WEBVTT - Ep6: Civil Rights and How to Make a Cup of Chai 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.520 Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:14.440 Sound Argument. I'm definitely having dreams about this trial, having 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.560 dreams that I'm like in court, like full on trial, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:22.520 getting objected to, objecting myself, and it's actually, you know, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.200 encompassing every part of my life now. I can't even 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.800 get a good, nice rest without dreaming about trial. It 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.200 took a nap the other day and I had a 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.760 dream that RBG came into my dream. I was in 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.400 court and she was getting mad at me that I 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.479 wasn't objecting. Love. It's scary living Jesus out of me. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.879 I was literally in court and opposing counsel was just 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.920 you know, giving their director cross and she's one of 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.160 the judges, and she's just like looking at me like 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.400 why aren't you objecting? This is objectionable object And I'm 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.200 just like, don't know how to object, I don't know 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.000 what to say. Oh my god, I'm losing my mind. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.400 And she's just like getting annoyed with me. That would 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.640 just made me really sad. I was like, I can't. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.839 That's just the worst things in life, letting her down 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.360 like that. She's one of my idols, being a woman 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.080 in the legal profession. It's not easy, and I hope 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.479 things will change, and honestly, sometimes I have to be like, 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.759 just take a deep breath. You can do it, because 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.360 she has a little insecure and I think she came 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.479 into my dream and it was like smacking that out 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:36.319 of my mind. I am, as you know from my 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:41.200 responses to your questionnaire. A Brooklyn Knight born in britt 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:48.240 A first generation American on my father's side, barely second 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:53.840 generation on my mother's. Neither of my parents had the 0:01:53.880 --> 0:02:00.360 means to attend college, but both taught me to love learning, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:08.280 to care about people, and to work hard for whatever 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:15.040 I wanted or believed in. Their parents had the foresight 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.400 to leave the Old Country when Jewish ancestry and faith 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:27.200 meant exposure to put RUMs and denigration of one's human worth. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:35.800 What has become of me could happen only in America. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:43.440 Like so many others, I owe so much to the 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:56.120 entry this nation afforded two people yearning to breathe free. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:01.760 In October, Broken Law School sent an all female team 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.520 of second year law students to the Martin Luther King 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.600 Civil Rights Competition, held virtually from the University of California Davis. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.400 The team is coached by third year students. They argue 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.080 their case four different times in one weekend against some 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.760 of the top rising legal talent in the country. Then 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.720 we saw Harvard, So we're all kind of just completely 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.320 silent on the edge of our seats. We did notice 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.200 that it was an all male team against an all 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:39.120 female team. For these young idealists, the mock trial was 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.600 a chance to see how their arguments could play out 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.000 in the real world of American law. So you referred 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.360 to homelessness as a cancer, and you referred to homelessness 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.600 as causing the decay of America. Yes, it's Closingay, that's correct. 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.360 Where justice can be scarce and litigation is often a 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:15.920 bare knuckled brawl. I'm Katie Fang. Welcome back to class action. Okay, 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:22.320 everyone ready for the scrummage? Yeah, Samantha, you're ready. I'm 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.279 just kidding my time. Hang. Okay, Well here, let's just 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.200 let's go with Bree Child. Start with great drop. You're 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.480 listening to episode six, Civil Rights and how to make 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:39.040 a cup of chi Running your Honor. We begin to 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.880 plaintiff has some passkeeping matters to attend to. Okay, well, 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:47.359 let's start with um introductions. I was born and raised 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.279 in New York City, and I went to public school 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.080 my whole life. My name is Ellie Sands. I'm a 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.599 second year law student at Brooklyn Law School. My full 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.720 name is Aliana, but I go by l A. After college, 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.360 I came back to New York and I was a 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.960 teacher in East Harlem. Just teaching at a school forty 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.880 blocks north of where I went to high school felt 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.240 like I was in a third world country. There were 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.480 things going on outside the school, like gang violence. There 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.760 were things going on in my students Famili's incarceration that 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.719 were severely impacting their ability to learn and perform in 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.279 the school environment that was being ignored and was being 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:36.440 disciplined harshly. I knew that it wasn't right. I ended 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.000 up coming to law school because I couldn't make the 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.480 kind of impact I wanted to without a lot of 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.920 great without being able to sit in the courtroom and 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.920 advocate on behalf of the clients that I was working with. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.680 And I specifically wanted to do a civil rights competition 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.400 because that's the type of law I want to practice 0:05:55.560 --> 0:06:00.760 once I graduate. Good afternoon. My name is Stubi Manicer, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.440 and I also represent the defendant Travis Gordon in today's case. 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.000 My grandmother was a social worker for survivors of domestic violence. 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.760 Between her impact that she's had on me and my 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.640 general interest, that's brought me to the victim advocacy throughoute 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.880 UM working for a Court Room Advocates project where survivors 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.520 of domestic violence reach out to us and we walked 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.080 them through the process of filing for their petition for 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.920 an order of protection and family court. And then this 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.640 summer I was an intern in the Domestic Violence Bureau 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.800 at the Brooklyn DA's office, working with misdemeanors. I think 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.440 the way people enter the system through domestic violence is 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:47.640 interesting because it's not their choice. I find having connection 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.880 with a victim and having their perspective is so important 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:57.760 in doing justice. Good morning, your honor. My name is 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.320 Catherine Boyko, and I, along with my co counselor, present 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:05.000 the defendant Travis Gorton in today's case. I was born 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.640 in Brooklyn, New York. My parents were born in Ukraine 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.160 and my mom was a lawyer back in Ukraine. My 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.960 mom had to leave her home country to make sure 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.640 I had a better life, so it was really important 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.560 for me to carry on those dreams, carry on that ambition. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.640 It's important to me personally because I see that you 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.440 know from personal work experience that there are so many 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.160 things that are just not right with the criminal justice 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.480 system that I don't want to be overly ambitious and 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.720 say that I'm going to be the person that fixes 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.040 all of it, but I definitely want to play a 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.200 part in that, to do what I can to make 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.120 things better for other people, defend people who can't really 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:56.080 stand up for themselves. Good afternoon, counselors. My name is 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.720 Antony Shawn. I represent the plaintiff, Miss Raley Taylor today. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.040 This is the first time I've ever done this. There 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.560 are challenges. They're really just associated with, I think, overcoming 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:11.120 your own discomfort and your own vulnerabilities and attacking those 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.280 head on. For example, I think I am a very 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.520 non adversarial person, and obviously in a courtroom setting, it's 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.400 an adversarial setting, so you do have people who are 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.040 opposing counsel who are trying to potentially rile you up 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:30.000 or potentially trying to make frivolous objections just to throw 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.280 you off, and so dealing with that sort of discomfort 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:38.160 has been challenging, but it's also something to confront before 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.000 you actually get into a courtroom one day. Aeny is 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:48.240 the plaintiff defense Atene is the defense. A and Nelly 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.040 have spent most of their law school years on Zoom, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.960 so it's only natural that they would be excited about 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.200 being in court and in person. So right now we're 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.760 in the Brooklyn Law School court room. So basically what 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.040 it looks like. There is a jury box, there is 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.240 a witness stand, there's a place where the judge sits um, 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.280 and there is a giant audience. Portion of this room 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.200 takes that most of the room. The party with the 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.520 burden of proof sits closest to the jury, So the 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.839 plaintiff or the prosecution sits closest to the jury. So 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.480 the plaintiff would sit here and then the defense would 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.120 sit at the table farthest from the jury box. They've 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.040 got to feel out the jury more. They've got the burden, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.959 and so I think the person with the burden really 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.960 has to convince the jury. It's better to be in 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.800 close proximity because the closer you are to the jury, 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.479 the more likely they are to see that council tables reactions, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.000 you know they're more likely to hear what they have 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.240 to say. And the point of a direct examination is 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:56.240 that you want the jury to be paying attention to 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.560 the witness. You don't want the jury to be looking 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:00.520 at you. You are not the star of the show. 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.479 Your witnesses the star of the show. Whereas on cross examination, 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.440 so I'll be doing cross of this witness if Ellie 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.439 is actually directing. So I stand here because I want 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.080 the jury to see me and my reactions, and you, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.160 as the witness, are now looking at me and not them, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.920 So that actually has quite an effect on the jury 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:28.040 as well, when you're diverting your eyes away from them. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.280 I'm the closer. So the difference between opening and closing 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.520 is that in closing you are reviewing all of the 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.240 evidence that you brought in during your case in chief, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.480 so it's less scripted and more a summary of everything 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.800 that came out during trial, a lot of which can 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.720 be unpredictable, some of which could be good for your side, 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.000 some of which could be bad for your side. So 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.800 you have to be agile and sort of improvise some 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.080 of what comes out in the closing. You also have 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.880 to flip the other side's theme that means that you 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:08.200 want to turn the other side argument against them. So 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.920 right now we're really ramping up for competition. It's less 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.240 than a week away, or about actually a week away. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.840 It's a very intimidating process to present a case. You know, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.240 as law students were so unfamiliar with this and over 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.400 zoom it's a whole other challenge. My name is Jane Dowling. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.760 I am the coach of the U. C. Davis Martin 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:35.559 Luther King Civil Rights Competition. Confidence is really key. We're 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.559 not really making like substantive changes at this point. It's 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.360 just sort of running through the material, practicing, honing in 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.640 on some details, getting pumped up. Of course, we're law students. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.120 We all have strong personalities. Like you don't come to 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.080 law school if if you don't have a strong volitions 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:56.400 and strong opinions. Brooklyn Law was founded in nine one 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:01.160 to serve working people, women, ethnic minority these and immigrants. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.360 The school is across German Street from the Justice Ruth 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.439 Bader Ginsburg Municipal Building, on a stretch of pavement now 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:14.160 named Black Lives Matter Boulevard. German Street runs down to 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.000 the East River, an area that once held molasses and 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.640 sugar refineries, both industries that were rooted in America's slave 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.480 owning past. The young advocates on the Brooklyn Law Team 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.360 keep that history in mind as they pack up their 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.079 laptops and coffee and they fight through traffic to school 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.560 every day. The building faces Cabin Plaza Park, just blocks 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.200 away from the Brooklyn Bridge. In the last few years, 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:47.280 Cabin Plaza has become the epicenter of many of Brooklyn's 0:12:47.360 --> 0:13:08.120 most heated protests. My name is Stacy Kaplow, and I'm 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.560 a professor of Blood Brooklyn Law School, the very progressive 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.800 and liberal student body here in New York. I'm also 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.320 the associate dean for experiential Education at the law School. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.719 It's what's called a standalone school. In other words, were 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.000 not part of a larger university. So as a school, 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.920 we have a lot of independence and kind of nimble 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:34.840 in terms of what we can and kind of do. 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.080 Because we're located in the heart of New York, we 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:43.680 have access to all sorts of resources within what is 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.840 clearly the largest legal community in the world. So our 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.320 students are out there all the time working, as well 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.720 as obviously going to school and learning how to become lawyers. 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.199 The Brooklyn team has worked on arguments for both sides 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.000 of the problem for the King competition, and they have 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.560 to picture what could possibly come at them. Whether they're 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.960 representing the plaintiff or the defense, they have to be 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.240 ready for anything. An overview of this case is that 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.480 an executive order was put into place by the governor 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.720 of a made up state called the State of Columbia. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:25.560 This executive order implemented what is called a shelter station, 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.720 which is supposed to take homeless individuals off of the 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.640 street and help give them a place to stay, food 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.840 to eat, a roof over their head. The plaintiff is 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:42.160 bringing an a commendment prol and unusual constitutional violation against 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.280 the defendant. Firstly, a homeless person is taken to shelter 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.520 station against their will. It's a detention center for which 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.440 they do not know how long they will be detained for. 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.640 A homeless person must complete classes in English and math, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:04.960 they must several hygiene requirements, they have to engage in 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.720 a job while they're at the shelter station. And lastly, 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.600 and perhaps most burdensome, and they have to prove that 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.480 they have permanent housing before they're released. But they're unable 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.960 to save up money while they're at the shelter station. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:26.160 The competition is the Martin Luther King Civil Rights Trial 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.640 Practice Competition. You See Davis School of Law has been 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:34.000 hosting that now for the last four years. I'm Dennis Coda. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.480 I supervised the trial practice program at you see Davis 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:45.320 King Hall. I am a magistrate judge for the Eastern 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:50.880 District of California. There's a new option to help get 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.480 dozens of people off the streets of Sacramento. This is 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.880 the city's newest homeless shelter. Up to one people will 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.360 begin staying here next week. The X Straight Navigation Shelter 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.120 is near Broadway at Alhambra. It is more than just 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.440 a place to sleep, though. There's also life skills classes, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.960 recovery assistance, medicare care, and financial counseling, as well as 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:15.760 services for help people transition from homelessness to permanent housing. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.480 Being in a city where you're having to step over 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.520 the people living on the sidewalk made me realize that 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:31.760 this is a societal issue with no easy solutions, and 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:37.120 I thought this would be a good topic because these people, 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.880 while they're clearly creating a strain on their community still 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:48.480 have rights, They're still citizens. Martin Luther King is a 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:56.600 towering figure in the civil rights area, and as we've 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:01.400 struggled to realize the American dream, let us realize if 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:08.159 we do not struggle alone. The law school at U C. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:14.240 Davis is named after Martin Luther King. The students daily 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:20.040 walk past a life size ceramic figure of the late 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:28.639 civil rights leader in the lobby of King Hall, even 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:33.520 though that of difficult days ahead, even though before the 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.440 victory is won, somebody else will have to get scotta, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.480 somebody else will have to go to jail. Maybe some 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.840 will have to stay physical death for the victors one 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:50.240 some would be just understood, called bad names, be this mist, dangerous, 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.480 rabbit rousers, and agitated. Even in the mist, that's the 0:17:54.560 --> 0:18:13.359 struggle must go on. In the run up to the event, 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.119 the Brooklyn Team practices against mystery teams, made up of 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.280 alumni who volunteer to help the two Whales get ready 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:26.880 to compete. The only job you ever had was babysitting. Correct? Yes? 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.960 Oh wait, wait, what the hell is I'm not the witness. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.879 Oh my god, I'm sorry, I'm the I'm the attorney. Okay, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.080 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry so sorry to be 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.160 back up. You take it away. I will be the attorney. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.959 They go at it night and day. That is all 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.280 for defense, Okay, Okay, plaintiff, do you have any additional 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.720 house giving matters to address? Yeah, your honor. We just 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.480 asked that everything that applied to defense also applies to plaintiff, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:59.160 of course, and also as a as an aside, your honor, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.919 do too my own version of cruel and unusual punishment 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.160 from back to back horses. I may be eating throughout 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.280 because I haven't had any food since I don't know 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.159 how long, So if you've seen me eating, I'm sorry, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.639 No problem at all. Thanks for the heads up. Okay, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.360 any other housekeeping matters from Lindon the practice judges talk 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.879 strategy to bring the four Nubies up to speed, just 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.800 keep your answers to yes or noltees. The witness if 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.600 chances the question can answer, however, she deals counsel. If 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.040 you're not getting the answers you want, you might want 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.480 to narrow your questions a little bit. Hey, sorry, Anna, 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:44.880 don't apologize to me. Okays. Off, It all comes down 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.800 to for students and a coach or two in a 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:55.160 room working hard. That's Adam schlahead coach at Fordham University 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.560 and one of our commentators, thinking about the case and 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.760 arguing and figuring it out and practicing and running it again. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.760 That's the same at every single law school. It's what 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.960 happens in that little room. The learning happens in that 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.439 little room. Resources don't give anybody an advantage in that 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.160 little room. You need people who really care about this 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.040 and care about the students learning, and students who are motivated. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.120 You know, you can get that anywhere, and you need 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.040 to really tie yourself very very closely to the law. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.400 Laura Basilon is a former federal public defender who now 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.320 teaches at the University of San Francisco School of Law 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.600 and runs its highly acclaimed racial Justice Clinic. It's not 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.840 enough to just have bravado and style if there's nothing 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.119 else behind it. You have to absolutely understand what the 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.359 governing law is and if you're the prosecutor, be prepared 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.240 to prove every element, and if you're the defense counsel, 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.760 figure out which elements you don't need to contest and 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.000 which ones you do. So, Laura, when you're working with 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.760 your students, is there something that you do to be 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.240 able to say to them. Look, on one end, you 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.080 can't have an over zealous prosecution, but also on the 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:07.760 other end, you can't have criminal defense attorneys that have 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.000 blinders on. How do you work with your students to 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.159 let them know that this is a possibility when they 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.520 go out into the real world. I think it is 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.000 really important to be honest about the fact that we 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:20.960 have a lot of failings in this system, and they're 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.560 on both sides. So you're right. There are plenty of 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.600 over zealous prosecutors. There are prosecutors who suffer from tunnel vision. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.560 There are prosecutors who commit misconduct, most of them not intentionally, 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.880 but because they haven't been trained properly or they get 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.480 caught up in the moment. At the same time, there 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.320 are plenty of defense attorneys who are not doing their jobs. 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.119 They may be poorly trained, they may be overwhelmed, or 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.600 they may quite frankly, just be lazy. And we have 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.360 had many, many cases where the level of advocacy at 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.800 the trial court on behalf of our post conviction clients 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:59.320 has been absolutely abysmal. We're in good shape, but the 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.320 more I learn about their situation, the more just devastating. 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.440 It is. I'm also blown away by how kind and 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.080 optimistic she is the more I learned. I mean, the 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.760 system fails her over and over and over again, and 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:17.000 she just continues to be the most wonderful person. Yeah, 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.399 and she'll also text us and say like, how are 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.919 you feeling today? Like, thank you so much for everything 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:26.520 you're doing. She's just she's so grateful, so sweet. In 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.520 addition to trial team Ellie and third year law student Regina, 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.080 you are working together on a real world case for 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:38.200 the Brooklyn Defender Service. Any law school these days would 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.200 have to have some clinical offerings, but we've been doing 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.480 this for fifty years now. Stacy Caplow is the supervisor 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.720 for the clinic. Most students here fro the law school, 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.480 by the time they're finished, have three, four, maybe even 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:56.880 five semesters of experiences in either in our clinics, which 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.080 are in house or off campus in offices all over 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.760 the city. So that's the annoying forum that the Pardon 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.920 office requires. So how far along are we on the forum? 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:13.560 Actually almost done? Um, most of it's filled out. So 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:17.520 our client is a woman and a mother and a 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:22.880 daughter and has been in this country from at least 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.399 half of her life and all of her adult life. 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:31.200 She first came here as a young teenager and had 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.600 lawful status in the US, but as a result of 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.920 a single mistake she made that violated federal law, she 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:45.400 was prosecuted, convicted, served a sentence, and then was put 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:51.679 into deportation proceedings. So one form of relief that we 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.720 can try to obtain for them is to get a 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.920 pardon from the President, and that pardon has the possibility 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:03.440 of acting as, in effect, a defense to their deportation. 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:07.960 Not a lot of people get pardons. You still want 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:12.760 to do this, yeah, all right, good with all the 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:15.640 aggravating details. That's what makes me want to do it more. 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:22.400 I do by far and the most meaningful yes, yeah, okay, 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.679 good good. I know Ellie from working with her this 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:32.280 semester in the clinic, and she is dogged, but also 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:39.520 has extremely warm and pleasant way of expressing herself. And 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:42.639 I think she's a good example, as is a Jany. 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.800 If there's a way that you put yourself out there 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.280 and you present yourself, be true to yourself, they really 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:52.800 don't need to yell and scream um. They can just 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:58.760 be calm, collected and forceful without having to pound the table. 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.840 So on Friday, around one o'clock, we had a little 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.119 team get together over Zoo like we would in like 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:13.040 a locker room sort of. This is a jenny pump 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:15.760 each other up, let each other know that we're not 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.720 going to be more ready than we are today, Like 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:21.800 we were about to go into a game, and it 0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:24.399 was like leave it on the scoreboard, and then in 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:29.440 the hour right before we actually entered the competition room. 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.880 I have some like personal rituals that I do which 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:38.520 include listening and dancing to a very embarrassing Aretha Franklin 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:47.200 respect by myself in my room alone. It's I actually 0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:49.760 have not even like admitted that to a lot of people, 0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:53.919 So it's a very sacred ritual to me. Well, you 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:56.639 just admitted it, probably to a lot of people. But 0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:06.160 that's okay, it's out. It's out now exactly very well, plaintiff, 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:09.280 are you ready to proceed with openings? Yes, your honor, 0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:14.360 we're ready to proceed very well. You may proceed. A veteran, 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:20.720 a patriot, a United States citizen stripped of the rights 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:25.639 she risked her life to protect, may please the court. 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:30.119 Opposing counsel members of the jury. My name is A 0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:33.080 Jenny Shaw, and I, along with my co council, Miss 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:37.080 Eli Sands, represent the plaintiff, Ms Riley Taylor. In today's case, 0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.560 A Jenny opens as Brooklyn Law takes on the University 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:46.040 of Connecticut in round one. It's her team's first appearance 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:50.520 ever at a competition, and after she was honorably discharged, 0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:53.959 she again answered the call to keep our country safe 0:26:54.080 --> 0:27:00.640 as a mechanic on military aircrafts. Unfortunately, you will learn 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:04.560 that Miss Taylor was let go from her job, and 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:08.000 just after she was let go, you will hear that 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:14.000 her welfare check started getting smaller and smaller. So Miss 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:19.119 Taylor became just another data point in the city of 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:25.439 Oakland's growing homeless population. The Brooklyn team argues that the 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:29.720 plaintiff has value and humanity. They deny that the homeless 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:33.480 were rounded up in order to help them. Instead, Brooklyn 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:38.680 insists the homeless were arrested for being poor. Now, Chick 0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:44.919 Gordon business was better in downtown Oakland, sure, yeah, but 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:50.520 the homeless population still existed. Yes, we were not able 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:56.160 to eradicate it completely. He referred to homeless individuals as 0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:02.800 skid row rejects. I may have them. You referred to 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:08.840