Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Do Cool Stuff. Your podcast,
Speaker 2: it's yours, You belongs to you because it's part of
Speaker 2: the commons. You see what I did there. If you
Speaker 2: didn't listen to part one, you have no idea what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. But you might know my guest, Robert Evans,
Speaker 2: that's right in the bastards.
Speaker 3: Yes, uh, and I legally own all podcasts. Actually, I
Speaker 3: came up with the idea. Before me, no one had
Speaker 3: ever had the idea to steal the human voice and
Speaker 3: imprison it in an audio file. You know I invented that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, the first wax cylinder Robert Evans special.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, it's audio Drunken Try to Pizza Hut.
Speaker 2: Our producer is Sophie.
Speaker 1: Robert says is a lie. Everything Margaret says is the truth.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, market guards getting at that.
Speaker 3: If podcasting, ever doesn't work out, you and I could
Speaker 3: get get a gig doing that guarding some rich guys. Dungeon.
Speaker 2: I look good in the suit of full plate armor
Speaker 2: of a Halbert just saying now they have the like
Speaker 2: every now and then the Internet figures out that some
Speaker 2: Victorian rich people had had like hermits that they hired
Speaker 2: to like little in the property. The new one should
Speaker 2: be the the ominous Guards.
Speaker 3: The harminous Guards, one of whom tells only lies and
Speaker 3: the other speaks the truth.
Speaker 2: And honestly guarding our legal liability by cutting out when
Speaker 2: we say things we shouldn't. Is our audio engineer, Daniel Hi, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dannel, Robert fucking say it?
Speaker 3: Hi, Daniel, Okay good?
Speaker 2: And our theme musical was written for us by n women.
Speaker 2: And this is part two in a two parter about
Speaker 2: the Luddites. And I wonder if there's people who actually
Speaker 2: only listen a part two of mine because they know
Speaker 2: the first part is contact. But you're gonna miss so
Speaker 2: much and you won't understand why it's cool if you
Speaker 2: don't go back and listen to part one. There's poetry
Speaker 2: and fire. So the Ladites. I mentioned that there was
Speaker 2: a war going on in Europe, the Napoleonic Wars, and
Speaker 2: this was fucking everything up as war tends to do.
Speaker 2: It was fucking up industry and the economy and food
Speaker 2: and all of that shit. It didn't help that you
Speaker 2: also get like four years of bad harvest in a
Speaker 2: row and there's a fucking comet in the sky and
Speaker 2: everyone you know is dying in Europe fighting a Napoleon,
Speaker 2: and trade embargoes are cutting off entire markets for textile exports,
Speaker 2: which is ten percent of what the British people do
Speaker 2: for work. Food prices are rising dramatically. People are living
Speaker 2: literally starving in a lot of these working class towns,
Speaker 2: and all of these fucking factories are suddenly popping up everywhere,
Speaker 2: and trade unionism is out, And we do and don't
Speaker 2: know a lot about the Luddites. There are endless well
Speaker 2: researched books written about them, and there are plenty of
Speaker 2: primary sources because they weren't afraid to write. But they
Speaker 2: were also a secret society and they took it their
Speaker 2: vow of secrecy really seriously. A lot of what we
Speaker 2: know only came out decades later as old Luddites approached
Speaker 2: the end of their lives, and it's like the eighteen
Speaker 2: sixties and they're like, I fine, I guess I could
Speaker 2: fucking talk about that shit. You know, so not the
Speaker 2: best way to get super accurate information. They are also
Speaker 2: such mythic figures that everyone tries to write a story
Speaker 2: onto them. I'm honestly doing it too. I'm trying not
Speaker 2: to write, but it's impossible. But we do know a
Speaker 2: lot of their actions. The Ludites weren't all over England.
Speaker 2: They were in what gets called the Luddite Triangle, which
Speaker 2: should have been called the Ludic triangle if you ask me,
Speaker 2: but no one did because I wasn't born and might
Speaker 2: have a different etymological route. There was a triangle formed
Speaker 2: by Yorkshire in the north west to Lancashire and down
Speaker 2: to Leicestershire.
Speaker 3: Leicester. I know that because I've pronounced it wrong on
Speaker 3: the show and everyone in England is like, how did
Speaker 3: you not guess that? It's pronounced completely differently from how
Speaker 3: it's spelled.
Speaker 2: But it's Leicester.
Speaker 3: You have wester.
Speaker 2: Leicester because they're the different The bigger areas have the
Speaker 2: Shire at the end, and then the towns look like
Speaker 2: there's like nottingham and then it's in Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire. Get
Speaker 2: your shit together, England, come on, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: Well they're still fighting giants, so it's hard, you know.
Speaker 1: Did you just say get your shit together, England?
Speaker 2: The one thing we don't want them to do.
Speaker 3: You're right the last time that happened.
Speaker 2: It went badly for a lot of people when Albion
Speaker 2: Rises were all in trouble.
Speaker 3: Keep your ship apart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of us. Actually, that's the next line of
Speaker 2: my script. Some of us don't know a lot about England. Say,
Speaker 2: for example, all you know about England is that King
Speaker 2: Uther Pendragon once died while his air was missing, and
Speaker 2: his son Arthur was discovered by pulling a sword out
Speaker 2: of a stone. And the same thing is about to
Speaker 2: happen now, because get it, there's a I'm trying to
Speaker 2: make a reference to things that are happening in the
Speaker 2: modern world and in the news.
Speaker 1: Sophia, are you talking about the fact that nobody's seen
Speaker 1: Printess Kate Middleton in many months and the photoshop fail
Speaker 1: and that the royal family is not explaining why?
Speaker 2: Yes, which I knew about because of you.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Whereas if you want to know about kings who either
Speaker 2: never existed or have been dead for five hundred years,
Speaker 2: I'm your girl. But things that actually impact our lives
Speaker 2: now so versed with.
Speaker 1: This does not impact our lives.
Speaker 2: But that's good.
Speaker 1: Kate Middleton may not be a live which she's not.
Speaker 2: Good unless By the time you're hearing this, she has
Speaker 2: returned with Excalibur and has Warwiz gone to the Isle
Speaker 2: of Avalon and talked to the ladies there to get
Speaker 2: a sword from the lady in the lake.
