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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. Listener mail.

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Speaker 2: My name is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And on these episodes of

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Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind, we read back messages from

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Speaker 3: the email address. If you would like to get in

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Speaker 3: touch and you've never done it before, please give it

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Speaker 3: a go. You can reach us at contact at stuff

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Speaker 3: to Blow your Mind dot com. All types of messages

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Speaker 3: are welcome, especially if you would like to add something

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Speaker 3: interesting related to a topic we've talked about on the show.

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Speaker 3: But also corrections are always appreciated if we make a

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Speaker 3: mistake random trivia. You think we would be into suggestions

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Speaker 3: for future show topics or suggestions for movies for Weird

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Speaker 3: House Cinema. Any feedback to Stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 3: Core or Weird House Cinema, send it our way contact

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Speaker 3: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. So today's

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Speaker 3: mail bag is still heavy with a bunch of older

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Speaker 3: messages we didn't have time to get to in our

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Speaker 3: last round up our October thirty eighth or whatever whenever

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Speaker 3: we did that, And we've got some new stuff, so

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Speaker 3: we'll see what we can make it through today, Rob,

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Speaker 3: do you mind if I kick things off reading this

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Speaker 3: message from Anita on a number of topics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it.

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Speaker 3: Anita says, I am truly sorry for this clumpy compendium

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Speaker 3: of communication. I've wanted to write in for a while,

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Speaker 3: but have been thinking I'd put it off until I

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Speaker 3: had something more to say. And then I had a

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Speaker 3: lot to say. So here goes. You guys are awesome.

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Speaker 3: Listening to you brings back warm memories of grad school

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Speaker 3: and listening to educated folks just shoot the breeze. So

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Speaker 3: many times while listening to the show, I think to myself, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but what about and then you actually bring it up.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like you can hear me. You also give

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Speaker 3: so many good conversation starters. Thank you so much. Well,

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Speaker 3: thank you, Anita. That means a lot. But right after this,

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Speaker 3: she's going to bring out the hot iron about pronunciation. So,

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Speaker 3: Anita says, having gone to the University of Colorado, Boulder,

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Speaker 3: I can tell you that it is see you Boulder.

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Speaker 3: I know, but that's the way we do it. I

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Speaker 3: think this is addressing every time we talk about somebody

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Speaker 3: affiliated with University of Colorado Boulder, I'm sure I call

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Speaker 3: it u CE Boulder, but yeah, U SEE tends to

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Speaker 3: relate to the University of California and not University of Colorado.

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Speaker 3: So I apologize for the hundreds of times I've probably

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Speaker 3: said that.

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Speaker 2: Wrong, igniting the you know, the fear sports rivalry between

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Speaker 2: whatever these two universities teams are go big horns.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea. Also, Anita says, having lived in Nevada,

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Speaker 3: it is pronounced Nevada with an a, like an apple.

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Speaker 3: Saying it the other way. I probably always say Nevada.

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Speaker 3: Saying it the other way is like nails on a

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Speaker 3: chalkboard to a Nevada. I know it's originally Spanish, but

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Speaker 3: it's American naw Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I mostly noticed this pronunciation when there

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Speaker 3: is national news coverage relating to elections where things are

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Speaker 3: happening in Nevada, and I can hear newscasters like pause

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Speaker 3: before they say the name of the state and then

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Speaker 3: say Nevada, as if they're having to remember to pronounce

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Speaker 3: it that way. So I don't know, maybe they're like me.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they said it the way I said it a

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Speaker 3: bunch of times. Anyway, The next thing is Anita says,

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Speaker 3: an article just came around from the Dane County Humane

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Speaker 3: Society about a squirrel king that was found. I live

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Speaker 3: just north of Madison, Wisconsin, in Lodi. I work in Madison,

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Speaker 3: which is in Dane County. So yeah, this relates to

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Speaker 3: episodes we've done in the past on the rat king phenomenon.

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Speaker 3: We've addressed the extent to which this is a real

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Speaker 3: thing and not just made up. There's clearly a lot

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Speaker 3: of rat king mythology, but there is some bay in

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Speaker 3: reality as well. So I went to this article and

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Speaker 3: I pulled in some pictures and Rob, I've got at

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Speaker 3: least one of the photos for you to look at

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Speaker 3: in the outline here where we see several squirrels that

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Speaker 3: are you see the distinct squirrel bodies like the you know,

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Speaker 3: the the fan blades on a pinwheel. But then yes,

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Speaker 3: their tails come together in the middle in just a

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Speaker 3: mushy mass of gray brown fur leaves what looks like

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Speaker 3: some kind of plant fiber. It's just a mess in

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Speaker 3: the middle, and all the tails go in. So Anita

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Speaker 3: attaches a link to a news article from the Dane

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Speaker 3: County Humane Society by I think their director named Jackie

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Speaker 3: Edmonds from October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. I'll read

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Speaker 3: from the opening to give you an idea of the story.

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Speaker 3: Here quote. On September seventeenth, twenty twenty five, a group

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Speaker 3: of five young Eastern gray squirrels were found with their

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Speaker 3: tails all knotted together in a phenomenon known as a

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Speaker 3: squirrel king. The finders, who were from Janesville, successful captured

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Speaker 3: the entire scurry, which is a real term for the

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Speaker 3: group scurry of squirrels, placed them in a bucket, and

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Speaker 3: brought them to Dcchs's Wildlife Center for an emergency admission appointment.

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Speaker 3: It was theorized that these babies snuggled together for warmth

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Speaker 3: and comfort inside of their cavity nest or dray a

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Speaker 3: leaf nest, and came into contact with tree sap while

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Speaker 3: they were growing. As the sap spread, it thickened and hardened,

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Speaker 3: and the squirrels continued to squirm around each other while

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Speaker 3: they got bigger. In doing so, the knot in their

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Speaker 3: tails worsened over time. So that's the beginning of the story,

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Speaker 3: But then it goes on to describe lots of careful

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Speaker 3: rehabilitation efforts by workers and volunteers at the center, and

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Speaker 3: there are some pictures of that too, of the workers

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Speaker 3: carefully trying to take care of the squirrels to get

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Speaker 3: the the clumped up part removed, and finally at the

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Speaker 3: end they do get all the squirrels separated. And then

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Speaker 3: there's an update from November thirteenth, so just recently. The

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Speaker 3: article says, great news, the five squirrels that had comprised

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Speaker 3: the squirrel king were successfully rehabilitated and released on Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: November eleventh, so they're all separate now, and Edmunds says

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Speaker 3: quote after speaking with the finder, they were returned to

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Speaker 3: their property along with a nest box. The finder has

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Speaker 3: agreed to carefully supply food throughout the winter to help

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Speaker 3: the squirrels since they did not have time to collect

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Speaker 3: winter supplies.

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Speaker 2: That's a nice ending to that little story. Two takeaways here,

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Speaker 2: I think, one especially for our international listeners. Yes, in

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Speaker 2: this country you do get free healthcare if you are

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Speaker 2: a bundle of rodents. Humans not so much. And then

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Speaker 2: on top of that, the idea that this knot of rodents,

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Speaker 2: this knot of squirrels, was successfully untied and the squirrels

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Speaker 2: were saved. If the rat king, or in this case,

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Speaker 2: the squirrel king, is indeed a dire omen. Successfully solving

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Speaker 2: it in this manner would seem to be a way

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Speaker 2: to prevent disaster and prevent some sort of looming doom

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Speaker 2: from occurring. So I like the metaphysical possibilities of this

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: It's like knocking on wood or throwing salt over your shoulder.

