Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. Hello, pretty smart people. Happy April.
Speaker 1: I want to say Happy Thursday always, but I know
Speaker 1: some of you don't listen on Thursdays, So happy whatever
Speaker 1: day you are listening. I'm excited to be here with
Speaker 1: you today because today is different. Today's actually a first
Speaker 1: and I haven't said that since February of twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one when we launched. But today is a first because
Speaker 1: I'm doing my first solo episode. And to be quite honest,
Speaker 1: I've never done this in I don't know three years.
Speaker 1: I'm bad at math, but I haven't done it because
Speaker 1: it sort of terrifies me. I am a trained broadcaster, conversationalist, interviewer,
Speaker 1: and the idea of hopping on the mic alone is scary,
Speaker 1: Like what if I'm not interesting alone? I need someone
Speaker 1: to bounce ideas off of. But that's actually what today
Speaker 1: is all about. Today is about how to be a
Speaker 1: great conversationalist. I was thinking about it. I professionally have
Speaker 1: spent over three thousand hours in conversation. I've been doing
Speaker 1: this for like thirteen years, and I've read a ton
Speaker 1: of books. I've read Barbara Walter's book about Conversation, Larry King,
Speaker 1: who's a master of communication, How to talk to anyone, anytime, anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I of course have spent hours and hours in
Speaker 1: conversation and have picked up some things. So I've come
Speaker 1: up with ten pillars of communication. But first, here's why
Speaker 1: I think it's important. I have been absolutely enamored by
Speaker 1: people for well, just as long as I can remember.
Speaker 1: I actually can't remember a time when I haven't been
Speaker 1: fascinated with people's stories and the parts of their lives
Speaker 1: that I don't get to see normally. I think that's
Speaker 1: part of why we love travel, right. But I've had
Speaker 1: boyfriend's joke and tell me it's nosiness, but really it's not.
Speaker 1: It's curiosity. I've always been a person, a kid, an
Speaker 1: adult with a lot of questions, and I feel like
Speaker 1: a great conversation acts like a ripple effect. One motion
Speaker 1: can generate an endless amount of wisdom, and it all
Speaker 1: radiates from the epicenter of a story. Conversations are the
Speaker 1: stuff that life is made out of, especially if you
Speaker 1: come from a conversation first family like I did. I
Speaker 1: remember I would go to friend's houses growing up, and
Speaker 1: their families would turn on the TV at dinner or
Speaker 1: chat politely about their days, and I would look around
Speaker 1: and be like, what's going on here? My family, we
Speaker 1: talked about politics and money and pop culture, and we
Speaker 1: were loud and not afraid to disagree, and there was
Speaker 1: a lot of laughter. I came from one of those
Speaker 1: families where you better have something to say or you're
Speaker 1: just gonna get buried at the dinner table. I come
Speaker 1: from a family of storytellers. Now, when you think of
Speaker 1: a great storyteller, who do you think of? I think
Speaker 1: of a few people. One is my grandfather, Marvin on
Speaker 1: my dad's side. He was a professor with several doctorates,
Speaker 1: and he was a principal. And Yo, that man could talk.
Speaker 1: He was a born orator. He could talk about the
Speaker 1: guy he met at the gym, or he could talk
Speaker 1: about quantum physics. He just wanted to chat. I would
Speaker 1: go to his in my grandmother's house for dinner on
Speaker 1: Sundays and we would sit in their living room and
Speaker 1: it was this very small, very sometimes not clean house.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say it was not clean, but it just was.
Speaker 1: They didn't have a lot, and we would sit in
Speaker 1: their living room and just kibbets, and that's a Yiddish
Speaker 1: word for chat. I come from a chatty family, and
Speaker 1: when I look back, it's no wonder that I got
Speaker 1: into an industry predicated on communication. Broadcast has always been
Speaker 1: sort of named incorrectly for me. People aren't broadcasters, they're communicators. Anyways,
Speaker 1: when I think of great conversationalists, I think of Larry
Speaker 1: King as well. I mean that bellowing voice. He knew
Speaker 1: how to draw people in and there's an art to it.
