Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather
Speaker 1: Friends Media. You are the start.
Speaker 2: You remember the beginning of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: It feels like it's been years since the beginning of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. What exactly are you remembering?
Speaker 2: I was thinking about us talking about what stories we
Speaker 2: were looking for to consuming and creating. I said, I
Speaker 2: wanted to read more nonfiction classics, finish my book, and
Speaker 2: write short stories. So thinking about like the new year
Speaker 2: and things we want to see in the future, I
Speaker 2: am thinking about like what stories I want to read, watch,
Speaker 2: listen to, and just like what I'm going to be
Speaker 2: on the lookout for.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember that, And I said I wanted
Speaker 1: to read more folk tales and write more about nature
Speaker 1: and the environment. So some of the things that I
Speaker 1: want to explore in the new year are stories that
Speaker 1: are centered around local and regional folklore. And that's because
Speaker 1: I do like fantasy. I like being in imagined worlds.
Speaker 1: I like world building in certain ways, but things that
Speaker 1: have really rich characters in them. And I feel like
Speaker 1: there's so much that I want to learn about the
Speaker 1: world and the people in the world.
Speaker 2: I thought it's time of checking on our goals, share
Speaker 2: our progress and what we've been writing, and give reviews
Speaker 2: on our latest frees. Okay, let's do it. I'm Eves
Speaker 2: and I'm Katie. Today's episode, Same year news stories, So
Speaker 2: let's hear an update on the writing front.
Speaker 1: The writing front is stressful because I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: never doing enough for myself. I haven't been writing as
Speaker 1: much environmental and horror fiction and fiction or it just
Speaker 1: works in general about nature as I wanted to. I've
Speaker 1: been able to work on some updates on some old
Speaker 1: stories that I was putting together. I've also been able
Speaker 1: to work a little bit on my book, but a
Speaker 1: lot of my time has been taken up with writing
Speaker 1: about history and writing about black people too. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's how my writing is going. But it's been
Speaker 1: I will say I've gotten a lot of words out.
Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot of words out, but were they
Speaker 1: always the words that I really wanted to be putting
Speaker 1: on the page in the moment?
Speaker 2: So tell us more about your stories.
Speaker 1: So I am working on a story that it has
Speaker 1: a beginning and an ending. It's probably about I don't
Speaker 1: know three hundred three thousand words right now, but I've
Speaker 1: been working on it, but it just needs something else.
Speaker 1: It's about the game of knocking on doors and running
Speaker 1: with a group of black kids, and it ends up
Speaker 1: in this kind of like fantastical place that they find
Speaker 1: themselves in in this dilapidated building, and there is a
Speaker 1: group of adults that they meet and they're not really
Speaker 1: sure what's going on. But I really don't like the
Speaker 1: ending right now, like something needs to be refined in it.
Speaker 1: In the story, I'm thinking about abandonment, like I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about like having a close knit group of friends as
Speaker 1: a black child in the South. Specifically, I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: what it means to show up for children in a way.
Speaker 1: But I think some of my themes might shift as
Speaker 1: I like figure out more where I want to go
Speaker 1: with the story. But it definitely needs several more drafts.
Speaker 2: I would say, how many of them are you said
Speaker 2: you're updating it.
Speaker 1: It's one of those stories that I wrote probably like
Speaker 1: a year ago and have been just like touching it
Speaker 1: every now and then since then.
Speaker 2: Do you know what you want to do with it?
Speaker 2: Is it like you post it online? Are you? Is
Speaker 2: it a part of a collection.
Speaker 1: I've sent it out, but I still would like it
Speaker 1: to be in a different place.
Speaker 2: So explain to people what you mean when you say
Speaker 2: sent it out to some places.
Speaker 1: When I say sent it out, I mean submitting it
Speaker 1: to literary journals to be published in their pages.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so you wanted to stand on its own Yes.
Speaker 1: That's correct. Yea. I wanted to be its own story.
Speaker 1: I've thought about expanding it for a minute. I thought
Speaker 1: about turning it into like potentially like novel, but I
Speaker 1: don't think I want to take it there. It felt
Speaker 1: right as a story. Once I tried to start doing that,
Speaker 1: I was like, nah, this is a story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some things are better short.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you said you're writing about history.
Speaker 1: Yes, and that is work that's not for myself, that's
Speaker 1: for other people. But so, you know, one of those
Speaker 1: obligation things. I mean, I'm not going to complain about.
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to be able to write and get paid
Speaker 1: for it. But I have been writing quite a bit
Speaker 1: about history, about the civil rights movement, about civil rights leaders,
Speaker 1: about leisure. Yeah. I've been doing some of that work,
Speaker 1: and that's been taken up a lot of my time.
