Speaker 1: Colson Media. Hello, everyone, it's me James Today. I am
Speaker 1: back from my trip to Kurdistan and I'm talking today
Speaker 1: with Rania Hayat, a name that I've probably just but shered.
Speaker 1: But Ranier is the communications officer for the Palestinian Journalist Syndicate.
Speaker 1: And we're very, very lucky to have Ronnie talking to us.
Speaker 2: Welcome Renie, thank you, Jams, thank you for contacting me
Speaker 2: and letting me be letting me with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you're very welcome. So I think Rania,
Speaker 1: it's it's been a really hard time to consume news.
Speaker 1: For the first week of what's happening. I was in
Speaker 1: mostly Syrian and Iraqi Kurtistan, and I wasn't maybe consuming
Speaker 1: as much news so I normally do, because I was
Speaker 1: trying to write news in today Uh. And then I
Speaker 1: got back there just the the barers you, information and
Speaker 1: disinformation has been very hard for people to sort of
Speaker 1: wade through, and I wonder I think one of the
Speaker 1: things I'd like us to focus on first and foremost
Speaker 1: is the impact of Israel's bombing campaign on journalists, specifically
Speaker 1: working in Gaza. I know, like friends of mine are
Speaker 1: journalists in Gaza. We featured on this podcast before the
Speaker 1: people of Parkour, Gaza, and I know that many journalists
Speaker 1: have lost their lives covering what's been happening. So can
Speaker 1: you explain a little bit about what's been happening and
Speaker 1: maybe bring us up to date on the amount of
Speaker 1: every loss is a tragedy, but like the amount of
Speaker 1: people who have lost their lives covering this.
Speaker 2: Yes, James, well, let's start that journalists and Gaza are
Speaker 2: civilians who are people who travel. They work, They should travel,
Speaker 2: but they work, They do their job. They try to
Speaker 2: cover the news with very hard conditions with the daily
Speaker 2: life of Gaza. Since the beginning of the war against
Speaker 2: Gas on the seventh of October, you know how the
Speaker 2: war started targeting everything in Gaza, not even all the people,
Speaker 2: more than the people, you know, the buildings, the children,
Speaker 2: even the animals, the plants, you know, just bombing and
Speaker 2: bombing and bombing strikes the whole time. At the beginning,
Speaker 2: we try to we have some our contacts with journalists
Speaker 2: in Gaza, we have our General Secretaria member and so
Speaker 2: we try to get information from them. At the beginning, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was not easy, but it was okay to get
Speaker 2: some information about what's going on. But by the time
Speaker 2: now we reached to a place that when I call them,
Speaker 2: they always tell dozens of we don't know. We are disconnected.
Speaker 2: I'm homeless. Now, I am not able to get any news.
Speaker 2: I can't tell you about my friend or my neighbor
Speaker 2: next to me, but I'm not able to tell you
Speaker 2: about further than this. I will just give some statistics.
Speaker 2: Up to now, we have eighteen killed journalists who have
Speaker 2: been either killed while try covering, others were killed in
Speaker 2: their homes, being through air strikes with their families and
Speaker 2: so on. We have also many many journalists who have
Speaker 2: dozens of them have been injured. I'm really sorry. I
Speaker 2: was I wanted to have some you know, I curate statistics,
Speaker 2: but I can't give you until now. We are now
Speaker 2: trying trying to develop like a tool to get some statistics,
Speaker 2: but until now it's not working well. And we have
Speaker 2: many journalists who lost their homes, homes because it was
Speaker 2: bomb bombed or yeah, airstract others they were in this place, yeah,
Speaker 2: and many of them moves from their homes either because
Speaker 2: their homes was bombed or other because they were threatened
Speaker 2: to stay at their home safely, so they go to
Speaker 2: other like schools, hospitals and so on. The most tragic
Speaker 2: is the journalists who are losing their families. When you
Speaker 2: call a journalist to ask him about any thing, they
Speaker 2: told you Okay, I lost my son, I lost my wife,
Speaker 2: I lost all my family, I lost my mother. Now
Speaker 2: they are they are completely broken. You can't talk to them.
