WEBVTT - My Psychic, She Wrote Me a Letter: Maria Duval

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, career, what's up?

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<v Speaker 3>Listen? You know it's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, oh okay. You know the expression w w

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<v Speaker 2>obd wwobd. What would Olivia Benson do? Right? Yes, So

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<v Speaker 2>your girl Olivia Benson aka Mariska hargatea.

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<v Speaker 3>On lawn order s su for those which.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't mean yes. So she was in the in the

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<v Speaker 2>park in New York, in a park in New York,

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<v Speaker 2>not Central Park, just in a park, and she was

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<v Speaker 2>shooting part of the twenty fifth season, the historic twenty

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<v Speaker 2>fifth season. Yeah, and this little girl approached her and

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<v Speaker 2>asked her for help because she recognized that she was

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<v Speaker 2>a cop, and so she literally helped a citizen as

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<v Speaker 2>Olivia Benson. And since she was able to help her

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<v Speaker 2>find her mother, see, they were in like I guess

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<v Speaker 2>Fort Tryon Park trying anyway, So the girl goes over

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<v Speaker 2>and she has to, like like Bariska Hartday, has to

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<v Speaker 2>halt production and then takes about twenty minutes. But they

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<v Speaker 2>helped the child locate her mother, and so she does

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<v Speaker 2>like full Olivia Benson and there's like photos of them

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<v Speaker 2>like getting together. It's like, oh see, my god. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>yeah right, and you're just like, is this real? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so there you go, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh I am silent screaming in especially heinous right now.

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<v Speaker 2>So there you go.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought that was a little ridiculous when reality becomes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well she's she's a very well known for you, captain.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, but totally. But it's also like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she's a what nine time Woman of the Year award winner.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know I have I have those reading glasses

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<v Speaker 3>that we call the Olivia Benson.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, your cheaters, you're Olivia Benson.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a god bless her.

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<v Speaker 2>What's ridiculous for you, Elizabeth?

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<v Speaker 3>Another thing that's ridiculous using your psychic powers for greed

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<v Speaker 3>when you could use them for silliness, Like I was.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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<v Speaker 3>and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free in

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>Saren. Yes, Oh sorry me.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought you were going to give me a like

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<v Speaker 3>ooh buddy or whatever You're going to say, Oh, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know I have you damn right.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'd like to surprise you. So you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought you were going to come in hot. No, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well you damn right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there it is. You know. I've written a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of books, yes, and I got them published. Yes, and

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<v Speaker 3>I am slash was working on a new one and

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<v Speaker 3>I stepped away from it for a few reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, why did you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm totally disillusioned by the publishing industry.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it's a crock.

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<v Speaker 3>I let my agent go a while back, and I

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<v Speaker 3>don't feel like hustling another one. Yeah, and I feel

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<v Speaker 3>like there's just not a place for me. And publishing

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<v Speaker 3>is just so dysfunctional.

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty wild right now. I hear a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the sad stories.

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<v Speaker 3>I have enough dysfunctional mess I don't need more.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't need that ADJECTI.

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<v Speaker 3>Another reason I stepped away is because the book is

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<v Speaker 3>kind of heavy, just physically physically heavy psych I always

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<v Speaker 3>ask people starting creative projects if it's something they want

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<v Speaker 3>to live in for however long it'll take.

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<v Speaker 2>You've asked me that. Yeah, I appreciate, it's never answered

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<v Speaker 2>the question. I consider.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that this one was kind of messing with me,

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<v Speaker 3>And so.

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<v Speaker 2>You didn't ask yourself.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I didn't you know? And so I love the idea,

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<v Speaker 3>but with the world the way it is and where

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<v Speaker 3>I am in my life, I just want to have

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<v Speaker 3>fun and laughs.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarin, I get it. I told get it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that's what I get to do here. So

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<v Speaker 3>you have fun, laugh, dance. You cut the tether on

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<v Speaker 3>that way and said, let's totally float baby. So you're

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<v Speaker 3>probably thinking cool story, bro or man, this is a Wendy's.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a point. I was actually thinking cool Wendy's, ma'am.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was reading up on this lady. I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to tell you about there are tons of parallels to

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<v Speaker 3>a character in my book. It's uncanny, Like you've read

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<v Speaker 3>parts of the book.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, written chapters, and you'll.

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<v Speaker 3>See you'll see where this all comes together. And like

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<v Speaker 3>the whole thing was kind of freaking me out as

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<v Speaker 3>I'm reading it, and I'm not sure, Like I looked

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<v Speaker 3>up and I am sure that I've never heard of

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<v Speaker 3>her before.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, process of just the news.

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<v Speaker 3>No, And there are strong elements that tie her story

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<v Speaker 3>to part of my book. And I'm wondering is that

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<v Speaker 3>a sign? And does this mean I should try finishing

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<v Speaker 3>the thing. Does it mean that I'm psychic.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so, because the lady I'm going.

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<v Speaker 3>To tell you about, Maria Duval, is a psychic.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Is this some sort of cosmic connection.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to say, a finger reaching out of the ether, Yes, to.

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<v Speaker 3>Tickle me ether. So Maria Duval she was born Maria

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<v Speaker 3>Carolina Gamba in nineteen thirty seven in Milan, in Italy.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a place to be born. Yeah, Milan.

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<v Speaker 3>Have ever been. Yeah, it's very Germany.

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<v Speaker 2>Very It feels very much like a financial town, all

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<v Speaker 2>the stuff that you think of. Yeah, it's all about

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<v Speaker 2>you know. Anyway, I'd like it a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Maria. She got married a bunch of times, and

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<v Speaker 3>so Duval was the name of her second husband. She

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<v Speaker 3>kind of stuck with that one. So she moved to

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<v Speaker 3>France with her family when she was young and according

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<v Speaker 3>to her, special powers run in her family of course,

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<v Speaker 3>and ever since she was a little girl, she's had

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<v Speaker 3>clairvoyant visions and she didn't think that was special. She thought, well,

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<v Speaker 3>that's what we all have.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the same thing.

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<v Speaker 3>This is what she said on her website quote, in

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<v Speaker 3>my family, we have possessed spiritual gifts for generations. The

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<v Speaker 3>Golden flex that you see in my eyes form quote

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<v Speaker 3>the sign in the Middle Ages, I would have been

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<v Speaker 3>burnt at the stake.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I've never heard golden flex was a sign of

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<v Speaker 2>a witch before. I Maybe I just don't get around

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<v Speaker 2>in the right well.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Maybe it's a French Italian thing.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of things I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>So, you know, same more so for me. According to

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<v Speaker 3>oh No, So anyway, her uncle, yes, father Camillo Vasally,

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<v Speaker 3>He was a priest in Ravenna, small city in northern Italy,

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<v Speaker 3>and so according to her Maria, he performed miracles and

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<v Speaker 3>the town considered him a saint, a little lesser, lesser

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<v Speaker 3>known saint. Yeah. And when he was on his deathbed

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<v Speaker 3>in nineteen fifty three, he called Maria to.

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<v Speaker 2>Him and it was there a distance.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, He's like, you know, we're like people, what we beat? Maria,

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<v Speaker 3>Come here, I'm dying. And so Maria goes like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>what's up? And he transfers the gift to her. That

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<v Speaker 3>was what it sounded like. Oh completely, So he told her,

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<v Speaker 3>I know you have the power already because of your eyes,

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<v Speaker 3>your eyeball gol. Yeah, and so I'm going to give

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<v Speaker 3>you my powers on top of double down, and you

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<v Speaker 3>have to use these powers for good, to help and

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<v Speaker 3>comfort others.

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<v Speaker 2>You're super powered up.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Then he was like, here have this talisman.

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<v Speaker 2>Like fireball Mario.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, when I was young and reading books and anytime

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<v Speaker 3>they'd like present someone with a talisman, I thought that

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<v Speaker 3>was the coolest thing ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, completely was like, I want a tal man.

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<v Speaker 2>I've waited my whole life for someone like this talisman.

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<v Speaker 2>It is very important.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to use it on some sort of quest anyway.

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<v Speaker 3>Her talisman was a gold pendulum on a chain, and

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<v Speaker 3>she would later use it to do stuff like find people.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, so like divining past.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she didn't become a professional psychic right away.

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<v Speaker 2>She wore a hypnotist with the pendula. Yeah, like he

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<v Speaker 2>was looking into my eyes.

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<v Speaker 3>For a while, So she's not a psychic off the bat.

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<v Speaker 3>She worked as a scout at a couple of art

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<v Speaker 3>galleries in Paris.

