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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Stefane never told you a predictive of iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 2: and we are thrilled to once again be joined for

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Speaker 2: the first time in twenty twenty four by the well traveled,

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Speaker 2: the well Rid bridget Todd.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I mean, not well traveled lately, but maybe

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Speaker 3: over the course of my lifetime moderately travels. Although I

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Speaker 3: can't really compete with you, Annie, you really get around.

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Speaker 1: Here. Your instagrams like took you all over the world.

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Speaker 1: You were traveling, traveling for the podcast world, So I

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Speaker 1: think you're that's understated.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I guess, I guess the entire year of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three. Maybe recently, it feels like in like the

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Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, I've been traveling from my fridge

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Speaker 3: time bed to my couch for sure. But that's really

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Speaker 3: the extent of it. That's about where we've been for

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Speaker 3: a while. Yes, so what a journey.

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Speaker 1: It's like you say, the last couple of weeks twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, that's been our journey, backyard, couch bed.

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Speaker 3: Where else do you need to go?

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Speaker 2: Well, we haven't gotten to see you in this virtual way.

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Speaker 2: We are working on some IRL hangouts soon. Heince the

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Speaker 2: discussion we had about traveling previous tour recording just now.

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Speaker 2: But how was your your Weirdo Christmas?

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Speaker 3: Your New Year's bridget Brido. Christmas was fantastic, as always,

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Speaker 3: Lots of bad movies were watched. We actually did a

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Speaker 3: special thing to watch horror Christmas movies. I didn't know

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Speaker 3: there were so many, but like ten out of ten, yes,

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Speaker 3: I would recommend. New Year's was also fun. I feel

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Speaker 3: like i'm a little I don't know. January is such

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Speaker 3: a weird time of year because you kind of start

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Speaker 3: and you're like, this is gonna be New Year, New Me,

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Speaker 3: and then but the second becomes January, you're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: turns out it's still came old me, and maybe that's okay.

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Speaker 3: It just feels like a little bit of a slow start.

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Speaker 3: It's been really cold in DC, snowing. I'm doing dry January,

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Speaker 3: so I'm sober. I broke from Christmas. I'm tired. Like

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Speaker 3: January is just a slug.

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Speaker 1: January is the hangover month. I mean essentially, whether it's

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Speaker 1: from like spending too much money, being around too many people,

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Speaker 1: all of those things just kind of recuperating, and it

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Speaker 1: does as any and I talked about earlier. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like January and February ends up being the

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Speaker 1: longest months of the year. Like we did an episode

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Speaker 1: and I was like, it's still January. I really thought

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Speaker 1: we had topped into at least February, and we're still

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Speaker 1: nowhere near. And I'm like, why does it feel like

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Speaker 1: we're in the middle of the year but we just started.

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Speaker 3: It is dragging. Maybe it's a sobariety.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about that life.

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Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, no, Well, we have done several episodes

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Speaker 2: about how neither of us are big fans of New

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Speaker 2: Year's so we're right there with you because I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's so anti climactic. You're like yes, and then

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Speaker 2: you're like, ah, this is kind of impressing. Do you

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Speaker 2: like look back on your past year and be like

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Speaker 2: I gotta change all this?

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Speaker 3: And then you're like, well, like can't really right totally?

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Speaker 1: That takes money and time, yes.

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Speaker 3: And then once the kind of so you have the

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Speaker 3: holidays and you're kind of like, oh boy, I could

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Speaker 3: really go for this being over the holidays end, and

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Speaker 3: then you're like, Okay, now I'm feeling back to the grind,

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Speaker 3: like holidays are over. There's just a thing that happens

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Speaker 3: after the holiday wind down kind of wears off. That

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Speaker 3: just is so, it's just such a slug. It's a

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Speaker 3: slog of a month, I think for everybody. So for

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Speaker 3: folks who are listening and maybe feel like they're a

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Speaker 3: little off, feeling a little weird z's, I think we're

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Speaker 3: all in the same boat.

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Speaker 1: It's true. It's also dark and again, as you said, cold,

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Speaker 1: and who likes the cold. It's not me Here in

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Speaker 1: the South. I prefer gold to hot.

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Speaker 3: But it is dreary.

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Speaker 2: It's like a and there's not like anything really coming

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Speaker 2: to look forward to. I don't look forward to like

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day, Like there's no it's just like, okay, I'll

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Speaker 2: wait a couple months for something sunshine.

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Speaker 3: Just hold on to St. Patrick's Day day? What is that?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a huge celebrator of Arbor Day. Uh well,

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Speaker 2: I have to say, you really came in swinging with

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Speaker 2: this topic, and I have I have been thinking about

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Speaker 2: this because I'm actually not on social media a lot,

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Speaker 2: but I have seen I feel like I'm one of

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Speaker 2: the only people I know and this I'm sure it's

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Speaker 2: not true, but in my circle that watches a lot

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Speaker 2: of YouTube and YouTube, there's something going on with YouTube

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Speaker 2: ads that I've been trying to make into an episode,

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Speaker 2: but I can't quite nail down what it is. But

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Speaker 2: they've become so gendered in a way that like isn't new,

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Speaker 2: but feels like, wow, we've gone this far back. But

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Speaker 2: it'll be something like, especially around the holidays, like, well,

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Speaker 2: my wife loves me, so she got me this thing

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Speaker 2: that she can use to make my life better, or

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Speaker 2: like it'll be from the wife's perspective and it'll be, oh,

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Speaker 2: I got this because my husband's been so tired and

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Speaker 2: I can make his life easier. So it's like gifts

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Speaker 2: that are all about him, but it's painted as if

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Speaker 2: she wants it too and she likes it too, And

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Speaker 2: I'm just confused by the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand. I feel you. I feel like lately

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Speaker 3: the Internet and social media has become this weird marriage

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Speaker 3: of gender roles and gendered expectations and commerce and capitalism

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Speaker 3: all kind of like blended into one where the only

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Speaker 3: kind of online experience you could ever really hope to

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Speaker 3: have around that is like buy this thing for your

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Speaker 3: husband to be a good wife. It's very weird.

