1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Do Cool Stuff. Your podcast, 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: it's yours, You belongs to you because it's part of 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: the commons. You see what I did there. If you 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: didn't listen to part one, you have no idea what 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: I'm talking about. But you might know my guest, Robert Evans, 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: that's right in the bastards. 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 3: Yes, uh, and I legally own all podcasts. Actually, I 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: came up with the idea. Before me, no one had 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 3: ever had the idea to steal the human voice and 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 3: imprison it in an audio file. You know I invented that. 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, the first wax cylinder Robert Evans special. 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, it's audio Drunken Try to Pizza Hut. 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: Our producer is Sophie. 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: Robert says is a lie. Everything Margaret says is the truth. 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 3: Mm hmmm. 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: Oh, you know, market guards getting at that. 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: If podcasting, ever doesn't work out, you and I could 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: get get a gig doing that guarding some rich guys. Dungeon. 20 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: I look good in the suit of full plate armor 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: of a Halbert just saying now they have the like 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: every now and then the Internet figures out that some 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: Victorian rich people had had like hermits that they hired 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 2: to like little in the property. The new one should 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 2: be the the ominous Guards. 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 3: The harminous Guards, one of whom tells only lies and 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 3: the other speaks the truth. 28 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 2: And honestly guarding our legal liability by cutting out when 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: we say things we shouldn't. Is our audio engineer, Daniel Hi, Daniel. 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Dannel, Robert fucking say it? 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: Hi, Daniel, Okay good? 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: And our theme musical was written for us by n women. 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: And this is part two in a two parter about 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: the Luddites. And I wonder if there's people who actually 35 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: only listen a part two of mine because they know 36 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: the first part is contact. But you're gonna miss so 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: much and you won't understand why it's cool if you 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: don't go back and listen to part one. There's poetry 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: and fire. So the Ladites. I mentioned that there was 40 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: a war going on in Europe, the Napoleonic Wars, and 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: this was fucking everything up as war tends to do. 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: It was fucking up industry and the economy and food 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: and all of that shit. It didn't help that you 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: also get like four years of bad harvest in a 45 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: row and there's a fucking comet in the sky and 46 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: everyone you know is dying in Europe fighting a Napoleon, 47 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: and trade embargoes are cutting off entire markets for textile exports, 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: which is ten percent of what the British people do 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: for work. Food prices are rising dramatically. People are living 50 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 2: literally starving in a lot of these working class towns, 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: and all of these fucking factories are suddenly popping up everywhere, 52 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: and trade unionism is out, And we do and don't 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: know a lot about the Luddites. There are endless well 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: researched books written about them, and there are plenty of 55 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: primary sources because they weren't afraid to write. But they 56 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: were also a secret society and they took it their 57 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: vow of secrecy really seriously. A lot of what we 58 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: know only came out decades later as old Luddites approached 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: the end of their lives, and it's like the eighteen 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: sixties and they're like, I fine, I guess I could 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: fucking talk about that shit. You know, so not the 62 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: best way to get super accurate information. They are also 63 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: such mythic figures that everyone tries to write a story 64 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: onto them. I'm honestly doing it too. I'm trying not 65 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: to write, but it's impossible. But we do know a 66 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: lot of their actions. The Ludites weren't all over England. 67 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: They were in what gets called the Luddite Triangle, which 68 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: should have been called the Ludic triangle if you ask me, 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: but no one did because I wasn't born and might 70 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: have a different etymological route. There was a triangle formed 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: by Yorkshire in the north west to Lancashire and down 72 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: to Leicestershire. 73 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: Leicester. I know that because I've pronounced it wrong on 74 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: the show and everyone in England is like, how did 75 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: you not guess that? It's pronounced completely differently from how 76 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: it's spelled. 77 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: But it's Leicester. 78 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: You have wester. 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: Leicester because they're the different The bigger areas have the 80 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: Shire at the end, and then the towns look like 81 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: there's like nottingham and then it's in Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire. Get 82 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: your shit together, England, come on, I know, I know. 83 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: Well they're still fighting giants, so it's hard, you know. 84 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: Did you just say get your shit together, England? 85 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: The one thing we don't want them to do. 86 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: You're right the last time that happened. 87 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: It went badly for a lot of people when Albion 88 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: Rises were all in trouble. 89 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: Keep your ship apart. 90 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of us. Actually, that's the next line of 91 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: my script. Some of us don't know a lot about England. Say, 92 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: for example, all you know about England is that King 93 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: Uther Pendragon once died while his air was missing, and 94 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: his son Arthur was discovered by pulling a sword out 95 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: of a stone. And the same thing is about to 96 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: happen now, because get it, there's a I'm trying to 97 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: make a reference to things that are happening in the 98 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: modern world and in the news. 99 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: Sophia, are you talking about the fact that nobody's seen 100 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: Printess Kate Middleton in many months and the photoshop fail 101 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,559 Speaker 1: and that the royal family is not explaining why? 102 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 2: Yes, which I knew about because of you. 103 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: You're welcome, Thank you. 104 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: Whereas if you want to know about kings who either 105 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: never existed or have been dead for five hundred years, 106 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 2: I'm your girl. But things that actually impact our lives 107 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: now so versed with. 108 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: This does not impact our lives. 109 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: But that's good. 110 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: Kate Middleton may not be a live which she's not. 111 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: Good unless By the time you're hearing this, she has 112 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: returned with Excalibur and has Warwiz gone to the Isle 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 2: of Avalon and talked to the ladies there to get 114 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: a sword from the lady in the lake. 115 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: Or if you follow conspiracy theories with. 116 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: A brand new face, ooh, I hope there's still a sword. 117 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: Me too, should always be a sword. 