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<v Speaker 2>Was an art scout.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, like a cub scout, but an art scout.

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<v Speaker 2>She wore the outfit shelpist.

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<v Speaker 3>She would gather badges, she looks for lost artists. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>she'd help artists find new stronger names. More in line

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<v Speaker 3>with the Kabbalah that would bring them a better chance

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<v Speaker 3>at success. Okay, I don't know what that means. She

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<v Speaker 3>worked at a large bank, Like your.

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<v Speaker 2>Name is Pablo Fancy and how about Picasso.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, So she's worked. She worked at a bank, not

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<v Speaker 3>as a teller, but she helped narrow down candidates for

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<v Speaker 3>executive positions using quote, graphological, morphological, and astrological texts.

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<v Speaker 2>So she looks at their handwriting, looks at their face,

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<v Speaker 2>and then she looks.

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<v Speaker 3>At the resumes, and she's like good bad good good bad,

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<v Speaker 3>like puts them into piles. She also said that she

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<v Speaker 3>worked with many other heads of industry, helping them set

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<v Speaker 3>up their companies. And she said that she can't make

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<v Speaker 3>problems disappear, but she can identify them and like point

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<v Speaker 3>people that you know what's wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Your foot's broken, exactly, Doc.

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<v Speaker 3>That's in the corporate world. It's a huge problem, broken foot.

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<v Speaker 3>So she'd also help businesses set dates to make important

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<v Speaker 3>decisions or like for movies to premiere. So this is

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<v Speaker 3>like we're getting in Nancy Reagan territory.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, give me a special date.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>At history different figure out why the thing had happened on.

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<v Speaker 3>Is how she explains right or the times of such.

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<v Speaker 3>She said, people are really surprised when you have to

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<v Speaker 3>time a film release to coincide with the full moon,

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<v Speaker 3>because when there's a full moon, people are much more

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<v Speaker 3>likely to go out than during other lunar phases.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, they can see more at night, especure heart attacks. Whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>She wasn't just doing this. She had another job as

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<v Speaker 3>a She owned a pool and sauna cleaning business. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's adjacent.

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<v Speaker 2>She's not actually cleaning the sauna's issue.

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<v Speaker 3>I think she probably hired.

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<v Speaker 2>She had like a bunch of like boys and like

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<v Speaker 2>cut off shorts clean but still she's like.

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<v Speaker 3>We will only clean under you know, mercury.

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<v Speaker 2>But she gets a call, she's like, oh, I gotta

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<v Speaker 2>go divine the mood.

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<v Speaker 3>She owned clothing stores in the south of France, in

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<v Speaker 3>and around the town of Callous, and she like Maria Callis. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>it was at one of the stores that she started

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<v Speaker 3>giving psychic readings, where she's like, Okay, I'm not just

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<v Speaker 3>going to manipulate industry.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a personal person.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to manipulate people. And she started getting attention

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<v Speaker 3>just locally at first, for seven years she worked at

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<v Speaker 3>three different radio stations doing astrological charts for listeners. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>she's like, call her here on the air.

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<v Speaker 2>I always going to be a ventriloquist on the radio.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the whole thing. There were a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>ventriloquists on the radio, like how great is that?

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<v Speaker 3>It's just like two people exactly, but it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the whole thing and you're now matching someone having

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<v Speaker 2>the puppet.

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<v Speaker 3>There astrologery like the magic of radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then astrologers like the same thing. They're like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're just sitting there and like their pajamas,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're actually like before the crystal ball. Yeah, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to do it, don't have to pay for

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<v Speaker 2>smoke bombs.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 3>And so she also she had a segment on French

0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.600
<v Speaker 3>TV called Bibi Bonu where she'd give horoscopes to babies

0:10:58.600 --> 0:10:59.560
<v Speaker 3>on their first birthdays.

0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.160
<v Speaker 2>She's about to say it, Wait a minute.

0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.800
<v Speaker 3>She's a little bit of this, a little bit of this.

0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.080
<v Speaker 3>By the seventies, she was showing up in the paper

0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:11.800
<v Speaker 3>and nice for her psychic work.

0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.720
<v Speaker 2>She was she was in French vogue.

0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.240
<v Speaker 3>OK. So she said at first she didn't want to

0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.720
<v Speaker 3>change people. She just wanted to help people. But eventually

0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:28.160
<v Speaker 3>she became a professional. So she studied for ten years

0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:33.160
<v Speaker 3>at an esoteric school and she ten years, yeah, ten years,

0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.280
<v Speaker 3>and she joined quoting various movements, including Druidic movements.

0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, but.

0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.600
<v Speaker 3>That didn't work out because she don't like the robes. No,

0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.400
<v Speaker 3>she was like, I'm Italian and so I'm more inclined

0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:48.080
<v Speaker 3>towards Greco Latin modalities. Oh of course, She's like, it's

0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:48.920
<v Speaker 3>too white for me.

0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 2>And so much walking in a circle got a chanting.

0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 2>I like, more like laying about in smoke exactly, more

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.160
<v Speaker 2>fruit involved in my ceremonies.

0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.240
<v Speaker 3>So she said. She later established the French Institute for

0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Parapsychological Research to foster that, and she was also the president,

0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 3>also a member, also a member, and it was sometimes

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.600
<v Speaker 3>called the Callous Parapsychology Institute. Okay, there's this book called

0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 3>A Deal with the Devil about Maria Tufall, and it

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.760
<v Speaker 3>came out in twenty eighteen and in it, authors Blake

0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.080
<v Speaker 3>Ellis and Melanie Hicken, they write, quote, she claims that

0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.120
<v Speaker 3>she has provided guidance to Hollywood stars who pay seven

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:28.080
<v Speaker 3>hundred dollars for a session, and several American presidents and

0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.080
<v Speaker 3>many other political leaders. In fact, she says many of

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 3>the world's richest and most famous celebrities never make a

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 3>decision without consulting her first, and that she is the

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.280
<v Speaker 3>only psychic ever to have been granted an audience with

0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:39.800
<v Speaker 3>the Pope.

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you know, like if you're on social media right, like,

0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 2>and you follow some of the people I follow, you're

0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 2>going to get things of like yo, I got like, okay,

0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:49.760
<v Speaker 2>my people are sitting now they're going they're doing a

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 2>humiliation ritual on this side the celebrity. Right, It'll be like,

0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, some young black celebrity has to be humiliated,

0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 2>so now they can join the illuminati. Oh right, I've

0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 2>seen claims and I'm like, come on, now, you really

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 2>come on people. But at the same time, then you

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.080
<v Speaker 2>go on this side. When we were investigating, it's always

0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>like the President came to me, I met with the Pope,

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, okay, So a lot of people believe

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.200
<v Speaker 2>in these occult things, so like, oh yeah, I think

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 2>that some of these people when they come out there

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 2>with the it's a humiliation ritual and see where they're trying.

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm like some of them have to be right, and

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 2>just the numbers exactly. I'm not saying which ones, but

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 2>because of how much we're hearing from the other end

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.800
<v Speaker 2>of the well, presidents came here and decided when should

0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I start the war?

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly, So a humiliation ritual for a.

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.079
<v Speaker 2>Young to join the illuminati or whatever. I'm not necessarily backing,

0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 2>but one.

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 3>With the pope. CNN did an investigation into her with

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.440
<v Speaker 3>these authors, and they later revealed that, according to a friend,

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 3>Maria had technically met with the Pope and shook his hand,

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 3>but she was like part of a crowd. Oh so,

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 3>and there was not like a personal audience.

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Ah yeah, so met the pope. I read the same

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:56.480
<v Speaker 2>as the Pope.

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. She shook his hand, she reached out over

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.800
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of other people high five during So about

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.160
<v Speaker 3>that talisman and the missing person and.

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 2>The missing you were wondering, I just checked my notes.

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:10.680
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for asking.

0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:11.679
<v Speaker 2>You haven't circled back.

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm about to circle back.

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Put a pin in it.

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.439
<v Speaker 3>There are a lot of variations on this story, but

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 3>here suggest around nineteen seventy seven, the wife of a

0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 3>young dentist disappeared. It is not important to know that

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 3>he was a dentist. Yeah, but this is this is

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 3>in the south of France. She took off her car

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 3>on like a Tuesday afternoon and no one had seen

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 3>her after that, and then hikers found her car the

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 3>next morning abandoned. She was nowhere to be found. And

0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 3>this is pre cell phone, mind you, so they couldn't

0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 3>try and call or like look for her.