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Speaker 2: It's bizarre, like and I've I've had moments where I'm like,

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Speaker 2: is this generated by AI? There's like the voices are strange,

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Speaker 2: it's very strange.

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Speaker 3: It might be AI.

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Speaker 2: It could be like there's one in particular.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I need to look into that.

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Speaker 2: I've I want to investigate what is going on here?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I've just sort of seen it. And so

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Speaker 2: when I saw this topic, I was like, oh, maybe

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Speaker 2: Bridget can illuminate something that I'm seeing in my specific space.

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Speaker 2: But from what you're seeing on social media? So what

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Speaker 2: are we talking about today?

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Speaker 3: So, if you've spent any time at all on social media,

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Speaker 3: you have probably seen what is called trad wives contact,

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Speaker 3: right have you? I guess any You're not really on

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Speaker 3: social media, but it does sound like you're getting a

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Speaker 3: little of this on YouTube. Sam, have you encountered any

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Speaker 3: of this in your time on TikTok So?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So we've had many conversations on the show about

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Speaker 1: the crunchy oh yes wives movement that quickly kind of

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Speaker 1: devolves into being a trad wife, as well as talking

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Speaker 1: about religious trauma and the how that plays into the

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Speaker 1: tradwife culture as well as the red Pill episode that

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Speaker 1: we talked about, because that actually jumps into tradwives as well.

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Speaker 1: Of course white supremacists and white feminist culture also goes

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Speaker 1: into that. There's so much to this, So definitely had

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Speaker 1: a little bit of research beforehand, and I definitely get it,

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Speaker 1: of course because of my for you page f yp

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Speaker 1: any just in case you needed to know, it does

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Speaker 1: made me the satire of tradwives and or stitching the

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Speaker 1: problematic things with tradwives. I don't follow any and I

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Speaker 1: would not recognize any by name necessarily, and I know

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Speaker 1: you're going to talk a little bit, but like Joe

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Speaker 1: Piazza actually was on the show and we talked very

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Speaker 1: briefly with her about some of the things that she

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Speaker 1: has seen and she is addressed also her because she

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Speaker 1: was coming around like Halloween after Halloween, and her just

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Speaker 1: amazing costume of playing tradwife as well. But yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: definitely a lot of content. I get a lot And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the family content stuff, which again aligns

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Speaker 1: with that when a lot of moms of TikTok used

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Speaker 1: their family content as moneymakers and to get to get viral,

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Speaker 1: and then of course the Ruby Frank case, which is,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Annie, Just so you know, just recently

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Speaker 1: a woman was convicted for child abuse and so much

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Speaker 1: more after it was released that she was abusing her

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Speaker 1: kids and she was using that content with somewhat a

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Speaker 1: business partner to make money off on TikTok and she

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Speaker 1: was severely abusing her kids.

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Speaker 3: So horrible, and she's just I think she might have,

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Speaker 3: like I know, she was in prison or in jail

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Speaker 3: for a while and then she was released and I

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Speaker 3: think flipped on her business partner and was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: she was the mastermind.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they flipped on each other obviously, but it was intense,

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Speaker 1: and the whole content is about how she is very

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Speaker 1: cruel to our children and how she punishes them by

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Speaker 1: not letting them have dinner. Was the beginning of everything.

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Speaker 1: But this type of content, which you have talked about before,

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Speaker 1: using children as moneymakers for content creation, but on that

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Speaker 1: same line with tradwives that have been popping up so

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Speaker 1: much totally.

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Speaker 3: So it is interesting that I think that you know,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about this mix of gender and commerce that

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Speaker 3: is so ubiquitous on social media, and I think You've

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Speaker 3: really nailed something that the depiction of motherhood and romantic

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Speaker 3: partnership that were shown as women on social media is

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Speaker 3: highly commercial, Like, somebody is probably making money from that

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Speaker 3: depiction in some capacity. So, for folks who don't know,

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Speaker 3: trad wives is short for traditional wives, and it's these

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Speaker 3: content creators who make content about ostensibly about the bliss

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Speaker 3: that they find in doing traditional domestic labor, you know, cooking, cleaning, sewing,

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Speaker 3: running a household. So I should say right off the

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Speaker 3: bat that like not all tread wife content it's created equal.

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Speaker 3: Some tread wife content creators just seem to be sort

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Speaker 3: of showcasing their lives. We'll talk about some of those,

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Speaker 3: but others seem to be more directly and explicitly romanticizing

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Speaker 3: and advocating for like this bygone time when women were

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Speaker 3: happier primarily in the home. So I did an interview

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Speaker 3: with Joe Piazza, who I'm so glad that she stopped

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Speaker 3: over on on y'all's pod too, because she is incredible

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Speaker 3: and hilarious. She has a podcast called Under the Influence,

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Speaker 3: all about influencing and women. So Joe actually makes it

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Speaker 3: very clear that this bygone era where women were so

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Speaker 3: happy to be staying in the home. Actually kind of

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Speaker 3: does not exist, right, It's like a throwback and a

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Speaker 3: romanticization of a time period that like did not actually

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Speaker 3: really exist for women, because truly, can you really romanticize

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Speaker 3: the choices made by white women at a time when

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Speaker 3: they could not even own bank accounts? Right, Like, it's

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Speaker 3: a little hard to be like, oh, well, our grandmothers

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Speaker 3: were just choosing to be in the household because that

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Speaker 3: was what was better. And it's like, well, she couldn't

