1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece cult mom Lorie Valo. Does 2 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: it never end with this woman? All right? First we 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: have her two children, JJ entirely ages seven and sixteen, 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: just turned sixteen. They go missing, and what does mommy do? 5 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: Put up missing flyers and posters, scan the area, beg 6 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: for help, make TV appeals to help find her children. 7 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Know she skips town. She first proops all of their 8 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: belongings into storage that she hasn't thrown away, then skips 9 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: town with her new boyfriend, Chad day Belle the Prophet. 10 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: They head to Hawaii for a beach wedding. She wears 11 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: the dress and the ring that she coincidentally bought just 12 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: before his wife, Tammy Day Bell died in her sleep. 13 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: Either they're guilty of Tammy's murder or they're clairvoyant. That's 14 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: just me, my speculation, But now renewed interest in the 15 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: cause of day Belle's wife, Tammy day Belle's death. He 16 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: told police she died peacefully in her sleep. Excuse me. 17 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: She was healthy as a horse, she was competing in 18 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: a marathon. She was young, she was in her forties, 19 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: her whole life in front of her. Die in her sleep. 20 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Now the autopsy report revealing she died of asphyxiation. I'm 21 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 22 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series X one 23 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: eleven and take a listen first to our France at 24 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: Katie v K. The day Bells told CBS that Chad 25 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: woke up frantic that morning when he discovered Tammy was dead. 26 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: They said it was their decision not Chads to buy 27 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: past the autopsy. They claimed the forty nine year old 28 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: was in quote failing health. She would get out of 29 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: breath very quickly and would get very tired, and she 30 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: started going to bed very early at night. According to 31 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: newspapers in Idaho, Chad told Tammy's father that she went 32 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: to bed with a terrible cough. Respiratory diseases are associated 33 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: with asphyxia, sleep Bathman's associated with asphyxia. So you know, 34 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: if you absolutely bathmia, how many people stop reading for 35 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: a little while. Doctor Franklovechio, a medical toxicologist, says that 36 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: asphyxia is a general term that usually means there's a 37 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: lack of oxygen. He says it can be caused by 38 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: something you and jest or inhale, including opiates, or from choking. 39 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: Is somebody going out on a lamb and saying that 40 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: this deeply religious woman asphyxiated because she was high on heroin. 41 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: Because I don't really believe that with me an all 42 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: star parliament. First, let me go to our friend and colleague, 43 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Nate Eaton has been on the story from the very beginning. 44 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: He's a news director at East Idaho News dot Com. 45 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: Nate really opiates what's next A piano fell, honor Well 46 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: the other team, Nancy. That I want to say is 47 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: that just two weeks before Tammy died, she spent time 48 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: by herself with her family members, and they have all 49 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: told me that she was just fine. She was healthy, 50 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: She was not complaining of being in ill health. She 51 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: drove seven eight hours to be with her family members 52 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: by herself. So this talk that she wasn't feeling well, 53 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: that she was going to bed earlier, No one outside 54 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: of the immediate family was saying anything like this, And 55 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: I don't get it. You know, I need you. Joe 56 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 57 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon starm a 58 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: great hit series. I think you have a special episode 59 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: dropping today Joe Scott Morgan Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. 60 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, I'm 61 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: hearing heroin as the possibility. You hear Nate eight and 62 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: describing a seven to eight hour drives she just took 63 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: on her own. Family was with her two weeks before. 64 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: All of that should factor in to the autopsy report decision. 65 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: But I never really associate asphyxia with being tired when 66 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: you go up the steps and out of breath. That 67 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: doesn't compute for me. No, it doesn't. You're not afraid 68 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: to tell me I'm wrong, are you, Joe Scott? Never? 69 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: Because if I am telling me so, I don't repeat 70 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: the same mistake over. I'll tell you you're wrong. I 71 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: guarantee you that in this case, you're not. I gotta 72 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: say this. You know, anytime you hear asphyxia, it's got 73 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 1: a nefarious undertone to it. But what about a medical examiner. 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: They may not feel that way. Well, what medical examiner 75 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: in this case? Because an autopsy wasn't performed for a 76 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: long long time, after all the evidence has gone and 77 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: that's the tragedy in this Nancy. But Ultimately it was decided. 78 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: Was it not, Nate eten that it was asphyxia as 79 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: the cod cause of death? How was that determined? Ate? 80 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: Because Jess Scott's right. The family. Now you hear in 81 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: that last sound I played for you, Thank you, Jackie. 82 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: The sound said that the family, the children decided not 83 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: to have an autopsy. A mommy who just mysteriously dies 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: in her sleep. Oh hell no, I would want to 85 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: know what happened. But they're not the ultimate decision makers. 