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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime is a production of iHeartRadio Elizabeth. Nothing much,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's ridiculous. Oh man, I'm waiting to see

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Speaker 1: you because I had something for you that I need

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Speaker 1: him explaining. Okay, all right, so Finland the country. Nothing

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Speaker 1: ridiculous about that, No, totally reasonable. Right. But there's this

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Speaker 1: town called Sabin Lena. You ever heard of this? Nope?

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Speaker 1: They have something called the Mobile Phone Throwing Championship. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So contestants who I hope to be one day, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go do this. They are encouraged and I quote,

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Speaker 1: to choose the phone that best fits to his or

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Speaker 1: her hand or looks the nicest. This is according to

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Speaker 1: the official website for the sport. Okay, and then they

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Speaker 1: are told that there are quote clearly two parties in this.

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Speaker 1: Some believe that the heavier phones fly further than lighter ones,

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Speaker 1: and others think just the opposite. M Now, I don't

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Speaker 1: have opinions about heavier or lighter. I just want to

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Speaker 1: chuck a phone and be able to compete. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's for me. I mean, how many times do you

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Speaker 1: drive when you're out of your car? Like I could

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Speaker 1: totally fling this thing. It's just me, Okay, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's a part of me that thinks I would want

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Speaker 1: that no Kia brick. Yeah, and like I think I

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Speaker 1: could hurl that pretty far. Shop at that some of

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Speaker 1: those big smartphones like the big Apple or like the

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Speaker 1: other ones that are just like kind of like small iPad,

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Speaker 1: you could throw it like a frisbee. I think you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get too much surface area and it's gonna flail out.

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Speaker 1: I think you want like either one of those like razors,

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Speaker 1: or like one of those bricks, right you got masked

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Speaker 1: holding together, or else like something real slight. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the idea is you want to throw it to if

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Speaker 1: you're going to really compete. Three hundred and twenty feet

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Speaker 1: is the record so far. Wow, that's serious. That's ninety

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Speaker 1: seven meters or almost ninety eight meters. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: almost a football field, Am I correct in that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So if you hear noise next time you come to headquarters,

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Speaker 1: it's just me out back practicing. So I'll have like

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Speaker 1: a bucket of phones and just be hitting a fence.

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Speaker 1: That's what that is. In case you hear that, it's

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Speaker 1: me and the boys bopping. That is ridiculous. Okay, I thought, So,

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Speaker 1: do you know what else is ridiculous? No baiting people

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Speaker 1: into stealing your identity and then being surprised when they do. Wait, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is ridiculous crime. A podcast about absurd and outrageous

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Speaker 1: capers heist cause it's always nine murder free and one

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Speaker 1: ridiculous zen Elizabeth, I know you've posed as someone else before,

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Speaker 1: but if you have, you ever had you someone steal

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Speaker 1: your identity? Not that I'm aware of. Okay, Um, I

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Speaker 1: had a sort of identity theft, but not really okay.

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Speaker 1: So years ago I started getting emails from Instagram with

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Speaker 1: links to reset my password, but I hadn't attempted to

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Speaker 1: do such a thing. So this went on for a

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Speaker 1: couple of months and it stopped. Um, I feel like

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Speaker 1: Instagram used to, or maybe still does, tell you where

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Speaker 1: the attempted log in was from. Sounds familiar, right, So

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Speaker 1: somehow I found out that the attempts were coming from Colorado,

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Speaker 1: so that was weird. Every now and then I'd get

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Speaker 1: email newsletters from politicians or car dealerships in Colorado, so

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Speaker 1: I would just unsubscribe. Move on. I like to keep

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Speaker 1: a clean inbox. In box zero huh, Yeah, fast forward

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Speaker 1: to about two years ago. I started getting tons of

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Speaker 1: emails about applications to various colleges in the Mountain region,

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Speaker 1: and then a few that were a little farther afield.

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Speaker 1: These were automated replies to request for information from someone

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Speaker 1: using my email address, they had to actively go sign up.

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Speaker 1: I was getting like fifty a week. It's a lot,

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Speaker 1: and it was annoying. So some of the emails were

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Speaker 1: directed at parents of prospective students, which made me think

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Speaker 1: that maybe someone's mom had like forgotten her email address,

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Speaker 1: forgotten their child's email, yeah, and that it was like

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Speaker 1: theirs was deceptively close to mine or something. So whatever,

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Speaker 1: the email stopped and I figured that she had got

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Speaker 1: into college, and you know, congratulations to them and their

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Speaker 1: impending student debt. I also I got an email from

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Speaker 1: an urgent care clinic in Denver confirming a COVID test. Nice,

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Speaker 1: so I hope they didn't get the vidis, but like,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. So then something super weird happened. A couple

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Speaker 1: of months ago, I got an email congratulating me on

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Speaker 1: listing my house for sale in Denver from a storage company. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and it included the address of the supposed house. Oh wow.

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Speaker 1: So I looked up the listing and I emailed the

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Speaker 1: listing agent special Detective Yes, and I told him my story,

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Speaker 1: and I asked him to contact the client for me,

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Speaker 1: because I thought, once and for all, I have to

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Speaker 1: tell this woman, your email address is not my challenge.

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Speaker 1: You finally got a chance to connect, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I get an email from the other Elizabeth Dutton like

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Speaker 1: an hour later, and it was wild from the set

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Speaker 1: of the TV show. Sorry, oh, that's a whole other story.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't go by Elizabeth, she never has. Oh not

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Speaker 1: the show. My god, we're here with Beth Dutton. Still,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. No, No, what's it called a Yellowstone? Yeah? No,

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Speaker 1: she goes by her middle name and always has so

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Speaker 1: she doesn't have anything. And it's not Clyde. No, she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have anything in Elizabeth Dutton, right, And our emails

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Speaker 1: are nowhere close to each other. So her kids, like,

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Speaker 1: they went to college around the time I was getting

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Speaker 1: the emails, but they went back east. They didn't stay

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Speaker 1: in the region. And one of her kids also drives

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Speaker 1: the same make of car that I was getting oil

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Speaker 1: change reminders from in Colorado, but they didn't buy it.