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Speaker 3: have her own money legally, so maybe choice isn't the

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Speaker 3: right word. So I say white women because I'm a

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Speaker 3: Black woman, and we are explicitly not talking about Black

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Speaker 3: women like myself. Black women historically pretty much have always

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Speaker 3: done wage earning work outside of the home. Even if

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Speaker 3: we wanted to stay in our homes and not do that,

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Speaker 3: that really wasn't an option for us. Rose M. Krider

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Speaker 3: and Diana B. Elliott note in their report called Historical

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Speaker 3: Changes in Stay at Home Mothers nineteen sixty nine to

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Speaker 3: two thousand and nine that even black mothers with young

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Speaker 3: children were in the workforce following World War Two, when

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Speaker 3: many of their white counterparts had withdrawn from a labor force,

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Speaker 3: and in places like South Carolina, they even had on

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Speaker 3: the books that were requiring black women to have consistent

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Speaker 3: employment outside of the home. So I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: say that because I feel like when we talk about

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Speaker 3: conversations about who works and who didn't work and what

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Speaker 3: it's a throwback to you. I just think it's important

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Speaker 3: to note that we are talking about like one specific

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Speaker 3: subset of women, not all women. So I should say

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Speaker 3: I'm not an expert on tradwise. I did do a

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Speaker 3: lot of reading for this episode. However, I do consider

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Speaker 3: myself a bit of an expert on the internet and

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Speaker 3: social media, and I think there are a few key

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Speaker 3: parts of the conversation around trad wives and that kind

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Speaker 3: of online content that get a little overlooked that I

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Speaker 3: just want to make sure that we are all keeping

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Speaker 3: in mind when we're consuming this content and talking and

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Speaker 3: thinking about this content.

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Speaker 2: Okay, for listeners maybe like me who have seen some

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Speaker 2: weird YouTube ads but maybe don't know what is happening

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Speaker 2: on social media specifically, what kind of content are we

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Speaker 2: talking about here?

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Speaker 3: So, as I said, it is content that is like

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Speaker 3: women baking or sewing, you know, sometimes it's just like

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Speaker 3: a woman demonstrating what her life is like. So it's

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Speaker 3: like her with her kids making food, Da da da,

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Speaker 3: But some of that content is a little bit more sinister.

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Speaker 3: In this kind of treadwive content, women are exublicitly comparing

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Speaker 3: their lives and their choices to the lives and choices

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Speaker 3: of other women. I transcribed a TikTok that I think

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Speaker 3: demonstrates what I am talking about. So this is from

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Speaker 3: influencer Emily Allison, who describes herself on Instagram as counterculture

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Speaker 3: thinking child raising. I just want my kids to grow

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Speaker 3: up in a free country. So I'm going to read

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Speaker 3: what she says in her TikTok and just kind of

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Speaker 3: imagine that, like they're sort of cute, smarmy guitar music

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Speaker 3: playing under this, because that's what the TikTok is like,

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Speaker 3: and that my narration is synced up to videos of

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Speaker 3: me wearing prairie dresses and like cooking and playing with

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Speaker 3: my kids. Okay, here we go. Our culture tells women

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Speaker 3: that it's honorable to sacrifice everything for your job, but

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Speaker 3: it's unfair to sacrifice everything for your family. That it's

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Speaker 3: liberating to be sexually used by men who are not

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Speaker 3: committed to you. But it's oppressive to love and respect

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Speaker 3: a man who is that it's somehow empowering to rely

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Speaker 3: on the system to educate your kids, feed your family,

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Speaker 3: and keep you alive rather than have the skills to

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Speaker 3: do it yourself. I say that culture is full of lies.

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Speaker 3: So that's just me like reading a word for word

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Speaker 3: transcript of what this person has to say. First of all,

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Speaker 3: you might think from that transcript that this person does

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Speaker 3: not do wage earning work because she is too busy

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Speaker 3: like focusing on her family. However, according to her Instagram bio,

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Speaker 3: it says that she is a writer for the far

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Speaker 3: right website Epo Times, so she actually does have a job,

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Speaker 3: but she just wants to let us know that she

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Speaker 3: has a job in a way that is like different

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Speaker 3: and better than everybody else who has a job. Like

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Speaker 3: I don't know what y'all are doing, but like when

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Speaker 3: I have a job, it's better. When you have a job,

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Speaker 3: you are making a mistake and turning your back on

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Speaker 3: your family. So just so you know I'm doing it right,

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Speaker 3: y'all are doing it wrong. So I think this content

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Speaker 3: is a good example of what I'm talking about. Right Like,

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Speaker 3: if Emily is so content with her with her life,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't think that somebody who is super

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Speaker 3: content would feel the need to really compare their choices

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Speaker 3: and their life to the choices in life of somebody

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Speaker 3: that they don't even necessarily know, right Like, there is

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Speaker 3: something about the content that I think is meant to enrage,

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Speaker 3: meant to make people feel a certain kind of way.

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Speaker 3: Do you all see this? Or am I way off basier?

