Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
Speaker 1: weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host.
Speaker 2: Rams's job is Ramsey's jaw. I am q ward. You
Speaker 2: are tuned into hopefully still listening to and still riding
Speaker 2: with us here at Civic Sifer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and shout out to everyone who was listening to
Speaker 1: the first part of the show, because the second part
Speaker 1: kind of leans on it a bit, but you don't
Speaker 1: need to have listened to the first part of the
Speaker 1: show in order to get it. Today we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, working with folks with opposing views political political views,
Speaker 1: and we've compiled a few best practices that we think
Speaker 1: will help you on your way. We know that this
Speaker 1: is kind of like an interesting time in our country's history,
Speaker 1: and you know, the story we told in the first
Speaker 1: half just kind of illustrated what division looks like and
Speaker 1: how being committed to brotherhood and sisterhood really goes a
Speaker 1: long way. So we're going to continue to developed that.
Speaker 1: But before we get there, it's time to discuss Baba
Speaker 1: becoming a better ally.
Speaker 2: Bye, bab becoming a better ally. Sponsored by Friends of
Speaker 2: the Movement. You can sign up for the free voter
Speaker 2: wallet from fotmglobal dot com to support black businesses and
Speaker 2: allied businesses as well as make an impact with your
Speaker 2: spending Again fotmglobal dot com. The story comes from Zantousa
Speaker 2: dot org. The USA General Women's Strike has been called
Speaker 2: for June twenty fourth, twenty twenty four. Nice join the
Speaker 2: women's strike. Show your support for reproductive rights and equality
Speaker 2: by refusing to work, spend, and wearing red. Step one,
Speaker 2: strike no work, no nothing. Step two. If you can't strike,
Speaker 2: no spending. Step three We're read. Step four amplify on
Speaker 2: social media. Give you some background. The US Supreme Court
Speaker 2: is issued it's ruling on the Dobs case on June
Speaker 2: twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, taking away the constitutional right
Speaker 2: to abortion, abandoning almost fifty years of precedent and paving
Speaker 2: the way for states to ban abortions. Women of the
Speaker 2: USA will take their stand on June twenty fourth, and
Speaker 2: in November. Ramses that was really really hard to read,
Speaker 2: not because I can't read, but because it's the type
Speaker 2: of thing that a few years ago would have seemed impossible.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us thought.
Speaker 1: Rob Wade was law that would Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us thought. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of us think that a lot of things that
Speaker 2: seem like legal, that are just legal precedent, are lawed
Speaker 2: permanently because they're the things that any decent humans should
Speaker 2: just be allowed to have.
Speaker 1: And I think that we're we've grown up accustomed to,
Speaker 1: like a more progressive evolution of our country. But if
Speaker 1: you do want to support this, you can check out
Speaker 1: Women's March dot org or is Onto USA dot org
Speaker 1: and joins this boycott. We certainly will, all right, So
Speaker 1: back to working with folks with opposing opinions. So I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell another story, my bad. I'm story Time
Speaker 1: all the show Man. My bad. But there's another story
Speaker 1: I want to tell. And you know, I mentioned, you
Speaker 1: know on another in another conversation that you and I
Speaker 1: had having to go to my jeweler. It's not as
Speaker 1: fancy as it sounds, fancy as I just know I'm sitting.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling y'all it's because of y'all. Well, my
Speaker 1: jeweler is someone that I've known for some years now. Again,
Speaker 1: he's a good man. I have no reason to think otherwise.
Speaker 1: He's a family man. He is very kind. Imagine me
Speaker 1: walking into your jewelry store, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He doesn't treat me like a threat. You know, there's
Speaker 1: an an extra layer of trust there that I would
Speaker 1: feel like is reserved for people that are friends, you know.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'll say his name just so you
Speaker 1: can follow the story. His name is orin Okay. Orrin
Speaker 1: is a Sephardic Jew. And the reason I know what
Speaker 1: a Sephardic Jew is is because Oran taught me that
Speaker 1: years ago, and he was very happy to explain that
Speaker 1: to me, and I loved learning about it. There's something
Speaker 1: very special about So. I grew up Christian, right, and
Speaker 1: like most Christians, growing up Christian doesn't really mean a
Speaker 1: whole lot in the same way that it that it
Speaker 1: what it means when you grow up Muslim and you
Speaker 1: have to pray five times a day, or you grow
Speaker 1: up Jewish and you wear a yamaka and you don't
Speaker 1: wear jewelry and you're you know, Orthodox, or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a little bit more discipline and alignment
Speaker 1: with the doctrines of the faith in these other religions.
