1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,399
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Our covera Joe of

2
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,880
Speaker 1: the Trump terariff decision continues with a closer look at

3
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court's majority opinion, which zeroed in on what

4
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,800
Speaker 1: it called a unilateral and transformative expansion of the president's authority.

5
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,360
Speaker 1: Writing for the Plurality, Chief Justice John Roberts said, quote

6
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,640
Speaker 1: that in iipa's half century of existence, no president has

7
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: invoked the statute to impose any teriffts, let alone tariffts

8
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: of this magnitude, and that the lack of historical president,

9
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: coupled with the breadth of authority that the president claimed,

10
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 1: suggested that the teriffs extended beyond his legitimate reach. That

11
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 1: issue a core part of the three lawsuits that led

12
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: to this case, including the lawsuit pressed by twelve Democratic

13
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: state attorneys general, including from California's Rob Bonta. He joins

14
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 1: us right now to talk a little bit more about

15
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: this decision. All right, First, what was your initial reaction

16
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 1: at ten am of Eastern time, that is, when you

17
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 1: heard about the decision?

18
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 2: Not surprising what I expect, having been in the courtroom

19
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 2: at the US Supreme Court for the oral argument and

20
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,840
Speaker 2: very affirming and Most of all, I feel that it's

21
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 2: an important amount of relief that's being delivered for the

22
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 2: American people, including Californians, for consumers who are paying higher prices,

23
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 2: for workers who've lost their jobs, for businesses, including small

24
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,960
Speaker 2: mom and pops who have struggled, some have shuddered their

25
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,320
Speaker 2: businesses never to open again.

26
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 3: So this is.

27
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 2: Important relief delivered to them. And it calls out trumpson

28
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 2: lawfulness for what it is. He literally acted illegally to

29
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 2: raise prices for the American people after saying that he

30
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,319
Speaker 2: was going to lower prices on day one. It was

31
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,039
Speaker 2: a lie his statement, and it was improper and inappropriate.

32
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 2: What he has done. He owes many businesses a refund

33
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 2: and pay up.

34
00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 1: Well, I'm curious about that. I mean, your governor, the

35
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 1: California governor, Gavin Newsom has already weighed in on the

36
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy plus billion dollars that have been

37
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: collected from consumers and companies. Do you think there's any

38
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 1: real legitimate chance that those companies, those consumers are actually

39
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 1: going to see a refund of any portion of that.

40
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you do. And the opinion could have said that

41
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 2: we are making a decision that is prospective only that

42
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,079
Speaker 2: going forward, Trump can no longer use these unlawful tariffs.

43
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,080
Speaker 2: They didn't say that, which makes it very clear that

44
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 2: retro active, retrospective relief is on the table, and there's

45
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 2: a pathway to do this. You go to the Court

46
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 2: of International Trade if you're a business and importer that

47
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 2: had to pay the unlawful tariffs, and you seek a

48
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,239
Speaker 2: refund through what's called the refund to action. And typically

49
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 2: generally and it would be fair and just here if

50
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 2: your money is unlawfully withheld from you, if you had

51
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 2: to pay something based on an unlawful tariff, you should

52
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 2: get interest on it. So I think you're going to

53
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 2: see a lot of refund actions being brought against the

54
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,119
Speaker 2: Trump administration for these unlawful tariffs that have been struck down.

55
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,440
Speaker 3: Well, is that something that California as a state plans

56
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,640
Speaker 3: to do. I mean, you know, as we go through

57
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,400
Speaker 3: this process when it comes to demanding refunds, I mean,

58
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 3: is that action that California would.

59
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 2: Take very potentially, Yes, you know, we had a case

60
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 2: in the North District of California that we are now

61
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 2: will be transferred to or commenced in the Court of

62
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 2: International Trade. Which the US Supreme Court today said is

63
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 2: the appropriate court, and that's where we could seek a

64
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,959
Speaker 2: refund action for California, for the state of California, not

65
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 2: the businesses, not the who paid the unlawful tariff. So

66
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 2: to the extent that California has been hurt by these tariffs,

67
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 2: had to pay higher prices because of these tariffs. Yes,

68
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 2: we could pursue a refund action in the Court of

69
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 2: International Trade, and we're discussing all of our options now.

70
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 1: Well.

71
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 3: We will certainly keep an eye out there for any action.

72
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 3: I do want to ask about the statement that you

73
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 3: issued following the Supreme Court decision. You wrote that the

74
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 3: Trump administration's a legal and chaotic terraf regime has come

75
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 3: to an end. Of course, in the hours since, we've

76
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 3: heard from the President directly saying that, you know, he

77
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 3: still plans to pursue tariffs. It's just AIPA that was

78
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 3: ruled against here today. And with that in mind, I mean,

79
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 3: how do you see this evolving? You think about all

80
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 3: the different sections that he can tap, it seems like

81
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 3: when it comes to the terriff regime, it's actually far

82
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:19,400
Speaker 3: from over.

83
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 2: I think he'll try again, and you know, in some

84
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 2: of his statements today were very remarkable, almost claiming victory

85
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 2: in the face of very clear defeat. I mean, this

86
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,720
Speaker 2: is an embarrassing loss in front of the US Supreme

87
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 2: Court on his you know, key policy proposal of his administration.

88
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 2: It was unlawful and it was not even close. It

89
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 2: was clearly unlawful, a six' three loss in front of THE. U.

90
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 2: S Supreme. Court and he very may well try to

91
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 2: implement other tariffs through other. Pathways those were always available to.

92
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 2: Him to be, clear there's prerequisites for those tariffs to be,

93
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 2: implemented there's limits on those, tariffs there's limits in duration

94
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 2: in a. Mouth so we'll see what he, does and we'll.

95
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 2: Assess we've brought fifty eight lawsuits in less than fifty

96
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 2: eight weeks against A trump administration for repeated illegal, conduct

97
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 2: and so we will assess whether any of his actions

98
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,839
Speaker 2: going forward in the tariff's space or lawful or. Not

99
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 2: and if he breaks the lag in and Hurts california,

100
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 2: again we'll take him to.

101
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: Court, Well i'm just, sorry just real, quickly, Though. ROB i,

102
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: mean looking at the dissenting, opinions and particularly The kavanaugh

103
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: opinion who explicitly in his words said the president did

104
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 1: have the. Authority does that become the basis for The

105
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,279
Speaker 1: trump administration to move forward with something even under the

106
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: construct of A.

107
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:39,320
Speaker 2: Epa, WELL apa is off the, table so he can

108
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 2: longer USE aiba to impost tariffs he. Tried he. Lost

109
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 2: THE apa doesn't mention the word tariffs has never been

110
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 2: used in nearly fifty years of its existence to impost.

111
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 2: Tariffs but, yeah The kavanaugh descent did sort of set

112
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 2: forth a blueprint That trump might want to pursue in

113
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 2: terms of other statutes that do provide the opportunity for

114
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 2: him potentially to implement. Terrorists but the POINT i was,

115
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 2: making and the majority makes us, too is that those

116
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 2: other statutes don't give full discretion to im implement and

117
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 2: impose all the tariffs that he tried to impose UNDER,

118
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,239
Speaker 2: apa and he tried to impose tariffs against every single

119
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,360
Speaker 2: one of our trade partners under A. Epa those other

120
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 2: statutes have, Limits they have, Prerequisites they have limits in,

121
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:23,040
Speaker 2: duration limits in. Amount so he may take action using

122
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 2: those other, statutes but he will be. Limited all, right have.

123
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,280
Speaker 3: To leave it. There really appreciate your. Time that Is

124
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 3: California Attorney General Rob bonta