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Speaker 1: The Coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Welcome to the Coin Bureau Podcast. This is

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Speaker 1: Guy and his good friend Mike. Hello, Hello Mike, and

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Speaker 1: today we are talking about all things crypto, all things crypto.

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Speaker 1: But where are we today? Where are we recording from?

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked, Mike. So today we've we've taken

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Speaker 1: our recording studio and we're recording from Elon Musk's personal

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Speaker 1: bathroom at SpaceX headquarters. And I'll just sort of describe

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Speaker 1: our surroundings a little bit for the listener, maybe for

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Speaker 1: those of you who haven't been inside Elon Musk's personal

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Speaker 1: bathroom before. It's it's very spacious. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you can hear that that echo. Um, there's a slightly

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Speaker 1: odd smell, but I mean that may be something to

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Speaker 1: do with the ash tray near the toilet, um and

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Speaker 1: on the back of the door, or there's a big

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Speaker 1: picture of Jeff Bezos um and there's kind of darts

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Speaker 1: sticking out of it or around and I what I

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Speaker 1: think he's been doing, or whoever's been using this bathroom

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Speaker 1: has been sat on the on the toilet and has

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Speaker 1: been throwing the darts from there, and it's quite a distance.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good sort of what would you

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Speaker 1: say about ten ms? Yeah? So I mean he's ironically

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Speaker 1: there's Amazon packages everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, he's clearly a man

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Speaker 1: of double standard. Yeah. Good acoustic stuff for for a bathroom,

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Speaker 1: really good. I mean again, i'd expect that, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I hope it doesn't come it. I hope

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Speaker 1: he doesn't because we haven't got permission. I thought you

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Speaker 1: were going to ask him. You thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to ask him. Wires were crossed. Um, and yes, So elon,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, thanks and sorry. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: shall I before we go on? Shall I talk about

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Speaker 1: the coin Bureau slightly? Or should I address the lie

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Speaker 1: that I spoke earlier in the introduction? Um? I think

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Speaker 1: maybe address the life first of all. Address the life

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Speaker 1: first of all. Okay, I said in this podcast that

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk all things crypto. That is true generally,

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Speaker 1: but for this episode, actually we're barely going to talk

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Speaker 1: about crypto at all. In fact, we might not even

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Speaker 1: mention it. Um. I know that may sound weird for

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Speaker 1: a podcast that's supposedly all about crypto, but today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be talking about money and how it works. And

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Speaker 1: I think this is really important. When I was first

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Speaker 1: researching crypto, when I first got into bitcoin and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: noticed quite early on was that I had to I

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Speaker 1: had to go back and think about money in general

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Speaker 1: and how I understood it and how I again sort

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Speaker 1: of challenge my conceptions of it. And once I got

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Speaker 1: that all square, I found that bitcoin and crypto exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I thought we could do today. We

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Speaker 1: just have a little dive into the history of money,

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Speaker 1: and nothing comprehensive, nothing too deep, but just a look

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Speaker 1: at money, how it's evolved, how we use it, how

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Speaker 1: we how we used to use it, and how we

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Speaker 1: use it now, um, and some instances of what used

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Speaker 1: to pass for money and that sort of stuff. I

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Speaker 1: think it could be really interesting. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: great place to start. Guy, Thank you, Mike, thank you UM.

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Speaker 1: And I should say, obviously, the Coin Bureau, for those

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Speaker 1: who don't know, is everyone's one stop shop for crypto education.

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Speaker 1: We have our YouTube channel million plus subscribers. Have I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that recently, no Ah, Well, now you know. So

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Speaker 1: we have our YouTube channel. We also have web how

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Speaker 1: many subscribers one million plus plus plus what plus one?

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Speaker 1: One million and one? No, we're last time I looked

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Speaker 1: weird at about one point one point four million. Jeez, yeah, Louise, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty I'm pretty pleased, So like, can subscribe? Yes please.

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Speaker 1: We've also got a website which is full of educational

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Speaker 1: material and not so many videos of me for people

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Speaker 1: who like to read exactly exactly those types I think

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Speaker 1: they still exist. We also have our various social media

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Speaker 1: channels Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. I know you're personally addicted to

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Speaker 1: all three of those. Don't need to There's no need

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Speaker 1: to blow smoke up my ass about that one. I

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Speaker 1: also have a weekly newsletter that I send out and now,

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Speaker 1: of course, this podcast is part of the coin bureau Stable.

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Speaker 1: Yet another thoroughbread in that coin bureau Stable. On that note,

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Speaker 1: let's start this whole thing. Then, let's start with a

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Speaker 1: bit of a thought experiment, um and imagine a world

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Speaker 1: without money. And I wonder if I wonder if we

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Speaker 1: could get sort of a sort of slightly transitional sound,

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Speaker 1: So a world without money. I'm quite enjoying this. Let's

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Speaker 1: imagine ourselves then to be living in a small economy.

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Speaker 1: So a village, say in the dim and distant past. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I guess sort of around the time that maybe

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Speaker 1: some episodes of Game of Thrones are set. Yeah, medieval

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Speaker 1: or perhaps modern day Afghanistan. Yes, you know, a society

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Speaker 1: UM that is kind of relatively unsophisticated, doesn't have an

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Speaker 1: awful lot of technology. So yeah, we're imagining ourselves in

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Speaker 1: this village in either wester Ross or Afghanistan somewhere, and

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Speaker 1: there's a sort of kind of assistance farming, hand to

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Speaker 1: mouth kind of existence vibe going on. UM. And I

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Speaker 1: guess what that means is that everything that we use,

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Speaker 1: everything that the people living in this small economy uses,

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Speaker 1: they they either have to kind of make themselves or

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Speaker 1: grow themselves. That there's no sort of you can't order in.

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Speaker 1: There's no Amazon or door dash or door dash or

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Speaker 1: yeah or any sort of there's I don't think they've

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Speaker 1: even got delivery. Well, yeah, this is how primitive we're talking,

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Speaker 1: really really primitive. I mean, it's horrifically primitive. You might say. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: so let's say we're imagining ourselves in this UM. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's say for the sake of argument that your job

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Speaker 1: is chickens. You're a chicken farmer, say you've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of chickens. Um, And I'm slightly lower down the

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Speaker 1: social scale. I farm. I'm a sort of I grow vegetables,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps I have a lot of turnips. So, um,

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Speaker 1: let's imagine the sort of situation you're kind of you're

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Speaker 1: a bit chickened out. I'm a bit turniped out. So

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Speaker 1: we decide that we want a bit of variety in

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Speaker 1: our respective diets. Anyhow, Yes, so we're both slightly tired

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Speaker 1: of our current diets. So I decide that I want

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Speaker 1: a bit of your chicken, and you decide that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a bit of turnip would would lighten things up a bit,

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Speaker 1: mix things up a little bit. So everything's fine, right,

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Speaker 1: we can just do a straight swap. Now, obviously we'd

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Speaker 1: have to calculate just how many turnips a chicken is worth.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I don't think we could do one for one, yeah,

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Speaker 1: unless it was a really big turnip or a very

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Speaker 1: or a very small poor chicken one wing, half a beak, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just obviously not being cared for very Yeah. So um,

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Speaker 1: this is a this is a situation that we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves in the economists call a coincidence of wants. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and this is fine when it occurs because you have

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Speaker 1: something I want, I have something you want, and we

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Speaker 1: can make an exchange. But we don't need to look

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Speaker 1: very far beyond this to realize that that's going to

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Speaker 1: break down pretty quickly, and that coincidence of once is

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Speaker 1: not going to occur all that often, because the next

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Speaker 1: time that you fancy a bit of variety, or I

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Speaker 1: fancy a change from turnips or anything like that, um,

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Speaker 1: we could have a problem because you don't want you

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Speaker 1: might not want any more turnips. Um. So you come

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Speaker 1: along and I'd be like, hey, Mike, that chicken was great,

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Mrs Guy did some great work with it.

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Speaker 1: How about another and you could you'd be something along

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Speaker 1: the lines of, well, yeah, I wasn't wild about those turnips.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this coincidence of once doesn't happen very often.

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Speaker 1: So the limitations of a system like this become pretty obvious. Um.

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Speaker 1: And if we're just sort of exchanging amongst one another,

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Speaker 1: so it becomes very very difficult. So I would have

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Speaker 1: if I was determined to get my hands on your chicken,

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Speaker 1: then but you're not willing to accept turnips. Then I

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Speaker 1: have a problem. I have to I have to go

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Speaker 1: to another villager who had maybe specializes in something else

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Speaker 1: that I want. You need to know what I want

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Speaker 1: and then find it and hope that the person who's

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Speaker 1: supplying what I want also wants what you're giving. Exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: And if only there was something that could facilitate the

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Speaker 1: easier transfer of goods, yes, exactly exactly so um. And

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Speaker 1: now this is obviously this sort of economy that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, This, this small economy is is what's known

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Speaker 1: as a barter economy. We're just we're just bargaining with

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Speaker 1: each other. So I would go off and i'd hopefully

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Speaker 1: find someone who was selling I don't know, swords, um,

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Speaker 1: and I could persuade them to to give me a

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Speaker 1: sword for a certain amount of turn You would need

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Speaker 1: to buy the chicken. Yeah, then I could just take

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Speaker 1: the could just kill you and take your chicken, and

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Speaker 1: before you know, the whole place has descended into anarchy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you can see how a barter economy doesn't doesn't

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Speaker 1: on the face on the face of it, were quite clunky,

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Speaker 1: quite clunky. Yeah, And what one of the One of

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Speaker 1: the by products of it is that there isn't much

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Speaker 1: sort of specialization. There isn't much innovation because if someone

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Speaker 1: makes or grows something that not many people want, something,

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Speaker 1: something that's quite specialized, then they're going to be unable

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Speaker 1: in all probability to swap it for more useful things.

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Speaker 1: So if you only make swords, for instance, once everyone

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Speaker 1: in the village as a sword, you're you're going to

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Speaker 1: run out of options. So as you say, we need

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Speaker 1: some sort of way in which we can exchange goods

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Speaker 1: without having to barter, So there's a sort of stifling

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Speaker 1: of innovation. People don't really specialize. The economy remains very

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Speaker 1: very basic in this sense, so as you say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: perhaps we need we need some sort of way of

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Speaker 1: exchanging things without actually having to barter amongst ourselves. Now,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people believe that this is where money

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Speaker 1: comes from, that initially humans engaged in barter human societies

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Speaker 1: were barter economies, and everyone sort of slowly came to

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Speaker 1: this realization, and that is where we get modern money. Now,

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Speaker 1: before we go on, I should I should point out

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Speaker 1: that there is there's no real evidence of this as

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Speaker 1: far as as far as I could tell research before

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Speaker 1: penns and paper were invented. Well, yes, there's there was

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Speaker 1: no one writing these sort of things down obviously, and

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Speaker 1: I guess a barter economy wouldn't leave any evidence anyway,

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Speaker 1: no podcast about it or anything, not even that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is how I can't. I can't. I

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Speaker 1: can't over egg I can't overstate how basic this economy is.

