never seen before where we're in there and like 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.119 Finn is there going all right, step forward now, step 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:52.240 back now, step forward, step back, and then you hear 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:55.119 five knocks and then ice t tells them to go 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:57.960 pick up their ten bucks down the hall, except number 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.560 five you stay, and that's obviously Gabe. So I just 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.840 hadn't seen it. Like, so inside of the lineup you know, 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.280 and Gabriel is like still so confused. He's like, what's 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:11.720 going on? And Finn's like, you should have stayed down South, dude, 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:13.879 your game was not ready for the big city. Two 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:16.760 of your rape victims just idd you, and the guy 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.320 Gabriel is incredulous, like he cannot believe it. And that's 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:22.280 the end of Act one, and now the top of 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:24.960 Act two, Daddy Craigan and the gang are talking to 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:27.639 Sherry and she's like, you've got the wrong guy. And 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:29.680 Tomorrow is like, all right, let me go in and 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:31.480 talk to Gabriel and get his side of the story, 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.840 and Rollins is like, I would love to take the confession. 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.359 Like Rollins is hyped on getting into a room with 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:38.639 this guy, and Sherry's like, if you go in there 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:40.800 with your minds made up, which is basically what they 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:42.880 do ninety nine percent of the time on this show 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.719 and in real life, she goes, I will advise him 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:47.960 to shut up. And so Craigan asked Sherry, like, give 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:50.359 us a minute, and we see more of Rolins, like 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.119 thirsty as hell to nail this guy, and she's like 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.359 and they're like, look, calm down, we're waiting on the 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.600 DNA and the fingerprint, and she's just like, put me 0:24:57.640 --> 0:24:59.040 in coach, like, let me take a run at. And 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.359 while we're waiting, Craigie gives her a little taste of 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.000 Manhattan's view and tells Benson tomorrow to take the lead 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.919 rollins you watch with me. So she gets benched and 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:11.520 she's not happy, but she's like, whatever you say, Captain. 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:17.040 So in interrogation, Gabriel is like, I'm squeaky clean, you guys. 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:20.120 I've got like nothing, I've only got parking tickets or whatever. 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:22.640 And they're like, what about this domestic in ninety four 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:24.440 and he's like, that was an argument with a college 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.359 girlfriend her a neighbor called the cops. It was fifteen 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:29.639 years ago. It's not a big deal. And you do 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:31.240 see him get a little bit angry. He's like, I'd 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:33.280 like to look up what your guys backgrounds, you know, 0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:36.080 And we find out that he is a pharmaceutical rep. 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:37.960 He just got a promotion and he moved to New 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:41.840 York City in June, and he moved there from Geneva, Switzerland, 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:43.600 which is where he's lived for the past three years, 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.480 because that's where his company's headquartered. Before that, he was 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:50.120 a sales rep in Georgia, South Carolina, and Maryland, and 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.000 he's like, they're like, we're going to need your employment 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:55.240 records because, as we know and they know, he's just 0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:57.840 put himself at the place of every single rape that's happened. 0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:01.120 And he's like, yeah, take my employment records, anything you need. 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.680 He's still being extremely helpful coming out of the room. 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:07.879 Benson's like he had the opportunity to exclude himself, but 0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:10.199 he didn't. And Amarro's like, I thought he was supposed 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.840 to be obsessed with blondes. He hasn't even noticed. Rawlin's 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:18.160 it's like, okay, is that shade And she's like no, no, no, 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:21.280 he likes submissives, like I'm too strong for him or whatever. 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.880 And Craigan's like, let's just go check out the work records. 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:28.120 Guys like go go, let's dot our eyes and so 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:29.720 so now the gang is all gathered around in the 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.520 workroom and Novak's there too, and they're figuring out that 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:36.160 Gabriel's whereabouts line up exactly with every attack, like every 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:37.840 place that he was is a place where there was 0:26:37.840 --> 0:26:39.920 a rape. And then there were no rapes in Switzerland 0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:43.879 that they know of, Craigan's asking Interpol. Kraigan loves to 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.600 ask Interpol. Interpol's probably not getting back to them about this. 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.320 And then he came back to New York City and 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:52.639 there's been two rapes in three months, and they found 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:55.240 in his bike bag a screwdriver and a knife, which 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:58.000 fits the m O and Amarro's like, yeah, that's also what, 0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:00.400 like every bicyclist has in their bike bag. I didn't 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:03.720 really know what bicyclists had a knife in their bag, 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:06.280 but I guess you know, it is New York. Anyone 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.680 else think it's weird? He just offered that all up, 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:10.760 Like Tomorrow's like, why would he just tell us all that? 0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:13.920 And Novak's like, is he always like this because he's 0:27:14.000 --> 0:27:16.719 new too, right, Amorrow's like a new guy also, and 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:19.560 then Live gets an alert on her tiny twenty eleven 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:22.439 iPhone and boom, the DNA is a match to the 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.600 first four victims and Danielle. Because Danielle got the root, 0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:27.840 so we're able to link to these first four rapes 0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:30.520 where he forgot to wear a condom. So Rollin says, 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:32.560 I'm gonna call my captain in Atlanta and tell him 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:34.439 the good news, and she's like grinning, But I'm like, 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:36.879 isn't that Harry Hamlin who like assaulted you that you 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:42.000 hate your captain? But Craigan compliments Rollins on a job 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.840 well done. But you can see by Amorrow's face that 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.080 like something about this is not sitting right for him. 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.879 So he goes and sees Gabriel in holding and he says, 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.720 Gabriel tells Tomorrow like the DNA results have to be wrong, 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:56.080 like something is up here, And Tomorrow's like, is there 0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:57.840 anything you want to tell me? Something you didn't want 0:27:57.880 --> 0:27:59.440 your wife to know or maybe you didn't want to 0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.159 say in front of you pretty attorney. And he says no, 0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:05.560 and Tomorrow's like, look, I saw these girls, Like he's 0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.040 basically saying, like they're all hot, like maybe they sent 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:10.600 you mixed signals. And I think that's kind of what 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:12.960 makes it tough to know if we like Tomorrow, because 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.040 when he says stuff like that, you can't always tell 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.159 if he's like just playing the purp or if he 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.760 kind of believes that shit a little bit, like no. 0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:22.639 He's a t women can sells no he is. 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.720 But sometimes I think that's why people are are on 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:28.240 and off about Tomorrow because sometimes He's like, I don't know. 0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:30.159 The girls seem pretty into it. 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:30.560 I don't know. 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:33.600 Sometimes he does say shit like that, but yes, there's 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:35.640 no way that there can be mixed signals that lead 0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:37.879 to being raped at knife point. Let's get that out 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:40.560 of the way. And he says, I've never even seen 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:43.000 any of these victims before. That's what Gabriel says. He's like, 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:44.880 I don't even know who they are. I've never seen them. 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:48.080 And Tomorrow immediately plays the kid card. He's like, if 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:50.040 you ever want to see Luke ever again, tell me 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:52.080 everything right now. I'll make sure you do time in 0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:54.640 New York where they can visit you. And Gabriel's like, 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:56.680 I will not do anything. I will not admit to 0:28:56.720 --> 0:28:59.000 something I didn't do. And guess what, your rapist is 0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:01.960 still out there, and Amarro cuffs him. I don't really 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:04.400 know why he's cuffing, and maybe to take him to arrayment. 0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:08.440 So now we're at arraiment and Gabriel pleads not guilty 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.080 and Novak's like, no, son, there's DNA, and Sherry's like 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:15.000 this is a family man, and the judge is like, yeah, sorry, 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:16.960 you are going to Rikers, sir. It does not matter 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:20.320 that you have a family, and Gabriel is like exchanging 0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:22.960 looks with his wife and she looks pissed. Then he's 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:24.840 like pleading with her like, Jane, I didn't do this, 0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:27.760 I didn't do this, like and she's like, I mean 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:30.320 the wife looks like DNA. Don't lie, pal, that's like 0:29:30.400 --> 0:29:33.440 what the look in her eyes says. So Amaro and 0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:36.719 Finn are now at like the processing area, I think 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:38.640 where they're like about to take him to Rikers, and 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:40.640 they're talking sports or some shit with one of the 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.040 cops and then another cop comes running in and he's like, 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.240 we got a bleeder. We got a bleeder. And they 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:48.040 go and they find Gabriel in the holding cell, bleeding 0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:50.400 out on the floor in his court clothes, having cut 0:29:50.400 --> 0:29:53.320 his wrists. And now Mar's like, you're gonna be okay, 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:55.440 You're gonna be okay, and he's like, you tell my wife, 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.120 I never raped anyone. Tell my son. So that is 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:01.000 his like what he what we think could be his 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.600 dying last words, is that he did not commit these crimes. 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.120 And then Finn screams for a medic and that is 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.959 the very dramatic end to that act. Next up we 0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:12.640 see Amaroon Benson talking to a doctor outside of a 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:15.080 hospital room. We see Gabriel through the window. It looks 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.200 like he made it, and the doctor says, I haven't 0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:19.760 done a PsychEval yet, but he's lost a lot of blood, 0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.280 and Benson goes, yeah, we've seen this, like if a 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:24.680 guy finally gets caught takes the easy way out. But 0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:27.040 now Janey, his wife, is at his bedside and he's 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.160 asking like, well, what did you tell Luke And she's like, 0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:30.960 I told him you were on a long business trip. 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.520 And he's like very furious, like rattling his like his 0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:38.440 cuffs on the bed of the hospital and being like, 0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:40.239 I can't believe you think I could do this, And 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:43.080 she's like I'm sorry, but it's like who could blame her? 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.000 Like there is DNA like he was in all the 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:47.880 places where it happened. It doesn't look great. And how 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:51.320 many women have we seen on like Oxygen and in 0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:55.040 true crime podcasts who are like I never saw a 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:57.440 thing coming and he was a great husband and whatever, 0:30:57.440 --> 0:30:59.400 like the BTK Killer How to Wife the whole time, 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.280 Ted Bundy's girlfriend ten Buddy had a girlfriend the whole time, 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:04.320 Like it's not impossible for you to be married to 0:31:04.600 --> 0:31:07.880 someone you didn't know the truth about. So anyway, Amaro 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:10.760 is trying to figure out a way that this guy's innocent. 0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:12.400 He asked the doctor like, is there any way this 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:15.080 guy could have like committed these crimes with no awareness 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:17.600 of it? She says, I've never seen it, but there 0:31:17.600 --> 0:31:20.200 are psychiatrists who would say yes, and those are the 0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:21.840 ones he's going to hire to go on the stand. 0:31:22.240 --> 0:31:24.280 And they're like, what about the suic's side attempt as 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:26.480 a way to bolster in insanity defense? And she said, 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:29.000 we had a guy once try to chew his arm 0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.880 off to convince the jury that he was crazy, and 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:34.480 guess what, it worked, So who knows, you know. And 0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.560 the wife comes out and Benson tries to talk to 0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:38.480 her about Gabriel and like saying, I think he's going 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.440 to be okay, and she's like, spare me that bullshit. 0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.440 You don't care about Gabriel, And she's just saying kind 0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:45.080 of like what I was just talking about, Like I 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.160 can't believe I was married to someone for fifteen years. 