1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you, welcome to 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And in the grand tradition of 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: the Dark Crystal Highlander to the Quickening two thousand one 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. Boy, do we have a movie episode 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: for you today? That's right. We would previously wondered if 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: we would get outside of the sixties, seventies, eighties, and 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: nineties for a movie episode, and now we have because 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: this episode takes us to nineteen fifty nine. Uh, this 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: is a very nineteen fifties kind of movie in multiple 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: ways as Uh. They will actually kind of connect with 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: our series on Psychedelics, though I'm not sure if that's 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: why we ended up doing this. So today we're gonna 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: be talking about William Castle's The Tingler. How did we 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: arrive at The Tingler? What was this? This was your idea, right, Robert? Well, yeah, 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: like basically, we just did that big series on Psychedelics 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: five episode and I was thinking, well, it's time to 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: do a movie episode again. Well, let's let's do a 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: psychedelic film. And so I was thinking, well, maybe we'll 21 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: do something like Blue Sunshine from Night, which we're both 22 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: partial to, or yes, one of the ugliest films, right 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: that that does concern like LSD. Or I thought, well, 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, maybe a more of like a modern film 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: like Beyond the Black Rainbow, which is another psychedelic film 26 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: that I really like. But then I started poking around 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: and I realized that the the earliest reference to LSD 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: and a major motion picture is none other than nineteen 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: fifty nine. Is The Tingler really the earliest? I didn't 30 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, that's what I That's what I've read 31 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: is that the references to LSD in this film mark 32 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: that the first time that LSD was referenced in a 33 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: major motion picture. I mean, it would make sense because, 34 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: as we know from our research on psychedelics, uh, there 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: was legitimate LSD based therapy or l s D assisted 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: therapy going on in the nineteen fifties. There was LSD 37 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: therapeutic research going on in the nineteen fifties. It was 38 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: it was kind of all over the place. And actually 39 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties it wasn't as controversial yet as 40 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: it would become later, right, And it was legal at 41 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: this point too. Yeah, uh yeah, and so there probably 42 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: would have been a lot of experience. In fact, I 43 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: remember reading a few accounts about people in Hollywood specifically 44 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: saying that they benefited from LST assisted therapy. They were 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: like movie stars in the nineteen fifties who had therapists 46 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills that gave him LST and had him 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: a lie on the couch and talk through their problems, 48 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: and they were like, Wow, this stuff is great. So 49 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of surprising it didn't end up in the 50 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: movies earlier. Yeah, it really is. But it's not surprising 51 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: to me anyway that it ends up in a horror 52 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: film and essentially kind of a B picture, because because 53 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: that's where you you see a lot of like the 54 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: first strikes, the first references to some sort of new idea, 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: new movement, new sometimes a new technology, or some sort 56 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: of new societal, uh concept or fear. I think we 57 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: should give you the listener a direct sense of the 58 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: flavor of the tingle. So can we do a little 59 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 1: audio sample here. I'm William Castle, and I feel obligated 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: to warn you about the next attraction you will see 61 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: at this theater. The picture is the Tingler, which I directed, 62 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: and for the first time in motion picture history, members 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: of the audience, including you, will actually play a part 64 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: in the picture. You will feel some of the physical reactions, 65 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: the shocking sensations experienced by the actors on the screen. 66 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: I guarantee that The Tingler has more shocks per minute 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: in my last film, The House on Haunted Hill. But 68 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: don't be alarmed. You can protect yourself. When you see 69 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: the picture, you will be told and remember the instruction 70 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: how you can guard yourself from attack by the Tingler. 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: And now may I show you a few scenes from 72 00:03:50,200 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: The Tingler? All right? So that was that is uh, 73 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: William Castle himself just selling you on this picture. It's 74 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: such a weird trailer because it was just part of it. 75 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: But it's just basically him in front of the camera saying, 76 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I've got a picture for you. He's got It's like 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: he's not like a film director. He's like a guy 78 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: with the Traveling Medicine Show. He's like, I must warn 79 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: you that these tonics are so potent they have been 80 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: outlawed in four counties for the amazing benefits it has. 81 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: You know, like he's just selling it and selling it 82 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: and uh, and and so William Castle, of course was 83 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: a horror director. He directed movies like The House on 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: Haunted Hill, which also has Vincent Price. I don't know, 85 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: did the cliff reveal that this movie has Bencent Price? 86 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: The Tingler features Vincent Price in the lead role. So 87 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned House on Haunted Hill, fifty nine, Tinkler and 88 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: fifty nine, follow that up with Thirteen Ghosts in nineteen sixty, 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: you know, just back to back. Uh. He would go 90 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: he would, you know, produce a number of pictures like this. 91 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: He would go on to produce Rosemary's Baby in Night 92 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: so produced not yeah, of course. So where we enter 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: the Tingler to oratory here though, is after the success 94 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: of House on Haunted Hill, Columbia Pictures set Castle up 95 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: with his own unit, and uh and this was his 96 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: first project under that unit. Uh. He this this was 97 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: mainly because you know, he had a reputation for delivering 98 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: films on time, under budget, and he was famously a 99 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: promotion king when it came to these films. Uh, and 100 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 1: was all throughout his career. Was often you know, pulling 101 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: out these different gimmicks, like not just selling you the 102 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: theater experience in the shock of the film, But but 103 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: something beyond, like some new technology that was going to 104 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: make the film, uh, you know, all the more evocative. 105 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: It was like for a time when people were bored 106 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: with regular old movies, so they would try gimmicks of course, 107 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: like three D right, three D glasses and all that. 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: But but William Castle was sort of went in another direction. Yeah, 109 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: he would beyond that. So howiseon Haunted On Haunted Hill 110 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: was filmed in Immergo, which sounds fancy. It sounds like 111 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: some sort of special filter that's used on the camera. 