1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Two of the best known individuals in the United States 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: over the last forty years have been Bill and Hillary Clinton. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Bill served as President of the United States for eight years. 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton served as First Lady for eight years, but 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: also as a United States Senator and Secretary of State. 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: I had a rare chance to interview both of them 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: together at the ninety second Street Why and I think 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: their insights are quite interesting for current affairs, not only 9 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: about what they've done before, but what they're working on now. So, 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: President Clinton, let's talk about some current affairs for a moment. 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: What do you think is the likely outcome of Ukraine? 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: Do you see any resolution of that in the near term? 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: And obviously, Secretary Clinton, what your views are as well. 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: I don't expect it to be resolved in the near 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: term unless Putin had some sort of change of heart, 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: or unless the United States and others walk away from 17 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: Ukraine and they can't get enough arms nomination to continue. 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: I mean, they've been amazing, you know, they fought and 19 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: fought and fought. They haven't asked any Americans to come 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 2: and fight with them. But I think we I think 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: they have a chance to win. I think they will 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: win if we stay with them. 23 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: What do you think is there any way out of 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: this that a face saving way out of this that 25 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: you can think of, or what is your view on 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: how this might be resolved? 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 3: Well, David, first, I think it's imperative that we continue, 28 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: and I would even argue increase our support for Ukraine because, 29 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: as Bill just said, the Russians are back to indiscriminate 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 3: bombing in cities, aiming at apartment buildings, hospitals, other civilian sites. 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: They have committed war crimes, they are in the midst 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: of committing genocide, particularly with respect of how they're kidnapping 33 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: children and forcing Ukrainians into Russia. So the bottom line 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: for me is the only potential possible end to the 35 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 3: hostilities is either a victory by Ukraine, including them being 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: able to take back the property the territory seized in 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, or pushing Russia out of what they have 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 3: seized since February of last year, and so that could 39 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 3: give give us a breathing space to perhaps have some 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 3: kind of opportunity to protect Ukraine's legitimate borders with the 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: exception of what they didn't get back from twenty fourteen, 42 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: and to move them forward in reconstruction and rebuilding in 43 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: the face of such devastation. 44 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: Are you surprised that the US China relationship now is 45 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: as bad as it's been since Tieneman Square, it seems, 46 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: And what do you think could be done about that 47 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: to improve it? 48 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 4: I think it's difficult, and. 49 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 2: I think it'll get harder if we walk away from Ukraine, 50 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: because I think it will increase the willingness of Russia 51 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: of China to attack Taiwan. It's a real dilemma for 52 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: me because I worked hard with China and I tried 53 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 2: to build a relationship, and we desperately need a cooperative 54 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: relationship with them to deal with things like COVID, climate change, 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: North Korea. There's a whole lot of things that we 56 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: ought to be doing together, but they make it virtually impossible. 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: Because again, if you decide to stay for life, whether 58 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: your name is putin she or Smith, your number one 59 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: priority has got to be crushing all the scent, eliminating 60 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: any source of alternative power in your country, and then 61 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: keeping people lathered up by being angry. 62 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: At somebody somewhere else. 63 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: And so I believe the best thing to do is 64 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: to keep talking to them, even while we have to 65 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: disagree with them publicly. 66 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: Secretary Clinton, are you worried about a possible invasion by 67 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: China Taiwan? 68 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: When she saw that Putin's invasion number one didn't work 69 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: as fast and smoothly as Putin apparently thought it would, 70 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: and that the world literally united, with a few exceptions 71 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 3: to impose sanctions that are taking a toll on the 72 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: Russian economy, not as fast as I would like, because 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: I think that could change the power dynamic inside. But 74 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 3: she saw that, and I think before the Russian invasion 75 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 3: there was a good chance he would have moved on 76 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: Taiwan within two to three years. 