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:49.960 I never saw any signs of this, And Benson's like, 0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:52.760 you know, true pet predators are really masterful at covering 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:56.440 their tracks, and Janie's crying and saying his crimes make 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.160 her sick, but she can't leave him. He has no 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:01.720 Family's an only child, and his parents died within six 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:03.760 months of each other when he was in college. And 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:05.479 then she tells this whole story about how she had 0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:08.880 a miscarriage one time and Gabriel was right by her side, 0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:11.120 never even took time to wash the makeup off, and 0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.040 they're like, what do you mean makeup? And she's like, 0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:16.080 it was Halloween. He was in Captain Jack outfit and 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.480 his eyeliner ran when he cried, and so there, of 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.080 course that's like ding ding ding alarm bells for tomorrow. 0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:24.880 He's like, Halloween of what year? And Tomorrow is like, 0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:27.200 obviously onto something and it was Halloween of two thousand 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:30.320 and three. So now Amorrow is outside at some kind 0:32:30.360 --> 0:32:33.960 of like food cart flirting with Sherry Rest's Sherry West. 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.440 It looks like a waffle truck maybe, and he's asking her, like, 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:39.880 you got any alternate theories of these crimes, and she's like, 0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.320 what are you gloating? And then Amorrow's like, I think 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:44.560 you should look into Halloween of two thousand and three. 0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:46.720 We got a man in two places at the same time. 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:51.200 So now at the precinct, Amorrow looks kind of tired 0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:53.880 and stressed, and Munch goes, what's bugging you, new guy? 0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:56.200 I just I do miss Munch. I feel like Lisa 0:32:56.200 --> 0:32:58.120 and I have talked about this, but there's not as 0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:01.520 much funniness in the show since Munch went away, and 0:33:01.560 --> 0:33:04.600 he just can't believe that this guy. Tomorrow just can't 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:06.440 believe that this guy could play him like that because 0:33:06.480 --> 0:33:08.400 he kind of really believes the guy, and he's like, 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:11.720 why am I feeling this way that he's innocent when 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:14.520 it's so clear he's guilty. Munch is like, I missed 0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:16.560 the days where we didn't rely on DNA. We went 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:18.320 with our gut, and I would say I think a 0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:21.320 lot of wrongfully incarcerated people who have been exonerated by 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:24.840 DNA do not miss those days, mister Munch. I know 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.240 that that's like a fun thing, but DNA is usually 0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:31.120 pretty correct. So now Amorrow is talking to DNA tech 0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.560 Susan Chung, who is played by Karen sen Lee, and 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:37.160 this is her first episode out of nine episodes she 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:40.240 plays as this character, but she has also played two 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:44.640 other one time roles on SVU episodes, and more recently, 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:48.640 she played Christine Chang, the evil trafficker in The Counselor 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:53.160 It's Chinatown episodes. So she is all over SVU this woman, 0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:55.160 but this is her first role as Susan Chung and 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:57.760 she has been in nine episodes as her. And she's 0:33:57.800 --> 0:34:00.800 telling Tomorrow, there's no way this idea is not legit. 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.480 There's too many matching points. It would be virtually impossible. 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.440 There's like not enough people existing in New York that 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.080 could make it that there's another person that this belongs to. 0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:12.840 And Tomorrow is like, yeah, but there's been like DNA 0:34:12.960 --> 0:34:15.800 lab scandals lately where people are trying to pad conviction rates, 0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:19.600 and she goes so all four labs in different states, 0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:22.440 including Hours, one of the best in the country, conspired 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:26.080 together to take Gabriel down. You got a motive, and. 0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:28.800 It's like, loll come on tomorrow, like you look really dumb. 0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:31.080 You look so dumb right now? 0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:31.480 Okay. 0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:36.640 In Cragan's office, Amarro walks in with some interesting info. 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.799 The victim from the Halloween assault says her rapist had 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.960 a chip tooth and a long abdominal scar. Gabriel has 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.880 perfect teeth and he was one hundred miles away that 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:48.279 night at Johns Hopkins, and there are witnesses that say 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:51.640 he never left, and Amorro's like someone could have planted 0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:55.160 his DNA and Craigan is like, and what stopped after 0:34:55.200 --> 0:34:57.960 the fourth rape? Like that's kind of you're pushing it. 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:01.680 And Craigan's like he can can tell that Tomorrow's really invested. 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:04.120 And the Halloween things seems suspicious. So what do we 0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.680 know about the family. Benson and Tomorrow go to find 0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:09.839 out at the hospital. Gabriel tells them that he's an 0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:12.920 only child as far as he knows, and they're like what, 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:15.319 and he's like, I was adopted, and he says he's 0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:18.040 never contacted his biological mom because he was never interested. 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:21.560 And he tells them that his adoptive parents were great 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:23.520 people and he was raised right because he thought that 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.759 they were trying to, like, you know, say that he 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.720 was traumatized by his adoption and that's why he committed 0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:32.439 these crimes. And so now we're at a halfway house 0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:35.040 in Trenton, New Jersey, and there's a woman sitting at 0:35:35.040 --> 0:35:38.399 a table just ripping butts indoors and there's a huge 0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:40.399 ashtray next to her like that's her full time job, 0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.160 is smoking SIGs inside and she tells them how she 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:46.279 got pregnant seventeen around nineteen seventy five or seventy six. 0:35:46.320 --> 0:35:48.880 She couldn't even take care of herself, let alone two babies. 0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:54.600 And they're like, wait, twins, dun dun, dun dunn, here 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:57.160 we go. If the name of the episode didn't give 0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.160 you a little hinty hint, we're getting to it now. 0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.120 And she goes. Benson goes, so they didn't go to 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:05.480 the same home, and the woman goes, yeah, back then 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:08.759 they separated identical some crazy experiment, but they paid me 0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:11.239 a lot. Have you seen the documentary or heard of 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:13.200 the documentary Three Identical Strangers? 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.200 You know it? Bitch watched it on a Delta fly. 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.319 Yeah, so it's this, This is it basically like at 0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:21.400 this I think those guys were a little bit older. 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:23.480 Maybe they were separated in like the sixties, but. 0:36:23.680 --> 0:36:26.600 And filled with tragedy. I mean, there's like ethics and 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:29.319 science and experiments and you don't get to just like 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:33.280 take and separate babies and see what happens like these 0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:34.920 those three men were. 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:39.880 Fucked, yeah, very traumatized, and it's just like you're not 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.440 allowed to kind of like take people away from the 0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:43.200 only family. 0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:44.320 Well, and the other. 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:46.960 Case that we covered with the twins, you know, the 0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:50.080 gender twins cutting off a dick and seeing what happens. Yeah, 0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:51.879 I forgot. Yeah, yeah, there was more like. 0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:54.960 Using twins as experiments is very unethical, for sure. 0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:57.359 Super ethical. I did mention Delta. I don't know if uh. 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.239 This weekend at one of my shows, there was a 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:05.920 Delta pilot in the audience. It was exciting. I walked 0:37:05.960 --> 0:37:08.680 on stage and pointed at him and went, I'm Diamond bitch, 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:13.200 and it was fun. But the cops were actually called 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:16.120 that show. There was like hecklers, a full fight like 0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:20.759 we saw like cops. Yeah, because this guy was heckling 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:23.880 one of my friends and wouldn't stop. So the security 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:25.800 was like, hey, you gotta stop, and he wouldn't. And 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:28.239 then it was a full like I went to just 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:29.880 get paid and I came back and a guy was 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:33.000 shoved against a wall two security guards that are all 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:36.920 x NYPD, just like a full punch knockout, and then 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:38.520 the cops said to be there and asked all these 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:44.879 questions after it was Jesus, it was really wild. New York. 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:46.000 Never a dull moment. 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:52.640 Yeah. So anyway, Yeah, that waitress during right after the fight, 0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:55.040 this comic was like, Okay, my set will be back. 0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:58.240 I'll get them back. A waitress dropped a whole tray. 0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:02.160 Oh yeah, just walk off stage. 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:07.560 Forget it. Forget it. Call that subtle wash. So this 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:11.760 woman says, this biological mom says that she has heard 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.720 from one of the twins, and she's heard from Brian, 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:18.200 and he came to visit her twenty years ago. She 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:20.040 doesn't know where he is, but she says, I read 0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.320 about him in the paper. He had it tough because 0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:25.360 it turned out that Brian's adopted parents the mother killed 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:29.000 the father, drugged him and burned him in front of Brian. 0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.280 And she's like, I think it happened in Richmond, maybe Norfolk, 0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:35.480 so it's somewhere in Virginia. And then he came to 0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:37.400 see her again a couple months after the trial, and 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:39.320 he was looking for a relationship and she said, I 0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:41.520 already gave him up once. He should have taken the hint. 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:45.400 So she's not exactly mom material. And she definitely told 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:48.120 him that he had a twin, and he said he 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.319 always knew something was missing, so and. 0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:54.160 That mom is such a bitch, Like she's like, ah right, 0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:57.040 the violins are playing. I don't give us yeah yeah, 0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:03.000 yeah care. He has this brother and someone was burnt 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:06.319 in front of him at Hugh and he's like John 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:07.320 Mira's vibes. 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:10.239 He's not asking for like money, He's just like, hey, 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:11.920 could we like maybe visit once in a while and 0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:14.719 have a relationship. And she's like not interested. I've got 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:16.759 some more cigarettes to smoke. I really have to go. 0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:20.560 So now we're getting the low down on the whole 0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:23.440 murder of Brian's adopted dad. It was nineteen ninety two. 0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:26.480 The mom got the death penalty, and that Brian's name 0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:29.440 is Brian Smith and Munch is like, good luck with that, 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.279 and there's got to be a million Brian Smiths. Iced 0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:34.080 Tea is like, oh no, there's one hundred and twenty 0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:36.319 six Brian Smiths in New York. And Rollins is like, guys, 0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.720 they're twins. Let's check out the birthday. So they find 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:41.520 one match and this is a guy who was a 0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.640 provisional for the Parks Department. He started that job this year. 0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:48.399 As the photo downloads, we see bump bum bump, bump, bump, 0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:51.839 bump bum. It is tr Night again. It is the 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:56.680 same fucking guy. There is an identical Twins situation happening here, 0:39:56.719 --> 0:40:01.279 and the squad is shook Amorrow, like, let's go get 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:04.280 this guy, and Craigan's like, we gotta fill in Novak. 0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:06.520 There's some issues here, hold on, like cause you know, 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:09.880 there's all kinds of I don't know, not double jeopardy, 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:12.040 but like different kinds of reasonable doubt things so that 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:12.399 they have. 0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:12.840 To check on. 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.960 So Amara is like giving Rollins kind of like and 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:18.279 I told you so face, and Rollin's just just like, 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:20.040 I mean, who could have imagined that? 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:24.120 Yeah, it's like obviously she's a dumb bitch for other reasons, 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.040 but like, how you're right, Like how do we know 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:29.600 that there's a hidden double Twins somewhere? Right? 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:32.200 And we've seen plenty of like buttoned up guys, but 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:34.239 I mean, Amaro just had a feeling about this guy. 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:38.279 And so they go see Novak and she's fucking lit up. 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.000 She's like this is the definition of reasonable doubt, Like 0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:42.800 this is fucked Like, we're never gonna be able to 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:45.319 get anyone on these rapes now. And they're like, no, 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.120 Brian's plan has been to frame his twin. He's followed 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.960 him city to city and she's like, yeah, but like, 0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:53.000 we cannot prove which one did it if they have 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:55.440 the same DNA and like the same tattoo and like 0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.879 identification from victims. And they're like, what if we catch 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:01.480 Brian in the act. Let's let him think that Gabriel's 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:05.040 on the loose again. And then Lovak's like what and 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:07.680 terrorize New York City And they're like, we set a 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:09.680 trap and we've got the perfect. 0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:11.880 Little blondie to do it. Rollins is like, put me 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:13.360 in the game. 