Speaker 2: They are you know, it's really very tragic situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's literally unimaginable, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I've attended wars, I've lost friends, but nothing.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it's like on this scale. And
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking to even think about it. And I think
Speaker 1: some of what you said obviously, like part of the
Speaker 1: situation this creates is that it's very hard to do
Speaker 1: reporting on the ground. It's always been hard to do
Speaker 1: reporting on the ground at Gaza. I have made plans
Speaker 1: to go to Gaza, which probably won't work out now,
Speaker 1: but it's hard foreign press, and of course there are
Speaker 1: many very capable journalists within Ghas that we don't need
Speaker 1: foreign press to go then necessarily. But can you explain
Speaker 1: a little bit of how when this war started, it
Speaker 1: didn't just like affect these people in terms of killing them,
Speaker 1: killing their families, displacing them, detroying their homes. But also
Speaker 1: like every day this war goes on, it gets harder
Speaker 1: for us to see I think the impact of this
Speaker 1: war on civilians living in Gaza, right because of the
Speaker 1: image to infrastructure.
Speaker 3: Is that fair to say, yes, this is what's going on,
Speaker 3: and yes, reporting is getting more and more complicated because
Speaker 3: as also you know, there is no electricity.
Speaker 2: Communication is very very difficult when sometimes through phone call
Speaker 2: I call them just to get something, they tell me, okay,
Speaker 2: wait until I get some internet and I will get.
Speaker 1: Back to you.
Speaker 2: I wait for hours and hours, sometimes for the second
Speaker 2: day to get a little information. So you can imagine
Speaker 2: how they can even contact with each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, that makes it very hard. I think
Speaker 1: often like we might have more info. This is not
Speaker 1: uncommon actually, like you have more information sitting somewhere with
Speaker 1: a broad bank connection and access to Twitter than you
Speaker 1: do on the ground, right, Like they may not know
Speaker 1: everything that's happening.
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know if I can talk about this,
Speaker 2: but you know about the restrictions that on all social
Speaker 2: media applications, the restrictions on the Palestinian contract content on
Speaker 2: the social media. We're facing a big massive wave against
Speaker 2: our content, was against our news through Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 2: all those applications. So we are not able even to
Speaker 2: reach many people are banned, many people are hanged, and
Speaker 2: we are just hearing about the banning of many accounts
Speaker 2: of Palestinians. The very limited reach the very limited, and
Speaker 2: there are sometimes many times they are blocked or yeah,
Speaker 2: blocked or from posting and so on. So even also
Speaker 2: this is another problem that we are facing to reach out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is in a sense obviously, like
Speaker 1: it's in terms of specifically getting information about because I
Speaker 1: think that is important. I think if people could understand
Speaker 1: what it's like to see someone lose their baby, and
Speaker 1: then I think very few people would be able to
Speaker 1: in good conscious support that. And the fact that this
Speaker 1: has come at a time when I think generally, certainly
Speaker 1: for the US, reporting on things outside the US is
Speaker 1: an all time low, like it's atrocious, and so people
Speaker 1: lack the context to understand, not through any fault of
Speaker 1: their own right, but they've just been fed terrible you know,
Speaker 1: opinion pieces for the last few years. They lack the
Speaker 1: context to understand why what's happening is happening. And I
Speaker 1: think obviously Elon Muskusport, Twitter and and just it's accessible.
Speaker 1: It's terrible, it's full of false information. And as you say,
Speaker 1: often videos that I have friends who are photographers in Gaza,
Speaker 1: a friends who are just people in Gaza, and videos
Speaker 1: that they post be taken down. It's sometimes they're to
Speaker 1: say it's too graphic, it's too violent, but like also
Speaker 1: that's their everyday life. Now that's been happening for two weeks. This, Yeah,
Speaker 1: graphic violence is sadly what's visited upon them every day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, believe me, what's going on in Gaza is
Speaker 2: very You can't image, you can't hold it when you
Speaker 2: when you watch it. Even the TV channels they try
Speaker 2: to make to minimize how dangerous and how violent are
Speaker 2: the scenes that we see. At the same time, I
Speaker 2: had a discussion this morning, I don't want people to
Speaker 2: cry for us, it's not I don't want people to
Speaker 2: cry for the babies killed, and so with very hard
Speaker 2: pictures and videos, I just want the humanity without seeing
Speaker 2: the video just here that there is a charge it's
Speaker 2: loading child children. Thousands of children are losing their child's
Speaker 2: life or nothing. Are losing their hands, their legs, they
Speaker 2: are now handicapped. They don't know why. You know, we
Speaker 2: don't need to see the video, just know that this
Speaker 2: is going on. We don't want to make a tragedy.