Speaker 2: So in this writing process, have you learned anything?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think I've learned. Content wise, I've learned
Speaker 1: some things. I feel like it's a never ending process,
Speaker 1: but learning a lot about the craft of writing and
Speaker 1: being able to hone in on a specific moment and
Speaker 1: be able to really get people to step into a
Speaker 1: moment and feel like they're there and be invested in
Speaker 1: the motivations of the characters, and to build an arc
Speaker 1: that is actually one that people want to follow. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of the time I get lost in
Speaker 1: all of the small details and I try to fit
Speaker 1: in as many as possible, and I am unable to
Speaker 1: see the whole for all of the small details a
Speaker 1: lot of the time. And that it's like if I'm
Speaker 1: on deadline or if I'm writing for somebody else and
Speaker 1: there's the word limit me eves, it's probably gonna go over.
Speaker 1: Like you know, that comes first, and then getting down
Speaker 1: to the meat and potatoes and like making it something
Speaker 1: that feels alive. I guess comes a little bit later,
Speaker 1: which I guess is typical, but you know, just refine
Speaker 1: that for myself. So what about you, Katie, What do
Speaker 1: you have going on in writing land?
Speaker 2: I have submitted my book, so the first draft and
Speaker 2: the second draft are done, and I was looking back
Speaker 2: at my book proposal and I really undersold what I
Speaker 2: turned in. I was like, girl, you could have get
Speaker 2: some about buddy. I undersold it. And I think it's
Speaker 2: interesting because you can see like the the growth I
Speaker 2: had and just knowledge. It was a lot of things
Speaker 2: that I didn't know until I started researching it and
Speaker 2: started talking to people, and it's like, oh, well, there's
Speaker 2: no way this can't go in the book. But when
Speaker 2: I proposed it, I just had no idea it existed.
Speaker 2: So I think an exercise in like journalism that I'd
Speaker 2: never had before.
Speaker 1: For real.
Speaker 2: It was a lot of research, a lot of talking
Speaker 2: to people, and then like synthesizing that in a way
Speaker 2: that would be interesting. And it's profiles of bookstores from
Speaker 2: eighteen thirty six to twenty twenties, and so each profile
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, gotta say something different about this bookstore.
Speaker 2: And I think black bookstores are always like put together, like, oh,
Speaker 2: here's a list of fifty block bookstores. Here's a list
Speaker 2: of these block bookstores support these block bookstores. So they're
Speaker 2: kind of put all together in a group, and it's like,
Speaker 2: what can I say that's interesting about each one? What's
Speaker 2: something that's really funny that happened at these bookstores. What's
Speaker 2: something that no newspaper, you know, no social media posts
Speaker 2: has said about this bookstore. And I feel like I
Speaker 2: was being like kind of selfish in that way. I
Speaker 2: was like, I want all the details tell people. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: don't tell me all the other stuff you told people,
Speaker 2: because I already read it when I was researching them.
Speaker 2: It's like I want something new. And it's like talking
Speaker 2: to people and they have like their stump speech, and
Speaker 2: like I have it too when people talk to me
Speaker 2: about stuff and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what's really going on,
Speaker 2: you know, like trying to break that down for them.
Speaker 2: So that's been a lot. And also I learn is
Speaker 2: that writing is I would say, like a tenth of it.
Speaker 2: It's really editing. I have never edited something so much
Speaker 2: like myself, not like having an editor. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to edit this like three or four times before
Speaker 2: the editor even sees it. And so like seeing how
Speaker 2: that has progressed, and seeing just like all the tricks
Speaker 2: to make something just interesting, Like you can be saying
Speaker 2: giving people the same information, but if you're saying it
Speaker 2: in a way that uses all these like rhetorical devices.
Speaker 2: It's like way more fun to read. It was more
Speaker 2: fun for me to write and like put my name on.
Speaker 2: So that is what is going on with the book.
Speaker 1: So as you've gone through that editing process, do you
Speaker 1: feel like you've gotten more proud of your work.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I'm a proud a person generally, so sure, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I started at zero. Now we're here, and I have
Speaker 2: not been writing short stories. I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: Ahead and admit it.
Speaker 2: I ain't right. I ain't reading one short story. It's
Speaker 2: funny because I'll be having so many ideas for a
Speaker 2: short story, like I have a collection, I have the
Speaker 2: overall theme, I have each story in my head. They're
Speaker 2: so funny. I'm like, I don't know, maybe they're just
Speaker 2: for me to laugh at in my head until you
Speaker 2: get them on the page. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've never written fiction for real, and it's just something
Speaker 2: that I I don't know. I'm just a real ass
Speaker 2: beach for real, So I don't even know if I
Speaker 2: can make it up for it.
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 2: After the break, we'll get into what we're reading and
Speaker 2: if we recommend you read it.
Speaker 1: Too, stay with us.
Speaker 2: So earlier this year, I said I wanted to read
Speaker 2: more classic nonfiction, and I ain't gonna hold you. I
Speaker 2: have not been doing that, but I have gotten into
Speaker 2: classic fiction. Okay. As someone who's on book talk and bookstrogram,
Speaker 2: it's easy to get swept up in all the new releases.