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:15.120 So in court, I. 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.600 Wonder if Rollins knew that this would be the beginning 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:19.959 of her long stretch of being bait. 0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:23.400 I meantly bait. I feel like she's probably one of 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.200 the only detectives that can like jog continuously in the 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.920 park for a long time. She's so in shape. So 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:32.239 in the in court, the judge is releasing Gabriel on 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:34.600 two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bail. He's kind of like, 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:37.480 on second thought, I do release you on bail. It's 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:40.319 because we've already seen him be denied bail, so now 0:41:40.320 --> 0:41:42.000 he's getting out on two hundred and fifty k bail 0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:44.000 and you're confined to the state of New York and 0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:46.520 you have to continue psych treatment. And so now in 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:49.520 holding Gabriel is very confused talking to Tomorrow. He's like, 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:51.560 if I'm free, why am I not at home? Like 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:53.759 what's going on? My lawyer won't even tell me what's 0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:56.120 going on? And Tomorrow is like, you'll know everything once 0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:58.400 we have it sorted out, just like sit tight, and 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:00.319 he's like, do I have any choice? And the answer 0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:02.640 is no, you don't. Okay. So now the top of 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:05.480 the final act, we are on Rollin's jogging through Central 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:08.240 Park with her perky little ponytails swaying in the breeze, 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.120 and she's asking through an earpiece, like do we have 0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:13.160 eyes on him? So we're watching this trap in motion. 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.520 Amorrow is nearby and he's like, you know, he's been 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.239 watching you for four days and all he's done is 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:20.560 snap a few picks. Maybe you're not his type after all, 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:24.520 and Rollin's okay, yeah, She's like fuck you. She's like, 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:28.360 I'm your type for Amorro. And so Rollins stops to 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:32.000 stretch and we see Brian staring at her and he does. 0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:34.120 He is the same as tier Nite, but he's got 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:35.960 like more of like a sort of emo haircut, and 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:37.880 he does look like he's wearing eyeliner. I don't know 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:40.719 if that's real, but he has like a darker under 0:42:40.800 --> 0:42:43.920 eye situation, and they think she's hooked him. He starts 0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:46.640 following her on his bike, and Tomorrow's also on a 0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:48.920 bike following, but then he like runs into a nanny 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:51.600 and that completely throws his entire thing off track and 0:42:51.640 --> 0:42:55.000 he loses Rollin's and she's still jogging and I'm like, wow, 0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:57.000 this must have been a very exhausting scene because I'm 0:42:57.040 --> 0:42:58.520 sure they shot it more than ones. And she's like 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:00.960 NonStop jogging. Maybe it's because I just hate running that 0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:05.200 this is really triggering me. And Tomorrow asks her to 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:07.560 update her location, but all we hear is static and 0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:10.400 he and then we see her like jogging through a tunnel. 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:12.520 We see him right behind her. She can obviously feel 0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:15.080 him right behind her, and then just coming out of 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.879 the tunnel, he skids his bike right in front of her, 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:21.160 stops her, knocking her to the ground, and like before 0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:22.680 we know it, he's on top of her with a 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:25.359 knife to her neck and Rollins is like, so so down, 0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:26.040 so down. I'll give you what. 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.200 Yeah, I think she's scared, Like is this going to 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:30.920 be traumatizing for her? Or is this just like, oh, 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.040 part of the job, Like that's what I was wondering. 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:35.840 I think it's like at the time, she's probably just 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.680 like running on adrenaline and is like, I know I 0:43:37.680 --> 0:43:39.319 can talk this guy out of it, or I can 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:41.440 like stop this guy until someone comes to help me. 0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:43.560 You know, it is kind of wild. This is all 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:45.719 happening in broad daylight too, Like I feel like it 0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:48.080 seems most of the attacks have been at night, but 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:51.839 this one is broad daylight, and it's hard to find 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:54.360 places in Central Park where there's truly like nobody in 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:56.960 the middle of the day, like it's very populated, but 0:43:57.680 --> 0:44:01.440 you know, here they are. And Amanda's like, I got that, 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:02.920 like it's okay, it's okay, I'll give you. 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:03.720 What you want or whatever. 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:05.680 And he's like, look at me, like doing the same 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.960 kind of shit, like look in my eyes, and Tomorrow 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:13.279 finally gets there surprises him. When he sees Tomorrow, he 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:15.920 like looks up and then Rollins punches him across the 0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:18.720 face and gets him off of her then Amorrow jumps 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:20.600 on him and just starts punching the fuck out of 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:23.480 this guy, and Rollins is like, enough enough, and then 0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:26.640 afterwards she's like and then eventually, you know, he gets 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.160 off of him, and she's like, what the fuck, Tomorrow, 0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:31.520 are you like trying to blow this case? Like stop 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.240 with your stabler bullshit? We just got rid of one stabler, 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:37.440 we don't need another one. So at the precinct, Rollins 0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:40.160 is like begging to be able to question this dude, 0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:42.160 which Novak is like, in no way is that going 0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:44.719 to happen, Like he had just attacked you, and a 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.400 defense attorney will have that completely thrown out, like anything 0:44:47.400 --> 0:44:49.920 you say to him. So then we're in interrogation with 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.120 Brian and he's trying to say, oh, she came on 0:44:52.200 --> 0:44:54.920 to me, like in the tunnel like and Finn's like, 0:44:54.960 --> 0:44:57.560 oh really, so why the knife, Like we've got you dude, 0:44:57.600 --> 0:44:59.360 like you don't like whip out a knife when a 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:02.200 woman comes on to you. And so Brian says, you 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:04.280 don't even know the half of it. And he says, 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.680 but I will only talk to her the blonde, so 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:11.120 and Finn's like there's no way, and he goes okay, lawyer, 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:13.680 so he knows what's up. He lawyers up the second 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:15.400 that they don't let him talk to his little girlfriend 0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:19.400 and they're outside talking to Novak about it and everything, 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:23.160 and they're like, so if he doesn't talk to the blonde, 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.879 he walks and Benson like pushes for Rollins to get 0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:29.200 allowed in there, and then they allow it. So she's 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:31.839 in there now and he's like, you look so much 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:34.200 prettier when you smile, like he does that to her 0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:38.480 and it's like, ugh, I think like that should be 0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:41.959 in a legal phrase. And now Rollins is laying down 0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:44.959 her signature flirtatious interrogation style. This is where we're seeing 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:47.880 the beginning of it, right, And she's like, I've been 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:49.799 wanting to talk to you for a while. I'm a 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:51.080 Southern girl. I named you. 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:53.000 I've been obsessed with you, like I always thought I 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:53.640 was your type. 0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:56.640 Like it's a whole thing. She's really going in laying 0:45:56.640 --> 0:45:58.760 it on thick, and he's like, hell, yeah, you're my type. 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:01.120 And she's like you're the best and he's like I 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:03.759 am the best and it's freaky, and then she's like 0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.319 he's like, but you teased me in the park. And 0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:08.480 he's like, oh, like all the other girls. And the 0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:10.520 guy's like, oh, no, that was my brother, Like he 0:46:10.600 --> 0:46:12.719 kind of knows, like he's walking the line of like, 0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:15.879 you know, I'm awesome at what I do, but also 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:19.640 I didn't do anything. And then she explains that the 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:21.919 whole follow your brother in pin rapes on him theory, 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:23.879 and he's like no, no, no, you said that. That's 0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:25.799 not me. And then she goes, why don't you lift 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:27.239 up your shirt and he's like what. She goes, lift 0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:28.680 up your shirt for me, baby, I want to show 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.759 you something. So she's really like laying it on thick 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:34.080 and he lifts it up and we see the scar 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:37.359 that other victims have talked about and she's like, yeah, see, 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:39.719 the thing is your twin doesn't have that scar and 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:41.800 he also doesn't have a chip tooth, and we have 0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:44.319 victims that saw both of those. And he's like it 0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.080 was dark. Witnesses make mistakes, you know that. And she 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:49.319 presses him on that Halloween rape and is like, you 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:51.200 know what, your brother was one hundred miles away that 0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:55.560 night with witnesses. And she brings up the screwdriver with 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.040 the fingerprint and she's like, that's kind of sloppy work 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:00.520 for you. And she's like, cause you you know, twins 0:47:00.520 --> 0:47:02.879 have the same DNA but different fingerprints, So like, once 0:47:02.920 --> 0:47:06.160 we get that fingerprint back comparing it to yours, it's 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.120 not going to look good for you. But you knew 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:10.480 that and that's why you started wearing gloves. And so 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:13.520 she starts talking about how he had it so hard 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:15.600 in his life and he was with this kind of 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.640 crazy family where there was this murder and Gabriel had 0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:21.319 this nice family, great parents. Now he's married, with a 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:24.320 good job and a beautiful son, and like that's not fair. 0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:28.839 And then she brings up what his biological mother said 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:30.719 about giving him up and about him not taking the 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.120 hint the first time, and he's like, she's a drunk 0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:36.799 whore who cares, and Rollins is like, well, she sure 0:47:36.920 --> 0:47:39.239 made time to take care of Gabriel. She made sure 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:41.680 he got a good home, she sent him birthday cards. 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:43.920 Like I don't think any of that's true, but like she's, 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:48.000 you know, she's leaning into it, and he insists. He's like, no, 0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:50.240 I had good parents. I had good parents, and Rollin's 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:52.839 is like, yeah, dude, your mom's a murderer. Like so 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:54.840 it don't try to like run that game on me. 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:57.279 And he insists that it didn't break him, and she 0:47:57.280 --> 0:47:59.960 says that would break anyone, and she's she really gets 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.279 it's like vulnerable with him and is like, I just 0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:04.359 think no one's ever really listened to you. I want 0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:07.359 to hear your whole story, not just these mistakes. I've 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:10.320 got all night. I'm not leaving you, and she says, 0:48:10.560 --> 0:48:13.000 look at me, look at my face, like kind of 0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:17.080 repeats his words to him, and that's like the next 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:20.200 that's the last we see of like this horny little 0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:24.520 interrogation scene with Rollins, and we cut to Gabriel in 0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:27.719 his holding cell and they tell him it's over. You're free, 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:30.640 and he's like what happened? Like what is going on? 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:33.239 And then Amaro's like, we found the guy and they 0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:35.359 lead him to the two way glass where they show 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:39.759 him his twin brother inside the whole, inside the interrogation room. 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:43.120 He's obviously shocked. He's like, I didn't know, and then 0:48:43.120 --> 0:48:47.000 Amarro goes he did, And that's Dick Wolf Baby a 0:48:47.080 --> 0:48:49.280 complete classic in my opinion. 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:52.359 Damn no, it's an amazing episode, and even though I've 0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:54.279 seen it so many times, I'm stressed every time I 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:54.680 watch it. 0:48:55.440 --> 0:48:59.200 Yeah, I'm like, come on, why do you think he 0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:02.440 did that? Like he like the whole thing was based 0:49:02.440 --> 0:49:04.400 on framing his brother for it, So like, why do 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:07.880 you think he did that that Halloween one? Like, if 0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:10.560 you know your brother's one hundred miles away, why did 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:11.120 you do that? 0:49:11.920 --> 0:49:14.080 Well? Maybebe if he did arriage was a. 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:15.960 Last minute thing and he didn't know they were going all. 0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:17.960 But did they drive one hundred miles to Johns Hopkins? 0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:19.560 I guess so it's a great hospital. You're right, that's 0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:20.200 probably what happened. 0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:22.760 I didn't say it. You just talked to yourself. I 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:26.960 did not even say anything. But also, maybe he is 0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:30.800 super calculated. But then like, let's say he sees a hottie. Yeah, 0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:34.799 and a crime of opportunity opportunity versus like planning. So 0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:37.600 but I'm also basing on the true crime that I'm 0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:40.840 thinking of, where he didn't there was no rhyme and reason, 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:43.760 So like, you know, maybe the urge is just too 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:46.840 big to murder and slash. 