1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Null. They called 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: want you to know. This is a two part series. 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to the second part of our two part 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: series on the idea of lobbying, which is kind of 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: weird and it's a big deal here in the United States. 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: In part one of this series, we explored the history 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: of lobbying along with a funny, if not completely true 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: legend concerning President Grant. We looked at the ends and 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: outs of this symbiotic, inherently conspiratorial relationship between lobbying, campaign 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: donations and quote unquote gifts. We trace the consequences of 18 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: that money as well as its influence on the final 19 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,199 Speaker 1: language of the laws that every person in the US 20 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: has to obey. In today's episode, we're going deeper and 21 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: just some of those lobbying scandals. We're gonna see what 22 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: brought us to the present day and perhaps most importantly, 23 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,199 Speaker 1: what this could mean for the future of everyone living 24 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: in the US and again, as we established an episode 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: one for everyone living across the planet. So here are 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: the facts. You know, well, this episode will make more 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: sense if you listen to part one first. But I 28 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: don't think it's a controversial statement to say lobbying is 29 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: rife with opportunities for conspiracy and corruption. Not all lobbyists 30 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: or bad hashtag, not all lobbyists or you know, what 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: have you. But there's simply too much money involved for 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: their not to be opportunities to conspire. Yeah, even in 33 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: what might seem like an innocuous sort of area like invite, 34 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, like you were talking about the last episode, 35 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: lobbying for environmental change, you know, positive things, there's still 36 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: opportunity and the need for poems to be greased in 37 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: both directions. You know. Um, it's very, very true. And 38 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: you know, to your point been, we're not completely criticizing 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: all lobbyists as individuals. Many of them are wonderful people 40 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: who are trying to make a difference. Um, and this 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: is not necessarily an outright condemnation of politicians or the 42 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: corporations of these lobbyists are trying to support the politicians 43 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: have become so reliant on lobbyists for campaign donations and contributions. Um. 44 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: But also it's important what they do because oftentimes we've 45 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: we've mentioned that these politicians are so busy and stretched 46 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: so thin without thirty minutes to give to somebody, and 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: that's all you got, it's going to go to the 48 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: one that's maybe contributing the most of your campaign, are 49 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: the one that can help educate you about some of 50 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: these issues. Oftentimes lobbyists are actually helping participate in the 51 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: process of writing laws. Yeah, more often than many people 52 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: would suspect initially. And the corporations technically speaking, aren't doing 53 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: anything illegal. But these same corporations also, it must be said, 54 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: influence the decisions about what is or is not legal 55 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: in a very real way. They are writing the laws 56 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: dictating their behavior. And corporations, we have to remember our 57 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: purpose built entities, meaning their goal is to be successful 58 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: over the long term. They are literally doing what from 59 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,839 Speaker 1: their perspective, if they are supposed to do. But it's 60 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of a conflict of interest. Right, if you're 61 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: writing the laws, then you have the ability to say 62 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: whatever you want is legal, you know to a degree, right, Yeah, 63 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: And that's one of the major criticisms of of lobbying 64 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: in general, that if you have that relationship that you 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: mentioned their well, where a lobbyist group working for a 66 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: corporation ends up writing the thing that becomes law, they 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: just right it to fit exactly what they need to 68 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: be able to do, and that part now is illegal 69 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, or the regulations are lessened to 70 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: a certain extent to where they can continue doing business 71 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: as per usual or make even more profit. Yeah. The 72 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: example from part one was, oh, it's my favorite example. 73 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: Feces and serial Right, there's some there's some corporation that's saying, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, 74 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: we have to figure out a largin of error for feces. 75 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: Are you saying we can't have any feces in cereal? 76 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: That's crazy. We're gonna need to bump up the allowable 77 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: limits make point five percent. Okay, Okay, I could go 78 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: as low as point four all right, but that's my 79 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: final offer. And that's how we got grape nuts exactly, 80 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: which is rat THECES as it turns out, and it 81 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: is a great example. You know, we've we've done so 82 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: many episodes on this show before we're lobbying and this 83 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: type of relationship and issue comes into play a lot 84 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: of times. It has to do with with environmental issues, 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: with deregulation of corporations to you know, be able to 86 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 1: dump a certain amount of waste into the environment because 87 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: the environment, Uh, some of the regulations there are at 88 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: a point where you can have a certain amount of 89 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: a toxic substance, you know, per million or whatever particles 90 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: or per billion particles, and then those those lines get 91 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: further and further until you know, a problem arises and 92 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: then you can just rewrite the regulation if you have 93 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: to write. And a lot of those, a lot of 94 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: the regulations that corporations will push back against when when 95 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 1: we're talking about the environmental sphere, they're gonna be regulations 96 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: requiring certain standards for storage, right, or they're going to 97 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: be regulations dictating where geographically this waste can be placed, right. 98 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: Not so not just the limit of how much you know, 99 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: how much of toxic substance X goes into your local 100 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: water source. The issue here is that The opportunity for 101 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: corruption in lobbying is by no means restricted to any 102 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: single industry nor to any single political party. It happens 103 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: all the time. It is happening as we record this episode, 104 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: and it is happening as you are listening to it. 105 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: It's how the sausage gets made. I have a have 106 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: a terrible hypothetical example for you, guys. Let's say I 107 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: tried to find something innocuous. Let's say we're all billionaires 108 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: and at the same time big fans of my little pony. 109 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: So Richard Branson, Matt Frederick Dole, Brown, Paul Mission Control, 110 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: you listening along at home, and me, your faithful correspondent, 111 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: we're all billionaires, We're all super into my little pony. 112 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: For some reason, we're the world's richest Brownies. And we 113 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: decide we want to see my little pony honored more publicly, uh, 114 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: for some reason in American culture. And so we all 115 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: get together, you know, at Sea Island or or you 116 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: know some other some other classy old money place. And 117 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: then we say, let's start a special interest group. Well 118 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: we'll call it Brownies United. And then we use our 119 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: gargantuan financial resources to do that. One to punch. We 120 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: described in the last episode. We donate a ton of 121 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: money two key lawmakers, and then right after that we 122 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: send an army of lobbyists to buttonhold them, and the 123 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: lobbyists find them right and get lunch with them. They 124 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: had that three PM meeting that we talked about earlier, 125 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: and they say, you know what's really virtuous, my little pony. 126 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: Let's emphasize the importance of this. This example will break 127 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: down because I don't know a lot about my little pony, 128 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: but it's good, clean fun. I'll tell you that, for 129 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: the good for the whole family. Great. Yeah, okay, So no, 130 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: you're gonna be our lobbyists in the situation, or we're 131 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: all agreed, and so are our lobbyists that we've hired. 