Speaker 2: But there's definitely a lot of books that were published
Speaker 2: way before I was born that I never got around
Speaker 2: to reading. One of them being The Street by Anne Petrie.
Speaker 2: Have you read it?
Speaker 1: I think I started that book and didn't finish it. Oh,
Speaker 1: you ain't like it.
Speaker 2: It didn't hold your attention.
Speaker 1: I want to say that I get distracted, but tell
Speaker 1: me where.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's the synopsis. So the Street was published
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty six, and it is among the earliest
Speaker 2: novels published by a black American woman to receive national
Speaker 2: critical acclaim in literary prestige. It's set in World War
Speaker 2: two era black Harlem. So the Street is rough, and
Speaker 2: the Street becomes a character itself. It's so present, But
Speaker 2: I'm getting ahead of myself. The novel centers Luddy Johnson.
Speaker 2: She's cute, she's hard working. She has an eight year
Speaker 2: old son named bub An alcoholic father and a cheating
Speaker 2: husband who she quickly leaves after she finds out that
Speaker 2: he's using the money she sends back home from working
Speaker 2: as a live in maid for white folks to shack
Speaker 2: up with another woman, so she finds an apartment and
Speaker 2: building in Harlem. The building isn't great. There's prostitution, folks fighting,
Speaker 2: a creepy souper who becomes obsessed with Leuddy and assaults her.
Speaker 2: She really is trying to make enough money to move
Speaker 2: into a better neighborhood with bub. She tries out singing
Speaker 2: in a nightclub, but the white man who owns the
Speaker 2: building she's in has other plans for her, and she's
Speaker 2: forced to stand up against all the bullshit that's been
Speaker 2: thrown her way. When I finished this book, I was like, no,
Speaker 2: not my gird.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I definitely don't say anything because I don't
Speaker 1: want it to be spoiled. I'll probably read it.
Speaker 2: Okay, no spoilers. But I really felt deeply for these
Speaker 2: characters in particular. It felt like they were real and
Speaker 2: I want to reach into the book and save them.
Speaker 1: And that didn't make you want to write fiction.
Speaker 2: No, I it made me not want to because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't do that. I don't have the range.
Speaker 1: So when you were reading it, did you feel like
Speaker 1: you were paying attention to the craft, like how she
Speaker 1: was building from one moment to the next, or were you.
Speaker 2: Just fully I was wrapped up in it. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: was wrapped up in the story. I think there's sometimes
Speaker 2: when I can do that, but I think I can
Speaker 2: do that more with nonfiction. I see what you're doing there, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I got it. I think maybe when I'm like listening
Speaker 2: to like comedy specials, I can see what they're doing,
Speaker 2: you know, with the callbacks and you know.
Speaker 1: That's a very specific example why comedy specials.
Speaker 2: I don't know why I can see it, but I can.
Speaker 2: I don't know because like comedy specials, they're presented as nonfiction.
Speaker 2: They're not one hundred percent nonfiction but auto fiction. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I was wrapped up in the story.
Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me more about Letdy.
Speaker 2: I identified with her, like she understands like what she's
Speaker 2: up against as far as you know, the economics of
Speaker 2: it all, the sexism of it all. But she's like,
Speaker 2: you know, I got my son, and I got to
Speaker 2: make it work. Like she doesn't really mention her mom.
Speaker 2: I think her mom died, and her dad ain't really
Speaker 2: much help. He's like an okay guy. He'll like watch
Speaker 2: the baby sometimes, but you know, he got his own
Speaker 2: stuff going on. And then her husband's not helping her.
Speaker 2: So she's like, you know, I gotta get it out
Speaker 2: of the mud. I gotta do what I gotta do.
Speaker 2: So you know i'd be getting out the mud. I'm
Speaker 2: just like, oh God. But you can like really see
Speaker 2: like she's really trying, like you know, like you you
Speaker 2: be rooting for people. She was a central character and
Speaker 2: then like all the people like she came in contact with,
Speaker 2: you could see how they were like working towards her
Speaker 2: betterment or like working against it, and unfortunately there are
Speaker 2: more people working against it. And then so you identify
Speaker 2: with her and you root it for her. But did
Speaker 2: you feel like she was an unlikable character or a
Speaker 2: likable one? No, she was likable. I feel like the
Speaker 2: author made her likable, Like she wasn't a pushover, but
Speaker 2: you could tell like she had good intentions for her
Speaker 2: and her son, and she peeped when people were being weird,
Speaker 2: and you know, she wasn't shy about you know, expressing that,
Speaker 2: but yeah, she was liable to me.
Speaker 1: Okay, So besides Luddy, who are some of the other
Speaker 1: characters that you found compelling or that you really felt
Speaker 1: aligned with? Aligned with?
Speaker 2: None of them, But there was a character. It was
Speaker 2: a woman who lived in her same building. And the
Speaker 2: way she's described is she'd just be sitting in her window,
Speaker 2: like washing the street. She knows everything's gone on the street.
