1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, 4 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: Max Tiny Subs Williams. 5 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: Max the Living Large Language Model Williams. 6 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Yes, Max uh untold story of D Day Williams. 7 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, who's that? 8 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 4: Well? 9 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 5: That the person who said, who's that chiming in? 10 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 3: That's the crowd? 11 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 5: I am. 12 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: I am ben Bully in this part of the world. 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: And you just heard from a returning expert, a person 14 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: who continually uh appears on every single episode we do. 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: In the credits, it is weird none other than Professor 16 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: Rachel big Spinach Lance. Doctor Lance, thank you for coming 17 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: back to the show. 18 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 4: Ah, thank you. Yeah, it is just doctor Lance. Though 19 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 4: I'm no longer a professor. I have left that lifestyle behind. 20 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 4: I have stopped. Yeah, transition. 21 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 3: Does that happen on day one? 22 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 4: Okay, you have to turn them in when you leave? 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, right, like day of elbow? Yeah, and sock security 24 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 5: escorts people out. Uh now? Yeah. Rachel. 25 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: In our previous exploration, the thing that inspired us us 26 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: to brag about your bona fides and accolades for low 27 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: these several years we talked about the story of the Hunley. 28 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: Could you give us a brief recap on that? 29 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 4: Oh, I don't know if I could be brief, I'll try, 30 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 4: all right. So February seventeenth, eighteen sixty four, the Civil 31 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 4: War in America is raging full force. One of the 32 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 4: major sources of the bulk of the conflict is Charleston, 33 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 4: South Carolina. It's being bombed and blockaded on a constant 34 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 4: basis because that's where the war started. So naturally, what 35 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 4: do the Confederates decide to do but use a bunch 36 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 4: of recycled steam boiler parts to handcraft a submarine, as 37 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 4: we all would. This crew of eight personnel take their 38 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 4: hand crank homemade submarine out around eight pm that night, 39 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 4: and they use it to press a two hundred pound 40 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 4: black powder bomb against the side of one of the 41 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 4: Union ships blockading their city. Now that's a bomb about 42 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 4: the seism a beer cug. The bomb does successfully go off, 43 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 4: but then the crew and their vessel disappear until the 44 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: modern era. So modern explorers found it first in nineteen seventy, 45 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 4: then again in nineteen ninety five. It was brought up 46 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: in two thousand and Once it was raised, the mystery 47 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: of why it disappeared in eighteen sixty four after apparently 48 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 4: being victorious and sinking this unionship only deepened. Everyone was 49 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 4: in the sub Nobody was trying to get out, the 50 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 4: hatches were all locked. They didn't try to pump out 51 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: any water. Everyone just kind of slumped over at their 52 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: battle stations, and it was like, we have achieved our goal. 53 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 4: Farewell Crural world. 54 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: And what somehow Clive Cussler is involved in this whole thing, 55 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: the best selling author. 56 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, so he's since passed away, but yes, in the 57 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 4: nineties he was very active in funding a lot of 58 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 4: exploratory groups looking for ships. And there was another explorer 59 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: named Lispance who had written a bunch of letters saying 60 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 4: he discovered this disappeared Hunley in nineteen seventy and he 61 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 4: Custler's team took that information. As far as I can track, 62 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 4: that's what really happened. He took that information and they 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 4: went out with they are much greater resources than they're 64 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: much greater cloud, which does matter. In nineteen ninety five, 65 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 4: and they did something really smart. They announced that they 66 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 4: found it, which since then name Cloud Custler is attached, 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 4: gets real big press and real big pressure, and they 68 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: refuse to tell anyone where until everyone had signed all 69 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: the contracts agreeing what would happen to it, so that 70 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 4: everybody was motivated to stop fighting and figure it out 71 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 4: so they could get this artifact back. 72 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: And for anyone who wants to know more about this, 73 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: turns out there's an entire book, yeah, which inspired our friendship. 74 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: It is called In the Waves, My Quest to Solve 75 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: the Mystery of a Civil War Submarine, by none other. 76 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 4: Than you, our undying friendship. 77 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 3: Fams. 78 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: Unlike the crew of the alright, no, it's you know 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 4: they would have. It was years ago. We can make 80 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 4: dark jokes. 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: About it, for sure, and gay if I could, can 82 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: I can? I just rattle off some Clive Cussler novel names. 83 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: We've got plague Ship, We've got the Saboteurs, We've got 84 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: the Romanov Ransom, Polar Shift, the Jungle, The Course of 85 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: can Shadow Fire, Ice, Devil's Gate, and the Navigator. 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 3: Sorry, these are just very like. 87 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: I like the bookend with the plague Ship and Navigator 88 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: was my favorite. 89 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 3: It's very metal, I will say. 90 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 4: Like plague Ship is a better title than in the Waves. 91 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 4: I'm sorry it is. 92 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well in that case, I gotta give credit. 