132 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: Our emphasizing the importance of having Congress to clare August 133 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: two National my Little Pony Day. Fun fact that is 134 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: that is the real day. I looked it up. It's 135 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: just not official yet because our group hasn't poured millions 136 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: into the argument. So boom, we're successful. That's an easy 137 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: thing for congress person to do, right. We'll just declare 138 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: something in a national day. It doesn't matter whether it's 139 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: my Little Pony, or whether it's National Ray Bradberry Day 140 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: or National Muffalletta Day, you can easily get that in 141 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: return for those campaign donations. We haven't hurt anybody in 142 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: this example, but we have exploited a weakness in this system, 143 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: and we can do it again with many, many other things. 144 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: Can I just say, Ben, I love all three of 145 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: those things. Muffalletta is my little pony, Friendship is magic, 146 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: by the way, as the full official title, and Ray Bradberry. 147 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: You know I've given Muffalletta a chance many time into it. 148 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Is it the olive salad that's usually the kicker. It's 149 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: it's just too much. If it was if it was 150 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: like half the intensity and didn't take over the entire sandwich, 151 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: I would dig it. The the alive the olive salad 152 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: you're stre talking about, I knew that was going to 153 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: be it. It depends on it depends on where you go. 154 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: General Grocery in New Orleans is pretty much the gold standard, 155 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: I think, so I would say, before you, before you 156 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: fire Muffalletta entirely met, let's go to New Orleans and 157 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: check it out. But now I've had one in New Orleans. 158 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: The standard upon central grocery. That's a central grocery. That's 159 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: the one. Uh So, why is this important? Well, it's 160 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: because whether we're talking about environmental regulations, whether we're talking 161 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: about financial regulations, whether we're talking about Muffletta or my 162 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: little pony, what we just depicted is a blow by 163 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: blow scenario that genuinely does happen way way more often 164 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: than the average resident of the US might suspect. It 165 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: happens with tax law, it happens with monopoly or trust 166 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: busting laws, and much much more, everything from net neutrality, 167 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: which a lot of people forgot about, to abortion it's 168 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: touched by lobbying. The more cynical veterans in the field argue, 169 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: this does, indeed all go back to the money. So 170 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: I would say we're not at the crazy part yet. 171 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: I would say, let's talk a little bit about taxes. 172 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: Oh yes, let's taxes what we all want to be 173 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: talking about. Everybody wakes up in the morning and they're like, 174 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: oh man, I can't wait to think about and talk 175 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: about taxes. You know what I mean. I'm so I'm 176 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: so pumped that a third of what I do today 177 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: is going to going to go to something I guess 178 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: whatever they daign, you know, to to spend it on. 179 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: It's sort of like being a spending money on like 180 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: a new air conditioning for your car. It's like you 181 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: don't really want to think about it. It's not this 182 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: bad example. Let's just say new tires. They're the kind 183 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: of thing where that you just don't want to think about. 184 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: You want the tires just always work. I call those 185 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: adult purchases exactly because an adult purchases a purchase that 186 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: does not give you joy. So when you're a kid, 187 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, and you get you've got like twenty bucks 188 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: burning a hole in your pocket, you walk in. I 189 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: distinctly remember walking into Taco Bell with twenty dollars and 190 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: I was like, I was a king. You can buy 191 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: the whole menu for twenty back in the day. An 192 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: adult purchase is something that you feel like you have 193 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: to buy and after you do it, after you get 194 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: your tires, right after you pay your taxes or um. 195 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: What's what's another? Insurance? Insurance is a great when Matt 196 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: as a as a homeowner, I'm sure that you've had 197 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: some like associated house costs where you just a house 198 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: in general, just all the crap you have to put 199 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: into a house and onto a house, and under a house, 200 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: and above a house and around a house. Yeah, so 201 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: it's rare for people. What we're saying is, uh, the 202 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: it's rare for people to have spent like a ton 203 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: of money on a new roof and to walk around 204 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: going heck yeah, heck yeah new roof pictures in my 205 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: new roof. Would be surprised. Ask some of my neighbors. 206 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: I am constantly just walking around with my shirt off, 207 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: just looking at my house, going yeah, yeah, that's my house. 208 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: Look at that roof. Take a deep sip of diet coke, 209 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, the sweat glistening on your chest, just nodding 210 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: to it. Pour one out for the roof. There we go. 211 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: Maybe more people should model that behavior. But but we're 212 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: going somewhere with this, folks. Yes, the adults over at 213 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: the Sunlight Foundation found some things when they examined fourteen 214 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: million records fourteen million records from two thousand seven to 215 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. And what they found is gonna irk 216 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: you a little bit. Uh. Study indicates that quote for 217 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: every dollar spent on influencing politicians, the nation's most politically 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: active corporations received seven hundred and six d dollars worth 219 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: of value from the government, so one to seven sixty investment. Yeah. 220 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: I I also thought when when I was looking into this, 221 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: I thought that number felt a little off. So to 222 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: be to be clear, seven d sixty dollars worth of 223 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: value can mean a ton of things. It's an umbdollared term, right, 224 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: it's zoning, it's environment, it's tax laws stuff, it's in 225 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: the long term gains exactly. Yes, well said, and this 226 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: represents a grand total of four point four trillion dollars. 