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 119 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 2: The other thing that you might know about England is 120 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: that there was a fox named Robin Hood who hung 121 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: out in a forest called Sherwood, robbing people alongside his buddy, 122 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: who was a bear named Little John. For those of 123 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 2: us who don't know anything beyond that, the ludic triangle 124 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: including not in Him and nottingham Shire and therefore Sherwood Forest. 125 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: In fact, our story starts in Noddingham. Okay it started. 126 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to claim it started in November eighteen eleven. 127 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: Other people are like, oh, it was in March, but 128 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 2: there was like some specific characteristics that made it. Some 129 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: people did some cool shit in March. But I'm gonna 130 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: start at in October. In November, sure, because this is 131 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: when it is more self consciously. The Luodites on November fourth, 132 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: eighteen eleven, on a night lit by the comet in 133 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: Nodingham a small band of men. More women are involved 134 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: later or were written out of this earlier part because 135 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: everything keeps being like and then these men did things, 136 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: and like later in the story they're like, oh, there's 137 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: some women. 138 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: You're like, really they're all along? Yeah, who's to know? 139 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 4: You know? 140 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 141 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: But a small group of people gathered and disguised themselves. 142 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: Some of them blackened their faces with coal, others covered 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: their faces with scarves. They are armed with hammers, axes 144 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 2: and pistols. They make their way to a weaver studio, 145 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: not quite a factory, but a place where machines for 146 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: knitting hoseery are being worked. And they go in and 147 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: they only smash up not all the frames, but the 148 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: wide frames. These are the frames that make cheap, inferior 149 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: product at like greater speeds. A week at the first 150 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: November raid, they went at it again. This time the 151 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: owner was ready. One ludite died and he shouted out, proceeed, 152 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: my brave fellows, I die with a willing heart. This 153 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: might be one of those things where we have it 154 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: fifty years later, but who knows. I'll give it to him. 155 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: He became their first martyr, and his body was displayed 156 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: for all to see, for everyone to get mad at 157 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: the murder. It wasn't like I put his head on 158 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: a pike so everyone doesn't want to fight. 159 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: They did, our boy. 160 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly in the Marge Simpson voice. 161 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 162 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: The lud eight smashed their way into the building. The 163 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: defenders fled, and the Luddites went and smashed everything up. 164 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: I suspect that after they had just seen their friends shot, 165 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: they probably were a little less particular in what they 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: chose to sabotage. That same night, other Luddites attacked another 167 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 2: shop and smashed up frames and revenge for that shop, 168 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: hiring what are called colts, which were young men who 169 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: hadn't been apprenticed, basically like old timey scabbing or strike breaking. 170 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: A few days later, a cart full of looms was 171 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: bandited by men who disguise their faces along the road, 172 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 2: and then they smashed up the looms. That same day, 173 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: a thousand people poured into the town of Sutton, armed 174 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: to the teeth and smashed up all the machines in town. 175 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: The militia came in. There's like no cops basically at 176 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: this time. It's soldiers and militia that are doing all 177 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: the law enforcement at scale. They came in and arrested 178 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: about twelve people the next day, and this is actually 179 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: one of the bigger arrests in the movement. But it 180 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: didn't stop or slow down the movement any appreciable way. 181 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: It's at this point, it's November nineteen eleven that they 182 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: started sending letters out communicate as if you will. All 183 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: of them invoked Edward Lud or ned Lud. Sometimes it 184 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: was King Lud, sometimes it was General Lud, sometimes it 185 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: was Captain and Chief ned Lud. And these letters are threats. 186 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: The letters are stop treating workers as disposable, or will 187 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: destroy your property or maybe just kill you. It was 188 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: quite literally terrorism. Yeah, they had no structural power over 189 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: their bosses or the owning class, and they had no 190 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: other means of recourse, but they had numbers, organization, secrecy, 191 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: and the ability to instill fear. So that's what they did. 192 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: They picked a leader, a fictitious one, and the first 193 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: written version of that ned Lud kid I talked about 194 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: last time comes from eighteen eleven, which was like thirty 195 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: years after it supposedly it happened, So we don't know 196 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: if this is actually the origin. One historian Kirkpatrick's Sale 197 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 2: makes the case that it could be derived from local 198 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: slang that sent all of a lud meant to smash 199 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: something into a heap, or that it could derive from 200 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: an actual king from eighteen twenty five named King Lud 201 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: or you'll be shocked to know this as my favorite. 202 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: It could also be connected to a King Lund of 203 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: the first century BC, who is connected to the Celtic 204 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: god Lud. That oh, and King Lund might be where 205 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: the name London comes from. It might come from Lundstown, 206 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: but other people make the etymology is out people. 207 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're getting shit that old, it's usually like 208 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: this is one of our better guesses. 209 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it used to be the best I can tell. 210 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: It used to be a little bit more like, oh, yeah, 211 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: it's Lundstown totally, it's from King Lund. And then like 212 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: now people are a little bit it's like, oh, it's 213 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: from the Proto Indo European word for like a low 214 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: lying area or whatever. I don't know, but I like 215 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: it when the Ludites get their name from the Celtic 216 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: god lude that obviously is my favorite. All over they 217 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: are you could say soliciting financial support for their movement. 218 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: Other people could say they're extorting it. I think both 219 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: would be perfectly accurate representations. They would leave notes around 220 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: that said things like, gentlemen, all he had Lud's compliments 221 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: and hopes you will give a trifle towards supporting his army, 222 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: as he well understands the art of breaking obnoxious frames. 223 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 2: If you comply with this it will be well. If not, 224 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: I shall call upon you myself. 225 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: I love that again, very classy. 