93 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, in that case, then it sounds like, uh, 94 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: it sounds like it's time to write a third book, 95 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: since you definitely haven't been busy writing a second book 96 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: not too long ago called Chamber Divers, the untold story 97 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: of the D Day scientists who changed special operations forever. Uh, 98 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: this is this is something we've read again, fans, viewers 99 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: and our this is the brag. We were talking about 100 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: this off air and no'll remember we always like to 101 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: say this at parties. We know the world's foremost authority 102 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: on underwater explosions. 103 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 3: It's so niche. I love it. 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 4: I do a lot of physics in my free time. Yeah. 105 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: Before we were talking about what your what your hobby 106 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 4: would be if the world suddenly, like everyone disappeared, I 107 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 4: think underwater blast physics might be it like that. 108 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: Perfect perfect We're we're reaching out to a lot of 109 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: people with that one what more universal concept. 110 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 5: Uh so let's maybe let's. 111 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: I almost said, dive into this, so keep it right, 112 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: all right, we'll keep it. We'll keep it for the doctor. 113 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit if you can about 114 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: D Day, which was not too long ago. I think 115 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people in the United States have seen 116 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: depictions of. 117 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: It, famously in saving private run part of it. 118 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so when people are I don't know, I 119 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: was thinking about this Noel and Rachel off Air. I 120 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: was thinking, how do people who live in Normandy now 121 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: feel about D Day? 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 5: As a good question to start with. 123 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 4: Right, fun fact, I recently had the opportunity to go 124 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 4: to an underwater physiology conference, not in Normandy but close 125 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 4: by and breast and I asked many French people this question. Really, Yes, 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 4: they're very honored by the actions taken by the other 127 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 4: allies at D Day, like they they take that ouniverse 128 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 4: thory seriously and they even young people were deeply moved 129 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 4: by that event. And how much the world really came 130 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 4: to France with a specific purpose. It was broader than 131 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: France alone, of course, like World War two is bigger 132 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 4: than France alone. But they they very much have the 133 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 4: mentality and attitude that they were rescued and they appreciate 134 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 4: that and the amount of effort and blood that went 135 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 4: into it. 136 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: Now Normandy famously known for their high quality butter that 137 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: they produce. 138 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 4: Yes, they're very sassy about their butter. 139 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: It's really good. Good. 140 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 4: If you tie and buy on salted butter, you get 141 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 4: kicked out. No. 142 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: I mean the first time I had French butter, it 143 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 2: was like, this is a whole other universe, Like this 144 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: is nothing like the butter we get over here. 145 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're not, they're not proud of nothing like that. 146 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: I'll say that it's good. It's good. 147 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 5: They've got they've got credit work. 148 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 4: Exactly, They've got the good. So yeah, d Day, June sixth, 149 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 4: nineteen forty four. As an American, i'd found even as 150 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 4: someone who has always been invested in history, specifically World 151 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 4: War Two history, grew up watching tons of documentaries with 152 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 4: my dad. My grandpa's both fought in it, and so 153 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 4: I had never processed it that way. But one day 154 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,239 Speaker 4: I just had this weird realization that we as Americans 155 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 4: think of World War Two as Pearl Harbor December seventh, 156 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 4: nineteen forty one, and then a time warp occurs and 157 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 4: it's June sixth, nineteen forty four and we're storming the 158 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 4: beaches of Normandy. 159 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 2: Sometimes history does be like that, Yeah, sometimes linear. 160 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: And people just explain it by as though their studio 161 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: exacts pitching a film right right. 162 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: To be the zed this miracle time warp occurs for 163 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 4: Americans at least, and that's the way we talk about 164 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 4: World War Two. And I started picking away at it 165 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: and I was like, why was there at delay? And 166 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 4: as I wrote in The Waves, my first book, there 167 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 4: was one part in there that actually you can see 168 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 4: as the carryover link that became chamber divers So there's 169 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: one part in there where in nineteen forty, this group 170 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 4: of British scientists is doing this experiment on themselves that 171 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 4: had relevance totally by coincidence to the hl Henley from 172 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 4: the Civil War. So I used that experiment in The Waves, 173 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 4: and I didn't really at that time connect it, but 174 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: because I didn't know yet, I honestly didn't know. One 175 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 4: day I was sitting there thinking about World War Two 176 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 4: as one does, and thinking about carbon dioxide as one does, 177 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 4: and I realized, like, wait a minute, these guys were 178 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 4: in London in nineteen forty doing this weird little test 179 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 4: on themselves with carbon dioxide, and I was like, they 180 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 4: were being bun Then why did they care about carbon 181 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 4: dioxide when bombs are literally falling on you and I 182 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 4: started digging, and that's the story that ended up leading 183 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: to chamber divers because it turned out that one little 184 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 4: paper was really all that they'd been allowed to publish 185 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 4: from this series of experiments where the ultimate goal was 186 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: the beaches of Normandy. So circling back, that's three and 187 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 4: a half years, or I might have done that math wrong, 188 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 4: don't don't emn me. Between December ninety one June nineteen 189 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 4: forty four, what was happening in that time period was 190 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 4: science because of beach landing, at least on the scale 191 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 4: that took place at Normandy had never happened successfully. So 192 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 4: we think of it, we think of D Day, and 193 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 4: we think of it from the modern perspective as like 194 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 4: this huge event, this major storming, and people died, of course, 195 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 4: and I will never make light of that, but like, 196 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 4: oh oh, overall it was a success. The Allies took 197 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 4: the beaches. We don't realize fully how world shaking that 198 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 4: is because no military had successfully done that before. Every 199 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 4: previous attempt had resulted in absolute massacre on the beaches. 