Speaker 2: We don't want to to people to cry with us
Speaker 2: when we cry. Yes, we want, okay, some solidarity, but
Speaker 2: it's not something to have the emotions and then then
Speaker 2: we sleep and then we wake up. That's what Or no, no,
Speaker 2: there is something going on. We don't need the sympath
Speaker 2: you know, we need some actions, we need steps, we
Speaker 2: need humanity now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think that's an excellent, really really excellent point.
Speaker 1: Like it's not a film or like something you can
Speaker 1: consume and then step away from. So what sort of
Speaker 1: solidarity actions can people take to support people in gather,
Speaker 1: to support journalists there, to support the greater cause of
Speaker 1: not having this issue where every few years thousands of
Speaker 1: Palestinian civilians get killed.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, to be honest, we want when we want
Speaker 2: to feel better, we turn on the television to see
Speaker 2: the demonstrations. When we see the demonstrations London, blocks, cell
Speaker 2: the United States and different cities Arab world everywhere. When
Speaker 2: we see these demonstrations, we feel that somebody knows there
Speaker 2: is like a kind of movement. This helps us, and
Speaker 2: we need further steps after the demonstration. We need lobbying.
Speaker 2: We need the people who elect their governments who support
Speaker 2: those massacs and to say no, we give you leg
Speaker 2: legitimacy to be human. Stop this inhumanity. We need the
Speaker 2: people to lobby on their governments that this should not
Speaker 2: be supported. This is this is the real action that
Speaker 2: we need. Lobbying, lobbying, lobbying by the people, by the
Speaker 2: power of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's one of those things, like some
Speaker 1: things will never change in America, at least not by voting,
Speaker 1: but like some things, yeah, if enough people and I
Speaker 1: think more people, Like I remember when I moved to
Speaker 1: America fifteen years ago, when I was young as twenty one,
Speaker 1: and I came into America and I had a free Palestine,
Speaker 1: like a badge on my jacket like to sew things
Speaker 1: on my jacket, you know, and they sent me straight
Speaker 1: to the secondary you know, like they're like where they
Speaker 1: pat you down and take off your clothes and go
Speaker 1: through your bags and stuch, and like it just wasn't
Speaker 1: as big of a concern I think more people in
Speaker 1: the fifteen years since then have become aware of the
Speaker 1: tragedy and the loss of life. And certainly now I've
Speaker 1: seen more people wake up to what's happening and like
Speaker 1: protest or you know, get out and do things in
Speaker 1: a way that they wouldn't have done ten years ago.
Speaker 1: And I think that's really it's good, Like hopefully that
Speaker 1: demand for people to be allowed to live with dignity
Speaker 1: and safety continues.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I just always want to ask anybody
Speaker 2: you'd like to say, are you going? Are you happy
Speaker 2: to pay your tax for killing others?
Speaker 1: Is it Jesus?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the very initial, very first question. Are
Speaker 2: you happy with this? Do you pay your tax for
Speaker 2: this or for anything that you like to have your
Speaker 2: tax to be paid for? Yeah, this is what we want.
Speaker 2: We are facing killing, we are facing assassination and bombarding
Speaker 2: and so on, and we need all What we need
Speaker 2: is humanity, nothing else.