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Speaker 3: You untangle the squirrel king.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot more complicated. We tend to throw

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Speaker 2: the salt over our shoulder because it requires virtually no work,

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Speaker 2: and all you have to do is turn around and

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Speaker 2: make sure it lands in the sink. Right, Untangling the

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Speaker 2: squirrel king clearly took a lot more skill and expertise.

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Speaker 3: Anita has a little more in her message, she says,

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Speaker 3: And lastly, we have a certain metal filing cabinet here

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Speaker 3: at work that sounds like Godzilla. I think of you

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Speaker 3: two every time I need to get shipping labels. Sound

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Speaker 3: file attached. I guess we can play it here, But

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Speaker 3: warning listeners, it is squeally, so take note that it's coming.

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Speaker 3: I agree, it's quite kaijusque. There is a kind of squeal,

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Speaker 3: a radioactive squeal, echoing up into the stratosphere, so I

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Speaker 3: hear exactly what you're saying, and I may have actually

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Speaker 3: had that thought about squealing metal on metal sounds before.

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Speaker 3: It really does sound kind of like a giant monster.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just need to drop the Godzilla theme song

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Speaker 2: on top of that.

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Speaker 3: Dun dun dun, dun dun.

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Speaker 2: Duh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Anita finally says, glad, I got that out

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Speaker 3: of my system. Thanks for giving my brain things to

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Speaker 3: chew on. Joe's gentle snickering sounds, along with Rob's mums,

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Speaker 3: especially when he doesn't quite agree.

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Speaker 2: I need. I'd never really until I read this one

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Speaker 2: when it came in. I'd never really thought too much

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Speaker 2: about what my momms might be giving away.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know either. I guess I say

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Speaker 3: some moms too. I have to think on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes they just might have no particular opinion. I

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Speaker 2: might be very neutral. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'd say that's the most common time I would say,

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Speaker 3: MM is when I don't feel like I have an

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Speaker 3: opinion on.

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Speaker 2: Something unless it's a downward and then I might Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it might be Yeah, I don't know. I have to

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Speaker 2: listen back and see if I can figure out this.

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Speaker 2: Since I generally know where my mind probably was when

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Speaker 2: I uttered a given all right, what do we have

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Speaker 2: next in the bag? A number of these the listener

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Speaker 2: mails seem to be a little bit sticky.

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Speaker 3: That's right. So we're gonna do another episode on the

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Speaker 3: licking theme from before our break last week. We're going

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Speaker 3: to do another one later this week, and one listener

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Speaker 3: mail message on that subject actually inspired a segment for that.

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Speaker 3: So we'll talk about some listener mail in the Licking

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Speaker 3: Part three episode. But we got quite a few responses,

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Speaker 3: especially to the research on how many licks it takes

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Speaker 3: to get to the center of a Tutsi pop. This

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Speaker 3: really set people off.

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Speaker 2: That's right. All right. This first one comes to us

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Speaker 2: from Scott subject Tutsi Pop memories, gentlemen, I was transported

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Speaker 2: back to the days of my youth during the Licking

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Speaker 2: Part one episode the discussion of the Tutsi pop. I

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Speaker 2: distinctly remember sitting cross legged on the living room floor,

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Speaker 2: staring rapidly at the black and white television set as

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Speaker 2: the Tutsi Pop commercial came on, and the feeling of

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Speaker 2: amusement mixed with betrayal on behalf of the kid when

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Speaker 2: that smart ass owl stole, yes, stole his candy, wise

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Speaker 2: old owl, I think not Charlotte's, and I say thief

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Speaker 2: swindler in the guise of an authority figure ahem. Sorry

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Speaker 2: about that. Perhaps I have some unresolved childhood issues. To continue.

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Speaker 2: Your observation that the phrase how many licks to get

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Speaker 2: to the center of a tutsi pop may be paradoxical?

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Speaker 2: May be a paradoxical riddle to prove provoke enlightenment? Is

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Speaker 2: I believe accurate. There is no answer, partially because it

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Speaker 2: is a trick question. You see, nobody actually licks a

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Speaker 2: tutsi pop. One eats a tutsi pop by sticking the

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Speaker 2: entire thing in the mouth, where it is bathed in saliva,

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Speaker 2: causing it to dissolve. The act of licking involves sticking

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Speaker 2: the tongue out of the mouth to make contact with

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Speaker 2: the object. I've never heard of anyone doing that, aside

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Speaker 2: from the comically large novelty lollipops the size of a

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Speaker 2: child's head you get at circuses and county fairs.

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Speaker 3: This is a really good point. I don't think I

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Speaker 3: ever licked a lollipop when I was a kid. You

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Speaker 3: put I put it in my mouth and just passively

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Speaker 3: dissolved it. I feel like licking a lollipop is something

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Speaker 3: only oodor does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the only time I might have done it,

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Speaker 2: or I've seen other kids doing you're probably consciously re

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Speaker 2: enacting something you saw in a cartoon. Yeah, but yes,

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Speaker 2: very good point. Yeah, you're generally you're putting it in

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Speaker 2: your mouth and it's just swirling it around and so forth,

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Speaker 2: in the same way that you don't lick any other

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Speaker 2: hard candy that's not on a stick. It just goes

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Speaker 2: in the mouth. Yeah. Anyway, they continue. You don't lick

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Speaker 2: at Tutsi pop, you suck on it. Indeed, where I

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Speaker 2: grew up in southwest Michigan, the common nay only name

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Speaker 2: used for Tutsi pops and their generic brethren was sucker.

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Speaker 3: Yep, I remember that too. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 3: they were suckers more than they were lollipop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't really say lollies because it's suckers. I

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Speaker 2: think I like the term lollies more if I was

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Speaker 2: to refer to them, but that's not what we call them.

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Speaker 2: Scott continues as far as the actual question of whether

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Speaker 2: one should or shouldn't crunch through the candy shell to

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Speaker 2: get to the center. I may be an outlier in

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Speaker 2: the population of Tutsi pop eaters. As long as I

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Speaker 2: can remember, I strove to avoid the crunch. My goal

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Speaker 2: was always to suck on the thing until the flavor

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Speaker 2: of the chocolate ciner mixed with the Erstot's fruit flavor

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Speaker 2: of the shell. Only then did I give myself permission

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Speaker 2: to finish it off in a few bites. Ah childhood.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for dredging up the memory from the vaults, Scott, Yes,

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Speaker 2: some great points here. I may have gone into this,

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Speaker 2: but I think I tended to avoid the crunch as well,

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Speaker 2: in part because I wasn't as crazy about the Tutsi

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Speaker 2: center and would rather the orange exterior last as long

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Speaker 2: as possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there also seemed I don't know, when I was

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Speaker 3: a kid, I don't think I liked trying to crunch

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Speaker 3: hard candy, like hard sugar candy. That seemed dangerous. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I was a nerdy overly cautious child, but that just

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Speaker 3: seemed like that could do something to your teeth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do want to stress though, there are

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Speaker 2: plenty of people out here who loved the combination of

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Speaker 2: the flavors. I just offhand. I ended up chatting with

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Speaker 2: some friends reminiscing about their experiences with Tutsi pops, and

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Speaker 2: more than one of them were like, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: love the way that the two flavors came together. So

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Speaker 2: on one hand, I may be an outlier and that

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Speaker 2: I didn't really like the Tutsi Pop Center as much,

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Speaker 2: And or I could be misremembering it a bit. You know.

