WEBVTT - How Stacey Abrams is flipping the script 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.120 What do you do when life doesn't go according to 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.719 plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.080 or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.720 is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.560 by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.800 with a guest to talk about the times they were 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.880 knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:33.040 Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:38.320 are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.800 every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.640 answers one question, now What. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.440 I will tell you one of the best episodes of 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.760 TIV that I always think about. You did an episode 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.080 of Law and Order criminal Intent. I did along where 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.880 you played the sort of metaverse of what people would 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.839 have presumed as you, but you had there's this moment 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.280 where you are so angry. It is one of the best, 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.600 like five minutes of television. It's one of my favorite episodes. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.279 Whenever it comes on, I'm like, this is the Brookshields episode. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:14.920 I've got to watch it. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.200 Oh God, well, thank you. That was so long ago, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.640 and that was one of the most difficult shoots I 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.120 have ever been on. And it was four in the morning. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.240 It was freezing. I waited. They kept me waiting all day. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.080 It was funny that when I jump in the water, 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.520 I had those little those chicken cutlets to fill out 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.119 my bikini top. Oh, and I dove in the water 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.760 and the chicken cutlet came out and floated to the top. 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:43.759 Oh my goodness. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.960 The director was like, you might want to put that back. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.400 My guest today is Stacy Abrams. Stacy is a politician, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.000 an activist, a policy expert, and a fiction writer who's 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:06.200 penned more than a dozen books, including her latest, Rogue Justice. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.720 I first heard of Stacy in twenty eighteen, when she 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:15.799 was the groundbreaking Democratic nominee in Georgia's governor's race. Since then, 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.959 I have watched her become a national political figure, an 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.520 essential voice in the battle against voter suppression, and a 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.440 true inspiration to millions of young people. She's had massive 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:33.600 wins and a few very public losses, but her resilience, intellect, 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.280 and dedication to her beliefs are undeniable. I am so 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.200 happy she agreed to join me, and hope that you 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.720 enjoy our conversation as much as I did. Here is 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:52.160 Stacy Abrams. Well welcome Stacy Abrams. Thank you so much 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:53.400 for coming on the show. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.839 I am honored. This is really a privilege. 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.320 Oh my goodness. I think the privilege is really, really, 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.760 really really mine. I always like to just start with 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.720 how you see yourself and how you would describe yourself. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.360 So who is Stacy Abrams? 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.480 I've once described myself I am a reality show waiting 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:21.120 to happen. So I've had this extraordinary opportunity to try 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.720 most of the things. I imagine my mom said, she said, 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.560 you don't want to be a jack of all trades 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.280 and a master of none. And when she said it, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.639 what she intended was Stacy kind of picked two or 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:38.720 three things. What I heard was master everything. That's what 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.640 stuck with me. So I've spent my life really trying 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.040 to learn as much as I can to do the 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.760 things I want, but not to just glancingly do it, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.360 to really dig deep and be good at it. I 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.120 think of myself as a problem solver, someone who regardless 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:58.760 of what the problem is, regardless of the field, regardless 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.600 of the issue, with the exception of dating, because I 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.400 haven't figured out how to solve that problem. I see 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.760 myself as someone who can find answers, and answers are 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.960 rarely in the first place you look, and so you've 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.480 got to be open to and able to look in 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.320 multiple places. And so that's how I see myself. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.960 What was your childhood like? What kind of a child 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:20.680 were you? In addition to that. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.600 I grew up in southern Mississippi. I am the second 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.080 of six kids. My oldest sister is three years older, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.200 so we're all very close, and we lived in a 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.359 small house, so we were all physically very close. My 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.800 mom was a librarian, my dad was a shipyard worker. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.200 We didn't have very much in material resources, but my 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.440 mom and dad were always very intentional about us never 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.480 feeling a lack of and the corollary to that was 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.920 that they also raised us with a very strong sense 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.960 of obligation that your job is to serve that no 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.159 matter how little we had, someone had less. And so 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.039 the lights might be off at home, but my parents 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.680 would take us to a soup kit to volunteer, or 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.320 we didn't have running water, but they were going to 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:07.960 have us volunteering at a nursing home because they never 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:13.440 wanted us to see our material space as justifying our 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.680 lack of obligation and commitment to others. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.680 Wow, and that's so. I mean, it's one thing to 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.640 tell your family and your kids to do this or 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.479 make them go somewhere, but to instill it in them 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.240 by example as well. Were they a religious Were you 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.560 in a religious household? Oh? 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:37.240 Yes, So my parents were both from very strong religious backgrounds. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.560 And indeed, when I was fifteen, my parents accepted their 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.719 call to the ministry and we moved from Mississippi to 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.480 Georgia because they both did their Masters of Divinity at 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.800 Emory University at the age of forty to become United 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.719 Methodist ministers. Working full time with six kids, my older 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.080 sister was the only one who was out of high school, 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.800 and so we never had the excuse of not doing 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:00.960 stuff because my mom were like, we went to grad 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.200 school at forty, so shut out. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.760 You're a slacker. What about your peers now, your peers 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.599 at that time, where they did they struggle financially? Yeah? 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.960 So where I grew up in Mississippi, absolutely, we lived 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.200 on South Street. But the way I describe it as 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.240 we lived on South Street and North Street, they got 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.760 really exotic names. The further the closer you got to 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:26.560 the middle class side of town, the fancier the names got. So. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.560 But again, when you grow up in a middle class community, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:35.120 lower income community, you're usually surrounded by people of similar circumstances, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:40.120 which makes those circumstances regular. But I what I credit 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.960 my parents for was that they never again, they never 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:48.359 permitted us to wallow. It was never a question of 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.880 what we had or didn't have. It was a question 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.919 of what were you willing to do, what did you 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:54.240 work for, what did you need? 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.920 Well, it's also that the type of you know, there 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.640 are people that define themselves as victims and it starts 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.760 to set the precedence for who they are. But kids 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.839 aren't born with that. So if they see there was 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.400 affluence because there was love and support and safety and 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:19.120 joy and education being truly a key to a future. 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.000 Absolutely. I mean for my parents it was very much. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.320 We had three jobs, go to church, go to school, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.800 take care of each other. I don't I will say 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.120 it this way. I know there are those who understand 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.200 their victimization and they hold to it. I don't think 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.240 it's inappropriate to know that you have been victimized or 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.320 targeted by a system because If you don't know, you 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.120 can't try to change it. The issue is do you 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.920 stay there? Do you stay clinging to the victimization as 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.720 a justification for not taking action, or do you use 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.680 it as a galvanizing force. My parents grew up as 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.520 teen during the Civil Rights movement, and they saw it 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.520 as a call to action. They were denied their citizenship. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.800 My dad was arrested when he was fourteen for registering 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.720 black people to vote, and my grandfather was conscripted into 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.480 the army for the Korean War and World War Two, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.080 but never allowed to vote in an election. When he 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.480 came home from fighting abroad, his kids couldn't go to 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.880 the colleges where he and my grandmother worked, and so 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:33.640 they had every right to acknowledge their victimhood and their victimization. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.920 But what they refused to do is let it define 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.560 how they would shape their lives, other than using it 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:44.880 as a galvanizing force and sometimes a roadmap to what 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:46.760 they wanted for the next generation. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.240 When do you think that you actually really saw the 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:51.679 system for what it was. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.400 Oh, I was very young. I was in first grade. 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:01.480 I was already reading, I was fairly advanced, and I 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.720 was bored. I was bored to tears in my class, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.000 and they wouldn't I get in trouble for reading too much. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.160 And it took another teacher to tell my parents I 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.800 was being held back because they were waiting for two 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.080 young white girls to catch up with me. And it 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.240 wasn't because they were worried about my socialization. I was 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.160 first grade, second grade and saw the same thing. It 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.400 was they didn't want the precedent of moving me and 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.000 not moving these other girls. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.319 That's unthinkable, but it was, you know. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.240 And I was. I was aware of the fact that 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:37.760 I was chastised. I didn't know the politics of it. 