112 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: Does Amergo have an exclamation point after? I don't think 113 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: it did, but it was kind of implied. But basically 114 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: this boiled down to a red eyed skeleton prop would 115 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: float over the theater on wires during a key scene 116 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: in the picture. Thirteen Ghosts was filmed in illusion oh, 117 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: which meant audience This is actually a little more complicated. 118 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 1: Audience members were given red blue screens to either see 119 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: or hide the ghosts that appear in the movie. Oh 120 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: I see. So yeah, there'd be like a like a 121 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: color polarized kind of image on the screen, and so 122 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: you could hold up the screens to either see or 123 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: not see the ghost on the picture, and that's rather 124 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: clever apparently like recent Blu Ray releases of the film 125 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: like coming with a little gadget that that replicates this effect. Yeah, 126 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: that's kind of fun. Homicidal from featured a fright break 127 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: during which you you know, you could you have this 128 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: break to catch your breath and decide if you wanted 129 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: to stay and see then in the finale or leave 130 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: and get a full refund. So you know, it's one 131 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: of those you see this a lot with promotions of 132 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: these pictures, like they're so confident, uh in its the 133 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: ability to deliver that you you were offered a full refund. 134 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: And then there was also Mr Sardonicus from nine and 135 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: in this the audience got to vote with glow in 136 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the dark cards on the fate of the villain. And 137 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: this one's interesting because it was it was almost certainly 138 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: gimmicked because you had two endings. You had the mercy 139 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: ending for the villain and then the the ending where 140 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: the villain got his come up, and and there are 141 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: allegations that they never even shot the mercy endings, like 142 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: nobody was going to vote for it, so you know, 143 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: you didn't really have the choice. It was just the 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: illusion of the choice which audience is going to be like, 145 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: I don't want the villain to be punished. Yeah. Castle 146 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: claimed that he shot it, but but some disagree. And 147 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: then there were various other promotional gimmicks and claims over 148 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: the years, but The Tingler is ultimately, I think the 149 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: most famous of these because it was filmed in percepto 150 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: percepto that's so good. From what I understand. That means 151 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: more like, there were some appliances installed in seats in 152 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: the movie theater which would which would mess with members 153 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: of the audience. Yeah. Basically, Castle purchased military surplus airplane 154 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: wing de iceres, which are essentially vibration devices and motors. 155 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah uh, and put these up under some of the 156 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: chairs in theaters showing the picture, and they went off 157 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: at a key moment in the film during which the Tingler, 158 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: the monster will describe in a bit, is on the 159 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: loose in a theater in the film, and Vincent Price's 160 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: character tells the audience to scream, scream for your lives. Uh. 161 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: And then also Castle planted human screamers and key locations 162 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah uh. And so this is funny because 163 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: this has been replicated in other films like the movie 164 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: Gremlins too from what was that nineteen nine or so 165 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: or the into the eighties whenever it is. That's a 166 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: fantastic movie, by the way, one of the best of 167 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: eighties motion pictures. Um. You know, one of my favorites, 168 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: John Carpenters in the Mouth of Madness ends in a 169 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: movie theater. Oh yeah, yeah, And so I think some 170 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: of them are taking after this William Castle kind of thing, 171 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: where like there's a scene in a movie theater and 172 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: the movie kind of breaks the fourth wall to like 173 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: wink at the audience and be like, just imagine you're 174 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: in this movie theater. Yeah. I was actually lucky enough 175 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: to see the thing there for the first time a 176 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: couple of years ago at the Plaza Theater here in Atlanta, 177 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: where it was riffed live by Trace Bolieu and Frank 178 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: Conniff from Mr Sennen's Theater. Okay, they were there in 179 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: person to to riff it, and there were no d 180 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: ier is installed under the seats, but the screaming part 181 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: of the film was still a lot of fun. Like 182 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: everybody in the audience really got into it and screamed 183 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: for their lives, right. They actually encouraged the audience to 184 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: scream because they suggest that the monster from the film 185 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: has become real and is out in the theater with you. Yes, 186 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: I can imagine that was a lot of fun with 187 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: Dr Forrester and TV's Frank on Hand. Oh absolutely, all right, 188 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: So that's basically Castle in a nutshell. I don't know 189 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: how much we really have to say about Vincent Price, 190 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: because I mean, he's Vincent Brice. He was a legend, 191 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: Hollywood legend. Acted more than a hundred films, everything from 192 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: like the Tin Conn Endments in nineteen fifty six to 193 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: a string of wonderful Led Girl and po adaptations. He 194 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: was in The Fly, The Abominable Doctor fivees uh Ultiate, 195 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: later on, towards the end of his career, Edward Scissor Hands. So, 196 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean he's and then he was in He was 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: on Batman, he was on The Muppet Show. He was 198 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: a cooking enthusiast and author, a supporter of commendable social 199 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: issues and campaigns. I mean, he's one of those rare 200 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: old Hollywood stars that the more you learn about him, 201 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the more you look up 202 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: to him, the more you respected, the more you can 203 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: even relate to him the rare case where you there's 204 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: a famous person who doesn't turn out to be more 205 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: and more of a sleeves bag the more you like. Yeah. 206 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: And then there's a finally of note here there's the 207 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: screenwriter of The Tingler, which it's easy to overlook with 208 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: films like this, that yes, somebody wrote this, there was 209 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: a screenwriter, and the screenwriter someone of note because it's 210 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: it was Rob White, who lived nineteen o nine through 211 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, and he was a prolific writer. That's probably 212 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: best remembered as the author of the nineteen seventy two 213 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: novel death Watch, which has been adapted twice, once with 214 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: Andy Griffith and Sam Bottoms and a second time with 215 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: Michael Douglas and Jeremy Irvine. White had previously worked with 216 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: Castle on House on a Hunted Hill, uh, and he 217 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: was impressed, apparently by a creepy white worm prop on 218 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: the set. But he was also inspired to make the 219 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: mad science angle in the story a little more cutting 220 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: edge by bringing in LSD. So Turner. Classic Movies insider 221 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: Info shares a quote from an interview that authored Tom 222 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: Weaver had with White. Tom Weavers great by the way. 223 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: He does some really good commentaries on some of the 224 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Universal Monster. Yeah, he's the author of this particular book. 225 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: It's from his apparently Return of the b Science Fiction 226 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: and Horror Heroes. And this is White's White speaking here. Quote. 