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Speaker 2: It could be that I really actually loved it as

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Speaker 2: a kid, and I've just kind of paved over that

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Speaker 2: particular memory detail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny how you think you can remember things

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Speaker 3: like this, but then sometimes the more you think about them,

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Speaker 3: the more you doubt at les.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or you allow your adults views on things to

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Speaker 2: then the shape of your childhood memories, thinking like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't like Tutsi roles now, surely my childhood self

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Speaker 2: didn't like them either, But it's entirely possible that I did,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 3: This next message is also about Tutsi pops. This is

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Speaker 3: from ian Ian, says dear Robin Joe, you asked for

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Speaker 3: personal Tutsi pop stories, I shall oblige as far as

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Speaker 3: eating them normally, I didn't lick them, per se, I

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Speaker 3: would suck on the whole thing in my mouth like

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Speaker 3: a sucker, and only once I tasted chocolate would I

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Speaker 3: bite through the very last thin layer of hard candy

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Speaker 3: coating to the core. The crunch was very satisfying. I

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Speaker 3: also did the licking experiment ones as I'm sure many

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Speaker 3: other children did. I sat down with a Tutsi pop

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Speaker 3: and a legal pad and made a tally mark every

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Speaker 3: time I licked it. I can't remember my technique other

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Speaker 3: than that I counted exposing any part of the chocolate

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Speaker 3: core as reached out the center. When all was said

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Speaker 3: and done, it took me six hundred and sixty six

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Speaker 3: licks to reach the center. Really, at the time, I

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Speaker 3: was unfamiliar with the satanic connotations of that number, and

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Speaker 3: now I wonder what the significance of my result is.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps Tootsi Pops are the candy of the devil. Thanks

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Speaker 3: for the show, Keep up the good work, ian Ian.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to trust you on that that you're not

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Speaker 3: just making that up because it's a good story.

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Speaker 2: Made up or not, I am going to assume it

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Speaker 2: is the correct answer. Now, six hundred and sixty six

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Speaker 2: licks seems appropriate and actually not that far off. From

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Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about the wide variety of numbers

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Speaker 2: that some of these actual studies resulted in, so it

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Speaker 2: seems possible that you could get six hundred and sixty

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Speaker 2: six totally.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I think the next message from Matt addresses

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Speaker 3: the question of the wide variety of results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt says, Hey, guys, just wanted to jump in

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Speaker 2: with my own experience that might shed some light on

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Speaker 2: why that one study found a number of licks uch

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Speaker 2: higher than the others. For context, I was a weird

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Speaker 2: kid who had entertained himself with tedious projects like counting

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Speaker 2: to a thousand. I've also tried to count to one million,

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Speaker 2: but when I got to a few hundred, I realized

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Speaker 2: how long it was taking to even be one two

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Speaker 2: thousandth of the way to the goal, and gave up

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Speaker 2: on that one. In any case, I did undertake finding

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Speaker 2: the answer to how many licks does it take to

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Speaker 2: get to the center of a Tutsi pop? And I

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Speaker 2: got a similar number to the three thousand plus sided

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Speaker 2: in the one study. I think they, like myself, defined

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Speaker 2: to get to the center to me not only to

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Speaker 2: drill a hole that reached the center, but to completely

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Speaker 2: liberate the Tutsi roll from its hard candy prison. In

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Speaker 2: my mind, we were getting to the center in the

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Speaker 2: same way you were getting to a buried treasure. That is,

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Speaker 2: you haven't gotten it until you have got it all

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Speaker 2: the way out of the substance it's buried in.

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Speaker 3: Mmmm, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: I also wondered, WHI while doing this, what kind of

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Speaker 2: lick should I be doing? A dainty lick with the

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Speaker 2: top of your tongue must take more licks than an

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Speaker 2: aggressive lick that envelops the entire pop after all. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: thought i'd share, man.

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Speaker 3: I think this really emphasizes how much exercise is actually involved,

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Speaker 3: Like how much work it would be to again lick

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Speaker 3: the entire Tutsi pop down instead of just yeah, passively

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Speaker 3: dissolving it inside your mouth. Like that's a lot of

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Speaker 3: work in the tongue muscle. Yeah, okay. This next message

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Speaker 3: is also a response to the licking episodes, but not

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Speaker 3: about the Tutsi pop. It's about when we were talking

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Speaker 3: about the licking of wounds and also about the idea

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Speaker 3: of licking one's own eye. Oh, Robin, I think this

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Speaker 3: was in the context of talking about lizards that can

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Speaker 3: lick their own eyes.

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Speaker 2: To clean, yes, particularly geckos, but.

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Speaker 3: We were discussing how you know, some animals might have

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Speaker 3: special adaptations for this, but in other cases, licking or

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Speaker 3: spitting in the eye obviously can transfer bacteria from one

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Speaker 3: place to the other, and the eye can be very

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Speaker 3: sensitive to certain kinds of infections, so you know, it's

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Speaker 3: something to be avoided if possible. Rachel says, Hi, guys,

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Speaker 3: I just listened to the episode about licking, and it

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Speaker 3: reminded me of the time one of my rabbits had

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Speaker 3: an eye infection and after finishing the course of medications,

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Speaker 3: the problem still persisted until I realized it was because

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Speaker 3: my other rabbit wouldn't stop licking his eye. As soon

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Speaker 3: as I separated them, the infection was resolved. Ugh, I

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Speaker 3: feel bad because my rabbit was just trying to help

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Speaker 3: the other one, but it was actually making it worse. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: love the podcast. I've been a long time listener.

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Speaker 2: Great detail, great story. I like it.

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Speaker 3: That is interesting. But one thing that I don't think

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Speaker 3: I read about rabbits in any of the research I

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Speaker 3: was looking at in communal wound looking. I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: they don't do it, but I don't know of any

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Speaker 3: evidence other than this email that they do. So I

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Speaker 3: wonder if rabbits regularly engage in group communal wound looking

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Speaker 3: to help each other decontain emanate wound areas, or otherwise

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Speaker 3: help each other heal, or if maybe there was just

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Speaker 3: you know, this one rabbit had a kind of idiosyncratic

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Speaker 3: taste for eyeball.

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Speaker 2: I remember it factoring into Watership Down a lot, oh

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Speaker 2: when they were treating wounds. Not enough to say that

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Speaker 2: that's that it should be the primary source in order

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Speaker 2: to answer this question, but that does bring back to

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Speaker 2: my mind a number of scenes in which the rabbits

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Speaker 2: in that story that that work of fiction are tending

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Speaker 2: to each other's wounds.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, well, then I would bet that's probably based

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Speaker 3: on something in reality. So yeah, I guess they probably

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Speaker 3: do it all right.

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Speaker 2: This next one, I don't even precisely remember the call

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Speaker 2: out for this, but I still greatly appreciate the answer.

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Speaker 2: Skyler sent us a message with the subject line giant

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Speaker 2: pilgrim skeleton in neighbor's yard from mid November. And indeed

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Speaker 2: it is one of these giant skeletons like we've seen

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Speaker 2: pop up in yards in recent years. And this one

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Speaker 2: has been decorated to look like a Pilgrim for Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 2: for American Thanksgiving apparently, which I think is wonderful. Hey,

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Speaker 2: I think these I love that these skeletons are staying

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Speaker 2: up year round and are getting different seasonal costumes. And also,

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you're gonna go with Pilgrim decorations nowadays,

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Speaker 2: I feel like scary Pilgrim is the way to go.