86 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: Isn't that true? David Leroy Davey joining me out of 87 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: Boise He former Idaho attorney general. Wow, it's not like 88 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: this is your first murder case. Former Idaho Attorney General, 89 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: Lieutenant governor, prosecutor. Wow. You can find him at d 90 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: leroy dot com. Isn't it the husband the next of 91 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: ki And if the husband is deceased or you're divorced, 92 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: then you go to your child. But this was all 93 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: Chad day Bell's decision not to do an autopsy. I 94 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: don't care who's taken the fall this morning or if 95 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: she didn't make the decision. He set up the facts 96 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: that caused the locally elected coroner to make the decision 97 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: not all of our coroners in Idawa's forty four counties 98 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: are sophisticated in these matters. And whether he made the decision, 99 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: deferred from the county coroner, or convinced the county corner, 100 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: it was Chad's adventure solely. Now, when it looks like 101 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: a death by natural causes, David Leroy, if it looks 102 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: like a duck, it walks like a duck, it quacks 103 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: like a duck, it is a duck. So if the 104 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: circumstances are told to the coroner, who may or may 105 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: not be a medical doctor, they're elected, I think, or appointed. 106 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: If the coroner says, okay, yet natural cause is based 107 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: on what you're telling me, we don't need an autopsy. 108 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: Can't the next of ken ask for an autopsy, or 109 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: anybody can ask for one? But again it's the coroner's call. 110 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: And in Idaho, any suspicious, unattended death not under the 111 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: care of a medical doctor does get an examination by 112 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: that coroner. So obviously somebody missed some signals or somebody 113 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: was crossly inappropriately misled in this case. Okay, hold on 114 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: just a second, David Leroy, will you say those last 115 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: three sentences again about an unattended death results in autopsy 116 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: in your jurisdiction. No, it doesn't result in an autopsy. 117 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: It results in the corner making an examination and making 118 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: a decision. It can result in an autopsy, but it's 119 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: the coroner's call, exclusively. Coroner's call, exclusively. Guys, you were 120 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: just hearing our friends at kat VK three. I'll take 121 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: a listen again to Kim Powell. Tammy died in her 122 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: sleep in October twenty nineteen, and her kids told police. 123 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: State didn't want an autopsy done, and she was buried 124 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: in her hometown in Utah. Then two months later her 125 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: body had to be exhuomed. Now, the five day Belled 126 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: children told CBS News they were told she died of asphyxia, 127 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: but they're still not convinced their dad had anything to 128 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: do with it. On October ninth, Tammy day Bell posted 129 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: this on Facebook saying a guy in a ski mask 130 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: tried to shoot at her in her driveway outside of Rexburg, Idaho. 131 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: Ten days later, she died in her sleep and was 132 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: buried without an autopsy, and two weeks after that, her 133 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: husband of nearly thirty years, Chad day Bell, married Laurie Vallo. 134 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: Eventually investigators revealed they believed Alex Cox, Laurie's brother, was 135 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: that masked gunman at the end of Tammy's driveway. You know, 136 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: the masked gunman at the end of the driveway. That's 137 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms, which we are going 138 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: to get into. Nate eight and joining from East Idees 139 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: dot Com. Tell me about the whole exhimation process. Why 140 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: did that happen? Was there an octope after the exhimation 141 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: and that's how we know the cod was asphyxiation. Then 142 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to you, Joe Scott, so you 143 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: can tell me what that means. And regular people talk 144 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: hit at night. Well, Tammy died October twenty nineteen, three 145 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: months later in December in Utah. It was an early 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: early Saturday morning. The investigators went in, they exsumed her body. 147 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: She was back in the ground within a matter of hours. 148 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: An autopsy was completed. They did not release the information 149 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: that the autopsy was done for a year and a half. 150 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: Now I want to make it clear they have not 151 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: officially released the autopsy results. Chad kids have gone on 152 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: television and said what they've been told, And I have 153 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: sources close to the investigation that confirmed. They confirm it 154 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: was affixiation. A lot of people thought she was poisoned, 155 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: that there was some other, you know, nefarious way in 156 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: which she died, But multiple sources are saying it was 157 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: affixiation and that's what the children say. Investigators told them. So. Yes, 158 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: she was in the ground for three months before they 159 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: resumed her body and did the autopsy. Nate Eaton, do 160 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: we have any idea about the manner of death? She 161 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: died of asphyxiation, lack of oxygen? Was it manual or 162 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: ligature's triangulation? Was there the popping of the particularly in 163 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: the eyeball or their marks on the neck? Was a 164 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: pillow put over her head? And Joe Scott, you've got 165 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: to explain to us all how we were able to 166 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: tell the difference from a dead body. So is there 167 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: anything in an autopsy report you can tell us about, 168 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: Nate Eaton as two manner of death. No, they have 169 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: not released any of that. But what I can tell 170 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: you is that the night Tanny died, Alex Cox was 171 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: parked at a church two miles from the house. They 172 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: have pinned his cell phone. He was in that church 173 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: parking lot. So I believe that they're going to focus 174 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: on the fact that he was somehow involved with Chat 175 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: and Laurie in making this happen. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 176 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: I love to say, when you don't know a horse, 177 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: look at his trick record. There is Lori Valo's brother, 178 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: Alex Cox, appearing at so many deaths. He's the one 179 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: that took JJ out of the home. Everybody correct me 180 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, because there's so many facts to digest. 181 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: He's the one that took seven year old JJ out 182 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: of the home and his pj's. His body found later 183 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: wrapped in duct tape in the same pj's. I pray 184 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: to God they can get some type of fiber hair 185 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: or epiphilial cell evidence off that duct tape linking back 186 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: to Alex Cox. So you've got him connected to JJ. 187 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: You have him Alex Cox, as I recall in the 188 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: photo the last known photo of JJ Entailly where they're 189 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: taken to a national park just before their death. You 190 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: also have him gunning down and a false case of 191 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: self defense, one of the many husbands of cult mom 192 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: Laurie Vallo. So somehow he mysteriously appears when people drop dead, 193 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: and here he is pinging two miles away in an 194 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: empty parking lot. The same night, Tammy day Bell mysteriously 195 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: dies in her sleep by asphyxiation. Before I go to you, 196 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, hold all those medical thoughts, all those 197 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: death investigator thoughts, I want to go out to special 198 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: guests joining us in addition to David Leroy, Dotor, Sherry Schwartz, 199 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Nate Eaton, Leah Stilli. Leah is journalist 200 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: author of When the Moon Turns to Blood, Lorie Valo, 201 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: Chad day Bell, and a Story of Murder, Wild Faith 202 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: and in Times. But that's just one of her twelve books. 203 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: You can find her at Leah Stilli dot com, Leah 204 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: Avenging Angel. Alex Cox, I call him a massive murderer, 205 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: But what do you make of it? Well, when you 206 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: were just speaking about him, I was just thinking, don't 207 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: forget that. Alex Cox also teased Lorie Valo's third husband, 208 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: who then was found dead leader Thank you. No investigators 209 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: have looked into that death again. But yeah, I mean 210 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: he was Joseph Ryan. It does the brain exactly. And 211 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, Alexe Cox and Marie Vello have a really 212 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: inordinate and not normal amount of dead people around them, 213 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: and it's very strange. What do you make of the 214 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: determination of asphyxia as a cod cause of death for 215 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: Tammy day bo I mean, please, I don't have to 216 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: be a medical AMiner to figure out that. Lorie Valo, 217 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 1: using her husband's credit card hello his Amazon account, buys 218 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: her wedding dress will wait wait for it, and she 219 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: types in beach b e ac H correct me if 220 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, night eight, and I'm sure you will beach 221 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: wedding dress. And then they go to Hawaii and they 222 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: have a beach wedding two weeks after she orders a dress, 223 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: after Tammy day Bale dies in her sleep. I don't 224 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: need a medical degree to figure that out. You're eternally well. 225 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting because I think the story 226 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: of what happened to Tammy, you know, starts fracturing almost 227 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: immediately after she died. You know, you have this sort 228 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: of what I like to call the sump in the 229 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: night story that the children have told that you know, 230 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there was a sump in the 231 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: other room, and then she was half in the bed, 232 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: half out of it and just died suddenly. So strange. 233 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: But then you know. Chad was also telling story on 234 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: the website another voice of warning, saying she died peacefully 235 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: in her sleep. She had sort of smile on her face. 236 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe I didn't wake up in the night 237 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: to hear her. So these tales of what happened to her. 238 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: Almost immediately we're not gelling up. They want to follow 239 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: up on something you just said. Doctor Sherry Schwartz is 240 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: joining me. Forensic psychologist. I know, David Leroy, you're gonna 241 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: want in on this. Doctor Sherry Schwartz is, I said, 242 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: forensic psychologists specializing in and this is the name of 243 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: one of her books, where a law in psychology intersect. 