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Speaker 1: At the dealership and they never took it to that

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Speaker 1: dealership for service. Wait, what, it's weird. She and I

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Speaker 1: are still stumped about it to this day. So there's

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Speaker 1: a third Elizabeth Dutton out there, we guess in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: both of you. But why would it go to her

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Speaker 1: her address? Her home address was listed on the email

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Speaker 1: to me. Well, have an idea for that. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: could have been automated where he went with the Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Dutton address, like it could have been the system it

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Speaker 1: self kicked in the address like an autocomplete. So I

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Speaker 1: can see how they could go to the wrong address.

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Speaker 1: But she'd have to be in the same system, so

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Speaker 1: you'd have to have so that system would be your

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Speaker 1: two Duttons. I guess maybe it's weird. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: that's super weird. And the fact that they have the

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Speaker 1: same cars and we're sure she wasn't lying to you,

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Speaker 1: well maybe, I mean, there's no reason for her. I

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Speaker 1: asked her if people asked her if she's related to

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Speaker 1: the Duttons on Yellowstone. Oh, you got to have that moment.

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Speaker 1: The dutt No, because she doesn't go by Elizabeth and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, so they don't do the last name, it

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Speaker 1: actually has to be Elizabeth. They're like, I don't hear

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Speaker 1: it otherwise. Yeah, I suppose, but like I think have

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Speaker 1: I said on here before about how people asked me

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Speaker 1: about it all the time and they think it's like

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Speaker 1: real family that are you related to the Duttons? Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's a real we were not ranchers. When I

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Speaker 1: asked you if you're related to Rock Dutton, the actor

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Speaker 1: you know from Charles Dutton, Yeah, from The Rock And

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Speaker 1: I was like, are you related to Rock Dutton? And

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Speaker 1: you would invite that Rock was the show and Charles

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Speaker 1: Dutton was the actor. It's I don't I get it,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's difficult. Well that's when I was also

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Speaker 1: going by Rock Yeah, that was really the Rock Dotton

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Speaker 1: at AOL dot com. Yeah. I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: just all kinds of confusing, and with a que I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, Rock, Well, um, so anyway, she and

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Speaker 1: I are stumped. Someone else is like stealing our identities

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Speaker 1: but not really, but there was no borrowing them lightly right?

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Speaker 1: Was it like traditional identity theft? You know? There was

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Speaker 1: a prolific identity thief named Philip Cummings in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four. He pleaded guilty to what was pretty much

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Speaker 1: the largest identity theft case in the history of the

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Speaker 1: United States. UM he worked for Telidata Communications in New

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Speaker 1: York running credit checks and can we stop for one

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Speaker 1: second and talk about how bogus credit scores and credit

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Speaker 1: reports are. Oh yeah, I mean that's like something they invented.

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Speaker 1: And everyone was like, yeah, well, pretend this is a

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Speaker 1: real deal. The FICO score only goes back to like

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. Yeah, it sustains total economic inequality, and

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Speaker 1: it's a poor indicator of for something. It's inaccurate totally. Plus,

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Speaker 1: people use game you can play. I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: not real. It's not like a People use it for

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Speaker 1: things unrelated to credit, like job applications, and you get

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Speaker 1: punished for not having enough credit cards or not having

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Speaker 1: credit cards. I didn't have I didn't use credit cards

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Speaker 1: for a decade. I didn't have any credit and so

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a credit score. So I would go

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Speaker 1: in places they didn't have enough information to tabulate a

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Speaker 1: credit score for me, so I couldn't do anything because

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Speaker 1: they're like it was like I was a five year old.

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Speaker 1: I had just no credit. Well, and if you if

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Speaker 1: too many people run a report, it affects the number.

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Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, I say this as someone with near

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Speaker 1: a near perfect credit score. I think it's garbage anyway.

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Speaker 1: So this dude he used his access to steal the

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Speaker 1: passwords of more than thirty thousand customers, and then he

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Speaker 1: sold those to criminals, and the criminals in turn led

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Speaker 1: everyone drive. I like picturing him in like a park

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Speaker 1: trying to like sell them one at a time, little

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Speaker 1: scraps of last post it all told though, they got

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Speaker 1: about fifty to one hundred million dollars out of these

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand people. Wow, yeah, he soaked them. Then there

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Speaker 1: was Abraham Abdulla. He found sensitive information like addresses, data burr,

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Speaker 1: social security numbers, phone numbers for people like Oprah, Steven Spielberg,

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Speaker 1: Warren Buffett, and then he would submit change of address

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Speaker 1: forms and have their mail sent to him. And then

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Speaker 1: that gave him access to stuff like credit cards and

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Speaker 1: base statements, right, and postcards. And it's like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: what Gail said. I think that's why the post office

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Speaker 1: takes a little small credit card charge now, Like if

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Speaker 1: you do a change of address, Yeah, I moved recently,

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Speaker 1: and like I had to do that and you have

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Speaker 1: to give him a credit. I think they charge it

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Speaker 1: and it charges back whatever I took pay attention. But

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Speaker 1: so that that's fill it out online. Yeah. Another good

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Speaker 1: one is what happened to this guy Cody Nipe in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. He had just closed down his hookah bar,

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Speaker 1: tea room and board game business and didn't work no,

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Speaker 1: and he hated. He needed to a ride to be

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Speaker 1: able to deliver for door Dash and Grubhub. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: know where this was, oddly enough, Colorado interesting center of

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Speaker 1: all identity coming full circle. So he saw a car

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Speaker 1: that he liked on Facebook marketplace as one does, that's

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Speaker 1: where you shot for cars, and he contacted the seller.

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Speaker 1: They met up, Cody took the car for a spin,

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Speaker 1: and then they agreed on a price thirty five. Cody

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Speaker 1: paid cash, The seller hands over the title and the

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Speaker 1: key seller takes off in an uber. Cody drives his

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Speaker 1: sweet little new to him Yaris home me. A week later,

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Speaker 1: Cody goes to the DMV to register the car and

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Speaker 1: he's told it's stolen. Cody, your car stolen. He's like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's in the parking lot. The DMB told them to

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Speaker 1: take the car. He told him to take the car

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Speaker 1: to the sheriff's office because maybe it was reported stolen

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Speaker 1: a long time ago and then recovered and they forgot

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Speaker 1: to take the flag off the record. Cody goes to

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Speaker 1: the sheriff's office. No luck, the car is actually stolen.

