1
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,520
Speaker 1: Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and

2
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: Sound Argument. I'm definitely having dreams about this trial, having

3
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,560
Speaker 1: dreams that I'm like in court, like full on trial,

4
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: getting objected to, objecting myself, and it's actually, you know,

5
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: encompassing every part of my life now. I can't even

6
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 1: get a good, nice rest without dreaming about trial. It

7
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 1: took a nap the other day and I had a

8
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: dream that RBG came into my dream. I was in

9
00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: court and she was getting mad at me that I

10
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 1: wasn't objecting. Love. It's scary living Jesus out of me.

11
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,879
Speaker 1: I was literally in court and opposing counsel was just

12
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, giving their director cross and she's one of

13
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160
Speaker 1: the judges, and she's just like looking at me like

14
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 1: why aren't you objecting? This is objectionable object And I'm

15
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 1: just like, don't know how to object, I don't know

16
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 1: what to say. Oh my god, I'm losing my mind.

17
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,400
Speaker 1: And she's just like getting annoyed with me. That would

18
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: just made me really sad. I was like, I can't.

19
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,839
Speaker 1: That's just the worst things in life, letting her down

20
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 1: like that. She's one of my idols, being a woman

21
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 1: in the legal profession. It's not easy, and I hope

22
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,479
Speaker 1: things will change, and honestly, sometimes I have to be like,

23
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,759
Speaker 1: just take a deep breath. You can do it, because

24
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 1: she has a little insecure and I think she came

25
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,479
Speaker 1: into my dream and it was like smacking that out

26
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 1: of my mind. I am, as you know from my

27
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 1: responses to your questionnaire. A Brooklyn Knight born in britt

28
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: A first generation American on my father's side, barely second

29
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 1: generation on my mother's. Neither of my parents had the

30
00:01:53,880 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 1: means to attend college, but both taught me to love learning,

31
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: to care about people, and to work hard for whatever

32
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 1: I wanted or believed in. Their parents had the foresight

33
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,400
Speaker 1: to leave the Old Country when Jewish ancestry and faith

34
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:27,200
Speaker 1: meant exposure to put RUMs and denigration of one's human worth.

35
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 1: What has become of me could happen only in America.

36
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 1: Like so many others, I owe so much to the

37
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: entry this nation afforded two people yearning to breathe free.

38
00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: In October, Broken Law School sent an all female team

39
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: of second year law students to the Martin Luther King

40
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: Civil Rights Competition, held virtually from the University of California Davis.

41
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,400
Speaker 1: The team is coached by third year students. They argue

42
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,080
Speaker 1: their case four different times in one weekend against some

43
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 1: of the top rising legal talent in the country. Then

44
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: we saw Harvard, So we're all kind of just completely

45
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 1: silent on the edge of our seats. We did notice

46
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 1: that it was an all male team against an all

47
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: female team. For these young idealists, the mock trial was

48
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,600
Speaker 1: a chance to see how their arguments could play out

49
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 1: in the real world of American law. So you referred

50
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 1: to homelessness as a cancer, and you referred to homelessness

51
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 1: as causing the decay of America. Yes, it's Closingay, that's correct.

52
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 1: Where justice can be scarce and litigation is often a

53
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: bare knuckled brawl. I'm Katie Fang. Welcome back to class action. Okay,

54
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 1: everyone ready for the scrummage? Yeah, Samantha, you're ready. I'm

55
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,279
Speaker 1: just kidding my time. Hang. Okay, Well here, let's just

56
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: let's go with Bree Child. Start with great drop. You're

57
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: listening to episode six, Civil Rights and how to make

58
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:39,040
Speaker 1: a cup of chi Running your Honor. We begin to

59
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: plaintiff has some passkeeping matters to attend to. Okay, well,

60
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,359
Speaker 1: let's start with um introductions. I was born and raised

61
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,279
Speaker 1: in New York City, and I went to public school

62
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,080
Speaker 1: my whole life. My name is Ellie Sands. I'm a

63
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,599
Speaker 1: second year law student at Brooklyn Law School. My full

64
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,720
Speaker 1: name is Aliana, but I go by l A. After college,

65
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 1: I came back to New York and I was a

66
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: teacher in East Harlem. Just teaching at a school forty

67
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,880
Speaker 1: blocks north of where I went to high school felt

68
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,240
Speaker 1: like I was in a third world country. There were

69
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,480
Speaker 1: things going on outside the school, like gang violence. There

70
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: were things going on in my students Famili's incarceration that

71
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 1: were severely impacting their ability to learn and perform in

72
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 1: the school environment that was being ignored and was being

73
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 1: disciplined harshly. I knew that it wasn't right. I ended

74
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 1: up coming to law school because I couldn't make the

75
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: kind of impact I wanted to without a lot of

76
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: great without being able to sit in the courtroom and

77
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 1: advocate on behalf of the clients that I was working with.

78
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,680
Speaker 1: And I specifically wanted to do a civil rights competition

79
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,400
Speaker 1: because that's the type of law I want to practice

80
00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: once I graduate. Good afternoon. My name is Stubi Manicer,

81
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 1: and I also represent the defendant Travis Gordon in today's case.

82
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 1: My grandmother was a social worker for survivors of domestic violence.

83
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 1: Between her impact that she's had on me and my

84
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 1: general interest, that's brought me to the victim advocacy throughoute

85
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: UM working for a Court Room Advocates project where survivors

86
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 1: of domestic violence reach out to us and we walked

87
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: them through the process of filing for their petition for

88
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 1: an order of protection and family court. And then this

89
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: summer I was an intern in the Domestic Violence Bureau

90
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 1: at the Brooklyn DA's office, working with misdemeanors. I think

91
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 1: the way people enter the system through domestic violence is

92
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,640
Speaker 1: interesting because it's not their choice. I find having connection

93
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 1: with a victim and having their perspective is so important

94
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: in doing justice. Good morning, your honor. My name is

95
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 1: Catherine Boyko, and I, along with my co counselor, present

96
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: the defendant Travis Gorton in today's case. I was born

97
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,640
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, New York. My parents were born in Ukraine

98
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: and my mom was a lawyer back in Ukraine. My

99
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 1: mom had to leave her home country to make sure

100
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: I had a better life, so it was really important

101
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,560
Speaker 1: for me to carry on those dreams, carry on that ambition.