0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 3>The authorities sent out search parties, two helicopters, the fire

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 3>brigade end quote the best police dog in the region,

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 3>called Droll four. Researcher Marissa pointed out that no information

0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 3>is available about the presumed police dogs Droll one, two

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 3>and three where they also amazing was one a bad apple?

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 3>Where was there a mister or missus droll? Keep in

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 3>mind that in French droll means funny. It can also

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:20.040
<v Speaker 3>mean odd in some idioms, so like is it's a

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 3>funny old word or present I had I have an

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 3>odd premonition and I'm probably not saying those right, and

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 3>that's maybe a little I'm understanding them. You've got it

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.080
<v Speaker 3>because I translated the language work. It's the language of ridiculousness.

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 3>So who was droll for a weird little When you

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 3>Google image search droll for dog, you get lots of

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 3>weird AI cat pictures and then they're like leggings with

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 3>cats printed in the eyes are on the crotch. I

0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 3>don't know, just do it image search for ivy for

0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 3>dog and then you get all this weird Anyway, Maria

0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 3>she saw the story about the missing woman in the

0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 3>paper and she offered to help. And she asked for

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 3>the woman's date of birth, a recent photo, and a

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 3>map of the area. And she put the photo on

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 3>the map and then held the gold pendulum over the map,

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.040
<v Speaker 3>and the pendulum it starts to swing as they do,

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 3>and it starts to spin over a certain region, and

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 3>the cops they're skeptical, this kind of seems like a

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 3>waste of time and hokum at that. So they called

0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 3>back the rescue helicopter. They're like, you know what, we

0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:28.480
<v Speaker 3>give up.

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>It's a pendulum that's sending you out there.

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 3>And they're like, maybe she disappeared on purpose and taken

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 3>herself out of the game, so to speak. So the husband, though,

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 3>is like, no more helicopter, helicopter, and so he hires

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 3>a private helicopter and says search over where the pendulum

0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 3>was spinning, and so he believed in her. He knew

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.400
<v Speaker 3>his wife was still out there waiting to be found.

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>And she was what.

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:54.880
<v Speaker 3>She was, hurt and unconscious. She hadn't eaten or had

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 3>anything to drink or even move for three days and

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 3>nights and she was discovered and Marie, I said, the

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.119
<v Speaker 3>pendulum worked because quote, everything in the universe vibrates and

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 3>sends out different waves. To find something or someone that

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 3>has gone missing, the vibrations which hold a connection with

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.639
<v Speaker 3>the subject or the person must be investigated and determined.

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 3>That is what I did with the help of the

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 3>star sign and the photo of the woman. Then I

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.040
<v Speaker 3>simply gave the information to my hanging lamp and asked

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 3>for the source of these vibrations to be pointed out

0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 3>on the map.

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:25.919
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's easy to the CIA. I have it.

0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.159
<v Speaker 2>They have a whole program that is taken from the

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 2>one guy's other program. He's like around to hear anyway,

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the CIA, they have a whole thing. I've been reading

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>a bunch about how to psychically trained according to the CIA,

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>and is all this exact same stuff. Let's do it.

0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 3>Let's start us. Let's do a seminar.

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, I'm down.

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.159
<v Speaker 3>So we'll host a seminar and we don't know how

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 3>to do it. Oh we're gonna host you yeah, yea, yeah,

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.359
<v Speaker 3>we're okay. No, no, no, We're going to put on so

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.479
<v Speaker 3>much easier. I know it'll be a ridiculous grind. So

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.479
<v Speaker 3>the story of this incredible vibration went viral by seventy

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 3>standards all over France. People heard about it and they

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 3>felt that Maria was the real deal, like a psychic hero.

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 3>It said that in total she helped find nineteen people

0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.000
<v Speaker 3>over the years. Yeah, and plus some cats and a donkey,

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 3>the missing donkey. Oh and she said she found Brigitte

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.119
<v Speaker 3>Bardeau's missing dog. Okay, And the only problem is that

0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Bardew later told CNN that her dog was found dead

0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 3>drowned in a pool and that Duval had nothing to

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 3>do with any of it, which is a bummer detail.

0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Wait, so she lied about finding Bridget Bardew's dog. When

0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.879
<v Speaker 2>someone went to question that, Bridget Bardow is like, well,

0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 2>if I got a story for you, Oh yeah, no,

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:32.880
<v Speaker 2>she had nothing.

0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:34.840
<v Speaker 3>But this is horrible and I'm an animal lover and

0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.160
<v Speaker 3>somehow I let my dog drown Wow. So Maria said

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.520
<v Speaker 3>that she was involved in quote, one of the biggest

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 3>criminal cases the world has ever known. Let's take a break.

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.159
<v Speaker 3>When we come back, I'll tell you about the biggest

0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 3>criminal case the world has ever known.

0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Zaren yo. Hey, so we were talking about Maria Duval.

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking about bridge Bordo's dog.

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.720
<v Speaker 3>But there's that too. Let's give a moment of yeah. Okay,

0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.600
<v Speaker 3>we gave him over the rainbow. Yeah, the rambow bridge.

0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.439
<v Speaker 3>All right, So Maria Duval she said that she was

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.600
<v Speaker 3>involved in one of the biggest criminal cases the world

0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.680
<v Speaker 3>has ever known. Yes, that's the Raoul Vallenberg case.

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh wait a minute, Raoul Wallenberg. Uh huh okay Vallenburg sure, yes,

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying it wrong.

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 3>Swedish architect, Yes, and a diplomat who saved thousands of

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Jews in German occupied Hungary during the Holocaust.

0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.320
<v Speaker 2>How is she involved, Well, let's give me.

0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Let me tell you a little bit more about him.

0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 3>He was Sweden's Special envoy in Budapest between July and

0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 3>December of nineteen forty four, and in that time he

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 3>issued protective passports sheltered Jews and buildings, which he declared

0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.439
<v Speaker 3>Swedish territory. So January seventeenth, nineteen forty five, during the

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.760
<v Speaker 3>siege of Budapest by the Red arm Me agents captured

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Vollenberg and accused him of espionage, and then he disappeared.

0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Nineteen fifty seven, twelve years after he went missing, Soviet

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 3>authorities said he died of a heart attack two years

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.120
<v Speaker 3>after he had been last seen, and that he'd been

0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 3>locked up in Lubyanka, the secret police's prison in Moscow.

0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:20.359
<v Speaker 2>He died of weak art.

0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's so sad. The family didn't believe this.

0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, no, really, and there.

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 3>Had been reports and whisperings that Vallenberg had been seen

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 3>in Soviet prisons and mental institutions in subsequent years. So

0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.800
<v Speaker 3>they reached out to Maria and they asked if he

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.440
<v Speaker 3>was still in the Russian prison or maybe had he escaped.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.280
<v Speaker 3>She was like, let me think on it. She gets

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.840
<v Speaker 3>the pendulum. She's like, he had a heart attack, he died.

0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 3>When they said he did, she said that he had

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.440
<v Speaker 3>it because he'd been tortured. So she adds in a

0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 3>little bit of extra juice. Sorry, And during her consultations

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 3>for this and others, she generally used tarot cards.

0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>She does, like remote viewing via tarot card I.

0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Think, so, yeah, there's a lot of stuff she doesn't like.

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Other things she'd do, she'd ask people to hit a

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:10.920
<v Speaker 3>bell three times, you know, shuttles and then splash inc

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 3>thirteen times, of course, and then she'd interpret the answers

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:18.440
<v Speaker 3>out of that, and so like, if she was having

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 3>a really hard time with a vision, she'd use a

0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.480
<v Speaker 3>crystal ball, And apparently those are really hard work and

0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 3>they take a lot of concentration, so she wasn't into that.

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:32.119
<v Speaker 3>So you know, she's established herself. She had this personal secretary,

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:37.639
<v Speaker 3>Francois bar and Francoise later became the mayor of the

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.159
<v Speaker 3>small French town that Maria lived in, Callous, and she

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.959
<v Speaker 3>vouched for Maria's abilities. She said she'd seen it all

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.920
<v Speaker 3>in action. She said that there was a motorcyclist who'd

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 3>been in an accident and couldn't walk very well, and

0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 3>that Maria apparently used her power of radiothesia, which is

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.840
<v Speaker 3>sensitiveness held to enable a person with the aid of

0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 3>a divining rod or pendulum to detect things. You know

0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 3>who said that Webster's Dictionary, oh defines radiothesia, so basically

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.040
<v Speaker 3>divining rods. So she used that on the motorcycle boy.