244 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: She's also the author of Criminal Behavior. You can find 245 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: her at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry, I love it 246 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: when someone changes their story. I don't mean adding facts, 247 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: because when I would have a witness on the stand 248 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: and they would add a fact, I would blame that 249 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: on the prior questioner. They didn't ask the right questions, 250 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: they didn't ask enough questions. They didn't know about enough 251 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: about the material to ask detailed questions. So it's like, yeah, 252 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: I saw the wreck, and then upon further questioning, yeah, 253 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: I saw the wreck, but this guy was speeding and 254 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: cut in front of the other guy. And then the 255 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: next time, yeah, this car was red and that one 256 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: was blue. And upon next questioning, yeah, I went to 257 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: the scene. I walked over and the driver was drunk 258 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: as a skunk. See, if you don't ask all that 259 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: the first time, the story is embellished. But here we've 260 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: got two very different stories. She died peacefully in her 261 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: sleep with a smile on her face, But the children 262 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: say there was a big thump and she was half 263 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: in and half out of the bed. That doesn't go together, 264 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry, No, it certainly doesn't. This is inconsistent. And 265 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: it's also very troubling to me that he feels the 266 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: need to say, oh, no, she went peacefully. She died 267 00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: with a smile on her face, almost like, you know, 268 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: don't look too closely at this because there's nothing to 269 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: see here. Everything is good. She's gone now, My life 270 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: is good, you know. And wasn't there over four hundred 271 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollars life insurance policy that he cashed in on? 272 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: What about at night? Yeah. The same day that Tyley 273 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: was last seen at Yellowstone, Chad finned an application to 274 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: increase Tammy's life insurance to the maximum amount allowed under 275 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: the policy, four hundred and thirty thousand dollars. He then 276 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: tells Tammy that he had a vision that her grandfather 277 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,239 Speaker 1: came to him while he was working outside that she 278 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: needed to go see her family by herself, and that 279 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: they needed to spend time together. And meanwhile, he's telling 280 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: the other group that are in you know, his little 281 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: religious group, that Tammy's going to die in a car accident, 282 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: so they got the life insurance policy. He sends Tammy 283 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: to go see the family. He's telling people she's going 284 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: to die in the car crash. She returns home safe 285 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: and sound, then dies in her sleep two weeks later. Okay, 286 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: right now, I could just go ahead and make my 287 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: summation to the jury. David Leroy. David Leroy is no 288 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: stranger to a courtroom attorney at law Boise, former Idaho 289 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: Attorney General, former lieutenant governor, blah blah blah. I mean, 290 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: there's so much about him I can't even read at all. 291 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: David Leroy could just when a criminal defendant turns clairvoyant. 292 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: Nothing can make me happier, nothing, I'll answer. You may 293 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: be a little premature in your summation, because you must 294 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: anticipate that the defense will argue that a certain amount 295 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: of inconsistency is a hallmark of human truth in testimony, 296 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes a little defects of recollection jump in there, some 297 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: kind thumps in the night have no relationship to what 298 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: is actually going on. But you certainly have an argument 299 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: that clairvoyance is going to be a proper lematic for 300 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: the defense in this case. And we have seen it before. 301 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: Do I have to say? It actually makes my mouth hurt? 302 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson because just before Lacy Peterson goes missing with 303 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: her unborn son Connor, there later what they look wash 304 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: up at the San Francisco Bay where Scott Peterson was 305 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: fishing the day they go missing. Remember how he told 306 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: Amber Fry, his then mistress, who I ain't me and 307 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: it's a really nice person. Ps. He tells Amber Fry, Yeah, 308 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: this is going to be my first Christmas without my wife. 309 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: She died and then poof, she died. So either he 310 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: was clairvoyant or he is a killer. And here we've 311 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: gotten Nate Eaton. Coincidentally, on the day he ups his 312 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: life insurance policy to nearly half a million dollars on 313 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: his wife. He makes multiple clairvoyant predictions that she's going 314 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: to she needs to go visit her family now before 315 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: it's too late, sending her on an eight hour drive 316 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: by herself, and then reveals she's gonna die, and it 317 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: all came true. What about it, Nate, Well, not only 318 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: that you mentioned earlier in the show, Nancy, that the 319 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: gunman that showed up at her driveway that police later 320 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: say was Alex he thought it was She thought it 321 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: was a paintball gunman shooting at her. Well, it turns 322 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: out that around that time, investigators have Alex Cox practicing 323 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: how to shoot a gun at a gun range and 324 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: going to sportsman's warehouse and buying specific type of ammunition 325 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: and researching, excuse me, how to shoot these guns. So 326 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: they've got all of this evidence, They've got all of this, 327 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: you know, things on camera, things like that lead up 328 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: through these critical weeks up until Tammy's death. I can 329 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: tell you what's going to happen. He's going to be 330 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: the scapegoat at child. They're going to blame Alex Cox 331 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: because he's dead. To Leah Sotilli, journalist and author, off 332 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: when the moon turns to Blood, Lorie Valo Chad day 333 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: Bell on the story of Murder, Wild Fate and End Times. 