200 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 4: So it took those intervening years to figure out how 201 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 4: to do that. And so that's what I wrote about. 202 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 4: I wrote about this one group of scientists that was 203 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 4: a contributing factor. You know, obviously no one group did 204 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 4: it all by themselves. It was massive, but like what 205 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 4: this group did was a part of it. 206 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense, and I love the point we're 207 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: bringing up here. At the time, the invasion that we 208 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: call D Day today in the West was the largest 209 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: of its sort in history and also the. 210 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 5: One successful one. 211 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 212 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: We're talking to hundreds of thousands of troops, uh, tens 213 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: of thousands of vehicles, a bunch of equipment. Yeah right, 214 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: a real cannon fodder type situation. 215 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the engineering problem of hey, get a 216 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 4: tank from a ship to the land. That alone, that's 217 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 4: a challenge. Now you had people shooting at you. It's 218 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: a bigger challenge, right, And they did it, but they 219 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 4: did it through this crazy amount of innovation. One of 220 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 4: the previous examples, Winston Churchill during World War One, actually 221 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 4: led an attempted beach landing at Gallipoli and they got 222 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 4: stuck on the beach for a year and they eventually 223 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 4: gave up and left after. 224 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 5: They have to stay the whole year or the weather nice. 225 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 4: I mean, they were just there for a year with 226 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 4: no housing, beach shot at it was, Yeah, there's. 227 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 5: No supply chain logistics exactly. 228 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 4: It was. It was a terrible military failure. So Churchill 229 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 4: in particular was deeply aware of how big of a 230 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 4: problem this was. 231 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: So what we see then, It's a point we continually 232 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: returned to, is that history is often taught to us 233 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: as a series of one off, discrete events at best, 234 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: maybe a linear pop pop pop, like the acts in 235 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: a film. But the the fascinating thing is every day 236 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: is still occurring between those big moments, and as you said, 237 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: there's so much science involved, there's also a lot of 238 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: humanity involved, which we might We have to get to 239 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: some of these big characters in our second episode, But 240 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: is it fair to say, Rachel that there was a 241 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: little bit of mad science involved? 242 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 4: Understatement? I think these people were I don't want to yeah. 243 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 5: I don't want okay, but they were like a half 244 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 5: order of. 245 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 4: They were maybe like one banana what they were doing. 246 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: I do think it takes, and this was a group. 247 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 4: I do think it takes a really special person to 248 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 4: be in your home, to have food shortages, to have rationing, 249 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: to have bombs falling on you, and to say I 250 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 4: will stay because London is where the lab is, and 251 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 4: I think this is a big enough problem that I 252 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 4: am willing to put my body on the line to 253 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 4: test it. And that's exactly what this group of scientists did. 254 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 4: And they were all actually geneticists, and like, if you 255 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 4: want to save that for the second part, we can 256 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 4: get to that. But that's what I think is really 257 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 4: important is these people were scientists. One of them this 258 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 4: was a huge area of background for him. But the 259 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 4: Rusts were kind of learning it on the fly because 260 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 4: they collectively realized that the Allied militaries knew nothing. They 261 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 4: knew nothing, and so the fact that they had one 262 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 4: expert all of a sudden made this genetics lab in 263 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 4: London the global epicenter for un underwater research, many subs diving, 264 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 4: all of it that they would need in order to 265 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 4: plan these landings. 266 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: Now, also this story was previous to your publication, Chamber Divers. 267 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: This story was classified, right, it. 268 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 4: Was classified for minimum seventy years, so that was the 269 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 4: UK records. Now in that time, there is some nefariousness 270 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 4: some of the government officials involved, like stole some of 271 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 4: the work from these these scientists, and so there was 272 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 4: like added confusion that I started digging out as I 273 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 4: started going through the original records. Now everyone's dead, but 274 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 4: like you know, I have had no a vengeance against 275 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: that I needed against people who died, like when I 276 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 4: was in middle school. But so yeah, there was nefarious 277 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 4: happening in that time period. So this minimum of seventy 278 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 4: to eighty years of classification was applied to all the work, 279 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: and the UK did a bulk declassification of a lot 280 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 4: of D Day records and World War Two records in 281 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 4: about two thousand and one. So these records started being 282 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 4: declassified in about two thousand and one, and a lot 283 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 4: of the American records I had to submit requests for 284 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 4: to get them declassified. Wait requests, Foyer requests. Yeah, so 285 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 4: those were readily accepted. I'm not going to pretend it 286 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: was a huge battle, but what it does show is 287 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 4: that nobody had ever publicly read them. So the fact 288 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 4: that I had to do that they had not already 289 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 4: been cleared for release shows that I was the first 290 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 4: one to go through some of this stuff. 