Speaker 1: I was thinking this morning of like, how very obviously
Speaker 1: right when when Russia bombed Ukrainian cities, most people said
Speaker 1: we should help the Ukrainians, send them moms, send them
Speaker 1: medical supplies, and some of them went and volunteered to
Speaker 1: fight the Ukrainians when and I understand that like this
Speaker 1: obviously this this conflict began in very different circumstances other
Speaker 1: than the Russia Ukraine conflict, but nonetheless, like little children
Speaker 1: are being killed and continue to be killed, and the
Speaker 1: response wasn't the same. And I think some of that
Speaker 1: comes from like and not particularly hard to see orientalism
Speaker 1: in the US and the US media. Also some of
Speaker 1: it comes from the complete absence of Palestinian voices in
Speaker 1: certainly in like the English language press in America. And
Speaker 1: I wonder, like I know that there are certain organizations
Speaker 1: which have specifically worked to make it harder for Palestinian journalists,
Speaker 1: like my friend Hassam Salem. He's an excellent photographer. You
Speaker 1: can find him on all the places where you find
Speaker 1: people on the internet. But we worked on stories together,
Speaker 1: and I know he's now had he's lost contract with
Speaker 1: major outlets because of this sort of campaign of accusing
Speaker 1: him of bias. I think it's hard not to be
Speaker 1: biased when you see little children die. But I wonder
Speaker 1: if you could talk about that, like how Palestinian voices
Speaker 1: are excluded or missing from what even now right the
Speaker 1: Atlantic since two weeks of bombing now and I was
Speaker 1: looking this morning and they've managed to find two Palestinian
Speaker 1: voices to share. Like, you know, it's maybe not. I'll
Speaker 1: have to check that after we've done. But I was
Speaker 1: flicking through these big sort of opinion piece type outlets
Speaker 1: and it's very clear that like even now, people haven't
Speaker 1: like editors specifically, or the greater press has not stopped
Speaker 1: excluding Palestinian voices. So maybe we could talk about like
Speaker 1: how that happens, what allows that to happen, and what
Speaker 1: people can do to help lift up those voices.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, Perastilian voices are being banned all over by
Speaker 2: different movements. There are many times fired from their works
Speaker 2: and big news outlets and the media outlets for different
Speaker 2: political reasons. And if you want to go and through
Speaker 2: the stories, you find that some people are just trying
Speaker 2: to make to make problems for those people to let
Speaker 2: them leave their work and stop writing or telling the
Speaker 2: news or analyzing or anything about the Peristinian cause and
Speaker 2: what's going on. We're facing this globally, and we have
Speaker 2: many cases recorded and undocumented in the pgs, and we
Speaker 2: can give you many examples about them. But I have
Speaker 2: to tell about something that we're a member of the
Speaker 2: International Federation of Journalists. And we have also even our
Speaker 2: president of Pilian Peristinian Journalist Syndicate. He's a vice president
Speaker 2: of the International Federation of Journalist. He has been elected
Speaker 2: last year in the last congress. We have sister unions.
Speaker 2: One of them one of the best friends of us
Speaker 2: are the National Writers Union, the American National Writers Union,
Speaker 2: which is a very big supporter to us. They even
Speaker 2: very got better. The general secretary even he visited us
Speaker 2: in Palestine a few months ago, and he's a very
Speaker 2: supporter of what's going on, of all our statements, of
Speaker 2: our news at the beginning of the world they produced
Speaker 2: like a statement about biosity and misleading news and so on,
Speaker 2: how to avoid them supporting the Palestinians, supporting our life,
Speaker 2: our right to life, and so on. So we we
Speaker 2: highly appreciate this movement. Of course, he's not the only one.
Speaker 2: Many many syndicates, many unions all over the world sent
Speaker 2: us solidarity letters. Some of them supported us even with
Speaker 2: some in kind contribution, with some funds in addition to solidarity,
Speaker 2: in addition to demonstrations and so on, which really gave
Speaker 2: us a lot of power of hope. So we can
Speaker 2: continue and we are not alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really powerful. Yeah. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it's not enough, but it's something that unions. I think
Speaker 1: people also, if they're members of the union, can encourage
Speaker 1: their union to do that, right, just to make a statement, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just to show some solidarity. I wonder like what you
Speaker 1: talked about in kind donations, and you talked about the
Speaker 1: support you're getting from unions. I know one unions which
Speaker 1: i'm a member, that's your Workers of the World FJAU
Speaker 1: just did a fundraiser or still doing a fundraiser for
Speaker 1: flag vests and bullet profess for journalists. What kind of
Speaker 1: support can people give, like in a concrete sense, beyond
Speaker 1: getting in the streets and protesting and writing letters and
Speaker 1: emails and phone calls. It's the stuff that they can
Speaker 1: do with their money, if they have some money.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not a kind of money, it's a kind
Speaker 2: of I will tell you now, the situation in Gaza,
Speaker 2: we can't or what we do we need is a ceasfire,
Speaker 2: to be honest, they even don't have fresh water they
Speaker 2: drink by the way, and they say try to minimize that.