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Speaker 1: I mean they didn't even have regular TV. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: Let's quickly talk about some useful terms. There are just

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Speaker 1: a couple of useful terms that I want to flag up.

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Speaker 1: They're going to going to appear a few times when

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Speaker 1: we talk about money. The first is something called sailability,

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Speaker 1: and the easiest way to describe this assailability is the

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Speaker 1: ease with which something can be sold, the amount of

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Speaker 1: demand for something. Yeah, how easy it is to to

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Speaker 1: exchange something to sell something. Um. Now, there are three

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Speaker 1: different types of sailability, the sailability across time. So this

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Speaker 1: is how well something holds its value over time. Now, um,

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Speaker 1: if you think of a turnips, a turnip is not

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Speaker 1: going to be a great store of any kind of world.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to have much salability over time because

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Speaker 1: it will get rotten. Yes, there's going to go off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's the famous sort of turnip window. Yes, all economists

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Speaker 1: turnips quickly that turnip windows closing. And where's a chicken?

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Speaker 1: You just kill it when you want it, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you if you want it dead. It could just be

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Speaker 1: a pet chicken. It could just be a pet chicken.

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Speaker 1: I mean, chickens have several several benefits, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about this when we look at commodity money. But chickens obviously, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they do keep their value across time, although

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Speaker 1: they do have an annoying habit of dying. Like all

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Speaker 1: living things, a turnip broughts, a chicken will eventually die.

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Speaker 1: But chickens do have other advantages, which are eggs and

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Speaker 1: feathers exactly exactly which will touch on in a minute.

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Speaker 1: So the other forms of scalability, one is sailability, I

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Speaker 1: should say, the other forms of salability our sailability a

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Speaker 1: us scales, So that is how easily something can be

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Speaker 1: converted into larger or smaller units. Turnip chop up. I

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Speaker 1: could give you half a turnip a quarter of a turnip.

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Speaker 1: Chickens slightly more difficult. I mean you'd have to you'd

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Speaker 1: have to be happy that the person taking half a

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Speaker 1: chicken wanted half a dead chicken. You can't subdivide a

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Speaker 1: live chicken, which obviously detracts from its value. And then

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Speaker 1: we have sailability across space. Um, and this is how

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Speaker 1: easily something can be transported. A chicken can be a chicken.

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Speaker 1: Chickens and turnips are fairly sailable across space. Although you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to try and transport too many chickens. More

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Speaker 1: chickens you try and transport, the harder it is. And

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Speaker 1: kind of ditto with turnips. You know, if you need

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Speaker 1: to move a thousand turnips from point A to point B,

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Speaker 1: you're going to struggle. You're gonna have to get yourself

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Speaker 1: some sort of card. Let's talk quickly about metalists versus

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Speaker 1: child list Moving swiftly on from we will get back

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Speaker 1: to chickens. Good, I should I should remind listeners that

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Speaker 1: not this podcast episode isn't going to be focused solely

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Speaker 1: on chickens, but chickens will be mentioned quite a few times. Now.

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Speaker 1: Metalists versus chart lists is what I want to talk about.

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Speaker 1: And I see you, I see you short of shaking

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Speaker 1: your head there and pursing your lips and I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure what these are metal list I thought were people

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Speaker 1: with long haired head bang chart lists. No idea maybe yeh,

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Speaker 1: people who went to charterhouse. Yeah. Um. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea of metalism and chartism until I until I sort

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Speaker 1: of went back and and research money when I was

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Speaker 1: looking into bitcoin, um, and I initially sort of saw

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Speaker 1: these two terms and thought, this is this is very

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Speaker 1: specialized stuff. I don't need to worry about this. But

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Speaker 1: when I dug down into it a little more, it

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Speaker 1: was quite interesting because there are basically two schools of

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Speaker 1: thought regarding the nature of money, and what the one

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Speaker 1: that we've just been talking about or touching on concerning

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Speaker 1: chickens and other things, is this idea of metalism. And

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Speaker 1: this is the view that certain commodities, certain precious metals perhaps,

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Speaker 1: but other commodities as well, were chosen or evolved to

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Speaker 1: take the place of barter. And that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: you said as well, you know, you said when we

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Speaker 1: were when when when we were talking about this barter

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Speaker 1: economy and watching it kind of fall apart in front

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Speaker 1: of our eyes, when when we realized that you didn't

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Speaker 1: like turnips, and you said, we need some form of

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Speaker 1: we need something coin. This is a metalist point of view.

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Speaker 1: Metalism is the idea that certain commodities evolved or were

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Speaker 1: chosen to take the place of barter um. And it's

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Speaker 1: the idea as well that a currency needs to have

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Speaker 1: an actual thing backing at, something tangible behind it, and

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Speaker 1: gold is the best example here. So the opposing view

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Speaker 1: to metalism is what is known as chartil is m

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Speaker 1: Now this is slightly more complex. This argues that money

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Speaker 1: is in fat act kind of an embodiment of an

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Speaker 1: agreement between people and the society they live in. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I can see you. It's it's tricky that. So the

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Speaker 1: guy who first came up with the term was a

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Speaker 1: German economist. He was called George Friedrich Knapp, and he

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Speaker 1: said money is a creature of law rather than it

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Speaker 1: being any sort of commodity, and very simply chart lists,

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Speaker 1: I guess the way to explain the universal agreement. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And what what chatilism argues is that money kind of

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Speaker 1: grew up as a way of settling kind of obligations

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Speaker 1: or debts between people. So there wasn't a conscious decision

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Speaker 1: that we need, oh, we need something to take the

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Speaker 1: place of barter, but what came first, essentially was the

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Speaker 1: chicken which came Yeah, and this is the yeah chiltalism

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Speaker 1: is built around the argument of the chick in the

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Speaker 1: turning that famous argument. Yeah. Um, I guess the most

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Speaker 1: simple way that I found to to describe the difference

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Speaker 1: between metalists and chart lists. Metalists believe money is a

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Speaker 1: tangible thing, while chart lists tend to see it more

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Speaker 1: as a concept. So these two theories, yeah, okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these are two conflicting theories of how money came about.

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Speaker 1: And there there are two schools, and I think, like anything,

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Speaker 1: the truth is probably somewhere between. Yeah, somewhere in between.

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Speaker 1: And again I think a lot of chart lists will

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Speaker 1: point out that again there's no evidence that any sort

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Speaker 1: of barter society existed. Um, and we obviously know that

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Speaker 1: barter takes place, but not at not at a sort

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Speaker 1: of societal level. It might, you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: might swap something. Um, I do remember when we were

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Speaker 1: at boarding school. Yes, um, there was a kind of

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Speaker 1: barter economy there. Oh, not for bogs, not for for

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Speaker 1: booze bags and Portan Max exactly, yeah, booze cigarettes and porno. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So this idea so the chart list idea is kind

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Speaker 1: of money as a concept, and they say that perhaps

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Speaker 1: that the idea that actually before money there was dead

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Speaker 1: and the way that money grew up was as a

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Speaker 1: way of settling these obligations or debts. So let's say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, that I needed a chicken and you were

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Speaker 1: prepared to You were prepared to give me one. Therefore

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Speaker 1: I was in your debt and at some point I

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Speaker 1: would have to pay back that debt. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: it would be come to me on the day of

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Speaker 1: my chicken's wedding. Someday I will come to you and

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Speaker 1: I will ask something for me. God. Remember again, I've

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Speaker 1: got one voice. You've got one sort of comedy voice,

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Speaker 1: and it's sort of jags between various characters. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: so I owe you a chicken. But let's say that,

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Speaker 1: let's say that we don't necessarily live in the same village.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm a sort of traveling merchant or something like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: so we would we would have to remember these debts

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Speaker 1: and obligations would have to be remembered, um and settled

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Speaker 1: at some point in the future. And it may be

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Speaker 1: that I would come back and perhaps we would both

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Speaker 1: remember that I owed you a chicken. I go, oh, Mike,

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Speaker 1: here's that chicken I owe you from? Yeah, but what

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Speaker 1: if there was a lot of time involved what it

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Speaker 1: might be years before I next saw you. I come back,

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Speaker 1: you go our guy, just just the man, just the man.

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Speaker 1: Where's that chicken? And because we're we don't write anything

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Speaker 1: down because a lot of time has involved what chicken?

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Speaker 1: I don't know your chicken? And you can see, well,

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Speaker 1: fill my sword exactly exactly and that and that's where

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Speaker 1: sort of violence comes in and everything falls apart. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I guess in these instances that maybe I owing you

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Speaker 1: or or being indebted to you in some way, either

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Speaker 1: because you gave me a chicken or I stole a chicken,

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Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Both instances can be simplified if

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Speaker 1: there is some sort of monetary system in place. And

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of chartless viewpoint. This says that

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Speaker 1: that money evolved to to fulfill this, to fulfill this role,

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Speaker 1: to fulfill these kind of debts and obligations. And it's

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Speaker 1: not necess it's not just it's not just people exchanging

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Speaker 1: things or borrowing things whatever like that. It could be

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Speaker 1: things like a dowry or something like that. If I

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Speaker 1: wanted to marry your daughter. This idea of of some

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Speaker 1: sort of money existing would make this whole thing easier.

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Speaker 1: And this is the chartless point of this is the

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Speaker 1: chartless view that it evolved to to fill this sort

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Speaker 1: of role um and crucially some sort of without this

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Speaker 1: without this idea of settling these debts either sort of

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Speaker 1: instantly or further down the line um. And bearing in

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Speaker 1: mind that most people would have been a literate so

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Speaker 1: there wouldn't have been there wouldn't have been any sort

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Speaker 1: of many sort of written records. Um, we need a

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Speaker 1: lot of trust in place. And we'll see later, I

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Speaker 1: think probably in the next episode when we look at

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Speaker 1: the sort of modern financial system more, the role of

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Speaker 1: trust will become really important and we'll talk a lot

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Speaker 1: more about trust. But I think at this stage you

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Speaker 1: can already see that you sort of trusting that I

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Speaker 1: will settle this debt at some point in the future

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly, So let's move on. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about before we talk about anything else, before we go

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Speaker 1: too much deeper into the history of money or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, I want to I want to think of

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Speaker 1: money from the point of view of it being a technology.

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Speaker 1: Money as tech um and I think this is a

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Speaker 1: really useful way of looking at it. The money is

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Speaker 1: a technology like anything else, and as people get more

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Speaker 1: adept at working at it, it becomes more useful and

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Speaker 1: more advanced. So in the in the context of money,

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Speaker 1: let's say better metal working skills. So as humans got

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Speaker 1: better working with metal, it became possible to create coins.

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Speaker 1: And as we got even better at working with metal,

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Speaker 1: those coins were able to be created to sort of

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Speaker 1: uniform sizes or uniform weights, so they all look the same.