0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Feeling through the form of radiant.

0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like she's just like she's holding like two sticks.

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.480
<v Speaker 3>She spent an hour with the guy just swinging the

0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.720
<v Speaker 3>old pendulum over him. When she was done, he walked

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:31.040
<v Speaker 3>away normally amazing, incredible, that a miracle, some would Barr

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 3>also said there was another woman who would always call

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 3>Maria asking for good lotto numbers, and that woman was

0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 3>not me. Uh So Maria would tell her to be

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.399
<v Speaker 3>careful with her money and take out a low interest

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.320
<v Speaker 3>loan to pay off her debt, which is more debt

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.560
<v Speaker 3>to pay off debt. But okay, sure that doesn't make

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 3>sense to be anyway. I guess consolidate her debt is

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 3>what she's saying.

0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm the one to talk about.

0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.520
<v Speaker 3>Woman didn't want to hear all that. Yeah, and she

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:55.640
<v Speaker 3>wanted the lotto numbers. She's like, that's great and all.

0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 2>But what of the lives? What's the winning numbers?

0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 3>And she she kept calling and Maria just started ignoring her.

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 3>Keep calling me alone, Becky. And so she said people

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 3>who wanted an instant fixed were just a waste of

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 3>her time.

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:09.400
<v Speaker 2>She wanted nothing to do with them.

0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.359
<v Speaker 3>People asked her to predict their deaths, and that was

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 3>apparently something she could do. Yeah, but no, you thought

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:20.680
<v Speaker 3>about it, No do you?

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't. It turns on the day you ask me.

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:25.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't want to know.

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Because I don't mind knowing something. But some days I'd

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:28.880
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, I don't want to know. Other days

0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.199
<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, oh, definitely, I may relieve the pressure.

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 3>I feel like. It's also for the like I don't

0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:35.400
<v Speaker 3>want like a ring camera at my front door.

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a little different.

0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Okay, because like around here, if someone brings into your house,

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.040
<v Speaker 3>you can give the cops the footage. It doesn't do anything.

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.960
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't mean anything. But if a psychic tells you

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:45.720
<v Speaker 2>doesn't necessarily.

0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 3>But it's also like, but if I saw someone prowling

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 3>around my yard but nothing happened, I don't want to know.

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 3>I rather live in bliss.

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.560
<v Speaker 2>You like that the bliss. I'm full of bliss there.

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.000
<v Speaker 3>So she would never she would never do that tell

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 3>people she knew, Yeah, she would, she would never tell

0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.720
<v Speaker 3>anyone the answer. She did do a couple exorcisms, but

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:06.959
<v Speaker 3>only a few of them because, like she said, they

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 3>were super super difficult, and it was a very special thing.

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:11.160
<v Speaker 2>You also have to worry about that the imagine taking

0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 2>on some dark alga.

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.119
<v Speaker 3>She said. One of them left burn marks on her knees,

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:16.440
<v Speaker 3>but there was no fire.

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Just from the friction of like praying so hard, Saren.

0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 3>It was really spooky. Neighbors, Oh, was that what you

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:24.400
<v Speaker 3>were doing?

0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Maria? So uh, I'm not going to say.

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:32.560
<v Speaker 3>Sometime in the mid eighties she sold her name. But

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 3>what you mean, It's like around nineteen eighty five a

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 3>trademark for the commercial use of the name Maria Duval

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 3>was issued in France.

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:40.480
<v Speaker 2>She passed it on like Gallagher.

0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it's like Menudo. It's unclear or unknown if

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Maria took this out herself or if it was because

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 3>of her early dealings with the businessmen who would later

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 3>run her empire. And later there were other similar trademarks

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:58.359
<v Speaker 3>taken out all over the world. So who are those businessmen?

0:24:58.480 --> 0:24:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Who are those businessmen?

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.320
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for asking? Jacques Mail and Jean Claude Reel

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:11.119
<v Speaker 3>for real, And so they reached out to her about

0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:13.680
<v Speaker 3>using her name for a mailing campaign for their business.

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 3>And you know, she's super well known as a psychic

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 3>in France, Yeah, market her powers, and according to her

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:24.520
<v Speaker 3>son Antoine, she was dazzled by these guys and the offer,

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:27.320
<v Speaker 3>and she didn't really read the contract. She was like, perfect,

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 3>I'll do it. And she said, you know, for the

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 3>first decade that we worked together, things were fine.

0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>That's good in business, ten years.

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:37.159
<v Speaker 3>Ten years, but greed always rears its ugly head, and

0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:40.879
<v Speaker 3>that's when things got bad. At first, the business only

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:45.160
<v Speaker 3>sold astrology charts, but later their business model changed to letters,

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.199
<v Speaker 3>and so the contract was structured in a way that

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:50.159
<v Speaker 3>she couldn't get out of it. So she's really the

0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 3>con men's first victim. As part of her contract, she

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:57.159
<v Speaker 3>had to do press and touring, and this was so

0:25:57.200 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 3>people could see that she was a real person, and

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 3>it took her all over Europe and beyond and beyond.

0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:07.440
<v Speaker 3>In two thousand and eight, she spoke in Moscow at

0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:10.639
<v Speaker 3>the Central House of Journalists where she forecasted the future

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 3>of Russia. And apparently as part of this, seven hundred

0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 3>thousand apple trees were planted near Moscow and all named

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Maria duval I. Have no idea why or what.

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>That means, what it, what does.

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 3>It have to do with it? That's a lot of trees.

0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.120
<v Speaker 3>That's a lot of apple apples.

0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 3>So anyway, Maria Duvall letters, as you can probably guess,

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:41.159
<v Speaker 3>they evolved into a scam.

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:42.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm guessing.

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 3>The letter scam is considered one of the world's longest

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:50.320
<v Speaker 3>running cons. Her letter scam in particular is considered one

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:53.440
<v Speaker 3>of the longest running cons in the whole wide world.

0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 3>It's taken place all over this this beautiful globe, including US, Canada, Denmark,

0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.400
<v Speaker 3>and Russia, Norway, New Zealand, Finland, Japan, Australia. I could

0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:02.840
<v Speaker 3>go on.

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Worldwide sattle down.

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.600
<v Speaker 3>In the beginning, they started with like newspaper ads and

0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 3>they wouldn't mention Maria Duvall. Well, they were supposed to

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:16.200
<v Speaker 3>be research studies and they would ask readers to send

0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:19.080
<v Speaker 3>in personal details like their zodiac sign, the time of

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 3>their birth, their marital status, in exchange to win a

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 3>lot of money. And you remember how it feels like,

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 3>you know, in the eighties, there would always be those

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:30.560
<v Speaker 3>mailers to your house with like fill out this consumer question.

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:33.440
<v Speaker 3>So they didn't even bother sending them. They just put

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:35.320
<v Speaker 3>it as an ad in the paper, tell us about you,

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 3>and people like okay, sure, and so the conment took

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.240
<v Speaker 3>this information and they used it to create profiles, and

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:44.399
<v Speaker 3>then they crossed referenced it with information purchased from data

0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:47.399
<v Speaker 3>brokers and two other kinds of lists. They had a

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.600
<v Speaker 3>look alike list, which a list of new names and

0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:54.320
<v Speaker 3>addresses of people who look in demographics wise like the

0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 3>current customer base.

0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's similar to what you're talking about.

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, doppelganger list.

0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 2>This guy looks like you got it, see kid, it's great.

0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:05.159
<v Speaker 2>It looks like deb Winger.

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:08.600
<v Speaker 3>And then there was a shop a like list, so

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 3>people who bought similar things as the victims. So they

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:15.160
<v Speaker 3>were just like building these huge profiles. Then the next

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 3>part of the scam starts. The victim they get letters

0:28:18.040 --> 0:28:21.879
<v Speaker 3>from a French psychic named Maria Duval just out of nowhere,

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 3>Clayton Gerber of the US Postal Inspection Services quote. These

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 3>would be printed via mail merge, so your name would

0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:32.560
<v Speaker 3>appear throughout. These were multi page letters, six or eight

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:35.480
<v Speaker 3>or ten pages long. They would have graphics like they

0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 3>have changes in font and they would have marginal notes

0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:40.840
<v Speaker 3>to make it look like if your eyesight wasn't great,

0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 3>it would look like somebody had written a handwritten note

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 3>on the side of it. They they appeared to be

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 3>very personalized, like the letter was written directly to you,

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 3>like this was a friend writing to you. And many

0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:54.360
<v Speaker 3>people wrote back, yeah, I like that if your eyesight

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 3>isn't great. So it's like if I opened it up

0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 3>and I'd be like, oh yeah, oh look they wrote.