Speaker 1: Or if you follow conspiracy theories with.
Speaker 2: A brand new face, ooh, I hope there's still a sword.
Speaker 1: Me too, should always be a sword.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other thing that you might know about England is
Speaker 2: that there was a fox named Robin Hood who hung
Speaker 2: out in a forest called Sherwood, robbing people alongside his buddy,
Speaker 2: who was a bear named Little John. For those of
Speaker 2: us who don't know anything beyond that, the ludic triangle
Speaker 2: including not in Him and nottingham Shire and therefore Sherwood Forest.
Speaker 2: In fact, our story starts in Noddingham. Okay it started.
Speaker 2: I'm going to claim it started in November eighteen eleven.
Speaker 2: Other people are like, oh, it was in March, but
Speaker 2: there was like some specific characteristics that made it. Some
Speaker 2: people did some cool shit in March. But I'm gonna
Speaker 2: start at in October. In November, sure, because this is
Speaker 2: when it is more self consciously. The Luodites on November fourth,
Speaker 2: eighteen eleven, on a night lit by the comet in
Speaker 2: Nodingham a small band of men. More women are involved
Speaker 2: later or were written out of this earlier part because
Speaker 2: everything keeps being like and then these men did things,
Speaker 2: and like later in the story they're like, oh, there's
Speaker 2: some women.
Speaker 3: You're like, really they're all along? Yeah, who's to know?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But a small group of people gathered and disguised themselves.
Speaker 2: Some of them blackened their faces with coal, others covered
Speaker 2: their faces with scarves. They are armed with hammers, axes
Speaker 2: and pistols. They make their way to a weaver studio,
Speaker 2: not quite a factory, but a place where machines for
Speaker 2: knitting hoseery are being worked. And they go in and
Speaker 2: they only smash up not all the frames, but the
Speaker 2: wide frames. These are the frames that make cheap, inferior
Speaker 2: product at like greater speeds. A week at the first
Speaker 2: November raid, they went at it again. This time the
Speaker 2: owner was ready. One ludite died and he shouted out, proceeed,
Speaker 2: my brave fellows, I die with a willing heart. This
Speaker 2: might be one of those things where we have it
Speaker 2: fifty years later, but who knows. I'll give it to him.
Speaker 2: He became their first martyr, and his body was displayed
Speaker 2: for all to see, for everyone to get mad at
Speaker 2: the murder. It wasn't like I put his head on
Speaker 2: a pike so everyone doesn't want to fight.
Speaker 3: They did, our boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly in the Marge Simpson voice.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The lud eight smashed their way into the building. The
Speaker 2: defenders fled, and the Luddites went and smashed everything up.
Speaker 2: I suspect that after they had just seen their friends shot,
Speaker 2: they probably were a little less particular in what they
Speaker 2: chose to sabotage. That same night, other Luddites attacked another
Speaker 2: shop and smashed up frames and revenge for that shop,
Speaker 2: hiring what are called colts, which were young men who
Speaker 2: hadn't been apprenticed, basically like old timey scabbing or strike breaking.
Speaker 2: A few days later, a cart full of looms was
Speaker 2: bandited by men who disguise their faces along the road,
Speaker 2: and then they smashed up the looms. That same day,
Speaker 2: a thousand people poured into the town of Sutton, armed
Speaker 2: to the teeth and smashed up all the machines in town.
Speaker 2: The militia came in. There's like no cops basically at
Speaker 2: this time. It's soldiers and militia that are doing all
Speaker 2: the law enforcement at scale. They came in and arrested
Speaker 2: about twelve people the next day, and this is actually
Speaker 2: one of the bigger arrests in the movement. But it
Speaker 2: didn't stop or slow down the movement any appreciable way.
Speaker 2: It's at this point, it's November nineteen eleven that they
Speaker 2: started sending letters out communicate as if you will. All
Speaker 2: of them invoked Edward Lud or ned Lud. Sometimes it
Speaker 2: was King Lud, sometimes it was General Lud, sometimes it
Speaker 2: was Captain and Chief ned Lud. And these letters are threats.
Speaker 2: The letters are stop treating workers as disposable, or will
Speaker 2: destroy your property or maybe just kill you. It was
Speaker 2: quite literally terrorism. Yeah, they had no structural power over
Speaker 2: their bosses or the owning class, and they had no
Speaker 2: other means of recourse, but they had numbers, organization, secrecy,
Speaker 2: and the ability to instill fear. So that's what they did.
Speaker 2: They picked a leader, a fictitious one, and the first
Speaker 2: written version of that ned Lud kid I talked about
Speaker 2: last time comes from eighteen eleven, which was like thirty
Speaker 2: years after it supposedly it happened, So we don't know
Speaker 2: if this is actually the origin. One historian Kirkpatrick's Sale
Speaker 2: makes the case that it could be derived from local
Speaker 2: slang that sent all of a lud meant to smash
Speaker 2: something into a heap, or that it could derive from
Speaker 2: an actual king from eighteen twenty five named King Lud
Speaker 2: or you'll be shocked to know this as my favorite.
Speaker 2: It could also be connected to a King Lund of
Speaker 2: the first century BC, who is connected to the Celtic
Speaker 2: god Lud. That oh, and King Lund might be where
Speaker 2: the name London comes from. It might come from Lundstown,
Speaker 2: but other people make the etymology is out people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're getting shit that old, it's usually like
Speaker 3: this is one of our better guesses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it used to be the best I can tell.
Speaker 2: It used to be a little bit more like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's Lundstown totally, it's from King Lund. And then like
Speaker 2: now people are a little bit it's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: from the Proto Indo European word for like a low
Speaker 2: lying area or whatever. I don't know, but I like
Speaker 2: it when the Ludites get their name from the Celtic
Speaker 2: god lude that obviously is my favorite. All over they
Speaker 2: are you could say soliciting financial support for their movement.