Speaker 1: And so for me to see this commitment from Muslim
Speaker 1: people over the years, from Jewish people over the years.
Speaker 1: It's something that I've always appreciated, very admirable, and I've
Speaker 1: always been very interested in learning more about it, and
Speaker 1: I do my best to receive these conversations in a
Speaker 1: in a loving way. You know, these people aren't anything
Speaker 1: other than just amazing people expressing faith, and it's another
Speaker 1: expression of humanity, and I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: With that said, Ever since this war broke out, with
Speaker 1: Israel's response to you know, October seventh, being, in my
Speaker 1: words and what I told him a little bit more,
Speaker 1: a lot more aggressive than most people are comfortable with,
Speaker 1: I've been I've been thinking about him because I know
Speaker 1: that I feel this way, and I would have assumed
Speaker 1: that he would have been one of the people who
Speaker 1: would applaud Israel's response protecting Jewish lives right, And I
Speaker 1: can't be mad at him for feeling that way. I
Speaker 1: don't think I think there's a line, and I think
Speaker 1: the human part of you, before you're before you're anything,
Speaker 1: you're a human being, before you're Christian, before you're black,
Speaker 1: before you're white, before you're whatever, you're a human being.
Speaker 1: That is that's verifiable.
Speaker 2: That's not true of everyone.
Speaker 1: Though, But I feel like when the more evolved, the
Speaker 1: more you.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what I mean. But if if from
Speaker 2: birth you are indoctrinated, that's a tougher with regard to religion.
Speaker 2: Then you are nothing before that. If your first thoughts,
Speaker 2: the first rules that you've ever abided by in life,
Speaker 2: were tied directly to.
Speaker 1: That faith, that fair life is worth less than that. Yes,
Speaker 1: and this is this is fair. I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: that because I know that that has That's exactly what
Speaker 1: I have been taught and would be taught now if
Speaker 1: I was, you know, in like super deep into any faith.
Speaker 1: All of them are like that. But I feel like
Speaker 1: the more educated a person becomes, the closer to quote
Speaker 1: unquote God a person becomes, you know whatever, the more
Speaker 1: they realize that some of their some of the beliefs
Speaker 1: that they have stand in contrast and in conflict to
Speaker 1: some of the other beliefs that they have from the
Speaker 1: same book. Right, So, if these people are your brothers,
Speaker 1: and you should do no harm and that should not
Speaker 1: kill them, whatever it is that your faith teaches you,
Speaker 1: you have to reconcile that text with that text, right.
Speaker 2: I think what happens though, we'd like to assume that
Speaker 2: closer to God also means more enlightened, and it does.
Speaker 1: Not not always. There are some people who I feel like.
Speaker 2: No, both can be true, but they don't mean the same.
Speaker 2: It's so that the idea you can get closer to
Speaker 2: God and become more extreme because you didn't learn to
Speaker 2: just dove more into your faith.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, that you're you're You're absolutely right, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned that too. So this is clearly
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tricky subject. But back to Oran.
Speaker 1: One of the things that is I think it might
Speaker 1: be impossible for me to do is to pretend like
Speaker 1: I feel a different way than I do, or to
Speaker 1: hide how I truly feel because I feel like it
Speaker 1: might hurt somebody. That's just not my way. I would
Speaker 1: feel so fake. I call Ami my brother, you know.
Speaker 1: I call Orrian my brother. You know, I'm grateful to
Speaker 1: be able to call both of them my brother. I'm grateful,
Speaker 1: you know, all of the people of different faiths and
Speaker 1: different races and different walks of life that I've met
Speaker 1: that have become you know, family members, brothers, sisters, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, it's an honor. They make my life more beautiful, right,
Speaker 1: and so far be it from me to pretend to
Speaker 1: be fake, to hide something from them, And so I
Speaker 1: kind of my tendency is to lean into those things.
Speaker 1: And so in talking to him, I says, Hey, I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about you for some months now, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to invite you up to talk on my show.
