1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: I never told your production if I hear radios how 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: stuff work. Today we're talking about something I've been wanting 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: to talk about for a long time, ever and ever 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: and ever and ever and ever, and that is the 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: gendering of food. And this could be so many different 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: episodes because today we're mostly focusing on toxic masculinity and meat. 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: How daintilly you said that? Yeah, that's nice, that's how 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: we should say how we say okay um, But we're 10 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 1: not talking about Brogert Brogert, which is why the favorite 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: still just mind blowing every time you say it. I'm 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: like why, I didn't know what that was, and I 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: was like, what is happening and why? Well, that is 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: a fair question, but I don't have an answer to 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: broy awesome girt. That's how I can't. We can't buy 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: any like yogurt that is in a white like container 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: because a white obviously means girl, yeah or feminine, right, 18 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: it's too clean, So that the kind of those specific 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: products as a different episode. Right today, we're gonna be broader, 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: and this gendering of foods is pretty a pretty big 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: deal because it directly leads to health outcomes like increased 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: risk of heart disease, and when it comes to animal industry, 23 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: too much meat has negative impacts for our entire planet 24 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to global warming and sustainability. So pretty big, 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: huge yep. It also relates back to something we've talked 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: about before, the gendering of American political parties. Republicans are 27 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: masculine meat eaters and Democrats are a feminine salad eaters 28 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: or vegetarians or vegans. Remember all the push back against 29 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Michelle Obama's like Garden and her School unsinitiative? What is 30 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: she doing? Or against um a c coming for your burgers? 31 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: Are all the news around Corey Booker being a vegan 32 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: heaven forbid? And these are actual quotes from Fox News 33 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: about this a lot your freezers savior meat? Now, are 34 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: the Democrats really trying to take the White House on 35 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: a platform of banning meat? He wants to impose his 36 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: meat rationing on the rest of us. When you're eating 37 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: a steak and you go, no, no numb, that is 38 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: so delicious, What does Corey Booker counter that with? Can 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: you not do num num numb on any other foods? Not? 40 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: According to foxes only steak only stay, which seems kind 41 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: of impossible anyway, because you can't just gum it, which 42 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: is what nominum numb sounds like to me. Yeah, true, 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: too much, no, no, not enough For my own personal 44 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: brief journey with gendered eating. When I was younger, I 45 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: ate a lot, and I played outside a good bit, 46 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 1: but I ate a lot, and I was a chubby kid, 47 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: and me and my brothers used to compete at who 48 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: could eat the most. But then a family member told 49 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: me it wasn't lady like behavior. Like I said in 50 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: a recent episode, maybe you should shop in the maternity ward. Um. 51 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: They said, you don't want to get made fun of 52 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: because you're fat, right, So I became very concerned with 53 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: people thinking I was fat, and I didn't like being 54 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: seen eating in public, and I still have real issue 55 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: around it. Sometimes. Um, I didn't like to fill my 56 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: plate first in any situation. I would watch what other 57 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: people did and get less um. And when I did 58 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: eat in public, I tried to eat something like a 59 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: healthy salad because in my mind that was a feminine 60 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: food that women eat to stay thin. And I had 61 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: internalized all this misogyny, and then it like reversed when 62 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: I went to college, because I would order the biggest 63 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: burger steak when I was out with people because I 64 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: didn't want them to think I was like, oh the 65 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: other girls, that would be terrible. And all the while, 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: like when I was by myself, I was heating hardly 67 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: anything to stay thin, and all of that gender bs 68 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: um wasn't about what I wanted or what was best 69 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: for me. And in doing this research, I realized that 70 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: I've seen this play out my family in other ways. 71 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: My mom and I eat way more vegetables and white meat, 72 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: whereas the men and my family eat way more red 73 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: and processed meat and carbs. Right, I think I've seen 74 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: the same thing in my family, but in a different way, 75 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: in which because it was a family mill, no mill 76 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: was complete without some kind of hearty meat. Like for 77 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: myself and my mom, we could be happy with just 78 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: eating vegetables or a vegetable plate, I guess um, but 79 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: we couldn't just have that. No, I don't think it's 80 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: just my mom, but just in general that's fine with me. 