77 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 5: I think that timetable has been pushed back. 78 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: So since you've left Washington, there's been an increase in 79 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: what i'll call the divisiveness in Washington. I'm sure you've noticed. 80 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: And what do you think accounts for this? It's much 81 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: worse than it was even when you were there, and 82 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: it wasn't great then, but now the Democrats Republicans don't 83 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: even want to talk to each other, let alone think 84 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: about bipartisan legislation. What do you think causes this and 85 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: you see any solution in the near term. 86 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 4: Well, if I say it. 87 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: You'll say I'm being a partisan Democrat, but I'm going 88 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: to say it anyway. It's because the Republicans have been 89 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: rewarded for being divisive, and it's it, and it's it's 90 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: great for them because they're great branders, they're really good 91 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: at they're better at than we are, and they convince 92 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 2: people that are most left wing members about ten percent 93 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: of our caucus represent one hundred percent of us, and 94 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 2: cause people that get scared in the middle who are 95 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: swing voters, to forget that their most right wing members 96 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 2: represent over ninety percent of them in the House and 97 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: about sixty percent in the Senate. I have a lot 98 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: of Republican friends still who just pretend it's not going on, 99 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: or who don't like it and don't support it. But 100 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: you can't blame people in politics who covert power for 101 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: doing what works, and it's been working for them. 102 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: So, President Clinton today, if you were to say we 103 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: should change the way the presidents are elected, obviously you 104 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: were elected twice, you probably are reasonably happy with the method. 105 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: But do you think direct election of the president popular 106 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: vote would be preferable to the electoral college method? 107 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 4: I do. I think. 108 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 2: First of all, we adopted the electoral college when we 109 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: were thirteen states, and we had a couple of. 110 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 4: Really big states and. 111 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: Some really really small states that had distinct differences. But 112 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: it also helped to load up the electoral votes of 113 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: the southern states that had slaves. And now we know 114 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: that the effect of the electoral college is to give 115 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: about thirty six extra votes to the most culturally conservative 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: and furthest right American states. And I have no objection 117 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: to them voting. I want them all to vote. I 118 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: would not unlike some of them. I'd never try to 119 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: make it harder for him to vote. I'd make it 120 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: easier for him to vote. I want the votes counted, 121 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: and I want them all to count. But I just 122 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: don't think you can justify that today. Now, if you 123 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: did it, the first question you got to ask yourself 124 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: is would we have more or a three party or 125 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: fourth party national elections? And if so, would we have 126 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: to have a runoff? That is, should you at least 127 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: require a president to have I don't know, forty percent 128 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: of the vote, forty five percent of the vote. Lincoln 129 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: got elected with like thirty nine percent. A lot of 130 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: countries have this, by the way, they have you know, 131 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: you have to get a majority, or you have to 132 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: get something over a minimal amount to be president. If 133 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 2: you're not going to go to a parliamentary system which 134 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: has a lot of coalition governments, you have to have 135 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: I think at least some sort of threshold. 136 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: I assume you prefer direct election as well. 137 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 4: Well. 138 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 5: I definitely prefer direct election. 139 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: So let me ask you. There's a famous passage in 140 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: your life where you are at Yale Law School library 141 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: and you're seeing Bill Clinton looking at you, and you're 142 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: looking at him, and finally you go over to him 143 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: and say, well, stop looking at me, let's have a 144 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: conversation or something like that. So, had you not been 145 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: in the same yet law school class or there at 146 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: the same time, how do you think your life would 147 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: be different? You think you would have been president of 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: United States sooner? Or would you have gone in the 149 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: public service, or how do you think your life would 150 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: be different if the two of you had not married? 151 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: Wow, I think it would have been more boring. 152 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: When you told your parents you're moving to Arkansas, what 153 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: did they say, Well. 154 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: You know my father, You know, when I was growing up, 155 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: my father was a very big supporter of Republicans, He 156 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: loved Dwight Eisenhower. 