Speaker 1: I used to sit at the breakfast table with him
Speaker 1: at natean Ow's, which is a deli in Beverly Hills,
Speaker 1: and there'd be a group conversation going, but I would
Speaker 1: always try and sit next to him, and he would
Speaker 1: turn to me aside from the group and just give
Speaker 1: me little nuggets of wisdom. He would say, great storytellers
Speaker 1: never give the joke away at the top of the story,
Speaker 1: or you gotta be a little self deprecating sometimes. And
Speaker 1: one of the things I loved most about Larry was
Speaker 1: his obsession with why he told me one time that
Speaker 1: he would be like five or six years old on
Speaker 1: a bus going to school and he would sit at
Speaker 1: the front of the bus with the driver and just
Speaker 1: chat why do you like driving the bus? And then
Speaker 1: he'd pepper the driver with five more questions, five more
Speaker 1: why questions before they got to school. And I've noticed
Speaker 1: interviewing people that those why questions are the most probing.
Speaker 1: People are much more comfortable sharing the hows and the whats,
Speaker 1: but the whys those are personal. But imagine if we
Speaker 1: were armed with both the courage and the tact to
Speaker 1: prod into the whys of certain behaviors or observations, we
Speaker 1: could learn so much more about others and ultimately ourselves.
Speaker 1: There's a great Medium article by Sarah Coe on her
Speaker 1: love for conversation, and she writes, when we acquire knowledge
Speaker 1: on how we and our loved ones interact with the world,
Speaker 1: we understand the triggers that exist in all of us
Speaker 1: and the context to why we feel the things we feel,
Speaker 1: we do life a little better. So, in an effort
Speaker 1: to do life a little better, which has always been
Speaker 1: one of my goals, I want our shared stories to
Speaker 1: allow us to live better. Today is all about how
Speaker 1: to be a great conversationalist. So we're going to talk
Speaker 1: through those ten pillars. And I also want to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that for some people conversation feels easy and for others
Speaker 1: it can feel really uncomfortable or awkward. But the great
Speaker 1: thing about this is that anyone can be good at it.
Speaker 1: It just takes a little intention and a little practice.
Speaker 1: So the first pillar is to come in curious. Everybody
Speaker 1: you will meet knows something that you don't. You have
Speaker 1: to ask questions until you figure out what that is,
Speaker 1: and then zone in. If you come in curious and
Speaker 1: you start asking somebody questions, they may not engage or
Speaker 1: be interested in the first few, but ultimately you'll figure
Speaker 1: out something that makes them tick because you'll see their
Speaker 1: eyes light up. And if you want to practice, do
Speaker 1: this in an uber or a lyft. It's low stakes,
Speaker 1: and you go in and ultimately, whether it's sports or
Speaker 1: music or anything, you will find something that makes their
Speaker 1: eyes light up and you'll know immediately, and then you
Speaker 1: zone in on that. Number two is respect. Now, part
Speaker 1: of being in conversation is not judging, not criticizing, and
Speaker 1: not imposing. Think about who you feel most open with
Speaker 1: or most comfortable talking to. I guarantee the person who
Speaker 1: just popped into your mind is really not judgmental. They
Speaker 1: take you for who you are, where you are. Now,
Speaker 1: let's give that gift to somebody else. I've said this
Speaker 1: on the pod before, so excuse me if you've heard this,
Speaker 1: but I said to a therapist one time, you give
Speaker 1: me such a gift by hearing me out and not
Speaker 1: judging me, just taking my words at face value. I
Speaker 1: want to be able to give that gift to others.
Speaker 1: And I felt like I was judgmental sometimes. And she
Speaker 1: looked at me and she said, Danielle, you're not going
Speaker 1: to like my answer. And she laughed, and she said,
Speaker 1: the only way to judge others less is to judge
Speaker 1: yourself less. So that one starts as an inside job.
Speaker 1: But I do think that it's really important people really
Speaker 1: feel your respect immediately, and it sets the table. It
Speaker 1: sets the table for the conversation. Number three this is
Speaker 1: another one about questions, which is ask open ended questions.
Speaker 1: Now you learn this in journalism school because there's who, what, where, when,
Speaker 1: why or how? And if I ask you a compacted question,
Speaker 1: you're probably going to give me a simple answer, which
Speaker 1: we don't want. So, for instance, were you terrified when
Speaker 1: the storm started? That person is probably going to say, yeah, terrified,
Speaker 1: that's a short answer. That's what we don't want. Instead,
Speaker 1: you can ask what was that experience, Like, how did
Speaker 1: it feel to live through that storm? What was going
Speaker 1: through your mind when it started raining? Who did you
Speaker 1: call right after the storm was over? Those questions open
Speaker 1: up conversation, and that's something that is hard to do
Speaker 1: in the moment. Sometimes you can think about like writing
Speaker 1: those out and practicing, but in the moment you can
Speaker 1: think about how to avoid a yes or no answer,
Speaker 1: And a lot of those more interesting answers are going
Speaker 1: to start with the what and how questions. You're really
Speaker 1: trying to get someone to stop and think for a minute.