227 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: I wanted something different from the typical shot or pill 228 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: that you see in movie trips. Algis Huxley told me 229 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: about a doctor at U C. L A who was 230 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: run in an experiment on online sergic acid LSD. So 231 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: I went up there to see this man, Dr Cohen, 232 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: and he gave me some of it. He took me 233 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: into a nice little room with a cod in a radio, 234 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: and he got something out of his refrigerator and gave 235 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: me a shot. It was all legal. Then I watched 236 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: the grain in the wood writhing around and listened to 237 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: the music. It was very pleasant, although I did never 238 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: want to do it again. This is funny that he 239 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: describes it as pleasant because it is specifically deployed in 240 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: the movie as part of the like acid exploitation kind 241 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: of vibe where it like gives you nightmares and drives 242 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: you insane. Right now, Huxley, you might remember from our 243 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: psychedelic episodes. Not only wrote Brave New World. But he 244 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: wrote the highly influential book The Doors of Perception ur 245 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: which explores the psychedelic experience. Yeah, and Huxley had a 246 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: correspondence with Humphrey Osmond, who was an important nineteen fifties 247 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: psychedelic researcher, and they it was from their correspondence I 248 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: believe that the term psychedelic came. Yeah. And then oh, 249 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: by the way that I think we may have touched 250 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: on this in past episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 251 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: But Huxley experienced a fantasia. He couldn't form, you know, 252 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: mental images in his mind except when he had large 253 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: quantities of mescaline. That's interesting. So, uh so White had 254 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: this experience worked it into the plot, and we'll discuss 255 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: how he does that later. But then apparently White related 256 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: his experiences to Vincent Price, hoping that it would convince 257 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: Price to give a more convincing performance in the film, 258 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: you know, specifically in the scene where he's supposed to 259 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: be on LSD. But then Price allegedly just disregarded the 260 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: suggestion and did it like the typical like Vincent Price 261 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: freak out the scene. Oh yeah, he's got the wide 262 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: open mouth and the ohh he's I think he's supposed 263 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: to be hallucinating that the walls are closing in on him. 264 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: But the scene is hilarious because he's trying to prevent 265 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: the walls from closing in on him by running back 266 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: and forth between the walls, and it's like a thirty 267 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: foot wide room. So he runs and pushes on a wall, 268 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: then runs all the way to the other side, moaning 269 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: and pushes on that wall. Uh. I don't want to. 270 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, blame Price in any 271 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: of this, because I mean, he still gives a really 272 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: solid performance. Was ultimately like the glube holding the whole 273 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: thing together. His charisma carries the film. I mean, one 274 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: thing I will say about this movie is I was 275 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: surprised how engaging it was. We watched it just last night. 276 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how I've made it this far without 277 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: seeing The Tanler before, especially because I love, you know, 278 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties horror movies, and and and I how did 279 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: it happen? I think for some reason I had maybe 280 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: been told or I just assumed somehow that it was 281 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: one of those really dull, dry nineteen fifties sci fi 282 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: horror movies and you know, there are a number of those. 283 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: There are a lot of fifties horror movies I like 284 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: that maybe have a great, funny looking monster, great set 285 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: or prop or something, but a lot of the characters 286 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: and the dialogue are just infinitely stiff, you know, kind 287 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: of like gray neutral things receding into infinity, and so 288 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: it just happened sometimes I assume this was one of those. 289 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: Not the case at all. This movie is like highly engaging, 290 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: really funny camp and I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop watching. Yeah, 291 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: I think it's it's easy to overlook it from our 292 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: standpoint looking back through cinematic history, because on one hand, 293 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: if you if you see just a line of a 294 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: different movie Monsters, the Tingler is not going to be 295 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: as captivating as you know, certainly like Universal Monsters, but 296 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: even other things like the crawling brain creatures and Fiend 297 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: without a Face that sort of thing. Uh, and yeah, 298 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: it can easily be lost in the shuffle. It also 299 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: doesn't help that the trailer for it is just William 300 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: Castle telling you how scary it's going to be, and 301 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: like shots of people screaming. Yeah, but it is a 302 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: really fun movie, I think because a lot of it 303 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: I think has to do with the charisma of Vincent Price, 304 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: and like the weirdness of the premise. A lot of 305 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: it also just has to do with the zany nous 306 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: of the plot. Yeah, it has a zany plot and 307 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: and really just a weird premise. We're gonna get into 308 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: this and and ultimately draw some some science out of it, 309 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, this is a weird plot. And even if 310 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: White's LSD experiences didn't have a huge influence on Vincent 311 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: Price's performance, and ultimately they don't even factor into the 312 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: plot all that deeply, I still wonder, if you know, 313 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: if what we're looking at here some of the weirder 314 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: aspects of it might have something to do with the 315 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: psychedelic experience. I think it is a more engaging film 316 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: because it was written by somebody who had an LSD experience. 317 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: I'll go I'll go that far and make that assumption. 318 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: So maybe we should just describe what happens in the movie. Warning, 319 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna have some spoilers for this movie from If 320 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: you want to watch it fresh, pause the podcast. Now 321 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: go see it. It's available you know, for rent at 322 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: all major online movie rental websites, alright, so the plot 323 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: of the film is kind of a mess, but here's 324 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: how it goes. The crazy central nugget upon which everything 325 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: is based is that Dr Warren che Happen. That's prices character. 