291 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 3: Nice. 292 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah that was an adventure, and that's why 293 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 4: this book also took a long time. Like my first 294 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 4: book came out April twenty twenty There were pandemic issues 295 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 4: with researching this, Like I started researching this and then 296 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 4: the pandemic hit and it became an infinitely longer task 297 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 4: and that I couldn't really even finish until travel started 298 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 4: clearing up because these records were in multiple archives throughout 299 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 4: the world and it was just this whole big thing. 300 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: But yeah, that this one came out last year, April 301 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. I had some personal issues that were 302 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: happening around there, which is why it took me a while. 303 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 4: They were jud to you, guys. I'm so sorry. Please 304 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 4: do not take it as a reflection of our. 305 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: Kidding, dying friendship. 306 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 5: You're a You're a wizard. A wizard is never late. 307 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I went to like a personal cave. But as 308 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 4: I crawled myself out, I was like, oh, no, we're here. 309 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 3: We've been waiting. 310 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: We've been mentioning you every episode many years. So putting 311 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: out the vibes into the universe. Mentioned on the jacket 312 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: of your book, this concept of let's see you use 313 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: the term maverick hard drinking submarine researchers. Can we unpack 314 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: that just a little bit before we get into the 315 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: main kind of duo and the love story that I'm 316 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: folds sure, wild story. 317 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 4: All right, where do you want to start? You want 318 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 4: to start with Maverick. 319 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 5: Bombs. 320 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: The bombs have not maybe yet quite fallen on London, 321 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: but uh, there is an ill. 322 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: Wind in the air. 323 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 4: War is coming. 324 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, people got the bad vibe, right, So uh so 325 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: now we have, as you said, uh, we've got a 326 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: bunch of boffins, right, and what are our boffins to do? 327 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 4: What to do? Yeah, I'm sorry, I've not heard that word. 328 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 5: Well, I guess our eggheads are our fellow nerds. 329 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 4: Okay word, Okay. So war is coming. There's this character 330 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 4: Hitler who's over on the mainland and he's expectorating some 331 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 4: very terrible things. Of of the things that he's just 332 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 4: like spitting on and out about is that he wants 333 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 4: to reclaim previous parts of the German Emperor Empire, the 334 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 4: Holy Roman Empire whatever you know. Terminology is being used 335 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 4: for the fluctuations of territories throughout Europe. So anyway, he's 336 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 4: being very vocal. He's planning to take over some stuff, 337 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 4: and the European countries around him are not thinking that's 338 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: so nice. They're like, no, you know, we're not going 339 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 4: to agree to that. So this guy, I don't know. 340 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: This guy seems like a totally good dude. 341 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 5: Yeah he's not the. 342 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 4: Best I have notes, but anyway, So by about nineteen 343 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 4: thirty eight, nineteen thirty nine, it's very clear that he 344 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 4: cannot be modified through diplomacy, and so England in particular, 345 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 4: who had been Germany's opponent during World wars World War One, 346 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 4: knows that war is coming for them. So one of 347 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 4: the things that they very smartly do as an island 348 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 4: nation is working on their submarines and their ships and 349 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 4: their ability to have naval warfare. So June first, nineteen 350 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 4: thirty nine, they have this submarine called the HMS Bedus 351 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 4: and this is the bit that was in the waves 352 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 4: that kind of brought me over. HMS Thetis sinks. It's 353 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 4: in very shallow water. Literally at the for the first 354 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 4: few hours, the stern of the submarine is sticking up 355 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 4: out of the water. They can see it, they can 356 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 4: touch it, they can send rast to it, but they 357 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 4: can't get out the one hundred and three people crammed inside. 358 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 4: Eventually it does kind of reshift the stern sinks below, 359 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 4: but even then it's in really shallow water. The people 360 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 4: inside have underwater breathing apparatus, they should be able to 361 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 4: get out. Only four make it, and those four are 362 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 4: the best word I can come up with is bedraggled, 363 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 4: like they are in rough shape. They are plucked off 364 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 4: the surface of the ocean. One of them is actually 365 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 4: the captain of the submarine, which is contrary to a 366 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 4: lot of practice about the captain going last. But what 367 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 4: had happened was the crew inside was really scared, and 368 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 4: so he went early to be like, I will do this, 369 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 4: I will show you it's safe. So because of that, 370 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,959 Speaker 4: we know a little bit about what's happening inside the submarine, 371 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 4: we know a little bit about the air that they 372 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 4: were breathing, how these underwater breathing apparatuses work. And to 373 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 4: shorten a lot of bureaucracy, basically, the Royal Navy realizes 374 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 4: that they've built submarines, and they've built escape apparatuses, and 375 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 4: they haven't tested them at all in that application. So 376 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 4: they've got all these things. This is their plan A 377 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 4: and it is their only plan for getting out of submarines. 