Speaker 1: It's that head tilt, you know, when you ask somebody
Speaker 1: something and they tilt their head and they're thinking, huh
Speaker 1: because they haven't thought about it themselves. That's what those
Speaker 1: what and how questions do. Now, the fourth is to listen,
Speaker 1: and this is not just listen to be present. This
Speaker 1: is listen to learn and understand, not listen to respond.
Speaker 1: And now this is really underrated, and there's a few
Speaker 1: points here. People love to interject their own experiences, because
Speaker 1: we're trying to connect with somebody. If they start talking
Speaker 1: about their aunt, you are definitely I know I do this,
Speaker 1: like I'm compelled to think about well, my aunt. But
Speaker 1: you have to stop yourself because silences and pauses actually
Speaker 1: elicit more conversation because people feel like they need to talk.
Speaker 1: So let them talk, and you're inevitably going to have
Speaker 1: some of those thoughts that come through your mind, like you,
Speaker 1: like we were talking about like your own aunt, but
Speaker 1: you got to let them go. You're definitely going to
Speaker 1: feel the urge to respond, but don't because if you're talking,
Speaker 1: you're not learning. We all know. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: sayings is the most interesting thing is to be interested.
Speaker 1: Think about it this way. A conversation is a game
Speaker 1: of ping pong. You got to hit the ball back
Speaker 1: over the net. Nothing communicates value and respect to a
Speaker 1: person more than asking them what they think. And unless
Speaker 1: you're giving a very formal speech, every encounter should be
Speaker 1: a dialogue, a back and forth. So make sure you
Speaker 1: consciously hit the ball back over the net and give
Speaker 1: the other person the chance to respond, and part of
Speaker 1: that is asking follow up questions. The best listeners I know.
Speaker 1: Never stop with one question. It's like peeling an onion.
Speaker 1: They ask follow up questions and they go deeper each time,
Speaker 1: And honestly, this is where you learn the most and
Speaker 1: also how you add value to one another's lives. A
Speaker 1: very simple one you can ask is how did it
Speaker 1: make you feel when that happened. I'm telling you it
Speaker 1: opens up a whole new line of communication. Thing about listening,
Speaker 1: make sure you're listening with your heart. Words are really
Speaker 1: a small part of any communication. The intellectual exchange we're
Speaker 1: having is really only part of the conversation of the exercise.
Speaker 1: People pick up so much paying attention to nonverbal cues,
Speaker 1: including somebody's eye contact, their tone of voice, their body language.
Speaker 1: Make sure you're listening with your heart. Number five, embrace
Speaker 1: differences while building on commonalities. Everyone is different. That's the
Speaker 1: beauty of it, that's the beauty of conversation. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, there are always commonalities for the differences.
Speaker 1: We embrace them. They make us all unique. We learn
Speaker 1: from each other from our perspectives. But once you find
Speaker 1: that common link. You both love traveling to the Caribbean,
Speaker 1: you both have a fear of elevators. You can build
Speaker 1: on that. It makes people feel connected. Number six, Admit
Speaker 1: that you don't know something. This is actually another thing
Speaker 1: that I learned in journalism school, because everything we say
Speaker 1: is on the record, so we're constantly thinking about our words.
Speaker 1: And people ask me things all of the time that
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert in, and instead of pontificating or
Speaker 1: feeling like I have to give an answer, I just
Speaker 1: say I don't know. Sometimes I say, you're really making
Speaker 1: me think about X, but I don't have an answer.
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure. Let me get back to you,
Speaker 1: And that's okay. Saying you don't know builds trust. I
Speaker 1: think so much of conversation or meeting somebody new, especially
Speaker 1: is feeling out how that person feels about themselves. And
Speaker 1: when somebody says they don't know something, it makes the
Speaker 1: other person feel like they're with a confident person. Number
Speaker 1: seven Transition to a new question. Sometimes when you're in conversation,
Speaker 1: asking questions or transitioning can feel abrupt and it makes
Speaker 1: for a disjointed conversation. You want to avoid that. All
Speaker 1: you have to do is repeat something they just said
Speaker 1: or use a word that they just used in their
Speaker 1: last sentence to pivot. And transition to another thought. It
Speaker 1: feels way less harsh or jolted. This is something you
Speaker 1: learn being a morning TV host, and it's also something
Speaker 1: that works great if you're having a conversation at a
Speaker 1: restaurant or a party. Number eight is also simple building words.