227 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: And if you were listening to this podcast in the 228 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: United States, uh, they should, these corporations should be thanking 229 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: you because that represents that four point four trillion dollars. 230 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: Like Matt said, from two thousand seven, two thousand twelve, 231 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: that represents two thirds of the six point five trillion 232 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: that taxpayers paid into the federal treasury. That's over the 233 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: course of those years. That's over the Yeah, that's not 234 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: one year, that's over the course of those years. But 235 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: still that's a ridiculous amount um And really what does 236 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: that mean? That means lobbying is a hell of a 237 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: good idea if you can do it, and if you 238 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: get the money for it. So you're going to say 239 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: a hell of a drug, but I agree with you. 240 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: It's it's it's certainly that. And we'll get into the 241 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: financials of it a little more later, like in terms 242 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: of like how is this benefiting corporations in terms of 243 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: their actual day to day economics, like how much money 244 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: they're taking in. But when we talk about the seven 245 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty dollar value of government value, I mean 246 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: this literally is all these things we're talking about, like 247 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, maybe lowering their tax burden for example, or 248 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: again reducing these um prohibitively expensive regulations, maybe some corporations 249 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: would rather have seen not exists at all. Uh So 250 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: there's certainly you could argue by saving money, they're they're 251 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: making money. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a really good point, man, 252 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: because that's part of what gets wrapped up in this 253 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: idea of value. And this all means that there is 254 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: an uncomfortable but valid argument to be made, and it's 255 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: this simply put our residents of the US getting what 256 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: they pay for in terms of taxes, or are they 257 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: all simply supporting corporations without their consent or without their knowledge? 258 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: And to be fair, obviously business is a necessary, vital 259 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: part of the economy and therefore the nation. So the 260 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: success of business does mean people continue to be employed. 261 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: But the question is how much control should these private 262 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: entities have over the laws that government country and govern 263 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: the people who live in the country plot twist. Critics 264 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: are asking that question a little bit less nowadays. Nowadays 265 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: they're more concerned with how much control these businesses already possess. 266 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: What are we talking about. We'll tell you after a 267 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Scandal 268 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: I like to say scandal. I think it adds a 269 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: little gravitas to it, but it goes. It goes good 270 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: when everybody says it. Can we all say it together 271 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: to one? Yeah, it's a thing. It's a very American thing. 272 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: Um I think is you know, from the moment there's 273 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: been government and business, there has been scandal. Yeah. If 274 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: lobbying is as American as apple pie, then lobbying scandals 275 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: are as American as baseball. Side note, apples are from Kazakhstan, 276 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: that's where originated. So you're gonna be a lot of 277 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: fun and parties. But that was about my apples came 278 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: from Johnny Apple seeds from the original Uh, you know 279 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: sees that he scattered so patriotically. Um. But it's true. 280 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: Scandals date back. These lobbying scandals date back to eighteen 281 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: fifty seven, when The Times of New York a k a. 282 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: The failing New York Times I'm just kidding, published an 283 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: expose a for lobbying the Pacific Railroad Bill. UM. I 284 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: think we all remember vaguely when the railroads became such 285 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: a big business to the point where they were absolutely 286 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: all kinds of backroom deals going on. UM. And this 287 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: bill was something that lobbyists were charged with having shaped 288 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: um in order to pillage federal lands and taxpayer conference. Essentially, 289 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: the House opened the investigation that led to four representatives resigning. Uh. 290 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: And they all so ousted the New York Times reporter 291 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: who broke the story from the premises like, you know, 292 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: I say, good day, sir. We're gonna have to ask 293 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: you to leave. Yeah, that's the thing. So they admitted 294 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: that something went wrong, and they opened the investigation. But 295 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: while they were opening the investigation, they black balled the 296 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: person who told the public about it, which sounds like 297 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: a lot of other folks in the House at that 298 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: time had their hand in the cookie jar of some 299 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: sort and didn't want to get caught. And also it's 300 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: a great point about the power of the railroads during 301 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: this time, you know, and rail is still very very 302 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: powerful because the US cannot exist without it. Yeah, very true. 303 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: Just to really describe this example a little more, it's 304 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: a private corporation that envelopes the interests of a ton 305 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: of other corporations, a ton of other interests because the rail, 306 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: what happens with the rail, where it can go, where 307 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: freight can be shipped, doesn't just affect the railroad itself 308 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: and the people who owned the trains and the rail. 309 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 1: It affects everybody that wants to be able to ship something, 310 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, let's say on the Pacific up and down 311 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: the coast there. So you can imagine if you if 312 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: you can pull pull money in some way. Let's say 313 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: you've got personal connections with a bunch of these other 314 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: companies that want you, as the rail to have more 315 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: ability to travel further. Everybody could pull their money this 316 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily what happened in this instance. But just 317 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: to keep this in your mind, imagine if every per 318 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: every private interest that would have you know, had a 319 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: stake in that being able to ship let's say, all 320 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: the way to Canada from you know, southern California or something, 321 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: or into Mexico. Uh. If everybody could pull their money 322 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: to lobby those the representatives they got in trouble there, 323 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: you could move mountains and literally in this case, I'm 324 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: assuming yes. And if the moving mountains, you could certainly 325 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: just last the tunnel, right, And that's that's true. I mean, 326 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: you know, some of some of us listening today have 327 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: family members who saw towns die, live or die based 328 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: on the path of the railroad. It is different. It 329 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: is tremendously difficult to estimate the total financial impact of 330 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: this industry in in the past, and uh it's a 331 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: little easier in the present day. But still, like you said, Matt, 332 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: they're part of the circulatory system, from part of the 333 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: nerve system of this country. I have a new tongue 334 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: twister I would like to introduce to you guys. I 335 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: want to see, Matt and only want to see what 336 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: you guys think. On a scale of one to ten, 337 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: here we go. Lobbyists literally write lots of laws and 338 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: give it a go. Lobbyists. Oh wow, I almost said 339 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: a lot lolliist, lobbyist, Oh my goodness, lobbyists literally right 340 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: lets of laws, lobbyists literally, nice guys. It's I respect 341 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: that I respect the gentleman's choice. Yes, no, it's true. 342 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: We mentioned it at the top of the show briefly. 