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Speaker 1: Well, the minute you said that she was for a

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Speaker 1: writer for the far right news article, I think that

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Speaker 1: again kind of coming back to what we were talking about

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Speaker 1: with red pill slash white supremacy. This level of indoctrination

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Speaker 1: is the Maga world. And I doubt we have any

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Speaker 1: Maga listeners. But if you're offended, you essentially like if

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Speaker 1: it sounds offensive, but it's actually true because there's this

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Speaker 1: whole underlying level of creating more white babies. And I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming this one woman is a white woman and in

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Speaker 1: this whole culture of go against the zeit guys, which

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Speaker 1: now the Zeit guys is too liberal, which is that

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Speaker 1: you know, in their in their mind of course, in

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Speaker 1: this conversation, which is again what we were really like

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Speaker 1: every time I would go down this rabbit hole of

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Speaker 1: anything tradwives, anything crunchy moms situation, it gets very succinct

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Speaker 1: to this ideal of moms protecting white children or the

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Speaker 1: white community in itself. In this level of that has

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Speaker 1: to be also meaning that we're rebellious against the norm

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Speaker 1: and those are the devils who you know, this level

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Speaker 1: of conversation, it's like, yeah, this makes perfect sense, and

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Speaker 1: that guitar playing is you're supposed to think this is

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Speaker 1: a Midwestern family out in the cornfields in their dresses,

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Speaker 1: having the perfect little like dinner at the tables, but

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Speaker 1: that they have obviously gardened themselves because they don't trust

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Speaker 1: the government or the fertilizer and you know, wore these

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Speaker 1: clothes that they have made themselves, as well as the

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Speaker 1: fact that you know they don't do doctors, none of that.

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Speaker 1: Like this level of ideal of the perfect life that

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Speaker 1: kind of also insinuates by the perfect light means you

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Speaker 1: have to be white.

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Speaker 3: A thousand percent. And something that you picked up on

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Speaker 3: that I really want to pull out is how so

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Speaker 3: much of this content also sort of has this almost

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Speaker 3: like faux persecution angle to it, like they don't want

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Speaker 3: me to be submissive to my husband, who like they

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Speaker 3: don't want me making homemade meals. It's like, who are

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Speaker 3: you talking about that is preventing you from doing this?

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Speaker 3: This is something that I've noticed a lot. It's almost

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Speaker 3: like these people want to be persecuted or like victimized

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Speaker 3: in some way, and they really they're so committed to

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Speaker 3: wanting to feel like they're going against the grain and

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Speaker 3: challenging norms that they have made that into an identity

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Speaker 3: and they've kind of like built it up that everything

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Speaker 3: they do is like being challenged. Everything they do, like

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Speaker 3: they don't want me to grow my own food, And

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Speaker 3: it's like who, Like who is preventing you from doing

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Speaker 3: this if that's what you want to do, right, I've

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Speaker 3: seen so many people say like make it seem as

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Speaker 3: though there's some sort of feminist conspiracy to keep women

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Speaker 3: from staying at home and not doing way durning work.

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Speaker 3: And I, I mean I would if I could afford

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Speaker 3: to comfortably do that. I think I would love to

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Speaker 3: do it, right. I think a lot of people would

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Speaker 3: love to do that. But like what people are saying

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Speaker 3: is like, yeah, you should have choice to do what

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Speaker 3: you do whatever you want to do, and what they're

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Speaker 3: hearing is like, they're not letting me stay at home.

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Speaker 3: Where where are these people who are preventing women from

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Speaker 3: like staying at home with their families. That that's what

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Speaker 3: they want to do.

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Speaker 1: That's called capitalism, babe in it. This sucks for everybody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're all we're all dealing with the same we're

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Speaker 3: all suffering.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think that's that conversation again, this

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Speaker 1: whole like they won't let me do this thing, or

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Speaker 1: they won't let me do that thing. And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of that conversation you were talking about earlier where black

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Speaker 1: women were pretty much excluded from the white feminist movement

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Speaker 1: because they did not listen to the fact that black

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Speaker 1: women have been working, Women of color have been working

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Speaker 1: the entirety of their existence from jump because they had

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Speaker 1: no other choice, that the fact that they want to

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Speaker 1: go to work and women should be they're not listening

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Speaker 1: to the other side of what feminism should look like.

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Speaker 1: And that conversation is that it's the choice right, the

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Speaker 1: choice to do what you whether it is to be

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Speaker 1: a stay at home mom and to have whatever balanced

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Speaker 1: life that you want. If you agreed upon it and

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Speaker 1: everything is fair for you too, and there's respect, then wonderful.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that's the choice to have. That choice

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Speaker 1: is the feminist ideal. But yeah, the more I see,

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Speaker 1: like again with the tradwise, they're going to a nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventies tactic of the fear mongering of feminism, right, they

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Speaker 1: want to take away men they hate oh man, they

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Speaker 1: want to kill men.

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Speaker 2: A B.

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Speaker 1: The fact that they can't wear You can't wear bras

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Speaker 1: because if you do, you're not a feminist and you

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Speaker 1: can't wear like who ever said these things? Who said this?

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Speaker 1: What is happening this fear mongering that has come back,

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Speaker 1: and that they have not only taken this on, they're

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Speaker 1: pushing it so hard that those who always hated the

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Speaker 1: ideal of something absolutely are gripping to this. It's like, yes,

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Speaker 1: they are trying to take away these things from me

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Speaker 1: or make me do these things, and I hate the feminists.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is such a for aw man. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 3: so this actually is one of the three major points

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Speaker 3: that I want folks to think about and really know

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Speaker 3: in terms of coming to this content with a critical

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Speaker 3: eye and with with a little bit of media literacy,

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Speaker 3: is that this kind of content is often specifically engineered

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Speaker 3: to make us have a big reaction. Right, So, in

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Speaker 3: the example that we were just talking about, you know

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Speaker 3: that influencer does not have a huge following. She has

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Speaker 3: like twenty k on Instagram and I think or on

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Speaker 3: forty k on TikTok, which is pretty small in the

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Speaker 3: ecosystem of trad wife influencers. And so you know, because

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Speaker 3: some of these people have like millions and millions of followers.

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Speaker 3: So I suspect the reason that she has to frame

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Speaker 3: her video in such a smug way where it's like

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Speaker 3: my choices are good, other women's choices not good, is

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Speaker 3: because she is trafficking on our big reaction to get engagement.