226 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 227 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 228 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: And meanwhile they're starting to robin Hood shit too. They 229 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 2: are raiding wealthy farms for food and money, and they 230 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: were They decided that they were better than robin Hood. 231 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 2: Soon enough, an unknown author coined a famous rhyme about them. 232 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 2: Chance know more your old rhymes about bold robin Hood 233 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: his feats. I but little admire, I will sing the 234 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: achievements of General Leude, now the hero of Nottinghamshire. Sometimes 235 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 2: they worked alone, sometimes they worked in huge formations. And 236 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: there's one problem with running around doing terrorism? 237 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: Oh is there really? Now? This is something new. I've 238 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: never heard of any problems with terrorism, magpie. 239 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it turns out that Britain is a particularly 240 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: law and order focused country only at the time. 241 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: Interesting at I may have to change some of my 242 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: vacation plans. 243 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good idea. There are about two hundred 244 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: capital offenses on the books in eighteen eleven, including like 245 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: stealing cheap boots or writing threatening letters, also being a 246 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 2: guy who has sex with another guy capital crime. At 247 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 2: the time. Ten percent of all criminals who were sentenced 248 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 2: in England in eighteen ten were sentenced to death. 249 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. 250 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: Like, Texas, get your shit together, you got to catch up. 251 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 252 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: The rest of Europe was like the rest of Europe 253 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: wasn't really I mean, they had the death penalty, but 254 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: they were like looking over at England being like, y'all right, 255 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 2: fucking the fuck is happening here? 256 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 257 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: So England responded to the Ladites by basically being like 258 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: fuck this, fuck them, fuck are on peasants. Let's just 259 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: kill the lot of them. They pulled thousands of troops 260 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 2: out of the Napoleonic Wars to put down the revolt, 261 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: and this is the largest force used to put down 262 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: a disturbance in English history up to that point. Although 263 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: I've read that in multiple places, I would argue the 264 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: English Civil War was like probably bigger and as many 265 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: disturbance but whatever, I guess since the Civil War like won, 266 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: it's like different, I don't know whatever. Yeah, Nottingham was 267 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: under siege by troops. Anyone who turned informant would be 268 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: pardoned and massive rewards were offered for information. Supposed ring 269 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: leaders were rounded up and a dozen people were arrested, 270 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: but no one turned informant. None of the arrested turned snitch. 271 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: Almost everyone was released for lack of evidence, and none 272 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: of it stopped the raids because they hadn't actually caught. 273 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: It's the thing that we keep running over time and 274 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: time again. The hierarchical organization is like, Haha, we have 275 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: cut off the head of the snake, and then they're like, 276 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,119 Speaker 2: oh shit, it's a jellyfish. 277 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, no one's in charge, we're all just pissed. 278 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, a few people did come forward 279 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: to claim the reward for information. All of them were 280 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: scamming the government. None of their lives held up in 281 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: any court case. They just showed up with random ass 282 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: information based which is a sketchy tactic that could get 283 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: people hanged, but it worked, so fuck it. The government 284 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: at the time wrote basically being like, oh, they must 285 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: have an absolute hierarchy in order to have this much organization. 286 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: Historians are pretty sure that they had the opposite thing 287 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: working in their advantage. In some ways, they are quite formal. 288 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: They're drilling out on the moors at night, and they 289 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 2: are sending representatives back and forth to coordinate between different 290 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 2: groups sometimes and soon enough they'll be taking oaths of 291 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: secrecy into the society. It was very decentralized, and there's 292 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: no evidence of any kind of any kind of steering committee. 293 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: Some owners started to give in to the Luddites and 294 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: started promising to stop wage cuts and stop churning out 295 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: mediocre hosiery. And this time period sometimes gets called collective 296 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 2: bargaining by rioty. 297 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: Now, now that sounds like they're onto something here, I 298 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: can get on board. 299 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: It worked and didn't you know. It's like one of 300 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: those things where it's like everything does or doesn't work. 301 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: You know, people are like, oh, this one thing didn't 302 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: work that one time, and you're like, yeah, you know, 303 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: what doesn't work most of the time most things. Yeah, 304 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: but the New Year eighteen twelve donned. Nottingham is under 305 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: martial law, and this doesn't stop the antics. A man 306 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: in a goat skin mask with a beard down to 307 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: his waist like waylays a cart full of frames in 308 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: broad daylight and gets away with it and no one 309 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: can track him down. 310 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 3: The magic of goats, which. 311 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: Is impressed because I mean, yeah, like the godpan has 312 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: now robbed you. But how do you disc the man 313 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 2: had a beard down to his waist? 314 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: That was a lot I've been. I've been some places 315 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: in the world where it's like, well, that has not 316 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 3: narrowed it down at all. Okay, We're in this village 317 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 3: in like rural Iraq. There's a lot of men with 318 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: beards down to their waists. 319 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough, And I want to know what 320 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: the goat's skin mask was. I want to know more 321 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: about that. Did it look like a goat or was 322 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: it just a bandana? Or was it? Who knows? On 323 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 2: Valentine's Day eighteen twelve, the government, as a love letter 324 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: to the common people, passed a new law death penalty 325 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: for anyone who's caught breaking a frame. Okay, during the 326 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 2: debates in the House of Lords, a young new baron 327 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: in the House of Lords went up and gave a speech, 328 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 2: and it is his first speech before the House and 329 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: it is a defense of the Luddites. He is the 330 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 2: lone voice speaking out in defense of the Ludites. And 331 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: his name is Lord Byron, the first vanik Go. 332 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: Yes, he is. 333 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: More famous as a romantic poet than being the first vampire, 334 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: and for being friends with the Shelleys and the father 335 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: of Ada Lovelace, who is probably the first computer programmer. 336 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: But I'm gonna tell you about how he's the first vampire. 