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: But in my mind, because of the way I grew 82 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: up and my dad was the bread winner, meat winner, 83 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it. We had to have some 84 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: type of meat, whether it's just a hamburger patty, like 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: just regular hamburger patty or something along those lines. And 86 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: I remember if my mom was gone, which was very 87 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: very very rare, and my dad was cooking, it was 88 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: always a piece of steak. All he had would be 89 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: a piece of steak. And that's not even the salad, 90 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: I want to say. It was like steak and then 91 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: whatever else like chips that he could find. That was 92 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: the one thing he could actually cook. Only he can 93 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: grill too, but very manly ways. Yeah, and that's interesting, um, 94 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: when we'll come back to that a bit later. But 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: the whole like grilling, is the masculine of cooking. That's 96 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: that's the meat, all right. So first of all, transitions, Um, 97 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: all over the world, men have a lower life expectancy 98 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: than women, and there are a lot of reasons for this, 99 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: but one of the big ones for a lot of 100 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: places is diet. In general, women have better eating habits 101 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: than men, and the reason for that could be totally 102 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: unhealthy for a decent check of women. And you have reminder, 103 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: eating disorders and obsession about your weight both are not healthy, 104 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: but in general, right, women have healthier eating habits. In 105 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: the US and a boatload of other countries, researchers have 106 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: found that we associate bold, spicy, flavorful foods with men, 107 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and soft, sweet, and healthy foods with women. I have 108 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: found that there's a kind of similar thing with um 109 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: men being able to handle their spice and women not 110 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: so much. I've seen that play out. Um But okay, yeah, men, 111 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: this is all like stereotypical. But men eat burgers and fries. 112 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: Women eats out and fruit. Men eat pizza and beer, 113 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: women eat salad because all we eat a salad and 114 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: yogurt and wine yogurt throwing them It's true. Uh yeah, 115 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: these are generalizations, but generalizations we see play out a 116 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: whole of the time in our media, in our lives 117 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: that we might have internalized. I personally feel like I've 118 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: seen a million times in movies or TV shows when 119 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: a woman orders a burger around a bunch of dudes 120 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: and they're so impressed with her right look at her 121 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: that she eats cheeseburgers to sheats beef, and she's finn wat, 122 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: He's the perfect woman. And then you get like Nick 123 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: Offerman's bacon loving character on parks and rec being just 124 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: the ultimate manly man. Um. The Seinfeld episode where Jerry 125 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: orders just a salad on a date and both the 126 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: waiter and his date are horrified shows salad. The Homer 127 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: sipsen quote you don't win friends with salad, right. And 128 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: I know there's definitely a lot of sitcoms that says 129 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: the phrase man meat or like and they really mean steak, 130 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: not just and you win no sword, right, but literally like, 131 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a man, so as a man weekend, 132 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: we're having steaks and burgers and blah blah blah and 133 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: beer stuff like that. Nothing out of swords, right, nothing 134 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: outside of the two food groups meats and beer. I mean, 135 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: can I live that way too? I wish I wish 136 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: I could live with that way and not suffer very 137 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: bad consequences of death. Something that's related to this, though, 138 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: are commercials and burger commercials I find are are big offenders, um, 139 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: like way over sexualized women sexually eating burgers. Um. And 140 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: that commercial you know is not men for women, is 141 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: for men because real men eat burgers and all they 142 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: want to see is a girl on a car, half 143 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: naked eating a burger. Yes, correct, that's what I understand. 144 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: That's what these commercials are telling me. Um as marketed 145 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: to word men use over sexualized women to time meat 146 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: to sex all the time. One adrom Burger King had 147 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: a skimply clad model with a burger between her parted 148 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 1: lips and like she was lying on her stomach, so 149 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: it was profile and um. The caption red, It'll blow 150 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: your mind. Yeah, Taco bells men love Bacon campaign. Every 151 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: Carl's Junior ad that's ever been made, the Burger King 152 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: ad that featured X Men's mystique turning into a buff 153 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: dude after eating a burger with a tagline man up 154 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: of course, you know. And just the same with Carl's 155 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Junior and Hardies because they were one and the same essentially, 156 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: uh and Arby's. They use that overtly aggressive voiceover. Have 157 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: you noticed that what everything's like? And it always you 158 