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Speaker 2: Scary skeletal, undead Pilgrim a plus in my book.

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Speaker 3: Now there's also an update that Skylar sent us after

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Speaker 3: the first message that came on November twentieth, so so this,

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Speaker 3: I guess was several days later they like completed the look.

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00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 3: So it started just giant skeleton with a Pilgrim upper

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Speaker 3: body costume. They added a skeleton dog, the kind with

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Speaker 3: ears and dogs don't have the bones in their ear,

390
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Speaker 3: but you know, so that you know it's a dog.

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Speaker 3: So there's skeleton dog right next to it. Okay, it's

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Speaker 3: got a puppy. And then also Pilgrim hat. And also, Rob,

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Speaker 3: did you notice this little detail eyeballs in the skull.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see them in the first picture. Maybe they're

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Speaker 3: hiding back there sort of. But doesn't look like it

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Speaker 3: to me. It looks like somebody went in there and

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Speaker 3: updated the skull with freaky eyeballs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think this is. This also nicely illustrates

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Speaker 2: the realization that one steadily gets leaving Halloween and realizing

400
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 2: that Thanksgiving is about to occur. The Pilgrim costume, the

401
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: the insane eyes of the dog specter. Yeah, it all tracks.

402
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Speaker 3: Big old buckle on the hat. What's that buckle for?

403
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 3: I guess it holds the hat together.

404
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: It's like it keeps the brain chaste, right, because that's

405
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: the reason.

406
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Speaker 3: It's a chastity belt for the crown of the skull.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for the mind. Yeah, your thoughts only.

408
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Okay, Rob, let's see what do you think about digging

409
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Speaker 3: into some of the messages left over from the previous

410
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 3: episode's mailbag. Some of these older ones from September. We

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Speaker 3: have a bunch of responses to our episodes from Star

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Speaker 3: Trek week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, engage all right.

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Speaker 3: This message comes from Ian. It is about our episode

415
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Speaker 3: on transporters in Star Trek and teleportation paradoxes. Ian says,

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00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 3: just finished your episode on Star Trek Transporters and wanted

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Speaker 3: to write in with a few thoughts that you might

418
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 3: find interesting. Your discussion about transporter accidents had me thinking

419
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: about ian Embank's Culture civilization and how its approach differs

420
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 3: drastically from the Federation. Where the Federation is roughly a

421
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 3: Kardashev level one point five civilization, the culture is more

422
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 3: around a two point five, and though they do have

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Speaker 3: transporter technology in the ultra safe culture civilization, the one

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00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 3: in several billion chants of a teleportation accident is considered

425
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 3: far too dangerous to use unconscious being, so it is

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00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 3: restricted purely for cargo transport outside of extreme situations such

427
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: as emergencies or military operations. I found this to be

428
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 3: an interesting and subtle extension of the way our own

429
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 3: society's perception of acceptable risks changes as we're able to

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: mitigate more and more dangers that in the past would

431
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: have been considered just an everyday part of life.

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Speaker 2: This is a great point and something I've either I

433
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: forgot about it from the culture books that I've read,

434
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: or maybe it wasn't stressed as much in the particular

435
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 2: culture novels that I have read in the past. But

436
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: a great point and very much on, very much in

437
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: keeping with the culture. The culture. If anyone out there

438
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: isn't aware, or you haven't read Ian in Banks, or

439
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: you haven't heard me talk about it on the show

440
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: in a while, Scottish Authory and in Banks, the late

441
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: great In Banks envisioned this far future vision of humanity

442
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: and various alien species in which the culture is a

443
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: post scarcity anarchist utopia, and so it's it's such an interesting,

444
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: thought provoking and I think ultimately, you know, optimistic vision

445
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: of the future in the same way that Star Trek is,

446
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 2: but with its own distinctive flavors. You know, certainly getting

447
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 2: into some difficult problems, you know, philosophically, politically and so forth,

448
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: but at the root, you know, having this vision of

449
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: a far future society in which human beings enjoy a

450
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: great deal of freedom and equality. So if you find

451
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: yourself needing a vision like that in the year twenty

452
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: twenty five, or certainly in twenty twenty six, yeah, there's

453
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: never a better time to pick up one of Ian M.

454
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 2: Banks culture novels.

455
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I have not read these books, but

456
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 3: from what I remember, they have a very positive vision

457
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: of the ultimate sort of integration of artificial intelligence into

458
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: into human biological life.

459
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. But at the same time there, I mean, there's

460
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: there's one novel in particular that gets into like the

461
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: dangers of artificial intelligence and self replicating machines and so forth,

462
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: So you know, it's it's not one hundred percent you know,

463
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 2: techno optimist in that regard. Again, very very thought provoking

464
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: works that take these various problems and potential problems seriously,

465
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: from from self replicating machines to you know, theologies of

466
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: hell and virtual realms and so forth.

467
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: One of these days I'll have to get around to

468
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: reading them. And You've been talking about them for years

469
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: and I've been meaning to. I know, Ian and Banks

470
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 3: is greatly revered by many people whose taste I share.

471
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 3: I think.

472
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: So.

473
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: But getting back to Ian, I guess coincidence the name

474
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: here different spilm yes Ian's email. Ian says when discussing

475
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: the episode Star Trek episode Second Chances, in which Reiker

476
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 3: is duplicated, you briefly discuss the idea of meeting another

477
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 3: version of yourself who has had different experiences, and how

478
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: you may or may not even like that person. That

479
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 3: idea is explored quite in depth in a recent video game,

480
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: The Altars though not involving teleportation. The Altars involves a

481
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: loan technician stranded on a hostile alien planet who uses

482
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: a quantum scanning device to create alternate versions of himself

483
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 3: to help man the ship and escape the planet. The

484
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: device allows him to see all of the different critical

485
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: moments in his life that send him down different paths

486
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: and generate a version of himself who made the other choice.

487
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: So the ship's reactors broken, quantum duplicate the version of

488
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 3: yourself who became an engineer. Someone have an injury, simply

489
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 3: summon the version of yourself who went to medical school.

490
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: Each version has a different personality, outlook on life, etc.

491
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 3: Many don't like each other, and managing the interactions between

492
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: them is critical to surviving. It's a really interesting game

493
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: that does sound interesting.

494
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't this one flu under my radar. I

495
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: had to look it up and it sounds fascinating from

496
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: the developers, I believe of frost Punk, which I was

497
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: familiar with by reputation.

498
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I never played it. Ian says, finally, my last

499
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: thought is actually related to Star Trek. At the end

500
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: of the episode, Joe was musing about different ways the

501
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: transporter could be used for medical treatment since it can

502
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 3: filter out problematic infectious agents and the like. Uh yeah,

503
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 3: The question was like, if it turns you into information

504
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: and then decodes you back into matter, could you basically

505
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 3: turn medical problems into information debugging problems? You know, you

506
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: just like edit the code basically and then spit out

507
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 3: the healthy version. Ian says, as I recall, there are

508
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 3: several episodes of the various Trek series where the crew

509
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 3: does things like that, but the one that immediately sprang

510
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 3: to mind was an episode of Voyager, which begins with

511
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: the doctor assisting a woman in labor when things begin

512
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: to go wrong, and then he says, we're going to

513
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 3: have to perform an emergency C section, then walks purposefully

514
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: across the room to a computer console, where he proceeds

515
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 3: to beam the baby out of the mother's body and

516
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: directly into an incubator a few feet away, saving the day.