Speaker 2: Other people could say they're extorting it. I think both
Speaker 2: would be perfectly accurate representations. They would leave notes around
Speaker 2: that said things like, gentlemen, all he had Lud's compliments
Speaker 2: and hopes you will give a trifle towards supporting his army,
Speaker 2: as he well understands the art of breaking obnoxious frames.
Speaker 2: If you comply with this it will be well. If not,
Speaker 2: I shall call upon you myself.
Speaker 3: I love that again, very classy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And meanwhile they're starting to robin Hood shit too. They
Speaker 2: are raiding wealthy farms for food and money, and they
Speaker 2: were They decided that they were better than robin Hood.
Speaker 2: Soon enough, an unknown author coined a famous rhyme about them.
Speaker 2: Chance know more your old rhymes about bold robin Hood
Speaker 2: his feats. I but little admire, I will sing the
Speaker 2: achievements of General Leude, now the hero of Nottinghamshire. Sometimes
Speaker 2: they worked alone, sometimes they worked in huge formations. And
Speaker 2: there's one problem with running around doing terrorism?
Speaker 3: Oh is there really? Now? This is something new. I've
Speaker 3: never heard of any problems with terrorism, magpie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it turns out that Britain is a particularly
Speaker 2: law and order focused country only at the time.
Speaker 3: Interesting at I may have to change some of my
Speaker 3: vacation plans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good idea. There are about two hundred
Speaker 2: capital offenses on the books in eighteen eleven, including like
Speaker 2: stealing cheap boots or writing threatening letters, also being a
Speaker 2: guy who has sex with another guy capital crime. At
Speaker 2: the time. Ten percent of all criminals who were sentenced
Speaker 2: in England in eighteen ten were sentenced to death.
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Like, Texas, get your shit together, you got to catch up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The rest of Europe was like the rest of Europe
Speaker 2: wasn't really I mean, they had the death penalty, but
Speaker 2: they were like looking over at England being like, y'all right,
Speaker 2: fucking the fuck is happening here?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So England responded to the Ladites by basically being like
Speaker 2: fuck this, fuck them, fuck are on peasants. Let's just
Speaker 2: kill the lot of them. They pulled thousands of troops
Speaker 2: out of the Napoleonic Wars to put down the revolt,
Speaker 2: and this is the largest force used to put down
Speaker 2: a disturbance in English history up to that point. Although
Speaker 2: I've read that in multiple places, I would argue the
Speaker 2: English Civil War was like probably bigger and as many
Speaker 2: disturbance but whatever, I guess since the Civil War like won,
Speaker 2: it's like different, I don't know whatever. Yeah, Nottingham was
Speaker 2: under siege by troops. Anyone who turned informant would be
Speaker 2: pardoned and massive rewards were offered for information. Supposed ring
Speaker 2: leaders were rounded up and a dozen people were arrested,
Speaker 2: but no one turned informant. None of the arrested turned snitch.
Speaker 2: Almost everyone was released for lack of evidence, and none
Speaker 2: of it stopped the raids because they hadn't actually caught.
Speaker 2: It's the thing that we keep running over time and
Speaker 2: time again. The hierarchical organization is like, Haha, we have
Speaker 2: cut off the head of the snake, and then they're like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, it's a jellyfish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one's in charge, we're all just pissed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, a few people did come forward
Speaker 2: to claim the reward for information. All of them were
Speaker 2: scamming the government. None of their lives held up in
Speaker 2: any court case. They just showed up with random ass
Speaker 2: information based which is a sketchy tactic that could get
Speaker 2: people hanged, but it worked, so fuck it. The government
Speaker 2: at the time wrote basically being like, oh, they must
Speaker 2: have an absolute hierarchy in order to have this much organization.
Speaker 2: Historians are pretty sure that they had the opposite thing
Speaker 2: working in their advantage. In some ways, they are quite formal.
Speaker 2: They're drilling out on the moors at night, and they
Speaker 2: are sending representatives back and forth to coordinate between different
Speaker 2: groups sometimes and soon enough they'll be taking oaths of
Speaker 2: secrecy into the society. It was very decentralized, and there's
Speaker 2: no evidence of any kind of any kind of steering committee.
Speaker 2: Some owners started to give in to the Luddites and
Speaker 2: started promising to stop wage cuts and stop churning out
Speaker 2: mediocre hosiery. And this time period sometimes gets called collective
Speaker 2: bargaining by rioty.
Speaker 3: Now, now that sounds like they're onto something here, I
Speaker 3: can get on board.
Speaker 2: It worked and didn't you know. It's like one of
Speaker 2: those things where it's like everything does or doesn't work.
Speaker 2: You know, people are like, oh, this one thing didn't
Speaker 2: work that one time, and you're like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: what doesn't work most of the time most things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the New Year eighteen twelve donned. Nottingham is under
Speaker 2: martial law, and this doesn't stop the antics. A man
Speaker 2: in a goat skin mask with a beard down to
Speaker 2: his waist like waylays a cart full of frames in
Speaker 2: broad daylight and gets away with it and no one
Speaker 2: can track him down.
Speaker 3: The magic of goats, which.
Speaker 2: Is impressed because I mean, yeah, like the godpan has
Speaker 2: now robbed you. But how do you disc the man
Speaker 2: had a beard down to his waist?
Speaker 3: That was a lot I've been. I've been some places
Speaker 3: in the world where it's like, well, that has not
Speaker 3: narrowed it down at all. Okay, We're in this village
Speaker 3: in like rural Iraq. There's a lot of men with
Speaker 3: beards down to their waists.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough, And I want to know what
Speaker 2: the goat's skin mask was. I want to know more
Speaker 2: about that. Did it look like a goat or was
Speaker 2: it just a bandana? Or was it? Who knows? On
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day eighteen twelve, the government, as a love letter
Speaker 2: to the common people, passed a new law death penalty
Speaker 2: for anyone who's caught breaking a frame. Okay, during the
Speaker 2: debates in the House of Lords, a young new baron
Speaker 2: in the House of Lords went up and gave a speech,
Speaker 2: and it is his first speech before the House and
Speaker 2: it is a defense of the Luddites. He is the
Speaker 2: lone voice speaking out in defense of the Ludites. And
Speaker 2: his name is Lord Byron, the first vanik Go.