326 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: I think they say Chapenha've been a couple of years 327 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: and I've seen it. So Dr Chapin, he's a pathologist 328 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: who makes a game changing discovery about human physiology, something 329 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: that scientist healers shamans uh you know, body hacking warriors 330 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: uh failed to discover throughout our species entire history. And 331 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: this is it. We all have a centipede like paraside 332 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: a k a. A tingler affixed to our spine and 333 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: it curls up and feeds whenever we exhibit fear, and 334 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: if it keeps feeding, it kills us by constructing constricting 335 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: our spinal cord. But we have a way to cope 336 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: with it. Screaming weakens the creature and stops its strangulation 337 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: on the human spine. So you can tell this was 338 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: kind of I think written around the idea, or I 339 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe maybe it was adapted to what was 340 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: already in the script, the idea of getting people to scream, 341 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: as like a gimmick in the theater. So they're like 342 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: parts of the movie that just have people screaming. It's 343 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: like divorced from the plot. It's just faces on the 344 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: screen screaming into the camera with really ragged, real sounding screams. 345 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: This kind of shocking because usually the screams you hear 346 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: in a movie feel a little bit smoothed over. They're 347 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: a little bit sanitary as far as screams go. Yeah, 348 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: but these are these feel unsettling for sure. Yeah, totally. 349 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: And so this premise is amazing so Vincent Price. It 350 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: starts off with him as a guy who does autopsies. 351 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: He's like doing autopsies on executed condemned prisoners who were 352 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: murderers and stuff, and he keeps getting this idea, why 353 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: do I find the spinal column cracked and destroyed? You know, 354 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: and these people who died of fright. There's actually a 355 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: great part where he's he says something like, I've thought 356 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: about not for two years, but the spinal cracking due 357 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: to fear. So yeah, you just kind of have to imagine, 358 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: like all of his conversation ends of his family and friends, 359 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: it all comes back to the spinal column breaking due 360 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: to fear and yeah, and so he makes this discovery 361 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: that it's it's a Tingler. It's a parasitic organism that 362 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: not just these individuals have, but that everybody has. Right, 363 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: everybody's got a Tingler. And and I'm it's been a 364 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: while since I've I've seen it. But as I recall, like, 365 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: he uses LSD to try and invoke an intense enough 366 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: experience of fear in himself to better study the Tinglers. 367 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: That right, Yeah, So he's trying to to document the 368 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: Tingler I think by taking X rays of people's spines 369 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: right after they're mortified and uh. And so he wants 370 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: to do it to himself, but he laments the fact 371 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: that nothing scares him. It's like, you know, when I 372 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: was a child, I could have been afraid, but now 373 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm just grown up and nothing, nothing really scares me 374 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: like that. So he gets the bright idea to inject 375 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: himself with LSD and this will they explain helpfully in 376 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: the film that this will induce nightmares like nothing else. 377 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: And so he does it, and the walls start closing 378 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: in and he starts looking at a prop skeleton and 379 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: his laboratory and this causes him to have such terror 380 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: that I guess the tingler comes out of him. But 381 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: the problem is, I think what he's try that's right, 382 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: it activates, right, it activates, which means it like puffs 383 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: up like a balloon on your spine and you can 384 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: see it in X rays when you wouldn't normally be 385 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: able to see it. Uh. And so the thing that 386 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: he's trying to do, I think is get the tingler 387 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: to puff up and then see what happens if he 388 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: doesn't scream. But he's not able to do it. He's 389 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: so overcome with fear that he has to scream. And 390 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: from this, I think he concludes that it is impossible 391 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: to avoid screaming if the tingler swells up to a 392 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: significant size, And like, screaming is a natural response that 393 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: you can't avoid unless, say, you are incapable of screaming. Ah. 394 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: And that's where we get to our next plot element, 395 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: because meanwhile, theater owner Oliver Higgins has a terrible relationship 396 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: with his wife Martha. Oliver also owns a theater. This 397 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: is the theater that is used later. And I believe 398 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: they just do they just show silent films, that's right, Yeah, yeah, 399 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: they don't. They only do the old movies and the like. 400 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: At one point, there's a there's a long scene towards 401 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: the end where they're just showing an old silent movie. 402 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: That's a real old silent movie. It seems like a 403 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: convenient way to pad the run time. So it's anyway, 404 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: Oliver and Martha they do not get along, and we're 405 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: presenting with a lot of scenes just showing how poorly 406 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: they get along. They're always fighting and uh and we 407 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: also learned that she herself, Martha, is deaf and mute. 408 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: So you can see where this is going now. Having 409 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: heard about the Tingler from his neighbor, uh Vincent Price, 410 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: Higgins plots to scare his wife to death, knowing that 411 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: she will be unable to scream to keep her own 412 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: tingler from killing her. Okay, does that make sense? So 413 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: when you scream because you're scared, that stops the tinkler 414 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: from swelling up to such a size that it breaks 415 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: your spine and kills you. But if you can't scream, 416 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: it will swell up to that size, break your spine 417 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: and kill you. So he just has to terrify his 418 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: wife to death, right, and that's what he he sets 419 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: out to do. He frightens her to death with a 420 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: mix of of stage and what I assume are supposed 421 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: to be actual hallucinations, including an actually really trippy scene 422 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: in this black and white movie in which a hand 423 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: emerges from a red bathtub. Yeah, that's an interesting thing. 424 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: I guess there's another sort of cinematography gimmick of castles 425 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: in a way where the movie is in black and white. 