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Speaker 3: If she just said I like to homeschool my kids,

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Speaker 3: I like to play with my kids, I like to

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Speaker 3: cook for my husband. I have a relationship where I

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Speaker 3: rested back to my husband, who would care. Nobody would

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00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 3: care because it's like, oh, good for you. She has

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Speaker 3: to tweak it to be like I'm doing it in

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Speaker 3: a good way and everybody else is doing it wrong

404
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: intentionally because it gets our blood boiling to get more engagement,

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Speaker 3: to get more views, and to ultimately boost her profile.

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Speaker 3: Where it's very clear she wants to have a big one, right,

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Speaker 3: And so in some ways this is just a good

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Speaker 3: old fashioned engagement grift where you say things in a

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Speaker 3: way that is intentionally said to be a little bit

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Speaker 3: inflammatory to get more engagement. Right.

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Speaker 2: Gosh, that took me on a rabbit hole of like

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Speaker 2: a dark time in her company where that was like

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Speaker 2: you should make people mad, they'll engage with you.

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Speaker 3: Like, please don't do that. This is a bit of

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Speaker 3: a side note, but this is my new media literacy

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Speaker 3: battle cry, which is that we should understand how many

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Speaker 3: places on the Internet and how many places and influencers

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Speaker 3: and people and content creators that make up our internet

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Speaker 3: discourse are doing that They are trying to get one

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Speaker 3: over on us because it is effective. We already know

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Speaker 3: that social media platforms intentionally boost content that gets a

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Speaker 3: lot of engagement that makes us angry or gets our

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Speaker 3: hearts racing because it is better for their platforms. And

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Speaker 3: so the dynamic where anybody who says something that is

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Speaker 3: inflammatory that gets people upset that they are rewarded with engagement,

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Speaker 3: that is a bad system and we need to be

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Speaker 3: looking at it like I can't tell you how many

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Speaker 3: stupid TikTok skits. I have gotten sucked into where I'm like,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, why do I care? Like what this

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Speaker 3: fake scenario says. It's happening like the story time of

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Speaker 3: a woman doing her makeup telling me a made up

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Speaker 3: story about a friend that doesn't exist. Like why am

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Speaker 3: I giving this my attention? And we need to put

434
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 3: a wrench in that entire system, that entire machine that

435
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 3: continues to crank out content like that, because it's not

436
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: good for us.

437
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 2: No, and I think a lot of it is so

438
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: And I know you're going to talk about this a

439
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: little bit, but it's so dishonest and the time it

440
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: takes and perhaps the production it takes to just make

441
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 2: these videos. I always kind of laugh when I see

442
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 2: like ring lights in their eyes and it's clearly supposed

443
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: to be like, oh I just woke up.

444
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, you did it.

445
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: But you do have another example of somebody who has

446
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: a lot of engagement, yes.

447
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 3: Yes, and that is Ballerina Farms. So if you don't

448
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: know who Ballerina Farms is, her name is Hannah Neeliman

449
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: and she is a follower of the Church of Latter

450
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: day Saints Akaam ormon. She married into the family that

451
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: owns the airline that Jet Blue, So girl married very well.

452
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 3: She is probably not living like a rule kind of

453
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: dependent on the land lifestyle. However, if you looked at

454
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: her content, you might think like, oh, she's living a

455
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: very humble rule existence, because that's what she wants you

456
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: to think. She spends a lot of time on TikTok,

457
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: cooking with her eight kids on her farm, and when

458
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: she's not doing that, she is competing in a beauty

459
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: passiont She has almost ten million followers, so a huge,

460
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: huge footprint in the landscape. I would say Ballerina Farms,

461
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: I would describe her as like a source of a

462
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: lot of skepticism and frustration. Like she competed in a

463
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: beauty pageant just I think a few days after she

464
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: gave birth, for instance, and people were like, you know, like,

465
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: you're probably not in your best shape when you just

466
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: have given birth. What it like. People felt some kind

467
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 3: of way about the fact that she was, you know,

468
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: competing in a beauty pageant. But as a recent piece

469
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 3: in Glamour points out, you really would never know that

470
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 3: her content is like controversial or is a source of

471
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 3: frustration or skepticism for people. The piece reads, neely Man

472
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: has never wavered. She doesn't publicly address her haters, she

473
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: doesn't engage with the discourse, and she doesn't try to

474
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: clear the air on, for instance, whether her wealthy father

475
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: in law bought her ranch for her family. She just

476
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: continues to make bread, post videos of her dancing, and

477
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 3: lift her life. She seems to be, at least online,

478
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: completely unbothered and content, which of course is its own

479
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 3: kind of privilege when you have eight kids. But on

480
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: the other hand, we have no idea what her reality

481
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: really looks like, do we, And so she does not

482
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: have to engage in the kind of rage baiting that

483
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 3: somebody who might be a less successful Tradwives influencer might

484
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: have to write, like her thing is like I just

485
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: make my bread and like smile weird and like pretend

486
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 3: to be living a rural, rustic life even though I'm

487
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 3: very wealthy, right right.

488
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of romanticizing of like that kind

489
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: of work and that kind of life that I think

490
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: I see happen a lot in general conservative movements, where

491
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: like let's get back to the land of like do

492
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: you know how to get back to.

493
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 3: The life yeah, I was talking to So my partner

494
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: grew up on a farm in rural upstate New York.

495
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 3: When I say a farm, I don't know, Like I'm

496
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 3: not a country girl. So when he was like, oh,

497
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: I grew up on a farm. My parents will on

498
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 3: a farm. The first time I went to visit his parents,

499
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: who still live on that farm, I was like, oh,

500
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: I don't know what I had been envisioning, but like

501
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: it is a farm farm, like a real farm. And

502
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: so he grew up like tending to animals as part

503
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: of his chores, and they would, you know, butcher and

504
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: package steaks, you know, for to eat and to sell,

505
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 3: so like a real farm. And it's always so funny

506
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: to him and his family. How people online have convinced

507
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: themselves that farm life is this like route to a soft,

508
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 3: slow life. That is only true for people who are wealthy,

509
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: who are not actually farming as a source of their existence,

510
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: as a source of sustenance, as a source of their

511
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: financial security. Anybody who actually lives on a farm, a

512
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: real farm, where that farm where like you live or die,

513
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 3: or you eat or don't eat based on how that

514
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: farm is doing, will tell you that it is a

515
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: ton of work. People who have farms are always tired.