102
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: It's important to me personally because I see that you

103
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 1: know from personal work experience that there are so many

104
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: things that are just not right with the criminal justice

105
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: system that I don't want to be overly ambitious and

106
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: say that I'm going to be the person that fixes

107
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 1: all of it, but I definitely want to play a

108
00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 1: part in that, to do what I can to make

109
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: things better for other people, defend people who can't really

110
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 1: stand up for themselves. Good afternoon, counselors. My name is

111
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: Antony Shawn. I represent the plaintiff, Miss Raley Taylor today.

112
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,040
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've ever done this. There

113
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: are challenges. They're really just associated with, I think, overcoming

114
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: your own discomfort and your own vulnerabilities and attacking those

115
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 1: head on. For example, I think I am a very

116
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 1: non adversarial person, and obviously in a courtroom setting, it's

117
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 1: an adversarial setting, so you do have people who are

118
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 1: opposing counsel who are trying to potentially rile you up

119
00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 1: or potentially trying to make frivolous objections just to throw

120
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: you off, and so dealing with that sort of discomfort

121
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 1: has been challenging, but it's also something to confront before

122
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,000
Speaker 1: you actually get into a courtroom one day. Aeny is

123
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:48,240
Speaker 1: the plaintiff defense Atene is the defense. A and Nelly

124
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 1: have spent most of their law school years on Zoom,

125
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,960
Speaker 1: so it's only natural that they would be excited about

126
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,200
Speaker 1: being in court and in person. So right now we're

127
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: in the Brooklyn Law School court room. So basically what

128
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 1: it looks like. There is a jury box, there is

129
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 1: a witness stand, there's a place where the judge sits um,

130
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 1: and there is a giant audience. Portion of this room

131
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 1: takes that most of the room. The party with the

132
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: burden of proof sits closest to the jury, So the

133
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,839
Speaker 1: plaintiff or the prosecution sits closest to the jury. So

134
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 1: the plaintiff would sit here and then the defense would

135
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 1: sit at the table farthest from the jury box. They've

136
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 1: got to feel out the jury more. They've got the burden,

137
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,959
Speaker 1: and so I think the person with the burden really

138
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,960
Speaker 1: has to convince the jury. It's better to be in

139
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,800
Speaker 1: close proximity because the closer you are to the jury,

140
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,479
Speaker 1: the more likely they are to see that council tables reactions,

141
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,000
Speaker 1: you know they're more likely to hear what they have

142
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 1: to say. And the point of a direct examination is

143
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 1: that you want the jury to be paying attention to

144
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 1: the witness. You don't want the jury to be looking

145
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: at you. You are not the star of the show.

146
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,479
Speaker 1: Your witnesses the star of the show. Whereas on cross examination,

147
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,440
Speaker 1: so I'll be doing cross of this witness if Ellie

148
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:13,439
Speaker 1: is actually directing. So I stand here because I want

149
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,080
Speaker 1: the jury to see me and my reactions, and you,

150
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 1: as the witness, are now looking at me and not them,

151
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 1: So that actually has quite an effect on the jury

152
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,040
Speaker 1: as well, when you're diverting your eyes away from them.

153
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm the closer. So the difference between opening and closing

154
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: is that in closing you are reviewing all of the

155
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: evidence that you brought in during your case in chief,

156
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 1: so it's less scripted and more a summary of everything

157
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,800
Speaker 1: that came out during trial, a lot of which can

158
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,720
Speaker 1: be unpredictable, some of which could be good for your side,

159
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: some of which could be bad for your side. So

160
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: you have to be agile and sort of improvise some

161
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 1: of what comes out in the closing. You also have

162
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 1: to flip the other side's theme that means that you

163
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 1: want to turn the other side argument against them. So

164
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,920
Speaker 1: right now we're really ramping up for competition. It's less

165
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: than a week away, or about actually a week away.

166
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,840
Speaker 1: It's a very intimidating process to present a case. You know,

167
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 1: as law students were so unfamiliar with this and over

168
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: zoom it's a whole other challenge. My name is Jane Dowling.

169
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 1: I am the coach of the U. C. Davis Martin

170
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,559
Speaker 1: Luther King Civil Rights Competition. Confidence is really key. We're

171
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,559
Speaker 1: not really making like substantive changes at this point. It's

172
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 1: just sort of running through the material, practicing, honing in

173
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: on some details, getting pumped up. Of course, we're law students.

174
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 1: We all have strong personalities. Like you don't come to

175
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,080
Speaker 1: law school if if you don't have a strong volitions

176
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: and strong opinions. Brooklyn Law was founded in nine one

177
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 1: to serve working people, women, ethnic minority these and immigrants.

178
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,360
Speaker 1: The school is across German Street from the Justice Ruth

179
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,439
Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg Municipal Building, on a stretch of pavement now

180
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: named Black Lives Matter Boulevard. German Street runs down to

181
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: the East River, an area that once held molasses and

182
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: sugar refineries, both industries that were rooted in America's slave

183
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,480
Speaker 1: owning past. The young advocates on the Brooklyn Law Team

184
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 1: keep that history in mind as they pack up their

185
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,079
Speaker 1: laptops and coffee and they fight through traffic to school

186
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,560
Speaker 1: every day. The building faces Cabin Plaza Park, just blocks

187
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,200
Speaker 1: away from the Brooklyn Bridge. In the last few years,

188
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: Cabin Plaza has become the epicenter of many of Brooklyn's

189
00:12:47,360 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 1: most heated protests. My name is Stacy Kaplow, and I'm

190
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,560
Speaker 1: a professor of Blood Brooklyn Law School, the very progressive

191
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: and liberal student body here in New York. I'm also

192
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: the associate dean for experiential Education at the law School.

193
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,719
Speaker 1: It's what's called a standalone school. In other words, were

194
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 1: not part of a larger university. So as a school,

195
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 1: we have a lot of independence and kind of nimble

196
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 1: in terms of what we can and kind of do.

197
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 1: Because we're located in the heart of New York, we

198
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 1: have access to all sorts of resources within what is

199
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 1: clearly the largest legal community in the world. So our

200
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,320
Speaker 1: students are out there all the time working, as well

201
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 1: as obviously going to school and learning how to become lawyers.