157 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 5: You know, he was you know, World War two vet. 158 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 5: He really loved that. 159 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 3: And so when I brought Bill home the first time, 160 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 3: it wasn't so much that he was from Arkansas, was 161 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 3: that he was a Democrat. 162 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: So Hillary came from the town Park Ridge, Illinois where 163 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: Goldwater beat Johnson eighty to twenty and the other twenty 164 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: percent Goldwater to Liberal. But I loved her father and 165 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: her mother, who was a liberal Democrat. She was more 166 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: liberal and iller than I were. And it was interesting 167 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: how they're listened to their marriage unfold in terms of 168 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 2: raising their children and advice and everything was different. But 169 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: he was a really good guy and smart, and he 170 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: wound up, you know, working as a volunteer in my 171 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: campaign for Congress in nineteen seventy four. 172 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 4: I ruined him. 173 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: President Clinton, when you were president three times, we had 174 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: a budget surplus. A surplus is when you have more 175 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: money than you spend. And at one point it was 176 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: thought that maybe we would run out of having any 177 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: federal treasury bills because we weren't going to have any debt. 178 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: Any ideas about how we can get back to that 179 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: kind of situation. 180 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I did have a big argument 181 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 4: with Alan Greenspan. Alan Greenspan was to my left. 182 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: He said, we're not going to be able to have 183 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: interest we can how do we set interest rates on 184 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: federal securities if we have no debt? I said, Alan, 185 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: that's a high class problem. Let's deal with that. We 186 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: get to it. 187 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 4: But let me say I also supported. 188 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 2: President obama stimulus program, and I supported the build President 189 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: Trump passed, and I supported the bill President Obama path. 190 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: When you have zero to negative interest rates, you can't 191 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 2: run a balance budget and you can't start cutting spending 192 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: without making the economy worse. But when you do have 193 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: interest rates, then you have to deal with your debt issue, 194 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: or otherwise you spend more and more of your money 195 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: pay an interest on the debt, and you don't have 196 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: anything left for education and health and all the science research. 197 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 2: So I think, first, here's what I think. First of all, 198 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: I think it's nuts to make a big issue of 199 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: this debt limit thing. And because that's simply it's a 200 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: stupid rule we have in America that that Congress has 201 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: to approve twice paying for something they've already voted to 202 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 2: spend on. I mean a lot of these people who 203 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: were opposing raising the debt ceiling. 204 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 4: Voted for most of the debt that is embedded there. 205 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: So bottom line, we should bring the depth sit down 206 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: as much as we can, but we ought to pay 207 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: our debts. You can't spend money, borrow it, and then 208 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: refuse to pay the people that loan it to you, 209 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: not if you want to be a great country. 210 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: So you ran for the presidential nomination. Barack Obama became 211 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: the nominee, and to your surprise, he offered you the 212 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: position of secretaries and you turned that down initially. Why 213 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: did you turn it down? 214 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: She turns everything down. She turned me down three times 215 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: when I asked her to marry it. 216 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 4: Hard. The false answer is no. 217 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: Well there is some truth to that, but eventually, you know, 218 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 3: I do say yes to these charming men like Bill 219 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: Clinton and Barack Obama. 220 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: For Parry Clinton, there's a very famous photo of you 221 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: sitting in the situation room looking at the Osama bin 222 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: laden effort to capture him. What were you all looking at? 223 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: And everybody's mouth is open. What were you afraid it 224 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: wasn't going to work? And when did you realize it 225 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: actually did work? 226 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: Well? 227 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were all afraid something would go wrong. You know, 228 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 3: I was part of the small group that studied all 229 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 3: of the intelligence that had been gathered to make recommendations 230 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 3: to the president about whether to do something and if so, 231 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 3: what And it was a It was the most intense 232 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: public deliberation, public service deliberation I've ever been part of. 233 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 5: And it was also you know, it was secret. 