334 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: Can I talk to you about the thump in the 335 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: night and Tammy day Bell half in and half out 336 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: of her bed? Could you elaborate on what you know? Well, 337 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: it's a bizarre it's a very bizarre story. I think 338 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: that just sounds strange. When Garth day Bell and his 339 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: siblings told the story on forty eight Hours, it was 340 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: it struck me as very odd that all of a 341 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: sudden he tells a story that he hears as something 342 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: the other room, and Chad yells for him to come 343 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: in and help, and he sees his mother, you know, 344 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: half in, half out of the bed, and Chad pacing 345 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: around the room, supposedly pointing at pictures on the wall 346 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: of their family, saying, how is this? How? How could 347 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: we you know, lose her? How is she gone? I 348 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: can't believe it. It's just a very odd story, and 349 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: it's it's never quite set right with me, and I 350 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: think anyone covering this case. But then to compare that 351 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: with Chad's own words saying that you know, she just 352 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: died so peacefully. These are just such disparate stories being 353 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: told that you can't help but question it right away. 354 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: So Lea's attilie. Is it correct that the children go 355 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: in the room, there's a thump, she's half in, she's 356 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: half out of the bed, and she's dead at that point, 357 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: that's what from from what they discussed, that's what it 358 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: sounded like. And then he goes off into a Shakespearean soliloquy, 359 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: David Leroy, you're the trial lawyer, But what are you 360 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: going to do with the case like that? Because I 361 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: had a case like that. Fyi. A millionaire in Atlanta 362 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: totally murdered his wife and he bashed her in the head, 363 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: then tried to burn the house down with the cop 364 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: scot there he was lying romanesque, lying on the lawn 365 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: across the street. The cops the fire people race up 366 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: to him. He starts talking about what he thinks started 367 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: the fire, and then he goes, oh, yeah, my wife's 368 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: in there anyway. At the hospital, he has this big soliloquy, 369 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: a monologue that he preaches out over her deathbed. I 370 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: was so happy anyway. It sounds like the same thing here. 371 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: Don't you love the soliloquies and the dramatization over somebody's deathbed. Well, 372 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: we all know that people experience things differently and react. Please, Oh, 373 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there will be some attempt to distinguish 374 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: the two stories. So perhaps she had just slipped out 375 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: of bed while she was having trouble breathing, was put 376 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: back on, etc. Etc. And somehow these two has got 377 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: disconnected in time. Yeah, okay, good luck with that, guys. 378 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: Of course the whole family blames Laurie Valo. But before 379 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: I get to call it mom, Laurie Valo, I want 380 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: to talk to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator who 381 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: has researched and studied the death of Tammy day Bell. 382 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: Don't you remember at some point Chad day Bell claimed 383 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: that there was a froth mixture, a liquidy, airy froth 384 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: coming from her mouth. What do you make of that? 385 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: And what do you make of cod cause of asphyxiation? 386 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: And how are we going to tell if it was 387 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: Emmanuel literature smothering or she just choked in her sleep 388 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: on what our tooth? Yeah, we got to go back 389 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 1: to October nineteenth, that morning when she was found and 390 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: it actually, and this even makes this even more intriguing, 391 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: it wasn't actually chat that made that assessment. It was 392 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: the daughter that witnessed her mother there and said that 393 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: she had froth coming either from her nose or her mouth. 394 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: She actually related this to neighbors. And I think this 395 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: is quite fascinating because this is something that we see 396 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: and many times folks at home can look this up. 397 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: It's referred to as a frothy edemitus cone. And we 398 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: see this in cases of heroin O D anything that 399 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: suppresses the respiratory system. We see it in drowning. Many 400 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: times you will actually see this present when you take 401 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: the body out of the water. It's quite fascinating to witness. 402 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: And then we'll also see it in various asphyxial deaths 403 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: where you're talking about manual strangulations. You see it a 404 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: lot in hangings, and what it's an indication of is 405 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: that the lungs are heavily congested. That means that they're 406 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: being compromised their ability to uptake oxygen, and so it's pink. 407 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: Many times it's a pink color. And I'm really wondering 408 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: in this particular case, is that what you're about to say? No, no, no, 409 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: We've heard this thing about asphyxia and it's kind of, 410 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, kind of seeped out, you know, into this narrative. 