426 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: But there is one scene where where this woman is 427 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: having this horrifying experience where she looks into the bathroom 428 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: and the bathtub is full of red liquid, presumably blood, 429 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: and she has a terrible, terrible fear of seeing blood. Um, 430 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: and so, like, how did they do that? I was 431 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: reading about it. Supposedly what happened is they spliced in 432 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: this one scene that was filmed in color, where everything 433 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: in the scene had to be like painted black and 434 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: white and gray except the bathtub which had the red 435 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: stuff in it. Uh. That that's what's been alleged, But 436 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's actually true. I guess another 437 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: way it could have been done is just like hand 438 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: coloring of a black and white image. Well, either way, 439 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: the result is impressive. When I saw it for the 440 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: first time in the theater, not expecting it to happen. 441 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: I was legitimately wild by it, because on one hand, 442 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, she's seeing blood so vividly that it's 443 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: visible in black and white. But also it's like, this 444 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: is a black and white world, and via the this 445 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: this fear hallucination, you're they're actually seeing this color for 446 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: the first time. So she dies and then Chapin performs 447 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: the autopsy and removes the oversized tingler from her spine. Um. 448 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: I guess it's either still swollen from feeding on all 449 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: that delicious fear or just since she could never scream 450 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: her entire life, it was an enlarged specimen. But then 451 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: it escapes and it runs them uck ends up in 452 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: a movie theater. There were I'm skipping ahead, like, there's 453 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a scene where Vincent Price's character 454 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: is sleeping and it's crawling on it. Well, that this 455 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: is all to do with the conflict, I wonder if 456 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: you might have been conflating a couple of things earlier 457 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: actually when you said that, uh, that Oliver Higgins and 458 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: his wife Martha were always fighting. What what we definitely 459 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: see a lot of is Vincent Price and his own wife. 460 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: That's what I'm getting confused. His wife played by Patricia Cutts, 461 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: who she's she's portrayed as like the scheming heiress who uh, 462 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: she doesn't take her husband seriously because he spends too 463 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: much time working. Rachel and I were talking about it 464 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: and I was like, this is kind of like a 465 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: bore At movie because it's like, it's all about these 466 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: guys who are like my wife and they want to 467 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: get revenge on their wives and end up using the 468 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: Tingler to do so. And it's I cannot express how 469 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: funny it is the way people in this movie keeps 470 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: saying the words the Tingler and dialogue. So like there's 471 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: a part where, you know, one of the characters is 472 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: Oliver Higgins is explaining his plot to murder his own wife, 473 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: and he says something like, I got the idea from 474 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: you about you know the Tingler. Ah. Yeah, it's uh, 475 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: just the the dialogue alone is is wonderful in this 476 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: so at any rate, skipping ahead, the Tingler ns up 477 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: running a monk. It's running a bunk in a movie 478 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: theater um and you know people are or or you know, 479 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: it's vibrating the seats and then people watching it, you know, 480 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: they're having the vibration effect going on as well, ideally 481 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: to heighten the fear. And then Chapin shows up and 482 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: he's telling everybody scream, scream for your life in order 483 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: to subdue the creature, and they are able to subdue it, 484 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: and then Chapin inserts the parasite back into Martha's corpse, 485 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: and then in a confusing and perhaps nonsensical ending, the 486 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: husband winds up locked in a room with the corpse 487 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: and he's experiences this like, you know, crazy hallucinatory fear, 488 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: and her corpse rises up from the table and he's 489 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: so scared he's unable to scream, and we're left to 490 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: presume what that means for him. I was trying to 491 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: understand what was happening at the end of there. It 492 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense to me. Why was she coming 493 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: back to life? I don't know. Yeah, it's not something 494 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: that has been established with the creature before. It's not 495 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: even suggested that it can animate a corpse. I feel 496 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: like they kind of just work themselves into a corner 497 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: there and they're like, what would be a flashy ending, 498 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: and let's do that. Yeah, I guess so. Um I 499 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean maybe it's just kind of like 500 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: it's like the ending of Jaws, right, you know, where 501 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: it's like people could complain like, I don't understand, doesn't 502 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: make any sense that the shark has this tank in 503 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: its mouth and that it explodes the shark when it 504 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: and it's just like, you know, at that point in 505 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: the story, you're not worrying about it. It's the finale. 506 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: You're just you're good with whatever. Yeah, it's true, they've 507 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: got you. But but I do think we should just 508 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: take another moment to just think about how wonderfully weird, 509 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: and I argue, incredibly psychedelic. Just the basic concept is, 510 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: I mean, think about some of the perceptions and confrontations 511 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: of fear, the personification and manifestation of various fear as 512 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: you see in psychedelic literature and descriptions of psychedelic experiences. 513 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: And this film is telling you, hey, there, your fear 514 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: is a weird bug monster living inside you. But you 515 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: can fight back against it, you can scream at it, 516 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: you can wrestle with it on the floor. Uh, it 517 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: feels suitably psychedelic in that sense. Well, well, I think 518 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that is not literally biologically true, 519 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: but may actually be a quite useful metaphor. Yeah, you know, 520 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: I'm reminded of, you know, some of the things that uh, well, 521 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: Terence McKenna has written about talking about, you know, this 522 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: disconnect that humans have with their inner realities and from 523 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: their souls, and how that might tie into psychological experiences 524 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: of UFOs and aliens. He wrote, we are alienated, so 525 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: alienated that the self must disguise itself as an extraterrestrial 526 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: in order not to alarm us with the truly bizarre 527 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: dimensions that it encompasses. So maybe I'm reading too much 528 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: into the Tinkler, But but I I thought about that. 529 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: You are not reading too much into the Tingler. You 530 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: are tingling it just the right frequency. It's actually kind 531 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: of a fun mental exercise to try and imagine, like 532 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: what would the world be like if there were Tingler. 533 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: Let's come back to that. Alright. On that note, we're 534 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. 535 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: Thank Alright, we're back. So we've been talking about the Tingler, 536 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: and Robert I am to understand that you believe the 537 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: Tingler is based on a real life organism, or at 538 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: least could be. Yeah, I mean to a certain extent. 