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: have to eat this kind of that. Yeah, that was 159 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: my impression of that, because that's all I could think of, 160 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: was like, and then it's so whatever the sound effects 161 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: the burger slams down like it weighs two thousand tons, 162 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: like it's a Trucker's right, I'm always like, why it's 163 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: hardy it's hearty and delicious. And I'm like, but it's 164 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: just fried air foods, frid aired, you know, that's why 165 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: do they go fries. There's no real you know, delicious. Still, yeah, 166 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: what is it? What is Rvy's We have the meats say. 167 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: Another study found people are more likely to spring for 168 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: unhealthy food if it's wrapped in masculine packaging, and they're 169 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: more likely to spring for healthier food with feminine packaging. Okay, 170 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: And that same study found that the exact same blueberry muffins, 171 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: one presented in masculine packaging, the other in feminine packaging 172 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: with the word healthy on both of them. Respondents reported 173 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: the one with a masculine baggaging tasting better. Mm hmmm, 174 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: because I think they assume it must be unhealthier even 175 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: though it's healthy, right, I don't know. People people, people 176 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: but with stricter definitions or differentiations when it comes to 177 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: gender are more likely to reflect that and they're eating 178 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: habits and choices. And one study found that even bringing 179 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: up masculinity or femininity impacted people's food choices. When masculinity 180 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: was invoked, people chose the less healthy option. The opposite 181 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: was true for femininity. And I know we've all heard 182 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: about the studies showing that male vegetarians are seen as 183 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: less manly men are socialized to eat meat. One Twitter 184 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: poll directed at men found that when asked what was 185 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: keeping them from being van fort responded with social stigma 186 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: and thirty nine answered masculinity. And we see that in 187 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: the terms sway, boy, I've never heard that term fortunate, 188 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: never good cell. It brings us to the question why 189 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: do we see meat as this manly thing. A survey 190 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: cross several languages looking into whether respondents thought of food 191 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: word was more masculine or feminine. Overwhelmingly, meat products were 192 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: associated with men. Almost of people labeled the hamburger as masculine. 193 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: The same research found that meters were seen as more 194 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: masculine than non meat eaters. And yes, men do eat 195 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: more meat than women, and women make up a majority 196 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: of vegetarians and vegans. And there are a few things 197 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: that play here, some of which go way back um 198 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: dominance and power over another creature, eating your enemy. That 199 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: whole idea In French sociologist Pierre Bordeaux described men as 200 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: quote the natural meeters meet the nourishing food par excellence, 201 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: strong and strong, making giving bigger blood and health is 202 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: the dish for the men who take a second helping, 203 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: whereas women are satisfied with a small portion. Okay, A 204 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: study from pointed to chemical signature on thousand year old 205 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: bones to trace the rise of the patriarchy. Yep, because 206 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: ten thousand years ago, as agriculture was on the rise, 207 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: men and women ate the same stuff. Researchers know this 208 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: from bone analyzes. But when the Bronze Age rolled around, 209 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: women were primarily eating wheat and barley and men were 210 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: on a steady diet of animal products. At the same time, 211 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: women's bones were buried with less treasure, which researchers think 212 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: is another indicator in decreased status when compared to men. 213 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: In more recent history, before women were allowed to work 214 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: and meat could be um an expensive luxury for working 215 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: class families, it was common for the men of the 216 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: family to get the first and largest portion of meat, 217 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: since he needed the strength for working. How that sounds 218 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: like the same idea doing like thanksgiving, the man the 219 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: house is the one that cuts the meat. Yeah, that's 220 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: always been a weird thing to me. I didn't understand 221 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: why that was such a huge Uh. Patriarchal thing that 222 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: needed to be done in staid. Yeah, I didn't know. 223 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: In my family, that is not how it is. My 224 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: mom carves. There's no tradition for us when it's carved meat. 225 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: Let's just meat. I just always thought that was the 226 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: idea of It made me angry. In theory, it's like 227 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: one last thing for my mom to do. But on 228 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: the other hand, she did everything else, so I don't 229 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: see why. It's like the man gets to present the 230 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: honor of Yeah, like this thing that you put all 231 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: this work into, Yeah, I'll take it in. I don't 232 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: know about that. Carol J. Adams's book The