Speaker 2: The water they drink, and they know that the water
Speaker 2: they drink is not very clean, but just to survive.
Speaker 2: So you can start with this very basic need of
Speaker 2: life and then you go further. As I already told
Speaker 2: you that the safety vests are very important, but when
Speaker 2: you are under strikes, this will never help you. But
Speaker 2: if I want to talk about the daily life, about
Speaker 2: how it's going and the West Bank and Gaza, our journalists,
Speaker 2: we all work under the same conditions of aggress the events,
Speaker 2: covering aggressive events and so on. So we try as
Speaker 2: pg US to to contact all the media outlets and
Speaker 2: Palestine to offer or provide safety kits for all journals
Speaker 2: to work in the field. But for example our freelancers,
Speaker 2: they work on their on responsibility and a very dangerous situation.
Speaker 2: We try to to to tell how dangerous that what
Speaker 2: they do when you go to cover with you don't
Speaker 2: have very full safety kits or it's it's very dangerous
Speaker 2: for them, but they are not able to cover it
Speaker 2: and they want to they need to work, they need
Speaker 2: to do their job, so they do it in a
Speaker 2: very strained, sory, dangerous conditions. So one of the things
Speaker 2: that we can support unless yes, safety kets, which are
Speaker 2: very important. Medical kids also are very important. What what
Speaker 2: else we try we try to to do. Also, we
Speaker 2: try to raise the awareness to make some materials for
Speaker 2: the journals about safety. Safety is very important for us.
Speaker 2: We try to teach them more about how to take
Speaker 2: care of themselves, how to report and so on, about
Speaker 2: their security and so on. This is mainly what I
Speaker 2: can talk about for for the needs or the inkind contribution.
Speaker 2: As I told you, in the current situation, for example,
Speaker 2: we try to support through some donations, through support to
Speaker 2: support the journalists with better charging. Better is because of
Speaker 2: the lack of electricity and power sources in Gaza, so
Speaker 2: just to give them connected currently they are very useful
Speaker 2: for them and it helps.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see. It's probably best that you
Speaker 1: guys just have money and then you can be flexible
Speaker 1: in getting what people need. I think that's generally the
Speaker 1: best advice. It's when there's a crisis, is to send
Speaker 1: the people nearest to it money and then they can
Speaker 1: decide what they need. I certainly I found that. I
Speaker 1: found that in a lot of places I worked. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you talked about the power situation. I think that's
Speaker 1: sort of it has gone relatively unreported. I mean, it'll
Speaker 1: still say, like the power and water have been cut off,
Speaker 1: but that creates a lot of other dangerous situations, right
Speaker 1: Like obviously some people rely on that power if they're infirm,
Speaker 1: if they have medical devices, that kind of thing. But
Speaker 1: also like where there are places to charge, that results
Speaker 1: in a very high concentration of people. Right Like my
Speaker 1: friend was telling me that their parents were in a
Speaker 1: hospital to charge their their devices. Right They wanted to
Speaker 1: call their child and say we're safe, we're alive, but
Speaker 1: their phone had run out of batteries, so they had
Speaker 1: to go to the hospit. Yeah, can you explain a
Speaker 1: little bit of some of the things that like that
Speaker 1: that has resulted in the loss of power for people.
Speaker 2: Yes, of course. For example, first of all, let me
Speaker 2: tell you that we already asked quested all our journalists
Speaker 2: in Gaza to be in the hospitals for their safety.
Speaker 2: We try, we expect that it would be a pleas
Speaker 2: safe place, but there is no safe plessing as now
Speaker 2: as you already know about the hospitals that have been targeted.
Speaker 2: But we already asked them to be in the hospitals.