202
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 1: The Brooklyn team has worked on arguments for both sides

203
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,000
Speaker 1: of the problem for the King competition, and they have

204
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: to picture what could possibly come at them. Whether they're

205
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,960
Speaker 1: representing the plaintiff or the defense, they have to be

206
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 1: ready for anything. An overview of this case is that

207
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 1: an executive order was put into place by the governor

208
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 1: of a made up state called the State of Columbia.

209
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: This executive order implemented what is called a shelter station,

210
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: which is supposed to take homeless individuals off of the

211
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: street and help give them a place to stay, food

212
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 1: to eat, a roof over their head. The plaintiff is

213
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 1: bringing an a commendment prol and unusual constitutional violation against

214
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 1: the defendant. Firstly, a homeless person is taken to shelter

215
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 1: station against their will. It's a detention center for which

216
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 1: they do not know how long they will be detained for.

217
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: A homeless person must complete classes in English and math,

218
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: they must several hygiene requirements, they have to engage in

219
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 1: a job while they're at the shelter station. And lastly,

220
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 1: and perhaps most burdensome, and they have to prove that

221
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: they have permanent housing before they're released. But they're unable

222
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: to save up money while they're at the shelter station.

223
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 1: The competition is the Martin Luther King Civil Rights Trial

224
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 1: Practice Competition. You See Davis School of Law has been

225
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: hosting that now for the last four years. I'm Dennis Coda.

226
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 1: I supervised the trial practice program at you see Davis

227
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:45,320
Speaker 1: King Hall. I am a magistrate judge for the Eastern

228
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: District of California. There's a new option to help get

229
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,480
Speaker 1: dozens of people off the streets of Sacramento. This is

230
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 1: the city's newest homeless shelter. Up to one people will

231
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 1: begin staying here next week. The X Straight Navigation Shelter

232
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: is near Broadway at Alhambra. It is more than just

233
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: a place to sleep, though. There's also life skills classes,

234
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 1: recovery assistance, medicare care, and financial counseling, as well as

235
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: services for help people transition from homelessness to permanent housing.

236
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: Being in a city where you're having to step over

237
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,520
Speaker 1: the people living on the sidewalk made me realize that

238
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 1: this is a societal issue with no easy solutions, and

239
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 1: I thought this would be a good topic because these people,

240
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 1: while they're clearly creating a strain on their community still

241
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 1: have rights, They're still citizens. Martin Luther King is a

242
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: towering figure in the civil rights area, and as we've

243
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 1: struggled to realize the American dream, let us realize if

244
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 1: we do not struggle alone. The law school at U C.

245
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: Davis is named after Martin Luther King. The students daily

246
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: walk past a life size ceramic figure of the late

247
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: civil rights leader in the lobby of King Hall, even

248
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 1: though that of difficult days ahead, even though before the

249
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: victory is won, somebody else will have to get scotta,

250
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 1: somebody else will have to go to jail. Maybe some

251
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: will have to stay physical death for the victors one

252
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 1: some would be just understood, called bad names, be this mist, dangerous,

253
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 1: rabbit rousers, and agitated. Even in the mist, that's the

254
00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 1: struggle must go on. In the run up to the event,

255
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Team practices against mystery teams, made up of

256
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: alumni who volunteer to help the two Whales get ready

257
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 1: to compete. The only job you ever had was babysitting. Correct? Yes?

258
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, what the hell is I'm not the witness.

259
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm sorry, I'm the I'm the attorney. Okay,

260
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry so sorry to be

261
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 1: back up. You take it away. I will be the attorney.

262
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,959
Speaker 1: They go at it night and day. That is all

263
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: for defense, Okay, Okay, plaintiff, do you have any additional

264
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 1: house giving matters to address? Yeah, your honor. We just

265
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: asked that everything that applied to defense also applies to plaintiff,

266
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 1: of course, and also as a as an aside, your honor,

267
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,919
Speaker 1: do too my own version of cruel and unusual punishment

268
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 1: from back to back horses. I may be eating throughout

269
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 1: because I haven't had any food since I don't know

270
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 1: how long, So if you've seen me eating, I'm sorry,

271
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,639
Speaker 1: No problem at all. Thanks for the heads up. Okay,

272
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,360
Speaker 1: any other housekeeping matters from Lindon the practice judges talk

273
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: strategy to bring the four Nubies up to speed, just

274
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: keep your answers to yes or noltees. The witness if

275
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: chances the question can answer, however, she deals counsel. If

276
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: you're not getting the answers you want, you might want

277
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 1: to narrow your questions a little bit. Hey, sorry, Anna,

278
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 1: don't apologize to me. Okays. Off, It all comes down

279
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 1: to for students and a coach or two in a

280
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 1: room working hard. That's Adam schlahead coach at Fordham University

281
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 1: and one of our commentators, thinking about the case and

282
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: arguing and figuring it out and practicing and running it again.

283
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 1: That's the same at every single law school. It's what

284
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: happens in that little room. The learning happens in that

285
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 1: little room. Resources don't give anybody an advantage in that

286
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: little room. You need people who really care about this

287
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: and care about the students learning, and students who are motivated.

288
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 1: You know, you can get that anywhere, and you need

289
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: to really tie yourself very very closely to the law.

290
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 1: Laura Basilon is a former federal public defender who now

291
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: teaches at the University of San Francisco School of Law

292
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: and runs its highly acclaimed racial Justice Clinic. It's not

293
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: enough to just have bravado and style if there's nothing

294
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: else behind it. You have to absolutely understand what the

295
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: governing law is and if you're the prosecutor, be prepared

296
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: to prove every element, and if you're the defense counsel,

297
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: figure out which elements you don't need to contest and

298
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: which ones you do. So, Laura, when you're working with

299
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: your students, is there something that you do to be

300
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: able to say to them. Look, on one end, you

301
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: can't have an over zealous prosecution, but also on the

302
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: other end, you can't have criminal defense attorneys that have

303
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: blinders on. How do you work with your students to

304
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: let them know that this is a possibility when they

305
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: go out into the real world. I think it is

306
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: really important to be honest about the fact that we

307
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: have a lot of failings in this system, and they're

308
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: on both sides. So you're right. There are plenty of

309
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: over zealous prosecutors. There are prosecutors who suffer from tunnel vision.