Speaker 2: And she also was a madam, so she was pimping
Speaker 2: out girls out of her apartment, which you would think
Speaker 2: is like not that likable, like, but I still liked her,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Did she feel like a mother figure in there? Because
Speaker 1: that's often how madams are portrayed.
Speaker 2: She was by her business, you know that she was
Speaker 2: by her business. But there's, like I want to say,
Speaker 2: like multiple situations in the book where women go to her.
Speaker 2: Not women that she pimping out, but women who live
Speaker 2: in the building go to her for help and she
Speaker 2: helps them and she don't charge them, and she like
Speaker 2: protects the women in the building, even the ones that
Speaker 2: aren't living with her, and so she like helps out Letty,
Speaker 2: she helps out another woman who's like being mistreated in
Speaker 2: the building. So you know, even though she has her flaws.
Speaker 2: I was like, I see what you're doing. Her name
Speaker 2: is miss Hedges.
Speaker 1: I think, So what were your expectations when you went
Speaker 1: into the book?
Speaker 2: They're pretty neutral. It's an older book, and sometimes older
Speaker 2: books like will have like outdated language or just like
Speaker 2: situations that you really can't relate to as a twenty
Speaker 2: first century guawl. So they're neutral. But I do like
Speaker 2: books from around this time period too, So I read
Speaker 2: like Passings or like around the time period, like the twenties,
Speaker 2: So I do like books on that time period. Black
Speaker 2: nol More set in that same time period or they're
Speaker 2: about so I was like, okay, kind of neutral, just
Speaker 2: like open and open mind. I know people have said
Speaker 2: they really liked it. It was a classic. Some classics
Speaker 2: don't be good, oh no, some don't be hidden. So
Speaker 2: that was neutral.
Speaker 1: So without spoiling it, what did you make of the
Speaker 1: ending of the book?
Speaker 2: Me, personally, I wouldn't have written that ending, okay, but
Speaker 2: I think it was an appropriate ending.
Speaker 1: That did not sound like that was positive to me
Speaker 1: because when you say appropriate, that sounds safe, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't safe. Okay, it wasn't safe, but it was.
Speaker 2: Like the ending I would have written would have been
Speaker 2: like fantastical, like girl, does ding' happen? Like it's not
Speaker 2: like the thing that would happen like something miraculous would
Speaker 2: have had to go down from my endings happened.
Speaker 1: Did it seem like other editors or the publisher might
Speaker 1: have had their hand in the ending that was written.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me to say. I don't know what
Speaker 2: her writing process was. And that was my first book
Speaker 2: I've read from her. I know she has a couple
Speaker 2: more that i'm that are on my list to read.
Speaker 2: But I think looking back and how she set everything up,
Speaker 2: it was probably gonna end that way.
Speaker 1: Would you read it again?
Speaker 2: I don't be reading books twice.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I do know that about you. So I
Speaker 1: know there is assault in the book. How did that
Speaker 1: portrayal impact you as a reader.
Speaker 2: It was like a very suspenseful scene. I am glad
Speaker 2: that it wasn't like so graphic. It was physical assault,
Speaker 2: but it was racistin so I'm like, oh, no, it's
Speaker 2: gonna happen to my girl. No, no, no, like you know,
Speaker 2: trying to race through to see what happens. And then
Speaker 2: but in that scene you see like again the women
Speaker 2: coming to another woman's aid, which I think is a
Speaker 2: theme in the book.
Speaker 1: So how do you feel like she was able to
Speaker 1: build that suspense at the moment, Like, thinking back on it,
Speaker 1: do you kind of see the moves that she did
Speaker 1: to get there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she foreshadowed that the person that was
Speaker 2: going to assault her was like obsessed with her and
Speaker 2: like creepy and just like leering, So you kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: something's going to go down here. And they she always
Speaker 2: talks about like how beautiful she is and shapely and
Speaker 2: a good singer. She's just like truly the baddest bitch
Speaker 2: on the street. Yeah, so you're like, okay, like if
Speaker 2: someone just like doesn't respect, you know, another person's autonomy
Speaker 2: like they would, she would be the person that they're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to take you. So she she did some
Speaker 2: foreshadowing for sure. And the version that I read, Tyari
Speaker 2: Jones wrote the intro, which I don't always like reading
Speaker 2: intros by someone that's not the author, but I think
Speaker 2: TYRII did a good job because she was talking about
Speaker 2: like her experience reading it for the first time in
Speaker 2: college at Spelman, and she put it in conversation with
Speaker 2: other books that she read during that class and how
Speaker 2: they portrayed women differently, and this book portrayed women more dynamically.
Speaker 2: So I think she did like a good setup. She
Speaker 2: gave some like all right, she's gonna get assalted, so
Speaker 2: it wasn't like a shock. But yeah, I liked how
Speaker 2: tire you did that. She did that, good job, Tire.