539 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: It's my understanding based on some of the materials I 540 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: was looking at that it's commonly believed that the basic 541 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: design of the creature is based on a very real organism. 542 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: It's not not an indo parasite or a parasite at all, 543 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: but it is a real life organism known as the 544 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: velvet worm and the velvet worm um. I encourage everyone 545 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: to look up images or footage of this creature. I 546 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: know it is is factored into some recent Attenborough documentaries, 547 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: so there so there is some tremendous footage of these creatures. 548 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: Even though they're they're they're hard to find as as 549 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: we'll discuss here, but there are roughly seventy species of 550 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: velvet worm that are still thriving in the world, and 551 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: you'll only find them in rainforest environments. Again, they're not 552 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: parasites at all, but rather a leaf litter predator that 553 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: that has this wonderful adaptation. So, just to describe it 554 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: real quick, it's this this long looking creature that looks 555 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: kind of like a centipede and looks almost exactly like 556 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: the tingler um has. You know, this pair of a 557 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: long antennae in the front, and as you're watching it 558 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 1: move around, it is there's this odd feeling that what 559 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: you're looking at is a little bit unlike any other organism, 560 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: Like it kind of looks like a sea slug, but 561 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: it has legs and it is on the ground, So 562 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: what's happening? So uh, it has a number of really 563 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: cool adaptations. For example, Uh, it's rather slow moving, but 564 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: it is a predator and the way that it a 565 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: wires its prey is by shooting fast hardening slime from 566 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: a pair of projections near its mouth. And this fast, 567 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: this like quick hardening slime subdues their prey long enough 568 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: for the worm to to you know, shamble over, crack 569 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: open the prey's shell, inject it's digestive saliva, and then 570 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: suck the slurry of saliva and you know, generally, like 571 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: arthropod guts back out of the out of the slim husk. 572 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's awesome. Well, it's kind of like 573 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: some species of arachnid, like the lasso spiders or the 574 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: spitting spiders that will shoot a like some kind of 575 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: projectile web thing at their prey or drop some kind 576 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: of projectile web thing from above, and then they can descend, 577 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: and then of course that they also deal with some 578 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: some vomiting or injecting of digestive juices. Yeah, and and 579 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: this creature can also shoot the slime and self defense 580 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: and the it's a very swift attack, especially coming from 581 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 1: a creature that's the wise quite slow. The other crazy 582 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: thing about this, uh, this creature is that it's often 583 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: described as being like a halfway point between an earthworm 584 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: and uh and you know, proper insects. So it's not 585 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: a centipede, which you would normally think of as having 586 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: like an exoskeleton, right, yeah, it's it's a stranger creature 587 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: and it's been around for about five hundred million years. 588 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: Oh so this is a Cambrian friend. Yeah, yeah, fossils day, 589 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: back to the Cambrian Age. Their fossils pop up in 590 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: the Burgess Shale in Canada, alright, so that we're talking 591 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: like five d five million years old, and also the 592 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: ching Jiang Formation in China about five twenty million years old, 593 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: so we have fossil evidence of essentially the same creature. 594 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: So wait a minute, that would be uh. I think 595 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: all of those fossil beds are ancient marine fossil beds. 596 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: So would this also be a creature that you would 597 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: find in the water, or would this be like a 598 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: water dwelling version of it, or or do you know 599 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: what's going on there? I'm not entirely sure on that account. 600 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: I mean that the species that are alive today are 601 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: all terrestrial organisms that thrive exclusively in rainforest in environments. 602 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: Um they have waterproof skin, they their legs have retractable claws, 603 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: and they have when it comes down to like how 604 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: many legs they have, it varies like some have as 605 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: few as thirteen pairs of stubby legs, others have as 606 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: many as forty three pairs of stubby legs depending on 607 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: the species. The spigots that it's that it squirts the 608 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: slime out of or essentially modified legs, and then the 609 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: slime legs modified legs like two little modified legs in 610 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: the front that have become slimespigots. But then the glands 611 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: that power those slimes figots, they run the entire length 612 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: of the creature's body and they amount that for about 613 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: ten percent of the creatures overall body mass. So basically 614 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: muscles contract and squeeze it out like fast squirting toothpaste, 615 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: and there's some other just really like weird curios about 616 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: this particular creature. For instance, there's at least one species 617 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: of velvet velvet worm that is social, and it lives 618 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: in groups ruled by a dominant female and they have 619 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: an entire hierarchy, which is just mind boggling. There's another 620 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: species that's apparently all female. The rest use sexual reproduction, 621 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: with the males in one particular genus simply depositing their 622 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: sperm on the female skin, which causes the localized area 623 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: of the skin to break down and permit the sperm 624 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: to pass into the female's body and then swim to 625 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: the ovaries. So it's like a form of like chemical 626 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: traumatic insemination. Yea, some velvet worms lay eggs, but most 627 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: of them give birth to live young weird. So yeah, 628 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: they are. They are strange creatures, like it, really alien 629 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: feeling creatures, as alien, if not more so than the 630 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: tingler itself. Yeah, especially the idea that you have these 631 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: little like a social group of these things. Um. But 632 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: but of course the you know, you get into the 633 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: world of various creepy crowls and you find other weird 634 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: creatives as well. Like I was reading the other day 635 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: that there are some varieties of centipede where you see 636 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: maternal instinct where the the mother centipede will like corral 637 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: the young centipedes and like surround them to protect them. 638 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: So um uh yeah, I mean we shouldn't take just 639 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: because something is you know, seemingly primitive organism, uh and 640 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: uh and kind of icky, we shouldn't take for granted 641 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,479 Speaker 1: the complexity of its life cycle. Yeah. I think, uh, 642 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: A lot of these discoveries undercut the kind of traditional 643 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: top level belief in you know nature, red in tooth 644 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: and claw, where it's just outside of the mammals, it's 645 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: all just killing and struggle and all that. I mean, 646 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,959 Speaker 1: I think the more we learn about not just uh, 647 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, other vertebrates, but even invertebrates, you you start 648 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: to see I mean, of course you will see you know, 649 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: like parents eating their young young eating the parents, but 650 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: you will also see strange, almost mammalian looking parenting instincts 651 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't expect if you just have this like 652 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: struggle and fighting based view of nature. Absolutely so so 653 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: again the Tingler. Don't watch The Tingler and expect to 654 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: you know, accurate portrayal of velvet worm biology and behavior. 