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Speaker 1: They were fungible, which means they could you know, they

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Speaker 1: could be readily interchange. One coin of a certain size

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Speaker 1: and weight was worth the same as another coin that

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Speaker 1: looked the same. And this is really important, this idea

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Speaker 1: of standardization. And this meant that when we talk about

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Speaker 1: coins and things like that, you know, this was if everything,

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Speaker 1: if we knew, if we had confidence that a coin

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Speaker 1: was worth a certain amount, we could tell by looking

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Speaker 1: at it, then that saved us having to weigh out

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Speaker 1: things deal in any other sorts of money. And so

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Speaker 1: do you see that as as we become better at

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Speaker 1: working with this technology that is money, we find it

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Speaker 1: can do more for us. And this is something will

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Speaker 1: I think we'll just keep circling back to this over

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Speaker 1: the money is a technology. Money is a technology, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like many other things. And I think thinking in these

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Speaker 1: terms is a good way to approach the history of

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Speaker 1: more modern forms. I mean, it's just there's a way.

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Speaker 1: It's like writing something down is a technology. Money is

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Speaker 1: a technology. Wheel is a technology. It's it's an advancement

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Speaker 1: of knowledge, exactly, exactly, And again I didn't it's maybe

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Speaker 1: not the sort of thing that you would automatically. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean when you think about it, it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't like because nowadays you just think technology

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Speaker 1: as a phone or you know, a computer or something

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Speaker 1: a bit more advanced like that. But yeah, I suppose

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Speaker 1: it's an early form of tech. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the wheel or chicken the chicken turnip transportation system.

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Speaker 1: When the chicken the chicken. Yeah, when when people finally

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Speaker 1: got that nailed, the world world advanced massively. I mean

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Speaker 1: that was the I can imagine your Amazon packages being

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Speaker 1: delivered by chicken. Yeah, those bloody chickens late again. Um,

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Speaker 1: so let's think about the role of money. Then. If

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Speaker 1: we go back to our village in wester Ross, Stroke Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious, as we said, that some form of

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Speaker 1: money is needed in order to people, for people to

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Speaker 1: buy goods from each other. Otherwise it gets way too

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Speaker 1: complicated and without these things are tricky and an actual

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Speaker 1: trade would be difficult. Um. So when it comes to

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Speaker 1: defining what money is, now this is the kind of

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Speaker 1: official line. There are kind of three roles that that

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Speaker 1: money is is expected to play. Okay, are you ready

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Speaker 1: for this? This is this is huge. So the first

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Speaker 1: role is a medium of exchange. Now what do I

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Speaker 1: mean by this? So a medium of exchange a way

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Speaker 1: of buying and selling goods or settling debts. So I

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Speaker 1: want to buy your chicken. I don't have anything you

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Speaker 1: want in return, but I can use another means of payment.

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Speaker 1: But crucially, you have to then be able to use

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Speaker 1: this means of payment that I give you in this

427
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: same way with someone else. Yeah, right, makes sense. Yeah,

428
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: So a medium of exchange. Um. And the really important

429
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: part of it is that this form of payment has

430
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: to be accepted by everyone else in the economy that

431
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: we're operating. So that stops me from declaring that my

432
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: turnips are a medium of exchange. And this is what

433
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: we're all going to be using because everyone would turn

434
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: around and say, no, guy, that's not actually allergic to turnips. Yeah, okay,

435
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: I'm getting my sword. Yeah, allergic to them too. I've

436
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: got a really I have a really bad Wherever my

437
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: sword comes into contact with me, it just gets quite red.

438
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: It's really bad for my skin. Yeah. Um. So the

439
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: second function of money, the second role of money is

440
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: as a store of value. And we talked. We touched

441
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: upon this with salability over time. So a store of

442
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: value holds its value over time and for the very

443
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: least that has to be in the in the kind

444
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: of short to medium term, I think. So again, a

445
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: turnip or a chicken is kind of useless in this respect.

446
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: A chicken is probably better than the turn it because

447
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: a turn it will rot pretty quickly, but a chicken will, hopefully,

448
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: especially if you care for it as well as I'm

449
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: sure you do care for your chickens, it may last

450
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: slightly longer, but obviously in the long term years plus,

451
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: this deteriorates. So if I use it too, if I

452
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: use this, this this form of money, if I use

453
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: it to buy a chicken from you, you need to

454
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: be confident that you'll be able to buy something of

455
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: equivalent value, perhaps another chicken with it. In the future,

456
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: you'll be able to put it under your mattress and

457
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: remember it's there. I can't put a chicken under your mattress.

458
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: I've tried to, trust me. It did not work out well,

459
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: not for the chicken. I can't think it was a spot.

460
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: I can't think it was a great night's sleep for

461
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: you either. Yeah. So this is why this idea of

462
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: a store of value is why money nowadays tends to

463
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: consist of nonperishable goods, an inanimate object. Yeah. Yeah, it

464
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: used to be something that doesn't degrade or rot or

465
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: or go off or anything like that, because that would

466
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 1: obviously be pretty useless. Then we have the third function

467
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: of money, and this is as a unit of account.

468
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: Now this means that it can be used to record

469
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: the value of what your own or compare the price

470
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: of different items. Do you see what I mean? So? Um, yeah,

471
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: I kind of get because the value of things will change.

472
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: So if they with supply and demand. If you've got, um,

473
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: you know, an abundance of turnips the people and everyone

474
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: has loads of turnips, then people won't They've got options

475
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: of where they can get them in the price will

476
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: come down. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, and it's

477
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: something a unit of account. It functions well when you

478
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: can measure out your entire sort of net worth, if

479
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: you like, if we use a modern money, you could

480
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: probably quite accurately calculate what you're worth in British pounds.

481
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: You know, you have whole seven seven that's that, that's

482
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: the moment, that's the entire value of all your assets,

483
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: everything you earned. Had a bad week week in the casino,

484
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: before that, it was a lot higher, I promised, Um. Yeah.

485
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: So and and obviously most you know, all kinds of

486
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: national currencies these days function quite well as a unit

487
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: of accounting that people can people can tot up how

488
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: much they and so long as that currency remains relatively stable.

489
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: If it's being massively devalued, then less so Venezuela. Yeah

490
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: now some people, Um well, so yeah, I think the

491
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: last point just to make our on on the unit

492
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: of account thing, it needs to make sort make some

493
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: sort of standardization possible. Um. So if we're using this

494
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: currency again everyone ideally everyone's using it, and we can

495
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: calculate sort of roughly where we are, what people are

496
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: in and stuff, And obviously we can do that fairly easily,

497
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: you and you and you and I in Great British pounds.

498
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: A lot more difficult to calculate what we're worth in turnips. Well,

499
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're worth turnips. So I mean things

500
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: are looking up already. On that note, should we take

501
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: a break. We're back, welcome back. Shall we talk about

502
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: some early forms of money? Then we're not going to

503
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: talk anymore about chickens or turnips or turnips. I don't

504
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: think they may come up. Okay, let's talk about some

505
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: more early forms of money. Yes, okay. So however, money

506
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: came about whether you whether you subscribe to the metalist

507
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: or the chart list point of view, or whether like you, Mike,

508
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: you're sort of on the fence, and a little bit

509
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: of both, a little bit of both. Little buy when

510
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: it comes to the chartless mentalist, mentalist, are you chartless?

511
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, whatever you call you both which over

512
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: one it is? This money has been in use in

513
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: some form of another for thousands of years, and we

514
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: reckon that perhaps the first form of money was what

515
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: is now known as commodity money. So this would be

516
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: physical things that have value in themselves. So a good

517
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: example here would be a chicken. I thought we weren't

518
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: coming butter fine, Okay. I think a better example would

519
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: be something like livestock or grain and livestock. I suppose

520
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: cattle in this because there is lots of evidence that

521
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: cattle has been used as a form of exchange dowries,

522
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: dowries camels for a lady exactly. Yes, I remember being

523
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: on holiday in Egypt many years ago, about twenty years

524
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: ago or something, and some guy came up to me

525
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: and he offered me a hundred camels for my sister. Now,

526
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: what did you do with those hundred camels? Well, I

527
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 1: still have the summer um and I think probably he

528
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: was kind of playing up to what, you know, this

529
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: kind of stereotype that Western has had of people of

530
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: Egyptian people or other or other people. But it was

531
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: interesting in that I think this, this idea of exchanging livestock,

532
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: exchanging the lights of camels or cattle, has been going

533
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: on for thousands of years, and I think recently there

534
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: were instances of cattle being stolen in Kenya in order

535
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: to pay a dowry, as you mentioned earlier. So these

536
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: have these have definitely been used as money of some sort. Um.

537
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: And as we said, a chicken or a cat or

538
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: a cow or something would be a form of commodity

539
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: money because it has value itself. A cow can give you.

540
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: A cow can give you milk, um, it can give

541
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: you meat. It can also give you more cows. I

542
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 1: think this is worth point as well. You know, it's

543
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: kind of like an interest bearing asset in a way. Um.

544
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: And at the end of it, at the end of it,

545
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: you can also slaughter it and need it um and

546
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: make its skin into a nice coat sandals, sandals, that's

547
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: what that's like, a nice pair of leather sandals. Okay. Well, um,

548
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: So when we were talking earlier about the idea of

549
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: sailability over time and sailability over space and all this

550
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of thing, something like a cow would be quite

551
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: useful in that respect because cows lived for a few years.

552
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: They were also quite easy to transport in a way,

553
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: and that they kind of get themselves from a to

554
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: b under their own steam. I mean you kind of

555
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: have to direct them a bit. But that that money

556
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: is transportable, it's a little more difficult to divide a

557
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: cow up. Um, So you can't you know, unless as

558
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: I say, as as we touched on with the chicken,

559
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: unless you want to actually kill it. Yeah, cattle can

560
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: be a decent medium of exchange because you know you can.

561
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: You could say, well, this cow is worth twenty chickens perhaps,

562
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: or thirty chickens, or a certain number of pigs, or

563
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: a certain weight of grain or something like that. Um.

564
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: A reasonable long term store of value, but not too

565
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: long um. And obviously we talked about this idea of

566
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: it produces a lot of other things. It has value

567
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: in itself. So commodity money itself has been around for

568
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: a long long time. And incidentally, we get a couple

569
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: of modern terms, modern monetary terms, from commodity money. So

570
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 1: the first, the Latin word for cattle is pecus, and

571
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: that's from that we get our modern word pecuniary, which

572
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: means of or relating to money. I'm not gonna lie,

573
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that word before in my life.

574
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: But you could say you're in you're having pecuniary difficulties.

575
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: You could I'm having understanding what pecunity means. Pecuniary. Yeah,

576
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: it's not a it's perhaps not a word you'd use

577
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: every day, but it's certain certainly a it's certainly a word.