343 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, Ben, does this mean they 344 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: actually draft the the initial you know, the versions of 345 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: these laws, and then you know, send them to the 346 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: lawmakers for approval, and then they're kind of like, okay, 347 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: well now I'm just gonna sign my name to it. 348 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: Is it that simple? This is something Matt and I 349 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: uh that I found out like in the YouTube days, 350 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: which was incredibly disappointing, because, Noel, you are absolutely correct. 351 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: Lobbyists don't just influence laws that are being created. They 352 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: also do literally write the bills, not all of them, 353 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: not all of them. But it does happen as in 354 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: word for word language kind of like college student plagiarizing 355 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: and essay from a Wikipedia article. You'll see the and 356 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: you know, you'll see language that is the entire speaking 357 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: point that's just inserted, you know, and somewhere on page fourteen. 358 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: Politicians are very well aware of this, and thank goodness, 359 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: some are furious about how extreme this practice has become. 360 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: Let's look at to Democratic Representative Daniel Killdee of Michigan. 361 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: He's quoted from a conversation he had with NPR. He says, quote, 362 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be as a result of an investigative report 363 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: by a newspaper that members of Congress find out that 364 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: a bill put before them was actually written by one 365 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: of the interests affected by it. What's he talking about there? 366 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: In this case? He is, Oh, he's discussing some reports 367 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: that the New York Times. Again. Hey, they they're just 368 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: helping us all out by reporting on these these messed 369 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: up things. Uh, New York Times and their Jones got 370 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: together to investigate final legislation of a bill that was 371 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: going to roll back this thing that we've Gosh, it's 372 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: discussed in politics, or it was discussed in politics for 373 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: a long time until it went the two thousand ten 374 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: Dodd Frank financial reform, Uh that went through, and the 375 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: language that was in this bill, this actual bill that 376 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: got presented was quote nearly identical to language suggested by lobbyists. 377 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: You know, I find it very interesting that both you 378 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: and the kids saying next to you both got nine 379 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: on this exam hold him upside. But wait a minute, 380 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: do you have anything you'd like to tell us, young man? 381 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: Have you read the new uh handhouse legislation from Wolves 382 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: for a Better America? I guess really out of the 383 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: box policies, you know, Yeah, as foxes and wolf clothing. Yes, yes, yes, 384 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: I don't. No. I went to wolves because I've been 385 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: I know foxes are the example there, but I've been 386 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: looking at some you know, I've been watching some like 387 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: domesticated foxes, some finic foxes, and aside from the absolute 388 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: unholy nature of their vocalizations, they're adorable. You know. If 389 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: you if if you could until they match you. Yeah, 390 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: if you could pet a fox on mute, you would 391 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of fun. But if you have ever 392 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: heard them, it's like just a step below Kowala noises. 393 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: If you've ever heard Kowala's fight, it's or like rab 394 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: rabbits when they're dying. It's like a death death scream. 395 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: Rabbits literally scream when they're being killed. One of the 396 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: best examples of this comes to us from a speech 397 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: or an anecdote, a little bit of an American fable 398 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: called the Story of mouse Land. You can find it 399 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: on YouTube. If you haven't yet, I'm just dropping the 400 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: link here. We can all watch it. It's a story. 401 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: This version is told by a guy named Tommy Douglas 402 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: in UH. It is politically charged, but it does I 403 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: think it does explain our points. So if you have 404 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: the time, do check it out. It is not uh 405 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: is not to my knowledge, made by city group, unlike 406 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: the laws. Sorry, so yeah, we didn't even mention that. 407 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: Do we mention it's city group that he was mad 408 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: at um, that that Daniel Kilde of Michigan was really 409 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: mad at The City Group is one of the major 410 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: players in the in this in this legislation, and they 411 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: had their lobbyists literally right the thing. That's why that 412 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: represented was so angry. And he ended up not voting 413 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: for it because he saw this conflict of interest, even 414 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: though perhaps there were some good things in that bill. 415 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: But it did pass, right, yeah he he, I believe 416 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: it did. He voted against it, but overall had had 417 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: enough support. And again it said, I just don't want to, 418 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, sound like we're picking on lobbyists because I 419 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: mean they do offer a valuable service. Again, sometimes these 420 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: are many times these politicians need to be educated. Um 421 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: in certain you know fields, maybe that that's not their 422 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: particular wheelhouse. Um. So they do serve a valuable, you 423 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: know role in government, but the relationship just seems so 424 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: cozy and weird and well beyond just the let me 425 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: educate you, senator, Um, it's much more like, hey, let 426 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 1: me write this law for you that benefits me but 427 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: also makes you look smart. In a perfect world, a 428 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: lobbyist that position would instead be filled by a third 429 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: party expert in whatever field that bill pertains to, think 430 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: tank of some sort, right, like, uh, you know, a geologist, hydrologist, biologist, Uh, 431 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: several other oologists get together and say, Senator or congress person, 432 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: this is what will happen if rates of contaminants in 433 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: the in the water sources go above this percent, and 434 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: therefore we recommend this. But the problem is those folks, 435 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: if they exist, are often drowned out. Well, at least 436 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: that way you would get a balanced view of here's 437 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: what business needs to thrive in. You know, in this 438 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: sector that this legislations are going to affect. Here's what 439 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, the human beings that live in whatever area 440 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: around where this industry is occurring. You know, all that 441 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you get to see it from all sides. 