WEBVTT - The ETF Story 6: The Revolution

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<v Speaker 1>So since then you become something of the foremost. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know about that, but I do. I do work

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<v Speaker 1>a lot in the e TF space. Of all the

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<v Speaker 1>E t F s out there, right, there's two thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred. Just give us a ballpark. How many do

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<v Speaker 1>you think you helped sort of birth through the legal

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<v Speaker 1>process to make it to market a number and then

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<v Speaker 1>an asset waiting. I had no idea. Um. For instance,

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<v Speaker 1>I helped the first eye shares, and there were forty

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<v Speaker 1>of them when we first did the eye shares. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so that's but I didn't billion, but I didn't represise

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<v Speaker 1>to fifty. We're already about the whole industry. What else mickcap, spider, diamonds, diamonds, gold,

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<v Speaker 1>all the all the pressures. Yeah, g l D pre shares. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>we're about already. Can we hit fifty? Let me think

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure. I'm looking market vectors any schwab Vandguard Vanguard.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh jesus, okay, now we're this is trillions presents the

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<v Speaker 1>E t F story. I'm Joe Webber, editor of Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week. In the early two thousand's, after webs becomes

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<v Speaker 1>part of I Shares and it really begins to take off.

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<v Speaker 1>Innovation in the E t F space is inevitable, and

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<v Speaker 1>as you just heard from Kathleen Mariarty, she ushered in

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<v Speaker 1>many of these innovations in the form of new ETFs

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<v Speaker 1>which are still relevant today. Dave Nodded, longtime managing director

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<v Speaker 1>at et F dot Com, says that in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>et F history, spy definite innovation webs really more of

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<v Speaker 1>a mainstreaming of an existing innovation LQT. I think a

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<v Speaker 1>genuine innovation which prize opened the door. Bruce Levin is

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<v Speaker 1>a senior strategy advisor to a Story Advisors, but he

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<v Speaker 1>was running product development at I Shares when it first

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<v Speaker 1>launched fixed income ETFs, including what is considered to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of be the Spy of fixed income l q D,

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<v Speaker 1>the first corporate bond ETF. The bond market, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>is a whole another thing, because it's an intransparent market

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<v Speaker 1>where you don't have that ability just you know, put

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<v Speaker 1>in a picker and get a quote on a bond.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, this also took a while to get the

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<v Speaker 1>SEC on board with the product, but once we got

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<v Speaker 1>the SEC comfortable that not only was it going to work,

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<v Speaker 1>but we were actually going to provide a benefit to

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<v Speaker 1>the market by creating of security that was a reference

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<v Speaker 1>point for where these these things to trade. I think

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<v Speaker 1>they liked that idea, and I think it's been very

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<v Speaker 1>successful as a result, Levine said, like the sec investors

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<v Speaker 1>were slow to warm initially, he says it was only

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<v Speaker 1>the most sophisticated advisors who liked these fixed income products.

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<v Speaker 1>Like everything with ETFs, once people understood what they were

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<v Speaker 1>getting and they toe dipped, they ever went back. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>once you've thought and got comfortable with something like an LQD,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not going to try to assemble individual bonds on

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<v Speaker 1>fifty companies for a small amount of money, which is

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<v Speaker 1>never gonna do that not says l q D was

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most significant launches in et F history.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like there was a huge leap of faith

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<v Speaker 1>required from a regulatory standpoint to launch l q D.

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<v Speaker 1>What was required was that same leap of faith from

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<v Speaker 1>the dealer community to be the other side of the trade.