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Speaker 1: Come to find out, the original owners had gone on

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Speaker 1: vacation and they pulled the brain genius move of leaving

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Speaker 1: the title and extra key in the glove box. I

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Speaker 1: don't know any just reported like, well, you know that's

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Speaker 1: what they did. Know why that's the business heronic move?

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Speaker 1: Why not just tape it to the window. I mean it,

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Speaker 1: I this makes me wonder if the owners were in

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Speaker 1: on it. That's just pure speculation, but it really was.

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Speaker 1: Huh so like a four thousand dollars car. I'm not

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Speaker 1: thinking much as going into this one. Well, either way,

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Speaker 1: Cody had to surrender the car and he's out thirty five. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, so what I'm saying is this, be careful, Saron.

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Speaker 1: I will be careful. Um. I keep an eye on

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Speaker 1: my credit score and all that, but I don't subscribe

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Speaker 1: to like a service to protect my identity. Sure do you?

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know there was such a thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know there are such LifeLock, right, Yes, I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of it. That brings us to the subject of today's episode, LifeLock.

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Speaker 1: Are you familiar with LifeLock? I think I've heard the

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Speaker 1: ads or heard you say it, just like around the office,

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Speaker 1: just going around LifeLock. It's like a flack but less grading. Yeah, LifeLock.

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Speaker 1: They saw software that scans for identity, theft, credit score activity,

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Speaker 1: and the use of personal information. The company was started

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and five by Todd Davis and Robert Maynard.

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Speaker 1: You're writing this down. Yes. It was bought by Smantech

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Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen for two point three billion dollars. Wow,

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Speaker 1: but a lot happened before twenty seventeen. Okay, it's now

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Speaker 1: Norton LifeLock because it got bought again or spun off,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. Anyway, So at the start, Davis

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Speaker 1: was the CEO and Maynard was the cook the coup.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember the ads from back

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Speaker 1: in the day, but Davis and Maynard, as well as

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Speaker 1: their company spokesman, they they gave out their social Security

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Speaker 1: numbers because they were so sure that product work. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean gave out like on their business cards,

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Speaker 1: like number. Oh yeah, no, like they had it in

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Speaker 1: the ads. It creates all this. But they had their

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Speaker 1: social security number just on the strings. Put his social

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Speaker 1: security number on a flatbed truck that drove around. Then

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Speaker 1: they put it in TV and print ads, his social

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Speaker 1: security number. The ad said that LifeLock made the data

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Speaker 1: quote useless to criminals. He put his social security number

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Speaker 1: on the website right there on Beyonce's Internet for all

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Speaker 1: the same So and we're talking about him. So I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing this did not work out, and it was. It

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Speaker 1: was great, it worked the end um. They had lots

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Speaker 1: of celebrity spokesman Rush Limbaugh, Paul Harvey, Howard Stern, really

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Speaker 1: going for a certain audience, Montell Williams. Yep, it's a

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Speaker 1: murderers row of trustworthy guys. Yeah. Really can they not

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Speaker 1: get alxtre back in there? But here's the thing. The

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Speaker 1: celebrities didn't offer up their social Security number. No, no,

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Speaker 1: So the company charged one hundred dollars a year, or

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Speaker 1: they'd give you a deal ten dollars a month. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you get a deal if you do pay in

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Speaker 1: full for a year. That was back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven to help the customers monitor their accounts with

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Speaker 1: the three credit reporting bureaus. It also offered a million

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Speaker 1: dollar insurance policy to cover losses if a customer was

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Speaker 1: victim of identity theft. So by early two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: LifeLock said it had only paid out losses three times

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Speaker 1: in amounts far less than a million dollars. Right by

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Speaker 1: May of two thousand and seven, LifeLock claimed to have

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand customers and they'd recently received

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Speaker 1: six million dollars in seed investments. But a year later

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Speaker 1: they said it they had a million customers. So this

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Speaker 1: thing's just booming. Yeah, you know, with like the Internet's

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Speaker 1: getting more and more accessible to people, and everyone's talking

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Speaker 1: about identity theft, and it becomes this hot button issue exactly,

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Speaker 1: And it became an issue where people were worried about it.

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Speaker 1: They're talking about it, so everyone's like, what can I do?

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Speaker 1: I need to want something simple? Yeah, it's simple. They're

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Speaker 1: going to do it ten bucks a month and they

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Speaker 1: can protect me. June two thousand and seven, Wired reported

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Speaker 1: that Davis was the victim of identity theft, so not

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Speaker 1: to victim blame. But that's what you get smearing your

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Speaker 1: social security number all over the place. Now, a thief

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Speaker 1: used his social security number to get a five hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars loan from a check cashing company in Fort Worth,

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Speaker 1: Texas hundred bucks. The thief also had Davis's wife's cell

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Speaker 1: phone number, and Davis only found out about this when

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Speaker 1: the company called his wife to try and recover the

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Speaker 1: unpaid debt. He was not alerted by LifeLock. So a

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Speaker 1: LifeLock spokesperson said that because the check cashing company didn't

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Speaker 1: run a credit report on the social security number, the

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Speaker 1: fraud alert was not revealed. So there's no way that

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Speaker 1: LifeLock could have performed. Yeah, but no criminal charges were

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Speaker 1: filed though. I right, Well, when we get back from

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Speaker 1: this break, i'll tell you all right, all right, we're back. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you look at us? Hey. So, Todd Davis, the CEO

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Speaker 1: of LifeLock, put his social security number all over ads

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Speaker 1: for the company. It's everywhere. So he put on a

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Speaker 1: pair of red boxers and went hanging out in a bullpen.