411 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: Even though the m down in Utah has yet to 412 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: make this comment, I'm wondering if they're correlating their data 413 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: that they're finding there at that exhimation with this comment 414 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: that was made by the daughter, did they actually because 415 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: let's remember, let's remember this as as as as our 416 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: colleague mentioned just a moment ago, this was the coroner's decision, 417 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: nobody else's. She could have easily have gone in drawn 418 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: blood and not done an autopsy. But she failed to 419 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: do that, Okay, And you could have had talks. You 420 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: ain't got talks to fall back on now, because body's 421 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: been in balmb body's been in the ground. What you're 422 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: looking for our physical findings. We're talking about Petikui eyes 423 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: a little ruptured. Aren't the eyes removed as part of 424 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: the burial process? No no, no, no, no, no no no, 425 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: they're not removed. They are not now. They're glued shut 426 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: many times. But that's that doesn't inhibit our ability to 427 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: examine the su the tiny blood vessels in the eyeball. Yeah, 428 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: and also the strap muscles of the neck. Nancy, you 429 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: can look in those areas around the neck. If there's 430 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: any focal areas of hemorrhage there, you can pick up 431 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: on that. Whether they are visible to the naked eye 432 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: or not they're bruising, can be yeah if they are. 433 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: But you know the thing about embalming, what's really cool 434 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: is it freezes all that stuff in time. You've lost 435 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: the blood, but you know these physical manifestations that we 436 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: look for as for as trauma stuff doesn't go away. 437 00:27:53,200 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, I want to talk about 438 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: the possibility and I'm getting this from one of the 439 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: children stating that there was a type of foamy substance 440 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: coming from either her mouth or her nose that can 441 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: happen when you have a suppressed respiratory system. What does 442 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: that mean? Suppressed respiratory system? Could she have been given 443 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: an od of benadrial, an od of NyQuil that suppressed 444 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: her system, that made it easier for her to die? 445 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: What about that? Joe Scott. Yeah, there's any number of 446 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: agents that can be applied. There are actually certain rape 447 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: drugs that can be applied, you know, things like we're 448 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: hibbanol and GHB and those sorts of things. Gama HYDROXB 449 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: to eight. Yes, yeah, and anything you know, any kind 450 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: of opiate, whether it's you know, kind of a naturally 451 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: occurring like a morphine type thing or a synthetic opiate. 452 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: You know that's out there, those types of things. If 453 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: you're odd, But how are you going to apply what 454 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: we were saying earlier? And everybody please jump in with 455 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: your thoughts. This is exactly how cases are created and presented. 456 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: If the attorney is worth their salt, they discuss it 457 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: with other attorneys or their investigator before they go up 458 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: in front of a jury. Guys, this is a story 459 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: as old as the Garden of Eden, where it's all 460 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: eves fought. Well, I can't necessarily say that's entirely wrong 461 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: in this case. Take a listen to our friend less 462 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: Shrent at Inside Edition. How did the kids feel when 463 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: their father remarried so soon after their mother's death. They were, 464 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: like everyone else that was closely following this story, shocked. 465 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: They had never heard the name Laurie Valo until she 466 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: went by another name, step mom. They were very upset 467 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: at first, but they have spent time with Lourie. They 468 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: spent time with her, in fact, celebrating Thanksgiving. But they said, 469 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: at no point were they aware of her two children? Yeah, 470 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: because they're dead. And also our friend Jonathan and Bigliotti 471 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: at Secrets of Chad day Bale's back yard on forty 472 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: eight hours looking back? Was your father meeting Laurie marrying 473 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: her the worst mistake of his life. Absolutely none of 474 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: this would have happened if Laurie Valo had never come 475 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: into my family's life. It's all her fault. I can't 476 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: disagree that she had a heavy hand in it. But 477 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: you know, what do you make of that, doctor Sherry 478 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: Schwartz the children assisting none of this would have happened 479 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: if she hadn't masterminded, if she hadn't made him do it. 480 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: S Yes, yes it is Nancy, But I have to 481 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: tell her from a victim of advocacy point of view, 482 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: people I think need to really give these children some grace. 483 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: They have lost their mother right shockingly. She's young and 484 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: healthy otherwise, and now she's gone. Two weeks later, dad 485 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: marries this woman that they've never heard of, they've never met, 486 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: they don't know anything about the kids, and then bodies 487 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: of children are found on their property, right you know 488 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: they I'm sure we're not immune to the news coverage, 489 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: and this is just a defense mechanism to trauma the denial. 