516
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: Their schedules are wild. Like this idea that that oh,

517
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, we're just gonna buy a land and start

518
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 3: a farm, and that that's gonna be an easy, slow life.

519
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely not. That is just a fiction, a fantasy. Talk

520
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 3: to anybody who's ever done farming. That's not true.

521
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: Have they not seen a little house on the prairie.

522
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: They're waking up at four am and going to bed

523
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: at nine and they're I know, that's that's my reference,

524
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: But no like to know that they actually have to

525
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: wake up at the crack of dawn to make sure

526
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: whether it's snowing or raining and all of that, to

527
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: make sure they have to take care and tend to

528
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: all the things, the living things that are on there,

529
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: including any crops, and if they have like workers on there.

530
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming, because I don't know anything about this

531
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: Ballerina farmer, that if they're that wealthy and they do

532
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: actually own a farm, that they do hire workers, and

533
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: how the little she's active on that farm. Maybe I'm

534
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: just static, you know, speaking up too much, but just

535
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: like that doesn't seem like a thing that she would

536
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: be doing. Now she's also posting pretty little pictures of

537
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: herself dancing with our kids.

538
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: I can confirm that they have like a pretty big staff,

539
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: like a paid employees to work for them. I should

540
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 3: also say, like, side note, I have heard some horror

541
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 3: stories about what is actually like going down on that farm.

542
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: If you were interested, there are Reddit rabbit holes, but like,

543
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: I cannot confirm any of that myself, so like, don't

544
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: have anything to say about it. But that is out

545
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: there about some of the allegations of how the animals

546
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: are treated on that farm, but like, do your own

547
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: research there because I don't know either way. But yes,

548
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: she definitely has paid staff to do the actual labor,

549
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: and again there's something wrong with that. That's like, if

550
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: that's how you're going to do it, but then don't

551
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: go on TikTok and make it seem like you are

552
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: doing this work yourself and it's actually not that hard

553
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: and you actually have a slow life, soft life, because

554
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: that's not true, right, And so I think that's sort

555
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: of like my biggest point is that I think that

556
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: some of these creators are just not being totally honest

557
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: in the way that we understand that most online content

558
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: is probably not honest in some way. But there's something

559
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: about the like trad wife, slow life, rustic vibes content

560
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: creators that I think makes it harder to see when

561
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: someone is basically lying to you on the Internet about

562
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: what their life actually looks like. And so Ballerina Farms

563
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: might not have to like Engagement Farm the way that

564
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: the other influencer does, but that doesn't mean that she's

565
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: being totally honest about what is going down in her life,

566
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 3: or that we're getting an honest view of it, because

567
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: you know, what do you call somebody who makes content

568
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: to make their life look a certain way, maybe not

569
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 3: totally accurately to sell commercial products a marketer? Right? Like

570
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: that is marketing. Ballerina Farms, i would argue, is a business,

571
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 3: and her social media stick is just part of the

572
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: marketing arm of this business. Like their farm is a

573
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: farm where you can buy boxes of meats from it online,

574
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 3: like it is a it is a corporate entity, and

575
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: so she is just a like marketing her consumer goods

576
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: to try to get us to buy not just the product,

577
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: but into the whole lifestyle that her that her product

578
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: is kind of revolves around. And what's also kind of

579
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: interesting is there's this creator, Carol Claire Burkie on TikTok,

580
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 3: who is really made a thing out of doing some

581
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: media analysis around Ballerina Farms as a brand, and she

582
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: basically is like, we don't actually know or see the

583
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: actual real person behind Ballerina Farms, Hannah. We don't really

584
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: see a real view of her life. What we're seeing

585
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: is the way that her corporation or her company wants

586
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: us to see her for marketing purposes. She compares it

587
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: to the Kardashians, who you know, we know have become

588
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 3: literal billionaires from leveraging a highly curated peace into their

589
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: personal lives to get us to buy into them as

590
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: a brand. But the difference is, she says that the

591
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: Kardashians are maybe even more upfront about this dynamic than

592
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,239
Speaker 3: these trad wife influencers. I don't think anybody would be like, oh,

593
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: the Kardashians are just trying to give us an honest

594
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: look into the lives of billionaires and like they're just

595
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: being so authentic. I don't think anybody would say that.

596
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: Anybody would know like, oh, they want you to buy

597
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 3: the makeup, the lip kit, the skims, the whatever, this that,

598
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 3: and they're leveraging showing a curated look at their lives

599
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: to do that. I think with these trad wife influencers,

600
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: they're just not being honest about what the dynamic is.

601
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: It feels like it's going backwards, gonna because for a

602
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: long while, there was a lot of parents who are

603
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: truly honest, like this is what it looks like to

604
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: get to our videos here where they're doing the video

605
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: and doing it behind the scene, and they're being more

606
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: open and transparent. It feels like it's going back to

607
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: again where Instagram started and everything was so pretty. Now

608
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: all the pictures were so perfect and they had to

609
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: show the perfect life in order to get the more

610
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: ads and more views. So it feels like it's going

611
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: backwards again, just like our society in how they are

612
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: trying to romanticize, as you were saying, a lifestyle.

613
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point, and I do

614
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 3: think that that this has something to do with that.