578
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: It's certainly a word. Yeah yeah. Now another popular commodity

579
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: that was used as money it was salt, and salt

580
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: has certain advantages. It's fairly easy to transport, it lasts

581
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: a long time unless you sort of unless you soak

582
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: it in water. So as long as you can keep

583
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: it dry, it can hold its value over time. I

584
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: don't think salt goes off. I think so. And it

585
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: can also be quite usefully divided into smaller amounts, so

586
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: you can weigh out a certain number a certain weight

587
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: of salt m. So you know, you wouldn't have to

588
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: hand over an entire bag of salt. You could wait

589
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: out to smaller amounts. So exactly, exactly. Um. Now, obviously

590
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: salt is kind of valuable in and of itself because

591
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: you can flavor food with it, and also I think

592
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: crucially in in more preserve exactly. Yeah. So it's not

593
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: only a valuable commodity, but it also form fills the

594
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: role of commodity money quite well. And we get another

595
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: popular word for this. So the Latin word for salt

596
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: is salas, and from that we get our word salary,

597
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: which is I think a word that you probably a

598
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: little more from me you with I have heard of that? Yeah? Um?

599
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, Roman legionaries were quite often paid part

600
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: of their wages in salt. That's interesting. Yeah, not that

601
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: everything else hasn't been. I mean that's the first bit

602
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: I've gone. Okay, I'm gonna repeat that down the pub.

603
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: That's the first bit that's been Really, do you know

604
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: what salary means? Do you know what you get to?

605
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: It was quite a peculiarly term. Have you said that right? Yes?

606
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: Well it's quite a what term? But sorry, what was that, Mike?

607
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: But prefer prefer have that five salts? You salis salt,

608
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: Give me some salt. So let's think about some other

609
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: early forms of money. Another one was cowary shells. Cowries

610
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: are a species of c snail, and cowery shells are

611
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: known to have been used as money in China I

612
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: think as far back as around twelve BC, and apparently

613
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: when I was researching this also apparently in parts of

614
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: East Africa up until about the lee cells shells exactly. Um,

615
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: and the Linnaean or the zoological term for carries is

616
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: monteria montaria manetta, which is where money comes from. Well,

617
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: I think the term money the term monetta again is

618
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: Latin monetary. Yeah, but Juno, the Roman goddess Juno was

619
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: known as Juno Monetta, and she was sort of associated

620
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: with money, and that's where we get words like monetary

621
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: and also the word mint. Okay, so not from this thing,

622
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: not from this no bit, But listeners, don't listen to

623
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: my mine, which listen he's speculating. I'm just here to

624
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: bounce off. He's the smart one. I'm the idiot in

625
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: a situation to make you feel better, quite thanks for

626
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: something that up for the listeners like. Um, so yes,

627
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: the Linnaean or zoological term for carries is monterio, monetta, money, money,

628
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: moneamed it twice. So what are Another popular form of

629
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: money in Africa many many centuries ago was agri bead.

630
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: Agary beads were popular in Africa. They were decorated beads

631
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: made mainly from glass um and they could be sort

632
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: of strung together to make jewelry. And I think they

633
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: were thought to have sort of magical and or medicinal properties,

634
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: so they were highly prized in Africa. Um. But the

635
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: problem was that because glassmaking technology in Africa was very limited,

636
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: they obviously had value there because they were rare, but

637
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: when traders from Europe came along and encountered these agory beads,

638
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: they realized that they could make them a lot cheaper

639
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: back home because obviously glassmaking this idea again of money

640
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: as an evolving technology, glassmaking was a lot more advanced

641
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: in Europe. So when they came back, they suddenly had

642
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: all these lots of agary beads. But they were quite

643
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: clever about it. I think they didn't flood the market exactly. Yeah,

644
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: they sort of introduced them in dribs and drabs, So

645
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: they didn't they They knew that if they suddenly turned

646
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: up with sacks of these things, then they would arouse suspicion,

647
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: but also they would have the effect of devaluing the

648
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: currency completely, so they introduced it very gradually. Um and

649
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: the and the tragic consequences of this obviously that they

650
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: were able to acquire resources lands et cetera from tragic

651
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: for who, well, tragic people who got taken fleeced, Yes,

652
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: trend yeah, fleast And if you're the one with the

653
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: gold be it's it's pretty pretty great. Yeah, yeah, it

654
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: had pretty it had pretty dire consequence. I think probably

655
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: this sort of helped at some point to kind of

656
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: fuel the slave trade because okay, it gave these Europeans

657
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: a lot of leverage, it made them seem very rich,

658
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: whereas in actual fact they were just manufacturing these very

659
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: easily back home. So that's a that's a good example

660
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: of money as a tech evolving and those on the

661
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: right side of it, those sort of those who were

662
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: the more advanced tech were able to take advantage of

663
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: those with less advanced tech. Now there's one more primitive

664
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: form of money. I mean, there are tons of different

665
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: tons of different commodities used as money all over the world.

666
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: But the last one that I want to talk about

667
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: the last form of primitive money, which bitcoin us and

668
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: love um and this is very relevant to to crypto

669
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: and will kind of maybe talk about this today but

670
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: maybe under another episode as well. But the last form

671
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: of primitive money is rye stones. Now, these were a

672
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: currency used on the Pacific island of Yap and these

673
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: were enormous, well not all of them enormous, but these

674
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: were pieces of limestone that cut in a circle, cutting

675
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: a big disc with a hole in the middle. And

676
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: these pieces of limestone could only be quarried. They weren't.

677
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: They weren't available on the island itself. They could only

678
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 1: be quarried from nearby islands. I think one was called

679
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: I think that nearby islands of Palau and Guam, which

680
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: were about three or four hundred miles away by canoe.

681
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: So these they thought short and supply then, yeah, exactly exactly.

682
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: So these these rice stones were quarried and manufactured, if

683
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: you like, on these neighboring islands, brought over by canoe,

684
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: and then value was attached to them, and they served

685
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: as a form of currency because people would exchange them.

686
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: But because they were so big, I mean, they ranged

687
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: in size. Some were some were sort of relatively small, yeah,

688
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: something like that. Um, I see that, I see that. Look,

689
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: some were relatively small and others were huge, others were

690
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: Others were up to about sort of almost three meters across. Yeah.

691
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: So these rice stones were then exchanged, they were used

692
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: as a form of currency, but they weren't interchanged. They

693
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: just stayed where they were. And the biggest ones, especially

694
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: were in sort of communal areas. It's sort of in

695
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: the center of villages or in I think they were

696
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: dancing grounds, you know, where the islands are kind of

697
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: gather to have massive parties nightclub exactly, the local nightclub.

698
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: And these rice stones were there and what and the

699
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: way they worked is that they were exchanged, they they

700
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: they they their owners changed over time as things were

701
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: bought with them, you know, maybe a house or used

702
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: again as a dowry, and the Islanders remembered who owned

703
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: which stones. And this was this was an amazing form

704
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: of hard money because it was very difficult to come by.

705
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: You You couldn't you couldn't easily produce more of them

706
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: unless you were willing to make a hundreds of mile

707
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: round trip with a potentially enormous piece of stone. So

708
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: getting them from making them in the first place, quarrying

709
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: them in the first place, and getting them over to

710
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: Yap was an extremely difficult undertaking. Why bitcoin is love

711
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: it because it's it's such a lot to mind one

712
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin exactly exactly. It's it's a it's a form of

713
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: it there while you dance around your computer exactly, I

714
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: mean that's what I do. That's what you if you

715
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: found that you'd mind a bit get Spotify one, get

716
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: the bitcoins out, have a little boogie. Who could blame you?

717
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: So yes, So these rice stones. These were kind of

718
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: a form of hard money. They were a commodity. They

719
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: were very difficult to flood the market with, and there

720
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: are there are stories, I think one they were transporting

721
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: one particularly big one across and it fell out of

722
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: the canoe in the shallows um and sank to the

723
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: sank to the bottom. But they still were able to

724
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: use it as a form of money because they went,

725
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: that's mine there, and then they just remembered that even

726
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: though it was sitting there, no one could move it,

727
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: no one could nick it because it was just that big. Yeah,

728
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: how did they get it in there? Well, it needed

729
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people too, It needed a lot of

730
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: people to to move these things around, which again was

731
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: why it's so why it's so so great as a

732
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: form of money. Is that is that ry stone still there?

733
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, And I think you'd have to

734
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: take that up. I think you'd have to take that

735
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: up with the with the yapp, with the app islanders themselves. Yes,

736
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: so rice stones were a great form of currency. They

737
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: were too heavy to move, They sat where they were,

738
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: usually somewhere prominent, and the islanders remembered who it was

739
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: who owned them, and they could then be exchanged for

740
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: goods used in dowries, and the ownership simply transferred. So

741
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: it's not a case of me having to physically give

742
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: you the stone. We just and I think the village

743
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: elders would sort of gather and everyone kind of make

744
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: a mental note. They go, right, that's now Mad Mike

745
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: stone guy has given Mad Mike this stone every time

746
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: he did had one of these transactions. It was quite

747
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: a big deal. Mm hmm. Not necessarily. I think they

748
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: could be used, that the smaller rice stones could be

749
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: used for smaller transactions. But again, they just break off

750
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: bits of r I think they had to. I would

751
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: imagine that they had to be intact, you know, you

752
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: couldn't just I need some change of bashion. But yeah,

753
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: and then there's the story of an Irish American captain.

754
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: And well, I should say also they worked great as

755
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: a store of value because they're stones, so they don't

756
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: rot or degrade, and they're still there. You can go

757
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: to you can go to Yap today and these rice

758
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: stones are sitting around and I think there that the

759
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 1: ownership of them is still known, and I think when

760
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: I was searching this again, they are still occasionally used

761
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: I mean the the Yap Island has now used the dollar,

762
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: the U. S Dollar like like so many other people.

763
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: But rice stones are still used as a form of

764
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: currency and only rised on to the dollar that I'm

765
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: not sure quite quite a few, I imagine. I don't

766
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: know what the exchange rate is like, but I don't

767
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: know if that's a currency pair and often traded currency. Well,

768
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: next time you're in Yap. I didn't think I'd like

769
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: to yap the beds dons. So all these what we

770
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: could call primitive forms of money were useful for a time,

771
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: but they're value tended to be undermined by advances in

772
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: technology and the growth of more complex economy. So we

773
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: saw with the agriy beads, dastardly Europeans figured out that

774
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: they had better glass making so they could just manufacture

775
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: the beads, and actually with the rice stones of Yap.

776
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: There was a story about an Irish American captain called

777
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: David O'Keeffe who was washed ashore on Yap. I think

778
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: he was shipwrecked and the Yap Island has sort of

779
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: picked him, scraped him off off off the beach and

780
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: saved his life, and he spent some time on the

781
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: island and realized how they were shown how they were

782
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: using these stones. So as a way of showing his

783
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: gratitude to he decided that he was going to try

784
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: and use dynamite. He thought, he thought, I tell you,

785
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: I know how I get I know what I can do.