Sexual Politics 233 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: of Meat a feminist vegetarian critical theory debut and got 234 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: quite a lot of media attention. The cover was illustrative 235 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: of one of the main points of the book. It 236 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: depicts the back of a naked woman sectioned out by 237 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: parts like we often see for meat, you know, like ribs, 238 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: chuck around, The point being both women and animals are 239 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: marketed and consumed from her site. The Sexual Politics of 240 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: Meat argues that male dominance and animals oppressions are linked 241 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: by the way that both women and animals function as 242 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: absent reference and meat eating and dairy production, and that 243 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: feminist theory logically contains a vegan critique, just as veganism 244 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: covertly challenges patriarchal society. Patriarchy is a gender system that 245 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: is implicit in human animal relationships. An overlap of cultural 246 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: images of sexual violence against women and fragmentation and dismemberment 247 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: of nature and the body and Western culture exists. This 248 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: cycle of objectification, fragmentation, and consumption links Butchering with both 249 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: the representation and reality of sexual violence and Western cultures 250 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: that normalizes sexual consumption. Yeah. Actually with that, I was 251 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: when I was researching some of the things. One of 252 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: the articles that I saw, I saw had this whole 253 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: concept of masculinity and meet an animal protein to this 254 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: extreme idea like this that included that married women are 255 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: almost fearful of being vegetarians because of disapproval, rejection, or 256 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: even violence from men. Yeah, now that, now that you 257 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: say it, I have seen like kind of a joking, right, 258 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: you know for me, it used to be like you 259 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: don't smoke, do you? But I've seen it with some 260 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: of my well not really friends, but dudes in my life, 261 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: like you're not a vegetarian, are you right? Right? And 262 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: it is. He was like a disqualifier and it is 263 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: counted against you. And I could see that the extreme 264 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: level of any kind of violent relationship, this could be 265 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: one more excuse if you better have this as perfected. 266 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: This is perfection. Yeah, And I have been hurt and 267 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: to see because I have a lot of friends who 268 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: were like one of them is began and one of 269 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: them isn't or vegetarian, right, that's hard, hard relationship. I 270 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: definitely had moments where I when I was first really 271 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: into the dating world, and I was a vegetarian for 272 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. And I remember the first date, 273 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: the first thing that dude order was real was not 274 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: even asking me any like he knew I was a vegetarian. 275 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: We kind of already had this as a conversation and 276 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: he ordered that and I kind of looked at him. 277 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: I didn't have too much. I just kind of paused, 278 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: and he was, oh, you know, I just only ordered 279 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: things that I wouldn't cook for myself. And I kind 280 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: of just stared there and thinking, obviously, you have no 281 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: cares about my opinion because you got one of the 282 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: most politically incorrect meats and ordered it on the route. Yeah, 283 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: and just like enjoying meals together be difficult. My little brother, 284 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: in my view, very randomly became a vegetarian. But it's 285 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: because I don't see every often. But it happened over 286 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving when I cooked the Thanksgiving and it was like, oh, hey, 287 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm vegetarian. Oh no, no no, and just like um, yeah, 288 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: you forget all the things like yeah, well you have 289 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: to think about all the things that could be in there, 290 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: so stock or what's touched what I mean, that's really 291 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: important and and for those who are vegetarian or vegan, 292 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: you want to be respectful to that. And so you're like, crap, 293 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: what im I'm gonna do? Yes, um And going back 294 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: to the sexual politics of meat, a study did look 295 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: into the premise that all oppression is linked um here 296 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: specifically the oppression of animals and women, and it found 297 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: people who identified as more pro meat displayed a higher 298 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: correlation with sexist attitudes, and people with a more pro 299 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: animal stance correlated with a greater desire to shake male 300 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: female dichotomies like strict dichotomies. But the researchers were and 301 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: are quick to point out that um all the study 302 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: shows and is that these things are somehow related, and 303 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: that it doesn't show that everyone who eats meat as sexist, 304 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: because of course it's like the headline right right uh. 305 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: Adams's site is also full of examples of this whole 306 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: idea playing out during the Trump era if you want 307 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: to check it out, including a political pin called a 308 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: KFC