Speaker 1: So ultimately, would you recommend this book to someone else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think anyone who like fiction, historical fiction, even
Speaker 2: though it doesn't read us historical fiction, would like it.
Speaker 2: I think if you like character studies plus good plot,
Speaker 2: you would like it. And yeah, if you're like me
Speaker 2: and trying to read more classics and not just be
Speaker 2: on every Tuesday looking to see what new book is out,
Speaker 2: this would be a good place to start. After the break,
Speaker 2: we'll hear what Ease is reading.
Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed hearing you talk about The Street
Speaker 1: by Anptree. You have recommended it, so now I will
Speaker 1: move it up higher on my list. So yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: excited for that, because, like I said, I do I
Speaker 1: need some more fiction in my life. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if this sounds like the lightest book to bring in now,
Speaker 1: but I'm looking forward to reading it because I already
Speaker 1: know about Amptrie and like, you know, started it and
Speaker 1: didn't finish it, so I'm going to go back to it.
Speaker 1: But as to be expected, what I have been reading
Speaker 1: is nonfiction, and I read Black women writers at work.
Speaker 1: I read nonfiction, but I don't read I read craft sometimes.
Speaker 1: And I think I actually kind of revising what I
Speaker 1: said at the beginning of the year want to read
Speaker 1: craft books more. I've actually enjoyed the craft books that
Speaker 1: I have read. I think the thing with craft is
Speaker 1: that it can really compound if you don't integrate it.
Speaker 1: It's like you get all of this knowledge about craft,
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, Wow, that's a great technique or that's
Speaker 1: a good tactic that I can use in writing. This
Speaker 1: will really help me get my stuff together, and then
Speaker 1: you know, you move on to the next craft book
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, that's a great idea, Like oh.
Speaker 2: I need to implement it.
Speaker 1: You got to implement it. So yeah. But this book
Speaker 1: was edited by Claudia Tate, and I I've never read
Speaker 1: it before, so I figured now would be a fitting time.
Speaker 1: It was published in nineteen eighty three and in the book,
Speaker 1: Claudia Tate interviews a bunch of legendary writers, telling me Morrison,
Speaker 1: Alice Walker, and Audrey Lower, just to name a few,
Speaker 1: And it is exactly how it sounds like. Tait kind
Speaker 1: of cycles through some of the same questions as she's
Speaker 1: talking to the different writers. There is never any lingering
Speaker 1: too long on a question, like they get in and
Speaker 1: out of the questions and the interviews. They don't really
Speaker 1: dive too deeply in thought depending on the person, because
Speaker 1: some people are more long winded than others. And you know,
Speaker 1: I mean there are fourteen writers featured in the book's
Speaker 1: only two hundred pages long, so you know there aren't
Speaker 1: manifestos the writers. They talk about what they're working on,
Speaker 1: they talk about how they portray black people in their work,
Speaker 1: and they talk about their process of writing. And it's
Speaker 1: the peak behind the curtain that you get when you
Speaker 1: read the book.
Speaker 2: So does any one question and answer stand out to
Speaker 2: you from the book?
Speaker 1: I like Maya Angelou's interview and the book. And there's
Speaker 1: a point when Claudia Tate asks her about all of
Speaker 1: the different things that she does, and she's asking her
Speaker 1: about what the source of such creative diversity is and
Speaker 1: this kind of question I like, and it's something I
Speaker 1: think about a lot with not just writers, but all
Speaker 1: kinds of women in history, Like I'm often researching women
Speaker 1: in history, and this is a question I think about
Speaker 1: a lot. And I'm honestly motivated and inspired by when
Speaker 1: I hear other people talk about how they balance all
Speaker 1: of the other things that they do in their life,
Speaker 1: because sometimes I just want to do stuff, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, there's not enough time for everything,
Speaker 1: or I need to focus on one thing. But I
Speaker 1: think keeping in mind or keeping top of mind the
Speaker 1: idea of experimentation and always being open to being bad
Speaker 1: at things trying new things is something helpful for me
Speaker 1: to keep in mind as a writer for the content
Speaker 1: of my writing work and for the craft of it.
Speaker 1: But just like how I choose to move in life
Speaker 1: with all parts of my creativity in my personal life
Speaker 1: and profession. So Angelou talks about it, and she says,
Speaker 1: I don't do the dancing anymore, the rest I try.
Speaker 1: I believe talent is like electricity. We don't understand electricity,
Speaker 1: we use it. And then she goes on to say
Speaker 1: that it makes no judgment and she talks a little
Speaker 1: bit more about talent. So there are other parts of
Speaker 1: the book that I enjoy, but sometimes some things just
Speaker 1: snap for me, like they just click. And I think
Speaker 1: electricity is a good metaphor for me to be able
Speaker 1: to kind of parse that in my mind. Although some
Speaker 1: of the questions around talent I think deserve a little
Speaker 1: bit more talking about because it's such a nebulous thing,
Speaker 1: like talent, where does it come from? Is it something
Speaker 1: you're born with? And all of that, What can you
Speaker 1: grow in your life? What can you work on? What's
Speaker 1: the peak of whatever you're going to do? And all
Speaker 1: that subjective any life. But I liked that part.