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Speaker 1: He's like, how many bulls do we have here? Exactly? Okay? Now,

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Speaker 1: LifeLock was supposed to be so badass though that no

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Speaker 1: one would be able to steal his identity and I

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Speaker 1: don't know take out a loan for five hundred bucks,

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Speaker 1: but they did. The person who did it was caught,

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Speaker 1: but no criminal charges were ever filed because that would

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Speaker 1: have gotten press. Well why you're saying before the Fort

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Speaker 1: Worth police could finish their investigation. Well, let me show you, Zareny,

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Speaker 1: close your eye, I want you to picture it. It's

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Speaker 1: late summer two thousand and seven. You're a freelance cameraman

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Speaker 1: in Fort Worth, Texas. You get work here and there

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Speaker 1: doing weddings and corporate shoots. You get a call from

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Speaker 1: Todd Davis, CEO of LifeLock, the company that you keep

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Speaker 1: seeing ads for. He wants to hire you for a project,

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Speaker 1: and you're pretty excited. This could be your big break

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Speaker 1: into commercial work. Davis is a little amped up, telling

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Speaker 1: you that this is a very important project and he

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Speaker 1: needs someone tough and willing to go the extra mile.

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Speaker 1: That's me. Someone with a good camera and some moxie.

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Speaker 1: That's you, Zaron. You tell Davis that you're his man

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Speaker 1: for this project, and you ask when and where? When

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Speaker 1: and where? He tells you that he'll send a van

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Speaker 1: to pick you up tomorrow morning. Next morning, you hear

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Speaker 1: a car horn two it outside. You head out to

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Speaker 1: the waiting van, and the man in the front seat

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Speaker 1: identifies himself as Todd Davis. He tells you to hop in.

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Speaker 1: You slide open the side door and climb inside. There's

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Speaker 1: another man in the back who introduces himself as mister

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Speaker 1: Davis's private investigator. The driver of the van pulls away

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Speaker 1: from the curb and heads across town. You try and

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Speaker 1: make small talk, but no one's biting. Davis just shuffles

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Speaker 1: through papers and a Manilla folder on his lap. You

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Speaker 1: drive through the city streets and into sleepy suburban neighborhoods.

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Speaker 1: The van pulls up in front of a modest house. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Davis says, as he turns in his seat and too

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Speaker 1: looking in the eyes. When we get inside, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you the signal and you start rolling. What's the signal,

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Speaker 1: you ask, I'll point to you. Got it. You figure

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Speaker 1: that this must be some sort of customer testimonial video.

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Speaker 1: You're pleased that the day is clear, so maybe you

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Speaker 1: can get nice outdoor shots later on, we'll see played

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Speaker 1: by air. I'm looking around from there's no big check.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's right. So you, Davis, and the

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Speaker 1: PI and the driver. You all make your way up

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Speaker 1: to the front door. Davis pounds on the door. Door

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Speaker 1: creaks open. There stands a man looking back at you

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Speaker 1: with wide eyes. Davis pushes his way in and you

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Speaker 1: all follow. This doesn't seem like a customer testimonials erin

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Speaker 1: with the resident now sitting at his own kitchen table.

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Speaker 1: Davis turns and gives you the signal. You start rolling.

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Speaker 1: Todd Davis starts yelling a lot. He's yelling at the

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Speaker 1: guy about some five hundred dollars loan he took out.

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Speaker 1: He's hollering at the man asking how he got some

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Speaker 1: cell phone number. The private eye is yelling tell him

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Speaker 1: the guy just to confess. You're starting to get uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: The yelling continues, with Davis absolutely browbeating the guy about

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Speaker 1: what you have deduced his identity theft man. You think

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Speaker 1: to yourself, this LifeLock is serious about protecting their cos

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00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 1: he's personally going after the scammer. This is wild. The

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Speaker 1: more details you hear, though, the more you realize that

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Speaker 1: the one who got scammed was Todd Davis. Davis pulls

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Speaker 1: some papers from inside that folder and slams him onto

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Speaker 1: the table. He tells the guy to sign the papers,

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Speaker 1: it's a confession. If he doesn't, Davis tells him the

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Speaker 1: cops are going to come and arrest him. The man

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Speaker 1: scans the papers and tries desperately to understand the situation.

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Speaker 1: You now, as you should feel like crap on the

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Speaker 1: bottom of a shoe that you're involved in this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Davis continues to brate the guy as he starts to

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Speaker 1: sign the confession. You get him, you get him signing

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Speaker 1: the paper on film, and then you shut it down.

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Speaker 1: That's it. Davis grabs the tape from your camera, triumphant.

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Speaker 1: He takes the signed confession and he heads to the van.

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Speaker 1: As the van cruises down the road, you realize that

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Speaker 1: you aren't heading towards your house. You pull into the

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Speaker 1: parking lot of a police station and Davis struts inside.

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Speaker 1: You slide open the van door, and you walk over

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Speaker 1: to a pay phone and call a cap. You want

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with any of this, so why didn't

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Speaker 1: they file charges? The private eye was the one who

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Speaker 1: found the suspect fort Worth PD. They were waiting on

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Speaker 1: records from AT and T that would confirm the IP

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Speaker 1: address that they had was linked to the suspect. Sergeant J. D.

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Speaker 1: Moore of the Major Case Unit told Davis to sit tight.

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Speaker 1: They get this guy. Davis is impatient. He went to

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Speaker 1: the house and he taped that confession only. The suspect

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Speaker 1: then told the police that he was totally coerced, and

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Speaker 1: the tape backed him up. Good job's Aaron. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was worried and we are filming something we should not

390
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: filming a cry exactly. So the charges are dropped because

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00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 1: Davis got his filthy mitzen. He defended the quality of

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Speaker 1: their service through it all, He said, quote, it was

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Speaker 1: not a failure on the part of LifeLock or the

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Speaker 1: fraud Alert system, because neither were ever given the chance

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Speaker 1: to succeed. The real problem is that there are companies

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Speaker 1: operating which are allowed to issue these loans without validating

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Speaker 1: an identity. That is a problem, he continued. The LifeLock

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Speaker 1: system did what it has always claimed it would in

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Speaker 1: support of any member and completely fixed the problems. I

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Speaker 1: was not out any money and my credit score was

401
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: not negatively impacted. To go one step further, as proof

402
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: that our system works, there have been at least eighty

403
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Speaker 1: seven other attempts to use my information since I began

404
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: providing my social Security number two years ago, but none

405
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Speaker 1: have been successful. None, right, so Davids. He later goes

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Speaker 1: on MSNBC and he claims that the five hundred dollar

407
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Speaker 1: phony loan was the only time that a thief had

408
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Speaker 1: ever been successful in stealing his identity. Survey says not true.