Speaker 3: Yes, he is.
Speaker 2: More famous as a romantic poet than being the first vampire,
Speaker 2: and for being friends with the Shelleys and the father
Speaker 2: of Ada Lovelace, who is probably the first computer programmer.
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna tell you about how he's the first vampire.
Speaker 2: Have you heard this story? Yeah, bits of it? Yes, Okay,
Speaker 2: we I'm gonna tell it to you again. Anyway. There's
Speaker 2: this famous ghost story competition that happens in Switzerland where
Speaker 2: Percy Shelley, Mary Shelley, and Lord Byron are the only
Speaker 2: three people there that person not true and they have
Speaker 2: a ghost story competition, And this is where Frankenstein comes from, right,
Speaker 2: And Percy Shelley and Lord Byron wrote some forgettable stuff.
Speaker 2: What Lord Byron told was like not technically a vampire story,
Speaker 2: but not not a vampire story, like could have been
Speaker 2: a vampire story, but there was another person there. There's
Speaker 2: probably a bunch more people there. There's probably servants there
Speaker 2: all over the place, but there's this like hanger on,
Speaker 2: who is it in the employee of Lord Byron, John Polardori,
Speaker 2: and the two men. The two men might have been fucking.
Speaker 2: Lord Byron was absolutely bisexual, which is actually part of
Speaker 2: why he left England is that that was a capital crime.
Speaker 2: Whether just as friend or employer or lover. Lord Byron
Speaker 2: was a shit to John Polodori. He's like constantly like
Speaker 2: making fun of him and shit, And it's basically like, Ah,
Speaker 2: this drag of a guy, I gotta keep around me.
Speaker 3: It's like the pickup artists always say, negging is the
Speaker 3: best way to hit on someone.
Speaker 2: I know, Lord Byron is the expert at this.
Speaker 3: It works great on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But the other thing is that every single historian
Speaker 2: is like John Polardari sucked and was annoying as hell.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, was he or was he in an
Speaker 2: abusive relationship with Lord Byron? I don't know whatever happened.
Speaker 2: John wrote a story called The Vampire, and this is
Speaker 2: this is the creation of the vampire as a romantic
Speaker 2: character in Western literature prior to this. The vampire is
Speaker 2: an Eastern European folklore creature that is like not incredibly
Speaker 2: distinct from a zombie or a ghost or something, you know,
Speaker 2: it's like someone has come back from the dead, but
Speaker 2: it's not an aristocratic romantic character. So Lord Ruthven the
Speaker 2: vampire in the story The Vampire is absolutely a parody
Speaker 2: of Lord Byron, and it is this heartbreaking story about
Speaker 2: kind of being attached to and traveling with this guy
Speaker 2: who's just seducing women everywhere and sucks and to make
Speaker 2: things worse. So Lord Byron is the first vampire, and
Speaker 2: John Polodaria is like, Oh, I wish I could like
Speaker 2: have my own career, but I'm attached to this rich
Speaker 2: man or whatever. Right, A magazine found his story and
Speaker 2: published it under the name Lord Byron, and so he
Speaker 2: just like can't exist in his own way.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We talked about this during our Dracula episodes. Oh
Speaker 3: shit o yeah, but without this much detail, I didn't
Speaker 3: really get into anything about like their relationship, yeah, which
Speaker 3: is such a fucked up thing to have happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then like a couple of years after this,
Speaker 2: John Pulladari probably kills himself at a pretty young age.
Speaker 2: It's like he died of accidental poisoning. But most people
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, he killed himself. That is like more
Speaker 2: the gay love affair thing is like conjecture, right, But
Speaker 2: it's funny to me to realize that the modern vampire
Speaker 2: might exist because of a salty gay love affair. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So what I'm telling you is that the ludd It's
Speaker 2: primary supporter and government. Actually, before that, I should do
Speaker 2: an ad.
Speaker 3: Our primary supporter is.
Speaker 2: Not is all of these ads these guys. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: we're back. The Lunnight's primary supporter and government was the
Speaker 2: first vampire. And his speech went hard. I don't know.
Speaker 2: We might have been a terrible person. He might have
Speaker 2: been a perfectly fine person. And John sucked. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but he was a good writer. He wrote or said,
Speaker 2: is there not blood enough upon your penal code? That
Speaker 2: more must be poured forth to ascend to heaven and
Speaker 2: testify against you? How will you carry the bill into effect?
Speaker 2: Can you commit a whole country to their own prisons?
Speaker 2: Will you erect a gibbet in every field and hang
Speaker 2: men up like scarecrows? And the answers like yes that,
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly what I'll do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're England. He stood alone in the House of
Speaker 2: Lords against the law, and it soon passed, and frankly
Speaker 2: he stood alone against one of the greatest blows against
Speaker 2: the world ever passed by law, because it was one
Speaker 2: of the landmark laws in the Industrial Revolution, protecting the
Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution from anyone who is discontented about the way
Speaker 2: that revolution was going, the consequences of which have been
Speaker 2: a disaster for the human race. The law was the
Speaker 2: beginning of the end of the Luddites, but it didn't
Speaker 2: stop them like the beginning of the end. It actually
Speaker 2: was the beginning of them going like twice as hard. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it hardened them. Many of them had thought the government
Speaker 2: was there to protect them, like we were talking about earlier,
Speaker 2: though the crowns on our side, even if the business
Speaker 2: people aren't. This is when they're like, oh, the crown
Speaker 2: existed pretic capital. So between martial law and occupation and
Speaker 2: then soon a trial of some young Luddites happens. It
Speaker 2: puts a damper on activities in Nodingham, so then it
Speaker 2: just springs up in multiple other places. Immediately Lancashire and
Speaker 2: Yorkshire are like, all right, let's fucking go, and they
Speaker 2: went even harder. Raids become more and more frequent, despite
Speaker 2: attempts to stop them. In Yorkshire, they're stockpiling arms that
Speaker 2: they're like robbing from militias and from houses of rich people.