337 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: Have you heard this story? Yeah, bits of it? Yes, Okay, 338 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: we I'm gonna tell it to you again. Anyway. There's 339 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 2: this famous ghost story competition that happens in Switzerland where 340 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: Percy Shelley, Mary Shelley, and Lord Byron are the only 341 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: three people there that person not true and they have 342 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: a ghost story competition, And this is where Frankenstein comes from, right, 343 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: And Percy Shelley and Lord Byron wrote some forgettable stuff. 344 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: What Lord Byron told was like not technically a vampire story, 345 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: but not not a vampire story, like could have been 346 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 2: a vampire story, but there was another person there. There's 347 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: probably a bunch more people there. There's probably servants there 348 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: all over the place, but there's this like hanger on, 349 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: who is it in the employee of Lord Byron, John Polardori, 350 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 2: and the two men. The two men might have been fucking. 351 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: Lord Byron was absolutely bisexual, which is actually part of 352 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: why he left England is that that was a capital crime. 353 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 2: Whether just as friend or employer or lover. Lord Byron 354 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 2: was a shit to John Polodori. He's like constantly like 355 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: making fun of him and shit, And it's basically like, Ah, 356 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: this drag of a guy, I gotta keep around me. 357 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: It's like the pickup artists always say, negging is the 358 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 3: best way to hit on someone. 359 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: I know, Lord Byron is the expert at this. 360 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: It works great on him. 361 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. But the other thing is that every single historian 362 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 2: is like John Polardari sucked and was annoying as hell. 363 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 2: But I'm like, was he or was he in an 364 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: abusive relationship with Lord Byron? I don't know whatever happened. 365 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 2: John wrote a story called The Vampire, and this is 366 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 2: this is the creation of the vampire as a romantic 367 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: character in Western literature prior to this. The vampire is 368 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: an Eastern European folklore creature that is like not incredibly 369 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: distinct from a zombie or a ghost or something, you know, 370 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: it's like someone has come back from the dead, but 371 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: it's not an aristocratic romantic character. So Lord Ruthven the 372 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: vampire in the story The Vampire is absolutely a parody 373 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 2: of Lord Byron, and it is this heartbreaking story about 374 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 2: kind of being attached to and traveling with this guy 375 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: who's just seducing women everywhere and sucks and to make 376 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: things worse. So Lord Byron is the first vampire, and 377 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: John Polodaria is like, Oh, I wish I could like 378 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 2: have my own career, but I'm attached to this rich 379 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: man or whatever. Right, A magazine found his story and 380 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: published it under the name Lord Byron, and so he 381 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 2: just like can't exist in his own way. 382 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. We talked about this during our Dracula episodes. Oh 383 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 3: shit o yeah, but without this much detail, I didn't 384 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: really get into anything about like their relationship, yeah, which 385 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: is such a fucked up thing to have happened. 386 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then like a couple of years after this, 387 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: John Pulladari probably kills himself at a pretty young age. 388 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 2: It's like he died of accidental poisoning. But most people 389 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 2: are like, yeah, he killed himself. That is like more 390 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: the gay love affair thing is like conjecture, right, But 391 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: it's funny to me to realize that the modern vampire 392 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: might exist because of a salty gay love affair. Yeah, 393 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: So what I'm telling you is that the ludd It's 394 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 2: primary supporter and government. Actually, before that, I should do 395 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: an ad. 396 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: Our primary supporter is. 397 00:21:47,840 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: Not is all of these ads these guys. Yeah, and 398 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: we're back. The Lunnight's primary supporter and government was the 399 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,239 Speaker 2: first vampire. And his speech went hard. I don't know. 400 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: We might have been a terrible person. He might have 401 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: been a perfectly fine person. And John sucked. I don't know, 402 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 2: but he was a good writer. He wrote or said, 403 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 2: is there not blood enough upon your penal code? That 404 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 2: more must be poured forth to ascend to heaven and 405 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: testify against you? How will you carry the bill into effect? 406 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: Can you commit a whole country to their own prisons? 407 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 2: Will you erect a gibbet in every field and hang 408 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: men up like scarecrows? And the answers like yes that, 409 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: They're like, yeah. 410 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 3: Yes, that's exactly what I'll do. 411 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're England. He stood alone in the House of 412 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: Lords against the law, and it soon passed, and frankly 413 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 2: he stood alone against one of the greatest blows against 414 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: the world ever passed by law, because it was one 415 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 2: of the landmark laws in the Industrial Revolution, protecting the 416 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution from anyone who is discontented about the way 417 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: that revolution was going, the consequences of which have been 418 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: a disaster for the human race. The law was the 419 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: beginning of the end of the Luddites, but it didn't 420 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 2: stop them like the beginning of the end. It actually 421 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: was the beginning of them going like twice as hard. Honestly, 422 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: it hardened them. Many of them had thought the government 423 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 2: was there to protect them, like we were talking about earlier, 424 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: though the crowns on our side, even if the business 425 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 2: people aren't. This is when they're like, oh, the crown 426 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: existed pretic capital. So between martial law and occupation and 427 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 2: then soon a trial of some young Luddites happens. It 428 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: puts a damper on activities in Nodingham, so then it 429 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: just springs up in multiple other places. Immediately Lancashire and 430 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 2: Yorkshire are like, all right, let's fucking go, and they 431 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: went even harder. Raids become more and more frequent, despite 432 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 2: attempts to stop them. In Yorkshire, they're stockpiling arms that 433 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: they're like robbing from militias and from houses of rich people. 434 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: They're more violent, they're more disciplined, and they're more likely 435 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: to perceive themselves as a revolutionary force. They add a 436 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 2: solemn oath to the mix, and to join the movement 437 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: is to be twisted in because these are like wolf 438 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,239 Speaker 2: spinners and shit, right. I like that, Yeah, as if 439 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: an individual fiber is spun into yarn. 440 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. 441 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: The oath was a far more poetic and long winded 442 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: way of saying if I snitch, someone should kill me. 443 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: They've got secret signals and like hand gestures. They have 444 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 2: a call in response, and the call in response is 445 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: what are you determined? What for free liberty? And the 446 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 2: government is like, hey, this is an insurrection and they're right. 