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Speaker 1: In October of two thousand and seven, someone in Georgia

410
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: opened an AT and T account in his name and

411
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 1: ran up two thousand, three hundred and ninety dollars in charges.

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Speaker 1: I love all these petty crimes that they're doing. Like

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Speaker 1: the guys like doing this big broad yeah, come and

414
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Speaker 1: get me. People were like, okay, will totally. No one's

415
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Speaker 1: going big on any of this. I mean maybe they

416
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: figure that'll get flagged if they go too big on.

417
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you could get away of

418
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: the madserati or two I guess, so really put your

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00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: back into it, or just like at least a luxury

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Speaker 1: shopping spy. Some watches exactly go on a test drive

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Speaker 1: and go, hey, you might getting out. I think I

422
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: ran over something. Can you check the tire? When he

423
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: gets out? Zoom awag. So this AT and T account, LifeLock,

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Speaker 1: he only found out about it be when it went

425
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: to collections. LifeLock didn't catch it. Now AT and T

426
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: will run a social Security number one kind of stuff.

427
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: There was also a Verizon account in New York that

428
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: had a one hundred and eighty six dollars tab. Once again,

429
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 1: they were like, I need a couple, I need a

430
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: new phone and a cover. They're like, okay, LifeLock, CEO,

431
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: it's on. You think it's better. A Texas utility bill

432
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: in his name for one hundred and twenty two dollars.

433
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: People were banking gas bills with a Credit one bank

434
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: debt for five hundred and seventy three dollars. Didn't even

435
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: buy like a college school billk. But here's these are

436
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: all separate. These are so multiple times people are successfully

437
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: getting his identity and then they're going, I'm gonna go

438
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: get some roll of stamps. He owed three hundred and

439
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: twelve dollars to Swiss Colony, which is a gift basket company.

440
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: Swiss Colony, they are about three hundred and twelve dollars

441
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: a gift basket. Hey, how much Dido pepperage farms? There

442
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: were credit accounts opened at USA Savings Bank and at

443
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: Gap Moving, but they had no balance even they didn't

444
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: even get either. They didn't get to atter. The people

445
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: were like, I'll just pay this one off MYSELFE me

446
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: a card. But now I can get the card. Great

447
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: building my credit guys. Oh no, it's not my social

448
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: scurity number. Um. In all, there were thirteen episodes of

449
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: identity theft for old Todd David were people are using

450
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: it to get jobs where they are doing like other

451
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: stuff like that. You're like, oh, yeah, here's you go,

452
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: here's my social Security number. Well, you know, you think

453
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: about it like a lot of undocumented Yeah, to provide it.

454
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: So Todd's she's just generating money all over the place.

455
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: Maybe that was his whole scam the whole time. It's

456
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: like I'll put it out there, people will use it.

457
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,719
Speaker 1: I will reach the tax benefits. So it was for

458
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: like three or two thousand and seven to twenty ten,

459
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: thirteen times they actually, you know, were successful thirteen times. Okay, thirteen,

460
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: it's distinct different times, Okay. Exactly twenty and ten was

461
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: the year that the FTC came calling. So all those

462
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: ads claiming that LifeLock was so effective against identity theft

463
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: that the CEO could go as far as putting his

464
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: social Security number out into the public. Those ads that

465
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: said the company could protect against such things as quote

466
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: ever happening to you, guaranteed, and that they worked to

467
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: stop identity theft before it happens, Well that's false. It's

468
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: been proven out, it's false thirteen times, and putting that

469
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: in an ad is against the law. Fraudulent. Yes, so

470
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: the La Times wrote, quote alluding to Davis's traveling social

471
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: security truck. Then FDC chair John Leeviovitz declared that quote,

472
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: while LifeLock promised consumers complete protection against all types of

473
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: identity theft, in truth, the protection it actually provided left

474
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: enough holes that you could drive a truck through it.

475
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: A truck and truck. It's a good metaphor. So the

476
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: FDC said that at least until September of two thousand

477
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: and seven, LifeLock had failed to provide quote reasonable and

478
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: appropriate security to prevent unauthorized access to personal information used

479
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: in its corporate network. So why Wilfred Brimley wouldn't be

480
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: involved with this? Would not I wouldn't let people be

481
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: involved with such a flyby to talk diabetes. Yeah, I'm

482
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: a trustworthy pitchman. I'm one of these guys like David

483
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: Strathorn over there. Well, who's the one who does the

484
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: reverse mortgage? Which one does? It? Doesn't he do? I

485
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: don't know. Jim Garner, James Garner did reverse mortgages. Maybe

486
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. Maybe it was a dream. Yes, of weird dreams.

487
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: So LifeLock was fined twelve million dollars. Eleven million of

488
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: that was to refund customers who'd use the service and

489
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: then provide consumer education. Apparently, the actual settlement was for

490
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: thirty five million dollars, but the FTC agreed to change

491
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: that amount based on Lifelock's liquid assets. Oh so they

492
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: didn't have much, but think about that. Okay, So remember

493
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: they were bought by Symantec in twenty seventeen for two

494
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: point three billion, but they couldn't even do a fine,

495
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, up to thirty five millions. I'm going to

496
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: say that that is what the kids call sus. It's

497
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: heavily sus. Yes, that is definitely like I am skeptical.

498
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: I am the skeptical. So the company was ordered to

499
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: be more truthful in its marketing and have better data security.

500
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: Davis was ordered to pay ten thousand dollars. Personally, you

501
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: know what they should have done. They should have made

502
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 1: them higher McAfee publicly, so it'd be like a whole

503
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: embarrassment if you really want to have McAfee saying that

504
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: he's keeping you safe. Well. The FTC also had a

505
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: separate settlement with Maynard, the other guy that the coupe.

506
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: He'd stepped down from his position all the way back

507
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, and he wasn't required to pay,

508
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: but there were limitations on that what he could do

509
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: in terms of work in data security and identity theft okay.