Speaker 2: Were there any interviews where you're like, I ain't picking
Speaker 2: out what you're putting down?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were for me Nikki Giovanni's So yeah, I
Speaker 1: really respect and admire Nikki Giovanni, but I think her
Speaker 1: you know, different people resonate with you in different ways,
Speaker 1: and for me, and this was also a long time ago,
Speaker 1: like this was written in the eighties, I think, so
Speaker 1: I really felt like there were a lot of let's
Speaker 1: just say, there were a lot of long paragraphs in
Speaker 1: her interview. There was a lot of poetry in her
Speaker 1: as would make sense in her interview, and I think
Speaker 1: sometimes to me it felt a little like instead of like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help you as a black woman writer,
Speaker 1: to other black women writers who don't really know what
Speaker 1: they're doing, or who have a lot of growth to do,
Speaker 1: who don't have the statue that I do, you know,
Speaker 1: who don't have the experience and knowledge that I do.
Speaker 1: You know, I was kind of hoping to be talked
Speaker 1: to like that, and I didn't feel like I was
Speaker 1: necessarily talked to like that in her interview. It felt
Speaker 1: more like I've been doing this for a long time,
Speaker 1: and why are you not doing it this way? Like
Speaker 1: it felt a little judgmental or like speak downy to
Speaker 1: me in some.
Speaker 2: Ways, Okay, I feel like you have to back it up, okay.
Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting because the writers are talking
Speaker 1: to the audience, like the people that will be reading
Speaker 1: the book, but they're also talking to Claudia Tate. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting to see the different dynamics between the writer
Speaker 1: that Claudia Tate's interviewing and Tate herself. And so I
Speaker 1: think in this instance, I was jarred by the relationship
Speaker 1: between or the banter between Nicki Giovanni and Claudia Tate,
Speaker 1: like it felt like there was a little bit of
Speaker 1: friction there to me, because Niki Giovanni comes in hot,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, she immediately starts questioning her questions. Is
Speaker 1: what it feels like?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: And so the first question that is in the interview
Speaker 1: in the book is Claudia Tate asks, the black revolutionary
Speaker 1: fervor of the sixties seems to be gone. We no
Speaker 1: longer even hear the rhetoric. Does this suggest that the
Speaker 1: revolution is over? So this book's in the eighties, it's
Speaker 1: about two decades after the sixties. They've gone through the seventies.
Speaker 1: That was a huge cultural shift. The eighties. The whole
Speaker 1: decade was a little weird in general. But so that's
Speaker 1: the question. And then Nikki Giovanni immediately comes back and says,
Speaker 1: I bought three new windows for my mother's basement. Have
Speaker 1: you ever bought windows for your mother's basement? It's revolutionary,
Speaker 1: it really is. And then she's like, I have a
Speaker 1: problem I think I should share with you. For the
Speaker 1: most part, this question is boring. And then she goes
Speaker 1: on a takedown and I'm like, okay, like fair like
Speaker 1: she goes on to talk about how she says everybody
Speaker 1: looks at a phenomenon as if it were finished, Like
Speaker 1: I get it, Like come on, now, you know we
Speaker 1: move in different ways in different decades, Like everybody looks back.
Speaker 1: When you're looking at something in hindsight, then it could
Speaker 1: seem so large and like we're not doing the right
Speaker 1: thing anymore. Things have changed so much all of that,
Speaker 1: But I have to say that I was like, I
Speaker 1: might need to put this interview down when I kept
Speaker 1: reading it and she kept calling things boring. She was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that bores me. I'm bored by that. And there were
Speaker 1: a lot of moments like that in this interview where
Speaker 1: she kind of really pushed back against Claudia Tate's questions
Speaker 1: in ways I think may have been a little bit
Speaker 1: too much and not productive for something where you're trying
Speaker 1: to help other writers learn things. And I bump up
Speaker 1: against the word boring too, because it takes conditions to
Speaker 1: consider something boring, because you have to think about, like
Speaker 1: what is something that excites you? Or like what is
Speaker 1: it about something that makes you bored about it? Like
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too philosophical about it, but
Speaker 1: bored is not something that I just was expecting to
Speaker 1: see come up so much in the interview that she
Speaker 1: did with her and her responses to her, so I
Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, well that's cool. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think there were moments like that, and that's what I
Speaker 1: was bumping up against in her interview, and that was
Speaker 1: so different than all of the relationships, the rapport that
Speaker 1: have been formed in the interviews that came before it.
Speaker 1: So once I got to that one, I was like, Oh, like,
Speaker 1: I'm getting to see Nikki Giovanni in this way that
Speaker 1: I've never seen before in you know, other spaces.
Speaker 2: So reading this book, how did you feel as a writer?