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.680 My parents found out and I was then very quickly 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.960 moved into the second grade. It was very scary because 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.160 no one told me what was happening. The principal came 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.000 and got me from class and took me outside because 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.680 we had trailers, and you know, only the big kids 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.960 went outside to the trailers. I'm the first grade, and 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.920 so I walked out to this trailer and I'm fairly 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.640 certain I'm going to die. I'm like, I don't know 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.680 what happened out here, but it's not what I'm supposed 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.840 to see. And then the trailer door opens and there's 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.719 this tall, beautiful woman who looks like an angel, and 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.800 the sun is beaming down because it's Mississippi and it's 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.080 you know, the fall. And she smiles at me and 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.720 her name is Missus Blakesley, and she invites me into 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.600 the trailer and I'm like, oh, thank God, I'm not 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:23.400 going to die. But that was how I moved from 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:24.439 first grade to second grade. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:29.959 That's incredible. I mean, you're you're clearly extraordinarily intelligent and 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:36.000 very smart, and you incredibly astute even as a little person, 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:42.360 and you've become a real role model for so many 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.840 women in particular and particularly young women. Did you have 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.720 any people that you really looked up to or icons 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.400 when you were a child that you. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.959 Taught you not necessarily? I mean they're my mom, of course, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:04.000 my dad, my grandmother and grandfather, my paternal grandparents we 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.800 were very close to. I got a chance to know 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.400 my grandmother, my maternal grandmother well, and my great grandmother. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.600 We called her Moomoo, who to me was the most 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.920 resilient human I'd ever met. She used to joke that 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.200 we would when we would be visiting her house, we 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.160 would watch baseball on the radio because she couldn't afford 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.439 a television. She was the daughter of sharecroppers, and even 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.240 though she had a television, you only turned the TV 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.960 on for like special occasions. But we would sit in 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.640 her front room and watch baseball on the radio, which. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.280 Was it's kind of amazing. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.040 It was just it was it was exciting and it 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.840 was fun. But I grew up surrounded by people who 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.679 believed that they were entitled to more, believe they were 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.600 responsible for working for more, and believe they should create 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.760 a path for others to get more. I knew about 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:02.720 the icons of the civil rights movement, icons and politics. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:04.959 I you know, I watched a lot of Dynasty in 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.199 General Hospital as a child, so you know. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.680 Those covered your bass I did. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.040 But what I extracted from it, and I think, you 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.960 know this, what you extract from your experiences, it's filtered 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.719 through your sense of self. How do I use what 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.280 I'm learning? How do I use what I'm doing to 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.480 solve problems either problems that I have, problems that others have, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.240 problems no one knows about. And there weren't a lot 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.000 of people who looked like me who were talked about 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.720 in that vein when I was growing up and That's 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.319 one of the reasons I've been so assertive about where 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.559 I stand and what I want because I didn't have 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.199 people who looked like me or came from my experiences 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:49.280 who could do so. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.640 Was there a seminal moment in which you decided to 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:06.160 pivot towards politics and how did that come about in 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:06.880 your life? 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.720 I saw it less as a pivot and more as 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.559 an evolution. So if you go back to solving problems, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.440 I think poverty is a moral I think it is 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.840 economically inefficient. I think it is solvable. And if you 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.559 look at all the pieces the facets of my life, 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.000 whether it's being a tax attorney or a writer or 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.600 an organizer, everything I've done in my mind is shaping 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.360 how I can tackle this problem because it has a 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.160 corporate side to it, has a public sector side to it, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.000 has a non profit side to it. So I've always 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.640 tried to operate in all of those dimensions. But I 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.760 reached sort of a plateau where the next set of 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.640 changes that I needed to see, I did my best 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.640 to get other politicians to do it for me. I 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.680 was their lawyer, I worked on their campaigns. Many of 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.480 them did what they could, but there were there are 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:03.960 institutional and structural impediments, especially in the South, to exercising 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.440 political power. And while I could get young people to 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.120 vote and worked on voter voter rights and democracy, I 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.560 could work for politicians and draft legislation. All of those 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:18.240 things had me as a supplicant to others trying to 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.480 get them to do and so standing for office myself, 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:23.360 whether it was when I stood for office in the 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.800 when I was a student at Spelman, or when I 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.120 ran for office in two thousand and six, it was 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.240 because I'd reached the inflection point where I could no 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.840 longer ask someone else to do it. I needed to 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.800 be the one to do it myself. And being the 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:44.040 candidate versus being the campaign manager or the supporter or 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.000 the lawyer was just the shift in where my role was. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.240 It was never a shift in what my goal was. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.200 Oh wow. And then so in twenty eighteen, when you 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.880 first round for governor in Georgia, there was a lot 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.080 a lot of the narrative really centered around the novelty 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.840 of you just as a candidate. But you'd had a 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:11.360 very long career before that. Were there any experiences that 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.720 you felt were extremely formative? 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.280 When I stood for a leader in twenty ten, and 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.280 I ran to be the minority leader or the leader 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.120 of the Democrats in the House days after we'd lost 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.920 every state wide election. We had fewer members in the 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.400 House than since reconstruction, and we were at the lowest 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.560 ebb of political power in our one hundred and thirty 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.840 in like one hundred and thirty years. And so I'm like, hey, 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.400 I want to be in charge of all this. I 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.680 want to be at the top in the nator. But 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.760 for me it was so critical because no one thought 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.080 you could do anything when you feel so exhausted that 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.440 possibility is almost extinguished. That to me is the prime 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.000 opportunity to figure out what's next, because you don't have 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:04.440 a choice. And coming in the caucus was in debt, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.440 the party was in debt. The following year, when redistricting 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.520 was done after the census, we lost even more seats, 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.680 and so I presided over an even smaller caucus than 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:20.520 I started with. And so it made me take all 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.640 of these lessons that I'd learned as an entrepreneur. How 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.960 do you take the little money that someone's willing to 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.480 invest in you and stretch it, as you know, as 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.520 far as you can how do you use the rules 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.240 that they've written to stymy you to your advantage. So 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.720 I would find rules that were written, you know, on 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.840 the capitol. I was known because I read every bill 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.600 and I knew what we could do and what we 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.320 couldn't do. And so every year as leader, I would 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.280 find some you know, hidden gem and use it to 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.920 bolster our visibility. The very next year they would change 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.680 the rules to eliminate it. But by doing that it 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.600 was so important because as an entrepreneur, I need to 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:00.680 do that. I needed to do that. As a writer, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.600 I could craft a vision for what I thought should happen, 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.119 and I could write our story. As a politician, I 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.119 knew how to talk to people and get them to 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.760 buy in to what seemed like an impossible task. And 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.600 as an organizer, I realized that you can't win elections 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.920 if people can't vote for you. So I work to 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.919 make certainly got more people registered to vote. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.000 Well, I mean talk about not taking no for an answer. 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:33.240 It's just it's miraculous that you know, what's that scene 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.200 when it's like dumb and dumber or something, and my 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.480 one it's like, I would never date you if you 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.480 were the last person on the face of the earth, 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.400 and you had and he's saying, so you're saying, there's 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.959 a chance, a chance, there's a chance. You know, you 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.679 just find that I'm just are yours are shocked that 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:53.040 more people don't think like you do. No, I don't. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.640 I actually I really don't think about things that way. 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.840 I focus on what can I control, what can I do. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.280 I've always jokingly called myself a stoic, and then I've 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.920 done more reading. You know, I've read Marcus Aurelius's meditations. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.000 I've given more thought to stoicism, and one of the 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.720 principles is that you can only live your life. You 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.440 can't do You can't make anyone else do or be anything. 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.360 I can't make people vote for me, I can't make 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.320 people like me. I can't make them hire me, I 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.520 can't make them date me. I can't make them read 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.920 my books. But what I can do is put out 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.879 the best product, be the best person, do the best work, 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.320 and trust that my efforts are sufficient for what I 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.720 can do, and then after work as hard as I 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.800 can to convince them that their choices could change if 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.000 they only knew more information. 