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<v Speaker 1>There was no question that portfolio managers and institutions and

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<v Speaker 1>advisers would want to buy corporate bonds in a more

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<v Speaker 1>convenient package. Because buying corporate bonds was a pain in

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<v Speaker 1>the ass. So yeah, by all means, they were a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of demand for it. But getting the dealer community

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<v Speaker 1>to show up and do creation redemption, the ability to

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<v Speaker 1>do um cash and lou for part of the baskets

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<v Speaker 1>because some stuff might not trade well enough, all of

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff was really just a feat on the street,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, ground effort to make that happen, a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit like trying to get somebody elected who may not

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<v Speaker 1>be that well known. You had to go out and

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<v Speaker 1>knock on doors and get these dealers to understand that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>creation redemption was going to work in the bond market. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And that I think was what really opened up people's

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<v Speaker 1>eyes to what E T s could become. And another

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<v Speaker 1>significant launch in that early two thousand's was Vanguard's first

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<v Speaker 1>et F, the Vanguard Index Participation Receipts or VIPERS. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was more psychologically significant and maybe almost spiritually

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<v Speaker 1>significant than it was from any markets perspective. Viper poisonous snake. This,

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<v Speaker 1>as you'll recall, is Vanguard founder Jack Bogel. In some ways,

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<v Speaker 1>Bogel played a significant role in the ETS creation by

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<v Speaker 1>giving Nate Most feedback when Most was first dreaming about

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<v Speaker 1>what would become spy. Spy was also priced to compete

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<v Speaker 1>with Vanguard expense ratio from the very beginning, but no that.

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<v Speaker 1>Bogel has remained an outspoken critic of ETFs ever since.

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<v Speaker 1>Well in e t F is just another form of

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<v Speaker 1>index fun, a sort of bastardized form for the one

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<v Speaker 1>of a better word. Bogel says it's hard to pinpoint

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<v Speaker 1>his reaction to VI first it was eighteen years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>but he says he could understand why it happened. So

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<v Speaker 1>there we are had to They looked at it, and

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<v Speaker 1>many looked at as a way to get into the

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<v Speaker 1>brokerage business, which I thought was not catastrophic. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>our our original premise was build a better mousetrap in

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<v Speaker 1>the world, will beat a path your door, And all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden we were out there hunting money other work. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it didn't warm my heart. I don't refe

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<v Speaker 1>recall feeling bothered about him, and I even, to be

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<v Speaker 1>quite blunt about it, said, you know, I'd probably have

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<v Speaker 1>done it too. I think the real kicker for the

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<v Speaker 1>Vipers coming online was it signaled to individual investors and

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<v Speaker 1>to a growing class of Vanguard focused advisors that e

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<v Speaker 1>t F s were okay, and I think that that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of anointment by somebody as revered as Vanguard really

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<v Speaker 1>opened the door for a huge rush into these products

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<v Speaker 1>by core asset allocation advisors, which is really what drove

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<v Speaker 1>all the growth in the two thousand's. Soon after Vipers

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<v Speaker 1>comes to market, Power Shares launches in two thousand three,

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<v Speaker 1>and the power Shares brand is where we first get

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<v Speaker 1>the concept of smart beta ETFs in a big way.

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce Bond, who had previously been the head of marketing

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<v Speaker 1>at Nuvine, was leading the launch. Bond says he'd seen

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of product packaging in the et F space

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<v Speaker 1>and he knew what the problems were for all the

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<v Speaker 1>different products, and that's when I started to say, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>At the time, there were no active e t s

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<v Speaker 1>and I looked at it and I said, well, what

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<v Speaker 1>is an index? An index as a group of stocks

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<v Speaker 1>that track something, right, it doesn't matter what it is,

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<v Speaker 1>so um now it has there's certain requirements and index

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<v Speaker 1>has to have in order to be replicated by an

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<v Speaker 1>e t F. But at the time they were all benchmarks,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, just static cap weighted or dollar weighted

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<v Speaker 1>or what you know. However, their waiting scheme was. But

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<v Speaker 1>we looked at it and said, well, why wouldn't we

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<v Speaker 1>create an index of stocks that are intelligently selected using

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<v Speaker 1>a quantitative methodology, and we will build an index out

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<v Speaker 1>of a stocks a rank stocks rather than just all stocks,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll have it waited like the market, so it

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<v Speaker 1>will look like the market from awaiting exposure standpoint, but

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<v Speaker 1>we'll do that with quality securities rather than just all securities.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's when the intellidux was born. And that's a

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<v Speaker 1>really intelligent indexing or smart beta or whatever you want

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<v Speaker 1>to call it. That was the birth of that whole movement.