Speaker 2: They're more violent, they're more disciplined, and they're more likely
Speaker 2: to perceive themselves as a revolutionary force. They add a
Speaker 2: solemn oath to the mix, and to join the movement
Speaker 2: is to be twisted in because these are like wolf
Speaker 2: spinners and shit, right. I like that, Yeah, as if
Speaker 2: an individual fiber is spun into yarn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: The oath was a far more poetic and long winded
Speaker 2: way of saying if I snitch, someone should kill me.
Speaker 2: They've got secret signals and like hand gestures. They have
Speaker 2: a call in response, and the call in response is
Speaker 2: what are you determined? What for free liberty? And the
Speaker 2: government is like, hey, this is an insurrection and they're right.
Speaker 2: They call themselves the army of redressers sometimes, and they
Speaker 2: are genuinely building towards a revolution. At least many of
Speaker 2: them saw themselves this way. Not necessarily everyone involved, but
Speaker 2: this is manster of every revolution, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They were in connection with with quote the Papists in Ireland.
Speaker 2: They were building ties with Scotland and France. They're doing
Speaker 2: what a lot of different people who are mad at
Speaker 2: the English government do, which is like, yo, France, you
Speaker 2: want to invade? Could you invade real quick?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And they were putting out explicit calls to end the
Speaker 2: monarchy and usher in or republic. At the core of it,
Speaker 2: they're mad because they're starving, right, they are barely able
Speaker 2: to find work. They're subsisting off of oatmeal and like
Speaker 2: a scarce potato here and there, and they're watching people,
Speaker 2: especially infants, die of malnutrition.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That would that would make me unhappy. I would be.
Speaker 2: Miffed, Yeah, a little bit, a little bit upset.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I might write a strongly worded letter.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but I would be writing letters two or
Speaker 3: three times a week.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And these people were too. They just the strong
Speaker 2: words were a little stronger, and they had something behind them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing that's hard for the modern
Speaker 2: European left to understand about the Luddites is that these
Speaker 2: workers were fighting for tradition against the industrial revolution. They
Speaker 2: were fighting for cultural lifeways. So they weren't revolutionaries in
Speaker 2: a certain context, right. They were fighting for the preservation
Speaker 2: of an existent or a previous way of life. There
Speaker 2: were utopian dreamers among them, but it was a utopianism
Speaker 2: based on the foundations of their actual lifeways and culture,
Speaker 2: and as a vibe more familiar to leftist and radicals
Speaker 2: who come from outside the imperial core, is what I
Speaker 2: would argue.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: It also is part of why the right wing tries
Speaker 2: to claim this kind of stuff. At this point, they
Speaker 2: add arson to their toolbox. On January nineteenth, eighteen twelve,
Speaker 2: they burn down a mill with no one inside, and
Speaker 2: soon they burn an awful lot more. And at this point,
Speaker 2: none of them, even when they're running around with axes
Speaker 2: and swords and shit, none of them are killing people
Speaker 2: on purpose at this point. And I think, actually they
Speaker 2: haven't killed anyone at this point. A lot of them
Speaker 2: have died. One of the more notable Luodites was of
Speaker 2: the more militant variety, was this man named George Meller,
Speaker 2: who is twenty four in eighteen twelve, and he was
Speaker 2: a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars. And Robert, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you knew about this thing that I learned
Speaker 2: about from you years ago from one of your podcasts,
Speaker 2: about how when you go train soldiers to go fight
Speaker 2: wars overseas, they can come back and become revolutionaries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out if you make people really good
Speaker 3: at fighting and then they get angry at you, you
Speaker 3: have a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the Luodites, especially once you get up
Speaker 2: into Yorkshire. So this veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, he
Speaker 2: and presumably other veterans, gave the Luddites their military structure
Speaker 2: and tactics. And he was a cropper. Basically, he cut
Speaker 2: cloth for a living, which is a very physically demanding job,
Speaker 2: and croppers were famously large, strong, and fighty. He had
Speaker 2: apprenticed for seven years at this job, and not that
Speaker 2: many people could do this job, so it paid comparatively well.
Speaker 2: New shearing frames were putting them out of work very quickly,
Speaker 2: and soon he'd be lucky to just work in some
Speaker 2: factory somewhere if he found a job at all.
Speaker 3: Sure, So in.
Speaker 2: Eighteen twelve and in April eighteen twelve, George Meller and
Speaker 2: more than one hundred of his closest friends armed themselves
Speaker 2: with everything from guns to rocks and everything in between,
Speaker 2: and they marched on a mill called the Rawfolds Mill,
Speaker 2: owned by a mister Cartwright. Some of the men carried
Speaker 2: huge sledge hammers called Enoch, like they'd be like make
Speaker 2: way for Enoch when some hammering needed to happen. And
Speaker 2: they were called this because the maker of the hammers
Speaker 2: which they used for work was a guy named Enoch,
Speaker 2: and he's like not on their side. He also makes
Speaker 2: a bunch of the machines. It's just like his design.
Speaker 2: But they're Ludites, so of course they're aware of and
Speaker 2: making reference to biblical forces when they say all this shit.
Speaker 2: Enoch is a guy who lived for three hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty five years and walked into heaven alive rather than
Speaker 2: waiting to die.
Speaker 3: Based.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they storm this mill, but it's not empty.
Speaker 2: Mister Cartwright and nine others with four loyal workers and
Speaker 2: five soldiers from the local militia, they're inside and they've
Speaker 2: like defended there. They've like built everything to have little
Speaker 2: pulleys that pull up things to block things and reinforce
Speaker 2: the door and all this shit. And the defenders open
Speaker 2: fire and they're like, bring forth Enoch, and Enoch, you know,
Speaker 2: runs to the front and starts to batter down the door,
Speaker 2: which is heavily reinforced. Takes a very long time for
Speaker 2: them to break through. And now we get to my
Speaker 2: favorite named character and the whole story with my favorite
Speaker 2: line in the whole story. A young apprentice named John Booth,
Speaker 2: forever known to history as not the other John Booth.
Speaker 2: This is the good John Booth. He did not shoot
Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln. Instead he himself.
Speaker 3: But when people don't shoot Abraham Lincoln, one of my
Speaker 3: favorite things for people to do is not shoot Abraham Lincoln.