615
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: I think for a while, what popped on social media

616
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: when it came to making content about motherhood was authenticity, like, oh,

617
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: I'm a mess just like you, Like my kids are filthy,

618
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: and I'm exhausted and i haven't washed my hair just

619
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: like you. And I think that that authenticity maybe became

620
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: leveraged where like that it almost felt like a curated authenticity.

621
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: And so I almost wonder if this trad wives kind

622
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: of perfection is a response to this authenticity that kind

623
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: of typified motherhood content on the Internet of a certain era.

624
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: Like if it was cool to be authentic, then now

625
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: what's cool is like being being like, isn't my life perfect?

626
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 3: Like we're just coming back around.

627
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Coming back in that circle. And just as a reminder,

628
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: with her having that many followers and that many views,

629
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: she's making lots of money just off of her tiktoks.

630
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: Lots of money.

631
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: Yes, like that is my thing, there's no shame in it,

632
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: but like this is a business. And in my interview

633
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: with Joe, she puts it really well that if you're

634
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: somebody who is setting up a tripod, setting up lighting,

635
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: putting on a face of makeup, putting on a particular outfit,

636
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: to film content that you then edit published to millions

637
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 3: of your followers, and have built up a social media

638
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: platform that might involve navigating like brand deals or sponsored posts,

639
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: you have a job that is employment, that is labor.

640
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 3: So you have a situation where some of these women

641
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: are making content about how they do not do wage

642
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: earning work, but the strategy that in which they are

643
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: doing that is work. It's like a mind.

644
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: Like I feel like they forgot the mom blogs, which

645
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: was the beginning honestly of all of this and the

646
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: way that it was created. It was stay at home

647
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: moms trying to figure out how to make money to

648
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: help assist and figuring out this is this is profitable

649
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: and has now ventured into this and as where the

650
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: blogs were curated in a way that it was written

651
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: and entertaining. This is an entertainment on a different level,

652
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: which is a show? Is a show pretty much?

653
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like in some ways this is just like entertainment,

654
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: Like it's like using curating a version of your life

655
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: for entertainment value, right. And I've actually even heard the

656
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 3: theory that at least some of this content is fetish content,

657
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: like sexual fetish content that are not actually meant to

658
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 3: be speaking to women at all or saying anything or

659
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: making any kind of comment about women and what we

660
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: should be doing with our lives or not doing with

661
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 3: our lives. That it's meant to appeal to horny men

662
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: and their submissive wife, sexual fantasies, and that these creators

663
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: have just sort of found a way to make fetish

664
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: content in a way that does not trigger you know,

665
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: TikTok or whatever is not safe for work content sensors,

666
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: and so like, if that's what's going on, like, more

667
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: power to you, you know, do your thing, But we

668
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: need to come at this content with a little bit

669
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 3: of like media literacy and criticism, because people would then

670
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: take that content and then use it to make some

671
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 3: kind of a point or a statement or turn it

672
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: into a way to understand our own lives. And it's like, well,

673
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 3: why would you be doing that with fetish content, Like

674
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 3: I don't think it's I don't think it's meant to

675
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: help you understand how you should be living your life

676
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 3: or making your choices.

677
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be accidentally fetish, right, Well, there's a

678
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: we passed over it.

679
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: But there was a note you had in your outline

680
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 2: that I was I thought was interesting. Was the sort

681
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 2: of like cause playing a certain type of life. Right

682
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 2: after the insurrection happened on January sixth, I wrote this

683
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: really long article about like a lot of people there

684
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: were couse playing, like the idea of Okay, I'm going

685
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: to take back our country, and then they get into

686
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: trouble and all of a sudden they're in court and

687
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: they're like, oh God, well, like the consequence has come

688
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: and it just falls apart. So it does have these

689
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: sort of implications that I don't think people think about

690
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: when people watch that and it gets in their head

691
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: and they get this idea of like, oh, I can

692
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: live that life, I can live off the land, or

693
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: I can do all these things, but the reality is

694
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: not there, and it can become a really toxic soup

695
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: that infects all of us. And it sounds like, based

696
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 2: on my experience and what you're saying, that we're getting

697
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 2: a lot more of this content right now.

698
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 3: That is such a good way to put it, and

699
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 3: something that I didn't have. But I just want to

700
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: say is that I want to make it clear that

701
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 3: I think that everybody should be able to do what

702
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 3: they want to do. Like my feminism is about letting

703
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: people make choices for themselves. If that choice is to

704
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: like rage bait other women online for their choices, I

705
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: don't love that, but you know, in terms of if

706
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: you want to stay at home or work, that should

707
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: be your choice. However, one thing I will say is

708
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: that I have definitely seen an uptick in people giving

709
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: younger women the advice that they should just marry and

710
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 3: start having kids really young. And I don't generally get

711
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: down for one size fits all advice, but for someone

712
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 3: really young to tell them that they should not know

713
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 3: anything about having their own money or managing their own money,

714
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: that they should not try to have any kind of

715
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: employment history, should this marriage fall apart, should there something

716
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 3: happen to their partner, whatever, I think that is really

717
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 3: dangerous advice. Even if you're somebody who wants to get

718
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 3: married young, wants to have kids young, wants to have

719
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: a submissive traditional marriage, do all of those things, but

720
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: make sure that you know how to take care of

721
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 3: yourself and live your own life, because nothing in life

722
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 3: is guaranteed, Like you could be happily married forever and

723
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: get married very young and then have your partner die

724
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: unexpectedly or something right. And so I think that we're

725
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: giving young women advice based on a fantasy that does

726
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 3: not come to fruition in reality. And I think you're right, Annie,

727
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 3: that we are seeing more and more of this kind

728
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: of content. And I just don't think we can talk

729
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: about the rise of this kind of online treadwife content

730
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: without looking at where we are as women right now,

731
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: which is not great. You know, we've experienced this major

732
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: rollback of our rights. The Journal of the American Medical

733
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: Association actually put out a report just this week that

734
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: found that since Roe fell, rape has led to an

735
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: estimated fifty eight, nine hundred and seventy nine pregnancies in

736
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: states that ban abortion without exception for rape. That is staggering.