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<v Speaker 1>He says people really hadn't thought creatively about what an

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<v Speaker 1>index actually was. And he says it was hard getting

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<v Speaker 1>power Shares off the ground. So we had to convince

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<v Speaker 1>something an intelligent index, quantitatively derived was better, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like an index with value. It was better than just

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<v Speaker 1>a benchmark that floated along out there. And then we

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<v Speaker 1>had to also convince them, you know, of who power

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<v Speaker 1>shares was, and what an e t F is, and

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<v Speaker 1>and y an e t F the structure is. We're

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<v Speaker 1>going through all this to get the value through it

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<v Speaker 1>from a tax standpoint and a cost an efficiency standpoint,

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<v Speaker 1>not exaust The power shares products are so important because

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<v Speaker 1>we first started seeing evangelism for smart beta et s

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<v Speaker 1>and the form of ROB are not a a sticker

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<v Speaker 1>pr F. I think PRF is notable because it brings

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<v Speaker 1>with it ROB or not even more so than whatever

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<v Speaker 1>it's doing in the method adology. And ROB are not

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<v Speaker 1>was and remains such an advocate of a smart data methodology.

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<v Speaker 1>All right there, raffy waiting scheme in there that we've

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<v Speaker 1>for the first time sort of had our are evangelists.

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<v Speaker 1>The person you could put on radio or person you

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<v Speaker 1>can put on television would sit there and talk about

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<v Speaker 1>smart beta, whether they were using that phrase or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Are not says. The term smart beta has been commandeered

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<v Speaker 1>by the industry to encompass practically anything, so smart beta

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<v Speaker 1>now spans a whole array of strategies, some of which

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<v Speaker 1>are smart, some of which are not at all smart,

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<v Speaker 1>some of which break the link with price and have

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<v Speaker 1>the structural rebalancing alpha of the original smart beta concepts,

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<v Speaker 1>and some of them chase fads, chase bubbles, and are

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<v Speaker 1>the antithesis of smart. But smart Beta has grown hand

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<v Speaker 1>in glove with the t F community because the e

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<v Speaker 1>t F community, well, fourteen years ago it was boring,

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<v Speaker 1>had a bunch of capuited indices. The only exciting thing

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<v Speaker 1>in that whole domain was sector funds. All right, well

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<v Speaker 1>that's not very interesting. And so once fundamental index was

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<v Speaker 1>adapted to e t S, the doors swung wide open

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<v Speaker 1>for a whole array of strategies. And I applaud the

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<v Speaker 1>product proliferation that's happened there. Why shouldn't investors have a

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<v Speaker 1>wide array of choices. So, after we have bonds and

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<v Speaker 1>smart Beta plus some major growth in the E t

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<v Speaker 1>F space, g l D is the next logical innovation,

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<v Speaker 1>Although the intellectual property to make it happen required yet

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<v Speaker 1>another leap of faith and yet another bunch of structural

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<v Speaker 1>shenanigans not exist. The people behind structuring g LD gold

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<v Speaker 1>really did have to invent the wheel. The way g

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<v Speaker 1>l D works from an investor's perspective is, hey, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just like everything else. You just buy it, you get

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<v Speaker 1>exposure to gold under the hood. It's doing all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff no other structure has ever had to do.

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<v Speaker 1>All it had to create a whole way of accounting

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<v Speaker 1>based on ounces. It was literally a whole new accounting

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<v Speaker 1>methodology that you could never get away within a traditional

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<v Speaker 1>Fortiact fund. They had to come up with a new

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<v Speaker 1>trust structure in order to make that happen. Um, they

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<v Speaker 1>had a whole another gap of creation redemption problems to solve.

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<v Speaker 1>And much like how l q D gave people access

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<v Speaker 1>to a very difficult to buy security corporate bonds, not

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<v Speaker 1>says g l D really opened up gold as an

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<v Speaker 1>asset class. Prior to that, the only people who really

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<v Speaker 1>thought about gold as a portfolio asset were either sort

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<v Speaker 1>of hedge funds that could afford to be, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>buying certificated golden large amounts where they could be afford

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<v Speaker 1>to be buying directly in the London volume market, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>central banks, uh, you know, maybe major corporate treasuries that

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to shelter money. But but it wasn't something

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<v Speaker 1>that the average investor thought of it as a portfolio acid.

