WEBVTT - #301 Jason Flom with Willie Timmy Donald 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.800 On February twenty seventh, nineteen eighty two, a string of 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.239 five armed robberies occurred in Gary, Indiana, leaving one man 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.959 shot dead in front of his wife and three young daughters. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.200 All the victims described the assailant as a black man 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.160 around five to six with a kangle hat, red bandana, 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.720 black leather jacket, and some sort of scarring on his face. 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.720 Instead of compiling a photo array of men fitting that description, 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.480 investigators included the photo of Timmy Donald, a man who 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.720 was six feet tall with no facial scarring, and, according 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.120 to at least one victim, was the suggested choice of investigators. 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.280 In fact, a search warrant had already been obtained for 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.199 Timmy's home before he had been misidentified. Three of the 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.000 robbery victims, including one former Gary police officer, were separately 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.320 shown the photo array and did not identify Timmy, but 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.720 the other two view the array together. A mixture of 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:58.760 police and peer pressure produced two misidentifications during the live lineup. 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.520 According to one victim, when she said that Timmy was 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.240 bigger than the armed robber, she was assured that they 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.959 had the right guy, even though it was proven that 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.200 Timmy was at work at the exact time that the 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.720 victim had spotted the actual attacker on the street and 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.760 tried to report it. Tunnel vision had already set in 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.560 and that report was hidden from the defense. Despite no 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.720 physical or forensic evidence, as well as a solid alibi 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.480 and the protests of all the other victims, the misidentifications 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.800 were enough to send Timmy Donald away for a sixty 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:45.440 year sentence. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.800 Today's case is pretty much mind blowing. It was an 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:54.680 insane crimes fore but how they ended up convicting a 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.960 man named tim Donald and sending him to sixty years 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.040 to life in prison on some of the shakiest eyewitness 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:07.640 testimony I've ever heard, ignoring and covering up exculpatory evidence. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.000 And that's just the beginning. We're talking about an Indiana 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.239 case that occurred in the early nineties in a time 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.600 when police corruption. It would be comical if it wasn't 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:27.160 so sinister. And we have the man himself here today 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.800 with us, So without further ado, Tim Donald, welcome to 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:32.560 wrong for conviction. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:34.239 Thank you for having me. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.120 And you know I always say I'm sorry you're here 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.760 because of the reason why you're here, but I'm very 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:41.760 grateful and honored to have you here on the show 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.560 with us, and of course with you today. Is my 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.240 friend and someone who a lot of us call a 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.320 hero in this movement. She's a professor of criminal justice 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.560 who serves as the executive director of the Center for 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:58.120 Justice and Post Exoneration Assistance at Purdue University Northwest. Doctor 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.480 Nikki Jackson. Welcome to Rawfel Conviction. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:02.600 Thanks Jason, Thanks for having. 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.680 Me so Tim. It's been thirty years since this happened, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.560 but it must seem like yesterday in some ways to you. 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.960 Let's go back in time too, before this insanity, when 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.799 you were just a young man with hopes and dreams 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.600 like anybody else. What was your life like growing up 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.760 in Indiana back in the in the seventies, eighties and 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:24.760 early nineties. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.880 I had four sisters, mother, step dad, doing grade school, 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.720 middle school, and high school. I enjoyed playing sports, baseball, basketball, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.840 and just hanging around my family in France. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:39.800 Were you a good player? Good athlete? 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.440 Pretty good? 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.160 I hear the underneath that tone. It sounds like he 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.280 was probably really good some humility. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.640 I had dreams of playing center field for the Chicago 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:52.480 cust so. 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.240 You were good. Yeah, let's not listen. I had dreams 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:56.320 of being a pro ball player. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.520 I often knew that probably every young man he dreams. 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.080 Yeah, mind, there was no connection between those dreams and reality. 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.640 So you grew up. And did you have any run 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.880 ins with the law before this insane series of events. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:12.360 Yeah. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.240 In nineteen eighty nine, we wanted to bar my friend's 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.719 uncle Carr to go to the beach, and I know 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.520 the neck of the stadium column was missing. That's usually 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.280 associated with the car being stolen. So I askedly his 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.240 uncle what was going on with that. He said he 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.320 said he lost the key and he was in the 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.400 process of getting that a NIX fixed. So we got 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.680 stopped by the police and he noticed the NISS and 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.880 automatically he thought the car was stolen, so we was arrested. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.000 His uncle eventually came to the police station, run the 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:49.039 proper paperwork showing ownership of the car, and I was 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:50.280 released and was not. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:51.240 Charged with a crime. 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.120 Good thing he had that. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.080 And I got arrested for the legend car. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.960 I was fingerprinted and that's how my pictures got in 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:00.000 the Gary police. 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.840 Depart And I think that's an important point. To touch on, 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.880 because I think it's why a lot of young men 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.320 like yourselves, who come from varias when over policing is occurring, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:10.920 end up in the system through no fault of your 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:15.359 own in this case. So this crime, this is a 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.040 crazy scenario I'm talking about. On February twenty seventh, nineteen 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.880 ninety two, in Glen Park, which was a neighborhood in Gary, Indiana, there. 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:29.000 Were five armed robberies, all within one hour of each other, 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.960 and the fourth robbery resulted in the death. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.320 A man named Bernard Jim Menez was arriving home with 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.839 his wife, Kimberly Bolinsky, and their three little daughters. A 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.240 man had a handgut and he grabbed the little girl 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.760 with the biggest one, the seven year old, and demanded money, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.239 and Miss Belinsky said that her husband put the cash 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.120 from his wallet, which was less than twenty dollars on 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.000 the ground, told the robber to go into the house 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.200 and take whatever he wanted. The robber picked up the money, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.359 but was angry what he saw that was so little 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.920 of it, threw it down on the ground, yelled out, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.440 you don't value your family, and then he pointed his 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.320 gun at the one year old's face. This is a sick, 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.680 sick guy. Then the victim, mister Jimenez, through a small 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:15.080 wooden picnic table at the assailant. There was a struggle, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.600 and the struggle ended with the robber fatally shooting this 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.600 young father and fleeing. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:27.320 Five minutes after mister Hemenez was murdered. The perpetrator then 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.480 gets to another victim, robs her and her daughter. And 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.520 she is a former Gary police officer. And I think 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.440 that's really important as well. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.400 Right, And since this is a case of myth identification, Curiously, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:45.400 this former Gary police officer never identified you, and one 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.800 would think that her judgment might hold more weight with 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.200 the local police. I mean, she's a cop after all, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.360 but it did not. And all of the robbery victims, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.720 as well as mister Jimenez's wife, Kimberly Belinski, described as 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.880 sale in a similar way. Right blackmail about five six, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.400 black leather jacket, a kgo hat with a red bandana, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.680 really sleepy eyes. And they all said that he had 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.720 really bad skin, like maybe acne scarring or something like that. 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.000 So let's go to the first most obvious thing, Tim 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:19.720 how tall are you? 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.000 I'm six feet So. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.960 The victims described the perpetrator, who was five six or 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.360 five seven exactly. I mean, did you suddenly grow after 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.800 you went to prison? Were you maybe five six five seven? 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:32.280 Back then? 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:38.360 I musta grew? You hit an excellent makeup artist. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.559 Yeah, you didn't have anything wrong with your skin either, 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:47.120 as all the victims had described the assailant. Right, it's 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.440 a mystery as to how you could have even been 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.320 considered a potential suspect. What did your skin like magically 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.080 heal itself overnight or magically get terrible over it? I mean, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:03.360 it's also it's monstrously ridiculous, yet inexplicably the investigation still 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.240 was sent in your direction. We still don't know. Maybe 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.560 we'll never know what the motivation was. But before they 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:14.400 had even done this sort of shady identification procedure, Timmy 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.280 was arrested on some kind of traffic violation. Just four 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:18.680 days after this crime. 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.080 I was arrested more a second. 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.280 They came to his home with this arrest warrant for 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.840 failure to sign. 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.000 Yeah that sounds fishy, but at this point you're probably 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.400 still just thinking, Okay, I'll go take care of this 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:34.200 and be on my way. 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.280 I knew someone was wrong when they came to the house. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.440 They like they was picking up the president for the 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.680 White House, with all the cars and things of this nature. 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.160 So I knew it was something more than a traffic 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.199 I didn't know it was to this degree. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.960 Have you heard about this crime spree? I mean, was 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.080 it no one in the area. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.839 I think my sister had read about it in a 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:57.080 news type. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.000 So after he was taken to the police station under 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:05.400 this warrant for these failure to appear in court, he 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.440 was placed in a photo lineup. So mister Donald's picture 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.240 was put in a six pack in that photo lineup 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.000 based on that nineteen eighty nine arrest. Okay, so it 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:17.720 was tossed in. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.560 Now, three of the victims, you'd line up separately, but 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.640 that wasn't the case with these other two, Kimerly Bleinski 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:24.800 and Rhonda Williams. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.559 From my understanding, these two women were placed in the 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:34.280 same room and identified mister Donald, whereas all the other 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.240 victims did not identify him. They all had said, this 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.360 is not the man. What happened was, these two women 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.720 are in this room. It's one's a Caucasian, one's African American. 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.040 The Caucasian female says, I'm not sure. At some point 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.480 in the game, she changes her story and says, yes, 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.040 it's him, Yes, it's him later and we can talk 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.440 about this because I think this is so important to 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:03.520 Timmy's case. Is the recantation made by Ronda Williams. When 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:10.560 Ronda says she was basically coerced to pick mister Donald 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:16.040 out of that photo lineup, Kimberley Bolinsky says, no, we 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:16.920 got the right guy. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.880 So you have this element of cross racial identification, which 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.960 study after study has proven to be actually less accurate 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.520 than guessing. And yes, you heard that right, it's less 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.719 accurate than guessing, especially in cases where someone witnesses a 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.960 violent crime up close. So at first Kimberly was not sure. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.199 Then she eventually comes around to that idea, and all 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.440 the other people in the room lean on Ronda. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.040 And what's really important to note is that all of 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:50.120 the victims, every victim had reported that the assailant had 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.360 really bad skin, had a different build than mister Donald, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:59.000 had the man they described could not have been mister Donald. 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:05.160 Yet in a photo lineup, these two women together picked 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.440 out mister Donald. After the victims were shown the photo lineup. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:10.960 Then there was a physical lineup. 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.280 The lineup was like, it was suggestive. Everybody supposed to 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.240 resemble one another. Then none of the gas resemble me. 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.760 I was like the taller, the tallest one in the lineup. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.559 And the same two victims identified mister Donald. 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.320 Right. Well, we know that photo lineups can be done 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.360 in a very suggestive manner, and they often are. And 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.560 then once the victim or even eyewitness sees that photo 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.480 in the photo lineup and identifies it, now their mind 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.280 starts to lock in on that image. And then they 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.480 go to the live lineup, and you have a person 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.520 who doesn't resemble the actual perpetrator, but resembles the person 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.400 that they picked out when they were being suggestively shown 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.680 the photos in the six pack. And of course you go, oh, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.000 that's yeah, because you're already that's the way our mind works. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.920 The next day they went and conducted a search of 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.120 his home. The kingle hat and a red bandana were 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:05.760 never discovered. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.040 None of the victims, but longest wasn't found there my 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:08.679 home either. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.760 They found absolutely no evidence that linked mister Donald to 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.360 any of these robberies or the murder of mister Hemenez. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.680 The thing that struck me is they had the affidavit 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.720 for a search want signed by the judge an hour 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.760 before the lineup was even conducted. But you need probable 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.160 calls to get the search. 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:32.760 WM right, and they didn't have that. 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.160 They made their minds up and they were going to 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.880 make the evidence fit the narrative that they wanted instead 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.079 of looking at the evidence and then analyzing it for 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:41.720 what it was. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.600 It's very shocking to even know that this even got 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.040 to trial. I mean, there was zero evidence, zero. 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.960 Yet you were charged with first degree murder and two 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.840 counts of armed robbery. The trial took place in Lake 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.800 County Circuit Court in June of ninety two. Now, your 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:03.920 older sister, Sheila and her partner Dan Hopkins, both testified 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.679 during the evening of the crimes, you were car shopping 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.280 with them in a place called Barrelville and Crown Point, Indiana, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.560 And the car salesmen testified. Right, so someone could say, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.080 well the relatives, people say whatever they say about that. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:21.719 But the car salesman testified that the three of you 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.880 were at their dealerships at the same time of day 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.360 as the crimes occurred. But for some reason, the dealership 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.640 employees didn't verify that they were on the exact same 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.960 day as the crime. I don't understand what was that 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:35.880 all about. 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:36.960 They keep being said. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.520 But my sister Brown proved a business card that was 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.920 dated and had car prices on it the same day 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.720 that these crimes was committed, So I don't know what 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:49.680 it was put out there, like when we visited the 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.679 car dealership it went on the same day, or the. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.120 Crimes and the cameras in the auto dealership the footage 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.439 had been erased, So that's one of the issues. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.760 My trail attorney didn't get there in time and erased tights. 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.880 And since you didn't have the money to bond out, 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.680 you were not able to develop the alibi evidence that 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.439 your lawyer didn't seem to have the time or inclination. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.920 Let's call it what it is to develop now. Any 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.240 absence of physical or forensic evidence was explained away just 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.480 as we were. Abi evidence was as well, and even 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.920 though three of the five victims never identified you, they 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:27.360 still had Kimberly Bolinski adamantly supporting her id while Ronda 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.200 Williams was convinced to go through with her as at trial. Meanwhile, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.960 any of Ronda's reservations at the live lineup and the 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.520 fact that she had reported seeing the attacker proven to 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.160 not be you in the street. In the days following 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.840 your robberies, all that critical information was hidden from your 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.800 defense team, and so the jury found you guilty and 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.920 you were sentenced to sixty years. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.680 After the verdict was ready, I've just looked back towards 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.920 my family because they were sitting directly in back of me, 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.640 and one of my sisters was frenant at the time. 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.040 She just collapsed. Yes, I already know that. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.240 I had that found guilty, and my man, my main 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.640 concern was the safety and welfare my sister at the time. 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.360 The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.600 of Rawfuel Conviction and of the Last Mile organization, which 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.840 provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.240 and permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.920 committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.000 organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping young people and students. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.880 For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.440 or the Last Mile program, visit Pacers Foundation dot org 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.040 or the Lastmile dot org. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.880 The first time I went to yard and I looked 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.480 at that forty foot wall and you can't see nothing. 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.080 Only thing that you could see at the sky, And 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.480 that's what really stuck in my head. Of course, in 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.920 the prison, you experienced different type of emotions. You know, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.160 you go through about a depression. I remember one time 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.040 I was having a hard time sleeping and I remember 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.760 this show I was watching. I forgot the name on 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.000 the show. It was a guy on death row in 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.080 textas he wrote a letter to an innocent project and 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.080 eventually they helped him get out of death row and 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.160 release from prison. And at that moment, I just sat 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.280 down there and I wrote a summary of my case. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.360 I got a directory of all the innocent projects in 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.600 the United States, and I got a copy of the letter. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.440 I just sent them out to all the innocent projects. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:57.320 Amazingly, things started to turn around. It was not that 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.480 long after you went to prison, right that it was 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.960 discovered that not long after the crime and before you 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.919 had been arrested, one of the victims, a victim named Williams, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.040 had called the police and reported that she saw the 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.639 man who robbed her on the street. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:15.280 So Williams had been living with the fact that she 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.040 felt like she had picked out the wrong man, and 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.879 we now know that she had called the police, I 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.639 believe three days after she had been robbed. She said, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.320 I see the man. I think this is him who 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.920 actually robbed me. So the police went to her home, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.600 they spoke with her, and then they went to mister 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.760 Donald's workplace. They checked out his time card, they spoke 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:46.280 to his supervisor, and they found that there was no 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.879 way that mister Donald could have been the man in 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.520 front of her home when he was at work. In fact, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.679 he had lunch with his supervisor at the time that 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.080 she had phoned the police. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.400 So Ronda Williams, prior to your formal charges, had spotted 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:05.040 the actual assailant on the street and reported it, and 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.199 the police looked into it, and it turned out that 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.960 the person that she saw could not have been you 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.119 because you had been at work provably so at the 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.120 time that she had seen the attacker. I'm just pausing 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.760 for a second for emphasis. That seems like it should 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.480 have mattered to the police. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:29.480 That's right, and yet nobody knows about this. The detectives 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.920 did not inform anybody. This didn't come out till after 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.280 he'd been incarcerated for many, many years. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.920 That was just the first time that they would tell 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.040 evidence on mar case. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.440 If the attorney had had this information, this case would 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:44.880 have pretty much been a done deal. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.879 That information, as I understand it, became the basis for 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.520 a post conviction motion to vacate Tim's conviction. But the motion, 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.879 as well as the subsequent appeals were denied. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.040 They said the information he had married. But it was 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.720 a town and that's why that got ton. During that time, 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.720 I was transitioning to another attorney, my trial attorney. He 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.120 was running for the mayor Gary, So at this time 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.320 I didn't have an attorney, and I guess the town 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.600 framed it. It supposed to have been found it had overlapped. 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.920 I mean, the technicalities make me crazy. I think most 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.879 people would agree that justice is more important than the 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.159 technical details and furthermore, finality, which seems to be the 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.600 opposite of the way our system functions. So now we 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:36.000 fast forward to two thousand and six, when the Medill 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.560 Innocence Project at Northwestern University's Middill School of Journalism and 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:45.080 later the Chicago Innocence Center began reinvestigating your case, and 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.600 they found evidence that showed that an eighteen year old 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.600 street gang member, a guy named Lavelle Thompson who had 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:58.159 facial acne and was about the right hype. He had 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.480 been murdered shortly after the robberies and the murder of 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.359 mister Jimenez. Now in two thousand and nine, so another 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.000 three years go by. Williams provided as Warren statement saying 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.600 that at the time she viewed the photographic lineup, she 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.399 was with Bolinski. It so, Williams said, she pointed to 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:22.639 your photo and Olinsky began to weep. However, a police 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.280 officer noted a report that Bolinsky was not completely sure 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.199 of her identification. Williams also said in the statement that 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.040 when she viewed the live lineup, she told the detective 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.320 that Timmy, that you were bigger and taller than the robber, right, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.560 just like we kee been saying this whole time, and 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.840 as you had been saying probably the whole time. However, 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.359 the detective assured her that you were in fact the guy, 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.159 and that you had been arrested across the street from 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.400 Williams's home. Now, she said, the detective quote unquote, convinced 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.760 me that I had picked the right guy, end quote. 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.000 Williams also said she never told prosecutors about her reservations 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.320 or the detectives successfully coercing her, and she said that 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.439 she remained convinced that the man that she saw shortly 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.360 after the robbery was the gunman who robbed her, which 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.600 again would have mean that it could not possibly have 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.879 been you. And everybody knew that because they knew that 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:15.840 you had been at work at that time, that was 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.600 beyond any doubt. But she testified to her doubts and 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.639 to the police detective's effort to persuade her during a 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.760 sworn deposition that she gave in twenty thirteen as part 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:30.639 of the post conviction proceeding to vacate your conviction. So 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.200 now things are really gathering momentum. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:35.760 About this time. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:40.800 That's when the notes was discovered that Rada and our 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.240 trial prosecutor had a meeting. This was before trial lay 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.200 back in ninety two. Landa had told the dean prosecutor 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.520 that was prosecuting my case that she wont one hundred 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.960 percent certain that I was the individual. She said I 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.240 was taller, she said my shoulders was wider, and that 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.960 she was sure he knew about these notes and he 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.840 got her own stand knowing that she testified to something 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.119 that she ain't sure about. So these noes stay hidden 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.639 in this prosecutor file for over twenty years before they 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.480 were discovered. That's the second Brady violation. 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.399 I don't have any words for that, right, Nikki, What 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:21.920 can you say about this type of behavior? What can 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:22.280 you say? 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.760 Well, it's unacceptable, and I think people need to be 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.239 held accountable. If prosecutors and or police didn't do what 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.040 they should be doing, they should be held accountable. I mean, 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.280 at the end of the day, these folks are responsible 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:37.960 for stealing this man's life. And if you and I 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.840