Hillary Special two fat thighs, two small breast, left 309 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: wing and all kinds of ads actually do use terminology 310 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 1: like this. You can grab our buons, touch our breast, 311 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: things like that. Um. When Anne Alestio Parson published a 312 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: study finding a link between masculinity and me eating and 313 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: that in Argentina, male vegetarians were more likely to be 314 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: open to feminism, it's similarly got a very big response, 315 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: and when she was invited to speak on a talk 316 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: show on Fox, the male host bought out a steak 317 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: and ate it in front of her kind of proving 318 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: her points. Sheeez um. A recent study out of University 319 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: of Southampton found that for the three groups of male participants, 320 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: they all expressed a desire to eat less meat, but 321 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: that it was difficult without quote social permission, and this 322 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: study has gotten some criticism for its methodology, perhaps most 323 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: notably from author Baalen Lincoln, who cited the masculinity and 324 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: meat consumption trope and desire to make headlines. Another study 325 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: linked class and meat consumption, finding that when given the 326 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: option for either a beef or vegan beast burger, the 327 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: highest demand for meat came from people who rated themselves 328 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: at the lowest socio economically. And yet another study found 329 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: that men who felt that their masculinity was threatened routinely 330 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: added red meat to their meals. So there's a lot 331 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: of studies looking into this, UM. And I know recently 332 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: there's been that study about made headlines about veganism being 333 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: linked to white privilege. Whish I could see, right, And 334 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: that's that's true. That's we were talking about. You know, 335 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: me trying to be a vegetarian. It was really difficult. 336 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: That was one I was getting out of college, um 337 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: and changing and I needed to change my lifestyle anyway, 338 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: and this is a good way to go. And also 339 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: I had been reading some books and it was horrifying. Um. 340 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: But one of the things is because I could not 341 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: healthily do it. Part of that because I could not 342 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: afford all of the great ideas and in doing it 343 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: doing it healthy, because tofu was one of the things 344 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: that I could easily afford, but at the same time, 345 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: so much soy was causing a lot of disruption in 346 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: my body, you know, and stuff like that, as well 347 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: as the fact that I wasn't properly getting all the 348 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: greens that I needed and vegetables fresh vegetables are expensive 349 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: and it's absurdly so um and and because I'm with you, 350 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: I actually did read a column not too long ago 351 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: about how uh talking about being a vegetarian, talking about 352 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: being organic is a classic idea, and stopped stopped pushing 353 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: this as this is normal, this is healthy, this is 354 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: what we should be doing as a society. That's really nice, 355 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: that's a really great concept, but we understand us most 356 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: people cannot afford this. And it wasn't until the last 357 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: few years that even our system allowed for people to use, um, 358 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: the food assistance programs within this type of realm of 359 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: farmers markets and areas that you could get healthy options 360 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: that wasn't and and trying to stretch a dollar if 361 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: you can't afford it for a family of five, that's 362 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: almost impossible. Yeah, So yeah, I do have definitely seen 363 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: that I could see where they talk about but definitely 364 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: a classist idea for sure. Yeah. Another part of this 365 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: conversation is the idea that in our society we pressure 366 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: men uh to be more muscular, or that that's a 367 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: pretty big kind of pressure. Um. And to build muscle 368 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: you need protein, and we're told that you need animal 369 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: protein for that, which is not true. Um. Harvard's Men's 370 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: Health Watch found that quote red meat does contribute to 371 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: chronic disease and concluded it was reasonable to observe a 372 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: few meat three days a week. So there's a lot 373 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: going on here, right, yes, um, and we have even 374 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: more to discuss. But first we're going to pause for 375 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and 376 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. Alright, so let's talk about salads. Salad. Yes, 377 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: I haven't really excited to talk about salad. I'm really 378 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: hungry right now. There's all these tips and depths everywhere, 379 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: but no salad nor a steak. Look, I can't do everything. 