517
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: It's an amusingly anti climactic ending to a scene that

518
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: up to that point had been presented as if part

519
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 3: of a tense medical drama. Anyway, I know I've run long,

520
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: so I promise I won't be offended if you edit

521
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: any of this out. Well, we did not, I guess

522
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 3: apart from a few line edits. Please keep up the

523
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: good work, look forward to each episode. Ian, Thank you.

524
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: Ian. Yeah, yeah, great point. I have not really seen

525
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: any Voyager and this episode did not come up in

526
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: my research for that episode. So that's a great one

527
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 2: to share, all right. This next one comes to us

528
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: from Scott. Scott says, Hi, Joe and Rob. I am

529
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: a philosopher who also loves Star Trek and hence have

530
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: much familiarity with the philosophical debates around personal identity and transporters.

531
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: They actually led me to wonder if the history of

532
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 2: these debates would have been different if Gene Roddenberry had

533
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: explained the transporter differently as simply moving bodies intact through

534
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: some kind of temporary wormhole or tunnel. Actually, the idea

535
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: of scrambling and reassembling doesn't make much sense, as it

536
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: requires extra work on top of the assumption that we

537
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: can transmit some matter or energy instantaneously, and it seems

538
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: especially strange that this can be done without any mechanism

539
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: at the remote end. I compare this to the mantra

540
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: often given by cognitive scientists that quote, the best model

541
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: of the world is the world itself, explaining why we

542
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: don't have perfect memories of everything in the world, but

543
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: often rely on imperfect ones, which then allow continual updating

544
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: from the world itself so we can navigate it. Likewise,

545
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: the best model of the complex arrangements of the atoms

546
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: in our body is the body itself. Why not just

547
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: transmit this as a piece. Perhaps the idea was that,

548
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: given current physics, could we can transmit energy faster than matter.

549
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: But since the whole premise of Star Trek assumes a

550
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: warp drive which can move matter faster than light, going

551
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: well beyond current physics, I don't see why an instantaneous

552
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: conduit for matter over shorter distances couldn't have seemed just

553
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: as plausible. Indeed, the idea of reassembling atoms is so

554
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: implausible that I wonder if it would have ever occurred

555
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: to someone as a philosophical problem about whether the reassembled

556
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: person was identical to the dismantled one, if it hadn't

557
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: already been introduced as a possibly unnecessary science fiction plot device.

558
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: Scott, that's a good question. Would you even have people

559
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: in philosophy departments proposing, you know, questions about the swamp

560
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: man type scenario if there had never been a science

561
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 3: fiction idea of teleportation by these sorts of means.

562
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting if you think of

563
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: it as a potential flaw. Maybe not a plot hole,

564
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: but maybe some sort of a flaw. It's been such

565
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 2: a thought provoking flaw, you know. Sometimes it is the

566
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: it's the wrinkles, it's the imperfections in a work that

567
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: fascinate us the most. Not that I'm saying that I

568
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: think this model of teleportation is a flaw in the

569
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: Star Trek franchise. Again, I think it's something that keeps

570
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: my mind tumbling over and over.

571
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: Okay. This next message comes from Eric. It has the

572
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: subject line Transporters and Consciousness. Hi, Robin Joe, thank you

573
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: for your fun and lighthearted exploration of teleportation from Star Trek.

574
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: As a moderate Trek fan, I enjoyed your coverage of

575
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: the topic. You mentioned the Next Generation episode Rascals from

576
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: season six. I don't remember what we said about that,

577
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: rob Wait, is that the one where they're like the

578
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: transporter turns them into children?

579
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: Yes? Okay, And if I remember, we kind of just

580
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: mention it in passing and I made I think I

581
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: made a comment where I didn't necessarily recognize who all

582
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: the characters were that had been transformed into children.

583
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so Eric says. A minor clarification is that

584
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: the fourth character who was childified was Kiko O'Brien. Am

585
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: I saying that right? I think so Okay played by

586
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: Rosalind Chow, the wife of Chief Miles O'Brien played by

587
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: Cole Meanie. They are frequent guest characters in the Next Generation,

588
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: and Miles in particular is a regular character on Deep

589
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: Space nine. Miles, as a working class petty officer, often

590
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: acts as a good foil for the more staid and

591
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: intellectual officers of the Enterprise, and this episode is a

592
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: good example. He has a very difficult time processing the

593
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: fact that this little girl is actually his wife and

594
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: keeps trying to take care of her like a child.

595
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: He's well intentioned, but emotionally clumsy. The O'Brien's aren't really

596
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 3: thinking about the philosophical implications or even the long term

597
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: ramifications the other crew members are. They're just trying to

598
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: get through the day as a family. While I wouldn't

599
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: hold the episode up as a Next Generation must see,

600
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 3: I think this subplot is very endearing and relatable. Thanks

601
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 3: again for a great episode and for a fun week

602
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: in tribute to Trek. Eric. Thanks Eric. Yeah, that's a

603
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: whole other philosophical question, like how do you deal with

604
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: an adult who suddenly transformed into a child.

605
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: I don't know.

606
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to imagine what would be needed to

607
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: take care of me if I were suddenly five again.

608
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is a yeah. I appreciate getting more

609
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 2: info on this episode, which is probably one that I

610
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: only watched once back in the day in syndication. You know,

611
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: of course, watching these shows in syndication, you didn't really

612
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: have the liberty of picking out the best episodes or

613
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: or knowing what are the strong episodes and overarching episodes

614
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: that I need to watch. In my Star Trek the

615
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 2: Next Generation Journey, now, it was just whatever was on

616
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: at like nine pm. That was the Star Trek you

617
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: were watching.

618
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: I'm actually sitting here getting like ashamed and mortified, thinking

619
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: like if I were suddenly transformed into my daughter's age,

620
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 3: would I play nicely with her? Or would I not

621
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 3: be sharing my toys? What if I was a really

622
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: rotten little toddler and I was like not sharing and

623
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: being mean, it's horrifying me.

624
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a thought provoking question too, because

625
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 2: we've seen shows like this where the adult brain, the

626
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: adult is transformed into a child, but they retain the

627
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: mind of an adult. But would that be the case?

628
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: Like how much of childhood? I mean, how do you

629
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: separate the tube? You know, would you? And then what

630
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: would it be like to then be a child with

631
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: a child's brain, but with perhaps the memories of an adult, Like,

632
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's very complicate. It's kind of the

633
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 2: Tutsi pop scenario. Yeah, Like there's a simple version of

634
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: imagining it, but the more questions you ask about it,

635
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: the more complicated it becomes.

636
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: Fortunately, transporter incidents of this kind are very rare, so

637
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: we don't have to worry about this for the most part.

638
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: Though it is again it's just the things I love

639
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: about the transporters in Star Trek is like this. The

640
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: list of potential side effects are just wild. You might

641
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: be turned into a child, you might end up with

642
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: an evil doppelganger. There's just so much that can happen.

643
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: It probably won't, but there's a non zero chance.

644
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: Do you remember the transporter incident from spaceballs where Melbrook's

645
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 3: top half gets put on backwards so his butt is

646
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: in the front.

647
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah, that's a good one. I'd forgot we

648
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: should have mentioned that in the episode.