Speaker 1: I felt pretty inadequate in a lot of ways. And
Speaker 1: I felt that a little bit after reading Nikki Giovanni
Speaker 1: because I was like, Oh, she's a really good writer
Speaker 1: and she's saying all this, and I feel a little bad.
Speaker 1: But I felt like inspired and also inadequate at the
Speaker 1: same time. So I felt inspired because of the terms
Speaker 1: of phrase. Usually that's what gets me to connect to something,
Speaker 1: even if it's a concept I may have explored or
Speaker 1: thought about before. So if it's like a process of writing,
Speaker 1: then somebody just has a different turn of phrase and
Speaker 1: I connect with it. Then I'm like, oh, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and I think that's inspiring and that makes me feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm a writer and I understand the language of being
Speaker 1: a writer. I know they're not parameters around that necessarily,
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, like, for my own confidence and
Speaker 1: for how I choose to like uplift myself and considering
Speaker 1: myself a writer, I get to see these terms of
Speaker 1: phrase and be like, oh, I understand that that's something
Speaker 1: that I'm like, Okay, so yeah, I write I've been
Speaker 1: doing this and I understand that language because I've actually
Speaker 1: cared about my work and like been in the work.
Speaker 1: As much as I can have doubts around like me
Speaker 1: being an actual writer. Sometimes I have to reel myself
Speaker 1: back in and remind myself that I actually do do
Speaker 1: the work and I still love it. So I think
Speaker 1: that was one thing that's inspirational to me. And on
Speaker 1: the other hand, it felt like I felt inadequate in
Speaker 1: some moments because these people are names that I can say,
Speaker 1: and they feel like really large names because they have
Speaker 1: really prolific bodies of work. Like sometimes I'll be like,
Speaker 1: over the last ten years I wrote fourteen novels. I'm like, dang,
Speaker 1: I ain't do that. And I've been writing for ten years.
Speaker 1: So in moments like that, I feel like I'm playing, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I feel like I could be there if I
Speaker 1: had moved differently, and maybe if I had been, you know,
Speaker 1: working on novels from ten years ago, I could have
Speaker 1: fourteen right now too. So in moments like that, when
Speaker 1: I start to compare myself to where they are, especially
Speaker 1: this being back in the eighties, then I can start
Speaker 1: to feel inadequate. And another thing too, going back to
Speaker 1: the inspiration, is that when people talk about process, then
Speaker 1: it's helpful for me to not compare myself to other people,
Speaker 1: because you know, some people's process is, girl, I wake
Speaker 1: up at two am every day, I write for three hours,
Speaker 1: I drink sixteen ounces of water, and then I go
Speaker 1: and I pay cut my children or I take my
Speaker 1: children to sign. Yeah. So people have these really regimented
Speaker 1: schedules of how they write, and also like not to
Speaker 1: not consider the context around that, because oftentimes they were
Speaker 1: writing and that's all they were doing, and they were
Speaker 1: already set up at the points they were talking about writing.
Speaker 1: So those things make me feel inadequate. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, back to the inspiration, there were moments where
Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was, but one of the
Speaker 1: writers said, I don't plan, I don't outline, and I
Speaker 1: typically don't care to outline too heavily. I know that's
Speaker 1: the thing that different writers talk about, is different in
Speaker 1: their process. But I have been trying outlining lately, and
Speaker 1: I've been doing some heavy outlining lately, a lot of
Speaker 1: it for other people. But I'm experiencing that in a
Speaker 1: very full and total way and realizing. I was always like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I should try this, Oh maybe I should be
Speaker 1: the type of person to do this, I could be
Speaker 1: more organized, and I realized, like, it's just probably not
Speaker 1: for me. You know, I can do it for other people,
Speaker 1: but why I want to do it for myself? Probably not.
Speaker 1: And so when I see people in the book saying
Speaker 1: I don't do that, then it makes me feel better
Speaker 1: about my own work and more inspired to move forward
Speaker 1: in whatever way that I choose to.
Speaker 2: So has the book changed your process in any way
Speaker 2: or you're like, oh, I want to take this from
Speaker 2: it and try this out or moving forward. This is
Speaker 2: the type of writer that I'm going to be Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I want to be better about studying the
Speaker 1: writers that I love and finding more writers that I
Speaker 1: love and that I want to emulate, because that's been
Speaker 1: something that's always been hard for me. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: because I love reading, but for some reason, I can
Speaker 1: never say, like, if somebody asked me, who's your favorite writer,
Speaker 1: I can't answer it, or like, who is you know
Speaker 1: someone who you want to write like, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's the hardest question in the world for me.
Speaker 1: All those questions are always hard kinds of questions for me.