442 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: But in this case you're really getting just a vision 443 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: of the people that want to make more money and 444 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: the people that want to get elected. Yeah. Yeah, because 445 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: the election cycle never really stops. Uh. And there's a 446 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: good question. This is a dangerous question. But this show 447 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: is about dangerous questions. There there is a good question 448 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: about the efficacy of having politician that are elected for 449 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: two to four year terms making decisions that really come 450 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: into play decades later, right, and the consequences of that, 451 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: because you know, often those politicians won't be in office 452 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: when they see that, when the full ramifications of their 453 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: legislation becomes apparent. The reason that's a dangerous question is 454 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: because that leads that that can lead to some troubling places. Right. 455 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 1: That's one of the arguments for strong men. It's one 456 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: of the arguments for dictators. If you've ever looked at 457 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: a study of US Russian diplomacy, you see a lot 458 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: of different people shaking the head of the same guy 459 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: from Russia. That's weird, right, that that's strange. But anyway, 460 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: that problem aside, which does not have an easy solution, 461 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: we have another great terrified example of lobbyists literally writing 462 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: lots of laws. And that is al not Alec Baldwin. 463 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: Not Alec Baldwin. Actually, yes, the entire Alec Baldwin is 464 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: the number one example of corruption and always be writing laws. 465 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: There's you know, there's this is a group or it's 466 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: a is it an organization? And Ben, you're gonna have 467 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: to fill me in. I remember talking about this group 468 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: at length. Yeah, we did an episode on Alec. That's it, okay, 469 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: And that was around the time when Oliver, John Oliver 470 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: was brought it up. I think, God, man, my memory 471 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: is really fading when it comes to what we've covered, 472 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: what John Oliver's covered, and then how those two things. 473 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: I think he got there right before John. I think 474 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: so too. But yeah, the American Legislative Exchange Council, it's 475 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: a nonprofit organization. It's a lot of state legislators, typically 476 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: more on the conservative side, along with folks we could 477 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: loosely call private sector representatives, and like got in the 478 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: news and got in trouble a while back before everyone 479 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: forgot about it because they did exactly what Kildee had 480 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: a problem with in the City group example. Just like 481 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, these private sector folks, and these lobbyists 482 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: are going to politicians as subject matter experts and they're saying, 483 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: you know what, they just put it, put it this way. 484 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: You know what, No, no, here, I'll just I'll write 485 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: it down. I'll write it down for you. It will 486 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: still be your thing. Don't worry. It will still be 487 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: your thing, and your constituents will thank you. Um, you 488 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: might see some awesome campaign donations, but just be very 489 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: very certain that this is the language you use. So 490 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: the politicians you're hiring, and you're hiring them by electing them, 491 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: I'd argue the ones you're hiring to write laws on 492 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: your behalf, they're not writing their laws. Think of it 493 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: this way. What if instead of talking about electing representatives, 494 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: because I know that's a snooze fest for some folks, 495 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: what if instead of talking about electing political representatives, we 496 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: go to the example of hiring someone to drive a 497 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: car for you. I was recently out in the Boonies 498 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: in a rural area and I needed to I needed 499 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: to hop a car and it took me a while. 500 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: I could this is not the kind of place with 501 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: a rental car, right, So a rental car service, So 502 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: it took me a while to find an uber and 503 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: I was able to hang out with this wonderful, wonderful 504 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: old guy in in his f one fifty. It's a 505 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: very interesting life. I learned all about it because I 506 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: took a two hour uber ride, which which is weird. 507 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know you could do that. But Edward, if 508 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: you're listening, ma'am, thanks for checking out the show. So, 509 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: so imagine we're in this example, right, we all we 510 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: have instead of electing someone, we have hired someone to 511 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: drive a car for us. And this person we have 512 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: hired is supposed to like Matt, You've hired this person. 513 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: They're supposed to drive you and Noll to certain destinations. 514 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: And all you have to do is negotiate the specifics 515 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: of the route. Right, so you know, you know that 516 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: you might take a state road, you might take an interstate, 517 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: but at some point you're going to end up in 518 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, pick Keepsie or where do you guys want 519 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: to go? Where's your wallow Wallow Washington to wallow Wallow, Washington. Yeah, 520 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: so the specifics might change, but the end goals the same. 521 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: You can agree on that, but then you guys get 522 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: in the car after you've hired this person, after you've 523 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: paid for their services. You get in the car and 524 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: lo and behold, there's someone else sitting there. They're they're 525 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: writing Shotgun. In fact, you guys are in the back 526 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: and they're telling the driver where to go. They take 527 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: a different route then you had originally assumed they would take, 528 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: and you end up not in Walla Walla, Washington, which 529 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: is also fun to see, but in a completely different place. 530 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: But don't worry, Matt, Dole is still paid for the car, 531 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: and you still paid for the gas to In this scenario, 532 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: we paying for the car and the gas are the 533 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: the American people, right? Yes, So the driver is the 534 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: government and the shotgun writer backseat driver is the lobbyist. 535 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 1: It's Alec. It's just Alec. It's Alick Baldwin with those 536 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: dulcet tones. I would probably do just about anything Alec 537 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: Baldwin told me to. So welcome back to classic music 538 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: on NPR. I'm that's pretty good, Matt. That it always 539 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: sounds like kind of weirdly in every moment. I like 540 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: more things. I like to think of it more as 541 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: making love to me with his voice. Uh yeah, he's 542 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: got a quiet storm vibe for sure. So this I 543 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: know that's maybe an overwrought kind of comparison, but hopefully 544 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: it hopefully it is an impactful one. There are no shure, 545 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: there's no shortage of examples of this sort of corruption occurring. 