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:48.759 I mean, race, I cannot wait to hear about this. 0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:49.920 I have no idea about this. 0:49:50.000 --> 0:49:53.439 Well, there's a couple case. Everything is nuts. It's as 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:56.200 nuts as the episode. Let's let's do that. We'll get 0:49:56.200 --> 0:50:14.040 into the commercial. We'll see you soon. Okay, we are back. 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:17.640 There's two cases, and I love that. 0:50:18.000 --> 0:50:20.719 I love when they just mash up two cases perfectly 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:23.880 into one beautiful SVU omelet. 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:27.160 I think these are well mixed. I mean, obviously the 0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:29.919 twin case is overwhelming, but then the other one has 0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:32.720 lots of stuff and it's they're both really really fucked. 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:34.839 The other case had a name, you know what I mean, 0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:38.239 the East Coast Rapists. So yeah, it's like, if you 0:50:38.320 --> 0:50:40.919 have a name that means I guess you're there, should 0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:45.440 be prolific with a negative connotation. Yeah, because you've got 0:50:45.480 --> 0:50:49.319 our famous, notorious notorious there we go, all right. So 0:50:49.360 --> 0:50:52.799 the first case is Darren Fernandez case. And in two 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:55.560 thousand and one, Darren Fernandez attempted to break into an 0:50:55.560 --> 0:51:00.920 apartment in Dorchester, which is a neighborhood in Boston. Dorchester. Yeah, 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:04.200 and he smashed the window to get inside. Amateur move 0:51:04.760 --> 0:51:07.879 because the person now inside is alerted that someone broke 0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:10.760 their window. And also he cut himself and left blood 0:51:10.960 --> 0:51:15.360 everywhere as he fled. So and when the police found 0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:18.719 him in like a chase, he was still bleeding, So 0:51:18.760 --> 0:51:22.080 the police analyzed the DNA from the broken glass they found, 0:51:22.160 --> 0:51:25.440 and he was a match for genetic material found in 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:29.720 two unsolved sexual assault cases, both of which were committed 0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:32.359 within a few blocks of the apartment Fernandez had tried 0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:36.600 to break into. Fernandez was convicted of attempted breaking and 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:40.000 entering and also eventually convicted of one of the sexual assaults. 0:51:40.640 --> 0:51:44.520 So then the other cases, though they only had DNA evidence, 0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:48.560 no other evidence, and that's obviously a huge issue because 0:51:48.600 --> 0:51:52.319 his DNA matched his twin brother, Damien. So how do 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:55.960 you convict someone for a thing where the only evidence 0:51:56.120 --> 0:51:59.560 is DNA. So there was DNA found on the pillowcase, 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:02.520 and it could be either brother, even though the other 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:07.600 brother is like chill, But again it's the reasonable doubt situation. 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:12.560 And so also so during the first assault, the victim 0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:15.239 noticed the tattoo that his brother did not have, so 0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:18.400 it was easier to convict, and the tattoo said twins 0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:25.920 with a z oh my God. So the second assault, 0:52:25.960 --> 0:52:30.160 though no witnesses or accomplices or fingerprints, and then Darren 0:52:30.239 --> 0:52:32.400 nor Damien had an alibi to cover the time of 0:52:32.440 --> 0:52:34.920 the assault of that one, so it was just kind 0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:37.799 of difficult, and the police couldn't place either brother at 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:40.040 the scene of the crime, and the DNA that damned 0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:43.920 Darren in the other trial had only established reasonable doubt 0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:47.040 in this one, and so the case went to trial 0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:50.480 anyways in two thousand and four. The jury, after four 0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:52.680 days of deliberation, could not decide, and it was a 0:52:52.719 --> 0:52:54.000 hung jury in a mistrial. 0:52:54.160 --> 0:52:55.359 Oh my gosh. 0:52:55.520 --> 0:52:58.040 Then there was a second trial several months later in 0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:00.200 two thousand and five, which also ended up in a 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:04.120 hung jury and a mistrial. But those deadlocked cases the 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:07.080 victim did not testify about the tattoo, and the jurors 0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:12.920 were never told about Darren's earlier conviction. THESS tattoo is huge. 0:53:12.960 --> 0:53:15.080 Why would that not be it? No, there's like so 0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:19.680 many of it is. It's strange, Oh my god, go on, 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:21.919 but we hear this shit all the time where it's 0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:27.279 like people's past arm brought up. Yeah, things just it. 0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:30.399 It's people, human errors, people do bad jobs or don't care, 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:34.080 like don't think about it, or something was suppressed like 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:38.440 I don't fucking know. Yeah. The prosecution brought up now though, 0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:40.799 that Darren was working as a painter near where the 0:53:40.840 --> 0:53:44.120 assault occurred, but that again is still not enough. So 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:47.880 two thousand and six, Holy shit, Fernandez goes on trial 0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:50.480 for a third time, and this time the prosecution for 0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:52.680 the first time was able to present evidence that they 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:55.720 weren't able to before, which was that he had committed 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.560 four break ins in this in the victim's neighborhood within 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:01.640 a year and convicted of one sexual assault too. In 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:05.160 August of two thousand, the victim of that assault, who 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:07.880 did not testify at the previous two trials, took the 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:10.880 stand this time around to highlight the similarities of her 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:15.680 attack that like shared with the case. Damian Fernandez also 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:19.080 testified at all the trials and that he was in Worcester, 0:54:19.920 --> 0:54:23.000 Worcester worst I knew it wors just tester as a 0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:27.640 sauce right. Damien Fernandez testified at all the trials that 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:32.520 he was in wor Worcester what is Worcester Worster where 0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:35.240 he lived during the time of the attack. The jury 0:54:35.280 --> 0:54:38.600 finally returned with a guilty verdict, and five years after 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:41.840 his initial arrest, Darren Fernandez was sentenced to fifteen to 0:54:41.880 --> 0:54:44.279 twenty years in jail on top of the ten to 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:47.000 fifteen year sentence he was already serving for that first 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:50.840 assault that they were able to convict on. He won't 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:54.120 begin serving the second sentence until he has finished serving 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:57.960 his first sentence. And then some article I found this 0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:01.240 has nothing to do with anything. What if conjoined twins 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:03.919 commit a crime? What do you do? 0:55:06.320 --> 0:55:08.240 Like, only one of the twins does the crime? 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:10.200 Yeah, like, what if you're at a bar and you're 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:14.160 conjoined by whatever body part? Use your imaginations and. 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:18.080 Then one of them smacks someone with a beer bottle stabs? Yeah, 0:55:18.160 --> 0:55:22.640 what did you do? I have no idea. That is wild. 0:55:23.640 --> 0:55:24.440 He's a great question. 0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:27.920 Conjoined episode. So I guess the next case is the 0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:29.560 bigger case since there's more info. 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.720 So this is just like Darren. Darren had the twins tattoo, 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:34.200 Like Darren was the one that did it. 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:37.120 Damien. Damien is just the guy. 0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:40.440 Damien's just like I didn't do anything, but I guess 0:55:40.560 --> 0:55:44.280 I like, but he just his existence is providing reasonable 0:55:44.320 --> 0:55:45.760 doubt for his brother who's a criminal. 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:49.040 Wow. Yeah, so it wasn't like two shady brothers or 0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:53.120 someone helping, or that Darren even did this maliciously to 0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:56.040 frame the brother or any adoption. I think he's just 0:55:56.080 --> 0:56:00.359 like a criminal, and it's just hard to prosecut if 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:02.560 the DNA is the only evidence you have, if there's 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:05.000 double the DNA out in the world. 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:07.120 Do you know Jermaine Fowler is a twin? 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:08.120 No? 0:56:08.200 --> 0:56:08.720 I didn't. 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:11.640 Yeah, he's a twin and his brother, his twin brother 0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.600 has gone to jail. And I think he's made like 0:56:14.640 --> 0:56:16.560 a lot of jokes about this too, like that his 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.719 brother could be like committing crimes like and getting him 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:21.880 busted for shit. I think I think I've seen Jermaine 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:22.760 do that material. 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:26.359 So yeah, it's like not as dramatic as the episode, 0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:30.799 but it's just the existence of twins does fuck shit up? Yeah. Now, 0:56:30.840 --> 0:56:34.759 this next case that s you found inspiration, I would say, 0:56:34.800 --> 0:56:39.040 is the Aaron H. Thomas case aka the East Coast Rapist. 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:44.040 Born in August of nineteen seventy one. Thomas, of course 0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:48.880 the son of an officer. Okay, so he's a DC 0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:52.759 officer's kid whose nickname is Big Don. And then the 0:56:52.840 --> 0:56:56.040 mom was a career Geico employee, which is like such 0:56:56.040 --> 0:56:58.640 a like a brand name that's not it could be 0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:01.240 like she worked in insurance that they had to write 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.280 that she worked at Geico, and then they're like fifteen 0:57:04.280 --> 0:57:06.600 minutes or more could save you money on your car insurance. 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:10.319 And this is like, uh, this research was actually really 0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:13.520 annoying to do. And there's a lot there's so many 0:57:13.600 --> 0:57:18.600 dates and crimes. This is a really like notorious psychopath. 0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:22.440 So lots of dates, lots of different things, lots of 0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:26.480 conflicting information, but like in some things, they said that 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:30.840 Aaron's father was a doting father figure, fun loving companion, 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:34.400 but then also jealous, violent, prone to sneak out at 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:36.920 night and pray on the vulnerable and hide his actions 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:42.080 from everyone, like what okay, But also Thomas recalls being 0:57:42.120 --> 0:57:44.880 beat with like thick police uniform belts and his father 0:57:45.000 --> 0:57:48.640 like slamming him into walls and stuff. So like, I 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:51.439 don't know, I guess that's like most abusive people. They're 0:57:51.480 --> 0:57:56.520 like nice sometimes and then full yeah, lunatics. Some family 0:57:56.520 --> 0:58:00.000 members described the screaming matches like lots of screaming matches, 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:04.680 constant turmoil in the childhood, and they the brothers and 0:58:04.720 --> 0:58:07.000 like the family said that Aaron Thomas was like a 0:58:07.000 --> 0:58:13.160 class clown, fun like silly kid. But then his brother, 0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:15.840 who's this military guy, was like, excuse me, no, he 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:18.800 was a volatile child. And always found his way into 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:22.560 trouble and then like he was it's like he was 0:58:22.600 --> 0:58:25.840 oblivious to any consequences. And then they go into this 0:58:25.840 --> 0:58:27.320 thing where it's like, I can't believe they call this 0:58:27.360 --> 0:58:30.959 guy a class clown and funny. He beat a kid 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:35.120 with a chain from a playground swing. Once he super 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:38.640 glued his brother's hands to his bed, and sometimes he 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:41.880 would sneak sleeping pills and like poison his brothers with 0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:44.720 sleeping pills to see what happened. He one time start 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:49.240 lit fireworks indoors and started a fire. He tried drowning 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:54.600 the family dog. So to me, it's just like strange. 0:58:54.640 --> 0:58:56.880 They're like, yeah, it was a fun family life, good dad. 0:58:56.960 --> 0:58:59.360 Actually he beat me with a belt, and then it's like, oh, 0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:02.360 class clown es, and then it's like, okay, he drowned. 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:05.439 He almost drowned the family dog. And the brother said 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:07.400 it was always something that he had lack of control 0:59:07.440 --> 0:59:10.480 and odd behavior, and as a teen he spent two 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:14.160 weeks at a psychiatric facility after setting a girl's hair 0:59:14.280 --> 0:59:18.840 on fire. Oh my god, he said, accidentally. But it's 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:22.480 like what, yeah. 0:59:22.040 --> 0:59:24.680 Not with that record of other things that you've done 0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:26.400 that doesn't really ring true. 0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:31.720 It's just hard because like we're obviously compassionate to kids, 0:59:31.720 --> 0:59:34.640 and juvenile detention sucks and the system is so fucked. 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:37.520 But then it's also like, why was this guy ever 0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:40.840 let out of anything? Mm hmm. He's doing all the 0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:45.960 classic things that like criminals doing, like sociopaths. It's like, 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:48.960 it's just, yeah, some people are like but he was. 0:59:49.480 --> 0:59:53.160 He's street smart, tough, physically chiseled, and unpredictable, or is 0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:56.960 his vibe. He also found love, of course, he had 0:59:56.960 --> 1:00:01.120 a girlfriend, like obviously he really bonded with her son. 1:00:01.200 --> 1:00:04.040 And the girlfriend said all the time that though he 1:00:04.080 --> 1:00:07.160 had a nearly insatiable sex tribe, and if you didn't 1:00:07.200 --> 1:00:10.200 give it to him, he took it. And she said 1:00:10.200 --> 1:00:12.520 that to the Post, the Washington Post, and sometimes when 1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:14.600 she was able to fend off his advances, he would 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:16.960 leave for hours, and now she thinks that that's when 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:21.200 he would go rape. So yeah, gosh. Three of his 1:00:21.320 --> 1:00:23.680 rapes were actually within a half mile from where the 1:00:23.720 --> 1:00:27.160 couple lived in Forestville in nineteen ninety seven, and then 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.920 three other rapes were near their other home in Alexandria 1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:33.440 in nineteen ninety nine and he's a careless guy. He 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:37.760 left DNA at thirteen different locations, which I think just 1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:41.120 like shows how bad police are. Like so much DNA everywhere, 1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:44.920 because this is the nineties, DNA was used. Yeah, this 1:00:45.040 --> 1:00:48.720 isn't like nighttime. Stalker guy loved One said that he 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:51.560 hinted several times he had done terrible things, but was 1:00:51.600 --> 1:00:55.320 never specific when pressed further. So he committed a number 1:00:55.320 --> 1:00:59.160 of rapes in Maryland, Virginia, Connecticut, and Rhode Island since 1:00:59.280 --> 1:01:02.400 nineteen ninety six, and then even earlier. They just haven't 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:04.840 caught him. But he claims that he started attacking people 1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:07.960 in nineteen ninety two ninety three, but the ones that 1:01:08.000 --> 1:01:12.160 he's charged for from nineteen ninety seven on. His crimes 1:01:12.200 --> 1:01:14.760 span nearly half of his life and gripped the region 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.439 with fear that comes from knowing there's an unknown man 1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:21.800 lurking in the darkness, attacking strangers who were doing everyday 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:25.000 tasks like walking home from work, waiting for a bus, 1:01:25.000 --> 1:01:27.280 moving out of an apartment, or even sleeping in their 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:30.240 own bed. And the rapes began when Thomas was a 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:34.240 young man living in a burnt out pet store in Forestville, 1:01:34.880 --> 1:01:40.280 and he called it a joyless addiction, like he couldn't stop, 1:01:40.560 --> 1:01:41.720 and then compulsion. 