447 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 2: They call themselves the army of redressers sometimes, and they 448 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: are genuinely building towards a revolution. At least many of 449 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: them saw themselves this way. Not necessarily everyone involved, but 450 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 2: this is manster of every revolution, honestly. 451 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 452 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: They were in connection with with quote the Papists in Ireland. 453 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 2: They were building ties with Scotland and France. They're doing 454 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: what a lot of different people who are mad at 455 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: the English government do, which is like, yo, France, you 456 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: want to invade? Could you invade real quick? 457 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 3: Yeah? 458 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: And they were putting out explicit calls to end the 459 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: monarchy and usher in or republic. At the core of it, 460 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: they're mad because they're starving, right, they are barely able 461 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: to find work. They're subsisting off of oatmeal and like 462 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 2: a scarce potato here and there, and they're watching people, 463 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: especially infants, die of malnutrition. 464 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. That would that would make me unhappy. I would be. 465 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: Miffed, Yeah, a little bit, a little bit upset. 466 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 467 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 2: I might write a strongly worded letter. 468 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but I would be writing letters two or 469 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: three times a week. 470 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 2: Yeah. And these people were too. They just the strong 471 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: words were a little stronger, and they had something behind them. 472 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 3: Yeah. 473 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: And I think one thing that's hard for the modern 474 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 2: European left to understand about the Luddites is that these 475 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: workers were fighting for tradition against the industrial revolution. They 476 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: were fighting for cultural lifeways. So they weren't revolutionaries in 477 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: a certain context, right. They were fighting for the preservation 478 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 2: of an existent or a previous way of life. There 479 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: were utopian dreamers among them, but it was a utopianism 480 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: based on the foundations of their actual lifeways and culture, 481 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: and as a vibe more familiar to leftist and radicals 482 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: who come from outside the imperial core, is what I 483 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 2: would argue. 484 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: Sure. 485 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: It also is part of why the right wing tries 486 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: to claim this kind of stuff. At this point, they 487 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 2: add arson to their toolbox. On January nineteenth, eighteen twelve, 488 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 2: they burn down a mill with no one inside, and 489 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 2: soon they burn an awful lot more. And at this point, 490 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: none of them, even when they're running around with axes 491 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: and swords and shit, none of them are killing people 492 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: on purpose at this point. And I think, actually they 493 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 2: haven't killed anyone at this point. A lot of them 494 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 2: have died. One of the more notable Luodites was of 495 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 2: the more militant variety, was this man named George Meller, 496 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: who is twenty four in eighteen twelve, and he was 497 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars. And Robert, I don't 498 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 2: know if you knew about this thing that I learned 499 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: about from you years ago from one of your podcasts, 500 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 2: about how when you go train soldiers to go fight 501 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: wars overseas, they can come back and become revolutionaries. 502 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out if you make people really good 503 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 3: at fighting and then they get angry at you, you 504 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: have a problem. 505 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the Luodites, especially once you get up 506 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 2: into Yorkshire. So this veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, he 507 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 2: and presumably other veterans, gave the Luddites their military structure 508 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: and tactics. And he was a cropper. Basically, he cut 509 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: cloth for a living, which is a very physically demanding job, 510 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 2: and croppers were famously large, strong, and fighty. He had 511 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: apprenticed for seven years at this job, and not that 512 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: many people could do this job, so it paid comparatively well. 513 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 2: New shearing frames were putting them out of work very quickly, 514 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: and soon he'd be lucky to just work in some 515 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: factory somewhere if he found a job at all. 516 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: Sure, So in. 517 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: Eighteen twelve and in April eighteen twelve, George Meller and 518 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: more than one hundred of his closest friends armed themselves 519 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 2: with everything from guns to rocks and everything in between, 520 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: and they marched on a mill called the Rawfolds Mill, 521 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 2: owned by a mister Cartwright. Some of the men carried 522 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: huge sledge hammers called Enoch, like they'd be like make 523 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 2: way for Enoch when some hammering needed to happen. And 524 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: they were called this because the maker of the hammers 525 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: which they used for work was a guy named Enoch, 526 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: and he's like not on their side. He also makes 527 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: a bunch of the machines. It's just like his design. 528 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: But they're Ludites, so of course they're aware of and 529 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: making reference to biblical forces when they say all this shit. 530 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: Enoch is a guy who lived for three hundred and 531 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 2: sixty five years and walked into heaven alive rather than 532 00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: waiting to die. 533 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 3: Based. 534 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they storm this mill, but it's not empty. 535 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 2: Mister Cartwright and nine others with four loyal workers and 536 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 2: five soldiers from the local militia, they're inside and they've 537 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 2: like defended there. They've like built everything to have little 538 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 2: pulleys that pull up things to block things and reinforce 539 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 2: the door and all this shit. And the defenders open 540 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: fire and they're like, bring forth Enoch, and Enoch, you know, 541 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: runs to the front and starts to batter down the door, 542 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: which is heavily reinforced. Takes a very long time for 543 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 2: them to break through. And now we get to my 544 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 2: favorite named character and the whole story with my favorite 545 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: line in the whole story. A young apprentice named John Booth, 546 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: forever known to history as not the other John Booth. 547 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: This is the good John Booth. He did not shoot 548 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln. Instead he himself. 549 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 3: But when people don't shoot Abraham Lincoln, one of my 550 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: favorite things for people to do is not shoot Abraham Lincoln. 551 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: I know almost everyone in the world has succeeded at that. 552 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, the vast majority of people eating h on musk, 553 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: as far as I know, has not shot Abrahamley. Now 554 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: would he have? Maybe? 555 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 2: Does he probably have a secret machine to build a 556 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: time machine to go back and shoot Abraham Lincoln sooner 557 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: so that he can have aparthe'd last longer in South Africa? 