Speaker 2: I know almost everyone in the world has succeeded at that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the vast majority of people eating h on musk,
Speaker 3: as far as I know, has not shot Abrahamley. Now
Speaker 3: would he have? Maybe?
Speaker 2: Does he probably have a secret machine to build a
Speaker 2: time machine to go back and shoot Abraham Lincoln sooner
Speaker 2: so that he can have aparthe'd last longer in South Africa?
Speaker 2: Who can I can't legally say, I can't prove it yet,
Speaker 2: But the good John Booth he takes a musket ball
Speaker 2: to the leg and he goes down, and soon enough
Speaker 2: a blacksmith is shot two and the alarm bell is ringing,
Speaker 2: and the literal cavalry is on its way, and so
Speaker 2: the Luddites retreat and they're like there's like tearful goodbyes
Speaker 2: where they're like I don't think we can take you
Speaker 2: with us, but remember your oath. Okay, bud okay, good luck,
Speaker 2: my friend, and they like leave tearfully. They leave two wounded,
Speaker 2: dying comrades. There's no time to drag them away. Both
Speaker 2: men were interrogated, neither gave anything up, and it might
Speaker 2: be apocryphal, but it's my favorite last words in history.
Speaker 2: The interrogator, possibly the local priest who is a super
Speaker 2: anti Luddite, guys like, all right, tell us what you know,
Speaker 2: give us some names. John Booth looks up and says,
Speaker 2: can you keep a secret, and the priest is like,
Speaker 2: of course. John Booth says so can I.
Speaker 3: God, that's cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And then stuff like that too, where it's like
Speaker 5: they could have stopped anyone from learning about his last words,
Speaker 5: but it was just too cool.
Speaker 3: To not even as the guys you killed them, you're like, well,
Speaker 3: but we gotta tell people. That was just too badass,
Speaker 3: I know, I know. Or like they were like, can
Speaker 3: you believe the rickalcitrins of these stupid you know whatever?
Speaker 2: But yeah, no exactly, And John Booth dies on the
Speaker 2: operating table as they're amputating his leg. This is not
Speaker 2: a good time to get shot in the leg.
Speaker 3: Not like today. Today's really a golden age for getting
Speaker 3: shot in the leg.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you of any year that has happened. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if I were to pick a year to get shot
Speaker 2: in the leg, if he's probably about fifteen years ago
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 3: If you've become unstuck in time like Billy Pilgrim and
Speaker 3: you're planning on getting shot in the leg at some
Speaker 3: point now is definitely the destination.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. One of the soldiers inside the mill refused
Speaker 2: to shoot on the crowd when he's ordered to. He
Speaker 2: puts down his gun and says he can't shoot upon
Speaker 2: his brothers, and he is court martialed. And then because
Speaker 2: of all of English history is one tiny town, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to tie in, Yeah, three more literary figures.
Speaker 3: There have only been thirty people in English history.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at least that wrote things that got remembered. There's
Speaker 2: another reverend in the town, and this one's not anti Luddite.
Speaker 2: He's an Irish Anglican guy. I don't think he's like
Speaker 2: pro them specifically, but he's like neutral or whatever. And
Speaker 2: he sees people sneaking into the church's graveyard at night
Speaker 2: to secretly bury two Luttites who'd been killed in the raids,
Speaker 2: whose names are lost to history, and he didn't say
Speaker 2: anything to anyone about it, because no one should be
Speaker 2: punished for performing a Christian burial. That guy's name was
Speaker 2: Reverend Patrick Bronte, only famous to history because his three
Speaker 2: daughters are the fucking Bronte sisters who wrote like everything,
Speaker 2: the guy Cartwright, the mill owner, is hated by Luddites.
Speaker 2: Every door after this happens, after these people are killed,
Speaker 2: has vengeance for the blood of the innocent chalked on it.
Speaker 2: One morning after the death of good John Booth and
Speaker 2: the others based And it's this interesting thing where I
Speaker 2: think the people, the Luddites genuinely believe that they have
Speaker 2: been wronged for being shot while they're trying to destroy
Speaker 2: things with axes and hammers, you know, yeah, yeah, which
Speaker 2: sounds almost silly now, but like in retrospect you're like, well,
Speaker 2: probably you shouldn't shoot people for destroying property.
Speaker 3: That's yeah.
Speaker 2: The Ludites for the first time, they are planning specific
Speaker 2: and actual violence. When Cartwright was leaving town, he'd been
Speaker 2: in town testifying at the court martial of the soldier
Speaker 2: he wasn't like, oh, I understand my boy. He was like,
Speaker 2: fuck you. You didn't fucking shoot people. Some folks from the
Speaker 2: bushes tried to shoot him but missed, and no one
Speaker 2: knows for sure whether that was like trying to kill
Speaker 2: him or it was like warning shots to be like
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of here, but they were probably
Speaker 2: trying to kill him. Around this time, they develop a
Speaker 2: new tactic, food riots. Food riots start breaking out everywhere.
Speaker 2: A lot of historians discount them from the story of
Speaker 2: the Luddites, and I think that's because of misogyny, because
Speaker 2: it's mostly men doing the raids at night, and it
Speaker 2: is mostly women leading and participating in the food riots
Speaker 2: and being hanged for it. At least two of these
Speaker 2: women called themselves Lady lud while leading these fucking food riots,
Speaker 2: and people are like, ah, oh, does this really count?
Speaker 2: I don't know. The prices of basic foods were skyrocketing.
Speaker 2: One woman named Hannah Smith, she was fifty four. She
Speaker 2: was hanged for handing out potatoes to a crowd from
Speaker 2: a cart she commandeered. They called it highway robbery in
Speaker 2: order to hang her, and food riots turned into rob
Speaker 2: the militias and steal their guns riots, and soon the
Speaker 2: overall tactic of the Luddites was to start with a
Speaker 2: food riot and then move into attacks on factories and mansions.