655 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: But roughly speaking, like the creature is based on the 656 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: morphology of a velvet worm. Well, especially because I think, 657 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: don't they say in the movie that the tingler is 658 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: like indestructible, like they can't pierce it with any implements 659 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: or something. I imagine velvet worms are not quite like that. 660 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: They look pretty soft to me. Well, they're certainly not indestructible, 661 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: that's for sure. Uh, And they are you know again, 662 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: they're not parasites. It's really hard to imagine how a 663 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: velvet worm could have U I mean, so certainly we 664 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: see creatures that you know, take on a parasitic relationship 665 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: over the course of evolutionary history, but it's hard to 666 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: imagine how a velvet worm would carry this off. You know, 667 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: like velvet worms start hanging out on people's necks or 668 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: on you know, you know, pre human harmited necks, and 669 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: it just kind of evolves from there. I don't think 670 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: it really makes a lot of sense. Well I do think, well, okay, 671 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: so let's follow up on that then, because I think 672 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: maybe we should talk about the idea of fear and 673 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: the indo symbion. So there's, uh, the premise of the Tingler. 674 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: I guess is that we've got this um, this indo 675 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: symbion living inside us. And I don't think it's ever 676 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: said explicitly, but I get the impression that it's that 677 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: this thing has evolved with us and has passed down 678 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: from parents to offspring, since there's like no indication that 679 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: people have to get exposed and infected at some point 680 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: in their lives. Did you get the same impression, right, 681 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: it's it's it seems to be implied that it's just ubiquitous, 682 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: like you're not going to find communities of humans that 683 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: do not have a Tingler, right, And so this kind 684 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: of like cross generational inheritance of the indo symbion Tingler 685 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,959 Speaker 1: is what we would call vertical transmission parent parent offspring transmission. 686 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: Now it turns out that, of course, humans do have 687 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: plenty of other organisms living in and on us which 688 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: apparently have evolved with us and are vertically transmitted across generations. 689 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: One very ancient, deep and fundamental example is the mitochondria 690 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: inside the cells in our body. So of course the 691 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: mitochondrian is this organelle that's found inside the cells of 692 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: eukaryotic organisms, meaning organisms with a cell nucleus, and that 693 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: of course includes us and the mitochondria do important work 694 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: to help supply the host cells with energy. They generate 695 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: a dinzine triphosphate or a t P, which is a 696 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: molecule that carries chemical energy around inside the cells and 697 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: inside the body. But there are very weird things about mitochondria, 698 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: so that they are these little organelles inside our cells. 699 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: But one example of a weird fact about them is 700 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: that mitochondria have their own DNA. So inside a cell 701 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: in your body, you've got your cell nucleus, which is 702 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: where you find your own primary genome, the genetic code 703 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: that builds your body. But then there are these other 704 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: little things inside our cells that have their own separate genome. 705 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: And the really weird thing is when you examine that 706 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 1: separate mitochondrial genome inside our cells, it looks an awful 707 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: lot like the genome of a bacterium. Now why would 708 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: that be, Well, the prevailing theory about the origin of 709 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: mitochondria is maybe even weirder than the Tingler. It is 710 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: that long long ago, a bacterium was somehow captured inside 711 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: an early eukaryotic cell, meaning, of course, a cell with 712 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: the nucleus, and instead of dying or just getting resorbed 713 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: or whatever, the bacterium lived and became a part of 714 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: the cell that captured it, reproducing along with it and 715 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: its descendants evolving along with the descendants of the cat 716 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: sure cell. So that now what was once a free 717 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: floating bacterium that was completely unrelated to us is a 718 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: fundamental part of the cells in our body. It's a 719 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: crucial element in what our cells do. So in this 720 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: the the human tingular relationship, you could really look at 721 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: it is kind of like this oversize maybe like you 722 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: know cartoonified, uh, you know, illustration of something that that 723 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: has actually occurred. Yeah, I mean, and occurs all the 724 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: time in nature. One organism just sort of becomes a 725 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: part of another organism's lineage history over time and becomes 726 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: a part of their evolutionary story. And this theory on 727 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: the origin of of mitochondria is known as the indosymbiosis theory. 728 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: It's also a leading theory about the origins of other 729 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: things like chloroplasts in photosynthetic life forms like plants um. 730 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: But of course it doesn't stop with the little things 731 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: inside ourselves. We've got other organisms living and evolving with 732 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: us of all sorts. It's not necessarily co evolved inside 733 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: our cells, but definitely in and on our bodies. And 734 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: this the primary example, of course, would be the human microbiome, 735 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: the sum total of micro organisms that inhabit the environment 736 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: of your body. This can be hard to fathom, but 737 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: your body is likely home to so many microbes that 738 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: your cells with your DNA are outnumbered ten to one. 739 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: Now what I'm about to say wouldn't apply in terms 740 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: of mass or volume, but just in terms of sheer 741 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: numbers of cells. You are only ten per cent of 742 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: your own body. The other nine of the cells that 743 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: are in you and on you are bacterial cells that 744 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,959 Speaker 1: are of course smaller than mammal cells. And of course, 745 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: like the