649
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good one, actually, one of I mean,

650
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: not great, but one of the less horrifying outcomes.

651
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: I can't remember. Did they fix it or was it

652
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: just stuck that way? Yeah?

653
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: I think they've beam him back and fix it. Okay,

654
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: but briefly he's looking down at his own butt and

655
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: that would be a strange experience.

656
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: All right. This next one comes to us from a

657
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: listen Joe. Joe says, huge fan of Wookie, so I

658
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 2: love Star Trek week. Kidding, kidding. There is a wearable

659
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: headset designed to help folks with limited vision called the Jordie.

660
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: You can probably guess what it looks like before you

661
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: google it. As a geek and fan of your show,

662
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the myriad episode topics on the various episodes

663
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: this week. I don't know why, but it compelled me

664
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: to suggest a potential topic for the future. The Jordi

665
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: wearables were inspired by fiction, but now they are clearly

666
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: or could clearly become brigenitor tech to an actual visor

667
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: that works like Jordie's visor in Star Trek. For those

668
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 2: of you who aren't aware, this is Jeordie LaForge played

669
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: by the great LeVar Burton. He was visually impaired and

670
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: had to wear this visor device that I think had

671
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: some sort of a neural link system as well that

672
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: enabled him to see any right, Joe continues, have y'all

673
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: covered this topic before or do you see any meat

674
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: on the bone for an episode that inspires science, which

675
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: inspires fiction into this perpetual cycle of innovation and then

676
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: is a complete Aside myself and a fellow blind buddy,

677
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: we're straining our brains the other day trying to make

678
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: a list of seminal Jordy centric episodes. Do any come

679
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: to mind? Do you happen to have a Jordy episode

680
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: or moment you particularly are fond of? Anyway, as ever,

681
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: thanks for the work y'all put in each episode and

682
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: the fun informative content it creates all the best.

683
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Joe. Now, I don't have a lot

684
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: of memory because the only Next Generation I watched, and

685
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: it's been a while on this was like the first

686
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 3: season or so, so I have less exposure than Rob,

687
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: does Rob, do you have a Jordy moment?

688
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, man, I wish I had better answer here,

689
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: And I think I would if I'd watched all these

690
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 2: episodes more recently, and I could tell you. Okay, I

691
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: think this is the episode where Jordie's character is presented

692
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: in the strongest fashion and developed, and it has a

693
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: lot to do plot wise. But I guess the main

694
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: one that comes to mind is an episode titled The

695
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: Next Phase that I think we even referenced in our

696
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: teleportation episodes. This is one where Jordie and in Sign

697
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: Row are lost in a teleporter accident and become like

698
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: transporter ghosts on the ship. So my memory of this episode,

699
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: which could be highly flawed, is that is that these

700
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: two characters are front and center, and you know, therefore

701
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: have a lot of agency and are directly involved in

702
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: the threat and the problem of the episode, and therefore

703
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: that one stands out. And then I have a lot

704
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: of vague memories of different episodes where, of course Jordi

705
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: is an instrumental member of the team in solving a

706
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: particular crisis.

707
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I could remember more about the show

708
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: other than I remember somebody getting eaten by mud puddle.

709
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the key early episode. Yeah, that was

710
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: pretty terrifying. But getting back to this idea of this

711
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: sort of cyclical loop of science fiction and science yeah,

712
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: I think there might be something there, maybe some sort

713
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: of an invention catch all episode or series. It looks

714
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: for possible inventions that line up with this. I feel

715
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: like there's I'd have to think about it, but I

716
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: think we've covered one or two things like this in

717
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 2: the past. But yeah, I'll I'll have to give it

718
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: some thought.

719
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: All right. This next message is still about Star Trek,

720
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 3: comes from Ken. Ken says, I'm way behind on episodes,

721
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 3: but wanted to comment on your Star Trek transporter episode.

722
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 3: I've heard this debate on if you die every time

723
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: you're transported, but in Star Trek, it's clearly established that

724
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 3: your consciousness stays with you the entire process. The idea

725
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 3: that you are in one place then suddenly another as

726
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 3: your atoms are put back together isn't canon in the show.

727
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: There are multiple episodes where you see how the place

728
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: you're at slowly fades to gray in the new place

729
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: slowly materializes. That would not be possible if you weren't conscious.

730
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: Until being realigned. There's an episode of the Next Generation

731
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: titled Realm of Fear where Lieutenant Barkley sees something in

732
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 3: the transporter stream in between one place and the destination

733
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: and later grabs one of the creatures to pull it

734
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: out of the stream. Clearly Barkley's consciousness travels unbroken the

735
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 3: entire transport just some food for thought, Ken, Well, thank you, Ken.

736
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: So on one hand, I don't want to argue with

737
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 3: stuff that's just axiomatically part of the show. So if

738
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: it's axiomatically part of the Star Trek universe that your

739
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 3: consciousness is the same and survives the whole process, I

740
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 3: can't really argue with that. But even though what you

741
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: say intuitively makes sense that you know, being conscious through

742
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: a kind of fading in and out process would eliminate

743
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: the worries about, you know, the person going in dying,

744
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: I don't think that actually does solve that problem, because

745
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: how could you ever verify that the experience was continuous

746
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: for the person that went in this This is a

747
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: sort of restating the original problem again. But if the

748
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: person that comes out has the memories of the person

749
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: that went in, it will seem always to have been

750
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: continuous for them. But is there any way the output

751
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: Spock could tell the difference between existing continuously the entire

752
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 3: time is one person versus being a newly created Spock

753
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: with all of input Spock's memories and input Spock is

754
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: now dead. I think technically there's just no way to

755
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 3: verify that, And in fact, there's no way to verify

756
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 3: that this doesn't happen every single second of our lives.

757
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 3: That you know, there's some you that died and is

758
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: gone now and you're just a new you with the

759
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: memories of that old you. But I think the reason

760
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 3: we don't assume that about every single second of our

761
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: lives is that we don't have any reason to believe

762
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 3: that's the case. Molecular disassembly and then reassembly of the

763
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: brain especially does give you a reason to wonder that. So,

764
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: in my opinion, that would hold true whether the experience

765
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 3: was an instantaneous copy paste into a new place or

766
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 3: kind of gradual fading in and out. At some point

767
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 3: during the fade, you would have to wonder did the

768
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: old Spock cease to exist? And the new Spok wouldn't

769
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 3: have any way to figure that out. It would feel

770
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 3: continuous to the newspak either way.

771
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially since that an individual in this scenario

772
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: would still be narratively defining and understanding the human experience

773
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 2: and telling stories about who we were in r and

774
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: how these two are connected or more than two, how

775
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: every little person in this chain of being are connected,

776
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: and not seeing them as distinct others that have like

777
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: a tiny death standing between each one. Yeah, but why

778
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: not you could easily put that forward. I don't know

779
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 2: how compelling that would be, you know, if you were

780
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: to try and force that on a civilization or I

781
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, to get into sort of like

782
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: world building and sci fi, like what kind of a

783
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: civilization would have that kind of worldview for themselves and

784
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 2: what it would accomplish. But it's interesting to think.

785
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 3: About would it have any effect on reality other you know,

786
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: like would that actually change anything?