380 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: That's true. You tried. I did try, Okay. So if 381 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: you type in women in Google's image church, one of 382 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: the first things you'll get, if not the very first thing, 383 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: is a woman Brunette White, laughing alone while eating a 384 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: salad having the time of her life. At It's like 385 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: she's she's having a wonderful time. And I enjoy my 386 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: fair share of salads. Oh. I've also definitely ordered or 387 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: made a sad salad to lose weight. I've done it, 388 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: and I cannot think of a time I was ever 389 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: that happy about salad. Wait, what's a sad salad? Oh? 390 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: Sad salad is like, you know, you got the water, 391 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: what's it called iceberg? Iceberg? And it's got to like 392 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: red around it and it's all walty. It's just got 393 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: no flavor. Is that it really? Yeah? Is it no dressing? Nothing? 394 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: What you do? You add carrots or a cucumber or 395 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: sometimes I add cucumber, maybe a celery. Way, it's always 396 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: delicious salad. Have you ever seen them? Me? Which one 397 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: a gift? Who was not in front of my salad? Go? 398 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: Look at us? Hilarious that we can a whole thing 399 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: like in front of my salad. And essentially I think 400 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: it was from a gay porn or something. I don't know, 401 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: because it beguns with When I looked at the whole thing, 402 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: I just saw that one was in front of my salad. 403 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: And then when you look at the whole thing. You're like, oh, hill, 404 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: oh there's more. There's way more to this. Co cool cool. 405 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: I remember um, back when Kristen and I we did 406 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: the video stuff, I'm never told you video series. I 407 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about the Kardashians and I all I 408 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: know is mostly from her some from Bridget But I 409 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: didn't know that on their show they just eat salad 410 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: in silence. Sometimes there doesn't mean on that what I 411 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: don't know? They did do that? And then afterwards was 412 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: not in front of my salad or in front of 413 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: my salad? All right, well go look at that up, 414 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: will I will in front of my salad? Um, I 415 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: will say, there's a picture of me that exists where 416 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: I am like on a beach in my bathing suit 417 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: and I have salad and I look like I'm having 418 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: a wonderful time. So I'm close. I guess I love 419 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: a good salad. And they're they're stepping up their game. Yes, 420 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: restaurants are, Yes, they are. They absolutely are. Um And 421 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: like we just said at the top, yogurt is another 422 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: big thing. You'll probably see a picture of a woman 423 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: eating younger, yes, perfectly labeled spoonful of it. Yes, yes, 424 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: And I've been in a video lampooning match that is online. 425 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: You can find it many treasures, yes, so they all 426 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: are out there for your finding. If you google men 427 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: eating results, you'll get a lot of results around images 428 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: of a burger steak. Burger steak. There is a tumbler 429 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: devoted to women eating salads and laughing or are men 430 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: doing it to showcase how weird it is? And I 431 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: quite enjoy it. So from now all and every time 432 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: I eat a salad, I need to be laughing. Yes, 433 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: can't be crying my salad. Not Well, you can be, 434 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: but that's a different that's a different name. Yeah, you 435 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: can salad. It's one of the things. You're either the 436 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: sad woman or the happy the sad salad or the 437 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: happy salad. There's no in between. And salad is frequently 438 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: dismissed as rabbit food. Um, it's seen as a food 439 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: of deprivation. Therefore, it's coated as feminine since salads are 440 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: seen as a health food, and as we've already said, 441 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: healthy food is solidly in the four women category. Salads 442 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: are women right When the salad first became popular in 443 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: the earlier twentieth century, they were much fancier and perhaps 444 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: less healthy like jealous salad um than we think of 445 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: them today, but they were still feminine. It was a 446 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: way for affluent housewives to show off all about the presentation, 447 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: the chicken salad, potato salad, all of those salads. An 448 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: article on courts comes with the title women, we need 449 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: to throw off the sexist shackles of the salad, and 450 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: it goes into how most salads marketed as the main 451 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: course don't have enough nutrition out of proteins, on of fats. 452 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: They are a salad salad um or there's a pretty 453 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: sexist one I found on Cosmo for teen things guys 454 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: think about your salad. One of them is great the 455 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: data is already over. Ordering a salad is like ordering 456 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: water at the bar. That's not even a real meal, 457 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: that's a garnish for another meal. My grandmother used to 458 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: order salads. Did you just ask for no crew times? 459 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: You're going to eat half my food, aren't you? I 460 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: know you sneak cookies at night. Okay, whether I have 461 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: had a salad or not, or a giant meal, I'm 462 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: probably still but it's still going to sneak some cookies 463 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: at night. Yeah, I'm just gonna say that that should 464 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: be in every front. That doesn't matter what it is. Like, 465 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: I just had a giant hamburger and shake. Let's go 466 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: get some cookies. It may not be cookies and maybe donnuts. 