546 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: Will pause for word from our sponsors and will return 547 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: with one that I think everybody has been waiting for 548 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: us to mention. Are you guys, what's one of the 549 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: best things we can do as humans? We can unite 550 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: against a common cause and uh be it. We are 551 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: all citizenry of the same country. We shall be citizens united. Yeah, 552 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: Lord of the Ring style. Yeah, So what are we 553 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: gonna do with that thing? Citizens united? What is that? 554 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: And it sounds good? Yeah? Yeah, citizens should unite? Right, 555 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: That's that's what countries are. They are citizens united, Uh, 556 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: citizens united. Fun Fact is also the name of a 557 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: conservative nonprofit group that challenged campaign finance rules after the 558 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: FEC Federal Election Commission. We've got an episode on them 559 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: after the FEC stopped it from promoting and airing a 560 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: film criticizing president the then presidential candidate Hillary Roden McClinton. 561 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: The problem was that the FEC said, you're airing this 562 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: hit piece and it is like propaganda, hippiece. You're airing 563 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: it too close to the presidential primaries, so you're poisoning 564 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: the well kind of Yeah, but I don't know. I 565 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: mean it was news, right, Yeah, it was huge news 566 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: because Okay, there were a lot of protections, Like, like 567 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: you said that the whole reason why this was even 568 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: heard by the Supreme Court, right that this that's why 569 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: it's such a big deal is heard by the Supreme Court. 570 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: The reason why it's such a big deal is because 571 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: the amount of money you could donate as an individual 572 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: or as a group was limited, and then how you 573 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: use that money during a campaign. There are all these 574 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,879 Speaker 1: rules of regulations you got to get around if you're 575 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: if you're an interested party, you've got a lot of 576 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: money of what you can do with it. The Citizens 577 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: United decision Citizens United versus Federal Election Commission, it really 578 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: did remove a ton of the protections that were in place, well, 579 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: I guess protections, let's say restrictions. It removed the restrictions 580 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: in place on people with a lot of money, uh, 581 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: who wanted to give to specific campaigns. It also changed 582 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: exactly how those groups could spend their money to influence campaigns. Yeah. Yeah, 583 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: So what is free speech? What is censorship? Right? This 584 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: goes be on the yelling fire in a crowded movie 585 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: theater example. This, this is the idea that um, let's 586 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: say Paul Michig Control decad is a billionaire and he says, 587 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: I I really want insert person here to be the 588 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: congress person for this district. So I'm going to donate 589 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: a ton of cash through one avenue or another. Right, 590 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: they'll take several different routes, but they're all going to 591 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: end up in Walla, Walla, Washington. And this Supreme Court 592 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: decision hinges on that idea of money is free speech 593 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: and money as just like lobbying, something protected under the 594 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: First Amendment, the redress of grievances. Right. There's someone we'd 595 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: like to introduce in the show today, Carl Evers Hillstrom, 596 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: who puts it this way. They have a great quote 597 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: about this. It's a little bit long, so maybe we 598 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: round robin it, but I think it's an excellent explanation. 599 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: Evers Hillstrom sets it all up this way. The decade 600 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 1: that followed was by far the most expensive in the 601 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: history of US elections. Independent groups spent billions to influence 602 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: crucial races, supplanting political parties and morphing into extensions of 603 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: candidate campaigns. Extensions of candidate campaigns. Just want to hit 604 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 1: that one home. He goes on to say, wealthy donors 605 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: flex to their expanded political power by injecting unprecedented sums 606 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: into elections, and transparency eroded as quote dark money groups 607 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: keeping their sources of funding secret emerged as political powerhouses. Yeah, 608 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: dark money, Where does he come from? Where does he go? 609 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: And he just a reminder, he's talking about two thousand 610 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: ten to two thousand twenty, that's when all of this 611 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: money was spent in packs, super packs and all the 612 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: various things that you can now donate your money to. 613 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: That then as a giant monster puts its power onto 614 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: the error or applies its power onto the elections. I 615 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: just feel like, um gosh, it just seems very cynical 616 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: and self serving to equate money with free speech, Like, 617 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: I just don't think they're the same thing. I mean, 618 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: money is a much more direct route to change into 619 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: getting people to do exactly what you want them to 620 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: do than just trying to make a good argument for it. Yeah, 621 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: So the issue at hand, I was trying to think 622 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: of a good comparison for this is that money and 623 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: speech are different things. People are born by virtue of 624 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: being human with a mind, usually with the ability to 625 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: speak or the ability to make their desires known. But 626 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: people are not automatically born with money. That is a system, 627 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: that is a belief system, like a religion that has 628 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: just been created by humans. The justices who voted with 629 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,919 Speaker 1: the majority here it was pretty close, is five to four. 630 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: They assumed that independent spending somehow cannot be corrupt, and 631 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: that this independent spending would also be transparent. Both of 632 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: those assumptions were quickly proven to be incorrect. Yeah, and 633 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of the people that ended up looking 634 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: at this thing afterwards, especially the political commentators, the late 635 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: night talk show hosts, the uh anyone doing sketch comedy 636 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: following Citizens United, Uh, everybody looking at it just saw 637 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: what felt like a major problem where you could just 638 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: now spend unlimited amounts of money if you had it, 639 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: to influence the way American politics functioned, from the from 640 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: the laws to the people that got elected. Just to 641 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: add to everything. Yeah, and this just opened the floodgates 642 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: for for lobbying, I mean, for for these lobbyists who 643 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: are you know. Again, their stock and trade is how 644 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 1: do I win favors and influence people? You know? And 645 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: then a big part of that is by contributing dollars, 646 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: real dollars to campaigns. And now it's more legal than 647 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: ever if I mean, there's there's no limits. When it 648 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: should be noted that it doesn't matter where you individually 649 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: lie on the political spectrum. This affects everyone because yeah, 650 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: people who who want the things you want and people 651 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: who want the exact opposite of things you want, or 652 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: somewhere in between all can do the same thing and 653 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: have the same influence. Again, depending on the amount of 654 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: money they can pull. Yeah, I read a report from 655 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: the Brennan's Center. They really hit home wherein they pointed 656 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: out that a very small group of US residents now 657 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: wield quote more power than at any time since Watergate, 658 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: while many of the rest, meaning the rest of American 659 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: citizens seem to