378 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 4: And they realized like, oh damn, we don't actually know 379 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 4: if this will work or if it will actually kill 380 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 4: you as you try to use it. 381 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: Oh, because okay, I see it's a fatal version of 382 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: leedle horse water because you can get the sub close 383 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: to the shore, but if you can't unpack this up exactly, Okay. 384 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 4: It's like they've led the horse the water, but they 385 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 4: didn't check to make sure the water wasn't poisoned first, 386 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 4: So the right just poison horses. So anyway, this one 387 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 4: guy living in London, he grew up in diving. His 388 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 4: name is John Burdon Sanderson Healthinge. He went by JBS, 389 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 4: so his first three initials. He grew up in diving 390 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 4: because his dad is this like or his dad was 391 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 4: this world famous physiology diving researcher. His dad was the 392 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 4: one that solved how to come up slowly enough so 393 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 4: that you didn't get the bends decompression sickness. So his 394 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 4: dad was really famous. But his dad just died the 395 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 4: year before. So now the Royal Navy has nobody and 396 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 4: they kind of start scrambling about. So this guy JBS, 397 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 4: he'd grown up in this environment. They had a gas 398 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 4: chamber in their home that his dad would test stuff 399 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:10,239 Speaker 4: on his children, including TBS and JBS's sister, Naomi, and 400 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 4: the kids were like part of the experiments. They were 401 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 4: helping run the experiments. Naomi was like in charge of 402 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 4: CPR if like a test, so too cassed out. Yeah, 403 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 4: and she was like twelve at the time, right, So 404 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 4: they they know this because it's been part of their upbringing. 405 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 4: So JBS really steps up. He gets a but of 406 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 4: his bunch of his buddies. JBS has been through two 407 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 4: wars before, he's been through World War One, he's volunteered 408 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 4: in the Spanish Civil War, and he gets a bunch 409 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 4: of his veteran buddies and they're like, we're gonna show 410 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 4: you what happens when you try to use these because 411 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 4: we're going to test it on ourselves in a safe, 412 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 4: controlled environment. So that's where I think the Maverick part 413 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 4: really comes in is at the beginning, there was nobody 414 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: even really asking these people for help. They just kind 415 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 4: of were like, I did an experiment and I got 416 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 4: the answer. 417 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: And this is desperate time. 418 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 4: Yes, I mean he was right. Like he was a 419 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 4: great scientist. He was a professor at University College London 420 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 4: and that's where he ran a genetics lab and that's 421 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 4: what he'd been studying, but because of his upbringing he 422 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 4: knew how to do dive research. 423 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 2: Did you say University College London? Has always struck me 424 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: as a little redundant. 425 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 4: He done that out, doesn't it? But like, so him 426 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 4: and his buddies do this experiment, they get these results, 427 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 4: and there's this dramatic scene where JBS is literally on 428 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 4: the stand during the Royal Navy inquiry to figure out 429 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 4: who to blame for this accident. And he got out 430 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 4: of the tamber at something like three or four am 431 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: that day and they're like, well, how much how much 432 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 4: would we need to manage the carbon dioxide in the 433 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 4: sub in order for people to survive? And he does 434 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 4: the math on the stand, being like this will take 435 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 4: me a few extrare minutes to still have a migraine 436 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 4: from these experiments like the night. So I'm not going 437 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 4: to do math while people are watching me do the math. 438 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 4: Like I need to be kind of like in my 439 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 4: office with a blanket. It's like a little hoodie and 440 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 4: you know, scribbling away and then you're a math yeah, 441 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 4: and then I'm great at it. I will Sam Crackerjacket 442 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 4: private math, but like in a court scene of real action, 443 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 4: supervised math. Uh, seems seems harder. So from that moment on, 444 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 4: he and his lab do become the go to for 445 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 4: underwater physiology questions. But what's even wilder is the allies 446 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 4: in general know so little about surviving underwater that they 447 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 4: don't even really know what to ask them to study it. 448 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 4: And so yeah, they kind of like he works with them. 449 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 4: They make a little shopping list of questions. And if 450 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 4: you read this list, it's wild because it is it 451 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 4: is everything. It is like how much oxygen is too 452 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 4: much oxygen? How much oxygen is not enough oxygen? 453 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 5: Do people have guilt? Yeah, because we could save a 454 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 5: lot of bit of money. 455 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 4: What about carbonaxid? It is literally like everything that you 456 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 4: need to survive as a human or need to avoid 457 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 4: to avoid death. And they're just like, can you work 458 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 4: on it? 459 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: So did they ask questions about not death but depth? 