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.520 So when you did not become governor in twenty eighteen, 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.520 which was shocking. And we'll get to the bigger issue 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.280 about voters. But with that attitude, how did that attitude 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.480 apply to what it felt like with that loss? What 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.200 did you say to yourself. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:08.200 That I didn't get the job, but the work still remained. 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.640 You're not entitled to win an election, but you're responsible 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.280 for the work you said you were going to do. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.760 And the work didn't suddenly end because my campaign ended. 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.160 And so I pivoted and created fair Count or sorry 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.160 for a fight, which was on democracy. Fair Count, which 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.639 actually focused on the census, because that harkened back to 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.080 when I became leader. And the reason we've lost so 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.439 many seats was that we had an undercount and the 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.960 census of communities of color, and so I made certainly 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.320 created an organization to improve the census. And then all 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.680 of this is because people want better policies for their lives. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.000 So I created an organization called the Southern Economic Advancement 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.760 Project or SEEP, and so I created this constellation of 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.320 groups to do this work. And that goes to my 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.280 point about the way I approached things. Yes, we have 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.040 different sectors, the corporate sector of the public sector, of 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.760 the nonprofit sector inhabit all three sectors, and it's disconcerting 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.840 to people who think, well, you should be here or 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.840 you were there. No, our lives are intersected by those sectors. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.440 Why shouldn't If they can come and affect me, why 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:13.720 can't I affect that? Well? 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:15.760 Well, also, you can't act. You can't live in a 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.679 silo and act in a silo because it's not as 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:19.560 effective at all. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.520 And there are lessons to be learned from all of 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.680 those places. There are lessons to be learned. There are 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:28.240 ways that things intersect and connect and influence that may 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:33.880 not be visible but are valuable. And so after twenty eighteen, yeah, 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.160 I mean I was angry for I like to say, 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:38.800 you know, I did the stages of grief and I 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.960 really enjoyed anger. I hunkered down for you. But then 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.199 I was like, Okay, what can anger do for me? 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:49.120 Anger can galvanize you or can paralyze you? And I 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.679 use the platform. I mean, it angered a lot of 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.920 people that I use the platform of failure to proclaim 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.359 a victory. But for me, victory is not about the 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:02.359 people who get what they want. Victories about the people 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.320 who don't know that they are entitled to more, that 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:08.959 they have the right to more. And so you know, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.879 I would go and talk to voters who were denied 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.160 the right to voter communities, who felt disenfranchised. I'm like, look, 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.880 we won. We made them talk about this, we made 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.879 them fight. That's a victory. It may not be the 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.480 seminal victory we sought, but it is a valuable one, nonetheless, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:30.359 because if we only measure our success by one ring 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.119 or one championship, we disregard all of the things that 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.080 happened in between. And for most of us, we're never 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.520 e get that thing, so that thing can't be the 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:46.040 only metric of our progress. 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:56.480 Now about voter suppression. That became a very impertinent fight 0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:01.840 for you, and rightfully so, you were directly affected by it. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:07.000 But how pervasive is voter suppression in this country? 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:13.720 It is wildly, remarkably and stubbornly pervasive. Voter suppression is this, 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.639 can you register and stay on the rolls? Can you 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.840 cast a ballot? And does your ballot get counted? That 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.600 suppression anytime the state takes action to impede one of 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.679 those parts. That is the definition of suppression. Now we 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:37.000 are used to in our historical understanding to see suppression 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:42.120 as someone physically blocking you with guns or billy clubs 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.000 or hoses. But voter suppression was also denying women the 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.240 right to vote until the nineteen twenties. It was denying 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.360 young people the right to vote until nineteen seventy six. 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:53.600 It was denying black people the right to vote. It 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.280 was denying Native Americans their citizenship in this country until 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:01.760 the twentieth century. It is close a precinct in a 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.399 county that is twenty miles wide when you don't have 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.639 public transportation. It is telling people that they can only 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.560 vote if you are a student. If you happen to 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.480 have a form of ID, you can't get because the 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.800 laws won't allow you to secure it. I don't have 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.960