Speaker 2: Two men in dresses led a riotous crowd to a
Speaker 2: factory owner's mansion and then everyone broke out the windows
Speaker 2: of the place with rocks. And this is the only
Speaker 2: known for certain time that crossdressers were involved, but it
Speaker 2: is the symbol of the movement for generations to come,
Speaker 2: is to have like kind of like a big strong
Speaker 2: man with a sledgehammer wearing a dress. And what's interesting
Speaker 2: about it is that the historians who like the Luddites
Speaker 2: tend to downplay the cross dressing, whereas those who like
Speaker 2: want to accuse it of being like silly and fight
Speaker 2: against modernity and annoying play up the cross dressing. But
Speaker 2: even the downplayers are like, well, there might have been
Speaker 2: more articles of women's clothing like here and there among
Speaker 2: the rest of the raids. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: this was a common method of disguise and more like
Speaker 2: carnival that was part of rebellions in England and Ireland
Speaker 2: at this point. It comes from this sort of world
Speaker 2: turned upside down thing that happens at festivals, which is
Speaker 2: the like someone's king for a day, or you know,
Speaker 2: the lay people are the priests and the priests are
Speaker 2: the lay people, this kind of thing, and often the
Speaker 2: Luddites will claim themselves as General Luod's wives, and I
Speaker 2: of course you will be shocked to know. I think
Speaker 2: is really cool that they were all a bunch of
Speaker 2: weird cross dressers.
Speaker 3: Yes, that is like, that's also just a thing the
Speaker 3: English do a lot. I mean, like we all know
Speaker 3: our Monty Python. There's like a long and complicated history
Speaker 3: of cross dressing, specifically in the UK. Yep.
Speaker 2: But what there isn't a complicated history of in the
Speaker 2: UK is advertisement. Because if you're listening to this in
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Speaker 3: We're entirely sponsored by the British Royal Family, that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so check that out. You know, you know, the British
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Speaker 2: Okay. So another time, five Loodites are killed and eighteen
Speaker 2: injured when thousands of women and men storm a factory
Speaker 2: and were met with rifle fire. So you're moving towards
Speaker 2: these daytime raids, these like larger mass actions. And it's
Speaker 2: around this point when even the misogynists have to admit
Speaker 2: women were heavily involved in the movement. Yeah, the crowds
Speaker 2: get larger and larger, the attacks get more brazen, and
Speaker 2: the persecution becomes more deadly. And these crowds would march
Speaker 2: with a straw dummy held aloft which represented ned Lud
Speaker 2: and they flew a fucking red flag, the flag of revolt,
Speaker 2: which is way older than state socialism. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And as many as thirty people were killed one day
Speaker 2: in an attack on one owner's mansion. They were met
Speaker 2: with sword and rifle from cavalry. And they're still at
Speaker 2: this point rarely shooting back. Their goal isn't violence, not directly,
Speaker 2: but intimidation and destruction. It's around this point that spies
Speaker 2: are starting to success get into the movement. At least
Speaker 2: nine of them, and around one or two of the
Speaker 2: arrestees were starting to talk, but really very very few.
Speaker 2: In the end, the government, not particularly fond of being overthrown,
Speaker 2: just put thousands of soldiers into these tiny areas, like
Speaker 2: fourteen thousand soldiers. I've read somewhere that one in seventy
Speaker 2: people in the entire triangle was a soldier.
Speaker 3: Gny Christmas.
Speaker 2: The rewards kept getting raised higher and higher. At some
Speaker 2: point they're offering two thousand pounds, which is literally a
Speaker 2: lifetime's wages, is forty years of wages at the like
Speaker 2: decent previous artisan rate. No one takes it. The occupying
Speaker 2: force was rather rude, to say the least. They weren't
Speaker 2: there weren't enough barracks, and they were all housed in
Speaker 2: like local pubs and just kind of like took over
Speaker 2: these towns. And then at the end of April they
Speaker 2: entered their final phase where most movements that don't succeed go,
Speaker 2: when most movements that don't become widespread popular were across
Speaker 2: the entire.
Speaker 3: Ta, don't become a government, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of them turned to reform because the government
Speaker 2: started promising like, oh well, like look into some stuff,
Speaker 2: and some of them, because of the repression, turned to
Speaker 2: increasingly isolated acts of armed insurrection violence appropriation and assassination
Speaker 2: in the name of outright revolution. One owner had the
Speaker 2: picked the wrong name for his family. His name was Horsefall,
Speaker 2: and he said he wanted to ride his horse up
Speaker 2: to the saddle and Luddite blood. He really didn't like
Speaker 2: the Luodites very much, and he was so famous for
Speaker 2: saying this shit that little kids, like local kids in
Speaker 2: the area would like run in front of his horse
Speaker 2: and be like, I'm general, lud, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: You know, Oh boy, brave kids, I know.
Speaker 2: Like they're not quite old enough for the factory job.
Speaker 2: Just kidding their old enough for the factory jobs. Mel Or,
Speaker 2: that veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, he has it out
Speaker 2: for this particular owner, Horsefall. He once says that he
Speaker 2: saw an infant die at its mother's breast while Meller
Speaker 2: like rode by uncarrying he like holds in his version
Speaker 2: of the story, I think it's like he like holds
Speaker 2: the dead baby up to Mellow, who's like, I don't
Speaker 2: even give a shit fuck you. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: really believe that story is too pat but it might
Speaker 2: have happened. I don't know. He doesn't like Horsefall, so
Speaker 2: him and three of his buds. Waylaid horsefall and shot
Speaker 2: him to death. And he fell off his horse. And
Speaker 2: what he said as he fell was not poetic, but
Speaker 2: it was definitely accurate. He shouted murder.
Speaker 3: Well kay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He didn't die right away. He died thirty six hours later.
Speaker 2: His last words were, these are awful times, doctor. And
Speaker 2: that's like kind of I'm like, yeah, I get some
Speaker 2: empathy there.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the revolutionists are robbing mansions for guns for a
Speaker 2: revolution that doesn't happen. The reformists are failing to get
Speaker 2: basic water down reforms pushing through the house pushed to
Speaker 2: the House of Lords, like the House of Commons, like
Speaker 2: take their demands and water them down extensively and then
Speaker 2: put them to the House of lords, who are like,
Speaker 2: we don't give a shit. Where the House of Lords.