787
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean one way that comes to mind

788
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: is like criminal justice, right, I mean, if you have

789
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: a world in which there's more of an intrinsic understanding

790
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 2: that we are not the person we used to be,

791
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: that that person is like many deaths removed from who

792
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: we are now and just shares certain memories and so forth,

793
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: maybe there's a stronger inclination to believe than change in

794
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 2: an individual, and the ability to move on from past transgression.

795
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

796
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that if that were the if

797
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 3: you were to apply it in that way, that would

798
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 3: sort of apply to every single thing in life. You

799
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 3: would sort of not ever believe any person had any

800
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: connection to anything they had already done.

801
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could just write on your coattails because those

802
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: aren't your coatails or someone else's. But that's always the

803
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: case too, right, So yeah, there's a there's a lot

804
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: of interesting room for thought here. If listeners, if you

805
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: know of a work of fiction, science fiction, speculative work

806
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: out there that has entertained any of these ideas right in,

807
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from you. All right, we'll skip

808
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: ahead to some weird house send them a listener mail

809
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: here as we begin to close out this episode, Let's

810
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 2: see what we have in the old mail bag here.

811
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: Let's see this is an older one. This one was

812
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: I think pre Halloween, so it was responding to a

813
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 2: call out for Halloween episode suggestions. But it's always there's

814
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: always another Halloween on the way, and we will presumably

815
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 2: be around for that Halloween. So I would say, yeah,

816
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: keep him coming. This one comes to us from Carry.

817
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Carrie says, Dear Robin Joe. Here are my three Vincent

818
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: Price movies that you haven't covered on Weird House that

819
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: might fit in. Only one has horror vibes, but they

820
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: all have Price in different roles. Okay, let's hear it first.

821
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: Up His Kind of Woman nineteen fifty one. Other stars

822
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: are Robert Mitcham, Jane Russell, and Raymond Burr, who portrays

823
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: a menacing mob boss. Price is a rich dilettante who

824
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: steps up when the situation requires it. It's set on

825
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: a tourist island in the Caribbean. I have not seen this,

826
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: never seen this one. Like the cast list, love Robert Mitcham. Yeah,

827
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: and I do probably need to see more Vincent Price

828
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: films where he's not where he's not just a horror

829
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: figure and you know some sort of a either haunted

830
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 2: or haunting individual because you know he's a great actor.

831
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: Let's see the next one. Dan Juris Mission nineteen fifty four.

832
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: Other star stars are Piper Laurie, who plays a woman

833
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: fleeing from assassination after witnessing a mob killing, and Victor

834
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: Mature who plays an undercover an undercover cop trying to

835
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: prevent the mob from getting Laurie Price plays the assassin

836
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: sent to kill her. It's set in Glacier National Park.

837
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful. Victor Mature came up on Weird House several

838
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: years back when I did an episode with with Seth

839
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: Nicholas Johnson about the Monkey's movie head. There's a recurring

840
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: joke in that movie where they they're like, now we're

841
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: going to address the darkest thing in the universe, Victor

842
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: Mature's hair.

843
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's pretty. It's a pretty dark head

844
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 2: of hair, as I can see see from some of

845
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: these photos.

846
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 3: Luxurious, tremendous hair.

847
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: Yes, all right. And then the third film recommended by

848
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: Carrie Here is The Comedy of Terrors nineteen sixty three.

849
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: Other stars are Boris Karloff, Peter Lourie, and Basil Rathbone.

850
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: Prize plays an evil man with a scheme involving an

851
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: inheritance and his sister or niece, I don't remember which.

852
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: The whole thing is played for laughs. If you're not

853
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: already familiar with the three movies, I think you would

854
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: enjoy them, And if they make the cut for Weird

855
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: house all the better. Keep up the good work. Care

856
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: Thanks for the suggestions. Yeah, I would watch all three. Yeah,

857
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: of the three, the only one I was really familiar

858
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 2: with this comedy of terrors. I mean, how can you

859
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: not be given the stars involved here? All right? Uh?

860
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: You cool? If I do this message from Lawrence, Yeah,

861
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 3: let's do it. Lawrence says, Hey, guys, shooting you a

862
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 3: note to comment on your rewind of Deep Blue Sea.

863
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: I missed it the first time around. Let me start

864
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 3: by saying I've only listened to the first half hour

865
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 3: or so. I stopped at the spoiler warning. I've requested

866
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 3: the DVD through an inter library loan extept to pick

867
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 3: it up at my local branch in five days or so.

868
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: After I've seen it. I'll listen to the rest and

869
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: maybe I'll have more to say then. But there are

870
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: a couple of things I'd like to comment on from

871
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: what I've heard. Beautiful, oh man, getting Deep Blue Sea

872
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: at the library from between libraries. This is interlibrary commerce.

873
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, take advantage of it. You know, we've We've heard

874
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: from other listeners out there, and I have family members

875
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: who do this as have done this as well. You know,

876
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 2: getting movies through their local library. Yeah, the resources there.

877
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: Take advantage of it, oh man, though I do have

878
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: to confess something. Just reading or hearing the phrase interlibrary

879
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: loan triggers like cringing of guilt in me because of

880
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: a time in grad school when I was working on

881
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: a research project and I was getting a lot of old,

882
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 2: rare books interlibrary loan, and there was one that I

883
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 2: had out way too long.

884
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: It took me. I was late getting it back, like

885
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 3: severely late, and I've felt guilty ever since.

886
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: Did are you sure you returned it?

887
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: I did finally, it was like months late, and I

888
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: felt horrible.

889
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think we all have we a lot

890
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 2: similar memories. Right, there's a little bit of nervousness. Will

891
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: we return it on time? But again, definitely take advantage

892
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 2: of these. This is I'm comfortable with my tax dollars

893
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: being used to move copies of Deep Flucy around the

894
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: Tri County area.

895
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: Presumably this is not like a rare book that you

896
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 3: will be severely missed, but still you should return it

897
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: on time of course. Anyway, Lawrence goes on, probably others

898
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 3: have pointed this out from the first podcasting, but I

899
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 3: balked at your assertion that there have been eighteen point

900
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: six billion shark movies made in the US. I don't

901
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 3: remember saying that, but this sounds about right, Lawrence says.

902
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: I had to pause, rewind, and listen again to make

903
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: sure I heard you right. I'm pretty sure there haven't

904
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 3: been that many movies made in the history of cinema worldwide,

905
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 3: never mind shark movies. Now. I didn't do real research,

906
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 3: but I did a little quick googling. When I asked

907
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 3: Google how many shark movies had been made, the number

908
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 3: it gave me was one hundred and eighty psh. Definitely

909
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 3: more than that. When I googled how many movies have

910
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: been made in the history of cinema, it's at estimates

911
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 3: range from hundreds of thousands to perhaps more than a million.

912
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 3: Google isn't the be all and end all, but those

913
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: numbers sound reasonable. For there to be eighteen point six

914
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: billion shark movies made in the US, there would need

915
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 3: to be about fifty four for each person living there

916
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: who made all these shark movies. I didn't make my

917
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 3: fifty four shark movies. On a more serious note, I

918
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 3: can't agree with your gushing praise of Jaws to be fair,

919
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 3: it may fall into the category of films I might

920
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 3: have liked had I not read the book first. The

921
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 3: film isn't as good as the novel, and the novel

922
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 3: isn't exactly a masterpiece. It's been a long time since

923
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 3: I've read it, But as memory serves, the novel offered

924
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,240
Speaker 3: credible characters behaving in ways I found consistent with each character,

925
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: and a good balance between subplots and the main storyline.