Speaker 1: You have educated me on Judaism and what it means
Speaker 1: to be a Jewish person in my adult life in
Speaker 1: such meaningful ways. Just hanging out with you in this
Speaker 1: jewelry store, it's very special to me. And I feel
Speaker 1: like if there's anyone that I know who is as
Speaker 1: knowledgeable as you, who as as committed to his faith
Speaker 1: as you, who can say it was involved politically well,
Speaker 1: who can bring some insight to this, it would be you.
Speaker 1: Now I have to warn you, I love you. You're
Speaker 1: my brother. I feel differently, I feel like Israel's response
Speaker 1: to this is much too far, and I still feel
Speaker 1: like you maybe can come and share your thoughts. I
Speaker 1: won't be combative with me and Ammi. It's different. I
Speaker 1: could Meanami could go at it all day, but with
Speaker 1: Orin it's not like that it's just a different temperament. Right,
Speaker 1: meeting where he is, you can say what you want
Speaker 1: to say. I want to honor Jewish people. That we've
Speaker 1: spent many episodes on this show honoring Jewish people, defending
Speaker 1: Jewish people against black people. Right, So it's tough to
Speaker 1: walk that line, to give everybody a seat at the table,
Speaker 1: everyone a chance to express themselves. But the right thing
Speaker 1: to do, and I'll let you jump in, is to
Speaker 1: say how I feel. To make sure that he feels
Speaker 1: confident in saying how he feels. And now you have
Speaker 1: the beginnings of a conversation. What you say will will
Speaker 1: be well received. It might not change how I feel,
Speaker 1: but let's begin a conversation. And I think there's a
Speaker 1: lesson there.
Speaker 2: But we're gonna get into some of our best practices
Speaker 2: with regards to having discussions with people who have, you know,
Speaker 2: different opinions than us, mostly in a political space. But
Speaker 2: I just want to point out, just in case I
Speaker 2: don't have time to say this later, all of us
Speaker 2: require grace at some point. One thing to always remember
Speaker 2: in these situations is to extend it in return. The
Speaker 2: thing that stands out the most to me, and I'm
Speaker 2: just bringing this up because of the conflict in Gaza
Speaker 2: is that you said many times on this show. We
Speaker 2: have defended Jewish people, we have shouted down anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: We knew in those moments that the people that needed
Speaker 2: the grace, that needed the allies, that needed their voices
Speaker 2: to be heard, were our Jewish brothers and sisters. To
Speaker 2: our Jewish brothers and sisters, somebody else needs that grace. Now,
Speaker 2: even if you thought a response was necessary and justified,
Speaker 2: at some point, your humanity does have to show up.
Speaker 2: Because when your humanity is brought to question and disrespected
Speaker 2: and people try to stomp on it, you have allies,
Speaker 2: and you require grace and we show it. You cannot
Speaker 2: ask for and require grace and then not extended when
Speaker 2: someone else needs it. So, when we're talking about differences
Speaker 2: of opinion, sure, but as I said before, we cannot
Speaker 2: be different on everything, especially when part of what we're
Speaker 2: different on allows for my people, my ancestry, my prosperity,
Speaker 2: my posterity to be stomped out, and and and not
Speaker 2: only are you not standing to defend or protect me,
Speaker 2: but you're joining in and doubling down on it like that.
Speaker 2: That cannot be the solution, especially because we all know
Speaker 2: that at some point all of us have axed for
Speaker 2: and received some sort of grace.
Speaker 1: You know, I say stuff and I think I got it,
Speaker 1: and then you come and then you tie it all together,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, that was it my fault. Thank
Speaker 1: you for making me sound better, cause I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So last little bit, you know, I mentioned again that, uh,
Speaker 1: my position was that Israel had gone too far, and
Speaker 1: Luren says, well, what do you think Israel should have done?
Speaker 2: Hm?
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, I I don't know. A.
Speaker 1: The reason I said that is because that was not
Speaker 1: the place to have that conversation. B I'm probably not
Speaker 1: the best person to have that conversation. I'm an ally,
Speaker 1: so I share things here and there, but far be
Speaker 1: it for me to dictate what the line should be.