490 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Agree Nan this, I completely agree with you. Go ahead, 491 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: jump in, Nancy. This foreshadows the finger pointing that's going 492 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: to occur during the trial, back and forth his fault 493 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: or fault, etc. If they both go to trial. This 494 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: is simply perhaps the first round of that. Guys, eggs 495 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: deeper or take a listen to again Johnson Bigliotti at 496 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: Our Friends forty eight hours? How did you process all 497 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: of that? That was really hard and it really surprised us, 498 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: and it was clear that he already had an emotional 499 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: connection with her. I know this is a difficult question, 500 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: but was your father having an affair with Lorie while 501 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: he was married to your mother? That depends on your 502 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: definition of affair. Emotionally, I would say yes that physically, 503 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: I think my father thought he was in the right 504 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: because I haven't had sex with her, so I'm being faithful. 505 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: M M isn't sure, you Nate at and you and 506 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: I discussed this on end off the camera. One of 507 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: Chad Daybale's pickup lines. I can't say that it would 508 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: appeal to me is that we lived in another life. 509 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: We both been reincarnated, and I was your husband in 510 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: a prior life, so we've already had sex, so might 511 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: as well do it again. Yeah. He talked about multiple 512 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: probations different states. Okay, could you please talk regular people 513 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: talk multiple What multiple probations? Are you saying probation? Like 514 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: you're sent us to five to two three three five 515 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: on probation? Yeah, meaning period of time that we all 516 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: his teachings, we all have multiple probations. And one of 517 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: the first things he said to Laurie when they met is, 518 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: we were married in a previous life of dear Lord 519 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: in heaven frey space, and you were a goddess. You 520 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: were a goddess. And by the way, you and I 521 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: were supposed to lead the return of Jesus Christ with 522 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty four thousand people. Please do not 523 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: drag Christ into a serial murder case. But I guess 524 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: you already have. What did you just say about Christ? 525 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: The return of Christ and one hundred forty four thousand saved. 526 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: They believed that they were going to lead lead the 527 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: return of Jesus Christ and that there would be tense 528 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: that they would live in the middle of a village. 529 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, and there would be tense 530 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: surrounding them, and that Christ would return to their village, 531 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: their town, and they would be part of the second Coming. 532 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: They would play a critical role in Christ's return. May 533 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: I ask you what that has to do with the 534 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: murderers of JJ Entily. Well, I would imagine that the 535 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: prosecutors are going to argue that they needed to get 536 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: rid of JJ Nentily, and they were telling others that 537 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: they could fulfill their mission, so that this was part 538 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: of it, that this was all part of it, and 539 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: that because we all have these multiple lives, JJ Nentily's 540 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: lives would continue on and they would see them again 541 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: according to their teachings we did to Nate Eton before 542 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: I moved further into their bizarre religious beliefs. I'm convinced 543 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: that a prior attempt had been made on Tammy day 544 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: Bell's life. You alluded to it earlier. A couple of 545 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: weeks before she finally did die of asphyxiation in her 546 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: own home, in bed with her husband, Chad day Bell, 547 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: someone took a shot at her, a couple of shots. 548 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: She thought it was a prank and that they were 549 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: paintball bullets. Not real bullets. We now know for sure 550 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: that the prankster was the so called Avenging Angel, Laurie 551 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: Valla's brother, Alex Cox. In fact, Tammy Daville posted about 552 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: the incident, not connecting any nefarious intent to it, on 553 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: her Facebook. Correct. Do you remember that? Yeah, it was 554 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: October ninth. She got home, it was dark. She said, 555 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: she got out of the car and someone started firing 556 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: at her. They were wearing a ski match. She said, 557 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,919 Speaker 1: what are you doing? And the person took off After 558 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: she yelled for help from Chad. She went on Facebook 559 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: to warn the neighbors. I mean, this is a very 560 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: rural area, but she said, hey, just so you know, 561 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: this weird experience happened. She actually called the police, They 562 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 1: took a report, They talked it up to a prank, 563 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: and then two weeks later she was dead. Question to you, 564 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: Leah's Attilli, journalist and author of When the Moon Turns 565 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: to Blood? How many deaths can we link to Alex Cox, 566 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: Lorie Valo's brother. I mean, it's a it's a range. 