Speaker 2: We try to make some press zones and the hospitals
Speaker 2: in some places whereas for press, for journalists to be
Speaker 2: there so they can get some electricity power and so
Speaker 2: they can ought to be together, try to exchange information
Speaker 2: and work together, so it will be better for them
Speaker 2: to work and safer between brackets always for them to work,
Speaker 2: to be honest, Yes, I don't know. If you see
Speaker 2: the news now, it's we had the sun has set,
Speaker 2: so it's completely dark, and because you just gonna have
Speaker 2: some light and spots which are the hospitals, and you
Speaker 2: know that even the solar and the sorry, the fuel
Speaker 2: for school for hospitals is about to to to finish
Speaker 2: here and in two days I think maximum. But we
Speaker 2: will see. Maybe we'll have some trucks or they will
Speaker 2: get something inside Gaza for fuel and so on. But
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, every day it's changing, I guess.
Speaker 1: And I wondered, like talking about getting things into gather,
Speaker 1: getting getting things two people in Gaza, a thing that
Speaker 1: seems to be completely like I don't know, Genue. It
Speaker 1: seems to be people think people could just walk out
Speaker 1: of Gaza and go somewhere else. So I guess, just
Speaker 1: to be extremely clear on that, can you explain the
Speaker 1: situation for people in Gaza with respect to if they
Speaker 1: want their mobility and their ability to leave, because I
Speaker 1: think it's something that again has been like criminally overlooked
Speaker 1: in the United States, discourse.
Speaker 2: Ability to leave Gaza.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, yeah, like a lack thereof would be
Speaker 1: more accurate, right, like they complete absence of that.
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, people on Gaza are blocked. They are all
Speaker 2: and they are not allowed to leave Gaza with any
Speaker 2: kind of borders. Even the people who have international passports
Speaker 2: like American, European or whatever passports, they are not now.
Speaker 2: They are not able to leave Gaza. They have to
Speaker 2: face their faith now. They are just displaced from place
Speaker 2: to another. Some people have been displaced four times and
Speaker 2: for areas different areas, and others were displaced and bombed
Speaker 2: letter So no, they are blocked. They have They are
Speaker 2: blocked in a like a very limited area which is
Speaker 2: under strikes the whole time. No place is safe, even
Speaker 2: the Baptist hospital. They thought that it would be a
Speaker 2: Baptist hospital, hospital related to a church and so on.
Speaker 2: It was strike massively cruely. More than five hundred have
Speaker 2: been killed. They were all children. Mothers are sitting just
Speaker 2: as thinking that it would be a shelter for them. So, yes,
Speaker 2: this is the situation because there is no safe place,
Speaker 2: no hospitals. If you are in a hospital, you will
Speaker 2: be bombed. If you are in school, you'll be bombed.
Speaker 2: If you are in a mosque if you will be bombed.
Speaker 2: If you're in a church, you will be bombed. No
Speaker 2: safe place unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's unimaginable. And like the act
Speaker 1: of bombing that we were talking about this before we started,
Speaker 1: but like when you're being bombed, it's very different from
Speaker 1: like a small art conflict or even like a you
Speaker 1: know whatever, artillery motors rockets like you, there isn't much
Speaker 1: you can do to be safe. It's not like there
Speaker 1: is no like cover from bombs. You know that, you
Speaker 1: you there's no.
Speaker 2: By the way, there's no under ground shoulters.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now they are intense. By the way, they
Speaker 2: were in houses houses, they were falling on their heads,
Speaker 2: so they went to tense. So when they were tent falls, it's.
Speaker 1: Not so yeah Jesus, Yeah, it's it's bleak. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's unimaginable. Like I said, yeah, I just spent
Speaker 1: a week in a place that was being.
Speaker 2: Very fat protected by the sky which is full of
Speaker 2: planes bombing them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and every time you look up you wonder
Speaker 1: what that is and is this still time or is
Speaker 1: this still one? So I think one thing people are
Speaker 1: really struggling with is like overload of information missed information, right,
Speaker 1: just some of the worst pieces I've ever seen in
Speaker 1: opinion pieces on PLA things center social media, which are
Speaker 1: like it seems that we've returned to like peak a
Speaker 1: islamophobic rhetoric of like September twelve, two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and we've learned absolutely nothing from twenty years of killing
Speaker 1: and dying. So I wonder where you would recommend if
Speaker 1: there are members of your syndicate or other places where
Speaker 1: people can find reliable and for reporting which is you know,
Speaker 1: fact checked, which is not overloading and with you know,
Speaker 1: like if if you go on Twitter to try and
Speaker 1: find your information at the minute, you're just going to
Speaker 1: get into an argument with someone who has the worst
Speaker 1: opinions in the world, and it's not good and it
Speaker 1: can dissuade you from taking action in the ways that
Speaker 1: you've mentioned which are actually useful. So is there a
Speaker 1: place you suggest people look for information outlets or individuals
Speaker 1: they could follow.