786
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: I can go to Palau or Guam and I can

787
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: use dynamite to easily make some more, to easily get

788
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: some limestone, make some more. And I think his idea

789
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: was that he wanted to import. He wants to export

790
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: coconuts from Yap two Um. I don't know where it

791
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: was exactly, but he wanted to export coconuts in order

792
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: to make coconut oil. So he went and got some

793
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: dynamite and he made some ryce stones, and then he

794
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: went back over to Yap and he presented these these

795
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: new stones, was like, right, give me a coconuts. And

796
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: I think the the the chiefs, the island chiefs sort

797
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: of realized what he'd done and went right, No one

798
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: except these stones. And but a few of the islanders

799
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: were convinced, you know, sort of kind of human greed

800
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: took over um, and we're convinced to accept them and

801
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: to work you know, making harvesting coconuts for this guy.

802
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: And at that point, I think the kind of that

803
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: the rice stones as as an as an economy kind

804
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: of fell apart a little bit and that was sort

805
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: of the beginning beginning of the end for them as

806
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: as a viable form of currency. And obviously at this

807
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: point the world was opening up a lot more and

808
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: and visiting, you know, the wider. The wider economy was affected,

809
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: so it's arguable how long they would have actually lasted for.

810
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: But it's a great example of sort of a new

811
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: technology turning up. And obviously it's some some dastardly Westerner.

812
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: I think this was in you know, this was sometime

813
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century. Um, but yeah, some dastardly western

814
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: are turning up with dynamite and technology. Just right, I'm

815
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: going to use this dynamite to make myself some money. Um.

816
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: And yes, so where's these old forms these older forms

817
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: of money? Whereas before they were rare and hard to obtain,

818
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: like the stones or like the beads if you didn't

819
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: have the glass making technology. This the the technological advantages

820
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: made them easier to get hold of and thus less valuable.

821
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: So um, when we talk about the we're going to

822
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: talk I think in general about the continued sort of

823
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: evolution of money here. And this is a very general

824
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: overview you know that we're involved in here. We're not

825
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: going to go too exhaustive, but kind of the next step, um,

826
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: is going to be metal money. Now you yeah, you

827
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier. So um, this idea commodity money is

828
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: pretty old. The idea of the idea of paying for

829
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: things with other things that have value. But the practice

830
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: of using precious metals like gold and silver, as well

831
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: as kind of less precious ones like copper and bronze,

832
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: has been around for I think over about over four

833
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: thousand years. There's evidence going back going back to times

834
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: of the Egyptians and possibly even before. So metal money

835
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: has been around for a long time. And I think

836
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: one of the earliest is there's evidence that lumps of

837
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: silver were used approved by the state in Cappadocia, which

838
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: is sort of modern day Turkey, um from around sort

839
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: of so these these soil they weren't necessarily made into

840
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: coins or anything like that, but yeah, lumps of silver

841
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: that could then be used by weight, um. And so

842
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: there's evidence of that and actually banks even pre date,

843
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: predate even coinage, because the first ones appeared around three

844
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: thousand BC in Mesopotamia, which is obviously modern day Iraq

845
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: and Syria and and quwait Um. And these would have

846
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: been used to store commodities like cattle, grain, silver, gold, whatever.

847
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: So banks have been around almost as long as as

848
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: money itself. And then from around kind of seven hundred BC,

849
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: we see coins begin to emerge and they're made of

850
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: silver or gold, sometimes both metal substance called electrom which

851
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: is a mixture of silver and gold um. And they

852
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: were originally graded by weight. And you remember when we

853
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: were talking about money as a technology earlier, basic metallurgy

854
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: would have been would meant that they were able to

855
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: able to get lumps of metal to sort of weigh

856
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 1: roughly the same. So you had had had a few

857
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: sort of lumps of gold or silver or whatever, and

858
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: then you would have weighed them out and countered them

859
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: out like that. Silver became quite popular around this time.

860
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: It became more popular because it was more plentiful. It's

861
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: still kind of rare metal, it doesn't it's it's not

862
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: just kind of lying around, but it's a bit more

863
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: plentiful than gold, and it was therefore less valuable, and

864
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: this was useful because you could use it for sort

865
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: of smaller transactions, because again, handing over a quantity of gold,

866
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: you can only I guess, divide a lump of gold

867
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: so much until you're sort of dealing with dealing with

868
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: impractical amounts towns and pens, dollars and cents exactly exactly, um.

869
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: And the first round coins they believe emerged in China

870
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: around six BC, but they were made of kind of

871
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: non precious metal, so maybe copper, and their value was

872
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: actually the metal itself, so you know that copper obviously

873
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: has has many uses, so they'd hand over these sort

874
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: of coins, and then they're valuable because copper itself is valuable.

875
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: So it's kind of an overlap of commodity money and

876
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: metal money, Copper for very small transactions, silver for slightly

877
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: larger transactions. And obviously we can see this as a

878
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: parallel with our with our own currency to coins today.

879
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: And then gold obviously became better for higher value transactions,

880
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: and also gold keeps better than any other metal. Copper

881
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: obviously tarnishes, green oxidizes exactly, silver tarnishes as well. I mean,

882
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: it's still pretty durable, but not as durable as gold.

883
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: I mean gold. I love gold. Gold lasts I mean

884
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: pretty much forever. And this was great because it meant

885
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: that gold fulfilled this idea of a store of value

886
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: better than anything, because people now had the ability to

887
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: store their wealth over generations. They knew that it wouldn't rot,

888
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: it wouldn't degrade, so long as they held onto it.

889
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: They knew that that it would it would still be

890
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: worth money. Further down the road, then, around e d

891
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: I about a thousand years later, the emperor Hien Sung

892
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: began issuing paper money, and this was apparently in response

893
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 1: to a shortage of copper, which, as we as we mentioned,

894
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 1: was sort of being used to make most Chinese coins,

895
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: so he kind of right, okay, well think paper instead.

896
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: And this, you could argue, is perhaps the early birth

897
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: of fiat money. Money issued without anything physical backing it,

898
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: and valuable because the powers that be deem it to

899
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: be so. So in this case, the emperor going right,

900
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: here's some paper money is valuable because I say it's valuable.

901
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: It's not tied to any sort of metal or anything

902
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: like that. Just trust me, yeah, exactly, Just do what

903
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: you're told, or I or someone close to me, We'll

904
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: get their sword out, yes, Um. And the printing of

905
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: this paper money seems to have gotten out of control,

906
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: causing inflation. And obviously the more money that you print,

907
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: the less valuable it becomes. Mr. So, how could you so?

908
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 1: And the Chinese again stopped using paper money around about

909
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: the fourteen hundreds, and it seems to have re emerged

910
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: in Britain around the sixteen hundreds. Banks began storing coins

911
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: in their vault and they issued notes in lieu of them.

912
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: It was a bit like a receipt and exactly so,

913
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: if you took your money to a bank in Um

914
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century in Britain and you put in

915
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: a whole load of gold, they go, thank you very much, Mike.

916
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: We will give you. We'll give you your receipt for

917
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 1: let's say, let's say you deposited ten pounds of gold.

918
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: Here is a receipt for ten pounds of gold that

919
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: in itself isn't much used to you. But you can

920
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: then trade that with someone else for another receipt, for

921
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 1: another receipt, for another piece of paper. Five break break

922
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: the three done to exactly. But yeah, this is so

923
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: we're already getting towards this idea of this paper money

924
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: being issued, but it's being backed by something in a

925
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: bank somewhere, and these receipts are these receipts became a

926
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: kind of currency in themselves, So that was that was

927
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: where we think bank notes sort of evolved from this

928
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: idea of banks issuing receipts um. Then the Bank of

929
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: England issued kind of smaller denomination bank notes in response

930
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 1: there was a shortage of gold bullion. I'm not quite

931
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: sure why, but yeah, they issue so they realized that

932
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: there's no point everyone trading with notes need to get

933
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: some smaller ones. So again we see this idea of

934
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: money as a technology. The emergence of paper money is

935
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: kind of another technological leap forward. It enables larger sums

936
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: to be traded and money to be more easily transported

937
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: because it's much easier to to take a load of

938
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: paper and go across the channel on a booze cruise. Say,

939
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: then it would be to take a massive sack of

940
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 1: gold coins. Not good, Yeah, no, no space in your

941
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: swim shorts exactly exactly. You would have Yeah, you wouldn't

942
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: have been able to can't swim with gold in your pockets. Yeah,

943
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: and I I mean I presume there were kind of

944
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: weight restrictions on the ships, like it would have been

945
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: on can you empty your pockets? What does all this?

946
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: The metal detective exactly? Those seventeenth century metal detectives were

947
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: picked it up and gone crazy. So again, but with

948
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: like as with any new technology, as it develops, it

949
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: becomes more useful but also more dangerous. And of course

950
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: paper money must have been a whole lot easier to forge. Yeah,

951
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: and I'm sure plenty of people sort of looked at

952
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: those bank receipts and went, I can make one of these, um.

953
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: And obviously if you do this, then more money sort

954
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: of gets flooded into the system, even though it's not

955
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: not technically worth anything, and this devalues the currency as

956
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: a whole. And I guess it's worth pointing out here

957
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: that historically the penalties for forgery have been very, very harsh,

958
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: and I think in sort of medieval medieval times, um

959
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: forges sort of met pretty sticky ends, like you know,

960
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: burned at the stake or whatever like that, and up

961
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: until not a fine, no, there was no sort of

962
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: slap on the wrist. Some paper I can give you.

963
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: How about it? Just how about we make this go away?

964
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: Do you like turnips? That? I haven't got that many chickens?

965
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Um, And yet more laws. This is an

966
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: interesting fact. More laws against forgery were passed in Britain

967
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: in the early eighteenth century than against any other type

968
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: of crime. So they were kind of constantly as money

969
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: was evolving really quickly, they were the issues. Yeah, exactly,

970
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: And as with any technology, the criminals were always kind

971
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: of one step ahead, you guess, So they were constantly

972
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: having to issue laws. And yeah, that there was the

973
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 1: death penalty for forgery was still was still in place

974
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: for a long long time, not until that not No, yeah,

975
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: those damn forges. Yeah, it means a sticky end. So

976
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: at this point I think we should talk about the

977
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: role of the state UM in issuing and regulating the

978
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: money supply. I can see you, I can see your

979
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: face there, the state guys. So by the time going

980
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: back to going back to coinage, going back to the

981
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: issuing of coinage, by the time it's widespread, most humans

982
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: are living in pretty clearly defined states or kingdoms, and

983
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: they're ruled by some governing body or another UM. And

984
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: ever since we've been using money. Governments, kings, emperors, whatever

985
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: they be, have understood that controlling the money supply is

986
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: a big part of wielding power. Money is power. So

987
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 1: if you yeah, if you control the supply of money,

988
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: then you then you control your citizens. Um. So this

989
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: is why coins traditionally have the sovereign's head on them, serving,

990
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, as a marketing exactly. It's kind yeah, it's marketing.