Speaker 1: I tell myself, like, I really want to find that,
Speaker 1: not like I feel like it's necessary to be a
Speaker 1: great writer, but I think it's a beautiful thing to
Speaker 1: have someone that you can turn to when you're writing,
Speaker 1: that can feel like they are your kind of like
Speaker 1: support system in a way, to be like, yeah, this
Speaker 1: person did it this way, this is how they moved,
Speaker 1: this is what they wrote about, this is what they
Speaker 1: cared about. And someone in the book set, you know,
Speaker 1: study other people, and I would extend that to, you know,
Speaker 1: study people who specifically and find people and study people
Speaker 1: who I would like to emulate. Take what I want
Speaker 1: from it and then leave the rest.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's good advice.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're looking back at our reading and writing goals.
Speaker 2: What are your upcoming reading and writing goals?
Speaker 1: So right now, I really want to move into more
Speaker 1: spiritual reading. Sometimes I do spiritual reading like philosophical reading
Speaker 1: and some self help sometimes and sometimes it's spiritual mixed
Speaker 1: with science. I have a lot of spiritual books that
Speaker 1: I would like to get to and I think that
Speaker 1: I really that would be really edifying for me in
Speaker 1: my life right now. So that is a reading goal
Speaker 1: for me right now. So, like I said, I would
Speaker 1: really like to delve more into the fiction and I
Speaker 1: need to hold myself to it. The next novel that
Speaker 1: I'm reading is The Woods All Black by Lee Mandelo,
Speaker 1: and it's like a historical horror and set in Appalachia
Speaker 1: and about trans romance. So I'm looking forward to reading
Speaker 1: and I think it came out earlier this year.
Speaker 2: Okay, by your writing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I am getting back into my novel is
Speaker 1: really what the goal is right now, and doing that
Speaker 1: really heavily, I think now I'll be able to create
Speaker 1: a little bit more balance in that so that I
Speaker 1: have this space to work on it, like I really
Speaker 1: want to. So for writing, that is like my utmost goal.
Speaker 1: I have those short stories still in like I have
Speaker 1: a lot. I have different ones that I'm working on,
Speaker 1: So I think when I'm uninspired to write the novel,
Speaker 1: I'll keep working on those short stories. But I don't
Speaker 1: want to start a new one because that's how I
Speaker 1: get caught up. I will start a new short story
Speaker 1: before working on my book. So that's what I have
Speaker 1: for writing goals. So what about you for your reading
Speaker 1: and writing goals?
Speaker 2: Reading, I think I want to read some autobiographies, be
Speaker 2: like desk Tracked on the road my angela, Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like five or six. Yeah, she's like, y'all go no,
Speaker 2: me right. So I think that's what I want to
Speaker 2: focus on for the rest of the year, autobiographies of
Speaker 2: not just writers but even activists. And for writing, I
Speaker 2: feel like my true answer is just to like write people,
Speaker 2: and I think that is what that I'll actually do.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should keep saying I want
Speaker 2: to write these short stories when I know I'm not
Speaker 2: going to. Yeah, but yeah, like writing letters and cards
Speaker 2: to people is my writing goal. And now it's time
Speaker 2: for Roll Credits, the segment where we give credit to
Speaker 2: a person, place, or thing we've encountered during the week eves.
Speaker 2: Who or what would you like to give credit to.
Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to ice water because
Speaker 1: I usually don't drink ice water. I'm a hot water,
Speaker 1: room temperature water kind of person. When I can get
Speaker 1: hot water, then I choose hot water. But you know,
Speaker 1: ice water just come in handy. Sometimes sometimes it just hits.
Speaker 1: It's crispy, and it goes right to your soul. So
Speaker 1: I want to give credit to ice water today.
Speaker 2: You can feel it going day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like.
Speaker 2: To give credit to people who keep their Christmas lights
Speaker 2: on well past January. You know who says they are
Speaker 2: Christmas lights?
Speaker 1: First of all the evangelical.
Speaker 2: They're just lights on the house, So what if they're
Speaker 2: in the shape of a Christmas tree. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: just like, y'all do not care, and I can appreciate that.
Speaker 2: You also clearly don't have HOA and you're smart for
Speaker 2: being a neighborhood that don't have h away. So credit
Speaker 2: to y'all.
Speaker 1: So you don't buy into the superstition that it's bad
Speaker 1: luck to keep your Christmas lights up. Because isn't that
Speaker 1: a thing. I never heard of that. What is it?
Speaker 1: I think it's just bad luck to keep your Christmas
Speaker 1: lights up past and once the New yeark starts.
Speaker 2: And what was it?
Speaker 1: New year starts?
Speaker 2: That's not quick.
Speaker 1: I might be wrong. I get it down quick. I
Speaker 1: might be wrong. It could be totally wrong, because I
Speaker 1: guess New Year's is a thing too, so maybe past
Speaker 1: New Year's Day. I don't know. They're all just lights. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who says they're Christmas? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I ain't heard that one. But I don't know. I
Speaker 2: can see people saying that it's like the old interview
Speaker 2: or something. But you know, anyway, see y'all next week.
Speaker 1: Bye. On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather
Speaker 1: Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and
Speaker 1: Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
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