Speaker 2: Well, who wants to know the truth will be will
Speaker 2: find it. You know, the media is always any media outlet,
Speaker 2: it has its it has its mandate and vision and
Speaker 2: so on. So I just advise everyone when you go
Speaker 2: for any outlet, media outlet, just try to read about
Speaker 2: what's what's its mandate, who's they are related to, who's
Speaker 2: they are supporting, and so on, so to know from
Speaker 2: which perspective you will know the truth. I can't tell
Speaker 2: now the names of outlets because I am. It's not
Speaker 2: me who to decide who's who's the right one. As
Speaker 2: you know, I am, I work in a syndicate which
Speaker 2: is like a union, which is for all journalists with
Speaker 2: all food, all at outlets, so they are all our members.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I think that's advice so that people
Speaker 1: can take more. It's it's good advice that people can
Speaker 1: take more broadly, because I think people are completely unaware
Speaker 1: the ownership of some outlets that mandate there perceived biases.
Speaker 2: Yes, try to read about them, not only the New Elf,
Speaker 2: not the news itself, but try to see about this outlet,
Speaker 2: about this establishment, how it's working, what their objectives, how
Speaker 2: do they work, and what are their connections and so on,
Speaker 2: so you will know what kind of which kind of
Speaker 2: news they are covering and how do they cover it? Y. Yes,
Speaker 2: this is what I can say for us as tell
Speaker 2: a journalist syndicate. We try now to report about journalists
Speaker 2: because this is our manda, this is our work to
Speaker 2: tell about what's going for our members, to try to
Speaker 2: get any protection for them. Actually were this appen in
Speaker 2: this very hard condition. But we try our through our friends,
Speaker 2: through our relations to our supporters, through our memberships and
Speaker 2: so on, to have some international support for them through information,
Speaker 2: through like a flow of information telling what's going on.
Speaker 2: How many journalists have been killed, how many journals are displaced,
Speaker 2: how many and so on, So we try to give
Speaker 2: data those that are not. As I already told you,
Speaker 2: it's really a hard job that we are going we
Speaker 2: are doing now. It's getting more and more difficult. We
Speaker 2: are trying to cope, trying to develop new tools to
Speaker 2: cope with this hard, very hard speit situation. But we
Speaker 2: try our maximum to be nests to get very real
Speaker 2: and true information, not to get any misleading information. There's
Speaker 2: a flow of misleading information information Even we hear about
Speaker 2: many journalists that they are killed, but when we try
Speaker 2: to make sure that we found that they are not journalists,
Speaker 2: we don't get them put them in our lists. We
Speaker 2: try to investigate as much as we can, so to
Speaker 2: put our lists to be limited to journalists, to our members,
Speaker 2: to the people who work with us, with our within
Speaker 2: our mandad and so on, so to be credible source
Speaker 2: of information.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's very important. I am so. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys shared it. I sure a
Speaker 1: video early on it was well, I was still in
Speaker 1: Syrian courdi is down, but we were watching it a
Speaker 1: funeral of three journalists who have been killed, and like
Speaker 1: someone was saying at the funeral that they were speaking
Speaker 1: and there's someone else will pick up his camera and
Speaker 1: like keep documenting things. Really was very emotional for me
Speaker 1: and my friends. Yeah, it was really sad, but.
Speaker 2: Yes it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe you. It's just you know, that's the
Speaker 1: thing that I do, and I see people, you know,
Speaker 1: dressed like me. People I know it's been very of
Speaker 1: your coverage of that has been very emotionally challenging for me,
Speaker 1: but it should be emotionally challenging. It's terrible, but I
Speaker 1: think people should definitely tune into it if they can.