991
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: It's marking your territory. It's going, hey, I'm in charge.

992
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: Do you know why? Because that's my face, my face

993
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: and the money. Man. When your faces and the money,

994
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: you could do whatever you want, and it probably gave them.

995
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: Now give me my turnip, no more turnips than that,

996
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: and your chicken and your sister. It would have been Yeah,

997
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: it would have been a good sort of claim, wouldn't it.

998
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: You think it would be much easier to get money

999
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: out of people if you go, yeah, give me your money,

1000
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: because that's mine, it's got my face technically, yeah, technically

1001
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: handed over. Yeah. I mean I can't imagine in our

1002
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: queen doing that. I mean, she famously doesn't carry cash,

1003
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: she does need to, she is she is take a selfie?

1004
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: Do you take that? There? You go. Do you think

1005
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: she just goes into a shop and sort of stands

1006
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: in profile, you know, I mean, you've got it on

1007
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: a piece of paper. The real things here, that's believe,

1008
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: that's mine. That's definitely worth fifty quid. And so the

1009
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: stronger the bond between the state and money, the greater

1010
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: power the state is able to wield. And I guess

1011
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: that one of the best examples of this is the

1012
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: Roman Empire. And one of the reasons that Rome was

1013
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: so strong for so long was because it had a

1014
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: it had a stable monetary system um and so it's

1015
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: citizens Romans were able to kind of go out across

1016
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: the empire and spend an amass wealth and and project

1017
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,919
Speaker 1: Rome's power in that way. And the relationship between money

1018
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: and the state has only kind of grown over time.

1019
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: The state guarantees money by putting its its weight and

1020
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: power behind it. And again this is the eye. This

1021
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: kind of feeds into the idea of fiat money, modern

1022
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: day money. It's valuable because the state with all its power,

1023
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: with all its fighter jets and policemen, with clubs and

1024
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: aircraft carriers and nuclear weapons and all this sort of stuff.

1025
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: It's that idea that that is that what's backing up

1026
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: the currency. That is why it's powerful. However, when the

1027
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: state goes rogue and devalues the currency, then it's power

1028
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: begins to wane. And again this was seen with Rome

1029
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: because Julius Caesar introduced a coin called the Aureus, which

1030
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: had eight grams of gold in it, so it was standardized.

1031
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: And obviously by this point metallurgy has got metal, metal

1032
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: working technology has become advanced, so it's easy to produce

1033
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: standardized coins. They're all the same size weight look, and

1034
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: this particular areas had eight grams and eight grams of

1035
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: gold in it, and this maintained and helped create nearly

1036
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: a century of financial stability. Around this time, people could

1037
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 1: trust the money they knew, they knew what it was worth,

1038
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: they knew that they could that they by having by

1039
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: owning one of these coins, they had eight grams of

1040
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: gold or however much it was, and this put in

1041
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: a sense of real financial stability. However, then after Caesar

1042
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: died a while later, nit Emperor Nero came along, and

1043
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: you don't need sort of great historical knowledge to know

1044
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: that he was one of the bad guys. He's a

1045
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: guy who fiddled while Rome burned. Have you heard that?

1046
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: I have? Yeah, so Nero was also did he made

1047
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: some great dub step? Yeah he did. Yeah, yeah that

1048
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: that that will probably fly over there, not in steps scene,

1049
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: but yeah. But one of Nero's great mistakes was to

1050
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: pioneer what's known as coin clipping, so this in this case,

1051
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: and he collected coins. He amassed the coins that were

1052
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: that were in use, melted them down, and then minted

1053
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: new ones. But these contained lower amounts of gold and silver,

1054
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: so he was able to make more money, but it

1055
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: was de valued. And how did people know the just

1056
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: with the devalued stuff and the valued stuff, Well, there

1057
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: are quite a few. I mean, in some ways people

1058
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: would have noticed. I think for a start, they would

1059
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: have noticed that this coin that they had was lighter.

1060
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: And there are also stories. I think some of them

1061
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: had sort of metal cause like the iron or copper

1062
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: cause so it was gold sort of around them. But

1063
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: as they got used, they kind of wore out, and

1064
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: then people realized that it was just sort of non

1065
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: precious metal in the middle um, and they were of

1066
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: a generally lower quality. So people, um, people came to

1067
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: realize that these coins for less. Yeah, it's the sort

1068
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: of money. But when people realize when this confidence in

1069
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: the currency goes, this again ushered in financial instability, devalued

1070
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: the currency. It was worth less. And although this created

1071
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: more money for the government in the short term, the

1072
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: long term effect was was economic decline. And this was

1073
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: it was not the whole, the sole reason that the

1074
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: Roman Empire fell, but it was one of the It

1075
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: was one of these catalysts, this coin clipping, this devaluing

1076
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: of the money supply, was a major contributing factor to

1077
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: the eventual fall of the Roman Empire, and interestingly, the

1078
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: Emperor Constantine he managed to then restore some stability by

1079
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: promising not to debase the soliders any further. So he went, right, Okay,

1080
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: it's four and a half grounds of gold and it's

1081
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: going to stay like that. Yeah. But he by this

1082
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: point that the empire was under was under sort of

1083
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: pressure from all directions. He moved east to Constantinople, which

1084
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: is now istanical word, which is now a very long word.

1085
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: But he managed to maintain the integrity of the Solidists,

1086
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: and this gradually over time became known as the besant

1087
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: or the pisant Um, and this eastern branch of the

1088
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: Roman Empire, which was centered around Constantinople. It survived a

1089
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: long time after the Western Empire had collapsed. After Rome

1090
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: itself was overrun by the Bybarians. The Eastern Roman Empire

1091
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: survived for many centuries after that, and one of the

1092
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: reasons it was able to do so was because it

1093
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: maintained this financial stability. It maintained the integrity of the

1094
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: money and people could still trust it. The Eastern Roman

1095
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: Empire collapse itself when it began devaluant, devaluing its currency

1096
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: many centuries later, but coin clipping other forms of devaluation

1097
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: have happened many times since um, and it's usually the

1098
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: precursor to something bad. UM. I also want to briefly

1099
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: touch on the idea of Gresham's law, and this is

1100
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: the idea that bad money drives out good And to

1101
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: your point earlier, when you when you asked did people

1102
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: did people notice that these dodgy coins were in circulation?

1103
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, they did. And what would happen were

1104
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,919
Speaker 1: that the good coins that were still in circulation, these

1105
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: these ones that still had eight grams of gold in them,

1106
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: they would be hoarded, so that especially the rich would

1107
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: hoard them, and people would spend the bad ones because

1108
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: they want to get rid of them. You know, if

1109
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: you've got a dodgy, if you've got a dodge be like,

1110
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: there you go, I'll pay my fine. Yeah, there you go,

1111
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: not my problem anymore. So people would hoard the good

1112
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: money and spend the bad and this, this kind of

1113
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: hoarding takes money out of the economy, and again it's

1114
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: stifles innovation, stifles trade. I think from all this we

1115
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: can take away the fact that the state can wield

1116
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: power through the currency, but only if the people continue

1117
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: to have confidence in it. So once that currency gets debased,

1118
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: once that trust is gone, then you start having problems.

1119
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: And this is what you see in places like Venezuela nowadays.

1120
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: People have lost all faith Yeah in the it's the

1121
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: Bolivar and Venezuela. They've lost all faith in the Bolivar.

1122
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: And obviously through all this hyper inflation and things like that,

1123
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: and that is why, and that has in turn lead

1124
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: to yet more strife. Should we take another break, Let's

1125
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: let's sell some stuff. Yeah, let's sell some stuff. And

1126
01:04:53,080 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: now now a message from our sponsors, welcome back. Did

1127
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: you enjoy those messages? Yes? I found them. I found

1128
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: them very enlightening. Let's talk about sound money. So the

1129
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: collapse of the Roman Empires, we've seen it brought about

1130
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: centuries of feudalism and very little in the way of progress.

1131
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: And it was only the advent of the Renaissance that

1132
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: started to see sound money flourish again. This idea of

1133
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: money that is that is that has value, that is

1134
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: backed by the state, that people can have confidence in,

1135
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: and the pioneers of it were Italian city states like

1136
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: Venice and Florence. They had they began producing coins that

1137
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: stuck to very rigid standards, and Venice, I think produced

1138
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 1: the Ducket, which you will remember from the Merchant of Venice,

1139
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: I know, is your favorite Shakespeare play. Yeah, And Florence

1140
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 1: produced the Florin from Fluence in the Machine exactly Florence

1141
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: of Florence and the Machine. Yeah. So these standards were

1142
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: slowly replicated across Europe as as more countries began to

1143
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: see as more states began to see the value of them,

1144
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: and trade began to flourish as a result, because people

1145
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: suddenly had confidence in this money again. They knew that

1146
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: it could hold value, they knew that they could use

1147
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: it to exchange. Obviously it was easy to transport. UM.

1148
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: So this period also saw the rise of banking. Obviously

1149
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: banking was nothing new, but this was it began. The

1150
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: technology really began to evolve, and the Medici family in

1151
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: Florence were the sort of pioneers of this. UM. And

1152
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: again we'll talk about banking in the next episode probably

1153
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: and the role that banks play in the economy. But again,

1154
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: this is a technological advance. Money. Yeah, money, money getting

1155
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: more useful. So banking brought more organization to the money system,

1156
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: and it also facilitated things like loans and credit, which

1157
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: in turn promoted growth, trade, exploration, et cetera. And this

1158
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:03,919
Speaker 1: is why the renaissance. Obviously, UM, things like Columbus's expeditions

1159
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: were financed will be able to be financed by these

1160
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: by these Florentine banks, by the likes of the Medici's

1161
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: as well. I think UM Spain as well was which

1162
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: was quite rich at the time, also financed a lot

1163
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,439
Speaker 1: of these expeditions. But only good came with them as well.

1164
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, not only good things happen UM.

1165
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: And we also get the rise of central banks later. Now,

1166
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: the first central bank was the Swedish Central Bank, which

1167
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: was in six So we're jumping forward a little bit,

1168
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: but it was actually formed the Swedish REGs Bank called

1169
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: ricks Bank, I'm not sure how you pronounce it was

1170
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: formed in the reaction as a reaction to the collapse

1171
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: of Sweden's first bank. So do you remember this idea

1172
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: of banks issuing bank notes, issuing receipts based on the

1173
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: reserves of gold and silver that they hold. Well, this bank, this,

1174
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 1: this bank in Sweden, it went too far. It had

1175
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: these it had this golden silver in its faults, and

1176
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: it was issuing these receipts. But it went too far

1177
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: and issued more receipts than it had than it had

1178
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: reserves for. And this is what's known now as fractional

1179
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: reserve banking. Again, this is a term that we're going

1180
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: to come back to, especially when we talk about fear money.