460 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 4: They did, Yeah, so that was on their list. They 461 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 4: still had questions about coming up from depth. So you 462 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 4: got to realize too at this point diving diving is 463 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 4: still hard hat stuff. So we're talking Cuba gooding, junior 464 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 4: Men of Honor. You need a giant ship. That is 465 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 4: what diving is as of nineteen thirty eight. 466 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 2: And we're talking like diving bell situations, like the giant 467 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 2: helmet's all of that. 468 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, diving bell is like a thing that the people 469 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 4: go in, so you're kind of inside of it. But yeah, 470 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 4: that or a giant helmet you're walking on the bottom. 471 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 4: But either way, we now have this island country probably 472 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 4: going to work with mainland Europe got people in submarines. 473 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 4: There's not a good way to have this surface applied setup. 474 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 4: And they also realized, like in the submarines themselves, they 475 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 4: don't really know how to keep people alive in them. 476 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 4: They've kind of just been building them and helping for 477 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 4: the best, like don't run the diesel engine while you're underwater. 478 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 4: Like that's about it in terms of how to keep 479 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 4: people alive in a submarine. 480 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: At that time, Can we ask real quick, Rachel at 481 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: this point, Okay, we've figured out part of the technology, 482 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: we haven't figured out how to keep people reliably alive 483 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: with this technology. 484 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 5: What was the reputation of. 485 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: The service members who might volunteer to hop on us 486 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: up if they were figuring this out? I mean, what 487 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: were the fatality rates? This feels very much like a 488 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: risky one way party. 489 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. So even now, if you talk to submariners, the 490 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 4: attitude amongst that community is very much that if something 491 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 4: happens to the sub they're going down, and they seem 492 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 4: to have like a weird peace with it, which I 493 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 4: understand from a personal survival standpoint, that's probably what you 494 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: got to do in order to go to work in 495 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 4: the morning. So I fully support that. But as a scientist, 496 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 4: I'm like, let me let me work on this for you. 497 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 4: Let me be back here working on that. But yeah, 498 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 4: at the same time, World War One has just happened. 499 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 4: There are all these German wolf packs. The wolf packs 500 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 4: have had crazy success, but we've seen the sinkings occur 501 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 4: in World War One and so World War Two. The submariners, 502 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 4: at least as far as I can tell, it is 503 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 4: very much their mentality that they go out there assuming 504 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 4: there's a good chance this is a one way trip, 505 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 4: accepting that fate and doing what they can for their 506 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 4: country anyway, which is pretty bleak, and I think we 507 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 4: owe them better personally, Like I think, yeah. 508 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 5: I agreed with that. 509 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: You know, it calls to mind the later stories about 510 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: helicopter pilots in Southeast Asian conflicts. In the in the 511 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: seventies who just made their peace. 512 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't help but see parallels with like 513 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: early space travel, like it, just in terms of the 514 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: level of unknown, the level of risk, the level of 515 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: like is this technology good enough? 516 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. One of the most common questions I get about 517 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: the HL Henley that's our civil wars up is do 518 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 4: you think they knew they were going to die? And 519 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 4: I typically answer that yes, but not necessarily in the 520 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 4: sub so, I think that when you have a time 521 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 4: of war, you have people who are exposed to so 522 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 4: much that they become willing to do whatever they can 523 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 4: to help end it and to help defend their comrades 524 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 4: in arms. And I think those become two really major goals, 525 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 4: and with that becomes a level of acceptance about the 526 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 4: risk because there's so much that they can't control. 527 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 3: I have a. 528 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 4: Buddy, he's become a buddy through writing. So if you 529 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 4: don't mind, can I give his like a book a 530 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 4: shout he doesn't please? 531 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: Do we also like to know his social Security number, 532 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: a social media Yeah. 533 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 4: I don't know his handles off hand, but his name 534 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 4: is Casey Oloff Tellison. That's kay A C. Why And 535 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 4: he wrote just an absolutely stunning book called Freaks of 536 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 4: a Feather and that's his memoir as an active duty 537 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 4: service member in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he talks about 538 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 4: the same thing. So that's why I quote him frequently. 539 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 4: He has a particular passage in there where he talks 540 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 4: about that same mentality of being like, I can't control 541 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 4: if I'll die today. I'm just going to go out 542 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 4: and do what I can. So it is essentially what 543 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 4: it came down. 544 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 3: To before the grace of God and all of that. 545 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Freaks of a Feather that it's. 546 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 3: A great title. By night, it's instantly arresting. I must 547 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 3: know more doing it now. 548 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: And this is this I think speaks to you know, 549 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: the commonality, the human thread that we see throughout so much, 550 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: so much of human conflict. Right there are people who 551 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: decide that, you know, what I'm going to do this 552 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: morning may likely be a one way trip, but I 553 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: have to do it. And then I'm glad we spent 554 