Speaker 1: I wonder, are there like social media accounts that the
Speaker 1: PJS has that people can follow.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have Facebook page. It's on Facebook. Yes, it's
Speaker 2: a Palestinian Journalist syndicate. Yeah, just and we try to
Speaker 2: download all our news on it. Also we have our
Speaker 2: website which is www dot PJS dot p S. Also
Speaker 2: you can find some news statements, updates and so on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, and I encourage people to to follow
Speaker 1: that they're able to. I wonder, really, is there anything
Speaker 1: else you think that people are like, anything that's been
Speaker 1: missing from the media narrative that you'd like people to
Speaker 1: know about the situation now in Palestine, or like the
Speaker 1: situation more broadly that hasn't been reported on as much
Speaker 1: as it should be. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to add something about besides what's
Speaker 2: going on, and because even a journalists in the West Bank,
Speaker 2: even in Palestinian journalists in Israel are facing a lot
Speaker 2: of threats, facing a lot of problems. There is a
Speaker 2: massive campaign of arrests. So up to now one thousand,
Speaker 2: in three days, one thousand persons have been arrested. We're
Speaker 2: trying to find the number of journalists, which is I'm
Speaker 2: not sure about it, but I can't give you the figure,
Speaker 2: as I told you, because of the big number we're
Speaker 2: trying to make who are the journalists? But a massive
Speaker 2: arrests campaign is taking place now. Also, journalists are facing
Speaker 2: a lot of threats about a lot of violations while covering.
Speaker 2: Many times they are prevented from coverage, They are threatened
Speaker 2: by weapons, They are threatened sometimes by the settlers aren't
Speaker 2: settlers even not the army while covering many of them. Also,
Speaker 2: they they are subject to incitement through social media pages
Speaker 2: like spreading their photos or the and so to make
Speaker 2: a kind of excitement how to kill them or to
Speaker 2: get rid of them and so on. So, also journalists
Speaker 2: are facing a very hard time now. Yeah, they are
Speaker 2: under the threat.
Speaker 1: Yeah damn, Yeah, that's terrible and kipedian acceptable. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you shared that, and I think it's important
Speaker 1: that people follow this and do whatever they can to help,
Speaker 1: do whatever they can to to I don't know, to
Speaker 1: encourage people to stop bombing other people, Like it's never
Speaker 1: a good situation. People are bombing children and hopefully it
Speaker 1: comes to an end, get it. I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: never seen this much outgoing support for Palestine in the
Speaker 1: United States. But I've also you know, this is an
Speaker 1: unprecedented act of a war crimes solicated. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to see where this is going. I suppose.
Speaker 2: Yes, we believe that the voice is reaching maybe a
Speaker 2: little but not that fast that that's easy, because it's
Speaker 2: not easy. But we believe in every person who thinks
Speaker 2: and say, no, this is inhuman I should not I
Speaker 2: should be with those people who are under attack, who
Speaker 2: are under under Yeah, a lot of hard life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a hard life, a lot of oppostion.
Speaker 1: So yeah, when.
Speaker 2: We see that as adult, when we see the demonstrations,
Speaker 2: it really gives us power. It really gives us that
Speaker 2: we have right to life. You know, this is a
Speaker 2: minimum right that we need people to tell us, Yes,
Speaker 2: you have a right to life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's it's nice to hear, you know it.
Speaker 1: It's like if you can feel that you're helping, even
Speaker 1: just helping people feel like a little bit, you know, elevated,
Speaker 1: a little bit better, a little bit less despairing, because
Speaker 1: I can see how it would be very easy if
Speaker 1: you're stuck in Gaza to feel like the world's abandon
Speaker 1: you because it has to a large degree, right, the
Speaker 1: world's allowed this to happen, and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: not it's American bombs, American plaints dropping bombs unfortunately. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think that's really good to hear. It's good
Speaker 1: to hear that that has made some difference. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for giving us some of your time. I
Speaker 1: know it's thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jams, thank you for having me with you.
Speaker 2: I wish you all good luck. Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 2: all who listener listeners to this podcast. I hope that
Speaker 2: I was able to give you an overview of what's
Speaker 2: going on. And let's pray that this violence will end
Speaker 2: very soon.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, indeed, let's thank you very much. I
Speaker 1: was wonderful.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It could Happen here as a production of
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
Speaker 2: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us
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Speaker 2: Happen Here, updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.