558 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: Who can I can't legally say, I can't prove it yet, 559 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: But the good John Booth he takes a musket ball 560 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: to the leg and he goes down, and soon enough 561 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: a blacksmith is shot two and the alarm bell is ringing, 562 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: and the literal cavalry is on its way, and so 563 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: the Luddites retreat and they're like there's like tearful goodbyes 564 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: where they're like I don't think we can take you 565 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: with us, but remember your oath. Okay, bud okay, good luck, 566 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 2: my friend, and they like leave tearfully. They leave two wounded, 567 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: dying comrades. There's no time to drag them away. Both 568 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: men were interrogated, neither gave anything up, and it might 569 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: be apocryphal, but it's my favorite last words in history. 570 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: The interrogator, possibly the local priest who is a super 571 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: anti Luddite, guys like, all right, tell us what you know, 572 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: give us some names. John Booth looks up and says, 573 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: can you keep a secret, and the priest is like, 574 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: of course. John Booth says so can I. 575 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: God, that's cool. 576 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, And then stuff like that too, where it's like 577 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 5: they could have stopped anyone from learning about his last words, 578 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 5: but it was just too cool. 579 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 3: To not even as the guys you killed them, you're like, well, 580 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 3: but we gotta tell people. That was just too badass, 581 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 3: I know, I know. Or like they were like, can 582 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 3: you believe the rickalcitrins of these stupid you know whatever? 583 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 2: But yeah, no exactly, And John Booth dies on the 584 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: operating table as they're amputating his leg. This is not 585 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 2: a good time to get shot in the leg. 586 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 3: Not like today. Today's really a golden age for getting 587 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: shot in the leg. 588 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you of any year that has happened. Yeah, 589 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 2: if I were to pick a year to get shot 590 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 2: in the leg, if he's probably about fifteen years ago 591 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: or something. 592 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: If you've become unstuck in time like Billy Pilgrim and 593 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 3: you're planning on getting shot in the leg at some 594 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 3: point now is definitely the destination. 595 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. One of the soldiers inside the mill refused 596 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: to shoot on the crowd when he's ordered to. He 597 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: puts down his gun and says he can't shoot upon 598 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: his brothers, and he is court martialed. And then because 599 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: of all of English history is one tiny town, and 600 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to tie in, Yeah, three more literary figures. 601 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 3: There have only been thirty people in English history. 602 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, at least that wrote things that got remembered. There's 603 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: another reverend in the town, and this one's not anti Luddite. 604 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 2: He's an Irish Anglican guy. I don't think he's like 605 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 2: pro them specifically, but he's like neutral or whatever. And 606 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: he sees people sneaking into the church's graveyard at night 607 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: to secretly bury two Luttites who'd been killed in the raids, 608 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: whose names are lost to history, and he didn't say 609 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: anything to anyone about it, because no one should be 610 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 2: punished for performing a Christian burial. That guy's name was 611 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 2: Reverend Patrick Bronte, only famous to history because his three 612 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: daughters are the fucking Bronte sisters who wrote like everything, 613 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 2: the guy Cartwright, the mill owner, is hated by Luddites. 614 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: Every door after this happens, after these people are killed, 615 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: has vengeance for the blood of the innocent chalked on it. 616 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: One morning after the death of good John Booth and 617 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: the others based And it's this interesting thing where I 618 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: think the people, the Luddites genuinely believe that they have 619 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: been wronged for being shot while they're trying to destroy 620 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 2: things with axes and hammers, you know, yeah, yeah, which 621 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: sounds almost silly now, but like in retrospect you're like, well, 622 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: probably you shouldn't shoot people for destroying property. 623 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 3: That's yeah. 624 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: The Ludites for the first time, they are planning specific 625 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: and actual violence. When Cartwright was leaving town, he'd been 626 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: in town testifying at the court martial of the soldier 627 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 2: he wasn't like, oh, I understand my boy. He was like, 628 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 2: fuck you. You didn't fucking shoot people. Some folks from the 629 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: bushes tried to shoot him but missed, and no one 630 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: knows for sure whether that was like trying to kill 631 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: him or it was like warning shots to be like 632 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: get the fuck out of here, but they were probably 633 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 2: trying to kill him. Around this time, they develop a 634 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 2: new tactic, food riots. Food riots start breaking out everywhere. 635 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: A lot of historians discount them from the story of 636 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 2: the Luddites, and I think that's because of misogyny, because 637 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: it's mostly men doing the raids at night, and it 638 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 2: is mostly women leading and participating in the food riots 639 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 2: and being hanged for it. At least two of these 640 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 2: women called themselves Lady lud while leading these fucking food riots, 641 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: and people are like, ah, oh, does this really count? 642 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 2: I don't know. The prices of basic foods were skyrocketing. 643 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 2: One woman named Hannah Smith, she was fifty four. She 644 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: was hanged for handing out potatoes to a crowd from 645 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: a cart she commandeered. They called it highway robbery in 646 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 2: order to hang her, and food riots turned into rob 647 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: the militias and steal their guns riots, and soon the 648 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 2: overall tactic of the Luddites was to start with a 649 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: food riot and then move into attacks on factories and mansions. 650 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 2: Two men in dresses led a riotous crowd to a 651 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: factory owner's mansion and then everyone broke out the windows 652 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 2: of the place with rocks. And this is the only 653 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 2: known for certain time that crossdressers were involved, but it 654 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: is the symbol of the movement for generations to come, 655 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 2: is to have like kind of like a big strong 656 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: man with a sledgehammer wearing a dress. And what's interesting 657 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: about it is that the historians who like the Luddites 658 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: tend to downplay the cross dressing, whereas those who like 659 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: want to accuse it of being like silly and fight 660 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 2: against modernity and annoying play up the cross dressing. But 661 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: even the downplayers are like, well, there might have been 662 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,240 Speaker 2: more articles of women's clothing like here and there among 663 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 2: the rest of the raids. I don't know, you know, 664 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 2: this was a common method of disguise and more like 665 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 2: carnival that was part of rebellions in England and Ireland 666 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 2: at this point. It comes from this sort of world 667 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: turned upside down thing that happens at festivals, which is 668 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: the like someone's king for a day, or you know, 669 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 2: the lay people are the priests and the priests are 670 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: the lay people, this kind of thing, and often the 671 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: Luddites will claim themselves as General Luod's wives, and I 672 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 2: of course you will be shocked to know. I think 673 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 2: is really cool that they were all a bunch of 674 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 2: weird cross dressers. 