0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Me a note, all these little notes on the side.

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:03.560
<v Speaker 3>Some of the letters even had a fake coffee cup

0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 3>stain on the paper to make it look more authentic.

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 3>And I guess a lot of people who got the

0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 3>letters didn't remember filling out the original questionnaire.

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Time past I'm sure.

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:16.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and well while they run all the list.

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you wouldn't think that you'd be.

0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:20.360
<v Speaker 3>And so there was all this personal information and the

0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:24.400
<v Speaker 3>personalized letters. They seemed like proof of Maria's abilities. So,

0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 3>for example, she'd say, you are mainly under the influence

0:29:27.640 --> 0:29:30.280
<v Speaker 3>of venus in addition to being born on May twenty second,

0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:34.000
<v Speaker 3>nineteen twenty seven, in Kansas City at twelve pm. I

0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 3>can already see some aspects of your personality. So if

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:39.040
<v Speaker 3>you're just getting this, what you think is just a

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:41.240
<v Speaker 3>cold letter, like that's crazy.

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:42.719
<v Speaker 2>But she already knows that you like you know broken

0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.560
<v Speaker 2>for cheese. She's like mentioning it by Tiede. Yeah.

0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:50.640
<v Speaker 3>Here are some more excerpts. Quote two internationally renowned mediums

0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 3>have predicted what your future holds. The news is fantastic.

0:29:54.720 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 3>Note these four things that are very important to you.

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 3>April second, twenty fourteen, Winnings problems solved, Like are you

0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:08.120
<v Speaker 3>kidding me? To celebrate your new life, we have prepared

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 3>a mysterious and extraordinary gift, a powerful talisman who can

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:16.480
<v Speaker 3>attract money and chance. It's the same talisman that Patrick

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Gren wears with him at all times. He never shared it,

0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:23.960
<v Speaker 3>but in your case, he didn't. Hesitates Patrick Gwren is

0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 3>another cycle.

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Sure, like a you're a Geller type whatever.

0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 3>And then quote if you've got a special bottle of

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Bubbly that you've been saving for celebrating great news, then

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:34.040
<v Speaker 3>now's the time to open it.

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel so bad for the people who fall victim

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:37.719
<v Speaker 2>to this.

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

0:30:39.120 --> 0:30:41.080
<v Speaker 2>It's easier for me to always deal with people who

0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:44.480
<v Speaker 2>fall victim to a con man because they actively want

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>to try to like get over on somebody else. Like

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I like, I don't mind those so much because it's like, oh,

0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:50.840
<v Speaker 2>you tried to get greedy. He thought you could be

0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 2>on the inside. You thought you could be on the

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:54.280
<v Speaker 2>All of a sudden, somebody turned it on. You're like,

0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>oh no, and you can't even go to the cops.

0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Right of counterfeit money machines exactly.

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.520
<v Speaker 2>But like putting a fake ring on and notes on

0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:03.840
<v Speaker 2>the side, so people with poor eyesight are confused. I

0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>now know who they're trying to hit. It's mostly old people. Yeah,

0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like and old people who have some

0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 2>belief in the world, Like, come on on the way out,

0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:11.760
<v Speaker 2>you're going to kick them a couple of times and

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:13.080
<v Speaker 2>take those all.

0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:16.840
<v Speaker 3>Horrible anyway, There's this Canadian magazine, The Walrus. They wrote

0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:22.200
<v Speaker 3>quote some correspondence directed recipients to purchase supposedly supernatural objects,

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 3>while others urged them to use provided green envelopes to

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 3>mail personal items, family photographs, palm prints, locks of hair

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:31.760
<v Speaker 3>against a promise that the psychic would use them to

0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:35.720
<v Speaker 3>conduct personalized rituals. Once this envelope has been sealed, it

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:38.719
<v Speaker 3>may be only opened by me. Read one letter that

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 3>included Duval's photocopied signature. So sometimes the money request would

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.840
<v Speaker 3>come only after they responded. Maria would offer more help,

0:31:46.880 --> 0:31:50.160
<v Speaker 3>but if they pay, And according to the Postal inspector

0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Gerber quote, the ask was always for twenty thirty forty dollars.

0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:57.200
<v Speaker 3>In return, you might get some sort of tiny trinket,

0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 3>some sort of little talisman, some sort of newsletter. You

0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 3>always got another solicitation. You always got another letter that

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 3>was a personalized plea asking for more money. And then

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.960
<v Speaker 3>there was an escalation of some sixty seventy eighty different letters.

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:13.800
<v Speaker 3>It was a progression. You paid on letter one, you

0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:15.719
<v Speaker 3>got letter two, you paid on letter two, you got

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 3>letter three. And it was always an ask for money.

0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Confuse, are we talking about American political parties? This is

0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:24.200
<v Speaker 2>like the emails you get from Oh my God, always

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe at trinket.

0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:31.320
<v Speaker 3>Here's a bumper sticker. So those talisman trinkets cheap plastic

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:35.120
<v Speaker 3>trinkets mass produced in China. Or it was a quote

0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 3>vibratory crystal that they described as quote they are wrenched

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 3>from the mountains by volcanic eruptions and erosion, falling into

0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 3>rivers where they are sought for their beauty and their powers.

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.040
<v Speaker 3>The crystal is a living stone that has a heart,

0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:51.200
<v Speaker 3>a sort of atomic battery with the power to harness

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:55.200
<v Speaker 3>and redirect energy. This pure energy can channel your thoughts

0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:57.960
<v Speaker 3>and then change the course of events. As soon as

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 3>you wear your vibratory crystal, your mind instantly sharpens and

0:33:01.960 --> 0:33:05.000
<v Speaker 3>you feel your energy level surge. Nothing can stand in

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:07.560
<v Speaker 3>your way. You are going to find it easy to

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.280
<v Speaker 3>harness that strength to get whatever you want from life

0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 3>and resolve all your problems.

0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Of course, I mean, just put the crystal, the vibratory crystal.

0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they're getting like I'm sure these crystals from like

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Kazakhstan for like you know, a one ton for five

0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 2>francs or whatever and then just handing them out. But like,

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:25.200
<v Speaker 2>other than the fact that there are a lot of

0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 2>people who can point out stuff about like oh crystals

0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:29.959
<v Speaker 2>and rocks and that will do some things, you know,

0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Like but I like how this stuff is always like

0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:34.120
<v Speaker 2>it's going to do everything. It's gonna it's gonna fix

0:33:34.160 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>your whole life. Might just totally. It could just make

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 2>you feel little better, it might orient some energies or whatever. Nope,

0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 2>they're like, no, this one's going to file your totally.

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 3>So between nineteen ninety four and twenty fourteen, the scam

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:50.240
<v Speaker 3>earned more than one hundred and seventy five million US

0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:53.800
<v Speaker 3>dollars from the US and Canada and uh.

0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Over the crazy such a small ass.

0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:57.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some got up to like thousands of thousands that

0:33:57.720 --> 0:33:59.840
<v Speaker 3>they were handing over. Others had her on their an

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 3>old Christmas card.

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.120
<v Speaker 2>It's got to be so many people who follow evict

0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:04.360
<v Speaker 2>him to this to get to those numbers.

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Oh, completely, And so let's learn about these two con

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 3>men please. Jean Claude Reel was a Swiss businessman and

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 3>Jacques Mallard French marketing genius so real he had experienced

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 3>in the mail order world. He sold like painkiller bracelets

0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 3>and a device that instantly ages wine shoe and steps

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 3>that help you lose weight and so earlier in.

0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:32.120
<v Speaker 2>His bracelet makes your hair grow back.

0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:35.800
<v Speaker 3>He had been into like UFO stuff earlier in his life. Yeah.

0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.279
<v Speaker 3>And then he also owned a company called Infojest, the

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.400
<v Speaker 3>mail or her company. Yeah, infojest, but with a g

0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:46.800
<v Speaker 3>okay jest. Yeah, and so they that was the company

0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:50.200
<v Speaker 3>behind the scam Infojest. When CNN tracked him down in

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:53.200
<v Speaker 3>twenty fourteen, Reel told the journalists that while he had

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 3>once owned Infojest, he hadn't been involved in many many

0:34:56.760 --> 0:34:59.200
<v Speaker 3>years he retired in two thousand and six. Total lies,

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:01.759
<v Speaker 3>not true all And he said he kind of only

0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:08.239
<v Speaker 3>knew Maria casually at that time. Mayon, the marketing guy,

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:10.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, he's the one who kind of just connected

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:11.320
<v Speaker 3>the dots.

0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:11.879
<v Speaker 2>He's friends.

0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 3>She knew about Maria and France and like, you know,

0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:15.440
<v Speaker 3>connected it all over.

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:17.200
<v Speaker 2>So I've heard of her. I knew people that might

0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:17.879
<v Speaker 2>want to know her.

0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:22.480
<v Speaker 3>So they have this Infojess that's in the in North America.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:25.359
<v Speaker 3>But then they had like a Swiss subsidiary. They had

0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:28.360
<v Speaker 3>them all over the world. They're doing this in other countries,

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:31.480
<v Speaker 3>other languages. But here's like, here's an example for North America.

0:35:32.000 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 3>Infojest Direct Marketing wrote and designed the letters, and then

0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 3>a Canadian company, a different company, printed and addressed them

0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.200
<v Speaker 3>and then shipped them to a company in Albany, New York,

0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:43.719
<v Speaker 3>where they were mailed out in bulk, and then any

0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:46.959
<v Speaker 3>responses were sent to commercial mailboxes owned by a Hong

0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:50.839
<v Speaker 3>Kong based company called Destiny Research Center, and then those

0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 3>were gathered and sent to another company, Data Marketing Group

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.200
<v Speaker 3>on Long Island.

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Back to America. Uh huh interesting.

0:35:57.600 --> 0:36:02.280
<v Speaker 3>Long Island zaren Yes, Long Island. Yeah, In Long Island. Yes,

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 3>I want you to picture picture Long Island. It's your

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:09.320
<v Speaker 3>first day on the job at Data Marketing Group in

0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Deer Park, New York. You used to work at the

0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:13.719
<v Speaker 3>coals at the shopping center down the street, but a

0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 3>friend clued you in on this gig. You'll be working

0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:18.960
<v Speaker 3>in the mailroom, processing letters sent in from customers. That's

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:21.360
<v Speaker 3>what they told you. You're in a five story building

0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:23.600
<v Speaker 3>that houses the First National Bank of Long Island. On

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 3>the ground floor for blocks on either side of you

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:29.879
<v Speaker 3>or single level office park type places, HVAC companies, etc.

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 3>You're being walked around the offices by a guy named Franco.

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:37.360
<v Speaker 3>He wears a big bluetooth earpiece and absolutely stinks of cologne.

0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:40.640
<v Speaker 3>He's showing you the cubicles where people type lazily or

0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:42.480
<v Speaker 3>talk on the phone. You can't hear what they're saying.

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 3>You pass a room with two long tables. A bunch

0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:47.880
<v Speaker 3>of women sit along the tables, some scanning checks in

0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:51.120
<v Speaker 3>the machine, others running currency through speed counters. They all

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:53.960
<v Speaker 3>wear the same blue polo shirts and latex clubs. No

0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.719
<v Speaker 3>one looks up as you poke your heavyloone. Franco tells

0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:59.080
<v Speaker 3>you that This is the cash room. They process all

0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:01.439
<v Speaker 3>of the payments received. He tells you they run about

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.919
<v Speaker 3>five hundred thousand dollars every two weeks. You whistle, that's

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.279
<v Speaker 3>a lot of money. You ask Franco what people are

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:10.160
<v Speaker 3>buying services? He tells you. As you walk down the

0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.320
<v Speaker 3>gray carpeted hallway, its short nap showing where from years

0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:15.800
<v Speaker 3>of office workers trudging back and forth. You ask Franco

0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.879
<v Speaker 3>exactly what she'll be doing. Let's watch and you can learn,

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:20.920
<v Speaker 3>he says. He takes you to a large room with

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:23.759
<v Speaker 3>us mail bins stacked along a wall, tons of them.

0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:26.040
<v Speaker 3>A man stands at a counter that runs down the

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 3>center of the room. A tinny radio plays quietly in

0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:31.560
<v Speaker 3>the corner of the room, kerky classical music, competing with

0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Uhammad the air conditioning system. The man pulls letters from

0:37:34.960 --> 0:37:36.440
<v Speaker 3>the mail bin next to him on a cart his

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:39.680
<v Speaker 3>latex love hands expertly using a small letter opener to

0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:42.320
<v Speaker 3>slice a on the envelope. You watch as he extracts

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:44.319
<v Speaker 3>a piece of paper, a photo, and a checked He

0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 3>scans the letter and tosses it into a hole in

0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:48.920
<v Speaker 3>the counter. He glances at the photo and tosses it

0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:50.919
<v Speaker 3>into that same hole. Then he looks at the check

0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 3>and carefully places it into a tray in front of him.

0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 3>Stacks the checks filled a tray. He puts the envelope

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:59.000
<v Speaker 3>into another tray. He opens another letter, this time a

0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.759
<v Speaker 3>large Manila enflop. He pulls out sheets and sheets of

0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:04.720
<v Speaker 3>paper with feeble scrawl filling the page and slanted lines.

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.239
<v Speaker 3>He scans the text and tosses it into the hole.

0:38:07.280 --> 0:38:08.799
<v Speaker 3>Then he pulls out what looks to be a lock

0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 3>of hair ough Franco mutters. The man at the counter

0:38:12.000 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 3>looks over at you two and rolls his eyes. Then

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:18.280
<v Speaker 3>he shrugs and unceremoniously tosses the hair in the hole.

0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:20.799
<v Speaker 3>Then he reaches into the Manilla envelope and pulls out

0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:22.759
<v Speaker 3>a stack of cash, held together with a bunch of

0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.920
<v Speaker 3>old crackled rubber bands and yellows and tans and pinks.

0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:28.320
<v Speaker 3>He places the cash into a strong box next to

0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:30.680
<v Speaker 3>the check tray and puts the Manilla envelope in the

0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:33.080
<v Speaker 3>other tray. Franco turns to you and claps you on

0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:34.840
<v Speaker 3>the shoulder. He tells you he thinks you've got it

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:37.600
<v Speaker 3>figured out. That Philip there will answer any questions you

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:39.759
<v Speaker 3>may have. He tells you that your lunch break is

0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:42.799
<v Speaker 3>at eleven forty five. Then he turns and walks away

0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.080
<v Speaker 3>down the hall. Let's take a break. Yeah, I have

0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:47.040
<v Speaker 3>to split this one up.

0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:47.919
<v Speaker 2>It's a lunch break.

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:51.279
<v Speaker 3>Lunch break eleven forty five. All right, when we come back,

0:38:51.440 --> 0:39:13.359
<v Speaker 3>we'll get back on the scene. All right, Zarin, we're

0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:14.040
<v Speaker 3>in Long Island.

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:16.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm still enjoying your stunch break. Yeah, I come back

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:17.719
<v Speaker 2>for your lunch break.

0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:21.680
<v Speaker 3>Okay. So you head into the mail room with Philip,

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 3>and you stand at the counter opposite of him. The

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.799
<v Speaker 3>two of you introduce yourselves and he tells you to

0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:29.720
<v Speaker 3>wheel a mail bin over on the cart and get started.

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:31.480
<v Speaker 3>He tells you to put on some gloves from the

0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:33.080
<v Speaker 3>box on the table in the corner, and then he

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 3>tells you to start opening the mail. Pull out the

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:37.799
<v Speaker 3>letter if there is one, read through it and make

0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:40.200
<v Speaker 3>sure there's no credit card or bank information written on it.

0:39:40.239 --> 0:39:42.560
<v Speaker 3>Then toss it in the hole. Look for any pictures

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 3>or mementos or little gifts, toss those in the hole. Two.

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:48.280
<v Speaker 3>Then pull out any money, cash, check, money order, whatever,

0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:50.759
<v Speaker 3>and place it in the appropriate tray or box. He

0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:52.800
<v Speaker 3>tells you someone will come by every hour to empty

0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:54.719
<v Speaker 3>the trays. Oh, and there are cameras up in the

0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:57.080
<v Speaker 3>corners by the ceiling, so don't try any funny business.

0:39:57.440 --> 0:39:59.560
<v Speaker 3>Then you got to put the envelope and the envelope tray,

0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.239
<v Speaker 3>so you track the names and addresses. You grab your

0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 3>first envelope and get to work. You use the little

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.719
<v Speaker 3>tool to slice it open. It holds a short letter

0:40:06.760 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 3>on a note card, which you read over quickly. It's

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 3>asking someone named Maria for help. They want to know

0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 3>if their daughter will ever come home. Apparently she went

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:16.520
<v Speaker 3>missing when she was six. That was twelve years ago.

0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:19.800
<v Speaker 3>There's a photo too, a gap tooth little girl and pigtail,

0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:21.840
<v Speaker 3>smiles up at the camera, the sun in her eyes.

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:24.319
<v Speaker 3>I put these in the hole. You ask Philip yep,

0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:26.760
<v Speaker 3>he tells you. You ask him how everything gets filed

0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 3>when it's all jumbled in the bin under the hole.

0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.840
<v Speaker 3>That's the trash man, he tells you. A guy comes

0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:33.919
<v Speaker 3>by every couple of hours to empty it out, goes

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 3>out to the dumpster. Photos, swatches of clothing, locks of

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:41.160
<v Speaker 3>hair thrown away. You feel sick. You take the check

0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 3>that was in the envelope. Two hundred and fifty dollars

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:45.640
<v Speaker 3>and place it in the empty tray in front of you.

0:40:45.640 --> 0:40:47.360
<v Speaker 3>You stare at it for a bit, and then you

0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:49.480
<v Speaker 3>turn and walk out of the room. You head straight

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:51.319
<v Speaker 3>for the elevators and go out to your car and

0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:54.600
<v Speaker 3>drive home. Third one this month, Philip mutters to himself

0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 3>as he slices open another envelope of desperation.

0:40:57.480 --> 0:40:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, my heart breaks. I just want to

0:40:59.920 --> 0:41:00.960
<v Speaker 2>go fight these frenchmen.

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:01.359
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, knuckle up, Come on, Frank.

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.640
<v Speaker 3>Now that I've bummed you out the day at Data marketing,

0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:10.840
<v Speaker 3>processing payments, this is why I can't write that book.

0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:12.040
<v Speaker 3>Would you say it does that?

0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:15.200
<v Speaker 2>When you said that circular hole, I was like, that's

0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:17.600
<v Speaker 2>gonna be the circular file the screenplays go into. I

0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:18.040
<v Speaker 2>know this.

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:22.759
<v Speaker 3>So remember Maria was in name only, was saying that

0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 3>the personal items would help with the readings. Oh my god,

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:29.240
<v Speaker 3>folks at Data Marketing, just throw them away. Enter Patrice Runner.

0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:30.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, he's Runner.

0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.719
<v Speaker 3>He's the main man on this whole info just stuff

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:35.600
<v Speaker 3>in North America. Oh yeah, So he met up in

0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:38.680
<v Speaker 3>the eighties night you know, late eighties, early nineties with

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Mayo and Real and the Maria Duvalscan was up and

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:45.719
<v Speaker 3>running in Europe at that point, and he's like, I'm

0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 3>from Canada. Let's do North America.

0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Got you?

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:51.080
<v Speaker 3>So he goes out to France wants to meet Maria

0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:53.960
<v Speaker 3>and then get the rights to do North America. And

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.200
<v Speaker 3>she did a reading on him and is then girlfriend.

0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:58.000
<v Speaker 3>They're convinced she's the real deal.

0:41:58.120 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:00.799
<v Speaker 3>So he does. He's the one who starts the North

0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:03.520
<v Speaker 3>America Maria Duval direct Malee, Okay.

0:42:03.560 --> 0:42:05.120
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I got a big market of suckers.

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:07.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he's got the blessing of Mayon and Real

0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 3>of course, who were just soaking Europe at this time.

0:42:10.600 --> 0:42:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness.

0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 3>So he gives Duval a five percent royalty and I'm

0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.520
<v Speaker 3>sure he's kicking up to Mayon and Real, but Duval's

0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:20.239
<v Speaker 3>five percent royalty was several hundred thousand dollars a year.

0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 3>That's how much money. And so he you know, he

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 3>does the ads in the newspaper, and he was writing

0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:28.640
<v Speaker 3>his own copy at first, and then he started hiring copywriters.

0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:31.800
<v Speaker 3>Imagine getting that job of writing these letters.

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:34.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yes and no, Like it's one of those

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:35.880
<v Speaker 2>ones like I totally think it'll be fun, until I

0:42:35.960 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 2>realized what I was doing and then I absolutely hate it.

0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:41.759
<v Speaker 3>Like he was pulling in like for on the first day.

0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was.

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:45.160
<v Speaker 3>Pulling in for him, like twenty three million a year,

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.640
<v Speaker 3>and he lived in he had he lived in Whistler,

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:53.120
<v Speaker 3>Costa Rica, Switzerland, Paris, Ibiza, and he and his family

0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:55.360
<v Speaker 3>traveled all over because like he doesn't have to do anything,

0:42:55.400 --> 0:43:00.560
<v Speaker 3>it's on autopilot. Between twenty six and twenty fourteen, his

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 3>company sent out at least fifty six million Maria Duval letters.

0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 2>How are there that many people calling for the.

0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 3>He did like ab testing between different versions of the letter,

0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:14.200
<v Speaker 3>so he would like test him out on groups of

0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:18.200
<v Speaker 3>fifty thousand to see which had more people respond according

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:20.600
<v Speaker 3>to AARP, which you know they were like their bat

0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:21.279
<v Speaker 3>signal went off.

0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:26.560
<v Speaker 3>Federal investigators estimate the scam impacted one in three hundred Americans,

0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:29.359
<v Speaker 3>about one point four million victims, and raked in over

0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:32.880
<v Speaker 3>two hundred million dollars, with a similar proportion in Canada.

0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:33.919
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot.

0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 3>One in three hundred. US Postal inspectors. They start getting

0:43:37.400 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 3>complaints around two thousand and six. In two thousand and seven,

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.640
<v Speaker 3>the US Postal Inspectors they filed a cease and desist

0:43:44.719 --> 0:43:48.720
<v Speaker 3>order against Maria Duval, Patrese Runner, and then others, including

0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:50.560
<v Speaker 3>a company called Zodiac Zone.

0:43:50.760 --> 0:43:52.240
<v Speaker 2>That sounds like such nonsense.

0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:52.480
<v Speaker 4>I know.

0:43:52.560 --> 0:43:55.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if runners or if it's a different

0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 3>partner in the scam. It just it gets really murky,

0:43:58.480 --> 0:43:59.160
<v Speaker 3>get thrown in there.

0:43:59.320 --> 0:43:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:03.440
<v Speaker 3>A settlement was negotiated and the individuals named agreed to

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 3>cease operations. Zodiac Zone just changed its name and continued

0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:09.160
<v Speaker 3>to do business as usual.

0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Using the same male system.

0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:11.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.320
<v Speaker 3>Everything just now we're like Bodiac Bone.

0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:14.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:19.560
<v Speaker 3>And although Patre's Runner was one of the people originally sued,

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 3>his lawyers negotiated to later have his name removed from

0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.880
<v Speaker 3>the lawsuit, arguing that he'd already left the business and

0:44:25.920 --> 0:44:28.279
<v Speaker 3>had nothing to do with the scam. That is a

0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:32.800
<v Speaker 3>complete lie, totally involved. The FTC already knew about Runner

0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:35.360
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen ninety seven. They reached out to him to

0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:37.880
<v Speaker 3>verify claims in an ad that he was running for

0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.400
<v Speaker 3>Svelt Patch. Svelt Patch it was a skin patch that

0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:44.640
<v Speaker 3>was supposed to melt away body fat. What Yeah, and

0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.520
<v Speaker 3>if you can believe it, Zarin, he didn't have any

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.320
<v Speaker 3>proof that Svelt Patch would actually help people drop pounds,

0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:54.200
<v Speaker 3>what is not crazy? So his company was ordered to

0:44:54.200 --> 0:44:57.440
<v Speaker 3>pay the FTC three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars,

0:44:57.920 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 3>mainly to pay back the people who bought the pack.

0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that was go around what he had made. So

0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:04.319
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't like he made seven million and had to

0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:07.520
<v Speaker 2>pay three hundreds. I don't operating costs.

0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:09.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know what his full hall was. I'm

0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:10.239
<v Speaker 3>praying that that was.

0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Like helping this restitution.

0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.360
<v Speaker 3>A few years later, the FEDS tried again, according to

0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:17.440
<v Speaker 3>that book, a Deal with the Devil. In twenty fourteen,

0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:21.440
<v Speaker 3>USPIS Inspector Thomas Ninen was looking into a different fraud

0:45:21.719 --> 0:45:24.520
<v Speaker 3>when he saw an alarming number of withdrawal requests were

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:27.719
<v Speaker 3>being denied for payments to one business in particular with

0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:31.680
<v Speaker 3>an intriguing name, Destiny Research Center, a company registered in

0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Hong Kong. So twenty fourteen, the Department of Justice filed

0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:40.360
<v Speaker 3>a lawsuit against Duval and Patrick Gurrin, the other psychic,

0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:45.080
<v Speaker 3>and so the lawsuit temporarily prevented Data Marketing Group. That's

0:45:45.120 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 3>where you were working for a little bit.

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Of course, how could I forget.

0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:51.800
<v Speaker 3>And info just direct marketing runners company in Montreal, Montreal

0:45:51.840 --> 0:45:55.040
<v Speaker 3>from sending out letters to the US. Three Info Just

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Canada employees were named, but not Runner, who avoided being

0:45:58.680 --> 0:45:59.640
<v Speaker 3>named in the lawsuit.

0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah good lawyer.

0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 3>Runner said that he didn't know the envelopes filled with

0:46:03.480 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 3>hair and photos weren't being sent to Duval in France.

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:09.600
<v Speaker 3>I know harro photos, but that's one hundred percent falls

0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:10.120
<v Speaker 3>he set.

0:46:09.960 --> 0:46:12.200
<v Speaker 2>The whole thing up, is his organization. Yeah.

0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Twenty sixteen, the lawsuits settled. None of the eight defendants,

0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:18.960
<v Speaker 3>including Duval and Garren, admitted guilt, but they were all

0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:20.960
<v Speaker 3>barred from sending letters in the United States.

0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:23.239
<v Speaker 2>And none of this was any letters, I guess because

0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:24.360
<v Speaker 2>they're not promising anything.

0:46:25.600 --> 0:46:28.239
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, but there's like hank money involved, I

0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:31.359
<v Speaker 3>don't know. Twenty eighteen, the US Postal Inspector and other

0:46:31.840 --> 0:46:35.320
<v Speaker 3>US government officials came to Maria's house in southern France,

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:39.279
<v Speaker 3>like that's a junket. But at this point she had

0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:40.719
<v Speaker 3>like really advanced and.

0:46:40.760 --> 0:46:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Mess Yeah, she's like out of it entire I mean

0:46:43.120 --> 0:46:44.279
<v Speaker 2>she's aged.

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:46.839
<v Speaker 3>So they didn't learn much, but they got a trip

0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:48.879
<v Speaker 3>to the South France courtesy of Uncle Sam.

0:46:48.960 --> 0:46:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I like to see postal carriers out there.

0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Exactly. However, you know they're facing potential criminal charges. Some

0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:01.000
<v Speaker 3>Infojest employees helped the US government in charges against Runner,

0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:05.880
<v Speaker 3>maybe Philip in the mail room Runner was charged. Runner

0:47:05.960 --> 0:47:09.560
<v Speaker 3>was charged in absentia in twenty eighteen. In twenty twenty,

0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:13.080
<v Speaker 3>he was located living in a tent on the beach

0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:13.840
<v Speaker 3>in Ibatza.

0:47:14.040 --> 0:47:14.120
<v Speaker 4>What.

0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, his wife had left him and kicked him out.

0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:19.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, and he had no money. This is

0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:25.759
<v Speaker 3>beautifully living. He was arrested and extradited back to the

0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:26.600
<v Speaker 3>US in the fall.

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Of twenty So he wasn't doing like an ayahuasca cleanse.

0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:34.319
<v Speaker 2>He was just beat town broke. He was with bad

0:47:34.400 --> 0:47:35.960
<v Speaker 2>facial hair, hanging out in the tent.

0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:39.440
<v Speaker 3>In June of twenty twenty three, he was found guilty

0:47:39.520 --> 0:47:42.799
<v Speaker 3>of fourteen counts of mail and wire fraud. There it is.

0:47:44.120 --> 0:47:46.479
<v Speaker 3>He faces up to twenty years in prison per count.

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:47.920
<v Speaker 3>But he's still a waiting sentencing.

0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:48.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he going to get it.

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:51.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. He has maintained that while what he did may

0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 3>not have been moral, it wasn't fraud.

0:47:53.880 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. That's a terrible I know.

0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:59.280
<v Speaker 3>And that magazine The Walrus, they said. In his trial,

0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 3>his lawyers argued that quote, psychic services are inherently misleading

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:05.280
<v Speaker 3>and therefore could not be fraud.

0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:08.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, that's actually a very interesting argument. Look,

0:48:08.960 --> 0:48:11.960
<v Speaker 2>everybody knows, they knows, so if you fall for it,

0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, come on, but you know.

0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:16.400
<v Speaker 3>And a bit of good news because the uspis settled

0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:19.279
<v Speaker 3>with the data broker for one hundred and twenty seven

0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:22.239
<v Speaker 3>point five million what they were able to pay back

0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:23.760
<v Speaker 3>many of Maria's victims.

0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's the least good. Yeah, there's something there, like

0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:31.600
<v Speaker 2>they get some sense of justice Financially, I'm still hung

0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:36.480
<v Speaker 2>up on the throwing out the pictures and the little

0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.760
<v Speaker 2>bits of talismanic juice that these people are sending over there.

0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:40.640
<v Speaker 3>The little bits of hope.

0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I just I hope that the Postal Service is

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:48.799
<v Speaker 2>able to actually get them all on these charges. And

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm not somebody who's like, yeah, throw them away and

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 2>lock them up, throw away the key and all that. No. No,

0:48:52.960 --> 0:48:56.759
<v Speaker 2>but seriously, for these guys, well, I think under the prison, I.

0:48:56.760 --> 0:49:00.440
<v Speaker 3>Don't know where real is. Myom has passed away, but anyway,

0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:03.040
<v Speaker 3>they're horrible, and I hope all bad things happen here.

0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.120
<v Speaker 2>We take some money from his I'm not going to

0:49:06.160 --> 0:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>come out to his family.

0:49:08.120 --> 0:49:20.439
<v Speaker 3>Captain d give me a talk back. God, I went cheat.

0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:29.839
<v Speaker 4>Hey, Elizabeth hay Saren, longtime listener, first time color so

0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:33.040
<v Speaker 4>I just want to say thank you for bringing me

0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:38.520
<v Speaker 4>laughs near like every week. I started listening to these

0:49:38.560 --> 0:49:41.919
<v Speaker 4>by myself, but when you got got to the Cocaine Bear,

0:49:42.200 --> 0:49:44.440
<v Speaker 4>I just had to share it with my dad. So

0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:49.840
<v Speaker 4>thanks to bringing us both laughter. Have a good day. Bye,

0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:57.359
<v Speaker 4>hey again. Also, I would so buy a Sandalwood University

0:49:57.440 --> 0:49:59.719
<v Speaker 4>T shirt, just saying please.

0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:01.279
<v Speaker 1>Do those right.

0:50:02.200 --> 0:50:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the dreamcatch.

0:50:04.760 --> 0:50:07.400
<v Speaker 3>I like how Cocaine Bear brings families together.

0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Really beautiful, so beautiful. Thank you so much.

0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:17.120
<v Speaker 3>Good job for bringing that into this world. That's all

0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.680
<v Speaker 3>I have for today. You can find us online at

0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.560
<v Speaker 3>ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also on the internet. Email

0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:26.480
<v Speaker 3>us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, and please

0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.080
<v Speaker 3>leave a talk back on the iHeart app. We love

0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:38.480
<v Speaker 3>those reach out reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:41.680
<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Dutton and Sarah Burnett, produced and edited by cash

0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:46.080
<v Speaker 3>Room supervisor Dave Cousten. Research is by Madame Marissa Brown,

0:50:46.239 --> 0:50:50.239
<v Speaker 3>Psychic to the Stars and Zodiac enthusiast, and by that

0:50:50.320 --> 0:50:53.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean the rafts Andrea song Sharpen Tear. The theme

0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:56.920
<v Speaker 3>song is by mail order. Empresarios Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton.

0:50:57.120 --> 0:51:00.520
<v Speaker 3>Post wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair

0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:04.640
<v Speaker 3>and makeup provided by Sparkleshot and Mister Andre. Executive producers

0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:08.600
<v Speaker 3>are Missing Hiker, Ben Bollen and Crystal Ballwaxer Nol Brown.

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Ridicous Crime Say It One More Timequeous cry Ridiculous Crime

0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:24.400
<v Speaker 1>is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts. My heart Radio,

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<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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