510
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: So in twenty fifteen, the FTC claimed that LifeLock violated

511
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: the terms of the settlement, specifically the requirement that it

512
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: better protect its consumers personal data. In October of twenty fifteen,

513
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: primary job the one thing you had one job. In

514
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: October of twenty fifteen, LifeLock and the FTC settled for

515
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: one hundred million sixty eight million, of which quote may

516
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: be used to redress fees paid to LifeLock by class

517
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: action consumers who were allegedly injured by the same behavior

518
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: alleged by the FTC. SO and then here's what the

519
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: La Times wrote in twenty fifteen. The value of many

520
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: LifeLock services and safeguards start to evaporate when you give

521
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: them some thought or read the fine print. Oh yeah, yeah,

522
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: like we don't do the very thing we say we do.

523
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: I'd be like if firefighters didn't show up at your house.

524
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: You're like, well, you know, the insurance had all these

525
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: exceptions of what could actually be covered us, like Florida

526
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: insurance companies. This is also from the La Times quote.

527
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: The guarantee chiefly covers the expenses of professionals such as lawyers, accountants,

528
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: and investigators the company might hire to help you with

529
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: your identity theft case, LifeLock will replace a handbag, purse,

530
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: or wallet's stolen as a result of identity theft, But

531
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: how often does ID theft lead to the loss of

532
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: a physical handbag. The guarantee might cover funds stolen from

533
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: a bank account via identity fraud, but in many cases

534
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: the bank would do so itself unless you can't document

535
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: that the loss is due to ID theft, in which

536
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: case LifeLock might not cover it either. Yeah, so they're

537
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: basically saying we're kind of riding the banks cotail you

538
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: can pay us to Exactly. We're not done here though.

539
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: I mentioned Robert Maynard and that ft S coup right, Yeah,

540
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: he has a whole other story. Oh really, when we

541
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: get back from this break, I'm going to tell you

542
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: about the mysterious mister Maynard. Hey, Aaron Elizabeth, welcome to

543
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: my crime dojo. It's nice. It's kind of steamy in here.

544
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: I like what you've done with the carpeting. Thank you.

545
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: That's shag Hey. By the way, every time you say coup,

546
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of Boots Riley and the band the Coup.

547
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: So I'm like, that is not at allways think a

548
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: movie coming out. It's really good. Anyway, Crime Dojo, here

549
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: we are. So I told you that Robert Maynard started

550
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: LifeLock with Todd Davis and acted as the Coup before that.

551
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: In the early nineties, Maynard founded a company called the

552
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: National Credit Foundation Incorporated. These names are always like intended

553
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: for you not to be able to parse them out there,

554
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: sounds like a million other things. Exactly. It's like, yeah,

555
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm over here with the others. So it

556
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: was a credit repair business, as they say, so only

557
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: a few months in it was investigated by state and

558
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: federal authorities who were cracking down on so called credit

559
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: repair companies. For one, it was not actually a foundation,

560
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: which implies nonprofit status, and it could also not actually

561
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: fulfill its claim of helping quote anyone legally obtain good

562
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: credit can't do it so, and it had not followed

563
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: state law filing various like necessary notifications and such. In

564
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, the FTC charged National Credit Foundation, Incorporated

565
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: with misleading customers when it claimed it could erase bad

566
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: credit caused by bank or filings. It also accused Maynard

567
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: and other executives of making unauthorized withdrawals from various customer

568
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: checking and debit accounts, wait from the customers accounts, not

569
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: from the actual company's accounts. And they're not like, oh,

570
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: dipping in the company. Most of the withdrawals were around

571
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: like three hundred dollars each. So they're doing the same

572
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: thing ATM money right there. Yes, that's like the cap

573
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: on a lot of ATM accounts. They're doing the same

574
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: thing as as the bad criminals. But the five hundred

575
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: dollars to pay the gas bill, they're like, oh, I'll

576
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: use this to pay some parking tickets. So Maynards settled

577
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: without admitting any wrongdoing and without being required to pay

578
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: redress because he wears a tie. I guess the deal here.

579
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: As part of the settlement, he agreed to be barred

580
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: from quote advertising, promoting, offering for sale, selling, performing, or

581
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: distributing any product or service relating to credit improvement services. Now,

582
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this breaks my steel, big steel, little

583
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: argument about America. This is more like steel. Little bit,

584
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: wear a tie, wear a suit or some shoes that

585
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: needed has that he's hard from that, right? But then

586
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: how could he work at LifeLock because it offered credit

587
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: protection not credit improvements? He was very careful with the

588
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: language there. So Maynard, he had a company called dot

589
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: safe for a while and Phoenix that folded in two

590
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: thousand and one. I have no idea what why not

591
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three Safe Repair. In two thousand

592
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: and three, he spent twelve days in jail for defrauding

593
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: on a sixteen thousand dollars loan from the Mirage Casino

594
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. He later used this story to say

595
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: that that's what inspired him to start LifeLock, because he

596
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: claimed that actually his identity had been stolen and that

597
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: someone had illegally taken out the loan in his name,

598
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I was not even

599
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: in Vegas when the loan was made. And one of

600
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: the men who stole his identity and the money is

601
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: now in jail for an unrelated murder. Right, this one

602
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: up with. He's totally amping. However, the Phoenix New Times

603
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: field that that was not accurate. The Mirage had a

604
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: copy of Maynard's Arizona driver's license on file attached to

605
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: the casino marker. They had a picture of him signing.

606
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: They had if you think that getting a credit card

607
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: is hard, like those casinos don't let a penny slip

608
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: through their fingers like they are. Yeah, they're they love documentation.

609
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: If you're going to do money exchanges, they're like, Okay,

610
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: here's the time, here's the date, here's what you were wearing. Right, So,

611
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: m Maynard. The reason why he avoided criminal charges it

612
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: was because in Nevada has a program that gives people

613
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: a second chance to pay their debts. So when he

614
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: got busted on he's like, all right, final pay it.