Speaker 2: Only Lord Byron is on their side in the House
Speaker 2: of Lords, and it just loses steam in the face
Speaker 2: of military occupation and repression. Also, the Comet's gone. It's
Speaker 2: largely seen as a movement that failed, and that is
Speaker 2: mostly true. It did not win lasting reforms. It did
Speaker 2: not stop the industrial revolution. To be fair, no one
Speaker 2: else did either, But strategically, it was actually kind of
Speaker 2: interestingly a stalemate. The government wanted to kill a lot
Speaker 2: of them, wanted to convict and kill or deport just
Speaker 2: so many people. They had a massive occupation of the area.
Speaker 2: They only managed to get a couple dozen convictions in
Speaker 2: the end with this army, and they managed to send
Speaker 2: some lawdates to Australia, and they hanged others. But for
Speaker 2: all that spies and the astronomically high bounties, the Crown
Speaker 2: couldn't get many arrests, and those they arrested, they couldn't
Speaker 2: get too many convictions. Because this is the thing that
Speaker 2: the Leddites were best at. They shut the fuck up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is the whole secret. Many many more of them
Speaker 2: would have died. You had thousands and thousands of people
Speaker 2: committing capital offenses. No one talked, so not everyone walked,
Speaker 2: but most people did. Thousands of lives saved. They kept
Speaker 2: their mouths shut for decades after. It wasn't until the
Speaker 2: end of the nineteenth century that people started talking about
Speaker 2: the wild shit they'd done in their youth. It was
Speaker 2: also successful that it cemented the Ludite name into history, though,
Speaker 2: of course, the powers of culture and control have done
Speaker 2: an amazing job of turning it into a byword for
Speaker 2: doesn't understand how to program a VCR, which shows how
Speaker 2: old I am, but what I could mean part of
Speaker 2: a seriously amazing armed insurrection that like it is seventy
Speaker 2: two degrees in early March in the mountains while I
Speaker 2: am recording this. If the luddit had succeeded, it might not.
Speaker 3: Be yeah, and we could still have clothing.
Speaker 2: I know, because they weren't trying to get rid of
Speaker 2: the idea of automating anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If they had been.
Speaker 2: Like, hey, y'all, we're going to automate a lot of
Speaker 2: your jobs. Here is a living wage, or here is
Speaker 2: like other ways to express your artistic craft, or like
Speaker 2: here's some you know, or like you're the one who
Speaker 2: can operate this machine, don't worry, here's a pension. Like
Speaker 2: could have been fine. But I will end with one
Speaker 2: more quote from Queen May. That poem by Percy Shelley,
Speaker 2: just a bit of the utopian imagining, because this is
Speaker 2: after the lut eight Rebellion. This poem comes out and
Speaker 2: it is the bible of the working class for multiple generations.
Speaker 2: A brighter morn awaits the human day when every transfer
Speaker 2: of Earth's natural gifts shall be a commerce of good
Speaker 2: words and works, When poverty and wealth, the thirst of fame,
Speaker 2: the fear of infamy, disease and woe, war with its
Speaker 2: million horrors and fierce hell shall live but in the
Speaker 2: memory of time. Wow, them's the ludites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, maybe take some lessons out of those, folks.
Speaker 3: Is we're going to need to do something about this?
Speaker 3: Or seventy two degrees in march in the mountains?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And some of the other lessons you
Speaker 2: can take out of it are like, well, sometimes things
Speaker 2: work and sometimes things don't. And just because something's the
Speaker 2: more militant doesn't make it right, and sometimes because things
Speaker 2: the more reformist, it doesn't make it right. And it
Speaker 2: takes all of us trying different things, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And what it also takes is pivot to plugs.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. Read my book After the Revolution, which is
Speaker 3: about the aftermath of a successful revolution, and shit's still
Speaker 3: fucked up as it always is, but now there's a
Speaker 3: big rolling city, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: That is what I like about the book After the Revolution.
Speaker 2: People haven't read it, they should go out and read it.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, we had a revolution and it didn't
Speaker 2: fix everything, and yeah, some things are more interesting and
Speaker 2: some things are worse, and some things are better and
Speaker 2: some things would have been worse anyway, And like I
Speaker 2: appreciate that it's a little bit more honest. Like I
Speaker 2: like this utopian imagining. This poem I'm closing with Shelley
Speaker 2: being like, oh, you know, we'll be a time without
Speaker 2: war and disease and pover and like no one will
Speaker 2: be poor and no one to be rich. And it's
Speaker 2: like cool, and I'm all about that, but it's also
Speaker 2: not how it's going to go. Yeah, you know, no,
Speaker 2: Like that's the one thing that's the that's the Margaret
Speaker 2: Killjoy promise.
Speaker 3: Yeah you gotta. I mean, one of the things that
Speaker 3: roden Berry got right is that you don't get any
Speaker 3: steps towards utopia without some disasters along the way. And
Speaker 3: then one thing that people who eventually took the series
Speaker 3: from him got right is that maintaining Utopia is also
Speaker 3: a constant battle. Yeah, things just start nice forever. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I really I've been on a Star Trek kick lately too.
Speaker 3: I've been really into the way that, yeah, people have
Speaker 3: picked up the ball and run with it and been like, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe the Federation isn't perfect, and like, but what is
Speaker 3: perfect is I have another podcast called Live Like the
Speaker 3: World Is Dying, which comes out every Friday, and I'm
Speaker 3: one of three hosts and we talk about how to
Speaker 3: navigate living in bad times. And also, Sophie, what do
Speaker 3: you got?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Cooler Zone Media on Apple Android version coming soon,
Speaker 1: look out for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, in the near future, check out Margaret's
Speaker 3: baking cookbook, Live Like the World Is Pieing. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: That's all I got.
Speaker 2: Was a Margaret cookbook. It would literally just be how
Speaker 2: to make hard tech. Everyone. This is my final plug. Everyone,
Speaker 2: make hard tech. If you eat it, you'll break your teeth,
Speaker 2: but it lasts forever if you keep it away from moisture,
Speaker 2: light and heat. So hard tech it's the way you
Speaker 2: turn your flour into non dour times. Bye.
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