467 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: We do have a twenty four hour don't a shop 468 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: near me? So yeah, I might have recently ordered from them. Yeah, 469 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: I actually never had do nuts from there. I thought 470 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: maybe they were front slut. Oh no, I thought you 471 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: were talking about happy No. No, sublime is delicity, they are. 472 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: You're right. Um. There's another article from the Cut, sub 473 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: send us some doughnuts, please, please, dont too bad. Another 474 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: article from the Cut, called life is Too Short for 475 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: Work Salad goes into how women eating in public is 476 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: like declaring you care more about taste than appearance, going 477 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: against a norm. Heaven forbid. It goes into how men, 478 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: for the most part, don't worry about what people will 479 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: think when they reach for a second cupcake or a 480 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: second glass of wine. Um man, I'm really bad at 481 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: this whole woman thing. Then that's not necessarily terrible. Especially 482 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: these aspects of women are also under intense pressure to 483 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: be skinny, which pushes them towards food like salads. But 484 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: of course, of course, studies have shown that women eat 485 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: a few or calories when they are with men as 486 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: opposed to being with women, and that when told an 487 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: option was healthier and that didn't you know, healthy foods 488 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: are associated with women, they largely stopped going for the 489 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: healthy option. So if they're told, oh, that is a 490 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: women do that, don't Oh no, I don't want to 491 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: do that, then okay, cool um. And this all ripples 492 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: out to restaurant menus. Salads are secondary, not enough for 493 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: a lot of restaurants. There are only a few salad 494 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: options and not a lot of thought went into those options. 495 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: And when you think about the fact that still most 496 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: chefs are mail well, a majority of them are male, 497 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: and most menus are designed by men. Also, in the USA, 498 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: people associate healthy with not as good tasting, which is 499 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: not true for every country I know. In France it 500 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: recently reversed. Um. But this is funny because just because 501 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: something is a salad doesn't make it healthy. It's that man, 502 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: those dressings, those addends. There is nothing more setting than 503 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: getting a sad salad and eating it halfheartedly and then 504 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: finding out later that it was more calories than the 505 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: thing that is really disappointing. It is so upsetting. Um. 506 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: And I was in a movie that was semi based 507 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: on my life. I need I need more details. Excuse me. 508 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: Somebody wrote a movie that's kind of based on my 509 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: life and I was in it and I was playing 510 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: me but not me. It was very confusing, right, Um. 511 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: And there's a joke in that movie about how my 512 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: character slashed me only eats kale salad for lunch, which 513 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: was true for a long time. And I was like, 514 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: oh man, you love some good kill. You've actually how 515 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: much you like kill? Kale is in my top five 516 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: favorite foods, which is really weird that I know this well. No, 517 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: it's not. I know you pretty well, pretty well, and 518 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell anybody about my love kale. We had some kale. 519 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, I love kale And I 520 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: was like, okay, love kale. I do? I do? And 521 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: I did eat kale salad every day for a long time. Um. 522 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: And it's socially aptable for women to eat south in public. 523 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: Really yeah, I always think about the fact that there's 524 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: always something left in my energy. Yes, it's the one 525 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: unsexy foods you could eat. I know. And it's funny 526 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: because that's like the date foods you think of because 527 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: um over on our other my other podcast Saver, we 528 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: just did an episode on lobster and that's also seen 529 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: as a date food, and like, these are very dangerous 530 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: on sexy foods to me, Like trying to do corn 531 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: on the cob is sexy? Gave my heart accomplishment? Why 532 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: what's that react? I don't want to delve into corn 533 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: on the cobb being sexy. Okay um, that's too much 534 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: you have um. But yeah, I do have a lot 535 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: of friends of experience that same concern. But at the 536 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: same time, it's like I'll just have a salad. I 537 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: won't get bloated or whatever it is. Really maybe because 538 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: I made too many greens, because that that makes me bloated. 