Speaker 1: You know, if you take an improv class, the only
Speaker 1: rule is that you say yes. You say yes, and
Speaker 1: you don't ever turn away from the person offering something
Speaker 1: up to you. And in conversation it's way better to
Speaker 1: use a building word like and than but but makes
Speaker 1: somebody feel like you're turning away from them, or you
Speaker 1: disagree in a way that sometimes isn't necessary. Not that
Speaker 1: disagreement can't be great in a conversation, but see I
Speaker 1: just did it ready. Not that disagreement can't be great
Speaker 1: in a conversation. And you want people to feel connected
Speaker 1: to you and close and comfortable. Number nine. Great conversationalists
Speaker 1: are well read. It's something that I know people who
Speaker 1: are not readers are going to hate that one. But
Speaker 1: reading also can be extended to podcasts, to books on tape,
Speaker 1: to quick Instagram factoids. I say well read because you
Speaker 1: know what builds people's confidence when you ask what they
Speaker 1: think about something. And in order to really imagine this,
Speaker 1: think about a kid. When you ask a ten year
Speaker 1: old kid what they think about a table or a
Speaker 1: light fixture, or how something was built, or do they
Speaker 1: like a TV show? It builds their confidence because it
Speaker 1: makes them know that you're interested in them and that
Speaker 1: you care about their opinion. So people who are well
Speaker 1: read have topics to bring up and talk about in
Speaker 1: these moments. Hey, I just saw an article on X.
Speaker 1: What do you think about? Why makes sense? Number ten?
Speaker 1: Provide positive feedback. A poker face might help when you're
Speaker 1: playing cards, but it does not help build trust or
Speaker 1: develop relationships. People really need confirmation. They need to know
Speaker 1: that you're listening and that you understand them. So if
Speaker 1: you want to nod your head or provide verbal affirmation
Speaker 1: that you are listening and learning, that is really powerful.
Speaker 1: Glancing down at your phone or your watch communicates all
Speaker 1: the wrong things. And here's a little extra tip. Be
Speaker 1: prepared to be amazed, because that is where the magic is.
Speaker 1: I go into most conversations with people just prepared to
Speaker 1: be a amazed by them, and I am rarely disappointed.
Speaker 1: I had some guy drop off my laundry the other
Speaker 1: day and I said, hey, how you doing. Just a
Speaker 1: simple question. I took a second to ask, and he
Speaker 1: told me a whole story about how fifteen years ago
Speaker 1: his son passed away and so he looks at every
Speaker 1: day like a blessing. And I don't want to share
Speaker 1: his whole story. But people are amazing. The human spirit
Speaker 1: is amazing, and you never know what incredible experiences they've had,
Speaker 1: both good and challenging. And if you go in with
Speaker 1: that feeling people, it's contagious. People feel it, they feel
Speaker 1: your interest. A promise you'll feel the magic. Okay, thank
Speaker 1: you for coming to my ted talk. Just kidding. I
Speaker 1: hope these were helpful and this was actually fun. I
Speaker 1: think I'm going to do one about how to ask
Speaker 1: great questions at a later date. But I really believe
Speaker 1: that the quality of our lives depends a lot on
Speaker 1: the quality of our conversations, both with ourselves and with others.
Speaker 1: So get out there and go be chatty in my honor. Please.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been thinking about Larry King a lot lately.
Speaker 1: He was the one that taught me so much about
Speaker 1: questions and conversation. And I end the podcast. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I shared this maybe on the first episode
Speaker 1: I did, but I end the podcast every day with
Speaker 1: or every week with today's a good day to have
Speaker 1: a good day. In his honor. He used to say
Speaker 1: that when I went on his show, we all cheers
Speaker 1: with our coffee mugs and said a little cheers, and
Speaker 1: that was his and I've never forgotten it, So I
Speaker 1: really mean it. Today's a good day to have a
Speaker 1: good day. Go get them. Okay, you know what time
Speaker 1: it is. Today's a good day to have a good day.
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.