1181
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: This idea that banks not holding or not holding enough

1182
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,679
Speaker 1: in their vaults to cover all the receipts or notes

1183
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: that they've issued. Now, this isn't a problem so long

1184
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: as you don't have a bank run, so long as

1185
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: everyone doesn't try and come back to the bank and

1186
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: try and redeem those notes. Because this is the thing

1187
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: that bank notes, these receipts could be exchanged. And we'll

1188
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: get to we'll look at this in a moment with

1189
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 1: the with the with the gold standard. But these notes,

1190
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: you could take them to a bank and exchange them

1191
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: for precious metals, exchange them for the amount of gold

1192
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: or silver or i ever much they promised. And this

1193
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: was this was fine. But if you started doing fractional reserve,

1194
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: if you issued more than you had reserves for again,

1195
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: that would work as long as everyone or as long

1196
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: as too many people didn't come and try and redeem them.

1197
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: And this is what happened with Stockholm's bank. There was

1198
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: a bank run. Too many people decided for whatever reason,

1199
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: that they wanted to redeem their notes for the metal

1200
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,520
Speaker 1: from the reserves, and the bank collapsed. And in response,

1201
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: the Swedish Central Bank was set up to sort of

1202
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: regulate these things better. Then in six the Bank of

1203
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: England was established. So this was only the second central bank.

1204
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: And the story behind that is that William the third

1205
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: he wanted to finance the building of a new navy

1206
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: because the French being being French, because the French had

1207
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: sunk the previous one. Um there'd been a sacard blu

1208
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: mon dieu. Yeah, those dastardly French had turned up sunk

1209
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: our sun called our brave British ships. William the Third

1210
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: was understandably pretty put out about this um. He wanted

1211
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: to build a new one. The only way that he

1212
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: could see to do this was to get a loan.

1213
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: So a lot of very rich people gathered together to

1214
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: lend him to create the Bank of England, and the

1215
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: Bank of England then lent William one point two million pounds.

1216
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, the Bank of England was created in order

1217
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: to in order to bring this money together and then

1218
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: loan it to the King, and then the bank was

1219
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: obviously loaned to the King was faced with the money.

1220
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but at this point the power of kings

1221
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: is sort of waning slightly. So although he although his

1222
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: face may well have been on the I'm not sure

1223
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 1: he would, they would have been on these bank notes.

1224
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: They would have been. It would have been on the coins,

1225
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: maybe not on the bank notes. But the Bank of

1226
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 1: England was permitted to issue bank notes against the debt

1227
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 1: that the King owed them, and this was this debt

1228
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: was legitimized because William agreed to accept those bank notes

1229
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: as as payment for taxes. So the so they kind

1230
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: of these these two these two forces came together. Yeah,

1231
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: the Bank of England lent the King the money, and

1232
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: the king in turn sort of guaranteed this money by

1233
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: saying we'll accept this debt exactly exactly, and thus putting

1234
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: the weight of the state and obviously the weight of

1235
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: this new navy that he built behind these bank notes.

1236
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,639
Speaker 1: That is interesting. So look when you were talking about

1237
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: right this the aircraft carries missiles guns, it literally was that.

1238
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: And that's sort of your your that is back in

1239
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: your in your currency. Yeah, and some people it all

1240
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,959
Speaker 1: comes back to the sword. It all, it's all circles

1241
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 1: back to the sword exactly. Some people talk about the

1242
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: idea of the state having the monopoly on violence. Um,

1243
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 1: and I guess meaning that you know, when it when

1244
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: push comes to shove, the state can point a sword

1245
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: at you and go this, you're going to accept this money,

1246
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: You're gonna like it because I've got lots more. We've

1247
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: got lots more of these swords. We've got some drones. Yeah,

1248
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: you've got droads and the swords and a navy. So

1249
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: this created an advanced new system of banking it relied

1250
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: on fractional reserves, so more notes were issued than there

1251
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: were reserves in the vault. But this still managed to

1252
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: fuel the growth of Britain as a naval power and

1253
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: it also helped finance the Industrial Revolution. So again money

1254
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 1: has taken a technological leap forward and people have unlocked

1255
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 1: this idea of sparked innovation and allowed allowed of progress exactly. Yeah,

1256
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: more money. And what they've kind of I guess the

1257
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: way to think about it is that they managed they

1258
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 1: found an ingenious way to create more money that people

1259
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: will accept. And again this is the Bank of England

1260
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: and the and the state sort of interacting and one

1261
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: guaranteeing the other and therefore making this new form of

1262
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 1: sound money, even though it wasn't fully backed by by gold,

1263
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: was backed by a state accepting it. And yeah, it's

1264
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: intertwining it with the tax system. Is is ingenious? Yeah, Yeah,

1265
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: and it gave And because it had the backing of

1266
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: the state, people had confidence in it. People trusted it

1267
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: and were therefore happy to use it, happy to accept it,

1268
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,440
Speaker 1: happy to trade with it, happy to take it overseas.

1269
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:59,719
Speaker 1: All this sort of stuff. It was it had value

1270
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,719
Speaker 1: um and this kind of moves us on quite nicely

1271
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: to this idea of the gold standard, which is the

1272
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: next sort of big technological leap forward. And this was

1273
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: again us in Britain, we pioneered this um and it

1274
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: was actually that moved to the gold stand was directed

1275
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: by Isaac Newton, who some people have described as one

1276
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: of the probably one of the cleverest people who ever lived,

1277
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 1: and he was Warden of the Royal Mint at the

1278
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: time and he was instrumental in getting Brittain onto a

1279
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: gold standard. So at this point we should talk about

1280
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: what a gold standard actually means. Basically, a gold standard

1281
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: means that a nation's currency is valued according to a

1282
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: fixed amount of gold. So when Britain adopted it in

1283
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: seventeen seventeen, the price was set to just over four

1284
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: pounds per finance, so roughly one quarter ounce of gold

1285
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: to one good old British pound. So in practice this

1286
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: means that a nation on the gold standard should have

1287
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: all of its currency in circulation backed by actual gold

1288
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 1: in its faults. Is that the case today though, no,

1289
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: not at all, And this is something this is something

1290
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 1: that will cover. And this is when people say, oh,

1291
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: bitcoins not backed by anything, it's well neither is fear money,

1292
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: and I think the latest figure I saw was the

1293
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: amount of pounds backed by gold is I think around

1294
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: fo not much not much so in theory, as we've

1295
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: touched on before. In theory, anyone wielding one of these

1296
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: bank notes could toddle along to the Central Bank, to

1297
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:35,160
Speaker 1: the Bank of England and redeem it for gold, for

1298
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: an actual amount of physical gold. And this was kind

1299
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: of the gold standard in action. Now I just want

1300
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,720
Speaker 1: to be really pedantic. There are technically several types of

1301
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 1: gold standard that so the gold standards, the gold standard

1302
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: for gold, what is the gold the absolute gold standard

1303
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 1: of gold standards. So what we've been talking about is

1304
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 1: the gold bullion standard, this idea that you can that

1305
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 1: you can go and actually and get physical gold for

1306
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 1: in return your banknotes. There are two others. There's the

1307
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: gold species standard, meaning gold coins conform to standardized shapes, sizes, weights,

1308
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: and levels of purity. And we've touched on this before,

1309
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: haven't we, This idea of standardization. Well, that's the gold

1310
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: species standard. So then we have the third type of

1311
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: gold standards. Who knew there were so many? And this

1312
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: is the non convertible gold bullion standard. The NCGB s

1313
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: and this simply means, I love. This simply means that

1314
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: the currency is worth a certain amount of gold, but

1315
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: you can't actually go and convert it into actual gold.

1316
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:37,759
Speaker 1: So you turn up at the Yeah, yeah it's worth Yeah, absolutely,

1317
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: it's worth It's worth a pound of gold, all right,

1318
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: Can I have it be ridiculous again? Britain thrived on

1319
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 1: the gold standard. It remained in place until fourteen. It

1320
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,959
Speaker 1: was briefly suspended, well not briefly suspended. It was suspended

1321
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: during the Napoleonic Wars, which went on from one very good,

1322
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: very good. Um, I read it off, you read it

1323
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 1: off my notes. It was a bound So yeah it was.

1324
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: It was suspended during the Napoleonic Wars of one, and

1325
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: then it was it was reinterrupted and then abandoned again

1326
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: to pay for World War One. Some sort of speculate

1327
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: that if the combatants in World War One had stuck

1328
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 1: to the gold standard, then everyone would run out of

1329
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,599
Speaker 1: money and the war wouldn't have been able to go on. Um.

1330
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: And sadly, this idea of kind of sound money and

1331
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 1: of money backed by gold, it kind of goes out

1332
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 1: of the window a lot whenever war comes along. War

1333
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: is a big disruptor of of of of money, of

1334
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 1: sound money. Um. So it was abandoned because we needed

1335
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:46,839
Speaker 1: more tank We needed more guns, bullets, bombs, planes, tanks,

1336
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: whatever we needed to we needed to fight the war.

1337
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: So the gold standard was abandoned. Silver bullets for those

1338
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 1: werewolves exactly, all those all those German werewolves that they

1339
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: were applying on the Western Front. We needed all. Yeah,

1340
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: I needed that and so yeah, other nations had followed

1341
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: Britain onto the gold standard after the Napoleonic Wars. They've gone, hey,

1342
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 1: this is a good idea. Britain's doing pretty well. It's

1343
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: the pre eminent global power, it's got an empire on

1344
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 1: which the sun never sets. Um. And the adoption of

1345
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: a gold standard by European powers, it's sort of brought

1346
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 1: a golden a golden age to Europe. And the only

1347
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: thing that brought that to an end was obviously World

1348
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 1: War One. At the end of World War One, the

1349
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: Allied Powers turned around and went, right, Germany, you're going

1350
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: to pay for this quite literally, um, and yeah, the

1351
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: reparations payments they were agreed at the Treaty of Versailles

1352
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 1: in and they were ruinous. They basically said, right, you've

1353
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 1: got to pay for this entire war. And this led

1354
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: Germany down the down the road to sort of hyperinflation

1355
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: because it just it didn't have they didn't have any money.

1356
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 1: It tried to print more money um and devalued its

1357
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: currency and everything basically went to pot. Yeah, everything went

1358
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 1: down the toilet um. So the years after World War

1359
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 1: One saw economic catastrophes across the world. Germany, as I say,

1360
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,679
Speaker 1: was crippled by hyper inflation. Then we had the Great

1361
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: Depression in thirty nine, which devastated world economies. That was

1362
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:17,599
Speaker 1: mass unemployment, stagnating wages. Everything was going down. That done

1363
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 1: the toilet. But this came to an end with the

1364
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 1: outbreak of World War two. Now we can't sort of

1365
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 1: solely blame Hitler and the Nazis and their rise to

1366
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 1: power on the break from the gold standard. Roosevelts made

1367
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: it illegal for Americans to own gold. They had to

1368
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: sell it back to the state at the rate of

1369
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: just over twenty dollars an ounce, and then the dollar

1370
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: was revalued to thirty five dollars an ounce. So it's

1371
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: again this kind of a bit like Nero did, this

1372
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 1: kind of idea that the currency was devalue, all the

1373
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:49,679
Speaker 1: gold was taken in and then more money was made um.