be disengaging from politics, which means that 660 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: the idea of citizen and ship in terms of like 661 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: your responsibilities living in a country, your responsibility to vote, 662 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: your responsibility to pay taxes, or to you know, participate 663 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: in your local and federal and state level communities. That's 664 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 1: falling to the wayside for a lot of people, because 665 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: people are not stupid. People are aware of what has 666 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: happened and how the conversation and the process has changed, 667 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 1: and people have dealt with the reality that the average 668 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: person probably cannot afford a lobbyist. Well, and it's no 669 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 1: wonder that there's so much disenchantment around the political process 670 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: around does my vote even matter? Like it doesn't even 671 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: matter which side gets elected, because at the end of 672 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: the day, they're all having the same conversations with the 673 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: same special interest groups um in lobbyists, of course, And 674 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: that's why a big political platform for some to differentiate 675 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,760 Speaker 1: themselves from this is saying I don't pander to special 676 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 1: interest groups, and these lobbyists are you know, even Trump's 677 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: whole drain the swamp kind of attitude. You know, he's 678 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: I'm beholden to no one because I'm independently wealthy, and 679 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: therefore I'm going to make the decisions that are right 680 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: for the country as a businessman, as opposed to needing 681 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: all of that capital from these groups that are essentially 682 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: devil's bargains, right, because you couldn't have to hit the 683 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: chat oh big time. Uh relye dependent exactly so that 684 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: uh so the you're absolutely right, guys, mom, So I'm 685 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: talking more about platforms, not reality, okay, chat. So the 686 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: information here that we're talking about shows that this conflation 687 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: of money and speech is both a symptom and a 688 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: cause for growing wealth inequality in the US. A feedback 689 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,919 Speaker 1: loop has been created, right, and this means the conspiracy 690 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: is real. It is happening. The future does not look 691 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: particularly bright because there are a ton of very smart, 692 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: if a moral people who are in the game. Uh. 693 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: Some of the biggest players in the game now recently, 694 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: some of the biggest newest players are tech companies. So 695 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: ask yourself, how are you listening to today's podcasts. You're 696 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: listening through a piece of technology, right, through a platform 697 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 1: of some sort. It maybe Spotify, it, maybe I heard 698 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: maybe Apple. All of those are tech companies and they're 699 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: not even the biggest ones. We're talking about the Google's right, 700 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about the facebooks. They got money in that 701 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: free speech. Yeah, and they've also got cross hairs on them, 702 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: which again is also part of political kind of posturing 703 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 1: in some ways, you know, laming Facebook for spreading misinformation, um, 704 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, during the election being in some way responsible 705 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: for um, you know, disrupting the political process. Right. So 706 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: now they definitely and again there's truth to that. Sure, 707 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: is it nefarious? Are they actively trying to disrupt democracy? 708 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: I would argue probably not, but um, it's it's the 709 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing where you know, you let that genie 710 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: out of the bottle and it's gonna do what it's 711 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: gonna do, and sometimes even you know, the master of 712 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: the genie can't really control it. Um, you know, and 713 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: talking to U Zuckerberg, you know, like the idea of like, 714 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, this technology. While they're not you know, actively 715 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: trying to disrupt the democracy, there are symptoms that that 716 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: that arise because of things that maybe you didn't foresee 717 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: that allow bad actors to kind of get in there 718 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: and use the technology to do just that. But now 719 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: the tech company themselves are getting blamed for it, and 720 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: more regulation is kind of you know in the in 721 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,759 Speaker 1: the cards, um. And so they're lobbying up, you know, 722 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: and they're getting they're protecting their interests and it's becoming 723 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,120 Speaker 1: much more of like a thing where now we're hearing 724 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: about Google and Facebook and all these you know tech 725 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: companies that are very much concerned with these future regulations 726 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:15,240 Speaker 1: and therefore are spending tons and tons of money on lobbyists. Well, 727 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: they're just trying to make money old the way they 728 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: know how to make money, and then use that money 729 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,439 Speaker 1: to influence their ability to make more money. So come on, bro, 730 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, I'm being a little harsh bro. But no, 731 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: it's true, you know, but but this is this is 732 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 1: the same thing that all any of these corporations are doing. 733 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,959 Speaker 1: It's just very specific to the tech industry that now 734 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, for a while they were kind of pooling 735 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: their interests um and hiring these these giant lobbying firms. 736 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: But now more and more, these tech giants like Google 737 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: and Facebook, etcetera. Are starting to move away from that 738 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: model and uh, protecting their own individual interests because it's 739 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: less of a world on this together and much more 740 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: of a like, well, what's good for Amazon is necessarily 741 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: good for Facebook. They're very specific, you know, industries, and 742 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: so then they're almost I believe that, if I'm not mistaken, 743 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: they're like hiring their own internal lobbyists essentially as opposed 744 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: to outsourcing to these big firms. Oh yeah, yeah, because 745 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,280 Speaker 1: we're at are we're at a not quite a tipping point, 746 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: but we we are seeing a pattern that has precedent, 747 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: which is, there are these big companies, right and they 748 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: have a limited amount of space in their industries, so 749 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,839 Speaker 1: they want to be involved in these different aspects. You know. 750 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,400 Speaker 1: That's how that's how a search engine and a online 751 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 1: bookstore suddenly find themselves fighting about you know, servers, or 752 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,320 Speaker 1: fighting about who gets what piece of the pipe. For instance, 753 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: if you own an iPhone and you are on Amazon 754 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: and you're in the Amazon app, you cannot buy a kindle. 