615
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: According to the Clark County DA's office, where Las Vegas

616
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: is located, Maynard had never filed a police report for

617
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: identity theft, which would have been standard practice if that

618
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: had actually happened. He goes on to found LifeLock in

619
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Do you know what else happened

620
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, I do not. American Express

621
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: sued Maynard's father, Robert Maynard Senior, a Phoenix area I doctor,

622
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: for one hundred and fifty four thousand in unpaid bills.

623
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,479
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah, was he running his practice with his car? Well?

624
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: Maynard Senior denied the claims city never ordered the car. Oh,

625
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: of course, it was rumored. It was rumored that Maynard

626
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: Junior may have stolen his own father's identity to get

627
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: a card, and that's what inspired me to protect others

628
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: from identity like, well, wait a second, doesn't he didn't

629
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: give a cops subscription to LifeLock to his dad. So

630
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: when AMEX looked into the issue, it found that someone

631
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: with Maynard Senior's details had ordered the card, but that

632
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: the bills went to a company called net Shield, and

633
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: net Shield's address was in Phoenix, and it happened to

634
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: be the same address as Maynard Junior's then company thought Safe. No,

635
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: I am shocked yeah. Maynard Senior eventually settled with AMEX.

636
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: When asked by The New Times in two thousand and

637
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: seven if his son had stolen his identity, doctor Maynard said, quote,

638
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: can't disagree with that. Wow. Yeah, and at that time

639
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: Desert Breeziness. Well at that time father and son hadn't

640
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: spoken for two years. I was guessing this, yeah, just

641
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 1: on the tone, I know. However, in two thousand and nine,

642
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: when asked about it again, Maynard Senior said that actually

643
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: he and his son had opened the card together, so

644
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: you got to protect your kids or the sun was

645
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: now making good money. And he was like, look, I've

646
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: changed my story. I think, well you'll see. I think

647
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: that his father softened up. Okay. Two thousand and five

648
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: was a big year, right. It was also the year

649
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: that Maynard Junior declared bankruptcy. Among the debts was one

650
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy thousand dollars owed to AMEX on his

651
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: own card, but Maynard Senior was listed as a codebter.

652
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: He also listed ten thousand dollars owed to a former girlfriend,

653
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: twenty four thousand dollars to his children's private school, and

654
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: various debts to other friends business partners, credit card companies,

655
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Library. He said that he only had twenty

656
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: bucks in cash and fifteen dollars in the bank at

657
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: the time it was bankruptcy. So remember two thousand and

658
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: five was the year that LifeLock started offering its services

659
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: to the public. Was a big year. There's a lot

660
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: going on. Maynard left the company in two thousand and seven.

661
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: Remember why did he leave his dad? Well, no, he

662
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: resigned following a Phoenix New Phoenix New Times just doing

663
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: a bang up job here. They wrote an article that

664
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: uncovered previous business and financial improprieties. He remained a ten

665
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: percent shareholder and a private marketing consultant to the company,

666
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: and then he cashed out his shares and he made

667
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: millions on it. After leaving LifeLock, Maynard moved to Hawaii

668
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. He started a company called

669
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: can Do Island Ka n d Oo. It's an ocean

670
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: adventure business Saron and they offered sailing, jet skiing, scuba diving, parasailing,

671
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: other water sports for tourists. So he's a cruise director

672
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: without a cruise Well. Company launched in August of two

673
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: thousand and nine and for two weeks took customers out

674
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: on a catamaran that it had outfitted UM but it

675
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: couldn't make its insurance premium payments, and then it went under. Okay,

676
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: and the employees last paychecks bounced. How much? How much

677
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: did Maynard spend on this business? Uh? Fifteen dollars? Well,

678
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: how much you have in his bank account? He spent

679
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: nine million dollars? What on this business? How? I don't

680
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: know the money he had a standing army of catamarans?

681
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: Was he buying just like advertise? Okay? What a lot

682
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: of banana boat? The sun block going on? Um? In

683
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Maynard and his wife declared bankruptcy again. Of course, listen,

684
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,479
Speaker 1: he had it. He said his debt was between ten

685
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars somewhere in there. I don't know. Well,

686
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: I think it's on the bankruptcy schedule where you get

687
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: to you check off. So this included the boat companies

688
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: and the lenders for Cande Island umard. Sounds pretty out there.

689
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: And no one, no one, not even he pointed to

690
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: any condition that could have caused this behavior. Until twenty nineteen,

691
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: Maynard gave an interview, and he said that the unpaid

692
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: casino debt had stemmed from a gambling spree. He went

693
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: on after an unsuccessful quote electro convulsive therapy to treat

694
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: his depression. Wait like electric shock? Yeah, I had ECT. Yeah,

695
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 1: he says. It gave him man expells and memory loss. Wow,

696
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: he said. Quote. One of the primary side effects of

697
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: ECT is something called retrograde amnesia, basically short term memory

698
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: loss of events leading up to and during treatment. I

699
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: went to Las Vegas and took out a marker from

700
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: the mirage, and I did not pay it back because

701
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: I was in treatment at the time. I have no

702
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: memory of this episode. When I was arrested, I thought

703
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: my identity had been stolen, which had happened to me before.

704
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: I'm now convinced that I did it. I paid the

705
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: marker and all charges were dropped. I don't know about

706
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But someone in my life who they

707
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: had electro shock therapy and they don't remember I know

708
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 1: exactly the years I was in their life at the time.

709
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: They don't remember much of that time except for some

710
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: memories that I'm in and they tell me to help

711
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: them with their memory, and it doesn't work. Like he's describing,

712
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: and not at all. It's not like, oh, I have

713
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: this ambient memory. It's like I can't remember what I

714
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: did yesterday when I got all that money. It's not

715
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: like that. Well, like, I won't speculate on anyone's mental state,

716
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: particularly because I believe we're all hanging on by a

717
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: thread and one click away from losing it. Maybe that's

718
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: just me. I've dealt I've dealt with depression and anxiety,

719
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: and you know that what's really exhausting about it keeping

720
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: other people from knowing. That's like the most exhausting part.