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<v Speaker 1>If anything, you thought of it as sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>rainy day collectible that you literally stuck in a safe

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<v Speaker 1>in the basement. It got to a billion dollars in

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<v Speaker 1>three days. That's a record, As you know, it's that

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<v Speaker 1>I called the Joe DiMaggio hitting still the standing record

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<v Speaker 1>easily is it? You know what number two is? Can

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<v Speaker 1>you guess? Yeah? That's true? Nerd nerds him right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Hardly anybody knows that I thought m J might break it.

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<v Speaker 1>But the performance it was on Pace D and D

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<v Speaker 1>was like a week or two, two and a half months,

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<v Speaker 1>was it? Really? That's that's why it's the hitting streak.

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<v Speaker 1>Bob Tool says that gold really helped demonstrate the vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>use of the E t F. E t F s

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<v Speaker 1>are rappers, right, cases into which you put something. The

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<v Speaker 1>case is agnostic. What became wonderful about the case is

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<v Speaker 1>that we could put anything into it. It could hold

0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.680
<v Speaker 1>gold because you would deposit gold into it and you'd

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<v Speaker 1>have the shares. It would be a proxy for gold.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you became silver. And then we did currencies,

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<v Speaker 1>and we did all kinds of things. And part of

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<v Speaker 1>the reason for it is by doing all of this,

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the game, if a person had

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<v Speaker 1>twenty dollars, they could have a real assid allocation model

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<v Speaker 1>as opposed to exposure to a couple of stocks. And

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<v Speaker 1>since the realization that these vehicles are so effective in

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<v Speaker 1>many spaces. Each have grown immensely over the past decade.

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<v Speaker 1>To give you a sense, they were at six and

0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.319
<v Speaker 1>two thousand eight and since then they've grown sixfold to

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.480
<v Speaker 1>three point six trillion. This growth can provide a lot

0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.400
<v Speaker 1>of opportunity for investors, but it can also feel like

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot are not. Likens it to being overwhelmed with

0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>choices at the grocery store, but if you see too

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 1>much variety, your eyes started to start to glaze over

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 1>and you wonder what the heck am I going to buy.

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 1>We're in sort of that situation, and in ets today,

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 1>there are hundreds of smart bait e t s and

0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of them aren't smart. A lot of them

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 1>are really pretty dumb ideas. We're looking at a world

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:18.800
<v Speaker 1>in which change happens gradually. People don't en mass pick

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.160
<v Speaker 1>up and move from one idea to another. Most of

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the growth in a U M and mutual funds has

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>actually been on the e T S side, but most

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>of the assets are still on the mutual fund side.

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>These things change slowly, and just as the dinosaurs in

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Jurassic Park were big and powerful, they eventually got wiped out.

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 1>The best new ideas will gain tractions slowly but surely,

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>and the worst of the old ideas will lose ground

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 1>slowly bit surely, but they'll still be powerful participants in

0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 1>the market in the interim, and that interim will last

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>many years to come. I don't expect this to be

0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.440
<v Speaker 1>a sudden see change, but I do do expect the

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 1>evolution of recent years to continue. E t f s

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:19.960
<v Speaker 1>are a powerful tool and an investors stool kit. So

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>where are et f s headed. Dave Nodding thinks the

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:28.960
<v Speaker 1>natural evolution is towards traditional active management, like how companies

0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 1>such as Fidelity or t row Price have skilled research

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>teams that pick et f for other people. I think

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>that's almost inevitable now. Whether those will be successful products

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 1>or not, I don't know. I give kudos to the

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>folks like David's advisors who really just come out and said,

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 1>you know what, traditional active we pick stocks better than

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>you do. Give us your money, and I admire the

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.120
<v Speaker 1>hudsp of that, whether they end up being right or wrong.

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I think what we're going to see is more um

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 1>whether we call them AI based funds, whether we call

0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.560
<v Speaker 1>them smart beta funds, you know, we're seeing more and

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 1>more of those strategies get launched and get some traction

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 1>on the AI e Q launched pretty recently, got decent

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 1>assets pretty much out of the gate couple a million bucks.