926
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 3: The film discards most of the subplot, probably to save

927
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: on length, and focuses on the main plot, which I

928
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 3: find less engaging. And in the film, I don't find

929
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: the shark hunt credible at all. Richard Dreyfus knows a

930
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: good deal about sharks, but he can't tie a knot,

931
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 3: let alone sail a boat. Roy Scheider is terrified of

932
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: the water, never mind a shark, and Robert Shaw is

933
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 3: constantly drunk. These guys don't need a shark to kill them.

934
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 3: They're bound to capsize the boat and drown. I'm hoping

935
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 3: I'll like Deep Lucy better find out in five days

936
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: or so. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Lawrence, Well, Lawrence,

937
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 3: I don't know what I think. I could not possibly

938
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: disagree with you more about Jaws the novel and Jaws

939
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 3: the movie, but I respect your opinion, you know, respectfully disagree.

940
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 3: I think I've read the novel and seen the movie.

941
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 3: I think the movie is marvelous, and I almost hated

942
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 3: the novel.

943
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never read the original novel. I did read

944
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 2: his giant squid novel Beast, Yeah, which had a big

945
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: squid arm on the front and it was textured so

946
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: you could you could rub your fingers over it and

947
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: kind of like read the suckers on it.

948
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: Oh man, I want to feel that right now.

949
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think they actually made a film version

950
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: of that, But I haven't seen the film adaptation, so,

951
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: but I have seen Jaws. I do love Jaws. But

952
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: Jaws is one of those films that was is such

953
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 2: an important film in the history of American cinema, especially

954
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: blockbuster American cinema. You can't discount it's it's importance and

955
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: its impact. But on the other hand, you know, we

956
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 2: don't know all have to like every movie, so I

957
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 2: can understand people maybe not digging it as much, or

958
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: maybe finding certain aspects of it a little bit dated

959
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: in light of everything that has come in its wake,

960
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: you know, playing off of and in some cases, I'm

961
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: sure improving on some of the concepts and ideas. As

962
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 2: for Deep Blue c I don't know. I hope by

963
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 2: the time you listen to this, you've you've man, You've

964
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: gone into the film, and you've gotten to watch it

965
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 2: for yourself. It's a it's a it's it's a fun

966
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 2: time and it has it has a couple of great

967
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: twists in it. Is it better than Jaws? Well, intelligent

968
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: intelligent folks can disagree. I think the book of Deep

969
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: Blue cy was better. There may be and there may

970
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: have been a no I had no idea.

971
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 3: I just assumed there wasn't Maybe there was a novelization.

972
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 2: A quick search would indicate that there was not a

973
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: novelization of Deep Blue Sea. Though you know, I'm very

974
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 2: mention in favor of film novelizations, so I wish that

975
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 2: it was not the case. All Right, We're going to

976
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: do one last weird House Cinema listener mail. This one's

977
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 2: from David and it contains major spoilers for Dark City.

978
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: This is a response to our episode, our two part

979
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: look at the movie Dark City. So if you haven't

980
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: seen Dark City and you would like to avoid those spoilers,

981
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 2: and maybe this is a good time to go ahead

982
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: and end your listening of this episode, But for those

983
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: of you who are on boards or spoilers will continue.

984
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 2: David says, hey, guys, it was great to hear you

985
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: discuss Dark City on the two part Weird House Cinema.

986
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: I remember first seeing this back in the nineties and

987
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: have rewatched it earlier this year. There is definitely a

988
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 2: post matrix and other CGI movie lens that make some

989
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: of the effects seem a little pedestrian. One thing that

990
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: I never thought of until listening to the part two

991
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: episode was the food situation. Your discussion of the automat

992
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: and not being touched by human hands really sparked this.

993
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: In the end, John defeats the aliens and gives everyone

994
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: a beach, but is he now responsible for feeding all

995
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: of them? How did the aliens create the food? There

996
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 2: are no farms, crops, or even livestock unless they are

997
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: elsewhere housed on the ship. I presume that the aliens

998
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 2: had to prepare all the food for the human's survival,

999
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 2: or did they maybe use another methods such as injected nutrition.

1000
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: Either way, it's now John's responsibility to ensure this population

1001
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 2: does not starve. It's all well and good to give

1002
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 2: them hope of the beach, but I just don't know

1003
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: how he can manage the nutritional infrastructure. There are also

1004
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 2: other things that go into functioning city that the aliens

1005
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: were taking care of. I can just imagine the massive

1006
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 2: amount of work that John just gave himself and wonder

1007
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 2: if he would have been better off the other way.

1008
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: The sequel to Dark City should be subtitled Getting Tired

1009
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 2: of This anyway. Thanks for the episode and the podcast. David,

1010
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 2: very good question.

1011
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like you you go into a zoo

1012
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 3: and set all the animals free, and it's like you're great,

1013
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 3: now go live. But it's like, how are they gonna

1014
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: get food?

1015
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we see those those great scenes where the

1016
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:32,240
Speaker 2: strangers are meticulously like an assembly line preparing the pocket

1017
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: contents for everyone in the city. I can easily imagine

1018
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: they're also making sandwiches for the automad and so forth,

1019
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: you know, engaging in all of this work. And who's

1020
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: going to do that work? Now?

1021
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, I guess it's it's actually worse than the

1022
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: zoo example, because then you could imagine at least animals

1023
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 3: can forage, there'd be some chance, like this is a

1024
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: thing floating in space. Where does any of the food

1025
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: come from?

1026
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless unless on the other side, where presumably the

1027
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 2: sun or the sunlike energy so has been hanging out

1028
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: the whole time. Maybe they're vast crops and gardens and

1029
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: farms there. But yeah, we just don't know.

1030
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 3: I guess one question is do we ever see what

1031
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: is the full extent of the tuning power that the

1032
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 3: aliens and John Murdock possess. Is it like the Star

1033
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 3: Trek Replicator. Can they just imagine objects into full existence

1034
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: out of bear atoms or do they do they? Is

1035
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 3: it more just kind of a telekinesis kind of shaping

1036
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 3: and moving power.

1037
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we never see him tune a sandwich into existence.

1038
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: That would have answered a lot of questions.

1039
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 3: Or the green jello from the automatic Yeah, make me

1040
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: green yellow.

1041
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: Now it's the greenest food they know of in Dark City.

1042
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 3: No one in Dark City has ever had a salad.

1043
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: It's gonna blow their mind. Yeah, it's a.

1044
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 3: City of just fried eggs and green jello. All right,

1045
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: does that do it for this episode?

1046
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:57,439
Speaker 2: I think that does it for this episode? But hey,

1047
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: we still had a list of males that we didn't

1048
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 2: get to for this episode, and you should certainly keep

1049
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: sending them in because we read everything that comes in.

1050
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 2: We don't get to read everything on the show, but

1051
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 2: if you send it, we will read it, at least

1052
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 2: to ourselves. And as we continue our journey through the holidays,

1053
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: we're going to do more listener mails. We try to

1054
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 2: do one every month or so anyway, but there may

1055
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: be an opportunity to fit in an extra one as

1056
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 2: we proceed. In the meantime, we'll just remind everyone out

1057
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 2: there that's Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a science

1058
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: and culture podcast with core episodes on two season Thursdays

1059
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 2: and on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns to

1060
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,919
Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

1061
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1062
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1063
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1064
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1065
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact Stuff to Blow your

1066
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1067
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1068
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio, app,

1069
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.