675 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 3: Yes, that is like, that's also just a thing the 676 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 3: English do a lot. I mean, like we all know 677 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 3: our Monty Python. There's like a long and complicated history 678 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: of cross dressing, specifically in the UK. Yep. 679 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 2: But what there isn't a complicated history of in the 680 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 2: UK is advertisement. Because if you're listening to this in 681 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 2: the UK, all of the sponsors are good and moral. 682 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 3: We're entirely sponsored by the British Royal Family, that's right. Yeah, 683 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 3: so check that out. You know, you know, the British 684 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 3: Royal Family is such a good deal that you're about 685 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 3: to get like two or three monarchs in the space 686 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 3: of just a couple of years, so really, you know, 687 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 3: constantly working on that value. Yeah, and remember to use 688 00:37:40,880 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 3: the promo code sausage fingers. Here are the ads and 689 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 3: we're back. 690 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 2: Okay. So another time, five Loodites are killed and eighteen 691 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 2: injured when thousands of women and men storm a factory 692 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 2: and were met with rifle fire. So you're moving towards 693 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: these daytime raids, these like larger mass actions. And it's 694 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 2: around this point when even the misogynists have to admit 695 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 2: women were heavily involved in the movement. Yeah, the crowds 696 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 2: get larger and larger, the attacks get more brazen, and 697 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: the persecution becomes more deadly. And these crowds would march 698 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 2: with a straw dummy held aloft which represented ned Lud 699 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 2: and they flew a fucking red flag, the flag of revolt, 700 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 2: which is way older than state socialism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 701 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: And as many as thirty people were killed one day 702 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 2: in an attack on one owner's mansion. They were met 703 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 2: with sword and rifle from cavalry. And they're still at 704 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 2: this point rarely shooting back. Their goal isn't violence, not directly, 705 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: but intimidation and destruction. It's around this point that spies 706 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 2: are starting to success get into the movement. At least 707 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 2: nine of them, and around one or two of the 708 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 2: arrestees were starting to talk, but really very very few. 709 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 2: In the end, the government, not particularly fond of being overthrown, 710 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 2: just put thousands of soldiers into these tiny areas, like 711 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 2: fourteen thousand soldiers. I've read somewhere that one in seventy 712 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 2: people in the entire triangle was a soldier. 713 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 3: Gny Christmas. 714 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 2: The rewards kept getting raised higher and higher. At some 715 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 2: point they're offering two thousand pounds, which is literally a 716 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 2: lifetime's wages, is forty years of wages at the like 717 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 2: decent previous artisan rate. No one takes it. The occupying 718 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 2: force was rather rude, to say the least. They weren't 719 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 2: there weren't enough barracks, and they were all housed in 720 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 2: like local pubs and just kind of like took over 721 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 2: these towns. And then at the end of April they 722 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 2: entered their final phase where most movements that don't succeed go, 723 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: when most movements that don't become widespread popular were across 724 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 2: the entire. 725 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,919 Speaker 3: Ta, don't become a government, right. 726 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, some of them turned to reform because the government 727 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 2: started promising like, oh well, like look into some stuff, 728 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 2: and some of them, because of the repression, turned to 729 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 2: increasingly isolated acts of armed insurrection violence appropriation and assassination 730 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 2: in the name of outright revolution. One owner had the 731 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 2: picked the wrong name for his family. His name was Horsefall, 732 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 2: and he said he wanted to ride his horse up 733 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 2: to the saddle and Luddite blood. He really didn't like 734 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 2: the Luodites very much, and he was so famous for 735 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: saying this shit that little kids, like local kids in 736 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 2: the area would like run in front of his horse 737 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 2: and be like, I'm general, lud, what are you gonna do? 738 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,879 Speaker 3: You know, Oh boy, brave kids, I know. 739 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 2: Like they're not quite old enough for the factory job. 740 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 2: Just kidding their old enough for the factory jobs. Mel Or, 741 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 2: that veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, he has it out 742 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 2: for this particular owner, Horsefall. He once says that he 743 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 2: saw an infant die at its mother's breast while Meller 744 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 2: like rode by uncarrying he like holds in his version 745 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 2: of the story, I think it's like he like holds 746 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 2: the dead baby up to Mellow, who's like, I don't 747 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: even give a shit fuck you. You know, I don't 748 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 2: really believe that story is too pat but it might 749 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 2: have happened. I don't know. He doesn't like Horsefall, so 750 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 2: him and three of his buds. Waylaid horsefall and shot 751 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 2: him to death. And he fell off his horse. And 752 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 2: what he said as he fell was not poetic, but 753 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 2: it was definitely accurate. He shouted murder. 754 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 3: Well kay. Yeah. 755 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 2: He didn't die right away. He died thirty six hours later. 756 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 2: His last words were, these are awful times, doctor. And 757 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: that's like kind of I'm like, yeah, I get some 758 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: empathy there. 759 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 3: You know, yeah. Yeah. 760 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 2: And the revolutionists are robbing mansions for guns for a 761 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 2: revolution that doesn't happen. The reformists are failing to get 762 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,800 Speaker 2: basic water down reforms pushing through the house pushed to 763 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 2: the House of Lords, like the House of Commons, like 764 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: take their demands and water them down extensively and then 765 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 2: put them to the House of lords, who are like, 766 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: we don't give a shit. Where the House of Lords. 