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 1>So there is an appetite for these smarter smart beta products.

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>I think will eventually abandon this moniker smart beta. I

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 1>don't know anybody that actually likes likes that phrase. So

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 1>we're going to just start calling these things quant active

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.120
<v Speaker 1>or quant funds, which is frankly what they've been all along.

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of projections out there, not only

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.960
<v Speaker 1>about how eces we used like not I just explain,

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.600
<v Speaker 1>but also projections about how big these things can get.

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>We talked about projections p wcs like ten trillion in

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 1>five years, state streets twenty five trillion. Yeah, that's that's

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 1>even more aggressive than mine. I don't use the term aggressive,

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 1>I use it less sober. And then and then we

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.000
<v Speaker 1>are thirty and thirty, which is thirty trillion. That's global.

0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Those are global. Let's let's go with the global number

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 1>we got. I forget what it is now, five and

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a half or six trillion. Where's this headed? Like, how

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>far do you think the e t F can go?

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Where it doesn't? Again? Sort of eat up too much. Well,

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.320
<v Speaker 1>too much is a relative thing. I mean, you know

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.360
<v Speaker 1>in the US right now, ETF zone about what six

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.440
<v Speaker 1>percent of market cap, right, So could you double that

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 1>and still not substantially impact market structure? Yeah? Could you

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 1>quadruple that? Yeah? Right, So the idea that you can

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>go from five trillion to twenty trillion doesn't scare me

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.119
<v Speaker 1>in the least, especially when we're talking about some of

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:45.920
<v Speaker 1>those assets going into enormously large markets like sovereign bonds

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.639
<v Speaker 1>and commodities and currencies and gold, right, and not everything

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.520
<v Speaker 1>is a small cap equity fund, right, Not everything is

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 1>emerging market local currency debt. So these assets are going

0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.080
<v Speaker 1>to go into very large pools. And we're also to

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.800
<v Speaker 1>market where issuance is growing faster than people talk about,

0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Like and you just think about the corporate bondspace where

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 1>everybody worries about the ETF is getting too big. Issuance

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 1>is doubled in the last nine years. They're total outstanding debt, right,

0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.639
<v Speaker 1>So you know, the e t F portion of that

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 1>hasn't grown by percentage basis at all. It's just the

0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.880
<v Speaker 1>fact that that there's just way more corporate debt out there.

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>And so assuming that we don't have some radical global

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 1>economic downturn that crushes asset values worldwide. Twenty trillion seems

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:35.240
<v Speaker 1>like a completely reasonable number. You know, we can't know

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.399
<v Speaker 1>if that growth will happen, But as my colleague Eric

0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Baltunas points out, Nate most would most definitely be surprised

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.320
<v Speaker 1>if he were still alive. I don't think they think

0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 1>there would be three trillion. I don't think they think

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.320
<v Speaker 1>to be you know, six trillion worldwide. I don't think

0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>they'd think they're being et f in Iceland. I don't

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.680
<v Speaker 1>think they would think there'd be a t S tracking

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 1>the things they do. I think some of the things

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>E t S track would actually worry them, you know,

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 1>like Vick's futures. So you know, look, this industry has

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 1>just exploded, and just like any evolutionary line, those lines

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.439
<v Speaker 1>run fast and they go into different places and it's interesting.

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, see, if we don't get Bloom, I can

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:13.119
<v Speaker 1>sort of just say what he told me. But you

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 1>know what his his really great quote was is we're

0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to make a great product, but it turned

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:26.520
<v Speaker 1>into in an entire industry, or more simply, can you

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 1>imagine a world without the e t F any longer, No,

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 1>probably not never. Thanks for listening to the et F

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Story until next time. You can find us on the

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:47.399
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 1>else you like to listen. The et F Story is

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 1>produced by Jordan's Bell, with some production help by Magnus Hendrickson.

0:19:55.200 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Francesca Levy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. In stating

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.479
<v Speaker 1>the pilots and the triple Delusa and BA