310
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: There are prosecutors who commit misconduct, most of them not intentionally,

311
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 1: but because they haven't been trained properly or they get

312
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: caught up in the moment. At the same time, there

313
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: are plenty of defense attorneys who are not doing their jobs.

314
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 1: They may be poorly trained, they may be overwhelmed, or

315
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: they may quite frankly, just be lazy. And we have

316
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: had many, many cases where the level of advocacy at

317
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: the trial court on behalf of our post conviction clients

318
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: has been absolutely abysmal. We're in good shape, but the

319
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: more I learn about their situation, the more just devastating.

320
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: It is. I'm also blown away by how kind and

321
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: optimistic she is the more I learned. I mean, the

322
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: system fails her over and over and over again, and

323
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: she just continues to be the most wonderful person. Yeah,

324
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: and she'll also text us and say like, how are

325
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: you feeling today? Like, thank you so much for everything

326
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: you're doing. She's just she's so grateful, so sweet. In

327
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: addition to trial team Ellie and third year law student Regina,

328
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: you are working together on a real world case for

329
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: the Brooklyn Defender Service. Any law school these days would

330
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: have to have some clinical offerings, but we've been doing

331
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: this for fifty years now. Stacy Caplow is the supervisor

332
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: for the clinic. Most students here fro the law school,

333
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: by the time they're finished, have three, four, maybe even

334
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: five semesters of experiences in either in our clinics, which

335
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: are in house or off campus in offices all over

336
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: the city. So that's the annoying forum that the Pardon

337
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: office requires. So how far along are we on the forum?

338
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: Actually almost done? Um, most of it's filled out. So

339
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: our client is a woman and a mother and a

340
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: daughter and has been in this country from at least

341
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: half of her life and all of her adult life.

342
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: She first came here as a young teenager and had

343
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: lawful status in the US, but as a result of

344
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: a single mistake she made that violated federal law, she

345
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: was prosecuted, convicted, served a sentence, and then was put

346
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: into deportation proceedings. So one form of relief that we

347
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: can try to obtain for them is to get a

348
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: pardon from the President, and that pardon has the possibility

349
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: of acting as, in effect, a defense to their deportation.

350
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: Not a lot of people get pardons. You still want

351
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: to do this, yeah, all right, good with all the

352
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: aggravating details. That's what makes me want to do it more.

353
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: I do by far and the most meaningful yes, yeah, okay,

354
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 1: good good. I know Ellie from working with her this

355
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: semester in the clinic, and she is dogged, but also

356
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: has extremely warm and pleasant way of expressing herself. And

357
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: I think she's a good example, as is a Jany.

358
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: If there's a way that you put yourself out there

359
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: and you present yourself, be true to yourself, they really

360
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: don't need to yell and scream um. They can just

361
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: be calm, collected and forceful without having to pound the table.

362
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: So on Friday, around one o'clock, we had a little

363
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: team get together over Zoo like we would in like

364
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: a locker room sort of. This is a jenny pump

365
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: each other up, let each other know that we're not

366
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: going to be more ready than we are today, Like

367
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: we were about to go into a game, and it

368
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: was like leave it on the scoreboard, and then in

369
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: the hour right before we actually entered the competition room.

370
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: I have some like personal rituals that I do which

371
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: include listening and dancing to a very embarrassing Aretha Franklin

372
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: respect by myself in my room alone. It's I actually

373
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: have not even like admitted that to a lot of people,

374
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: So it's a very sacred ritual to me. Well, you

375
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: just admitted it, probably to a lot of people. But

376
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: that's okay, it's out. It's out now exactly very well, plaintiff,

377
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: are you ready to proceed with openings? Yes, your honor,

378
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: we're ready to proceed very well. You may proceed. A veteran,

379
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: a patriot, a United States citizen stripped of the rights

380
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: she risked her life to protect, may please the court.

381
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: Opposing counsel members of the jury. My name is A

382
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: Jenny Shaw, and I, along with my co council, Miss

383
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Eli Sands, represent the plaintiff, Ms Riley Taylor. In today's case,

384
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: A Jenny opens as Brooklyn Law takes on the University

385
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: of Connecticut in round one. It's her team's first appearance

386
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: ever at a competition, and after she was honorably discharged,

387
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 1: she again answered the call to keep our country safe

388
00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: as a mechanic on military aircrafts. Unfortunately, you will learn

389
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: that Miss Taylor was let go from her job, and

390
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: just after she was let go, you will hear that

391
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: her welfare check started getting smaller and smaller. So Miss

392
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: Taylor became just another data point in the city of

393
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: Oakland's growing homeless population. The Brooklyn team argues that the

394
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: plaintiff has value and humanity. They deny that the homeless

395
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: were rounded up in order to help them. Instead, Brooklyn

396
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: insists the homeless were arrested for being poor. Now, Chick

397
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: Gordon business was better in downtown Oakland, sure, yeah, but

398
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: the homeless population still existed. Yes, we were not able

399
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: to eradicate it completely. He referred to homeless individuals as

400
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: skid row rejects. I may have them. You referred to

401
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: homeless individuals as derelics. Yes, you referred to homeless individuals

402
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: as Mr ratsto oh in connection with the public defecation,

403
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: yes and vermin Yes. Jumping ahead to your critical Chief Barden,

404
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: you enforced executive order one of your team. Right after

405
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: the round, the team gathers online to wait for feedback,

406
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: and they hear that they beat Yukon, but the judges

407
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: say they need to work on a few things. Remove

408
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: all references to I believe. I think the court doesn't

409
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: care about your feelings. It doesn't care about your beliefs.

410
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: The court cares about the law. It cares about the facts,

411
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: and it cares about what's happening on the record. It's

412
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: not that you believe it's this, It's that this is

413
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: the law. There are times when I think you all

414
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: could have done a better job listening to your witness,

415
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,239
Speaker 1: especially on direct out. They often felt like maybe an

416
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: objection came up, or your witness didn't give you the

417
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: exact answer, and then you've had a hard time pivoting

418
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: from there. Well, thanks everybody, that was a great round.

419
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: I thought the plaintiff your crosses were good, very very good.