567 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: We've got the information from his cell phone that puts 568 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 1: him in the Daybo backyard. Obviously, when when the children 569 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: were likely buried there you have Charles Valo, Laurie's ex husband, 570 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: UM in Arizona in his so called self defense shooting 571 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: of him. Um, you've got potentially a connection to the 572 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,439 Speaker 1: death of her third husband, Joseph Bryan, who he had 573 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: aggressively tasted and had gone to jail for that incident. Um, 574 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: you've got this incident that we're discussing with Tammy Davil. 575 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: So there there's a number of people who are around 576 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: this brother, sister duo. Did you mention j j Entile? Yes, yeah, yeah, 577 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: the found in the backyard. Now, I want to circle 578 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: back to something David Leroy said earlier about the decision 579 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: not to perform an autopsy on Tammy. We now know 580 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: her death was by asphyxiation. Take a listen to our 581 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: cut one our friend Spinster Blake at three TVCBS. Not 582 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: long after Tammy da Bell died in her home in Salem, Idaho, 583 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: in mid October, the Fremont County Sheriff's Office received a 584 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: call from a detective in Arizona's going to be a 585 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: camera A d. Bell. Oh yes, I was the one 586 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: that actually took that call. So why from Arizona wanted 587 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: to us crazy? Yeah? The funny how everything ties together. 588 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,439 Speaker 1: We just have some paces down here that they got 589 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: our attention, which Dave Belle. The cases he's talking about 590 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: could include the attempted shooting of a relative of Laurie Valo, 591 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: Dave Bell, in Gilbert in October, or the July shooting 592 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: death of Laurie's late husband, Charles Valo in Chandler. Laurie 593 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: married Tammy's husband, Chad day Bell, less than two weeks 594 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: after Tammy died. At the time, the Sheriff's office investigated 595 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: and said they found nothing suspicious. The coroner ruled the 596 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: death was due to natural causes. The dispatcher explains to 597 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: the Arizona detective. It wasn't just a coroner who didn't 598 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: want to press the investigation any further. The family did 599 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: not want an autopsy, so they just went straight to 600 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: your home and the family in the family that they 601 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 1: don't want an autopsy either for the corner to find 602 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: off and there and on the funeral. Yeah, yeah, I 603 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: got a problem with that. The family, as I said earlier, 604 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: made it clear they did not want an autopsy on 605 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: Tammy day Belle. Why because when our bodies exhumed, we 606 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: find out the causes asphyxia, And to you, are we 607 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: going to ever be able to tell do you think 608 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: to Scott Morgan whether it was manual ligature suffocation? What? 609 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: Just a simple yes, no, yes, I think we will. Um, 610 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: I got a question for you, Lea's Attilli, journalist and author. 611 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: How do you believe that their religious beliefs played into 612 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: this scenario? Well, I think that's what drew my interest 613 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,479 Speaker 1: in the cases that my journalism is about extremism, and 614 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: what I saw in this case were extremist ideologies that 615 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 1: were playing out throughout. I mean, just look to Chad 616 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: Dayville's fictional books he had years and years before he 617 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: ever met Laurie Valle of entertaining conspiracy theories of um, 618 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, teachings that are absolutely fringe of the fringe 619 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: of the eldest Um. Well, things like what we were 620 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: discussing earlier, multiple probations this idea. I mean, the word 621 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: zombie comes up in this case and that never comes 622 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: up in anything related to the Eldis Church. So there 623 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: there's this um long history of him entertaining ideas that 624 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: the leadership of the LDS Church has said, this is 625 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: not what we believe. But Chad Dayville was holding meetings 626 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: and and um small study groups about these ideas um 627 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: that are that are kind of around the very edges 628 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: of this of this faith jury might as Welt settle in. 629 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: This is going to be a long and tedious trial 630 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: when it ever happens, and when will that be? Nate Eaton. 631 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: It's scheduled to begin January ninth, and it's scheduled for 632 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: ten weeks. So who's going first? They're being tried together. Oh, 633 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: I'm so happy. Then we can watch them point the 634 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: finger at each other or their lawyers. These two, once 635 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: they start making lovey w eyes at each other in court, 636 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: may not point the finger. I think they're going to 637 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: both point the finger at Alex Cox because he's dead 638 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: and can't respond well. Nancy. Of course, there's some possibility 639 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: that the defense lawyers intersea is between themselves and with 640 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: the prosecutor, are exploring the possibility of having one of 641 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: them turn state's evidence against the other. Theoretically possible, but 642 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: perhaps not entirely consistent with their religious and extreme beliefs. 643 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: Well put, David Leroy, Nate Eaton, just yes, no, is 644 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 1: there a death in that jurisdiction. There isn't prosecutors are 645 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: going for death on both cases. We wait as justice 646 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: un falls. Nancy Grace crime story, Sunny Off, Goodbye Friend,