721
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: So I buy that he was having manic episodes. Yeah,

722
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm not questioning them, But where he's extending it is

723
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: where I question It's. Yeah. Well. In August twenty twenty

724
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: Maynards self published a book called One Step Dude, My

725
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: Continuing Journey from unf Wow, which, among other things, discusses

726
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: his struggles with mental illness. Okay, so here's the synopsis

727
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: for the book. It may not look like it at

728
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 1: first glance, but I am one up dude. I've started

729
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 1: multiple businesses. Two have made billions. That's in all caps.

730
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: I have made two multimillion dollar fortunes. I am a marine.

731
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: I made it through college in two years, top of

732
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: my class. I'm bipolar. Although it's difficult, it's also my

733
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: secret weapon because I think differently than most people. I'm

734
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: a best selling author and popular speaker. My kids and

735
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: grandkids are healthy. I'm loved by a woman whose grace

736
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: borders on holiness. I have everything. Sounds great, right, There's more.

737
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: I lie as easily as I breathe. Those fortunes I

738
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: made blew them both. I ended up on food stamps

739
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: and Medicaid between them. I've gone bankrupt three times. I've

740
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: gone through three marriages. I self destruct on a regular basis.

741
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: People love me. The more they love me, the more

742
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: I hurt them. I am a victim and a survivor

743
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: of the worst kinds of abuse, and now I am

744
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: an abuser. I have many quote unquote friends, not one

745
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: of them truly knows me. I have nothing when I

746
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: started this book in January of twenty twenty. This is

747
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: where I was. My most recent business is being sold

748
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: for parts, and my reputation is ruined. I'm about to

749
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: be crucified for my failure in the local tabloid. I

750
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: drive a one hundred thousand dollars car. I live in

751
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: a five thousand dollars per month apartment. I have three

752
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: dollars and forty seven cents in my checking account. I've

753
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: just spent weeks in psychiatric hospitals because I was suicidal.

754
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: I can bench press thirty pounds after five minutes of aerobics.

755
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: I'm totally gassed. I just learned that I have cluster

756
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 1: B personality disorder. Never heard of it. Mean either it's bad,

757
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: but it was the key, see what I mean, totally

758
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: picked up. I decided that at fifty seven, it was

759
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: time to start getting want to know more. Read the book.

760
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: This is to sell a book is to sell. All

761
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: of that was an advertisement. It makes me want to

762
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: spend my money on something that was one of the

763
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: most amazingly honest tell me a book was self published

764
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: without telling me a book was self Wow. I mean

765
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: like it vascillated between like the steward smally I'm good enough,

766
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm smart enough, and dog on it people like me,

767
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 1: And then if you saw the other side of the mirror,

768
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: whe it's like and also you have at three dollars

769
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: and you're like, WHOA. I have a number of people

770
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: in my life, close friends and family who are bipolar.

771
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: Oh same. And I have to say this reads very

772
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: much like some something that they would write on a

773
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: manic um. So I wish him the best, huish him

774
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: the best. Um. I you know, his illness may have

775
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: driven his actions, but that doesn't make them any less ridiculous,

776
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: and that, you know, so um And I feel like

777
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: he would agree. I think so he kind of he says,

778
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: he just basically said, Elizabeth, ridiculous. So Zarin, what's your

779
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: ridiculous takeaway? Wow, that LifeLock is exactly what I thought

780
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: it was. And like, I don't like to be right

781
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: about these things, but I'm like that that's not something

782
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: I need in my life. And I was like, no,

783
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: that's not something anyone needs in their life. No, you've

784
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: got your life onlock. What's your ridiculous takeaway? And again

785
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: I think that stuff like LifeLock, it preys on our

786
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: fear of I mean, people who have their identities stolen.

787
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: It's such a nightmare to get all of that unraveled

788
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: and to prove up that no, those credit cards but

789
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: yours and all the kind of stuff. And because we

790
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: were saying, like, your credit score is so tied to

791
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: so many things that if it gets damaged, then it

792
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: ruins all sorts of other things in your life. I

793
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: think though, you know, the other thing are like um

794
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: malware protection, Like you know, I won't name names on

795
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: any of those companies, but the ones you know to

796
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: get keep your computer safe, Yeah, those are a total racket.

797
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: Like I had one for a while that when it expires,

798
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: it like locks out all your computer and it fights

799
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: with other programs. Yeah. So's it's a waste of time

800
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: and astortion. Like if a mafia member did that, that

801
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: would be called they came in and said they got

802
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: a nice business year to be ashamednything happened to cancel.

803
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff is insane. So you know, we

804
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: we all have talked many times on this show about

805
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: fear and how that drives people's motivations and you can

806
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: make anyone do anything basic trade. Yeah, so you know,

807
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: we can sign up for all of these supposed consumer

808
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: protection things out of fear. You don't want your computer hacked,

809
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: you don't want you know, your identity stolen. But it's

810
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: a racket in and of itself, and who's protecting you

811
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: from lifelong exactly because they're out there dipping into people's

812
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: bank accounts getting at three and I'm not saying this

813
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: about current Norton LifeLock and casting aspersions and just you know,

814
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: yes we all knows, don't sume me Norton lifelong. Well

815
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: that was a very interesting because, like you know, I

816
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: don't do anything in this world. I know nothing about

817
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: this world. So it's fascinating to know. I'm glad that

818
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about this. You're pretty close to

819
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: off the grid, i'd say, trying. That's all I have.

820
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: You can find us online at Ridiculous Crime on both

821
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: Twitter for the talking Instagram for the cokin email us.

822
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: If you want at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com,

823
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: download the iheartapp, weave us a talkback, sing me a

824
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: little song, and then download the iHeart Hat. I Dare You,

825
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: I Dare You? Download the iHeart Hat and where proudly

826
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: tune in next time. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth

827
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: Dutton and Zaron Burnett, produced and edited by Dave Kuston,

828
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: whose social Security number is six six six four two

829
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: three five four nine. Research is by FTC Special Investigator

830
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 1: Marissa Brown and Credit Approval Supervisor Andrea Song sharpen Tier.

831
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: The theme song is by Thomas Sure that's my credit card,

832
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: Lee and Travis, Oh yeah, that's my home address. Dutton.

833
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Swiss Colony salesman Ben Bolan and Noel Brown.

834
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: QUI say it one more time, We dequis quirre Ridiculous

835
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 1: Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts to

836
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

837
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.