234 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: I couldn't tell Bill, I couldn't talk to anybody because 235 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 3: how closely held it was. But we were in that 236 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: small situation room off the big one, and we were 237 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: watching a screen because we had video from a drone above. 238 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: We had video of what was happening as the helicopters 239 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 3: came into land and one of the helicopters, its tail 240 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: clipped the wire on the wall surrounding a little area 241 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: where animals were kept. And so once the helicopter tail 242 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 3: hit we knew it was disabled. And that was the 243 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: moment I think that the picture was taken because we 244 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 3: all had flashbacks to what happened when you know, President 245 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: Carter tried to rescue the hostages in Iran. It also 246 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 3: meant that we'd have to send in another helicopter that 247 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: was in waiting in hiding to get it in there 248 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: quickly enough. 249 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 5: We had to do all of this literally. 250 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: You know, within twenty thirty minutes, because when people were 251 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: starting to wake up, I mean, we had helicopters landing. 252 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: You know, there was obviously noise. People were living in 253 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: homes around the compound. It was a hot night, people 254 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: were sleeping out on their roofs, and we were you 255 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 3: aware that people were waking up and starting. 256 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 5: To wonder what the heck was going on. 257 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: So when the helicopters landed and the Navy Seals Seal 258 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: Team six got out to go into the compound, we 259 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 3: couldn't see that there was there was no video of that, 260 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 3: so we were all holding our breasts. So then we 261 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: had to wait till we got news from inside the compound. 262 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 3: And there was a you know, there was a firefight. 263 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: The guards and one of bin Laden's adult sons were 264 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 3: you know, you know, shooting, and then eventually bin Laden 265 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: was shot, and then his body had to be taken 266 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 3: out of the compound loaded onto one of the helicopters 267 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 3: because we had to be sure about identification to have 268 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 3: credibility with the world, and we had to blow up 269 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: the helicopter because it was an advanced helicopter with a 270 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: lot of advanced electronics that we didn't want the Pakistanis 271 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: to get because we thought the Pakistanis might very well 272 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: give it to either of the Russians, most likely the Chinese. 273 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 5: So all this was going on, and so. 274 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we were all holding our breath for you, 275 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: like twenty minutes. It was just so intense, and thankfully, 276 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: you know, President Obama made the right decision and it worked. 277 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: When something like that's happening, you can't and you know 278 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: about this, you can't say to your husband, Bill, I 279 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: have a secret. I just can't tell you. You can't do that. 280 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: So he called me as soon as it was over, 281 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 2: and he said, Bill, we got him. 282 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 4: And I said who? Because he knew how hard I. 283 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 2: Tried to get him when I was president and nearly 284 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: did once, so he's been lauden. Hillary didn't tell you, 285 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: I said, now, mister President, didn't you tell her not 286 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: to tell anybody? 287 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 4: He said sure, But I said she didn't tell anybody. 288 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: Final question for both of you were just about out 289 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: of time. So Secretary Clinton, in your long distinguished career, 290 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: what would you say you're most proud of having accomplished you. 291 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 3: Know, I'd been Senator from New York for you know, 292 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: about eight months when nine to eleven happened, and it 293 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 3: was the most devastating, horrible experience for our city and 294 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 3: our country. 295 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 5: But it was also. 296 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: A absolute mandate to act to help people who'd been 297 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: directly affected, to help victims' families, to help rebuild New York, 298 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 3: and it was so bipartisan. David, you started with a 299 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 3: question about that at the very beginning. You know, I 300 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 3: just want to tell a little story here, because you know, 301 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 3: Chuck Schumer and I literally were the only plane in 302 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: the sky on September twelfth, because we were flown down 303 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: to New York to meet with then Governor Pataki and 304 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 3: Mayor Giuliani to survey what had happened. And it was 305 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 3: just overwhelming to have seen it firsthand like that that 306 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 3: television could not capture it. And we spent the day 307 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 3: in meetings talking. 