1:01:41.800 --> 1:01:43.440 It's like he has to do it, but he's like 1:01:43.520 --> 1:01:45.040 not even getting anything out of it. 1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:48.800 No, And later on, like in the trials and all 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:52.400 of that, the mom remembers like to his sisters and stuff, 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:54.920 she would be like, be careful, don't walk home and 1:01:55.000 --> 1:01:57.840 all this, and then she realized that like her son 1:01:58.240 --> 1:02:01.200 was who she's been scared of all these years. So 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:04.200 like while telling her daughter, like don't walk home through 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:06.840 the park at night, it was to protect her from, 1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:10.120 oh my gosh, her fucking brother. And so I thought 1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:13.720 that was pretty eerie, Like just like you're you're so 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.880 scared of this kill like rapist and it's your fucking son. 1:02:17.880 --> 1:02:20.680 He said, there's no happiness. You're going after something that 1:02:20.760 --> 1:02:23.400 in the end makes you feel like garbage. He talked 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.720 a lot to the Washington Post. He's a real chatty 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:30.479 kathy but also delusional. I can't pinpoint this guy, really. 1:02:30.920 --> 1:02:32.880 He said he didn't know the victims, that they didn't 1:02:32.920 --> 1:02:35.240 know him, and even though he ruined these women's lives 1:02:35.240 --> 1:02:37.920 and they remember the attacks and very vivid and horrifying 1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:40.880 detail to him, he's like, I don't even remember their faces. 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:43.800 He's like, I don't have any true memories. 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:46.840 So he's like the opposite of like all these guys 1:02:46.840 --> 1:02:49.880 we've seen that are like, oh, yeah, my first crime 1:02:50.120 --> 1:02:52.360 was this place. I remember the girl exactly. Like the 1:02:52.360 --> 1:02:57.280 guys that really like fantasize about like the actual crime itself. 1:02:57.320 --> 1:03:01.360 This guy feels like it was just like a compulsion. Yeah, 1:03:01.760 --> 1:03:03.680 he's not even remembering anything about it. 1:03:03.720 --> 1:03:05.880 Wow. No, And later he goes, I didn't really even 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:08.920 hurt them. I didn't try to, Like he really is 1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:13.760 like diluted. He's like, I love helping people, like he 1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:19.240 is sick. But his first attack that was linked by 1:03:19.320 --> 1:03:22.840 DNA occurred February nineteenth, nineteen ninety seven, in Forrest, Phille, 1:03:23.240 --> 1:03:26.200 when he was riding a ten speed bicycle. He pulled 1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:28.360 up alongside a twenty five year old woman who was 1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:30.720 walking home from her job at a fast food restaurant. 1:03:30.960 --> 1:03:32.800 He started chatting her up, and then he pulled out 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:34.800 a gun and forced her into the nearby woods and 1:03:34.880 --> 1:03:38.800 raped her. And what's extra interesting about him and sometimes 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:41.320 he wouldn't even use guns. It would be like umbrella 1:03:41.560 --> 1:03:45.400 like umbrella handles and ripped off things that felt like guns. 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:48.960 But weren't. Yeah, so people were scared and thought it 1:03:49.000 --> 1:03:50.480 was a real gun, but it would just be like 1:03:50.560 --> 1:03:54.880 plastic pieces off of other things. So how he started, 1:03:55.560 --> 1:03:58.880 you know, he was living in this pet store at 1:03:58.880 --> 1:04:01.880 that was abandoned and bird down because he was kicked 1:04:01.880 --> 1:04:04.120 out of his parents' house in Fort Washington. So he 1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:07.400 was homeless, jobless and penniless and living in this pet 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.560 store and you don't know, he saw sex worker walking 1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:12.600 down the street, he got her attention, and then again 1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:15.640 it's like the classic. He basically like would find people 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:18.320 in more public spaces, lure them into the woods, and 1:04:18.360 --> 1:04:21.680 then rape. And he said he felt like an animal, 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:27.280 but he didn't care. So throughout his like it's not 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:33.360 a career. Throughout his spree, he straight up adducted. He 1:04:33.400 --> 1:04:35.120 like raped a woman who was in the process of 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:38.240 moving from her Lesberg apartment. He bound her with rope, 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:41.320 threatened her with a screwdriver before stealing her clothes and 1:04:41.400 --> 1:04:44.600 leaving her naked and on top of the screwdrivers. He 1:04:44.680 --> 1:04:48.760 used handguns, knives, broken bottles, and then like the fake weapons. 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:51.920 On four occasions he attacked more than one victim. In 1:04:52.000 --> 1:04:56.640 the same incident, he began targeting women along Fairfax County's 1:04:56.760 --> 1:04:59.680 Route one corridor, a busy area of strip malls and 1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:03.000 apartment at buildings, and then continued to Leesburg and then 1:05:03.000 --> 1:05:07.240 again in Fairfax and Prince George Counties. In two thousand 1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:10.120 and six, after four years of no known attacks, a 1:05:10.160 --> 1:05:13.640 young girl in Cranston, Rhode Island, saw a stranger poking 1:05:13.680 --> 1:05:16.640 his head through a sliding glass door that led to 1:05:16.760 --> 1:05:20.560 like the back deck, and then he ran away, but 1:05:20.640 --> 1:05:25.120 the DNA left behind matched this rapist. Oh shit, so 1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:27.000 it was about to happen. But I don't really know 1:05:27.040 --> 1:05:29.080 what made him run away, but he ran away, but 1:05:29.280 --> 1:05:33.200 the evidence was there. The following January, Thomas raped a 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:35.720 New Haven woman as her infant son slept in a 1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:39.560 crib in the same room. And then this one's really 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:43.200 really fucked up. He in two thousand and nine, on Halloween, 1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:47.000 attacked three teenage tricker treaders in Prince William County, Virginia, 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:49.560 which was the last in a string of at least 1:05:49.560 --> 1:05:53.120 thirteen attacks linked to him throughout like all of these states. 1:05:53.760 --> 1:05:56.760 The attack on Halloween, he took his girlfriend's car and 1:05:56.800 --> 1:05:59.440 she assumed he was just running errands, and then the 1:05:59.520 --> 1:06:02.480 rapist forced three teenage trick or treats into the woods 1:06:02.480 --> 1:06:04.520 at gunpoint and sex and it was a fake gun 1:06:05.080 --> 1:06:07.400 and sexually assaulted two of them, but the third one 1:06:07.720 --> 1:06:11.480 was able to frantically text and call for help. And 1:06:12.400 --> 1:06:14.320 one victim told the post that she was praying and 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:15.760 she was like, I thought I was gonna die. I 1:06:15.800 --> 1:06:18.440 mean they straight up like you could tell, like they 1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:20.840 had to drop their trick or treating bags of candy, 1:06:21.160 --> 1:06:22.800 Like this is how young they were. They were just 1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:24.880 like out getting candy and had to like leave their 1:06:24.920 --> 1:06:27.080 candy behind to be ushered into the woods and this 1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:31.280 like fucked up thing. And after the girl called for 1:06:31.320 --> 1:06:33.880 help and texted, Thomas heard a lot of footsteps and 1:06:33.960 --> 1:06:37.680 realized like, oh, people are coming, so but he was 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.200 able to get away. He straight up like cops were 1:06:40.280 --> 1:06:42.720 all over swarming and he just calmly like walked away 1:06:42.760 --> 1:06:47.360 and got into his car and drove away from the scene. Jesus, yeah, 1:06:47.440 --> 1:06:49.520 he just like chill, and he went back to his 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:54.600 girlfriend's apartment and went to sleep. Was not affected. He 1:06:54.640 --> 1:06:57.120 would attack women and then he would watch the news 1:06:57.120 --> 1:06:59.320 for coverage of his rapes. So in the late nineteen 1:06:59.400 --> 1:07:01.280 nineties he were members reading about a man on a 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:04.200 bicycle attacking women, and he would be like, wow, I'm 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:06.920 the man on the bike Psycho. 1:07:07.640 --> 1:07:10.440 He told them, it's truly wild because it's like you 1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:12.960 don't remember the attacks, you don't remember the specifics, but 1:07:12.960 --> 1:07:15.040 then you like want to look up so that you 1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:17.120 can have this weird sense of like fame in your 1:07:17.120 --> 1:07:19.040 own head. That's so strange. 1:07:19.680 --> 1:07:22.760 No, he is strange. He's not like anyone we've really had, 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:25.080 or he's like an amalgamation, like he's like a lot 1:07:25.080 --> 1:07:29.360 of different pieces, but nothing really clicks, because we've had 1:07:29.440 --> 1:07:34.440 other people who refuse, who like refuse to acknowledge how 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:37.320 horrific what they did was. Yeah, but he admitted to 1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:41.400 doing it, like I don't. And then it's like he 1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:43.600 couldn't stop, but he didn't care, and then he would 1:07:43.600 --> 1:07:45.720 go to sleep but like to watch it like it 1:07:45.800 --> 1:07:50.640 is kind of pretty strange. He told The Washington Post 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:53.680 that his attacks emerged from his time as a desperate 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:57.040 homeless person, and that's what gave him all of these 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:01.640 urges because he felt lonely and lost. And I'm like, yeah, 1:08:01.720 --> 1:08:03.720 when I'm lonely and lost, they eat fast food, Like 1:08:03.800 --> 1:08:05.880 I don't know if like you have to go raping 1:08:05.960 --> 1:08:07.320 and living in burnt out pets. 1:08:07.480 --> 1:08:07.640 Yes. 1:08:08.720 --> 1:08:10.840 He actually spoke to the Washington Post a lot and 1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:14.800 was very open. He admitted to faking a split personality 1:08:14.840 --> 1:08:17.599 for a while. At first he blamed it on this 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:19.800 guy named Irwin who lived inside of him, and then 1:08:19.800 --> 1:08:22.799 he said, I was just making that up. Oh wow, 1:08:22.880 --> 1:08:24.639 He said he knew what he was doing all along, 1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:28.599 and he knew it was wrong. March fourth, twenty eleven, 1:08:28.680 --> 1:08:31.240 he was arrested in New Haven, Connecticut, and he immediately 1:08:31.240 --> 1:08:33.719 told police that he had the right man, but wanted 1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:35.600 to dispute what he read about the case in the 1:08:35.600 --> 1:08:38.559 newspapers in the internet. So there were just details he 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:41.680 wasn't really happy with, but he admitted to doing all 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:44.960 these killings. They were able to arrest him because they 1:08:45.000 --> 1:08:48.599 matched his DNA to a discarded cigarette butt. A tip 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:50.880 came in from someone who knew the suspect, and the 1:08:50.920 --> 1:08:55.040 authorities secretly picked up one of his discarded butts he 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:57.120 so then they found out that he was a thirty 1:08:57.200 --> 1:08:59.400 nine year old trucker. When they took him into custody 1:08:59.400 --> 1:09:02.519 in New Haven, the detectives predicted this case would be 1:09:02.600 --> 1:09:05.599 solved through a tip because they had, like they already 1:09:05.600 --> 1:09:09.080 cleared hundreds of suspects by this point, like hundreds of 1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:11.800 people were cleared. They were really investigating, and they just 1:09:11.840 --> 1:09:14.200 like needed a tip. And forensic files is like this too, 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:17.360 Like it's usually not even detective work. 1:09:17.400 --> 1:09:18.120 It's like a tip. 1:09:18.439 --> 1:09:21.200 It's one tip. You heard about the one where like 1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:23.719 a couple was fighting, so the woman called and was like, actually, 1:09:23.760 --> 1:09:27.559 I know my ex killed someone. I got into a fight, 1:09:27.640 --> 1:09:29.360 and she was like, I'm going to fucking turn you in, 1:09:29.439 --> 1:09:31.880 and then she turned him in. Fuck. 1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:34.040 No, Yeah, it was It's. 1:09:33.920 --> 1:09:37.519 A fun one. Fairfax Detective John Kelly said he had 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:39.680 long suspected it was a trucker because a lot of 1:09:39.720 --> 1:09:42.280 the attacks were near truck stops and it would have 1:09:42.400 --> 1:09:45.559 matched like the route traveling up and down Interstate ninety five. 1:09:46.040 --> 1:09:49.439 March fifth, twenty eleven, Jaylor's reported that he tried to 1:09:49.479 --> 1:09:53.000 hang himself in jail, but it didn't work, and then 1:09:53.000 --> 1:09:55.000 again he said that he just couldn't find work or 1:09:55.040 --> 1:09:57.120 a place to stay, and that's why he started doing 1:09:57.160 --> 1:09:59.560 it around nineteen and twenty. But even though he was 1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:02.479 admitting things, he's still delusional and said to the post. 1:10:02.760 --> 1:10:04.840 I just went to a woman, scared her and she 1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:05.719 gave me sex. 1:10:05.880 --> 1:10:09.120 Like I don't know, but yeah, like he doesn't understand 1:10:09.240 --> 1:10:11.600 like how it works. 1:10:11.360 --> 1:10:14.080 Detrimental it is because he doesn't even remember shit about it. 1:10:14.080 --> 1:10:16.200 He's not even getting pleasure from it in any way. 1:10:16.400 --> 1:10:20.720 It's like not like yeah, so since it doesn't affect him, 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:23.160 he doesn't realize how it affects these victims or something. 1:10:23.240 --> 1:10:25.960 Yeah, he's just like looking at it is like purely transactional, 1:10:26.120 --> 1:10:30.160 like like he robbed someone for like their purse or something. 1:10:30.240 --> 1:10:30.439 You know. 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:33.439 Yeah. He admitted that he would walk the streets notice 1:10:33.479 --> 1:10:35.959 good locations that would be good for an attack, scouting 1:10:36.080 --> 1:10:39.280 escape routes, and taking advantage of an opportunity when a 1:10:39.320 --> 1:10:41.920 woman would come along. He said he would jump out 1:10:41.920 --> 1:10:44.200 and take the women from the sidewalk into the woods, 1:10:44.200 --> 1:10:47.160 and that matches like many given accounts given by the victims. 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:50.000 He would trail these women and learn about their personal 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:52.599 lives and then attack them at night. And then he 1:10:52.640 --> 1:10:55.240 said he just couldn't stop because I figured it out, 1:10:55.280 --> 1:10:58.280 like wow, it's that easy, and so it like really 1:10:58.280 --> 1:11:00.920 seemed easy to him, So that's why he didn't want 1:11:00.960 --> 1:11:03.040 to stop. Aaron said that it was a relief that 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:04.840 he was arrested because he really didn't like living the 1:11:04.840 --> 1:11:08.040 life that he was living and it would be an 1:11:08.160 --> 1:11:10.840 end to his sickness. But it's also bullshit because after 1:11:10.840 --> 1:11:13.320 the media was like intense, he would stop for a 1:11:13.360 --> 1:11:16.679 while or he would change his appearance. So he did 1:11:16.720 --> 1:11:18.720 try to evade arrest. So for him to be like, oh, 1:11:18.720 --> 1:11:21.439 thank god, finally am caught is like, well, yeah, he 1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:24.599 tried to not be caught. He would also commit these 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:27.280 when he was mad about other shit in life, So 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:29.800 he did have a sunde and he went nuts and 1:11:29.840 --> 1:11:33.800 like went on a rampage after he was charged in 1:11:33.880 --> 1:11:39.160 an incident when he smashed his girlfriend's bathroom window after 1:11:39.240 --> 1:11:42.080 a domestic assault at the house. There was always like 1:11:42.160 --> 1:11:44.360 something that kind of sparked him to go commit these 1:11:44.400 --> 1:11:48.320 crimes in his life that he couldn't handle. Not to 1:11:48.360 --> 1:11:50.720 minimize all this, but it's like such a trend on 1:11:50.760 --> 1:11:52.680 the internet to be like just go to therapy, Like 1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:55.800 why aren't men just going to therapy? Like why are 1:11:55.800 --> 1:12:00.000 you doing this? Authorities chose Prince William County to prosecut 1:12:00.000 --> 1:12:03.080 Thomas first because it was the jurisdiction where the most 1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:06.000 recent attack occurred, and it was the most brazen. The 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:09.080 three teenage trigger treats from Halloween two thousand and nine 1:12:09.120 --> 1:12:11.920 really kind of shocked everyone, so that's where they decided 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:14.599 to do it. He pled guilty to abducting and raping 1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:16.360 a woman who was in the process of moving out 1:12:16.400 --> 1:12:19.760 of Releasburg apartment. He was sentenced to two life terms 1:12:19.760 --> 1:12:22.559 in prison on top of the more than three life 1:12:22.600 --> 1:12:26.519 sentences for the Halloween two thousand and nine attacks. So 1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:29.839 they gave him like so many life sentences they couldn't 1:12:29.840 --> 1:12:33.960 stop and they wanted to do it in Virginia because 1:12:34.000 --> 1:12:38.400 there's no parole in Virginia at all. But also if 1:12:38.400 --> 1:12:41.320 you have five life sentences sentences, then yeah, they're going 1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:44.800 to be up for parole anywhere. So like March first, 1:12:44.840 --> 1:12:47.559 twenty thirteen, he was sentenced to three life terms in 1:12:47.560 --> 1:12:50.759 prison plus an additional eighty years for the Halloween attacks, 1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:54.120 which he pled guilty to in November twenty twelve. So 1:12:54.160 --> 1:12:56.719 he ended up being indicted on six counts of first 1:12:56.760 --> 1:12:59.960 degree rape and multiple related charges from other places, which 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:03.519 total fifty four charges. At least. 