737
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 3: You know, we also are facing rising costs of things

738
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: like groceries and housing. Bloomberg found that on average, US

739
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 3: households want to spend an extra five two hundred dollars

740
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: this year just to be able to enjoy the exact

741
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 3: same standard of living that they did last year. Add

742
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 3: to that, things like climate instability, political instability, all things

743
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: that historically women have really for the burden of. And

744
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 3: so I just can't help but think that we're seeing

745
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: this rise in content that romanticizes and glorifies times when

746
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 3: women had even less rights than we do right now

747
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: is related to what's happening currently, which brings me to

748
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: the last thing that I want people to really keep

749
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 3: in mind when they encounter this content online. Is that

750
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 3: I believe that tradwife content is responding, albeit oftentimes in

751
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: a very distorted way, to very very real issues that

752
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: we're facing as women. You know, we're kind of being

753
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 3: served a crap sandwich right now from being honest with you, Like,

754
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: we don't have paid leave, we don't have affordable childcare,

755
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 3: we don't have any real social safety net. Women are

756
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: burdened with more and more of the labor that it

757
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: takes to keep a family stable with very little social

758
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 3: or institutional help. And it just doesn't surprise me that

759
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: we're seeing this online glorification of stay at home parenthood

760
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: in a particular kind of way right now as a

761
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 3: reaction to it. And I think that something that gets

762
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 3: left out of the discourse is that the reasons that

763
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: women are staying home are not necessarily like to deprogram

764
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 3: their kids from government instruction or whatever. The A lot

765
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: of times it's because childcare is so being expensive that

766
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: it does not make financial sense to work outside of

767
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: the home anymore. Or maybe on the flip side, both

768
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: parents are working and they're just like figuring it out

769
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: and just squeezing by a lot of people are just

770
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: doing what they have to do based on financial circumstances

771
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,959
Speaker 3: that are not great, and so that is a very

772
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: different thing from choosing to work because feminism and like

773
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: woke society says that you have to. It is like

774
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: some of these creators are creating a straw man for

775
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 3: why women either work outside of the home or don't,

776
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: and that's actually not a reflection of the reality that

777
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 3: most parents are facing right now.

778
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, especially during the beginning of the pandemic,

779
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: there were so many articles about that of like women

780
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 2: were being forced out of the workforce, like all of

781
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: the scientific papers from women decreased. And I think it's

782
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: interesting a lot of content like this immediately out the

783
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: gate feels defensive for whatever lifestyle. And I could see

784
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: it being defensive from like women judging you, But I

785
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: can also see it being maybe trying to find like

786
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: a reason that it's okay that you didn't have the choice,

787
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 2: and so let me make this look prettier. And I no,

788
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: I definitely like it, and this is definitely what I want,

789
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: so I can. I think that totally makes sense, Bridget.

790
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: And I think people are picking up on it because

791
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: women are tired. I would just love someone to do it, like, yes,

792
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: you go out and work and let me just chill here,

793
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: which is not the truth at all, but the way

794
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: they make it look like, while I sit here with

795
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: these pretty little kids and tell them to go take

796
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: a nap like would if you've been any childcare, you

797
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: know that's not the thing. And everything's a mess and

798
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: everything's a disaster, and cooking is hard, and being a

799
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: stay at home mom is a time job in itself

800
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: and deserves pay, which is the other conversation that they

801
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: don't want to have chidwise, is that a lot of

802
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: those stay at home moms who love it also are like,

803
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: but we should be paid. Yeah, absolutely should.

804
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: It's labor. I mean absolutely exactly. So I think you're right.

805
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: I think a lot of these influencers can really oversimplify

806
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 3: and glamorize what is ultimately a dynamic that does not

807
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 3: allow for women to make the choices they want to make,

808
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 3: Because being a stay at home mom because you cannot

809
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: afford daycare is not the same thing as choosing it

810
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 3: for yourself because it's what you want to do, and

811
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: it's because you can't afford to do it. And I

812
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: think that ultimately women deserve to have choices. You deserve

813
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: to have better choices to be able to do what

814
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: we want to do with our lives.

815
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 2: Yep, women do women Yes, women, Yes, agreed, agreed one

816
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: thousand percent. Well, thanks as always, Bridget. Again, I feel

817
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: like we could go on and on and on, but

818
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: we will let you go for now.

819
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: Where can the good listeners find you?

820
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: Well? You can listen to my podcast. There are no

821
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: girls on the internet. If you want to hear my

822
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: full conversation with Joe Piazza, we put it out as recently.

823
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: She's hilarious. Definitely recommend. Can find me on Instagram at

824
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: Bridget Marie in DC, or on TikTok at Bridget max Pods.

825
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: Yes, and hopefully we'll be able to do some irl

826
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 2: things and maybe we can see some.

827
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 3: Of you all there. Listeners. Let's hope. So TVD stay tuned.

828
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: Yes, stay tuned well, Thanks as always Bridget and listeners.

829
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: If you would like to contact us, you can our

830
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: email Stephania mom stuff atiheartmea dot com. You can find

831
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: us on Twitter at most of the podcast, or on TikTok,

832
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: which we don't post very often, but we might start

833
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: posting more. It's Stia Graham at Stuff Mom Never Told You.

834
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a

835
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

836
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, and.

837
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

838
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: Stuff I Never Told You is production by Her Radio,

839
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: More Podcast or my Heart Radio. You can check out

840
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: the art radio app Apuple Podcasts, where you listen to

841
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