Speaker 1: I can speak up when the line is too far right,
Speaker 1: and I reserve that right. Everyone should right. The other
Speaker 1: thing is, you know Q was gonna get a kick
Speaker 1: out of this, but I don't like to have the
Speaker 1: conversation before I have the conversation. So if he ever
Speaker 1: does come up on the show, you will hear him
Speaker 1: and I have our conversation for the first time. Now,
Speaker 1: what happened in this story and in the earlier story
Speaker 1: with Ami stories with Amy. What are some of the
Speaker 1: things that we learned in our time growing this show
Speaker 1: where we've had people who are in powerful positions, oftentimes
Speaker 1: they're white men, and we're wanting to do a show
Speaker 1: that foster's allyship for black and brown people. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't benefit them to directly, it costs them airtime.
Speaker 1: They're not playing hip hop songs, and we're talking about
Speaker 1: you know, the struggle, you know, dead people dying, mother's weeping,
Speaker 1: We're talking about trying to grow as human beings, and
Speaker 1: they're on radio stations where people are trying to party. Right, So,
Speaker 1: what is it that we've done and seen has worked
Speaker 1: over these years. Well, one of the things that we do,
Speaker 1: and I think that c is a lot better at
Speaker 1: this than I am, is we find things that we
Speaker 1: can agree on in a general sense, and it might
Speaker 1: be something as simple as you know, we we we
Speaker 1: want these people to be safe. You know, you're not
Speaker 1: going to find too many people that would disagree with
Speaker 1: the statement like yeah.
Speaker 2: So statements like that are important because they help you
Speaker 2: identify people who are so far removed from the conversation
Speaker 2: that you're trying to have to know that you should
Speaker 2: not try to have it. So one of the things
Speaker 2: before we even get into best practices is that sometimes
Speaker 2: disengaging is the best option because a person has either
Speaker 2: decided that the facts aren't the facts, they've decided that
Speaker 2: your point of view is so far beneath theirs that
Speaker 2: it does not even deserve a dignified you know, exchange,
Speaker 2: or that there's just a level of decency required that
Speaker 2: isn't present. Right, everyone should be safe. Rams just put
Speaker 2: that as a softball on purpose, because we should all
Speaker 2: be able to agree on something like that, But there
Speaker 2: are cases where we cannot, and you realize before a
Speaker 2: conversation even starts, Okay, we should not even participate in
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 1: So that brings me to my second point on the
Speaker 1: I guess it's our list. But recognizing that agreeing on
Speaker 1: the same set of facts is mission critical because often
Speaker 1: we're not working with the same set of facts. There
Speaker 1: are facts that are falsehoods, they're just purported as facts.
Speaker 1: There are gaps in factual information. Lord knows, on this show,
Speaker 1: we both learn things after the fact, and we just
Speaker 1: didn't know that, and we have to come back as
Speaker 1: we do and apologize and make the stories right. You know,
Speaker 1: we want to. This is not a cloud chase, we
Speaker 1: eat humble Pie, this show. Yeah, this is We're trying
Speaker 1: to do what we feel is right in our hearts. Right, So,
Speaker 1: once you start getting to them real meat and potatoes
Speaker 1: of your conversation, after you've kind of figured out what
Speaker 1: you agree on in a general sense, it's easier to
Speaker 1: take the next step and start agreeing on what the
Speaker 1: facts are. And one of the things that we do
Speaker 1: is we research the facts, and oftentimes people will have
Speaker 1: opinions that are purported as facts, and so we have
Speaker 1: to do media biased So it's not just fact checking.
Speaker 1: We have to check the bias. Is this Does this
Speaker 1: come from a decidedly far right source or a decidedly
Speaker 1: far left source? Politically speaking? Is there a bias inherent
Speaker 1: in these words? How can this person use that bias
Speaker 1: against me? How can I let them know that the
Speaker 1: bias is what they're feeding into and not the facts,
Speaker 1: you know, and and starting to have that conversation. And
Speaker 1: there are objective neutral media bias fact checking sites online
Speaker 1: that you can check for yourself and the.
Speaker 2: Truth is there are objective sources as well, and they're
Speaker 2: trying to find those collectively is important.
Speaker 1: So in your activism and allyship, if it goes that far,
Speaker 1: you know, that's another thing to check. And Google is
Speaker 1: your friend, and it's on your phone and it's free.
Speaker 2: So however, Google will bring you back both biased and
Speaker 2: objective sources. So Google is your friend. But even after that,
Speaker 2: but you need you need to fact check.