308 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 5: About what we were going to do. 309 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 3: And that night, around eight nine o'clock, Schumer and I were, 310 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 3: you know, we're Chuck and I were in a meeting 311 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: with everybody, all these state, local, federal officials, and we 312 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: were each handed a note from our staffs who were 313 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: with us, and the note said, the White House has 314 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 3: just sent a budget request to deal with nine eleven 315 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 3: for twenty billion dollars and there's not a penny for 316 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: New York in it. So I took the last train 317 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 3: out of Grand Central back to Washington. 318 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 5: Then that afternoon we go to the White House. 319 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: And so it's the two senators from Virginia, Senator Allen 320 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 3: and Senator John Warner, and Chuck and I were in 321 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: with the President, and you know, I could see on 322 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 3: his face. I mean, this was you know, a devastating, 323 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 3: obviously you know, crisis that had to be dealt with. 324 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 3: And he says, he says to us, so, you know, 325 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: I'm with you, what do you need? And I said, 326 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: we need twenty billion dollars, mister President, and he said, 327 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: you got it, and his staff nearly fell off their chairs. 328 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 3: And so then we were going into the Cabinet room, 329 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 3: which is next to the Oval Office, and we got 330 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 3: up to leaving. John Warner, who was one of my 331 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 3: favorite colleagues of all time. He stopped me and he goes, Hillary, 332 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: have him make that commitment in public in this meeting. 333 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 5: I said, okay, John. 334 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 3: So we go in all the members of Congress from 335 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 3: New York, canad Get New Jersey, a couple of them, 336 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: but mostly New York and Virginia. And the President's talking 337 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 3: about how, you know, we're going to you know, protect 338 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 3: the country and we're going to do this and all that. 339 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 3: So he finishes talking and then I say, and I 340 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 3: just want to thank you, mister President, for committing twenty 341 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: billion dollars to New York. And literally, by the time 342 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: Chuck and I got back to the Senate, his staff 343 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 3: was trying to undo that and telling, you know, the 344 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: Republican leaders, you know, don't don't put it in the 345 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 3: appropriations bill, don't do it. And so we just kept 346 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: calling the White House and Bush that I gave my 347 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: word and you know I'm going to follow through. 348 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 5: That was an amazing moment for me. 349 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: So wow. So President Clinton, you look back on your 350 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: distinguished and long service to our country. What are you 351 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: most proud of having achieved? 352 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 4: Well? 353 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: Can I just add one thing to earn what he said? 354 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 2: One thing I like. 355 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 4: About George W. Bush. 356 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 2: We have fought, we had disagreed. He started out more 357 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: conservative than his father. We do speeches together that are 358 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: really funny now because we bad mouthed each other in 359 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 2: a funny way. 360 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 4: But he will listen. 361 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 2: And if he will listen, and if he thinks you're right, 362 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: he'll switch. And if he thinks you're wrong, he'll argue. 363 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: That's all you can ever ask. And I think that's 364 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: what you should remember. And that's when you asked me 365 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: in the beginning, and I said that the polarization was 366 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: partly because the right had been rewarded. It's also caused 367 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 2: the left too easily gives. 368 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 4: Up on people. 369 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 2: We should We shouldn't talk down about people. 370 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 4: We shouldn't. 371 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 5: You know. 372 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: The one thing I loved about Elijah Cummings and John 373 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: Lewis was they treated people respectfully and they just kept trying. 374 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 2: They kept knocking on the door. There's some other people 375 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: out there that you can knock on the door. 376 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: No regrets about not having going into the higher calling 377 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: of private equity, right, neither of you don't regret that. 378 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: So on, behalf of everybody at the ninety second Street. 379 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: Why oh, that's cause you take care of all the 380 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 2: stuff that requires real money to do you. 381 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 4: He gives a lot of that money away. Don't don't 382 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 4: let him play the rosko on. 383 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: Behalf of the ninety second Street why. I want to 384 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: thank you for coming here again. You've been here before 385 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: and you're always welcome back. And thank you for a 386 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: great evening. 387 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Gavin. 388 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You 389 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or 390 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: wherever you listen.