1:13:03.520 --> 1:13:06.080 He pleaded guilty to everything and didn't make like these 1:13:06.120 --> 1:13:09.639 poor victims like go through trials, you know, tiny silver 1:13:09.760 --> 1:13:10.840 lining time it is. 1:13:10.960 --> 1:13:15.360 But a lot of the victims did speak at the sentencing. Yeah, yeah, 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:17.840 and that's when he said he like realized for the 1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:21.120 first time that maybe there were effects to his crimes, 1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:24.599 but not until the sentencing thing. So then in June 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:27.519 twenty fifteen, he pled guilty to three more rapes that 1:13:27.560 --> 1:13:30.200 happened between nineteen eighty seven and two thousand and one 1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:33.120 and got more life terms. And like I said, it's 1:13:33.160 --> 1:13:37.840 like really complicated, there's just so much. And then Wikipedia 1:13:38.040 --> 1:13:42.160 there is a chart of seventeen victims and their like stats, location, weapon, 1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:45.960 and like what happened in the attack. So if you 1:13:46.040 --> 1:13:49.920 wanted to just see like a very simple graph of 1:13:49.960 --> 1:13:53.880 the victims and details, I would suggest going to that Wikipedia. 1:13:54.360 --> 1:13:56.559 And a lot of the victims I noticed were black, 1:13:56.840 --> 1:14:00.960 and I wonder if that, like only two weren't, And 1:14:01.040 --> 1:14:02.960 I do wonder if that's why it took so long 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:03.880 to catch the guy. 1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:08.560 And he is black as well, right, yeah, yeah. 1:14:08.520 --> 1:14:10.760 I just wonder if they were white, if it would 1:14:10.760 --> 1:14:11.280 be quicker. 1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:14.280 Yeah, because he was really at large for like fifteen 1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:16.760 years with a lot of DNA out there before they 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:18.880 got him or like fourteen years. 1:14:19.280 --> 1:14:21.439 Yeah, and I mean, I guess you can't do paternal 1:14:21.479 --> 1:14:25.240 like I'm sure his dad's DNA was in the system. 1:14:26.320 --> 1:14:29.400 I don't know, and he was at that psychiatric facility 1:14:29.400 --> 1:14:31.880 as a kid, Like, you don't fingerprint and DNA people 1:14:31.920 --> 1:14:33.960 when they burn a girl's hair on fire. 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:36.240 Yeah, yeah, I don't know. 1:14:37.000 --> 1:14:37.439 I don't know. 1:14:38.160 --> 1:14:40.640 So that's where Munch would come in saying, yeah, you 1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:43.680 can't take everybody's fingerprints and big brother them and all 1:14:43.720 --> 1:14:45.040 that blah blah blah. 1:14:45.439 --> 1:14:48.920 Yeah. And then Thomas told Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:51.519 Horn that he needs help and treatment to figure out 1:14:51.520 --> 1:14:54.040 why and how I ended up like this. I have 1:14:54.120 --> 1:14:56.440 to be punished, and I know I need to be punished. 1:14:57.520 --> 1:15:01.200 So that's that. Horn. The jud was very poetic and 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:04.080 he said that in quotes, what you did to her 1:15:04.520 --> 1:15:06.360 is the same as if you had taken a knife 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:08.840 and drive it right through her heart. Instead you drove 1:15:08.880 --> 1:15:12.879 it right through her soul. So wow, a poetic judge. 1:15:13.720 --> 1:15:16.479 And then another added weird thing is that when the 1:15:16.560 --> 1:15:20.080 detectives left the room after interrogating him, he said out 1:15:20.080 --> 1:15:23.400 loud to himself, oh shit, you ain't never coming out, 1:15:23.640 --> 1:15:26.800 so he knew that. Yeah, And we also have to 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:29.160 remember that his memory is so unclear and he's so 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:32.320 careless and wild out there, like with all these committed 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:35.760 crimes that surely there's probably others that aren't reported, and 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:38.439 like so many pieces and parts of this puzzle that 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:43.439 will remain unknown, according to Major Mike Strahan, head of 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:46.960 Prince George's Police Criminal Investigation Division. So he's like, yeah, 1:15:46.960 --> 1:15:52.240 there's just so many probably victims, pieces evidence all over that. 1:15:52.600 --> 1:15:55.120 But he's in jail. He's never getting out. 1:15:56.520 --> 1:15:59.680 So yeah, I don't see somebody with like from what 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:01.760 you've told me, I don't see somebody like this ever 1:16:01.800 --> 1:16:04.000 being rehabilitated or ever. 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:07.439 You know. No, And he's like a liar, Like we 1:16:07.479 --> 1:16:11.479 have all these different types of people, but he is careless, wild. 1:16:11.560 --> 1:16:15.120 There's no rhyme or reason he's not I don't know 1:16:15.120 --> 1:16:18.520 if I would say not smart, but like leaving evidence places. 1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:21.679 Yeah, but and wild that he just didn't get caught 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:24.800 for so long, like really because he was doing things 1:16:24.880 --> 1:16:27.320 it seems like willy nilly, just like in a bad mood, 1:16:27.360 --> 1:16:29.839 going out and committing crimes, you know, and then walking 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:32.680 right into the car and driving away calmly from a 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:35.320 forest preserve after being the one that did it, And 1:16:35.360 --> 1:16:37.880 it's like, what is it because these women were black? 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:41.280 Like yeah, or was it really a super hard case 1:16:41.600 --> 1:16:42.720 and they couldn't figure it out? 1:16:42.720 --> 1:16:45.040 But it's like you knew he was a trucker. You 1:16:45.120 --> 1:16:47.680 went through hundreds of people and couldn't find him. I 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:51.439 don't know, Yeah, maybe he was good at it, maybe 1:16:51.479 --> 1:16:54.040 the careless like it's kind of it's like, it's not 1:16:54.200 --> 1:16:57.040 like this, but sometimes when you don't know fantasy football 1:16:57.040 --> 1:16:59.120 and you play, you just end up doing really well. 1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:01.840 Like I don't know, yeah, oh, I mean I like 1:17:01.920 --> 1:17:04.920 we'll do I'll like do pools like that based on 1:17:04.960 --> 1:17:07.320 the colors of uniforms and like I'll end up winning 1:17:07.360 --> 1:17:09.559 at the office pool and everyone's like fuck you, you know, 1:17:09.880 --> 1:17:11.240 because I'm just like, I don't know, I like the 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:11.920 light blue. 1:17:12.320 --> 1:17:14.080 Yeah, but if you want more, he talked to the 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:17.559 Washington Posts a lot, and I'm actually shocked we don't 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:22.760 know more about him because so many victims. Yeah, but 1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:25.639 and he had a name, you know, like usually when 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:31.080 someone has a nickname for killing, we get more attention. 1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:34.599 But I don't know, but I do think that as 1:17:34.760 --> 1:17:37.599 you did a good job taking two of these equally 1:17:37.960 --> 1:17:39.600 in a good way. I don't know. 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:42.280 Yeah, yeah, they took a lot from both to both cases. 1:17:42.280 --> 1:17:46.360 Thanks for looking into both of those cases. And we 1:17:46.439 --> 1:17:57.520 have a great guest. Everybody, don't go anywhere, all right, everybody. 1:17:57.680 --> 1:18:00.720 Today's guest is an actor who can be seen all 1:18:00.760 --> 1:18:03.560 across the Law and Order Extended universe. She's played a 1:18:03.680 --> 1:18:06.920 judge on Original Recipe, a dead body on Criminal Intent, 1:18:07.360 --> 1:18:10.960 the deceptive Christine Chang on SVU. And that's only a 1:18:10.960 --> 1:18:13.360 few of them, but you know her from today's episode 1:18:13.439 --> 1:18:17.759 and several others as DNA tech Susan Chang. Please enjoy 1:18:18.200 --> 1:18:20.080 our chat with Karen Senlee. 1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:21.519 We're so happy you're here. 1:18:22.120 --> 1:18:26.320 Hi, Kan, so happy I have you do? You do 1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:27.680 a lot of podcasts? 1:18:28.280 --> 1:18:30.759 No, this will be the first ever. 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:36.240 Wow, you're on our second podcast. You're our second podcast, virgin. 1:18:36.320 --> 1:18:39.360 I hope that you enjoy this experience. It should be 1:18:39.400 --> 1:18:44.679 pretty painless. So did you know, like so you would 1:18:44.840 --> 1:18:46.479 you were like a Law and Order staple. 1:18:46.680 --> 1:18:49.360 You've been in all Like you've been in four of 1:18:49.400 --> 1:18:53.080 the franchises. You've been like you were a couple parts 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:56.000 on SVU and then you came back to start the 1:18:56.080 --> 1:18:59.800 role as Susan Chung with this episode Double Strands, and 1:19:00.200 --> 1:19:01.960 you know, like going into this one where you were 1:19:01.960 --> 1:19:06.120 playing Susan Chung the DNA expert, that you were going 1:19:06.160 --> 1:19:08.479 to be recurring or did they just keep bringing you back. 1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:09.080 Yeah. 1:19:09.160 --> 1:19:13.040 You never know what they're gonna do. So it's always 1:19:13.080 --> 1:19:16.080 a nice surprise when they say are you available on 1:19:16.200 --> 1:19:18.400 such and such a date range, you know, and you 1:19:18.439 --> 1:19:23.559 go yes, absolutely, and then you try to clear everything 1:19:23.560 --> 1:19:26.519 out of the way and you hope that actually happens. Sure. 1:19:27.120 --> 1:19:30.320 Yeah, I really love that character. She's kind of funny 1:19:30.479 --> 1:19:35.519 and dry, and she brings like some lightness to the crimes. 1:19:35.680 --> 1:19:38.880 You know, it's science. It's sadness that she does make 1:19:39.000 --> 1:19:39.439 us laugh. 1:19:40.400 --> 1:19:44.360 Okay, Yeah, I do love when she's just like, really, 1:19:44.720 --> 1:19:48.679 this is a conspiracy, okay, like it really puts uh, 1:19:48.880 --> 1:19:51.000 really puts old Danny Pino in his place. 1:19:51.600 --> 1:19:54.760 No, sweet, sweet guy, sweet guy? 1:19:55.320 --> 1:19:55.920 Is he sweet? 1:19:56.640 --> 1:19:59.439 Yeah? Yeah? There? You know, all these folks are nice, 1:19:59.720 --> 1:20:01.920 you know, they really are, and it's it's just sort 1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:03.920 of like they're there to do a job that also 1:20:04.080 --> 1:20:08.840 just relax. You know. Kelly Kiddish even has her dog there. Yeah, 1:20:09.000 --> 1:20:11.800 you know, and you know, she's got a guitar when 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:15.120 she's not doing anything and she just hangs out. So 1:20:15.520 --> 1:20:19.360 you know, they make it their home, you know, in 1:20:19.400 --> 1:20:22.720 the in the holding areas. So because she put in 1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:24.439 long hours and you don't know if you're going to 1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:25.679 see your pooch in a while. 1:20:25.880 --> 1:20:30.880 Yeah, who did you get most excited to see on set? 1:20:31.880 --> 1:20:36.240 Well, Marishka is both exciting and intimidating at the same time. 1:20:36.920 --> 1:20:40.920 I can imagine Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because she just 1:20:41.280 --> 1:20:42.960 is such a pro y. 1:20:43.200 --> 1:20:45.960 You know, it's in her bones, in her blood, and 1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:50.280 just her presence. Everybody's got to bring up their a game, 1:20:50.840 --> 1:20:56.240 you know. And she's also really generous too. She's very 1:20:56.280 --> 1:20:59.960 open and really like she's going to give you everything 1:21:00.120 --> 1:21:04.320 she's got and wants the same from you. So it 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:07.320 really does bring out the best in everybody who's working 1:21:07.360 --> 1:21:11.200 around her. Honestly. Yeah, it really sets the tone of 1:21:11.320 --> 1:21:12.160 the of the show. 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:15.360 Yeah, for sure, we wanted to talk I mean, we 1:21:15.439 --> 1:21:18.080 obviously want to talk about this episode double strands, but 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:20.000 we really want to talk about like your whole all 1:21:20.080 --> 1:21:23.559 your roles on the show, and we were we couldn't 1:21:23.600 --> 1:21:27.080 believe we've already covered this episode Counselor's Chinatown. But you 1:21:27.120 --> 1:21:32.240 played this iconic villain, Christine Cheng in Counselor's Chinatown, and 1:21:32.280 --> 1:21:34.760 you've got to have like a you got to have 1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:38.599 like sort of a big monologue and like a big 1:21:38.640 --> 1:21:42.200 moment going against Marishka, like an interrogation. So how we 1:21:42.320 --> 1:21:44.439 just wanted to ask about that, like what was that out? 1:21:44.600 --> 1:21:45.960 Like it was? 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:50.320 It was really interesting because I'll let you know, Warren 1:21:50.439 --> 1:21:55.280 Light all right, he wrote a play called No Foreigners 1:21:55.280 --> 1:21:59.720 Beyond This Point, and it kind of touched on some 1:21:59.760 --> 1:22:03.480 of the issues that actually is in the play. In 1:22:02.880 --> 1:22:08.519 her monologue about being in China. He went back to 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:13.840 China to teach English before it really was open, and 1:22:13.920 --> 1:22:17.360 so some of the experience of being in a communist world. 1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:20.360 He brought into that script a little bit sort of 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:24.320 like an acknowledgement of the kind of persecution people were 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:27.680 going through. So if there's a little hint of that 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:30.280 in there, you know, when she talks about how she 1:22:30.320 --> 1:22:33.960 had to come what what you know, kind of obstacles 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:37.000 she had to overcome to get here and why she left. 1:22:37.120 --> 1:22:42.479 You know, so because it's of course a repressive country 1:22:43.280 --> 1:22:46.759 and there's a lot of persecution of teachers in those days, 1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:50.679 so there's just that little hint. But then of course 1:22:50.720 --> 1:22:55.679 she doesn't do exactly the right thing, so it really 1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:59.640 it was bag you know, that's a tribute to that experience. 1:22:59.760 --> 1:23:04.240 I think think in that character that you know, people 1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:09.360 from China experiencing that kind of world and then coming 1:23:09.400 --> 1:23:11.280 to the States. Yeah. 1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:11.599 Yeah. 1:23:11.640 --> 1:23:15.280 He was there for about a little over a year, 1:23:15.920 --> 1:23:19.519 and it was around the time that the Gang of 1:23:19.640 --> 1:23:24.000 Four was being arrest They had been arrested, so it's 1:23:24.200 --> 1:23:27.920 just after the Cultural Revolution and they were brought up 1:23:27.920 --> 1:23:36.200 on charges. Chenka Amatstong's wife was on trial. Wow, big 1:23:36.240 --> 1:23:39.000 deal in those days, and everything was censored. Of course 1:23:39.120 --> 1:23:42.400 you had one television. You had the trial on TV, 1:23:43.040 --> 1:23:45.840 and everybody was, you know, watching what was going to happen. 1:23:46.680 --> 1:23:49.400 Yeah, and she is such a dynamic character because she 1:23:49.439 --> 1:23:52.040 has that experience in that struggle. But then also it's like, 1:23:52.080 --> 1:23:54.360 but now you're keeping other people down, you know, like 1:23:54.520 --> 1:23:56.360 now you're exploiting people. 1:23:56.560 --> 1:24:02.599 Well it was the accountant, the accountant, right, my fault. 1:24:03.200 --> 1:24:07.040 But also just like it the it's like a twisted 1:24:07.120 --> 1:24:09.920 character too, because she is doing this monologue knowing she's 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:13.080 going to get off She's like, I'll make you think it. 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:15.760 I mean, it's really masterful. It's really fun. And you 1:24:15.840 --> 1:24:18.519 got to be arrested, like at a big event, and 1:24:18.560 --> 1:24:20.640 that's kind of a bingo card moment we like to 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:24.040 call when we're at like a fancy, fancy event and 1:24:24.080 --> 1:24:26.280 the cops come in to get you. That was fun. 1:24:26.880 --> 1:24:30.439 Yeah. Yeah. And oh, by the way, the man who 1:24:30.479 --> 1:24:33.719 plays my husband in that as his name is Henry Yuck. 1:24:34.280 --> 1:24:37.840 He was also in the play oh book that Warren 1:24:38.479 --> 1:24:41.080 Light wrote. Yeah. Oh, so he was sort of like 1:24:41.680 --> 1:24:44.280 bringing back some of the crew that he knows from 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:49.040 theater because you know, he's very you know, I want 1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:51.880 to say faithful, committed to the theater community here in 1:24:51.920 --> 1:24:54.840 New York. I mean he wrote plays side Man. 1:24:55.520 --> 1:24:58.720 Yeah no, And I remember in Pandemic there was this 1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:00.720 whole interview with him where he said, we're going to 1:25:00.760 --> 1:25:03.439 try to give as many actor theater actors out of 1:25:03.439 --> 1:25:04.600 work theater actors. 1:25:04.400 --> 1:25:06.960 Jobs on SVU as we can. So I know that's 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:08.080 like a big Really. 1:25:08.040 --> 1:25:10.479 We're in the theater community are very grateful for him. 