420
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: In fact, Ellie, your cross was was very good. Brooklyn

421
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Law is listening. They beat Texas A and M in

422
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: round two. Then their power matched too, you see San Diego. Yes,

423
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: I also asked promotions to strike of all answers that

424
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: referenced camps from the records that I'm not gonna do.

425
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: You let the cat out of the out of the

426
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: bag a little too too early, So we're just gonna

427
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: go ahead and perceive what we have that Mr Alfred's

428
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: where are you going after you testified with this, I'm

429
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: going back to the shelter station. How long have you

430
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: been in the shop station since January? You see? San

431
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: Diego wins round three, But the judges have some surprises

432
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 1: in store for the Brooklyn team. We were all at

433
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 1: on Jane's house and we were starving. None of us

434
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: had eaten yet because it was like a thirteen hour day.

435
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: We had gone straight through. We had ordered pizza and

436
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: like you were just stuffing our faces because you're so

437
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: hungry at that point. So we were sitting on the

438
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: couch and on the screen they were about to give

439
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: off awards and I was just like, oh, you know

440
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: opening statement awards. You know, Engineer Phoebe should get that.

441
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: And then the first thing that comes on is on

442
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: Jane's name. What just happened? We got them that opening statement.

443
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: We just all tackled her to the ground and we're

444
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: crying and screaming and so happy. And to get recognized

445
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: for something that I had no idea how to do

446
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: three four months ago out of a field of forty

447
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: four other people who gave opening statement, is from Ivy

448
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: League schools all across the country, so many talented advocates.

449
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: Was extremely validating that I have picked the right thing

450
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: and I can do this and this is for me,

451
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: even though some days it may not feel like it.

452
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: And then they announced the semifinalists and they named the

453
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: schools one by one. One school went by, and another

454
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: school went by, then the third school went by, and

455
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: we were the fourth school and our name pops up

456
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: on the screen and it was an eruption of screams

457
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: and joy and like shrieking and my my next I

458
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: feel so sorry for my poor next door neighbors who

459
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: have young kids, because it must have been like Eastern

460
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: time when this was happening. We were like, oh my god.

461
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: We were screaming, we were chumping, we were screen too.

462
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: We were like laughing, we were crying, we were hugging.

463
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: It was like it was such a it was a mess,

464
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: but it was so exciting and I'm so glad we

465
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: got to share that moment together. And then we were like,

466
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: we gotta go home, like we have to prepare it

467
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: for tomorrow morning. And the way it worked was that

468
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: there was a coin toss to see which side of

469
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: our team would be competing in the semifinal, and our

470
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: school on the coin toss, so our coaches chose to

471
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: have Aujany and I go. Then we ended up putting

472
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: on a case in the morning. Harvard was the reigning

473
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: champion of this competition. They had one last year going

474
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: against Harvard. I think, sure, the name is intimidating. And

475
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: when I told my parents, I mean, they were just ecstatic.

476
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: They know how much time has gone into this and

477
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: how much sacrifice I've had to make. Because they're right

478
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: over the bridge in New Jersey. We just knew she

479
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: was preparing. She was up against the big teams that

480
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: have proved themselves in the past, and it was going

481
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: to be a formidable competition. Doctors Lena and Proteston Shaw

482
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: are Angine's parents and when she told us about how

483
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: well their team did unexpectedly and how she did um

484
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: personally on a personal level, how how she excelled, we

485
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: were just so happy and proud of it. Well, to me,

486
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: it was not unexpectedly. To me, it was I knew, no,

487
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 1: I meant for the team. For the team, like for

488
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: the school in Brooklyn Law School had never had never

489
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: been placed that high in this sort of a competition

490
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: first time during this competition for Brooklyn. If you're passionate

491
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: about something, you can only be successful. Can I make

492
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: you a cup of tea or something? Just want to

493
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:12,479
Speaker 1: drink some China? Absolutely, it'll be spicy. How about you, Laura,

494
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: I don't know about spicy. It's like it's flavorful. It's yeah,

495
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: we'll try a little bit. Yeah, okay, let me make them.

496
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: This is lose Lift tea. So I got three cups

497
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: of water in there. I have two tea bags. Put

498
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: three spoonfuls of loose lift tea. Then I have this

499
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: is chai masala. Masala is cardamom black pepper clubs. So

500
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: that's the spice. So Angie is the middle child. You know,

501
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: from the day she was born, she already had that

502
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: sense of fairness and justice even when she was much younger,

503
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: Like you know, she would take an issue, however small,

504
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: and just come up with an argument and say why

505
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 1: this is not right. So I'm basically the first lawyer

506
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: in the family. Kind of something that I had to

507
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: chart by myself. I think I told them after the fact.

508
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, yeah, I'm on the court team.

509
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: They were like, we have no idea what that is.

510
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: I do think that the color of my skin makes

511
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: it such that I need to be more prepared than

512
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: whoever my adversary is at every turn. I mean, it's

513
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 1: certainly something I've just had to live with my whole life,

514
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: and at this point it's become a hustle. It's become

515
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: a hard work in a way of life, because I

516
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: know that the only reason my parents got to where

517
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: they were, and subsequently how they've been able to support

518
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: me to get to where I am is because of

519
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: all of that hard work and being more prepared the

520
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: person standing next to them. That's really all it comes

521
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: down to, you, Okay, I'm the oldest of four siblings.

522
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: I lost my dad at a very young age. My

523
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: mother raised us all four by herself. You know, she

524
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: managed to make sure we were all not only just

525
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: provided for, but also went on to be well educated

526
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: in professionals because I went to medical school at a

527
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: very young age. Um like, I was not even eighteen

528
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: when I started medical school. This was in India. So

529
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: I went from a small town to a big city

530
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: to learn medicine. And that's where I met him. And

531
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: he was, you know, a quote unquote foreigner because he

532
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: came from Kenya. I was born in Nairobi, Kenya, and

533
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: my father was born in Nairobi, Kenya. Kenya was a

534
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: British colony. East Africa was a British colony. My father

535
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: was a very a person of modest means. We lived

536
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: the one bedroom apartment, five of us. I'm the middle

537
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: of three siblings, so my father said, okay, you know

538
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: who's going to become the doctor here, you know, so

539
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: it was left up to me. And being a person

540
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: of modest means, education is very expensive abroad, England, America,

541
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: things like that, and so I opted to go to

542
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: India where the education was cheap. Four and a half

543
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: years in medical school and then I decided to come

544
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: here to the United States. It took me two years

545
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: to find a residency, and it was somebody gives you

546
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: an opportunity. Oh dad, I think the water. He hasn't

547
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: thought of the whole journey in a long time, so

548
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: all like with this much detail, it's all coming back

549
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: to him. So thank you, Kevin. He probably needs no.