767 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: Only Lord Byron is on their side in the House 768 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 2: of Lords, and it just loses steam in the face 769 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 2: of military occupation and repression. Also, the Comet's gone. It's 770 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 2: largely seen as a movement that failed, and that is 771 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 2: mostly true. It did not win lasting reforms. It did 772 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 2: not stop the industrial revolution. To be fair, no one 773 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 2: else did either, But strategically, it was actually kind of 774 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 2: interestingly a stalemate. The government wanted to kill a lot 775 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 2: of them, wanted to convict and kill or deport just 776 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 2: so many people. They had a massive occupation of the area. 777 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 2: They only managed to get a couple dozen convictions in 778 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 2: the end with this army, and they managed to send 779 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 2: some lawdates to Australia, and they hanged others. But for 780 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 2: all that spies and the astronomically high bounties, the Crown 781 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 2: couldn't get many arrests, and those they arrested, they couldn't 782 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 2: get too many convictions. Because this is the thing that 783 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 2: the Leddites were best at. They shut the fuck up. Yeah, 784 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 2: that is the whole secret. Many many more of them 785 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,760 Speaker 2: would have died. You had thousands and thousands of people 786 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 2: committing capital offenses. No one talked, so not everyone walked, 787 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 2: but most people did. Thousands of lives saved. They kept 788 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 2: their mouths shut for decades after. It wasn't until the 789 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 2: end of the nineteenth century that people started talking about 790 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 2: the wild shit they'd done in their youth. It was 791 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 2: also successful that it cemented the Ludite name into history, though, 792 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 2: of course, the powers of culture and control have done 793 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 2: an amazing job of turning it into a byword for 794 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,479 Speaker 2: doesn't understand how to program a VCR, which shows how 795 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 2: old I am, but what I could mean part of 796 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 2: a seriously amazing armed insurrection that like it is seventy 797 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 2: two degrees in early March in the mountains while I 798 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 2: am recording this. If the luddit had succeeded, it might not. 799 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 3: Be yeah, and we could still have clothing. 800 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 2: I know, because they weren't trying to get rid of 801 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 2: the idea of automating anything. 802 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. If they had been. 803 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 2: Like, hey, y'all, we're going to automate a lot of 804 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 2: your jobs. Here is a living wage, or here is 805 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 2: like other ways to express your artistic craft, or like 806 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 2: here's some you know, or like you're the one who 807 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 2: can operate this machine, don't worry, here's a pension. Like 808 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,399 Speaker 2: could have been fine. But I will end with one 809 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 2: more quote from Queen May. That poem by Percy Shelley, 810 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 2: just a bit of the utopian imagining, because this is 811 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 2: after the lut eight Rebellion. This poem comes out and 812 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 2: it is the bible of the working class for multiple generations. 813 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,400 Speaker 2: A brighter morn awaits the human day when every transfer 814 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 2: of Earth's natural gifts shall be a commerce of good 815 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 2: words and works, When poverty and wealth, the thirst of fame, 816 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,839 Speaker 2: the fear of infamy, disease and woe, war with its 817 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 2: million horrors and fierce hell shall live but in the 818 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 2: memory of time. Wow, them's the ludites. 819 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, maybe take some lessons out of those, folks. 820 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 3: Is we're going to need to do something about this? 821 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 3: Or seventy two degrees in march in the mountains? 822 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And some of the other lessons you 823 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 2: can take out of it are like, well, sometimes things 824 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 2: work and sometimes things don't. And just because something's the 825 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 2: more militant doesn't make it right, and sometimes because things 826 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 2: the more reformist, it doesn't make it right. And it 827 00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 2: takes all of us trying different things, you know. Yeah, 828 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 2: And what it also takes is pivot to plugs. 829 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 830 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. Read my book After the Revolution, which is 831 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 3: about the aftermath of a successful revolution, and shit's still 832 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 3: fucked up as it always is, but now there's a 833 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 3: big rolling city, so that's pretty cool. 834 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 2: That is what I like about the book After the Revolution. 835 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 2: People haven't read it, they should go out and read it. 836 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,240 Speaker 2: It's like, oh, we had a revolution and it didn't 837 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 2: fix everything, and yeah, some things are more interesting and 838 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 2: some things are worse, and some things are better and 839 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 2: some things would have been worse anyway, And like I 840 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 2: appreciate that it's a little bit more honest. Like I 841 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 2: like this utopian imagining. This poem I'm closing with Shelley 842 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 2: being like, oh, you know, we'll be a time without 843 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 2: war and disease and pover and like no one will 844 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 2: be poor and no one to be rich. And it's 845 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 2: like cool, and I'm all about that, but it's also 846 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 2: not how it's going to go. Yeah, you know, no, 847 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 2: Like that's the one thing that's the that's the Margaret 848 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 2: Killjoy promise. 849 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,800 Speaker 3: Yeah you gotta. I mean, one of the things that 850 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,919 Speaker 3: roden Berry got right is that you don't get any 851 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 3: steps towards utopia without some disasters along the way. And 852 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 3: then one thing that people who eventually took the series 853 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,720 Speaker 3: from him got right is that maintaining Utopia is also 854 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 3: a constant battle. Yeah, things just start nice forever. Yeah, 855 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 3: I really I've been on a Star Trek kick lately too. 856 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 3: I've been really into the way that, yeah, people have 857 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 3: picked up the ball and run with it and been like, oh, 858 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 3: maybe the Federation isn't perfect, and like, but what is 859 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 3: perfect is I have another podcast called Live Like the 860 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,959 Speaker 3: World Is Dying, which comes out every Friday, and I'm 861 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,319 Speaker 3: one of three hosts and we talk about how to 862 00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 3: navigate living in bad times. And also, Sophie, what do 863 00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 3: you got? 864 00:47:59,160 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 4: Uh? 865 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 1: Subscribe to Cooler Zone Media on Apple Android version coming soon, 866 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: look out for that. 867 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, in the near future, check out Margaret's 868 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 3: baking cookbook, Live Like the World Is Pieing. Oh my god, 869 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 3: That's all I got. 870 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 2: Was a Margaret cookbook. It would literally just be how 871 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,440 Speaker 2: to make hard tech. Everyone. This is my final plug. Everyone, 872 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 2: make hard tech. If you eat it, you'll break your teeth, 873 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 2: but it lasts forever if you keep it away from moisture, 874 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 2: light and heat. So hard tech it's the way you 875 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 2: turn your flour into non dour times. Bye. 876 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 4: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 877 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,720 Speaker 4: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, 878 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 4: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out 879 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 4: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 880 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 4: your podcasts. You have been