755 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: You can't buy a book for your kindle because I 756 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: Apple wanted a piece of that pie. They wanted a 757 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 1: piece of that purchase. And Jeff, excuse me, Amazon was like, 758 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: what No, And that's that's why you cannot do it 759 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: through the app. So these things do they these entities 760 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: do realize, like you're saying no, that they have conflicting 761 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,799 Speaker 1: interest and so there, you know, it's it's almost like 762 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: game theory. They've decided to find their own increasingly nuanced 763 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: needs specific representation. And in January one, uh current President 764 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,359 Speaker 1: Joe Biden signed an executive order invoking a two year 765 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,879 Speaker 1: ban on lobbying for political appointees kind of sort of 766 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: basically said, everybody signed an ethics pledge, and there's a 767 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,840 Speaker 1: ban on certain types of lobbying for two years after 768 00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: you leave public service. Door, which is difficult to do. Well, 769 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: that's the that's that's the idea. Let's say your tech company, 770 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,920 Speaker 1: like from our earlier examples, you want to hire the 771 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 1: best representatives money can buy, and you have a lot 772 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: of money, so you want to hire someone who's connected, right, 773 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,879 Speaker 1: maybe someone who just just got out of the got 774 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: out of public service. And now they're like you said, 775 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: met the revolving door. Now they're like, I wanna still 776 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: do the same stuff. I want to play on the 777 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 1: same court for a different team. I'm still just what 778 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,800 Speaker 1: it done. Steve's number in my phone here, I'm just 779 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 1: give him a call and we can have that three 780 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: o'clock meeting down at the country club. No problem. Yes, yeah, 781 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,399 Speaker 1: but this this is a problem, and it does seem 782 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: set to accelerate as corporate interest gain more and more 783 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: power over the legislative process, including as as you point 784 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,320 Speaker 1: out in the New Kids on the Block, the tech companies, 785 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,880 Speaker 1: they got into the game in a big way because 786 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: originally they were fighting against laws on aduta collection, monopolization, 787 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,800 Speaker 1: and so on. That is where the conspiracy stands today. 788 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: There are multiple nonprofit groups working to create more transparency, 789 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: and there are politicians of all stripes, of all genres 790 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: who are pushing for better regulations, although they do seem 791 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 1: sadly outnumbered in Congress. And they're also we have to say, 792 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: there are a ton of very ethical lobbyists. They genuinely 793 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: believe they're advocating for policies that will improve the day 794 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,720 Speaker 1: to day lives of people in this country and beyond. 795 00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: You know what I mean when we talked about special interests, 796 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: We're not just talking about you know, tycoons or the 797 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,240 Speaker 1: monopoly man characters of the world. We're also talking about, 798 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,719 Speaker 1: you know, people who need accessibility to public spaces, right 799 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about underrepresented folks, people have been marginalized. We're 800 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 1: talking about conservationist stuff, right, like preserving wildlife. So this 801 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: means that not every one is a bad guy in 802 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,240 Speaker 1: this story. There are tons of voters who believe also 803 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: that the US is a better place when corporations have 804 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,399 Speaker 1: more freedom. The argument is that regulation of almost any 805 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: sort will hurt the economy and therefore the people more 806 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: than it helps. Not everybody agrees, that's just that's the 807 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,640 Speaker 1: other side of the argument. And we have to realize 808 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,279 Speaker 1: that there are people who hear about corporations wielding this 809 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,879 Speaker 1: sort of power in the political process and they say, 810 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: all right, well, good, yeah, why not? Yeah? Why not? Indeed? 811 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,320 Speaker 1: Um do that? Is there an equivalent of this in 812 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 1: other country? Has been This seems like a uniquely American thing, 813 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: even though one of the theories about where the term 814 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: lobbying came from did come from the UK UH and 815 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,800 Speaker 1: Britain British Parliament UM or rather certain houses of government 816 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: UM with people you know, hanging on the lobby that 817 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,280 Speaker 1: like tug on the coattails literally of lawmakers. But what 818 00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: what do other countries do? How do other how to politics? 819 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,959 Speaker 1: In other countries possibly managed to make informed decisions without 820 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,880 Speaker 1: this massive BMF of an industry sucking off the teat 821 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,680 Speaker 1: of the taxpayer. Do you have an inquir that's how 822 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:16,400 Speaker 1: you do it. You have an into what exactly is 823 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,360 Speaker 1: going on with this book of faces and what needs 824 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,239 Speaker 1: to be done about it and what do they need 825 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: to continue profiting? No, I don't summon the paperwork is 826 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: that how they do it in parliament? They summon the PaperWorks. 827 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: And as if all these problems and plot twist weren't enough, 828 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 1: we have to remember we are living in the midst 829 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: of an ongoing information war. What does that mean? That 830 00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: means that foreign powers have eagerly swept into these conversations 831 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: to so dissent, to push their own agendas, and in 832 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:59,800 Speaker 1: some cases, to actively exploit the weaknesses in the political 833 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,319 Speaker 1: system as a way of circumventing international law and as 834 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: a way of weakening the US domestically and abroad. That 835 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: is a story for another day. Now, we we want 836 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: to hear from you, folks. What do you think about this? 837 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: Are you a lobbyist? Are you for or against lobbying? 838 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 1: As we said in part one, how on earth would 839 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:29,880 Speaker 1: you write a law that addresses corruption in lobbying, especially 840 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: when lobbyists write so many laws. So it's it's a 841 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,960 Speaker 1: delimit because you also can't limit people's constitutional right to 842 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: free speech in that way. You know, it's very very tricky, 843 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: and perhaps most importantly, what's the future of lobbying? What 844 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,040 Speaker 1: should it be? We would love to hear from you. 845 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,960 Speaker 1: We try to be easy to find online that's right. 846 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: You can find us on the internet. We are on 847 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,359 Speaker 1: YouTube at Conspiracy Stuff. You can also find us on 848 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,440 Speaker 1: Instagram where we're Conspiracy Stuff Show. Or pick up the phone. 849 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,319 Speaker 1: Why not just do it? Give us a call one 850 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. That's right, that 851 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,319 Speaker 1: is our phone number. You can leave a message. You 852 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,120 Speaker 1: have three minutes in which to do it. Give yourself 853 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,879 Speaker 1: a cool nickname or your real name, whatever you want. 854 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 1: Just let us know if we can use it and 855 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,200 Speaker 1: your message on the air. Oh and hey, while you're 856 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 1: on the internet, why not pop over to Apple Podcasts 857 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,759 Speaker 1: or your podcatcher of choice, preferably Apple Podcasts and leave 858 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 1: us a nice review. It helps people discover the show 859 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 1: and it makes us, you know, feel good about ourselves. 860 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: It's true. And if you've got more you want to 861 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,480 Speaker 1: send us, maybe a link, maybe an image, something substantial 862 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,360 Speaker 1: like that. Guess what, we have a good old fashioned 863 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: email address where you can send all of that stuff. 864 00:55:41,239 --> 00:56:00,200 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Ye 865 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,120 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 866 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,320 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 867 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,280 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 868 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,