550
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: I ended up getting an opportunity from from a residency

551
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: training director. My own director who gave me the externship

552
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: called me up and said, come and do a residency

553
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: with me. I don't need to interview you. I know

554
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: who you are. You're still in touch with him. He's

555
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: your mentor. He was an immigrant himself. Okay, Then I

556
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: flavor it with cardamom, ground up cardamom. Okay. Then I'm

557
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: gonna get some mint, and I'm going to get some ginger,

558
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: fresh mint, fresh ginger. This is the ratio I use.

559
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: Everybody doesn't use the same ratio. So I'll take my

560
00:38:51,560 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: ginger and I'll greet some ginger in it right always

561
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: you get smell, right, And then I'll take some fresh mint,

562
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: the fresh mint in there, and then I will come

563
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: to a boil, because you've got to let it boil.

564
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: And then you'll lead the mill starting with the plaint

565
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: if you have any other housekeeping matters to cover that

566
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: I have not covered right from the start. The judge

567
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: is tough on Ellie. Yes, your honor, the plaintiff has

568
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: a few housekeeping matters to attend to. Firstly, would your

569
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: honor like a courtesy copy of the plaintiff's notice of appearance? No,

570
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't need one. Would your Honor like a brief

571
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: recitation of the facts for today's case, not as a

572
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: housekeeping matter. Now, your honor, for judicial notice. We have

573
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: discussed our emotions in Lemonade with opposing counsel during pre trial,

574
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: and I've stipulated to exclusion of three pieces of evidence.

575
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: Those are Lemonade matters. I am asking only for housekeeping

576
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: ma or stipulations will cover, Yes, you're owner. Additionally, your

577
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: honor permission to have local roles constructively read into the record.

578
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: Local rules do not need to be read into the record.

579
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: He was a tough clicking for sure, But Ellie, you know,

580
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: she stood her ground. She like recuperated, and she you know,

581
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: she was not phazed, and I'm really proud of her

582
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: for that. And so I was literally sitting on the

583
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: edge of my seat, my whole family was actually watching

584
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: two as spectators, and they were on the edge of

585
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: their seats too. But just because those competitors go to

586
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: Harvard Law School doesn't necessarily make them better advocates than

587
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: us because we go to Brooklyn Law School. You've all

588
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: had the material for the same amount of time, you've

589
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: all been training for the same amount of time, and

590
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: you all have the same resources to a certain extent,

591
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: going against four males. But it's interesting that was the

592
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: first thing Aye and I said to each other, is

593
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: that we're going against all male team and we have

594
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: a male judge. The case is on Ellast questions Phoebe,

595
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: who was acting as a witness, how long have you

596
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: been at shelter Station three and Salford over a year

597
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: and a half. Do you know how much longer you'll

598
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: be there? For? I have no idea, No one has

599
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: actually told me. All I know is that I can't leave.

600
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: Why not all their requirements Before I can leave, detainees

601
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: must work. I have to take classes and hygiene, math

602
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: and English, and I need to pass the test that

603
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: they give us at the end of my every month,

604
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: and the test is really hard. Why is the test her?

605
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 1: All their whole bunch of word problems on the math test,

606
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: and I don't have enough time to complete the questions.

607
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: They also can't use a calculator. Would you recognize that

608
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,959
Speaker 1: test if you saw it here today? Yes, your honor

609
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: directing witness Court and counts's attention to what has been

610
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: pre marked as child exhibit to premiss to share via

611
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: the screen share function constructively outside the presence of the jury,

612
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: You may proceed. Please let the record collect drown. I

613
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: have an objection to this exhibit on you're premature for

614
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: your hairsay objection precede council on Jenny pushes back against

615
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: the Harvard defense. So let's start by talking about the

616
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: shelter station program. Can you describe it for the jury?

617
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: The shelter station program was a rehabilitated program putent place

618
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: because the state of Columbia was in a state of

619
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: crisis on two grounds, one being speculation and to being

620
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: lack of expertise. And I can explain further your owner,

621
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: if you wish, I have not yet had the witness

622
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: tendered as an expert. So it's a little proper objection

623
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: would be foundation. And if you are disputing the qualifications

624
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: of the expert. You're free to or dire if that's

625
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: your request, Your honor, may I planned if you wish

626
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: to order, are the expert? Yes, rounder may enquire you may.

627
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: Dr Cole. You've based your conclusions today on the established

628
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: principles in our field of urban social symmetry. That's correct.

629
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: Urban social symmetry is a relatively new field. Yes, it's

630
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: an exciting new field. And you testified that urban social

631
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: symmetry is about how demographic groups interact with each other. Correct, exactly,

632
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: and the effects it has on urban life and communities exactly.

633
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 1: Just a yes or now I will suffice, Dr coll

634
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: Thank you. Dr Cole. You consider homelessness to be one

635
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: part of that broad specialty. That's correct. You're aware that

636
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: the issue in today's case is homelessness. That's correct. We're

637
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: not here to discuss urban social symmetry. No, note that

638
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: the fields the home. That's correct. In fact, today is

639
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: the first time you're testifying about homelessness. Yes, that's correct.

640
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: No of the questions, your honor, he does not meet

641
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: the first requirement a Federal of evidence seven O two

642
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: and should not be tendered as an expert today. As

643
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: on Jenny Cross, examines a key witness. She's honing in

644
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: on Harvard's main line of argument. She denies that shelter

645
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: stations are a way to help homeless people. Instead, on

646
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: Jenny insists the city and state are more interested in

647
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: scoring points with voters for cleaning up the streets. They

648
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: don't really care about helping the homeless. You may proceed,

649
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: cross samination, Yes, Dr Cole, can you hear me all right?