539 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: I don't know, this is what I read. I've never 540 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: really put conscious thought all maybe recently have, mainly because 541 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: I to eat a lot of vegetables. But I've been 542 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: really giving my kimchi back into my my foods of everything, 543 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: and I'm like, man, there's a lot of sodium in itself. 544 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: It was like, well, that's different than a salade. But anyway, 545 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: okay um, I still for me, I don't like eating 546 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: in publican because I feel like eating is something that 547 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: I should not be doing. This is actually something we 548 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: were working on in therapy. Um, like, I'm not thin enough, 549 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: so salad is a way to be like, oh see, 550 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm making effort. Um. It draws a little attention to 551 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: the fact that I'm eating as possible. I did the 552 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: same thing. I think if I'm eating fast food or something. Yeah, 553 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: I think people automatically assume, of course she's fast food 554 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: because I'm not, you know, very very skinny. So I 555 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: feel like everything's Also, we already know there is judgment 556 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: out there. When we talked about what's normal and all 557 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: of that, it's probably true for some people that they 558 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: are being judged, so therefore they have to do the 559 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: best to put on the show. Yeah, which again going 560 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: back here, I remember learning that the salad you get 561 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: at McDonald's are like just terrible for right, but it's 562 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: it's like a show. Um. That being said, I recently 563 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: have had some amazing salads and restaurants. Like you said, 564 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: I've had salads that were like the happiest of salads. 565 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: So I don't want the happiest of sal I do 566 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: love salad. I don't want to reign on salth parade. 567 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: It's just, um, don't be sad salad. You're good to 568 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: be happy salad. It's not sad salad. Okay, So I 569 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: think we've talked enough about salad for now. We do 570 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: have a little bit more for you, but first we 571 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: have one more quick break for word from our sponsor 572 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So what are we 573 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: do about this whole gendered food unhealthy thing that we 574 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: have going on? Um? Eat more meat, just playing not that. Um. 575 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: The whole thing is often viewed as a massive exaggeration 576 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: of the hunter gatherer narrative, which is far more complex 577 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: than what we typically boil it down to. I could 578 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: go into it but then be here for hours and 579 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: no one wants that. Probably maybe like four people want it. 580 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: But I mean we could just split it up like 581 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: we do. Yeah, yeah, we could do that. Um, I 582 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: thought for another day. Researchers suggest that we reframe how 583 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: we view food that we look at it as genderless. 584 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: For instance, cooking isn't masculine or feminine, but it does 585 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: the skill necessary for being independent. Ask yourself why you 586 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: are making a food decision and if it's because of 587 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: beliefs around gender, to challenge those beliefs, drink more beer, Ladies, 588 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: drink more beer if you want to, if you want to, 589 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: and it's healthy. Public figures challenging this notion is something else. 590 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: Researchers posit helps the fact that Samuel L. Jackson, for instance, 591 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: is vegetarian, or the football player known as the three 592 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: hundred pound vegan. We have to come into it so 593 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: rude because he's a big football player. Okay, so three 594 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: hundred vegan. Yeah, And according to one article, we'll see 595 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: how this goes. The UK Advertising Standards Authority has put 596 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: in a new role which bands adverts which featured gender 597 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: stereotypes that can be considered harmful or sexist. I am 598 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: very interested to see, right, and now that happened this year, 599 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, so we'll see how that has 600 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: played out. There is just so much to unpack here, 601 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: and until we stop associating femininity with weakness, and everything 602 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: coded as feminine, including eating habits and foods, will be 603 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: seen as less than something to be avoided. I really 604 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: could just talk about this. Very excited about this one. 605 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I'm very hungry. Now I'm gonna 606 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: have to go find a meat salad somewhere. Combined them good. 607 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: We're just gonna do a gender neutral all the things 608 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: and then combine the both gender nutual salad. Please, we 609 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you listeners. Um and in 610 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: the next episode, we're gonna be talking about the gendering 611 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,479 Speaker 1: of drinks if anybody wants to preemptively right in about 612 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm ready for that one. Yeah. You can 613 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media 614 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom 615 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. 616 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and 617 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You 618 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: the protection of I Heart Radios how Stuff works for 619 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, It's the I Heart 620 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your 621 00:37:51,600 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Zero