Speaker 1: But you can you can google where to find out
Speaker 1: the media bias checks too. So another thing that we
Speaker 1: think is a really good idea is to understand that
Speaker 1: if we can't agree on how to get to where
Speaker 1: we're going together, Let's say we both say, hey, we
Speaker 1: want a better society for all people. If we don't
Speaker 1: agree on how to get there together, if we can
Speaker 1: both commit to getting there individually, understanding that hey, you
Speaker 1: feel differently than I do on the path to get there,
Speaker 1: but at some point you might need me. I want
Speaker 1: you to know that you can call me when you
Speaker 1: need me, and I would like to know that I
Speaker 1: can call you when I need you, and you do
Speaker 1: your work and I'll do mine. Again, keeping that tissue
Speaker 1: of that semblance of brotherhood, of shared motivation and so forth.
Speaker 1: You know, we got a lot more in common than
Speaker 1: than what differentiates us, and we do need each other
Speaker 1: no matter what, and not losing sight of that is
Speaker 1: very important. Can we not interfere with each other's work?
Speaker 1: In other words, I don't want to stand in your way,
Speaker 1: A lie, Marjorie Taylor Green. Okay, if you're doing it
Speaker 1: and you got the votes, and that's what's happening, let
Speaker 1: me not stand in your way. I gotta win another
Speaker 1: fight over here, right, that's what's happening. Get on board. Okay.
Speaker 1: You brought the example of Donald Trump became president. Guess
Speaker 1: what he was a president of the United States of America.
Speaker 1: Guess rather the United States of America. And like any
Speaker 1: single solitary moment of it, but important to say because
Speaker 1: we do have an election coming up.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, this is a zero sum political system here, and
Speaker 2: we have to have a president. And I see a
Speaker 2: lot of people that are preparing to not participate because
Speaker 2: they don't think there's a good enough candidate. Listen, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna pretend I don't feel you. I even feel
Speaker 2: your reason why.
Speaker 1: One is way worse.
Speaker 2: I have to keep revisiting the absolute fact that we
Speaker 2: have to have a president. Yeah, there's going to be
Speaker 2: one one of them. You know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I feel you. For everybody listening to me, I'm
Speaker 2: not judging you, I'm not belittling you. I feel you
Speaker 2: and I agree with you. Right, Neither of them deserve you,
Speaker 2: neither of them deserve me. But you have to think
Speaker 2: about the reality you have to live in in the
Speaker 2: event that one of these people is elected, because one
Speaker 2: of them will be elected no matter what.
Speaker 1: Just to wrap this up real quick, I'm not saying,
Speaker 1: don't interfere with the social order, shut down freeways, barricade
Speaker 1: yourselves and libraries. I love that energy, keep it up,
Speaker 1: but always remember that these people on the opposing sides
Speaker 1: are your brothers and sisters, even when it's tough, especially
Speaker 1: when it's tough, because that's when you get to prove
Speaker 1: that they're your brothers and your sisters. So we'll leave
Speaker 1: that one right there. As always, i'd like to thank
Speaker 1: you for tuning in to another episode of Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Hopefully learn something. I have been your host rams this job.
Speaker 2: He has, and I've been trying to convince you to
Speaker 2: go to our YouTube channel Civic Cipher on YouTube, Civic
Speaker 2: Cipher on everything else as well, But go to our
Speaker 2: YouTube channel because we got some special things coming. Rams
Speaker 2: has got me even more excited than I was already
Speaker 2: about the things that we're going to bring to you guys.
Speaker 2: But support us, like us, comment, share some love, and
Speaker 2: share our show with your friends, with your neighbors, and
Speaker 2: with your family members that need to hear these conversations.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and for anything else, hit the website civicipher
Speaker 1: dot com. You can submit any questions if you've got
Speaker 1: any topics you want us to cover. Make a donation.
Speaker 1: This is not a free operation, so make a donation.
Speaker 1: Please be sure to follow all the rest of our
Speaker 1: social media at civic Cipher. You can follow me at Rams,
Speaker 1: this job, I am q Ward and oh don't forget.
Speaker 1: You can download this and any previous episode, so if
Speaker 1: you missed the first half, it's somewhere out there and
Speaker 1: until next week, I'll peace