650
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: Yes I have? Dr Cole. Have you testified as an

651
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: expert before? Yes? I have. And you get paid by

652
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: your client each time you testify today, the client paying

653
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: your fees the defendant, right, that's correct. I think I

654
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: saw what they were trying to do, and that actually

655
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: lit a little bit of a fire in me to say,

656
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: this expert is trying to sound really good and pull

657
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: the wool over the jury's eyes and pull the wool

658
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: over my eyes, frankly, and it's not gonna work. And

659
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: you're aware of that Executive Order one one three created

660
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: by Governor Ferris is that issue in this case? Yes,

661
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: I'm aware of that, Dr Cole. You've published research about

662
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: urban social symmetry, that's correct, and much of that research

663
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: is specifically focused on homelessness. Right. Yes. For example, you

664
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: published a piece titled a Societal Sickness, the cancer called homelessness. Yes,

665
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: that's correct. You also published a piece titled a Society

666
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: out of Balance, Homelessness and the Decay of the American Community. Yes, exactly.

667
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: So you've referred to homeless individuals as a cancer. I

668
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: referred to homelessness as a cancer, not homeless individuals. It's

669
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: it's a fine distinction. It's a kind of upon the

670
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: people who inflicts. So you referred to homelessness as a cancer,

671
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: that's corect And you've referred to homelessness as causing the

672
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: decay of America. Yes, it's closing today. That's correct. This

673
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: expert is an expert in urban social symmetry, which is

674
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: just absolutely the most absurd specialty I've ever heard of.

675
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: Sorry to anyone out there who is actually an expert

676
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: in urban social symmetry, I'd like to meet one some day. Yeah.

677
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: I felt that that was the most effective way to

678
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: make this expert really look silly. So those traps were

679
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: very purposefully laid. Everything now depends on the closing. It's

680
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Ellie against Harvard. She argues that the defendant and affect

681
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: sentenced a veteran too indefinite detention at a shelter station,

682
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: and she denounces the defendant's refusal to take the stand.

683
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: Members of the jury. The defendant didn't even bother to

684
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: show up in court today. The defendant himself has no defense.

685
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: There were countless other ways the defendant could have helped

686
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: the homeless population he chose not to. In its closing argument,

687
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: Harvard flips that fame, claiming the shelter stations are meant

688
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: to help. This is a part of the process that

689
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: activist lawyers relish. Ellie goes straight at the defense in

690
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: her rebuttal ms Taylor and all homeless people in the

691
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: state of Columbia are subject to future indefinite detainment because

692
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: of the fact that they are homeless. The defendant is

693
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: not interested in eradicating homelessness. The defendant is interested in

694
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: eradicating homeless people. The defendant has used belligerent language to

695
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: describe Miss Taylor and other homeless people before. Words like

696
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: vermin and derrelics are simply part of his vocabulary. The

697
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: fact that government officials like Chief Boarden use words like

698
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: this to describe members of the public show he's not

699
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: qualified to be a public servant. Now this executive order

700
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: wants all homeless people together under the definition of vacancy.

701
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: That's not alex and thank you. You guys would like

702
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: to give feedback if you want, and then being little

703
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: common announced which team moved on. This is by far

704
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: one of the best about trials I've witnessed. I've tried

705
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: to take notes. Um, I couldn't see much room for improving.

706
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: I want to take note of when you guys actually

707
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: become lawyers so that i can set my retirement for

708
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: that time, because I'm not going to be able to

709
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: compete next. I was honored to be here today. These

710
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: are two extraordinary teams for extraordinary future lawyers. I'd be

711
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: happy to work with you. Um. My job is on

712
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: the general counsel for three D and forty billion dollar

713
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: financial institutions. I hire lawyers all the time. I've retained

714
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: lawyers all the time. All four of you would be

715
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: in my pool. I'd hire you anytime. You've chosen the

716
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: right profession. You're extraordinary. Judged a number of these my

717
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: trials over the years, and I think this is the

718
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: best that I've see. I have to say, you're all terrific.

719
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: My only suggestion would be that the closing argument probably

720
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 1: ought to be easier to remember than a long argument.

721
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: I will I will echo those comments that you know,

722
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: when when you get out in practice, you're going to

723
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: find that the hardest part about jury trials or any

724
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: kind of court appearance is standing up in front of

725
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: twelve people who couldn't escape jury duty, or three judges

726
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: that you think know the law so much better than

727
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: you when they really don't, and not stammering and losing

728
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: your place, and then sitting down and realize that you

729
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: didn't sip up your fly after the last trip to

730
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: the restroom. I guarantee you those mistakes will happen to you,

731
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: But I would encourage you to focus your opening statements

732
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: simply on your narrative of the facts. How can you

733
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: explain the facts of your case in a persuasive way

734
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: in three minutes, in a way that would persuade your

735
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: Trump supporting drunk uncle at Thanksgiving to believe your case.

736
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: The judges issue their ruling. Piet Civilian congratulations to all

737
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: teams that made to the semifinals. It was I mean,

738
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: it's been wonderful having you all. This is a very

739
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: very close round. UM, but the team that is advancing

740
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: to the final round is Team f Congrats also team

741
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: and a wonderful job, really really congratulations you all. Everyone's

742
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: been doing wonderful and good luck Team FUM in the

743
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: next round. I do questions. I'm going to jump back

744
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: to the main room, so ask me questions there, but

745
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: otherwise everyone else is free to go. Thank you all.

746
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: Congrats through Harvard advances. Brooklyn is out. You know, they

747
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: through a huge curveball at us. They didn't call the

748
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: defendant and they were representing the defendant in their case.

749
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: And we've run so many hypothetical so we've practiced against

750
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: so many different people, We've combated so many different personalities,

751
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: thinking that we had prepared for every possible scenario. In

752
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: no possible scenario did we ever think the defense would

753
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: not call the defendant. I ended up having to give

754
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: a cross examination that I had never done before because

755
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: I normally crossed the defendant. And I had to rewrite

756
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: my entire closing statement during the trial because my entire

757
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: closing statement was attacking the character of the defendant. So

758
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: there was a lot of agility and adjusting necessary in

759
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: that round. I felt that it was so close. Like, honestly,

760
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: when we were getting the judges feedback, I go through

761
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: the it's like it's been what like a month now.