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:11.200 Yeah. 1:25:11.600 --> 1:25:15.000 Yeah, no. I mean Lisa and I love to talk 1:25:15.000 --> 1:25:16.679 about how when we go to theater in New York. 1:25:16.720 --> 1:25:19.320 We love looking at everybody's bios, like seeing who's been 1:25:19.360 --> 1:25:23.639 on SVU, like, you know, so a big link between 1:25:23.680 --> 1:25:24.479 those two worlds. 1:25:25.400 --> 1:25:27.360 Did you start in the theater? Do you do theater? 1:25:28.200 --> 1:25:31.760 I did? I did. I started a small theater group. 1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:35.439 I actually took an acting class. I moved from modern 1:25:35.560 --> 1:25:40.160 dance to theater because I wanted to speak, yeah, and 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:44.519 try on different shoes because I actually was really shy 1:25:44.640 --> 1:25:48.040 when I was young, very very shy, and so it 1:25:48.160 --> 1:25:50.640 kind of had a way of helping me kind of 1:25:50.640 --> 1:25:52.600 come out of myself, you know, and just sort of 1:25:52.640 --> 1:25:55.559 explore the world. So add a little you know, theater 1:25:55.680 --> 1:26:00.479 group where we built the sets, painted stage, managed lighting 1:26:00.680 --> 1:26:01.479 the whole nine yards. 1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:02.080 That was my. 1:26:03.560 --> 1:26:08.600 Apprenticeship before I ended up going into more film, television 1:26:08.880 --> 1:26:11.320 and that sort of thing. Yeah, but I still go 1:26:11.400 --> 1:26:14.160 back to theater whenever, you know, it comes up and 1:26:15.200 --> 1:26:17.200 there's there might be a play. I'll be coming up 1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:18.280 in the in January. 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:22.800 So okay, awesome, Oh but you can't you can't say yet. 1:26:22.800 --> 1:26:25.440 Well, you know, I haven't been officially offered. 1:26:25.120 --> 1:26:29.000 The job, Okay, so I'll just like I'll just say out. 1:26:30.240 --> 1:26:33.599 You know, there are several theater companies in New York 1:26:33.640 --> 1:26:38.799 that have really nurtured Asian American actors. Pan Asian Repertory 1:26:38.880 --> 1:26:42.800 Theater is one. They're the probably the oldest My Theater 1:26:42.960 --> 1:26:47.720 Company and NATCO National Asian American Theater Company. So if 1:26:47.720 --> 1:26:51.439 you are looking for some Asian talent, those are the 1:26:51.479 --> 1:26:55.439 places to go. They are doing wonderful classical works and 1:26:55.560 --> 1:26:59.000 new works, and that is where the incubator is. And 1:26:59.000 --> 1:27:03.040 they also MAYE also has a writers group, so many 1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:06.639 of those writers are now having their works produced not 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:11.400 only in New York but regionally, which is telling me 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:18.160 America is accepting and open to Asian American stories all 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:23.320 over and not just New York Lower East Side. 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:26.439 That's awesome. Yeah, thank you for shouting out those groups. 1:27:26.520 --> 1:27:29.200 I'm sure because our listeners will. We have a lot 1:27:29.200 --> 1:27:32.240 of leaders see that out. Yeah, totally. 1:27:32.320 --> 1:27:35.400 Well, you know, I'll plug once upon a Korea time 1:27:35.520 --> 1:27:38.800 right now. Okay, that's playing at La Mama. 1:27:38.920 --> 1:27:39.760 Oh amazing. 1:27:40.120 --> 1:27:44.679 Yeah, and that's MAYI. So check them out because you're 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:47.040 going to find some really fine actors out there, a 1:27:47.080 --> 1:27:49.719 lot of good talent. Yeah, And I'm self thrilled because 1:27:49.760 --> 1:27:52.720 this is you know, you're talking about a couple of generations, 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:57.880 a generation of actors where you know, in the i'd 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:02.719 say sixties and seventies, Asian actors couldn't get an agent 1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:07.160 because there wasn't enough work. They're just like they didn't 1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:09.200 want to represent you because they couldn't get you work. 1:28:10.000 --> 1:28:12.599 But that has changed over the last i'd say ten 1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:15.280 fifteen fifteen years. Yeah. 1:28:15.360 --> 1:28:18.599 Yeah, we talked to B. D. Wong and he was saying, how, 1:28:19.479 --> 1:28:23.360 you know, being in productions that are all Asian or so, 1:28:23.600 --> 1:28:26.519 it's so incredible, but then it also makes them angry 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:29.000 because it's like, why can't this be happening all the time? 1:28:29.520 --> 1:28:31.599 And so he talked about how it's this double edge 1:28:31.760 --> 1:28:34.920 like good and frustrating thing. 1:28:35.600 --> 1:28:38.599 We talked about it with him. But you know, it's 1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:42.479 changing slowly but surely, and I think it's, you know, 1:28:42.520 --> 1:28:44.440 a nice kind of evolution. 1:28:44.960 --> 1:28:46.800 Well, I want to know, you've been a Judge and 1:28:46.920 --> 1:28:51.760 Emmy all these different kind of iconic parts. What would 1:28:51.800 --> 1:28:53.479 you like to come back to SVU or Law and 1:28:53.560 --> 1:28:55.719 Order as if you got to come back again? 1:28:56.560 --> 1:29:00.040 Oh boy, you know part. 1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:04.240 Of that, Well, it's always fun to play the sort 1:29:04.280 --> 1:29:07.880 of the bad bad guy, you know, And uh, but 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:10.080 I don't mind having a steady job, even if it 1:29:10.120 --> 1:29:16.519 is just the you know, but they're all all challenging, 1:29:16.560 --> 1:29:18.160 and you know, I also was a dead body. 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.080 No, my gosh, no, what episode? 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:24.400 That was my very first Law and Order. 1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:27.240 Original criminal criminal. 1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:33.800 Yeah. It was called shin Wazari and I am the 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:37.679 person who is murdered and they have to solve my murder. 1:29:37.960 --> 1:29:41.720 Where where were you shot this? 1:29:41.880 --> 1:29:46.479 We shot this in Chinatown on a very hot day. Uh, 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:50.880 lots of people around. And I'm walking along the street 1:29:50.920 --> 1:29:54.120 with my child and we're shopping and I suddenly see 1:29:54.520 --> 1:29:58.440 a man who I recognize as being sort of a murderer. 1:29:59.280 --> 1:30:02.760 I want to say, yeah, a murderer during Tiana men 1:30:03.640 --> 1:30:07.200 that period of time. And so I start to run 1:30:07.280 --> 1:30:10.759 towards him, and I didn't trying to get somebody's attention 1:30:10.920 --> 1:30:13.120 to stop him because he was sort of, you know, 1:30:13.600 --> 1:30:17.200 a bad guy, and and I lose him in the crowd, 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:22.160 so I give up. I start walking back and I 1:30:22.240 --> 1:30:25.080 get my child and I try to call my husband, 1:30:25.160 --> 1:30:27.920 and two seconds later, I get shot in the back. 1:30:28.200 --> 1:30:33.040 Oh no, oh my god. 1:30:33.200 --> 1:30:37.759 So I'm lying on the ground and Vincent Dianafrio is like, Okay, 1:30:37.920 --> 1:30:42.720 what's happening here, you know, but they they try and 1:30:42.760 --> 1:30:46.000 solve my murder out of that. That first That was 1:30:46.040 --> 1:30:48.439 my very first episode, that. 1:30:49.160 --> 1:30:52.200 Episode wildly okay. I'm usually I see you all day, 1:30:52.520 --> 1:30:54.120 but I've seen that one. 1:30:54.000 --> 1:30:57.080 So you okay. So but there's a whole scene where 1:30:57.080 --> 1:30:59.680 they're looking over your dead body, like you're lying there dead, 1:30:59.680 --> 1:31:01.479 because we haven't talked to anybody who's played a dead 1:31:01.520 --> 1:31:04.320 body quite yet, and I would. I just very I've 1:31:04.320 --> 1:31:06.160 always thought I was a kid been interested in like 1:31:06.200 --> 1:31:08.559 the breathing, Like do you when they yell action, do 1:31:08.600 --> 1:31:10.280 you just like hold your breath for as long as 1:31:10.280 --> 1:31:12.320 you can or breathe shallow or what you? 1:31:12.479 --> 1:31:12.919 Okay? 1:31:13.000 --> 1:31:16.559 Yeah, yeah, I was face down, that's number one, okay. 1:31:16.600 --> 1:31:19.960 And they put a cloth to protect me because it's 1:31:20.040 --> 1:31:24.719 kind of dirty on city streets and when and also, 1:31:24.880 --> 1:31:26.960 you know, the interesting thing is I had never been 1:31:27.000 --> 1:31:30.879 shot before, so they had a squib on my person 1:31:31.520 --> 1:31:36.200 so that the explosion would burst out. Oh okay, So 1:31:36.360 --> 1:31:38.640 it's all timing and everything. So they shoot me, and 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:41.680 of course I fall face down and that's where my 1:31:41.760 --> 1:31:44.720 body is. They're discovering me. So when they do do 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:49.479 a little bit of a pan it's it's really brief. Yeah, 1:31:49.560 --> 1:31:52.280 you're basically trying to hold as still as possible, but 1:31:52.320 --> 1:31:56.160 because I am face down, it's a little easier to breathe. Yeah, 1:31:56.320 --> 1:32:00.320 you know sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was 1:32:00.360 --> 1:32:03.280 really interesting. I've never had that attached to me in 1:32:03.439 --> 1:32:05.280 my back and. 1:32:05.200 --> 1:32:07.519 So explain what that is because I think I know, 1:32:07.600 --> 1:32:09.640 but I just we explain like what that is, Like 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:12.720 it's a little like vest or something that you wear 1:32:12.800 --> 1:32:13.559 under your clothes. 1:32:14.320 --> 1:32:18.280 I think it was like some kind of patch okay 1:32:18.439 --> 1:32:23.080 that bursts on a signal so that while you're not 1:32:23.240 --> 1:32:27.720 actually being shot with a propellant, sure there's an explosion 1:32:27.960 --> 1:32:30.599 that will give you the impression that you've a person 1:32:30.640 --> 1:32:31.280 has been shot. 1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:33.799 And the squib is like on a remote or something 1:32:33.880 --> 1:32:36.439 so that they press it and it goes, Oh, how 1:32:36.479 --> 1:32:37.559 many takes did you get? 1:32:38.640 --> 1:32:40.880 I think we did just one one and done well, 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:45.719 so we hear that was it? You know. Yeah, these 1:32:45.760 --> 1:32:49.799 guys are so such a pro that everything's really quick. 1:32:50.360 --> 1:32:53.360 You're lucky if you get three shots through, you know, 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:58.559 three takes in a scene. Yeah, it's it's really quick, 1:32:59.120 --> 1:33:01.639 and that everybody's got to be on their game and 1:33:01.880 --> 1:33:05.599 really paying attention to what's going on. So, you know, 1:33:05.680 --> 1:33:11.280 I I often tell younger actors like, just be aware, 1:33:11.720 --> 1:33:15.599 be very on your mark, and pay attention watch what's 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:17.760 being happen. You know. I sort of like try to 1:33:17.880 --> 1:33:20.160 mentor people and go, this is what it's going to be, 1:33:20.400 --> 1:33:23.160 you know, that's the way TV is. Stage is going 1:33:23.240 --> 1:33:25.439 to be really different because you get to play around 1:33:25.960 --> 1:33:29.599 and move around. But camera work is very specific and 1:33:29.640 --> 1:33:32.400 you really have to kind of learn how to play 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:36.519 to a camera what's going on around you. And it's 1:33:36.560 --> 1:33:41.320 more challenging when you're outdoors than in a set, and 1:33:41.400 --> 1:33:43.800 even within a set there are always you know, other 1:33:43.960 --> 1:33:48.080 challenges as well. So there's limitations of space, space kinds 1:33:48.080 --> 1:33:51.200 of things. But you have a lot of distractions on 1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:54.639 in the in the city noise for one, a lot 1:33:54.640 --> 1:33:58.880 of moving parts, people going by. When I tell you, 1:33:58.960 --> 1:34:01.639 China Town is a very tough place to shoot because 1:34:02.760 --> 1:34:06.200 older Chinese people will not take anybody telling him you 1:34:06.280 --> 1:34:09.800 can't go here because we're shooting. They just will not 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:13.559 listen to you. They'll just walk on through and your 1:34:13.560 --> 1:34:17.920 SHOT's going to be like okay, hold yeah. So I 1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:20.040 feel sorry for the pas that have to kind of 1:34:20.040 --> 1:34:21.000 control the crowds. 1:34:22.120 --> 1:34:25.599 Have you ever had a standout moment with the public 1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:28.120 interfering or doing anything wild? 1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:34.639 No? No, But but I will say one very funny story. 1:34:34.680 --> 1:34:36.519 This is like way back in the days when I 1:34:36.560 --> 1:34:39.960 was starting out and I was doing background work. I 1:34:40.000 --> 1:34:44.720 did two long fu oh okay, and the scene was 1:34:44.960 --> 1:34:48.120 We're at a nightclub and the guys are all gathering. 1:34:48.160 --> 1:34:53.160 This is including Robin Williams. Okay. But and I forget 1:34:53.160 --> 1:34:57.639 the name of the guy now who's deceased anyway, Patrick Swayzey, 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:02.599 Patrick Swayzey. So we're on a little break and we're 1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:06.320 exiting the building and I'm walking down this set of 1:35:06.360 --> 1:35:13.200 stairs and the crowd outside has gathered and they're just worring, roaring, 1:35:13.280 --> 1:35:17.000 and I'm like, oh, and I didn't realize he was 1:35:17.080 --> 1:35:21.640 behind me and they were roaring for him, and I'm like, 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:24.960 what's going on? So, if you want to say, the 1:35:25.000 --> 1:35:27.840 reaction was really I kind of got some of his. 1:35:29.400 --> 1:35:34.840 You got to feel that swayze blow for a minute. Well, 1:35:35.120 --> 1:35:38.600 so you you described like how the SVU set you know, 1:35:38.680 --> 1:35:40.680 she sets the tone, and a lot of people have 1:35:40.760 --> 1:35:43.200 told us that, Like, but since you've been on like 1:35:43.400 --> 1:35:46.719 now OC and criminal intent and original do you see 1:35:46.760 --> 1:35:48.960 like a difference between the sets when you go to 1:35:48.960 --> 1:35:50.759 do and I know it's been like different time periods 1:35:50.760 --> 1:35:53.200 and things change, but like, do you see a difference 1:35:53.200 --> 1:35:56.720 when you like bop from show to show you know what? 1:35:56.840 --> 1:36:01.679 Not really because the family is very you know, they 1:36:01.760 --> 1:36:05.080 trade a lot of people, so they know each other 1:36:05.280 --> 1:36:09.280 really well, you know, and it's all familial. They know 1:36:09.360 --> 1:36:12.160 they're where, what they have to do, what not to do, 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:18.720 and it's it's quite an operation. I I it's incredible, 1:36:18.920 --> 1:36:23.000 you know. I don't know if anybody's ever seen the 1:36:23.000 --> 1:36:23.599 call sheet. 1:36:24.400 --> 1:36:25.600 Let us see the cat. 1:36:26.280 --> 1:36:32.559 This is a call sheet from that day. I'm such 1:36:32.560 --> 1:36:38.080 a memento person. So this is the call sheet. Wow, okay, 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:40.840 And this is how many people are involved. 1:36:41.000 --> 1:36:45.320 I know, it's like wild and our listeners can't see 1:36:45.320 --> 1:36:49.920 this obviously, but it is like there's people, I mean people, yeah, yeah, 1:36:50.040 --> 1:36:50.720 you know, And. 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:53.720 And it keeps the city alive. This is like one 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:56.639 of the major you know, income streams for the city. 1:36:57.400 --> 1:37:00.719 And when when COVID hit, it was like, oh my god, 1:37:00.800 --> 1:37:03.559 we're talking about an entire industry that's going to be 1:37:03.680 --> 1:37:07.360 like so mess up, you know. So yeah, this is 1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:09.160 one day, one day. 1:37:09.280 --> 1:37:09.479 Yeah. 1:37:09.880 --> 1:37:12.439 Are there other things you have stolen from the set 1:37:12.800 --> 1:37:13.439 from a mento? 1:37:16.360 --> 1:37:17.000 Huge theft? 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:20.599 No, no, no, I'm a mental person too, so I'm wondering. 1:37:20.960 --> 1:37:23.000 I always like to grab a sign or something. 1:37:25.040 --> 1:37:30.400 No, but I did get the suit from Chinatown. It's 1:37:31.120 --> 1:37:35.000 Chinatown counselor. I was doing that suit that I wore. Yeah, 1:37:35.040 --> 1:37:38.320 and it's a really beautiful suit, the sort of plumish 1:37:38.520 --> 1:37:42.240 kind of Yeah. Yeah, it's really lovely. 1:37:42.320 --> 1:37:43.000 Have you worn it? 1:37:43.520 --> 1:37:48.760 Oh? Yes, Oh, I've wanted for other auditions when they're 1:37:48.800 --> 1:37:54.240 looking for someone high powered. Yeah, it totally fits the bill. Yeah. 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:56.719 We have a classic question we actually have been asked 1:37:56.720 --> 1:38:01.679 for a while. What are your go to craft serve snacks? Oh? 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:07.479 Yeah, oh gosh, it's always gonna be Cheetos. 1:38:08.000 --> 1:38:11.760 Yes, even with the dust. Yeah, it's bold. I like 1:38:11.800 --> 1:38:13.920 that Cheetos. 1:38:14.000 --> 1:38:18.400 And when they had Crafty in the morning, my go 1:38:18.600 --> 1:38:23.280 to breakfast would be a grilled cheese with tomato and bacon. 1:38:23.880 --> 1:38:26.040 Oh yum. 1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:29.360 That was like that'll hold me for quite a while. 1:38:29.720 --> 1:38:32.519 But now now we don't know that kind of it's 1:38:32.520 --> 1:38:36.160 all boxed whatever number one, two, three or four. You know, 1:38:36.240 --> 1:38:38.800 it's sort of sort of sad that way. It's like, 1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:40.679 oh gosh, I kind of missed those days. 1:38:40.720 --> 1:38:43.880 Yeah, I wonder if it's going to go back now 1:38:43.920 --> 1:38:46.000 that things are getting a little bit more. 1:38:45.800 --> 1:38:48.560 Calm COVID wise, Who knows. 1:38:48.479 --> 1:38:53.639 I'm sure, yeah, you know, money, Yeah, I think if 1:38:53.680 --> 1:38:57.640 that's gonna happen, it's not gonna be for a while, honestly, 1:38:58.080 --> 1:39:01.519 you know. And there they've sort of gotten used to 1:39:01.560 --> 1:39:04.040 now the setup of how to make things a little 1:39:04.040 --> 1:39:07.400 bit more efficient in terms of all that. So it'll 1:39:07.479 --> 1:39:09.639 be a while if that does ever come. 1:39:09.439 --> 1:39:10.160 Back, you know. 1:39:10.400 --> 1:39:14.080 Yeah, we all just adapting. 1:39:14.600 --> 1:39:14.960 That's it. 1:39:15.840 --> 1:39:16.920 Yeah. 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:20.360 So aside from the play, that is maybe any other 1:39:20.560 --> 1:39:23.760 any other projects coming up that you are working on or. 1:39:25.040 --> 1:39:29.880 Well, there's a group called Hedge Pig Ensemble and they're 1:39:29.880 --> 1:39:35.680 in Brooklyn and they are trying to bring attention to 1:39:35.800 --> 1:39:40.920 people to plays that are rarely done, and they have 1:39:41.040 --> 1:39:44.759 been doing readings of plays that are in the cannon. 1:39:45.600 --> 1:39:50.519 And so I just shot a short scene from a 1:39:50.560 --> 1:39:54.040 play called and the Soul Shower Dance, and it takes 1:39:54.080 --> 1:39:57.439 place in the nineteen thirties and it's an immigrant family, 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:03.360 Japanese immigrant family Japan working in the farm in California. 