1374
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: But this was done because it was felt that U

1375
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: S citizens hoarding gold was stifling growth. Um. And again

1376
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,759
Speaker 1: we this idea of Gresham's law, people holding on to

1377
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: good money, but it means there's less money in the

1378
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 1: economy if people are hoarding, if people are saving. Now,

1379
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: I think this raises quite a valid criticism of the

1380
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 1: gold standard, because I think so far we've given the

1381
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 1: impression that if only everyone had stayed on the gold standard,

1382
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: everything would have been fine. Economies would have flourished, etcetera, etcetera.

1383
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 1: But there is a downside to it by which it

1384
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,920
Speaker 1: can lead to many people, especially very wealthy people, hoarding money,

1385
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: especially in times of crisis. And again this slows down

1386
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 1: the economy. It makes a bad situation worse because there's

1387
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 1: less money, there's less less you can do with it. Trade, innovation,

1388
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 1: all these things are stifled because people are just hoddling. Um.

1389
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: So the money raised by devaluing the dollar helped pay

1390
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,600
Speaker 1: for the New Deal, which helped lift America out of

1391
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 1: the depression. So this idea of money was money was

1392
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 1: kind of freed up and a lot of Americans, obviously

1393
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 1: those are holding a lot of gold, got pretty upset

1394
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 1: about it. But it seems in retrospect to have worked

1395
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 1: because corp. Yeah. Now, obviously, after World War Two, the

1396
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 1: USA was the dominant global power, is the only one

1397
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 1: that hadn't sort of been bombed or invaded or fought over.

1398
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: The Breton Woods Conference in n saw the dollar pegged

1399
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: to gold, and all other world currency currencies were in

1400
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: turn pegged to the dollar, and this made the dollar

1401
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: the kind of world's reserve currency because obviously the US

1402
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 1: was the world's strongest economy. Um, it had plenty, it

1403
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: was holding plenty of gold in its vaults. Everything was fine, supposedly. Unfortunately,

1404
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: the US then got involved in a place called Vietnam, which,

1405
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: as we all know, did not go well, and basically

1406
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: as it didn't as it did with Iraq and Afghanistan

1407
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: in more recent times, basically through money at this war,

1408
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 1: and again we have war coming along to disrupt. Yeah.

1409
01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 1: So America was bleeding money in Vietnam, amongst other things, um,

1410
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: and it was also losing out to other to other nations.

1411
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,760
Speaker 1: It was a trade deficit opened up, and it was

1412
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 1: finding it increasingly difficult to compete nation. Yeah, the lags

1413
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,599
Speaker 1: of China, China, China, UM, and yes, so other there

1414
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: was a trade deficit. Other countries were undercutting American workers,

1415
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: especially in things like manufacturing. Um. And there were a

1416
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: few instances other countries started to kind of lose their

1417
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 1: confidence in the US in this in this dollar peg

1418
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 1: in the Breton Wood Yeah, Vietnam, I think it had

1419
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: their own problems, but yeah, there would have. There would

1420
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: have obviously been a lot of people who were not

1421
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: too happy about the Breton Woods agreement and and the

1422
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: dollar being the world's reserve currency and being pegged to gold, etcetera, etcetera. UM,

1423
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 1: and there's a great instance. Um, A lot of countries

1424
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: started to lose their confidence in in in this system. France,

1425
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: those French again decided to send a battleship over to

1426
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 1: America to pick up its gold. So in nineteen seventy one, Nixon,

1427
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:03,759
Speaker 1: that guy, he abandoned the gold I am not a crook.

1428
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:07,360
Speaker 1: I am not a crook exactly. Um. So he abandoned

1429
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: the gold peg. He took the dollar he took, and

1430
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: then other currencies began to abandon their pegs to the dollar.

1431
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: And this was the kind of the beginning of the

1432
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,599
Speaker 1: real era of fiat money. Now we've talked that, we've

1433
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: used this term feat a few times. Fear always comes

1434
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 1: up when we're talking crypto. Um, So let's just quickly

1435
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: go over what fear money is. So, without without currencies

1436
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 1: paid to any other asset, countries across the world now

1437
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: had complete control over their money supplies, how much money

1438
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: they produced, what it was worth, etcetera. Um. And this

1439
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 1: is fiat money, money that is valuable because a government

1440
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 1: says so. Fat is Latin for let it be done

1441
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 1: so in English this has come to mean a decree

1442
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: or order, especially by those who have the authority to

1443
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: enforce it. So fiat money is money by decree. Fiat

1444
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 1: money doesn't have to be backed by gold or any

1445
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: other asset. Guns just guns. Yeah, the violence, the monopoly

1446
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,479
Speaker 1: on violence. So governments are free to produce as much

1447
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: of it as they want. And after there were periods

1448
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: when this fat money allowed for growth and prosperity. Again,

1449
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 1: so the lack of any gold standard meant that the

1450
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: supply of money basically grew unchecked. Banks were effectively able

1451
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: to create new money by issuing debt. And again this

1452
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: is something that will look at in future episodes the

1453
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 1: ability of banks to create money. It is a lot

1454
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 1: more complicated than that, but this is the This is

1455
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: the era of fiat money, money being created almost out

1456
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 1: of thin air. And you can see where this is leading,

1457
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: I think, um and there are a few steps along

1458
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 1: the way. An important moment is the repeal of the

1459
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 1: Glass Stiegel Act in under Bill Clinton. That meant that

1460
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: commercial banks now I think of commercial banks as kind

1461
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 1: of piggy banks, and investment banks think of them as casinos.

1462
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: Now these were these were these couldn't operate together before

1463
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 1: the repeal of last st Eagel. But when the Glass

1464
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: Steagel Act was enacted, investment banks and commercial banks could

1465
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,679
Speaker 1: be merged. And this meant that the kind of casino

1466
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,759
Speaker 1: banks were able to take the money from savings banks,

1467
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,919
Speaker 1: you know, the money that carefully and gamble with exactly.

1468
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 1: And this eventually led to the crash of two thousand

1469
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: and eight, where banks had created they basically created so

1470
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: many complicated derivative products and debt that the whole system

1471
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: basically imploded. But the crash of two thousand and eight

1472
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: obviously was the kind of the low point for fiat

1473
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: money and this is what brought us to the invention

1474
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:39,479
Speaker 1: of bitcoin and the birth of cryptocurrencies. And this again

1475
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 1: is something we're going to cover in the next episode.

1476
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,680
Speaker 1: We're going to look at why bitcoin was invented, what

1477
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: it was invented in reaction to m and the problems

1478
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 1: it looked to solve. So should we wrap things up?

1479
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 1: How have you found today? Has it been a wild ride?

1480
01:24:56,600 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: Wild is not the word I would use. Fascinating. I

1481
01:25:00,920 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 1: didn't realize that um sort of currencies and armies were

1482
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 1: so closely linked. The ability of money to sort of

1483
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: be a catalyst for innovation is a lot clearer now.

1484
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 1: And how countries have sort of harnessed UM you know

1485
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: that that power and allowed it's it's citizens to sort

1486
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 1: of flourish has been real eye opener um war as

1487
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: a distributor, but obviously a bit more complicated with with

1488
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: with things like that. But yeah, it's been fascinating. Really,

1489
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: it has been quite interesting. Great, Yeah, and I think

1490
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: that's so. But again, this idea of money as a

1491
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: technology evolving over time and a facility. It's a technology

1492
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 1: that allows other tech to be driven exactly. Yeah, it's

1493
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: kind of it's grease the wheels hasn't it. It's easy

1494
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 1: to it's easy to think that if if we were

1495
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 1: still trading with shells or cows, or or just even

1496
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 1: lumps of metal, we would still be in a pretty

1497
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 1: primitive state. That the great leaps forward, the innovations, the expeditions,

1498
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: the discoveries, all this, all this sort of stuff, it

1499
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been possible without money being created behind it.

1500
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 1: And yeah, this technology has done wonderful things, and as

1501
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: it's evolved, it's let us do more. And the ability

1502
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: to create new money has made us richer. But obviously,

1503
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 1: as we've seen, it's come with with dangers um and

1504
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:40,719
Speaker 1: the unchecked creation of new money today is obviously driving

1505
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 1: fears of inflation. But I guess that, I guess what

1506
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:48,360
Speaker 1: we can take away is that cryptocurrency is basically the

1507
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 1: latest technological innovation of money. It's the latest stage. It's

1508
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 1: the iPhone fourteen? What iPhone away on? Now? It's the

1509
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: iPhone thirty? Well, maybe it is the iPhone four team

1510
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: because it is the future. Perhaps it's even what Perhaps

1511
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 1: it's the iPhone itself, because I mean, the iPhone was

1512
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 1: such a big moment, wasn't it. I Mean, there are

1513
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: iPhones or iPhones. Now it's just but actually, cryptocurrency is

1514
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 1: this latest technological leap. It's the iPhone of money. It's

1515
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 1: evolved to combat some of the problems with the modern

1516
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 1: monetary system. Um. And yeah, it's the latest, it's the

1517
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 1: latest step on the path, and it's going to be

1518
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be so interesting over in these few episodes. Yeah,

1519
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting to see how this latest technology or latest

1520
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: form of financial technology greases the wheels of future innovation exactly, exactly,

1521
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: and a lot of people, I think with any new technology,

1522
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 1: people are always going to be suspicious of it. Um.

1523
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: They're always going to have their doubts and they're going

1524
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 1: to go, well, how does this work? Is what is

1525
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: this glass bead? Yeah? What is this? What is this

1526
01:27:56,200 --> 01:28:00,240
Speaker 1: deer skin? This gold peg? Yeah? Paper money, it will

1527
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 1: never catch on. Yeah, chickens, No, give me my turnip?

1528
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: Are you a turnip? Are you a chicken? What is

1529
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 1: this chicken money? Yeah? Yeah, cryptocurrency, it's um. People are

1530
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: naturally still suspicious of it, but it's going to open

1531
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:18,720
Speaker 1: up so many new opportunities. I think this has been

1532
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:23,919
Speaker 1: really let's flush this toilet, get out of Ellen's bathroom.

1533
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Bathroom yeah, I think. Yeah, we finished powdering our noses

1534
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:28,920
Speaker 1: and leave. We don't want to be caught in here.

1535
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 1: I think we'd have too many questions to answer. Thanks folks,

1536
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: but for more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the

1537
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1538
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: your podcasts. The coin Gero podcast is a production of

1539
01:28:50,320 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio eight two