762
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: I go through this almost like daily in my head

763
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: on my why did we lose? So? I think that

764
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,439
Speaker 1: I felt we won UM just because of how hard

765
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: we worked and how good our trial was, despite the

766
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 1: craziness of what happened behind the scenes. I felt that

767
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: we watched away as winners UM despite not advancing to

768
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: the final round. Their advocacy was better than our advocacy

769
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 1: in that round, and that's why they won. Harvard didn't

770
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: call the defendant that was well within their choice. We

771
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,879
Speaker 1: as a team fell short in preparing for that possibility.

772
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: I learned a lot from that competition. I learned more

773
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,959
Speaker 1: than anything, to expect to be thrown off your game.

774
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: It's a matter of anticipating that there is going to

775
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: be something in the course of the trial that you

776
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: are not going to expect, and you need to go

777
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: in being prepared to go outside of your comfort zone,

778
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: going in being prepared to do something differently than what

779
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: you anticipated. It's a little bit of a metaphor for life. Sure,

780
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: it'd be nice to be at Harvard, but the Brooklyn

781
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: team has learned a valuable lesson. Soon they'll be walking

782
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 1: out the door to take the bar exam, and instead

783
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: of practicing for mock trial, they'll be practicing law and

784
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: on behalf of their real world clients. They'll never let

785
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: someone do that to them again. I think for myself,

786
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: for Anjany, for the rest of our team, and for coaches,

787
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: this isn't a game for us. This is what we

788
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: want to do with our lives, and we're very much

789
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: invested in social change. We're very much invested in the

790
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: issues that this case raised, homelessness, police discretion, poverty, criminal justice,

791
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: constitutional rights, and so for us, this was really an

792
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 1: introduction to our careers, and so it really wasn't about

793
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: winning or losing. It was about representing our client and

794
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: our values and our morals in the best way that

795
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: we could. I think the biggest update that we have

796
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: is that your pardon is officially filed. Crystal. It's a

797
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: five hundred page application that we sent over to the

798
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: federal part in office and now we just wait. Now

799
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: we just wait for a response. Okay, Crystal, how does

800
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: it make you feel to know that you have this

801
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,479
Speaker 1: exceptional group of people that are just good people as

802
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: human beings, but are exceptional advocates that are working for

803
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: you to help you and your family be able to

804
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: stay in the United States. Afuly, very wonderful, feel very blessed,

805
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: and I thank all of them for their help to

806
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: tell the time. You know, take my case. I understand

807
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: that your family has faced great tragedy and that there

808
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: is this possibility that if you were to return to

809
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 1: Jamaica that you yourself would be at serious physical risk

810
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: of harm and maybe even death. I can't imagine how

811
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: difficult is for you to have to kind of process

812
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: all of this information. How do you manage this just

813
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: on an emotional level, on a personal level when you

814
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: think about on a day by day basis, like what

815
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: your future maybe let it's not it's hard. It's hard

816
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: for me and my kids because I'm sorry. It's like

817
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: is getting close up to court days and my kids

818
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: cry all the time. You know. Now everybody starts sleeping

819
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: in the room with me, said they're trying to spend

820
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: time with me before and then my family comes over

821
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: Myney's and never said they coming back over for spring breaks.

822
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: It's like it's really sad and Ellie, if you had

823
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:47,240
Speaker 1: that unfettered, completely free conversation, maybe with the immigration judge,

824
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: or maybe if it was just Joe Biden just sitting

825
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: there across from you, what would you say, Ellie. I'd

826
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: probably read them a couple of paragraphs from the part

827
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: of application. I would just look at the pardon official

828
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: in the eye and asked them, you know, what would

829
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: you do if you couldn't feed your child? And how

830
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: would you want to be treated? Okay, this is an

831
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: introductory paragraph to the entire pardon. In this application, we

832
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: will share Miss Morris's story with you. It is a

833
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: story of resilience. Crystal Morris is a woman who refused

834
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: to let herself be defined by the cruelty and hardships

835
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: inflicted upon her, but instead took the fragmented pieces left

836
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: behind by her abusers and the murderers who took the

837
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: lives of her brothers, and turned these misfortunes into a beautiful,

838
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: complex and full life. Ms Morris has, against all odds,

839
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: created a stable home for herself, her six children, and

840
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: her mother. In this application, we will bring you into

841
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: her life, through the past into the present, and provide

842
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: a window into her future. However, we implore you to

843
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: recognize that Ms. Morris is so much more than we

844
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: could ever explain through words on a page. Crystal Morris

845
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: is joy and grace embodied. We hope to provide you

846
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: with the opportunity to become as moved and inspired by

847
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: Miss Morris's incredible display of strength and perseverance as we

848
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: have been. Crystal. I'm sure that there are miracles, but

849
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: it sounds like you've got angels on Earth oat of

850
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: looking out for you right now in the form of Aliya,

851
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: Michelle and Dan and everybody. So I wish you the

852
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: very best of luck, Crystal. But if I had anybody

853
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: like these fighting people fighting for me, I feel like

854
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: I got a little bit of luck and I got

855
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: a whole lot of some of God's grace helping me

856
00:58:51,760 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: out right now. Thank you. As for the rest of

857
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: the season for Brooklyn law the team won the Fordham

858
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: University Kelly Competition, beating u C l A. Ellie competed

859
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: in the regional national Championship for the Texas Young Lawyers Association,

860
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: advancing to the quarterfinals. She was then voted on to

861
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: the national team for next season. On Janie competed in

862
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: the Queen's County District Attorney's Competition, advancing to the quarterfinals.

863
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: She was selected to serve as president of the Moot

864
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: Court Honor Society. But I received the phone call saying, hey,

865
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: the judges are saying that you guys are cheating because

866
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: you have one advocate playing all the roles. Before you

867
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: all remove yourselves from the room, can we have the

868
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: team for the plaint We need to verify who which

869
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: one of you all be which portions of the trials.

870
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: So the only thing that's similar to them is that

871
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: they're both latin Us, they're both brown skin. Other than that,

872
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: it's two completely different people and you can't make them up.

873
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: That's next time on class Action. Class Action is a

874
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument, created, produced, written,

875
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. This episode

876
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: was written by Wendy Nardi. Executive producers are Taylor Chacogne

877
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 1: and Katrina Nordbell. Sound design, editing and mixing by Evan

878
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: Tire and Taylor Chacogne. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

879
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

880
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows.