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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, career, what's up?

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Speaker 3: Listen? You know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh okay. You know the expression w w

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Speaker 2: obd wwobd. What would Olivia Benson do? Right? Yes, So

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Speaker 2: your girl Olivia Benson aka Mariska hargatea.

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Speaker 3: On lawn order s su for those which.

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Speaker 2: Isn't mean yes. So she was in the in the

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Speaker 2: park in New York, in a park in New York,

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Speaker 2: not Central Park, just in a park, and she was

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Speaker 2: shooting part of the twenty fifth season, the historic twenty

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Speaker 2: fifth season. Yeah, and this little girl approached her and

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Speaker 2: asked her for help because she recognized that she was

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Speaker 2: a cop, and so she literally helped a citizen as

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Speaker 2: Olivia Benson. And since she was able to help her

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Speaker 2: find her mother, see, they were in like I guess

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Speaker 2: Fort Tryon Park trying anyway, So the girl goes over

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Speaker 2: and she has to, like like Bariska Hartday, has to

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Speaker 2: halt production and then takes about twenty minutes. But they

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Speaker 2: helped the child locate her mother, and so she does

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Speaker 2: like full Olivia Benson and there's like photos of them

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Speaker 2: like getting together. It's like, oh see, my god. Oh

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Speaker 2: yeah right, and you're just like, is this real? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there you go, and.

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Speaker 3: Uh I am silent screaming in especially heinous right now.

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Speaker 2: So there you go.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was a little ridiculous when reality becomes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well she's she's a very well known for you, captain.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but totally. But it's also like, you know,

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Speaker 2: she's a what nine time Woman of the Year award winner.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know I have I have those reading glasses

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Speaker 3: that we call the Olivia Benson.

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Speaker 2: Yes, your cheaters, you're Olivia Benson.

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Speaker 3: It's a god bless her.

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Speaker 2: What's ridiculous for you, Elizabeth?

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Speaker 3: Another thing that's ridiculous using your psychic powers for greed

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Speaker 3: when you could use them for silliness, Like I was.

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Speaker 3: This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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Speaker 3: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free in

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Saren. Yes, Oh sorry me.

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Speaker 3: I thought you were going to give me a like

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Speaker 3: ooh buddy or whatever You're going to say, Oh, well,

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Speaker 3: you know I have you damn right.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd like to surprise you. So you're like,

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Speaker 2: I thought you were going to come in hot. No, Okay,

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Speaker 2: well you damn right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there it is. You know. I've written a couple

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Speaker 3: of books, yes, and I got them published. Yes, and

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Speaker 3: I am slash was working on a new one and

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Speaker 3: I stepped away from it for a few reasons.

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Speaker 2: Yes, why did you?

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Speaker 3: I'm totally disillusioned by the publishing industry.

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Speaker 2: That's it's a crock.

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Speaker 3: I let my agent go a while back, and I

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Speaker 3: don't feel like hustling another one. Yeah, and I feel

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Speaker 3: like there's just not a place for me. And publishing

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Speaker 3: is just so dysfunctional.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty wild right now. I hear a lot of

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Speaker 2: the sad stories.

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Speaker 3: I have enough dysfunctional mess I don't need more.

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Speaker 2: You don't need that ADJECTI.

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Speaker 3: Another reason I stepped away is because the book is

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Speaker 3: kind of heavy, just physically physically heavy psych I always

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Speaker 3: ask people starting creative projects if it's something they want

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Speaker 3: to live in for however long it'll take.

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Speaker 2: You've asked me that. Yeah, I appreciate, it's never answered

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Speaker 2: the question. I consider.

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Speaker 3: I think that this one was kind of messing with me,

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 2: You didn't ask yourself.

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Speaker 3: No, I didn't you know? And so I love the idea,

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Speaker 3: but with the world the way it is and where

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Speaker 3: I am in my life, I just want to have

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Speaker 3: fun and laughs.

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Speaker 2: Sarin, I get it. I told get it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I get to do here. So

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Speaker 3: you have fun, laugh, dance. You cut the tether on

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Speaker 3: that way and said, let's totally float baby. So you're

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Speaker 3: probably thinking cool story, bro or man, this is a Wendy's.

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Speaker 2: I have a point. I was actually thinking cool Wendy's, ma'am.

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Speaker 3: And I was reading up on this lady. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to tell you about there are tons of parallels to

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Speaker 3: a character in my book. It's uncanny, Like you've read

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Speaker 3: parts of the book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, written chapters, and you'll.

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Speaker 3: See you'll see where this all comes together. And like

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Speaker 3: the whole thing was kind of freaking me out as

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Speaker 3: I'm reading it, and I'm not sure, Like I looked

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Speaker 3: up and I am sure that I've never heard of

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Speaker 3: her before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, process of just the news.

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Speaker 3: No, And there are strong elements that tie her story

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Speaker 3: to part of my book. And I'm wondering is that

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Speaker 3: a sign? And does this mean I should try finishing

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Speaker 3: the thing. Does it mean that I'm psychic.

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Speaker 2: I think so, because the lady I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To tell you about, Maria Duval, is a psychic.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Is this some sort of cosmic connection.

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Speaker 2: We're going to say, a finger reaching out of the ether, Yes, to.

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Speaker 3: Tickle me ether. So Maria Duval she was born Maria

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Speaker 3: Carolina Gamba in nineteen thirty seven in Milan, in Italy.

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Speaker 2: That's a place to be born. Yeah, Milan.

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Speaker 3: Have ever been. Yeah, it's very Germany.

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Speaker 2: Very It feels very much like a financial town, all

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Speaker 2: the stuff that you think of. Yeah, it's all about

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Speaker 2: you know. Anyway, I'd like it a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Maria. She got married a bunch of times, and

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Speaker 3: so Duval was the name of her second husband. She

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Speaker 3: kind of stuck with that one. So she moved to

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Speaker 3: France with her family when she was young and according

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Speaker 3: to her, special powers run in her family of course,

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Speaker 3: and ever since she was a little girl, she's had

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Speaker 3: clairvoyant visions and she didn't think that was special. She thought, well,

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Speaker 3: that's what we all have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the same thing.

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Speaker 3: This is what she said on her website quote, in

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Speaker 3: my family, we have possessed spiritual gifts for generations. The

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Speaker 3: Golden flex that you see in my eyes form quote

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Speaker 3: the sign in the Middle Ages, I would have been

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Speaker 3: burnt at the stake.

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Speaker 2: Really, I've never heard golden flex was a sign of

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Speaker 2: a witch before. I Maybe I just don't get around

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Speaker 2: in the right well.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe it's a French Italian thing.

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Speaker 2: That's a lot of things I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, same more so for me. According to

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Speaker 3: oh No, So anyway, her uncle, yes, father Camillo Vasally,

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Speaker 3: He was a priest in Ravenna, small city in northern Italy,

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Speaker 3: and so according to her Maria, he performed miracles and

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Speaker 3: the town considered him a saint, a little lesser, lesser

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Speaker 3: known saint. Yeah. And when he was on his deathbed

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Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty three, he called Maria to.

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Speaker 2: Him and it was there a distance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like, you know, we're like people, what we beat? Maria,

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Speaker 3: Come here, I'm dying. And so Maria goes like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what's up? And he transfers the gift to her. That

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Speaker 3: was what it sounded like. Oh completely, So he told her,

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Speaker 3: I know you have the power already because of your eyes,

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Speaker 3: your eyeball gol. Yeah, and so I'm going to give

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Speaker 3: you my powers on top of double down, and you

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Speaker 3: have to use these powers for good, to help and

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Speaker 3: comfort others.

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Speaker 2: You're super powered up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Then he was like, here have this talisman.

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Speaker 2: Like fireball Mario.

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Speaker 3: Now, when I was young and reading books and anytime

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Speaker 3: they'd like present someone with a talisman, I thought that

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Speaker 3: was the coolest thing ever.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, completely was like, I want a tal man.

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Speaker 2: I've waited my whole life for someone like this talisman.

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Speaker 2: It is very important.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to use it on some sort of quest anyway.

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Speaker 3: Her talisman was a gold pendulum on a chain, and

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Speaker 3: she would later use it to do stuff like find people.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so like divining past.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she didn't become a professional psychic right away.

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Speaker 2: She wore a hypnotist with the pendula. Yeah, like he

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Speaker 2: was looking into my eyes.

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Speaker 3: For a while, So she's not a psychic off the bat.

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Speaker 3: She worked as a scout at a couple of art

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Speaker 3: galleries in Paris.

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Speaker 2: Was an art scout.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, like a cub scout, but an art scout.

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Speaker 2: She wore the outfit shelpist.

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Speaker 3: She would gather badges, she looks for lost artists. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: she'd help artists find new stronger names. More in line

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Speaker 3: with the Kabbalah that would bring them a better chance

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Speaker 3: at success. Okay, I don't know what that means. She

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Speaker 3: worked at a large bank, Like your.

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Speaker 2: Name is Pablo Fancy and how about Picasso.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, So she's worked. She worked at a bank, not

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Speaker 3: as a teller, but she helped narrow down candidates for

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Speaker 3: executive positions using quote, graphological, morphological, and astrological texts.

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Speaker 2: So she looks at their handwriting, looks at their face,

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Speaker 2: and then she looks.

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Speaker 3: At the resumes, and she's like good bad good good bad,

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Speaker 3: like puts them into piles. She also said that she

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Speaker 3: worked with many other heads of industry, helping them set

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Speaker 3: up their companies. And she said that she can't make

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Speaker 3: problems disappear, but she can identify them and like point

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Speaker 3: people that you know what's wrong.

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Speaker 2: Your foot's broken, exactly, Doc.

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Speaker 3: That's in the corporate world. It's a huge problem, broken foot.

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Speaker 3: So she'd also help businesses set dates to make important

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Speaker 3: decisions or like for movies to premiere. So this is

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Speaker 3: like we're getting in Nancy Reagan territory.

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Speaker 2: They're like, give me a special date.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: At history different figure out why the thing had happened on.

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Speaker 3: Is how she explains right or the times of such.

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Speaker 3: She said, people are really surprised when you have to

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Speaker 3: time a film release to coincide with the full moon,

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Speaker 3: because when there's a full moon, people are much more

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Speaker 3: likely to go out than during other lunar phases.

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Speaker 2: Of course, they can see more at night, especure heart attacks. Whatever.

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Speaker 3: She wasn't just doing this. She had another job as

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Speaker 3: a She owned a pool and sauna cleaning business. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's adjacent.

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Speaker 2: She's not actually cleaning the sauna's issue.

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Speaker 3: I think she probably hired.

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Speaker 2: She had like a bunch of like boys and like

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Speaker 2: cut off shorts clean but still she's like.

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Speaker 3: We will only clean under you know, mercury.

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Speaker 2: But she gets a call, she's like, oh, I gotta

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Speaker 2: go divine the mood.

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Speaker 3: She owned clothing stores in the south of France, in

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Speaker 3: and around the town of Callous, and she like Maria Callis. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it was at one of the stores that she started

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Speaker 3: giving psychic readings, where she's like, Okay, I'm not just

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Speaker 3: going to manipulate industry.

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Speaker 2: I'm a personal person.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to manipulate people. And she started getting attention

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Speaker 3: just locally at first, for seven years she worked at

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Speaker 3: three different radio stations doing astrological charts for listeners. Yes,

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Speaker 3: she's like, call her here on the air.

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Speaker 2: I always going to be a ventriloquist on the radio.

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Speaker 2: That was the whole thing. There were a lot of

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Speaker 2: ventriloquists on the radio, like how great is that?

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Speaker 3: It's just like two people exactly, but it's.

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Speaker 2: Like the whole thing and you're now matching someone having

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Speaker 2: the puppet.

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Speaker 3: There astrologery like the magic of radio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but then astrologers like the same thing. They're like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they're just sitting there and like their pajamas,

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Speaker 2: but they're actually like before the crystal ball. Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: don't have to do it, don't have to pay for

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Speaker 2: smoke bombs.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: And so she also she had a segment on French

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Speaker 3: TV called Bibi Bonu where she'd give horoscopes to babies

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Speaker 3: on their first birthdays.

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Speaker 2: She's about to say it, Wait a minute.

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Speaker 3: She's a little bit of this, a little bit of this.

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Speaker 3: By the seventies, she was showing up in the paper

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Speaker 3: and nice for her psychic work.

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Speaker 2: She was she was in French vogue.

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Speaker 3: OK. So she said at first she didn't want to

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Speaker 3: change people. She just wanted to help people. But eventually

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Speaker 3: she became a professional. So she studied for ten years

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Speaker 3: at an esoteric school and she ten years, yeah, ten years,

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Speaker 3: and she joined quoting various movements, including Druidic movements.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: That didn't work out because she don't like the robes. No,

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Speaker 3: she was like, I'm Italian and so I'm more inclined

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Speaker 3: towards Greco Latin modalities. Oh of course, She's like, it's

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Speaker 3: too white for me.

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Speaker 2: And so much walking in a circle got a chanting.

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Speaker 2: I like, more like laying about in smoke exactly, more

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Speaker 2: fruit involved in my ceremonies.

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Speaker 3: So she said. She later established the French Institute for

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Speaker 3: Parapsychological Research to foster that, and she was also the president,

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Speaker 3: also a member, also a member, and it was sometimes

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Speaker 3: called the Callous Parapsychology Institute. Okay, there's this book called

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Speaker 3: A Deal with the Devil about Maria Tufall, and it

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Speaker 3: came out in twenty eighteen and in it, authors Blake

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Speaker 3: Ellis and Melanie Hicken, they write, quote, she claims that

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Speaker 3: she has provided guidance to Hollywood stars who pay seven

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars for a session, and several American presidents and

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Speaker 3: many other political leaders. In fact, she says many of

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Speaker 3: the world's richest and most famous celebrities never make a

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Speaker 3: decision without consulting her first, and that she is the

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Speaker 3: only psychic ever to have been granted an audience with

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Speaker 3: the Pope.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know, like if you're on social media right, like,

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Speaker 2: and you follow some of the people I follow, you're

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Speaker 2: going to get things of like yo, I got like, okay,

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Speaker 2: my people are sitting now they're going they're doing a

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Speaker 2: humiliation ritual on this side the celebrity. Right, It'll be like,

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Speaker 2: you know, some young black celebrity has to be humiliated,

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Speaker 2: so now they can join the illuminati. Oh right, I've

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Speaker 2: seen claims and I'm like, come on, now, you really

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Speaker 2: come on people. But at the same time, then you

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Speaker 2: go on this side. When we were investigating, it's always

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Speaker 2: like the President came to me, I met with the Pope,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, So a lot of people believe

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Speaker 2: in these occult things, so like, oh yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that some of these people when they come out there

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Speaker 2: with the it's a humiliation ritual and see where they're trying.

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Speaker 2: I'm like some of them have to be right, and

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Speaker 2: just the numbers exactly. I'm not saying which ones, but

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Speaker 2: because of how much we're hearing from the other end

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Speaker 2: of the well, presidents came here and decided when should

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Speaker 2: I start the war?

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, So a humiliation ritual for a.

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Speaker 2: Young to join the illuminati or whatever. I'm not necessarily backing,

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Speaker 2: but one.

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Speaker 3: With the pope. CNN did an investigation into her with

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Speaker 3: these authors, and they later revealed that, according to a friend,

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Speaker 3: Maria had technically met with the Pope and shook his hand,

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Speaker 3: but she was like part of a crowd. Oh so,

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Speaker 3: and there was not like a personal audience.

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Speaker 2: Ah yeah, so met the pope. I read the same

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Speaker 2: as the Pope.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. She shook his hand, she reached out over

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Speaker 3: a bunch of other people high five during So about

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Speaker 3: that talisman and the missing person and.

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Speaker 2: The missing you were wondering, I just checked my notes.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for asking.

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Speaker 2: You haven't circled back.

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00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 3: I'm about to circle back.

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Speaker 2: Put a pin in it.

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of variations on this story, but

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Speaker 3: here suggest around nineteen seventy seven, the wife of a

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Speaker 3: young dentist disappeared. It is not important to know that

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Speaker 3: he was a dentist. Yeah, but this is this is

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Speaker 3: in the south of France. She took off her car

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Speaker 3: on like a Tuesday afternoon and no one had seen

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00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 3: her after that, and then hikers found her car the

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00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 3: next morning abandoned. She was nowhere to be found. And

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Speaker 3: this is pre cell phone, mind you, so they couldn't

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Speaker 3: try and call or like look for her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The authorities sent out search parties, two helicopters, the fire

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Speaker 3: brigade end quote the best police dog in the region,

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Speaker 3: called Droll four. Researcher Marissa pointed out that no information

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Speaker 3: is available about the presumed police dogs Droll one, two

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Speaker 3: and three where they also amazing was one a bad apple?

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Speaker 3: Where was there a mister or missus droll? Keep in

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Speaker 3: mind that in French droll means funny. It can also

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Speaker 3: mean odd in some idioms, so like is it's a

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Speaker 3: funny old word or present I had I have an

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Speaker 3: odd premonition and I'm probably not saying those right, and

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Speaker 3: that's maybe a little I'm understanding them. You've got it

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Speaker 3: because I translated the language work. It's the language of ridiculousness.

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Speaker 3: So who was droll for a weird little When you

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Speaker 3: Google image search droll for dog, you get lots of

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Speaker 3: weird AI cat pictures and then they're like leggings with

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Speaker 3: cats printed in the eyes are on the crotch. I

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Speaker 3: don't know, just do it image search for ivy for

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00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 3: dog and then you get all this weird Anyway, Maria

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00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 3: she saw the story about the missing woman in the

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00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,680
Speaker 3: paper and she offered to help. And she asked for

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00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 3: the woman's date of birth, a recent photo, and a

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00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 3: map of the area. And she put the photo on

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00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 3: the map and then held the gold pendulum over the map,

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00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 3: and the pendulum it starts to swing as they do,

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00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 3: and it starts to spin over a certain region, and

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Speaker 3: the cops they're skeptical, this kind of seems like a

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Speaker 3: waste of time and hokum at that. So they called

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Speaker 3: back the rescue helicopter. They're like, you know what, we

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Speaker 3: give up.

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Speaker 2: It's a pendulum that's sending you out there.

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Speaker 3: And they're like, maybe she disappeared on purpose and taken

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Speaker 3: herself out of the game, so to speak. So the husband, though,

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Speaker 3: is like, no more helicopter, helicopter, and so he hires

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Speaker 3: a private helicopter and says search over where the pendulum

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00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 3: was spinning, and so he believed in her. He knew

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Speaker 3: his wife was still out there waiting to be found.

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Speaker 2: And she was what.

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00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 3: She was, hurt and unconscious. She hadn't eaten or had

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00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 3: anything to drink or even move for three days and

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00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 3: nights and she was discovered and Marie, I said, the

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00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 3: pendulum worked because quote, everything in the universe vibrates and

357
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 3: sends out different waves. To find something or someone that

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00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,879
Speaker 3: has gone missing, the vibrations which hold a connection with

359
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 3: the subject or the person must be investigated and determined.

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00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 3: That is what I did with the help of the

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00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 3: star sign and the photo of the woman. Then I

362
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 3: simply gave the information to my hanging lamp and asked

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00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 3: for the source of these vibrations to be pointed out

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00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 3: on the map.

365
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 2: You know, it's easy to the CIA. I have it.

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00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 2: They have a whole program that is taken from the

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00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 2: one guy's other program. He's like around to hear anyway,

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00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 2: the CIA, they have a whole thing. I've been reading

369
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 2: a bunch about how to psychically trained according to the CIA,

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00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 2: and is all this exact same stuff. Let's do it.

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00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 3: Let's start us. Let's do a seminar.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'm down.

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Speaker 3: So we'll host a seminar and we don't know how

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00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 3: to do it. Oh we're gonna host you yeah, yea, yeah,

375
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,359
Speaker 3: we're okay. No, no, no, We're going to put on so

376
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,479
Speaker 3: much easier. I know it'll be a ridiculous grind. So

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00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,479
Speaker 3: the story of this incredible vibration went viral by seventy

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00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 3: standards all over France. People heard about it and they

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00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 3: felt that Maria was the real deal, like a psychic hero.

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00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,679
Speaker 3: It said that in total she helped find nineteen people

381
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 3: over the years. Yeah, and plus some cats and a donkey,

382
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 3: the missing donkey. Oh and she said she found Brigitte

383
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 3: Bardeau's missing dog. Okay, And the only problem is that

384
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 3: Bardew later told CNN that her dog was found dead

385
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 3: drowned in a pool and that Duval had nothing to

386
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 3: do with any of it, which is a bummer detail.

387
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 2: Wait, so she lied about finding Bridget Bardew's dog. When

388
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 2: someone went to question that, Bridget Bardow is like, well,

389
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 2: if I got a story for you, Oh yeah, no,

390
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:32,880
Speaker 2: she had nothing.

391
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 3: But this is horrible and I'm an animal lover and

392
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 3: somehow I let my dog drown Wow. So Maria said

393
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 3: that she was involved in quote, one of the biggest

394
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 3: criminal cases the world has ever known. Let's take a break.

395
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 3: When we come back, I'll tell you about the biggest

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Speaker 3: criminal case the world has ever known.

397
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 2: Zaren yo. Hey, so we were talking about Maria Duval.

398
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 2: I was thinking about bridge Bordo's dog.

399
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 3: But there's that too. Let's give a moment of yeah. Okay,

400
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 3: we gave him over the rainbow. Yeah, the rambow bridge.

401
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 3: All right, So Maria Duval she said that she was

402
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 3: involved in one of the biggest criminal cases the world

403
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 3: has ever known. Yes, that's the Raoul Vallenberg case.

404
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, Raoul Wallenberg. Uh huh okay Vallenburg sure, yes,

405
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm saying it wrong.

406
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 3: Swedish architect, Yes, and a diplomat who saved thousands of

407
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 3: Jews in German occupied Hungary during the Holocaust.

408
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 2: How is she involved, Well, let's give me.

409
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 3: Let me tell you a little bit more about him.

410
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 3: He was Sweden's Special envoy in Budapest between July and

411
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 3: December of nineteen forty four, and in that time he

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00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 3: issued protective passports sheltered Jews and buildings, which he declared

413
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 3: Swedish territory. So January seventeenth, nineteen forty five, during the

414
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 3: siege of Budapest by the Red arm Me agents captured

415
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 3: Vollenberg and accused him of espionage, and then he disappeared.

416
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 3: Nineteen fifty seven, twelve years after he went missing, Soviet

417
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 3: authorities said he died of a heart attack two years

418
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 3: after he had been last seen, and that he'd been

419
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 3: locked up in Lubyanka, the secret police's prison in Moscow.

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00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: He died of weak art.

421
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's so sad. The family didn't believe this.

422
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 2: Yes, no, really, and there.

423
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 3: Had been reports and whisperings that Vallenberg had been seen

424
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 3: in Soviet prisons and mental institutions in subsequent years. So

425
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 3: they reached out to Maria and they asked if he

426
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 3: was still in the Russian prison or maybe had he escaped.

427
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: She was like, let me think on it. She gets

428
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: the pendulum. She's like, he had a heart attack, he died.

429
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 3: When they said he did, she said that he had

430
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 3: it because he'd been tortured. So she adds in a

431
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 3: little bit of extra juice. Sorry, And during her consultations

432
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 3: for this and others, she generally used tarot cards.

433
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: She does, like remote viewing via tarot card I.

434
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 3: Think, so, yeah, there's a lot of stuff she doesn't like.

435
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 3: Other things she'd do, she'd ask people to hit a

436
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 3: bell three times, you know, shuttles and then splash inc

437
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: thirteen times, of course, and then she'd interpret the answers

438
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 3: out of that, and so like, if she was having

439
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 3: a really hard time with a vision, she'd use a

440
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 3: crystal ball, And apparently those are really hard work and

441
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 3: they take a lot of concentration, so she wasn't into that.

442
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 3: So you know, she's established herself. She had this personal secretary,

443
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 3: Francois bar and Francoise later became the mayor of the

444
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 3: small French town that Maria lived in, Callous, and she

445
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 3: vouched for Maria's abilities. She said she'd seen it all

446
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 3: in action. She said that there was a motorcyclist who'd

447
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: been in an accident and couldn't walk very well, and

448
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: that Maria apparently used her power of radiothesia, which is

449
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: sensitiveness held to enable a person with the aid of

450
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: a divining rod or pendulum to detect things. You know

451
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 3: who said that Webster's Dictionary, oh defines radiothesia, so basically

452
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 3: divining rods. So she used that on the motorcycle boy.

453
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 2: Feeling through the form of radiant.

454
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she's just like she's holding like two sticks.

455
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: She spent an hour with the guy just swinging the

456
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: old pendulum over him. When she was done, he walked

457
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 3: away normally amazing, incredible, that a miracle, some would Barr

458
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 3: also said there was another woman who would always call

459
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 3: Maria asking for good lotto numbers, and that woman was

460
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: not me. Uh So Maria would tell her to be

461
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 3: careful with her money and take out a low interest

462
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 3: loan to pay off her debt, which is more debt

463
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 3: to pay off debt. But okay, sure that doesn't make

464
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: sense to be anyway. I guess consolidate her debt is

465
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 3: what she's saying.

466
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: I'm the one to talk about.

467
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 3: Woman didn't want to hear all that. Yeah, and she

468
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 3: wanted the lotto numbers. She's like, that's great and all.

469
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: But what of the lives? What's the winning numbers?

470
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: And she she kept calling and Maria just started ignoring her.

471
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 3: Keep calling me alone, Becky. And so she said people

472
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: who wanted an instant fixed were just a waste of

473
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 3: her time.

474
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 2: She wanted nothing to do with them.

475
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 3: People asked her to predict their deaths, and that was

476
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 3: apparently something she could do. Yeah, but no, you thought

477
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 3: about it, No do you?

478
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: I don't. It turns on the day you ask me.

479
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to know.

480
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 2: Because I don't mind knowing something. But some days I'd

481
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I don't want to know. Other days

482
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, definitely, I may relieve the pressure.

483
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 3: I feel like. It's also for the like I don't

484
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 3: want like a ring camera at my front door.

485
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little different.

486
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: Okay, because like around here, if someone brings into your house,

487
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 3: you can give the cops the footage. It doesn't do anything.

488
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean anything. But if a psychic tells you

489
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily.

490
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: But it's also like, but if I saw someone prowling

491
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: around my yard but nothing happened, I don't want to know.

492
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 3: I rather live in bliss.

493
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: You like that the bliss. I'm full of bliss there.

494
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: So she would never she would never do that tell

495
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 3: people she knew, Yeah, she would, she would never tell

496
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 3: anyone the answer. She did do a couple exorcisms, but

497
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 3: only a few of them because, like she said, they

498
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: were super super difficult, and it was a very special thing.

499
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: You also have to worry about that the imagine taking

500
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: on some dark alga.

501
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: She said. One of them left burn marks on her knees,

502
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 3: but there was no fire.

503
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: Just from the friction of like praying so hard, Saren.

504
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: It was really spooky. Neighbors, Oh, was that what you

505
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 3: were doing?

506
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: Maria? So uh, I'm not going to say.

507
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: Sometime in the mid eighties she sold her name. But

508
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: what you mean, It's like around nineteen eighty five a

509
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: trademark for the commercial use of the name Maria Duval

510
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 3: was issued in France.

511
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: She passed it on like Gallagher.

512
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like Menudo. It's unclear or unknown if

513
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: Maria took this out herself or if it was because

514
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: of her early dealings with the businessmen who would later

515
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: run her empire. And later there were other similar trademarks

516
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: taken out all over the world. So who are those businessmen?

517
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: Who are those businessmen?

518
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: Thank you for asking? Jacques Mail and Jean Claude Reel

519
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: for real, And so they reached out to her about

520
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: using her name for a mailing campaign for their business.

521
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: And you know, she's super well known as a psychic

522
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 3: in France, Yeah, market her powers, and according to her

523
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: son Antoine, she was dazzled by these guys and the offer,

524
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: and she didn't really read the contract. She was like, perfect,

525
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: I'll do it. And she said, you know, for the

526
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: first decade that we worked together, things were fine.

527
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: That's good in business, ten years.

528
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: Ten years, but greed always rears its ugly head, and

529
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 3: that's when things got bad. At first, the business only

530
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 3: sold astrology charts, but later their business model changed to letters,

531
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 3: and so the contract was structured in a way that

532
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 3: she couldn't get out of it. So she's really the

533
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: con men's first victim. As part of her contract, she

534
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 3: had to do press and touring, and this was so

535
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: people could see that she was a real person, and

536
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: it took her all over Europe and beyond and beyond.

537
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 3: In two thousand and eight, she spoke in Moscow at

538
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: the Central House of Journalists where she forecasted the future

539
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 3: of Russia. And apparently as part of this, seven hundred

540
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: thousand apple trees were planted near Moscow and all named

541
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: Maria duval I. Have no idea why or what.

542
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: That means, what it, what does.

543
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 3: It have to do with it? That's a lot of trees.

544
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 3: That's a lot of apple apples.

545
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

546
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: So anyway, Maria Duvall letters, as you can probably guess,

547
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 3: they evolved into a scam.

548
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guessing.

549
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 3: The letter scam is considered one of the world's longest

550
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: running cons. Her letter scam in particular is considered one

551
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: of the longest running cons in the whole wide world.

552
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 3: It's taken place all over this this beautiful globe, including US, Canada, Denmark,

553
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: and Russia, Norway, New Zealand, Finland, Japan, Australia. I could

554
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: go on.

555
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: Worldwide sattle down.

556
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: In the beginning, they started with like newspaper ads and

557
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: they wouldn't mention Maria Duvall. Well, they were supposed to

558
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 3: be research studies and they would ask readers to send

559
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 3: in personal details like their zodiac sign, the time of

560
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: their birth, their marital status, in exchange to win a

561
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: lot of money. And you remember how it feels like,

562
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: you know, in the eighties, there would always be those

563
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: mailers to your house with like fill out this consumer question.

564
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 3: So they didn't even bother sending them. They just put

565
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: it as an ad in the paper, tell us about you,

566
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: and people like okay, sure, and so the conment took

567
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: this information and they used it to create profiles, and

568
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: then they crossed referenced it with information purchased from data

569
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 3: brokers and two other kinds of lists. They had a

570
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: look alike list, which a list of new names and

571
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 3: addresses of people who look in demographics wise like the

572
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: current customer base.

573
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: And it's similar to what you're talking about.

574
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, doppelganger list.

575
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: This guy looks like you got it, see kid, it's great.

576
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: It looks like deb Winger.

577
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: And then there was a shop a like list, so

578
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: people who bought similar things as the victims. So they

579
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: were just like building these huge profiles. Then the next

580
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 3: part of the scam starts. The victim they get letters

581
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: from a French psychic named Maria Duval just out of nowhere,

582
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: Clayton Gerber of the US Postal Inspection Services quote. These

583
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: would be printed via mail merge, so your name would

584
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 3: appear throughout. These were multi page letters, six or eight

585
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 3: or ten pages long. They would have graphics like they

586
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: have changes in font and they would have marginal notes

587
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: to make it look like if your eyesight wasn't great,

588
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: it would look like somebody had written a handwritten note

589
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: on the side of it. They they appeared to be

590
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: very personalized, like the letter was written directly to you,

591
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: like this was a friend writing to you. And many

592
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 3: people wrote back, yeah, I like that if your eyesight

593
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: isn't great. So it's like if I opened it up

594
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: and I'd be like, oh yeah, oh look they wrote.

595
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: Me a note, all these little notes on the side.

596
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: Some of the letters even had a fake coffee cup

597
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: stain on the paper to make it look more authentic.

598
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

599
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: And I guess a lot of people who got the

600
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 3: letters didn't remember filling out the original questionnaire.

601
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: Time past I'm sure.

602
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and well while they run all the list.

603
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't think that you'd be.

604
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: And so there was all this personal information and the

605
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: personalized letters. They seemed like proof of Maria's abilities. So,

606
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: for example, she'd say, you are mainly under the influence

607
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 3: of venus in addition to being born on May twenty second,

608
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty seven, in Kansas City at twelve pm. I

609
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: can already see some aspects of your personality. So if

610
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: you're just getting this, what you think is just a

611
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: cold letter, like that's crazy.

612
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 2: But she already knows that you like you know broken

613
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 2: for cheese. She's like mentioning it by Tiede. Yeah.

614
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 3: Here are some more excerpts. Quote two internationally renowned mediums

615
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: have predicted what your future holds. The news is fantastic.

616
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: Note these four things that are very important to you.

617
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 3: April second, twenty fourteen, Winnings problems solved, Like are you

618
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: kidding me? To celebrate your new life, we have prepared

619
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: a mysterious and extraordinary gift, a powerful talisman who can

620
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: attract money and chance. It's the same talisman that Patrick

621
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: Gren wears with him at all times. He never shared it,

622
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: but in your case, he didn't. Hesitates Patrick Gwren is

623
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: another cycle.

624
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 2: Sure, like a you're a Geller type whatever.

625
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: And then quote if you've got a special bottle of

626
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: Bubbly that you've been saving for celebrating great news, then

627
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: now's the time to open it.

628
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: I feel so bad for the people who fall victim

629
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: to this.

630
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

631
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: It's easier for me to always deal with people who

632
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: fall victim to a con man because they actively want

633
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: to try to like get over on somebody else. Like

634
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: I like, I don't mind those so much because it's like, oh,

635
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: you tried to get greedy. He thought you could be

636
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: on the inside. You thought you could be on the

637
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, somebody turned it on. You're like,

638
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: oh no, and you can't even go to the cops.

639
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: Right of counterfeit money machines exactly.

640
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: But like putting a fake ring on and notes on

641
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: the side, so people with poor eyesight are confused. I

642
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: now know who they're trying to hit. It's mostly old people. Yeah,

643
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: you know, it's like and old people who have some

644
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: belief in the world, Like, come on on the way out,

645
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: you're going to kick them a couple of times and

646
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: take those all.

647
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: Horrible anyway, There's this Canadian magazine, The Walrus. They wrote

648
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: quote some correspondence directed recipients to purchase supposedly supernatural objects,

649
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 3: while others urged them to use provided green envelopes to

650
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: mail personal items, family photographs, palm prints, locks of hair

651
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: against a promise that the psychic would use them to

652
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: conduct personalized rituals. Once this envelope has been sealed, it

653
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 3: may be only opened by me. Read one letter that

654
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: included Duval's photocopied signature. So sometimes the money request would

655
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: come only after they responded. Maria would offer more help,

656
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: but if they pay, And according to the Postal inspector

657
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: Gerber quote, the ask was always for twenty thirty forty dollars.

658
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 3: In return, you might get some sort of tiny trinket,

659
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: some sort of little talisman, some sort of newsletter. You

660
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 3: always got another solicitation. You always got another letter that

661
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: was a personalized plea asking for more money. And then

662
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: there was an escalation of some sixty seventy eighty different letters.

663
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: It was a progression. You paid on letter one, you

664
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 3: got letter two, you paid on letter two, you got

665
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 3: letter three. And it was always an ask for money.

666
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: Confuse, are we talking about American political parties? This is

667
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: like the emails you get from Oh my God, always

668
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: maybe at trinket.

669
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 3: Here's a bumper sticker. So those talisman trinkets cheap plastic

670
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: trinkets mass produced in China. Or it was a quote

671
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 3: vibratory crystal that they described as quote they are wrenched

672
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 3: from the mountains by volcanic eruptions and erosion, falling into

673
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 3: rivers where they are sought for their beauty and their powers.

674
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: The crystal is a living stone that has a heart,

675
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: a sort of atomic battery with the power to harness

676
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: and redirect energy. This pure energy can channel your thoughts

677
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: and then change the course of events. As soon as

678
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: you wear your vibratory crystal, your mind instantly sharpens and

679
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: you feel your energy level surge. Nothing can stand in

680
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: your way. You are going to find it easy to

681
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: harness that strength to get whatever you want from life

682
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: and resolve all your problems.

683
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: Of course, I mean, just put the crystal, the vibratory crystal.

684
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: Maybe they're getting like I'm sure these crystals from like

685
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: Kazakhstan for like you know, a one ton for five

686
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: francs or whatever and then just handing them out. But like,

687
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: other than the fact that there are a lot of

688
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: people who can point out stuff about like oh crystals

689
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,959
Speaker 2: and rocks and that will do some things, you know,

690
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: Like but I like how this stuff is always like

691
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: it's going to do everything. It's gonna it's gonna fix

692
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: your whole life. Might just totally. It could just make

693
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: you feel little better, it might orient some energies or whatever. Nope,

694
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: they're like, no, this one's going to file your totally.

695
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: So between nineteen ninety four and twenty fourteen, the scam

696
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 3: earned more than one hundred and seventy five million US

697
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: dollars from the US and Canada and uh.

698
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: Over the crazy such a small ass.

699
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, some got up to like thousands of thousands that

700
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: they were handing over. Others had her on their an

701
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: old Christmas card.

702
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: It's got to be so many people who follow evict

703
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: him to this to get to those numbers.

704
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: Oh, completely, And so let's learn about these two con

705
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: men please. Jean Claude Reel was a Swiss businessman and

706
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 3: Jacques Mallard French marketing genius so real he had experienced

707
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 3: in the mail order world. He sold like painkiller bracelets

708
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: and a device that instantly ages wine shoe and steps

709
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: that help you lose weight and so earlier in.

710
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: His bracelet makes your hair grow back.

711
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 3: He had been into like UFO stuff earlier in his life. Yeah.

712
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: And then he also owned a company called Infojest, the

713
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: mail or her company. Yeah, infojest, but with a g

714
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 3: okay jest. Yeah, and so they that was the company

715
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: behind the scam Infojest. When CNN tracked him down in

716
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, Reel told the journalists that while he had

717
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: once owned Infojest, he hadn't been involved in many many

718
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: years he retired in two thousand and six. Total lies,

719
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: not true all And he said he kind of only

720
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: knew Maria casually at that time. Mayon, the marketing guy,

721
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: you know, he's the one who kind of just connected

722
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 3: the dots.

723
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: He's friends.

724
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: She knew about Maria and France and like, you know,

725
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: connected it all over.

726
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: So I've heard of her. I knew people that might

727
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 2: want to know her.

728
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: So they have this Infojess that's in the in North America.

729
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 3: But then they had like a Swiss subsidiary. They had

730
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 3: them all over the world. They're doing this in other countries,

731
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: other languages. But here's like, here's an example for North America.

732
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: Infojest Direct Marketing wrote and designed the letters, and then

733
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: a Canadian company, a different company, printed and addressed them

734
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: and then shipped them to a company in Albany, New York,

735
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: where they were mailed out in bulk, and then any

736
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,959
Speaker 3: responses were sent to commercial mailboxes owned by a Hong

737
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 3: Kong based company called Destiny Research Center, and then those

738
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: were gathered and sent to another company, Data Marketing Group

739
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 3: on Long Island.

740
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: Back to America. Uh huh interesting.

741
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 3: Long Island zaren Yes, Long Island. Yeah, In Long Island. Yes,

742
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: I want you to picture picture Long Island. It's your

743
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 3: first day on the job at Data Marketing Group in

744
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: Deer Park, New York. You used to work at the

745
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: coals at the shopping center down the street, but a

746
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: friend clued you in on this gig. You'll be working

747
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: in the mailroom, processing letters sent in from customers. That's

748
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 3: what they told you. You're in a five story building

749
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: that houses the First National Bank of Long Island. On

750
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: the ground floor for blocks on either side of you

751
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 3: or single level office park type places, HVAC companies, etc.

752
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 3: You're being walked around the offices by a guy named Franco.

753
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 3: He wears a big bluetooth earpiece and absolutely stinks of cologne.

754
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: He's showing you the cubicles where people type lazily or

755
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 3: talk on the phone. You can't hear what they're saying.

756
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 3: You pass a room with two long tables. A bunch

757
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 3: of women sit along the tables, some scanning checks in

758
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: the machine, others running currency through speed counters. They all

759
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: wear the same blue polo shirts and latex clubs. No

760
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: one looks up as you poke your heavyloone. Franco tells

761
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 3: you that This is the cash room. They process all

762
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 3: of the payments received. He tells you they run about

763
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 3: five hundred thousand dollars every two weeks. You whistle, that's

764
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 3: a lot of money. You ask Franco what people are

765
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 3: buying services? He tells you. As you walk down the

766
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 3: gray carpeted hallway, its short nap showing where from years

767
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 3: of office workers trudging back and forth. You ask Franco

768
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 3: exactly what she'll be doing. Let's watch and you can learn,

769
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: he says. He takes you to a large room with

770
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 3: us mail bins stacked along a wall, tons of them.

771
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: A man stands at a counter that runs down the

772
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 3: center of the room. A tinny radio plays quietly in

773
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 3: the corner of the room, kerky classical music, competing with

774
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: Uhammad the air conditioning system. The man pulls letters from

775
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 3: the mail bin next to him on a cart his

776
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: latex love hands expertly using a small letter opener to

777
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 3: slice a on the envelope. You watch as he extracts

778
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 3: a piece of paper, a photo, and a checked He

779
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 3: scans the letter and tosses it into a hole in

780
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: the counter. He glances at the photo and tosses it

781
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 3: into that same hole. Then he looks at the check

782
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: and carefully places it into a tray in front of him.

783
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: Stacks the checks filled a tray. He puts the envelope

784
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: into another tray. He opens another letter, this time a

785
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 3: large Manila enflop. He pulls out sheets and sheets of

786
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 3: paper with feeble scrawl filling the page and slanted lines.

787
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 3: He scans the text and tosses it into the hole.

788
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: Then he pulls out what looks to be a lock

789
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 3: of hair ough Franco mutters. The man at the counter

790
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: looks over at you two and rolls his eyes. Then

791
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 3: he shrugs and unceremoniously tosses the hair in the hole.

792
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 3: Then he reaches into the Manilla envelope and pulls out

793
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: a stack of cash, held together with a bunch of

794
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: old crackled rubber bands and yellows and tans and pinks.

795
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 3: He places the cash into a strong box next to

796
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: the check tray and puts the Manilla envelope in the

797
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: other tray. Franco turns to you and claps you on

798
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 3: the shoulder. He tells you he thinks you've got it

799
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: figured out. That Philip there will answer any questions you

800
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: may have. He tells you that your lunch break is

801
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 3: at eleven forty five. Then he turns and walks away

802
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 3: down the hall. Let's take a break. Yeah, I have

803
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: to split this one up.

804
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 2: It's a lunch break.

805
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: Lunch break eleven forty five. All right, when we come back,

806
00:38:51,440 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 3: we'll get back on the scene. All right, Zarin, we're

807
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 3: in Long Island.

808
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm still enjoying your stunch break. Yeah, I come back

809
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 2: for your lunch break.

810
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: Okay. So you head into the mail room with Philip,

811
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: and you stand at the counter opposite of him. The

812
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 3: two of you introduce yourselves and he tells you to

813
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 3: wheel a mail bin over on the cart and get started.

814
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: He tells you to put on some gloves from the

815
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 3: box on the table in the corner, and then he

816
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: tells you to start opening the mail. Pull out the

817
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: letter if there is one, read through it and make

818
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: sure there's no credit card or bank information written on it.

819
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: Then toss it in the hole. Look for any pictures

820
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: or mementos or little gifts, toss those in the hole. Two.

821
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 3: Then pull out any money, cash, check, money order, whatever,

822
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: and place it in the appropriate tray or box. He

823
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 3: tells you someone will come by every hour to empty

824
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 3: the trays. Oh, and there are cameras up in the

825
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: corners by the ceiling, so don't try any funny business.

826
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: Then you got to put the envelope and the envelope tray,

827
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: so you track the names and addresses. You grab your

828
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: first envelope and get to work. You use the little

829
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 3: tool to slice it open. It holds a short letter

830
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: on a note card, which you read over quickly. It's

831
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 3: asking someone named Maria for help. They want to know

832
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: if their daughter will ever come home. Apparently she went

833
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: missing when she was six. That was twelve years ago.

834
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 3: There's a photo too, a gap tooth little girl and pigtail,

835
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 3: smiles up at the camera, the sun in her eyes.

836
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 3: I put these in the hole. You ask Philip yep,

837
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 3: he tells you. You ask him how everything gets filed

838
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: when it's all jumbled in the bin under the hole.

839
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: That's the trash man, he tells you. A guy comes

840
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 3: by every couple of hours to empty it out, goes

841
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: out to the dumpster. Photos, swatches of clothing, locks of

842
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: hair thrown away. You feel sick. You take the check

843
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: that was in the envelope. Two hundred and fifty dollars

844
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: and place it in the empty tray in front of you.

845
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: You stare at it for a bit, and then you

846
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: turn and walk out of the room. You head straight

847
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 3: for the elevators and go out to your car and

848
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 3: drive home. Third one this month, Philip mutters to himself

849
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: as he slices open another envelope of desperation.

850
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my heart breaks. I just want to

851
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: go fight these frenchmen.

852
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 3: Right.

853
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: Oh my god, knuckle up, Come on, Frank.

854
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: Now that I've bummed you out the day at Data marketing,

855
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 3: processing payments, this is why I can't write that book.

856
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: Would you say it does that?

857
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: When you said that circular hole, I was like, that's

858
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: gonna be the circular file the screenplays go into. I

859
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: know this.

860
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: So remember Maria was in name only, was saying that

861
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: the personal items would help with the readings. Oh my god,

862
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 3: folks at Data Marketing, just throw them away. Enter Patrice Runner.

863
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: All right, he's Runner.

864
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: He's the main man on this whole info just stuff

865
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: in North America. Oh yeah, So he met up in

866
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: the eighties night you know, late eighties, early nineties with

867
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: Mayo and Real and the Maria Duvalscan was up and

868
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: running in Europe at that point, and he's like, I'm

869
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: from Canada. Let's do North America.

870
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: Got you?

871
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 3: So he goes out to France wants to meet Maria

872
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: and then get the rights to do North America. And

873
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 3: she did a reading on him and is then girlfriend.

874
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: They're convinced she's the real deal.

875
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: Huh.

876
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 3: So he does. He's the one who starts the North

877
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: America Maria Duval direct Malee, Okay.

878
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: He's like, I got a big market of suckers.

879
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's got the blessing of Mayon and Real

880
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: of course, who were just soaking Europe at this time.

881
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

882
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 3: So he gives Duval a five percent royalty and I'm

883
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: sure he's kicking up to Mayon and Real, but Duval's

884
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: five percent royalty was several hundred thousand dollars a year.

885
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: That's how much money. And so he you know, he

886
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 3: does the ads in the newspaper, and he was writing

887
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 3: his own copy at first, and then he started hiring copywriters.

888
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 3: Imagine getting that job of writing these letters.

889
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: I mean, yes and no, Like it's one of those

890
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: ones like I totally think it'll be fun, until I

891
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: realized what I was doing and then I absolutely hate it.

892
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: Like he was pulling in like for on the first day.

893
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.

894
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: Pulling in for him, like twenty three million a year,

895
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: and he lived in he had he lived in Whistler,

896
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: Costa Rica, Switzerland, Paris, Ibiza, and he and his family

897
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 3: traveled all over because like he doesn't have to do anything,

898
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: it's on autopilot. Between twenty six and twenty fourteen, his

899
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: company sent out at least fifty six million Maria Duval letters.

900
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: How are there that many people calling for the.

901
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: He did like ab testing between different versions of the letter,

902
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: so he would like test him out on groups of

903
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: fifty thousand to see which had more people respond according

904
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: to AARP, which you know they were like their bat

905
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 3: signal went off.

906
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

907
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: Federal investigators estimate the scam impacted one in three hundred Americans,

908
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 3: about one point four million victims, and raked in over

909
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: two hundred million dollars, with a similar proportion in Canada.

910
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 2: That's a lot.

911
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: One in three hundred. US Postal inspectors. They start getting

912
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: complaints around two thousand and six. In two thousand and seven,

913
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: the US Postal Inspectors they filed a cease and desist

914
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 3: order against Maria Duval, Patrese Runner, and then others, including

915
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: a company called Zodiac Zone.

916
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: That sounds like such nonsense.

917
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 4: I know.

918
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: I don't know if runners or if it's a different

919
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: partner in the scam. It just it gets really murky,

920
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 3: get thrown in there.

921
00:43:59,320 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

922
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 3: A settlement was negotiated and the individuals named agreed to

923
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: cease operations. Zodiac Zone just changed its name and continued

924
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: to do business as usual.

925
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 2: Using the same male system.

926
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

927
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: Everything just now we're like Bodiac Bone.

928
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 2: I don't know.

929
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: And although Patre's Runner was one of the people originally sued,

930
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: his lawyers negotiated to later have his name removed from

931
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 3: the lawsuit, arguing that he'd already left the business and

932
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the scam. That is a

933
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 3: complete lie, totally involved. The FTC already knew about Runner

934
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety seven. They reached out to him to

935
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: verify claims in an ad that he was running for

936
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: Svelt Patch. Svelt Patch it was a skin patch that

937
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 3: was supposed to melt away body fat. What Yeah, and

938
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: if you can believe it, Zarin, he didn't have any

939
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 3: proof that Svelt Patch would actually help people drop pounds,

940
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: what is not crazy? So his company was ordered to

941
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 3: pay the FTC three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars,

942
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: mainly to pay back the people who bought the pack.

943
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: Okay, that was go around what he had made. So

944
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: it wasn't like he made seven million and had to

945
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: pay three hundreds. I don't operating costs.

946
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what his full hall was. I'm

947
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: praying that that was.

948
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: Like helping this restitution.

949
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: A few years later, the FEDS tried again, according to

950
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 3: that book, a Deal with the Devil. In twenty fourteen,

951
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: USPIS Inspector Thomas Ninen was looking into a different fraud

952
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 3: when he saw an alarming number of withdrawal requests were

953
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 3: being denied for payments to one business in particular with

954
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 3: an intriguing name, Destiny Research Center, a company registered in

955
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 3: Hong Kong. So twenty fourteen, the Department of Justice filed

956
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: a lawsuit against Duval and Patrick Gurrin, the other psychic,

957
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: and so the lawsuit temporarily prevented Data Marketing Group. That's

958
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: where you were working for a little bit.

959
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: Of course, how could I forget.

960
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 3: And info just direct marketing runners company in Montreal, Montreal

961
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: from sending out letters to the US. Three Info Just

962
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: Canada employees were named, but not Runner, who avoided being

963
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: named in the lawsuit.

964
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah good lawyer.

965
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 3: Runner said that he didn't know the envelopes filled with

966
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 3: hair and photos weren't being sent to Duval in France.

967
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: I know harro photos, but that's one hundred percent falls

968
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: he set.

969
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: The whole thing up, is his organization. Yeah.

970
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 3: Twenty sixteen, the lawsuits settled. None of the eight defendants,

971
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: including Duval and Garren, admitted guilt, but they were all

972
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 3: barred from sending letters in the United States.

973
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: And none of this was any letters, I guess because

974
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: they're not promising anything.

975
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: I don't know, but there's like hank money involved, I

976
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 3: don't know. Twenty eighteen, the US Postal Inspector and other

977
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 3: US government officials came to Maria's house in southern France,

978
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 3: like that's a junket. But at this point she had

979
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 3: like really advanced and.

980
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: Mess Yeah, she's like out of it entire I mean

981
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: she's aged.

982
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 3: So they didn't learn much, but they got a trip

983
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 3: to the South France courtesy of Uncle Sam.

984
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: I like to see postal carriers out there.

985
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: Exactly. However, you know they're facing potential criminal charges. Some

986
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: Infojest employees helped the US government in charges against Runner,

987
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 3: maybe Philip in the mail room Runner was charged. Runner

988
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 3: was charged in absentia in twenty eighteen. In twenty twenty,

989
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 3: he was located living in a tent on the beach

990
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 3: in Ibatza.

991
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 4: What.

992
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, his wife had left him and kicked him out.

993
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god, and he had no money. This is

994
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 3: beautifully living. He was arrested and extradited back to the

995
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 3: US in the fall.

996
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: Of twenty So he wasn't doing like an ayahuasca cleanse.

997
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: He was just beat town broke. He was with bad

998
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 2: facial hair, hanging out in the tent.

999
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: In June of twenty twenty three, he was found guilty

1000
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 3: of fourteen counts of mail and wire fraud. There it is.

1001
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,479
Speaker 3: He faces up to twenty years in prison per count.

1002
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 3: But he's still a waiting sentencing.

1003
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: Oh, he going to get it.

1004
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. He has maintained that while what he did may

1005
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 3: not have been moral, it wasn't fraud.

1006
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: Oh my god. That's a terrible I know.

1007
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 3: And that magazine The Walrus, they said. In his trial,

1008
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 3: his lawyers argued that quote, psychic services are inherently misleading

1009
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 3: and therefore could not be fraud.

1010
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's actually a very interesting argument. Look,

1011
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: everybody knows, they knows, so if you fall for it,

1012
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, but you know.

1013
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: And a bit of good news because the uspis settled

1014
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: with the data broker for one hundred and twenty seven

1015
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: point five million what they were able to pay back

1016
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 3: many of Maria's victims.

1017
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: Oh that's the least good. Yeah, there's something there, like

1018
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: they get some sense of justice Financially, I'm still hung

1019
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 2: up on the throwing out the pictures and the little

1020
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: bits of talismanic juice that these people are sending over there.

1021
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: The little bits of hope.

1022
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: Yes, I just I hope that the Postal Service is

1023
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: able to actually get them all on these charges. And

1024
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: I'm not somebody who's like, yeah, throw them away and

1025
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 2: lock them up, throw away the key and all that. No. No,

1026
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: but seriously, for these guys, well, I think under the prison, I.

1027
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: Don't know where real is. Myom has passed away, but anyway,

1028
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 3: they're horrible, and I hope all bad things happen here.

1029
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: We take some money from his I'm not going to

1030
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 2: come out to his family.

1031
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:20,439
Speaker 3: Captain d give me a talk back. God, I went cheat.

1032
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 4: Hey, Elizabeth hay Saren, longtime listener, first time color so

1033
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 4: I just want to say thank you for bringing me

1034
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 4: laughs near like every week. I started listening to these

1035
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,919
Speaker 4: by myself, but when you got got to the Cocaine Bear,

1036
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 4: I just had to share it with my dad. So

1037
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 4: thanks to bringing us both laughter. Have a good day. Bye,

1038
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 4: hey again. Also, I would so buy a Sandalwood University

1039
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 4: T shirt, just saying please.

1040
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: Do those right.

1041
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: Yes, the dreamcatch.

1042
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 3: I like how Cocaine Bear brings families together.

1043
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: Really beautiful, so beautiful. Thank you so much.

1044
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 3: Good job for bringing that into this world. That's all

1045
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: I have for today. You can find us online at

1046
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: ridiculous Crime dot com. We're also on the internet. Email

1047
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, and please

1048
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: leave a talk back on the iHeart app. We love

1049
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: those reach out reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1050
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Dutton and Sarah Burnett, produced and edited by cash

1051
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: Room supervisor Dave Cousten. Research is by Madame Marissa Brown,

1052
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: Psychic to the Stars and Zodiac enthusiast, and by that

1053
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 3: I mean the rafts Andrea song Sharpen Tear. The theme

1054
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: song is by mail order. Empresarios Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton.

1055
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 3: Post wardrobe is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair

1056
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: and makeup provided by Sparkleshot and Mister Andre. Executive producers

1057
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: are Missing Hiker, Ben Bollen and Crystal Ballwaxer Nol Brown.

1058
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: Ridicous Crime Say It One More Timequeous cry Ridiculous Crime

1059
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts. My heart Radio,

1060
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1061
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.