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: some time on the perspective of these early submariners, right 555 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: who know the technology is it there? Can you imagine 556 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: the meeting where you meet your sea and they start 557 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: telling you the idea of a submarine and then you say, yeah, 558 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: so also, yeah, quick question here in the back, first day, 559 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: how do we get out? 560 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, it's fine. 561 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, but after the Thetis. So that was June nineteen 562 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 4: thirty eight, so obviously work comes for England faster than 563 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 4: it does for America by nineteen forty there in the blitz, right, 564 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 4: so they very quickly start planning for that exactly because 565 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 4: the Thetis event really shook the nation. You know, when 566 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 4: they brought the they recovered the submarine, they brought the 567 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 4: bodies out, and they put big sheets up to try 568 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 4: to block it. But like still everybody there knew what 569 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 4: was happening, and so there are oral histories of like 570 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 4: people from that coastal town just being like we just 571 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 4: sat there and watched, like we couldn't see everything, but 572 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 4: we felt like someone needed to observe this moment. And yeah, 573 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 4: it really shook the maritime community in the Royal Navy, 574 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 4: and so they immediately start building buring escape practice towers 575 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 4: and they start working with these breathing apparatuses and doing 576 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 4: tests on these breathing apparatuses which were a great concept 577 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 4: but essentially had just been taken from mining like coal, 578 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 4: coal mining, copper mining in the air, you have a 579 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 4: lot fewer problems to do with. So they had never 580 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 4: been fully tested at depth underwater, and it was that 581 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 4: added pressure that it turned out was screwing everybody up. 582 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: We were saying breathing apparatuses that hopefully, No, I'm not 583 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: the only person in the crowd tonight who's picturing something 584 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: vaguely canvas or steam punky. Can you tell us a 585 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: little bit about what these breathing apparatuses looked like. 586 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 2: I'm also picturing Frank booth from blue Velvet, kind of 587 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 2: like with like desperately from. 588 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,959 Speaker 4: Maybe go as steam punk as you can possibly imagine. 589 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 4: So my guess this is like before widespread plastic, right, 590 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 4: So the containers are made up but aluminum. They're painted black, 591 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 4: they're like corrugated, so it's corrugated metal containers. They've got 592 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 4: corrugated rubber hoses, they've got different types of breathing bags. 593 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 4: So this is before scuba. Jacques Cousteau was working in 594 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 4: Nazi occupied France, so the way these different groups went 595 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 4: about it were all they all iterated toward the same 596 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 4: end result, but they were all different. So they have 597 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 4: these breathing bags, so you breathe into the bag and 598 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 4: then it would get cycled through this canister. It would 599 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 4: add more oxygen, and then you would breathe that kind 600 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 4: of refreshed air back in. So when you're breathing, you 601 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 4: need oxygen at the right level, and you need to 602 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 4: get rid of carbon dioxide. So normally we do that 603 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 4: by just exchanging air with the world around us. The 604 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 4: trees handle the carbon dioxide part where that you tried 605 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 4: to yeah, thank you trees, and then there's just enough 606 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 4: air that it's not really a problem that needs active processing. 607 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 4: But when you get into smaller and smaller space, that's 608 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 4: why you don't want to breathe out of a plastic bag. 609 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 4: You're gonna run down the oxygen, you're gonna produce more 610 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 4: carbon dioxide. There's all of a sudden, no exchange happening. 611 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 4: So they were essentially breathing into canvas or leather bags, 612 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 4: but they were processing it with these canisters that took 613 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 4: out the carbon dioxide and oxygen bottles that added more 614 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 4: oxygen in. 615 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: Okay, And it sounds like you have to have a 616 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: specific let's call it a don't panic level of breathing 617 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: frequency right, if you breathe too fast, if you're huffing 618 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: in a hurry, would that mess up the apparatus? 619 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh my gosh, great question, Ben, Get out of 620 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 4: my brain. Yeah. So we've literally been studying this concept 621 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 4: since so that was a big part of my job 622 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 4: as a scientist. Is still and we've made advances. I 623 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 4: don't want to say that we haven't like but there 624 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 4: have been huge leaps and bounds. But these devices still exist. 625 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 4: So if you look out, if you look at rebreathers, 626 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 4: if you google the word rebreathers, you'll see the modern version. 627 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 4: So they're made with more modern materials. You're gonna deal 628 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 4: with anidized metals, and you're going to deal with plastics, 629 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 4: and you've got like plastic lined woven fabrics and stuff 630 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 4: for the bags. Plastic made those a lot easier. They're 631 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 4: now controlled with computers, but you still run into the 632 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 4: same problems that the human body is hard to modify 633 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 4: and it has very strict rules about breathing. Breathing is 634 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 4: the thing that will kill you first. In any scenario. 635 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 4: You get three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, 636 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 4: and three weeks without food, So you gotta pay attention 637 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 4: to the breathing far and away. Anytime you're going into 638 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 4: an environment where we don't naturally live as like caveman 639 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 4: style human beings, surviving underwater is a really big one. 640 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 4: So as soon as they start discovering that and they 641 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 4: realize how little they know, and they realize like this 642 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 4: war is coming, mainly Europe, they're going to have to 643 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 4: develop their underwater technology a lot more. So D Day 644 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 4: becomes the ultimate target. It starts with the thetis, It 645 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 4: starts with these breathing apparatuses. They progress and accumulate from there. 646 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 4: If they start building smaller submarines, like I said, that's 647 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 4: the submarine version of putting your head in a plastic bag. 648 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 4: So that takes work. They need to be able to 649 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 4: swim underwater on purpose. That takes work. And yeah, if 650 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,479 Speaker 4: you start breathing too fast, you can owe what's called 651 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 4: overbreathing your system, like you start to hyperventilate, and it's 652 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 4: the passageways may not be big enough, and it may 653 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 4: not be scrubbing carbon dioxide at enough rate, and all 654 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 4: of that stuff requires testing so that it happens first 655 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 4: in a lab where we can resuscitate people as opposed 656 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 4: to while they're being shot at on a Nazi occupied be. 657 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 5: This is the perfect segue to episode two. 658 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 4: A cliffhanger too, Yeah, cliffhanger like quant do Hawk sorry 659 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 4: do howk is one of the sites at the beaches 660 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 4: of Normandy and it's this straight up vertical cliff and 661 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 4: there was a big German armament at the top and 662 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 4: so some of the US Army rangers were signed the 663 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 4: task of scaling this vertical cliff as part of the 664 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 4: early assaults on D Day. So you can still go 665 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 4: see it. You can stand to the top. You can't 666 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 4: really go to the base as a public member of 667 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 4: the public, but like, it is an oppressive feat and yes, 668 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 4: so they developed a lot of like grappling hook and 669 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 4: rock climbing stuff to do that particular thing and take 670 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 4: out that battery. 671 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating to fascinating in a new small part 672 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: heartbreaking how much technological innovation comes from conflict, comes from war, 673 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: you know, and how much amazing it's also departs that 674 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: are now uh Rachel, As we reached the end of 675 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: the first part of our two part series on Chamber 676 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: Divers and D Day, we do have to confess to 677 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,760 Speaker 1: you that we have we have a selfish ulterior motive. 678 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: Noel and I are going on a. 679 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 5: Cruise very soon in October. We've never been on. 680 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 3: I've never been at sea. 681 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've not out a cruise like so this is 682 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: new territory. So that's why we're asking you somewhat oddly 683 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 1: focused questions about what can go wrong on the water praze. 684 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 3: It's gonna be fine. Say, it's gonna be fine. 685 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,959 Speaker 4: Fine if you're on the surface and you're breathing. There's 686 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 4: so many problems you've already solved. 687 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's the way to look. 688 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 4: Solve so many problems. You guys are going to be great. 689 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 4: And also like the more you eat, the more insolution 690 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 4: you have against another major problem that we will see 691 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 4: in Normandy, which is hypothermia. 692 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, we are actually going to do 693 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 2: a podcast about the Bermuda Triangle from the. 694 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 3: Bermuda to try what could go wrong. We're not tempting faith. 695 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 4: If they're technology clitches, I'm going to suspect they were 696 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 4: intentional on your part. I'm just sating you're giving. 697 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 3: A lot of credit here, but I appreciate that. 698 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 5: Hold the periscope. 699 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: We are making this, as we said, a purposeful two parter, 700 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: and we're excited to see how much deeper this story goes. 701 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 3: But deeper. Hold the periscope, Ben, You're on fire. 702 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 5: Thank you. 703 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 3: Better dunk you into some some water. 704 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 5: Thank you. So reaching a new level of depth. Terrible puns. 705 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, some people would say they're subpart look Lord, all right, 706 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,919 Speaker 1: all right, so big, big thanks to our returning guest 707 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: doctor Rachel Big Spinach, Lance and Noel. Just the energy 708 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,879 Speaker 1: and the knowledge here. I am having such a time, 709 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:09,720 Speaker 1: the passion. 710 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 3: She's a wonderful person. 711 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 2: She's an expert in her very, very niche and delightful field. 712 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 2: And we're so grateful that she she came to hang 713 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,879 Speaker 2: out with us for not one, but two episodes. 714 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: And here's a mark of character for doctor Lance. We 715 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 1: try spoiler at the end of our second episode. We 716 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: try to get her to say something bad about Jonathan 717 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: Strickland aka the Quist, and I suspect she was. 718 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 3: Just too nice to do so she won't do it. 719 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: Big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams. Big 720 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,919 Speaker 1: things to Alex Williams who composed this track. 721 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 3: Who else? 722 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 5: Who else? 723 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 2: Oh jeez, Yeah, Christophraciotis needs, Jeff Coates here in spirit, 724 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 2: Jonathan Strickland the quister, A j Bahamas, Jacobs the Puzzler, 725 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 2: and of. 726 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 3: Course Rachel Big Spinish Lands. How can we not thank. 727 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: Her again as we always do, and join us later 728 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: this week when we're bad with more from Rachel. 729 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,760 Speaker 3: We'll see you next time, folks. 730 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 731 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,280 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,