1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:06.320 So it has just a little bit a slice of 1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:08.960 history in it, and it was a play that Pan 1:40:09.040 --> 1:40:12.160 Asian rep had actually done years ago. But it's one 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:16.439 of those plays that gives an insight into what it 1:40:16.560 --> 1:40:21.800 was like for immigrants of that time. So that's one 1:40:21.840 --> 1:40:23.519 little thing that that I just shot. 1:40:23.720 --> 1:40:24.240 Amazing. 1:40:24.560 --> 1:40:27.599 There's a Law and Order Organized crime where Susan Chung 1:40:27.760 --> 1:40:31.400 is Actually it makes another appearance. I know that'll be 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:35.960 coming up sometime in September. It's part of the there. 1:40:35.880 --> 1:40:38.360 The premiere is it the three crossover event? 1:40:38.880 --> 1:40:40.000 There's a crew that's. 1:40:41.560 --> 1:40:42.160 The premiere. 1:40:42.360 --> 1:40:45.280 Okay, how everybody keep their eyes peeled for you on 1:40:45.320 --> 1:40:46.800 the premiere episode? 1:40:47.760 --> 1:40:50.320 And you know, the heartbreaking thing is we were shooting 1:40:50.479 --> 1:40:54.439 the first day back from their break, Okay, that's when 1:40:54.439 --> 1:40:57.200 we shot it. And the next day was that the 1:40:57.280 --> 1:40:58.479 day that guy got shot? 1:40:58.560 --> 1:41:00.000 Oh yeah. 1:41:00.320 --> 1:41:03.280 I was like, oh my god. You know, I couldn't 1:41:03.320 --> 1:41:07.400 imagine that happening on the day that we were starting, 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:11.200 you know, and it actually was the day after. So 1:41:11.600 --> 1:41:14.000 it's a little a little scary of what we're going 1:41:14.040 --> 1:41:18.760 through in terms of guns in the city. Yes, no, yeah, 1:41:19.960 --> 1:41:23.240 but anyway, so that's going to be the Crossover. 1:41:23.760 --> 1:41:24.400 That's all right. 1:41:25.400 --> 1:41:28.599 Yeah, we're gonna keep it Eye the Crossover. Susan Chung 1:41:28.800 --> 1:41:33.840 is back, okay, but you're in the OC part of 1:41:33.880 --> 1:41:37.320 the crossover or the s V part of it, the 1:41:37.400 --> 1:41:38.920 OC the OC okay. 1:41:39.120 --> 1:41:42.120 Yeah. So now I've I guess I've done all of 1:41:42.120 --> 1:41:44.520 them in some to some degree. 1:41:45.040 --> 1:41:45.439 Yeah. 1:41:45.920 --> 1:41:49.280 Yeah, and you know what, the Law and Order original 1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:51.200 was back. I'm sure they're gonna be knocking on your 1:41:51.240 --> 1:41:54.559 door for that again. Like you're just you're just like 1:41:54.720 --> 1:42:00.759 up on the wall of the casting people's office. I think, Well, Lisa, 1:42:00.760 --> 1:42:02.120 do you have any more questions? I feel like this 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:04.960 was awesome. I mean, thank you so much, Thank you 1:42:05.040 --> 1:42:06.920 so much for taking the time to talk to us. 1:42:07.240 --> 1:42:09.040 Oh, it was great. It was a lot of fun. 1:42:09.080 --> 1:42:10.559 Thank you so much for asking. 1:42:11.280 --> 1:42:18.559 Yeah, I hope your first podcast was okay, beautie, Yeah, 1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:24.479 she was so sweet. Given work plugging all yeah, all 1:42:24.479 --> 1:42:27.920 that Asian American stuff. Guys, goes check that out if 1:42:27.920 --> 1:42:29.800 you're in New York. She has got the hook up. 1:42:32.439 --> 1:42:35.320 What do we think double Strands a classic? I don't 1:42:35.360 --> 1:42:37.080 really know that. There's a whole lot of post mortem 1:42:37.160 --> 1:42:39.599 we can do, Like, hey, if you're a twin twins 1:42:39.640 --> 1:42:42.680 should be illegal. Yeah, if you're an identical twin, just 1:42:42.720 --> 1:42:44.679 like keep an eye on what your fucking twin is doing. 1:42:44.720 --> 1:42:46.000 But I guess it's like if you don't know you 1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:47.880 have an identical twin, I don't know what you're supposed 1:42:47.880 --> 1:42:50.320 to do to stop them from framing you for murder. 1:42:50.880 --> 1:42:53.960 Also, I think we have learned something. Stop doing experiments 1:42:53.960 --> 1:42:57.839 on twin baby, Yeah, triplet's let them live, Okay, Yes. 1:42:57.800 --> 1:43:01.120 That shit's fucking like that I did so weird. 1:43:01.160 --> 1:43:04.839 Well, there's just ethics and experiments, and you need consent, 1:43:05.280 --> 1:43:10.040 Like there are standards and practices. You can't just like 1:43:10.479 --> 1:43:12.880 take a baby. And I guess the parents can have 1:43:12.960 --> 1:43:15.760 the legal right, but they shouldn't. They shouldn't be able 1:43:15.800 --> 1:43:18.599 to like put their childs to be experimented on. We 1:43:18.640 --> 1:43:21.280 did when I was a sociology major. We went to 1:43:21.360 --> 1:43:23.920 the schools and did experiments on the children without their 1:43:23.960 --> 1:43:28.600 knowledge through like activities, like we set up games and activities, 1:43:28.640 --> 1:43:31.720 but then we studied the way they behaved and then 1:43:32.000 --> 1:43:34.720 did a thing about it. But we pretended it was 1:43:34.840 --> 1:43:37.080 just fun in games, that we were just chilling. 1:43:37.560 --> 1:43:40.040 Well, the mom in this episode, I think ethics aren't 1:43:40.080 --> 1:43:41.960 really a huge part of her life, and I think 1:43:42.000 --> 1:43:44.080 she just wanted the sweet sweet cash from giving her 1:43:44.160 --> 1:43:48.800 kids away, so she made it happen. But yeah, like 1:43:49.200 --> 1:43:52.640 I don't know, in that movie Three Identical Strangers, they 1:43:52.680 --> 1:43:56.320 really kind of made it seem like, I don't know, 1:43:56.360 --> 1:43:58.679 there was like some anti Semitism. There was a little 1:43:58.680 --> 1:44:00.840 bit of anti Semitic stuff. Again it's the doctor who 1:44:00.880 --> 1:44:03.000 like separated those triplets though I felt like in that 1:44:03.080 --> 1:44:04.839 doc but there was like a weird vibe. 1:44:05.760 --> 1:44:08.720 Yeah, but everyone hates Jews, so it's like you could 1:44:08.760 --> 1:44:14.960 say that about everything truly. So, but I have met 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:18.400 certain women throughout my life. Throughout my life that like 1:44:18.880 --> 1:44:22.080 want to marry a Jew. Like I remember someone had 1:44:22.120 --> 1:44:23.760 a mazoza necklace and I was like, oh my god, 1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:25.160 I didn't realize you're Jewish. It's like I'm not, but 1:44:25.200 --> 1:44:28.040 I'm trying to marry a Jewish man. And so like 1:44:28.120 --> 1:44:30.920 there are there is a subsect of I think people 1:44:30.920 --> 1:44:32.559 that want to I didn't know that. 1:44:32.360 --> 1:44:34.639 That was like that was like a fetish for something. 1:44:34.680 --> 1:44:36.479 So Jewish women, well. 1:44:36.400 --> 1:44:38.439 I don't even know if it's like just straight up fetish, 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:41.080 but it's like I think they hear good things about 1:44:41.120 --> 1:44:44.720 Jewish men, like they're nice to their mothers. They can 1:44:44.920 --> 1:44:49.000 you know, like, yeah, they're calm. Yeah, they're not going 1:44:49.080 --> 1:44:52.400 to fight like that unless they're Hasidic. Then it's like truly, 1:44:52.680 --> 1:44:54.720 you know, put a woman in a wig and shut up. 1:44:54.880 --> 1:44:57.640 So it depends how jew you want to go. 1:44:58.000 --> 1:44:59.679 Yeah, that off with the Hasidic. 1:45:00.280 --> 1:45:02.880 I haven't read the article. I should read it. The 1:45:02.880 --> 1:45:07.800 Times did a huge piece about the Hasidic schools and 1:45:07.840 --> 1:45:10.639 how they're like failing the children but also using public 1:45:10.680 --> 1:45:15.160 grant money. Yeah, and then not teaching their children's skills. 1:45:15.200 --> 1:45:17.280 They would just like kids that don't know how to read. Yeah, 1:45:17.320 --> 1:45:18.960 it's like not good, not good. 1:45:19.880 --> 1:45:21.519 Yeah, I didn't read did you read it? 1:45:21.600 --> 1:45:22.880 I didn't read it, but I've been here. I've been 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:25.400 hearing people talk about it and like, you know, I've 1:45:25.400 --> 1:45:27.240 been seeing comments on it and everything. 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:29.640 I just wonder what the solution is. I mean, they 1:45:29.680 --> 1:45:34.320 shouldn't be able to take public money. I mean nothing 1:45:34.360 --> 1:45:36.839 religious should exactly exactly. 1:45:36.840 --> 1:45:38.360 That's what I was just going to say. I was like, 1:45:38.439 --> 1:45:39.280 I have a solution. 1:45:39.720 --> 1:45:41.800 If you don't want your kids to read, that's fine, 1:45:41.840 --> 1:45:44.400 but my money should not be going to you. Yeah, 1:45:44.439 --> 1:45:46.799 but your kids should be taken away from you. That's abuse? 1:45:46.920 --> 1:45:49.320 Is that not abuse? Like not giving your kids like 1:45:49.360 --> 1:45:51.720 a full chance at education? Is that not? 1:45:51.880 --> 1:45:51.960 Like? 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:54.320 How? Yeah? 1:45:54.360 --> 1:45:56.800 But I don't know, like like sometimes like some of 1:45:56.840 --> 1:46:00.160 the sects of that are so closed off that it's 1:46:00.200 --> 1:46:03.120 like they can claim their homeschooling like you know, I 1:46:03.120 --> 1:46:03.920 don't know what they're. 1:46:03.800 --> 1:46:04.840 That should be illegal too. 1:46:04.960 --> 1:46:07.320 But what we can do is just say no more, 1:46:07.320 --> 1:46:09.400 you don't get any more funds from the state, you know. 1:46:10.320 --> 1:46:14.840 Yeah, it's just I mean, it's honestly, I just want 1:46:14.840 --> 1:46:18.400 to be so dumb. I just want to be so dumb, 1:46:18.680 --> 1:46:21.400 like the weight of the world. Just sometimes it's like 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:23.559 it's just fucked. 1:46:23.920 --> 1:46:24.120 Yeah. 1:46:24.280 --> 1:46:26.640 It's like people are mad at the student loans or 1:46:26.680 --> 1:46:29.519 like anything or like children getting free lunch. But then 1:46:29.560 --> 1:46:33.240 we're like the Catholic Church got pp pp whatever loans. 1:46:33.280 --> 1:46:35.320 I have to pay back my small business loan I 1:46:35.360 --> 1:46:37.720 didn't get. I didn't qualify for the PPE. I had 1:46:37.720 --> 1:46:39.960 a SBA, So I owe all my money back that 1:46:40.000 --> 1:46:43.880 I got from COVID. Oh really, yeah, for my small business. 1:46:44.320 --> 1:46:46.080 But you can do it on a payment plan or something. 1:46:46.120 --> 1:46:47.719 It's not going to like oh yeah. 1:46:47.600 --> 1:46:50.000 The interest. It's not predatory. It's not like student loans, 1:46:50.040 --> 1:46:52.559 Like the interest is not predatory at all, and I 1:46:52.560 --> 1:46:54.439 think I'll be able to pay it off pretty quickly, 1:46:54.520 --> 1:46:58.120 but like it's still it's just not It's just like 1:46:58.600 --> 1:47:01.599 the things that as a call sure that is like 1:47:02.000 --> 1:47:04.320 people have issues with, or what the media is like 1:47:04.400 --> 1:47:06.760 telling you to have issues with, are just so non 1:47:06.760 --> 1:47:11.080 consequential to Like I don't know, the Catholic Church getting millions, 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:13.879 millions of dollars. It's like, fucked, it's crazy. 1:47:14.479 --> 1:47:16.800 I feel like there should not be any money given 1:47:16.800 --> 1:47:18.840 to any religion and for anything. 1:47:18.960 --> 1:47:22.360 Absolutely not, Like you choose to be religious, you get 1:47:22.400 --> 1:47:23.320 no government money. 1:47:23.880 --> 1:47:26.719 They already get tax breaks, Like that should be enough. 1:47:27.040 --> 1:47:30.320 That should be the gift, you know, you get to 1:47:30.360 --> 1:47:33.680 follow the reptions. Yeah, and they're using the money for 1:47:33.800 --> 1:47:38.200 just court cases. I don't know. It's just like weird 1:47:38.240 --> 1:47:40.559 what we decide to be mad at or not. And 1:47:40.560 --> 1:47:42.599 that's what I mean, Like I want to be happy, 1:47:42.640 --> 1:47:45.760 go lucky, chill, enjoy my life, grateful, and then like 1:47:45.880 --> 1:47:48.400 one thing will be said and then I just spiral 1:47:48.479 --> 1:47:50.800 into like yeah, fuck, what do you do? What do 1:47:50.800 --> 1:47:51.000 you do? 1:47:51.080 --> 1:47:52.679 Like it would be so easy, Yeah, if you were 1:47:52.720 --> 1:47:56.080 just like a super stupid person that just didn't process 1:47:56.120 --> 1:47:57.280 anything going on around you. 1:47:58.360 --> 1:48:00.479 Yeah, I would love that. I would love to just 1:48:00.520 --> 1:48:04.519 be like being on Summer House Like that seems great. 1:48:06.720 --> 1:48:08.920 I love to just go to things they don't even 1:48:08.960 --> 1:48:13.639 care about recycling on Summerhouse. Who cares they do whatever? Wait, 1:48:13.680 --> 1:48:15.080 why did you bring up recycling? 1:48:15.360 --> 1:48:18.400 Oh, just like you know, the planet ending and like, 1:48:18.520 --> 1:48:20.599 you know, like the shit we've talked about before. 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:22.800 I'm just joking. Well, it's just funny you said that 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:25.040 because they do recycle at the end of every party, 1:48:25.040 --> 1:48:26.320 and we watch them recycle. 1:48:27.320 --> 1:48:29.599 Oh my god, I never watched the show. I'm sot 1:48:29.640 --> 1:48:33.160 Summer House. I stand corrected. I know you guys are 1:48:33.320 --> 1:48:35.680 recycling icons, and I apologize. 1:48:36.280 --> 1:48:38.920 They're just always picking up the cans after the party. 1:48:39.200 --> 1:48:41.600 Yeah, but do you think they're chatting about Ukraine? Do 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:43.320 you know what I mean? Like, I don't think they're 1:48:43.600 --> 1:48:45.360 I don't really think they're getting into that kind of 1:48:45.360 --> 1:48:47.479 shit at Summerhouse. I think that that's a sort of 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:48.200 a fun zone. 1:48:48.600 --> 1:48:51.120 No, but I've probably talked about this before. I mean, 1:48:51.200 --> 1:48:53.840 I think any of our consistent listeners will have to 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:56.880 just know that we will be repeating things. But you 1:48:56.920 --> 1:49:00.679 watch the MTV show back in the day called Rich Girls, Right, Yeah, 1:49:00.760 --> 1:49:02.559 I think so. I don't have a super clear memory 1:49:02.600 --> 1:49:04.080 on it, but I think I watched it, so it 1:49:04.120 --> 1:49:06.519 meant a lot to me. Casey's nodding, so it was 1:49:06.560 --> 1:49:07.679 Tommy one of Tommy. 1:49:07.520 --> 1:49:10.400 Hill, He'll figure okay, yeah, yeah. 1:49:10.479 --> 1:49:13.479 And then her friend was less rich, but like her 1:49:13.600 --> 1:49:16.040 dad owned like a luggage company and it was like 1:49:16.160 --> 1:49:18.880 luggage wears, and they were out to lunch or dinner 1:49:18.880 --> 1:49:21.080 and they were getting drunk and stuff. But they were 1:49:21.120 --> 1:49:23.840 just talking about like I mean, people in the Midwest, 1:49:23.840 --> 1:49:26.479 they don't wear cargo pants for like fashion, but they 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:29.760 need the pockets because they're in the fields working. And 1:49:30.040 --> 1:49:32.200 I loved. 1:49:31.920 --> 1:49:36.240 That they need those loops for their hammers. Yeah, I 1:49:36.280 --> 1:49:36.720 love that. 1:49:36.720 --> 1:49:39.679 That's so funny. But I don't know, but I'm sure 1:49:39.720 --> 1:49:41.280 that happens to all of that. But we're also getting 1:49:41.320 --> 1:49:43.599 more information than we're supposed to, Like we shouldn't be 1:49:43.600 --> 1:49:44.360 thinking about all. 1:49:44.320 --> 1:49:46.880 Dated with information. The twenty four hour news cycle is 1:49:47.160 --> 1:49:47.639 the devil. 1:49:48.120 --> 1:49:51.120 Like I don't know, I shouldn't know everything that's happening, 1:49:51.160 --> 1:49:54.160 but it's like everywhere you look, there's just like catastrophes 1:49:54.760 --> 1:49:59.560 and then we're you know, but then we gotta be happy. Yeah, 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:01.679 all right, well we don't have anything. 1:50:01.880 --> 1:50:03.400 At least you don't have an evil twin who was 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:07.120 trying to frame you for multiple rapes. So also, even 1:50:07.160 --> 1:50:08.920 if you think you didn't do it, and you know 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:11.160 you one hundred percent are innocent, get a lawyer. 1:50:11.360 --> 1:50:13.600 Get a lawyer. Stop going to talk to the. 1:50:13.720 --> 1:50:16.400 Top dot hops alone. Don't do it. 1:50:17.040 --> 1:50:20.040 I got nothing to hide. Get a lawyer. It's just 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.280 like ridiculous tr and night being such. Also, don't get 1:50:23.400 --> 1:50:28.559 neck tattoos if you're being casual. Yeah, fucking eight ball 1:50:28.640 --> 1:50:31.360 on his neck? Was that like? What? Oh? No, yyanyang? 1:50:31.640 --> 1:50:32.719 It was a yin yang. 1:50:33.920 --> 1:50:36.960 A neck tattoo is wild. Let's get into our what 1:50:37.000 --> 1:50:38.360 would Sister Peg Do? Segment? 1:50:38.400 --> 1:50:38.679 Guys. 1:50:38.720 --> 1:50:41.080 This is our weekly segment where we direct you towards 1:50:41.200 --> 1:50:44.760 a book, an organization, a article, something to help you 1:50:45.200 --> 1:50:47.320 learn a little bit more about what we talked about 1:50:47.320 --> 1:50:51.640 in today's episode. And for today's What would Sister Peg Do, 1:50:51.720 --> 1:50:53.599 we'd like to point you to a really interesting article 1:50:53.600 --> 1:50:55.920 in The New York Times about the recent advancements in 1:50:56.000 --> 1:50:59.400 DNA testing. And the article is called one twin committed 1:50:59.439 --> 1:51:02.320 the crime, but which one a new DNA test can 1:51:02.560 --> 1:51:04.640 finger the culprit. I don't really like it when we 1:51:04.720 --> 1:51:06.439 use finger in that way, but this is a good 1:51:06.439 --> 1:51:10.479 resource and it's written by Carl Zimmer. It explores some 1:51:10.520 --> 1:51:13.960 new DNA sequencing techniques that could potentially pinpoint genetic mutations 1:51:13.960 --> 1:51:17.080 in DNA that would allow for scientists to differentiate between 1:51:17.120 --> 1:51:20.400 identical twins. So pretty interesting and hopefully we won't have 1:51:20.479 --> 1:51:23.600 any more double strand situations going forward with this new technology. 1:51:23.640 --> 1:51:26.280 But an interesting article. It will be in our show notes. 1:51:26.320 --> 1:51:30.719 It will be also, as always on our Instagram under 1:51:30.720 --> 1:51:34.040 the what would Sister peg do the WWSPD highlight where 1:51:34.080 --> 1:51:35.960 we save all of those little babies. 1:51:36.280 --> 1:51:38.320 All right, thank you so much for that. And next 1:51:38.320 --> 1:51:42.759 week's episode will be Maternal Instincts. That's season seventeen, episode six. 1:51:42.800 --> 1:51:45.439 We're pumped you guys, listen watch along with us, and 1:51:45.479 --> 1:51:59.400 we'll see you next week. I that's messed up as 1:51:59.439 --> 1:52:02.519 an exactly write production. If you have compliments you'd like 1:52:02.600 --> 1:52:04.680 to give us, or episodes you'd like us to cover, 1:52:04.720 --> 1:52:07.679 shoot us an email it that's messed uppod at gmail 1:52:07.720 --> 1:52:11.280 dot com. Follow the podcast on Instagram. At That's Messed 1:52:11.360 --> 1:52:14.240 Up Pod and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and 1:52:14.360 --> 1:52:17.840 follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese. 1:52:18.320 --> 1:52:21.000 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:21.719 more information. 1:52:22.320 --> 1:52:25.439 Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and 1:52:25.560 --> 1:52:28.879 to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cotner, 1:52:29.160 --> 1:52:31.840 and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly 1:52:31.960 --> 1:52:33.439 gen Andrews for our artwork. 1:52:33.800 --> 1:52:37.600 Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, 1:52:37.680 --> 1:52:40.240 Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media. 1:52:41.840 --> 1:52:42.599 Dun dun