Tinkler, there's evidence that our microbiome is transmitted 746 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: not only horizontally, meaning you know, through exposure to microbes 747 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: in the environment, but also vertically passing directly from mother 748 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 1: to offspring. And we can see this because babies tend 749 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,720 Speaker 1: to often pick up the same strains of bacteria found 750 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: in there but in their mothers. And I think one 751 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: of the most fascinating things we've learned in microbiology and 752 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: human medical science over the past few decades is how 753 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,879 Speaker 1: deeply bound up each individual human microbiome is with that 754 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: person's health and physiology, and even with their psychology, with 755 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: what's happening in their brain. And here's where I would 756 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: argue that if the tingler is a co evolved indosymbiotic 757 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: organism living inside our bodies for generations and influencing our 758 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: fear and anxiety, we sort of do have a tinkler, 759 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: at least a collective tinkler, and it appears to be 760 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 1: your gut flora, the microbes living in your digestive tract. 761 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: It's been established in plenty of studies by now that 762 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: there are relationships between what's happening in the gut flora 763 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: and human behavior and including things like depression and anxiety. Uh. 764 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: And so does that relationship extend to the direct regulation 765 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: of like the immediate fear response like it does in 766 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: the tingler you know you're getting freaked out about something 767 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: scary you encounter or in your environment. It appears likely yes. 768 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: So I want to look at a recent study from 769 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: by Alani hoban at All published in Molecular Psychiatry called 770 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: the microbiome regulates a migdala dependent fear recall. And the 771 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 1: basic gest here is that normally mice can be conditioned 772 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: to exhibit a fear reaction, and this usually consists of 773 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: freezing in place when they hear a sound that they 774 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: have come to associate with something scary or bad. You know. 775 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: So there's like a tone that mice gets scared of, 776 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: and when they hear the tone, they freeze in place. 777 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: And the study found that germ free mice, meaning mice 778 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: that are depleted of their internal microbiota, do not show 779 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: fear responses the way normal mice do. They appear to 780 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: have a reduced stability to learn to be afraid of 781 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: things and have the fear response. And weirdly, once these 782 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: germ free mice are exposed to environmental microbes and become 783 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: infested with all the normal kind of bacteria that make 784 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: a home inside mice guts, the same mice suddenly do 785 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: have a fear response again, and the researchers believe that 786 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: their studies shows that at least in mice, the gut 787 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: flora somehow exert control over the amygdala, which is a 788 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: region in the brain that appears to be crucial for 789 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,439 Speaker 1: generating fear in response to frightening stimuli. Now, of course 790 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: we don't know if this would translate perfectly to humans. 791 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: This is just a study in mice, but there's a 792 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: decent chance I think that the same is true for us. 793 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: And if this is true for humans, can you imagine, like, 794 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: what if a fecal transplant, which is that is what 795 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: it sounds like, um or some other method of manipulating 796 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: gut flora could trigger fundamental changes in our propensity for anxiety, 797 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: or our phobias, or even our fundamental personality. The haunted 798 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: fecal transplant sounds like a potential gimmick for a future 799 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: horror film. I mean, how crazy is that? Like that 800 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: that we were full of bacteria and in other microbes 801 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: that are controlling our brains in a way. It doesn't 802 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: feel like that, but it does very much appear to 803 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: be true. Yeah, I feel like this is one of 804 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,320 Speaker 1: those things that certainly, over the course of the show, 805 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: here is stuff to blow your mind. You know, we 806 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: just have looked at a case after case where show 807 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: where we're exploring just the power of the microbiome, you know, 808 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: and it's and it's it's integration with with the mind 809 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: and when what we think of when we think of ourselves. Yes, exactly, 810 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: these bacteria in us and on us aren't just in 811 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: us and on us. They are us and we are them. Uh. 812 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: The most fundamental thing, I mean, the only way that 813 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: you would really say that they're not us is that 814 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: they have different d NA than we do. But like 815 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: they share the same body space, they're involved in the 816 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: same generation of behaviors as our brain cells are. So yeah, 817 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: so basically we am legion to take him. Yeah, amazing, Like, 818 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: how much of your idea of yourself, your your legion personality, 819 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: your legion identity is a result of effects generated by 820 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: the ecosystem of non human organisms living in your digestive system. 821 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: I positive that this is actually much weirder than having 822 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: a tingler on your spine. I always anytime I think 823 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: about all this, though, I always come back to the 824 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: future episode where Fry eats a tuna sandwich that he 825 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: buys out of a machine in a men's room and 826 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: it causes this. Uh, They're like these little intestinal worms 827 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: to build a colony inside him and like build little cities, 828 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: and and then they start fixing him and they make 829 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: him smarter and so it's essentially like it. It has, Uh, 830 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: there's an inner space aspect to the episode as well 831 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: as the Flowers for Algernon aspect to it. And it's 832 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: a great episode overall and very funny. But but what 833 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: they're portraying in a sci fi sense and an an 834 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: exaggerated cartoony away is essentially some of what's going on. Yeah, 835 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: we're we're full of these legions of life that in 836 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: many senses control us and or at least exert influence 837 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: over us, and in some ways really truly are us. 838 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: All Right, well, maybe we should take another break, and 839 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: then after we come back we can talk a bit 840 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: more about fear and the scream. Thank thank thank Alright, 841 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: we're back. Say what you will about The Tanler, love 842 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,280 Speaker 1: it or hate it, but it has some tremendous screams 843 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: in it. Absolutely, Yeah, And Robert, there was one thing 844 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about the day after I first watched 845 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: The Tingler. I came in the morning and when we 846 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 1: were discussing the quality of screams in movies, and I 847 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,879 Speaker 1: had this reaction to a part of the movie. So 848 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: my question is, why do some screams feel so much 849 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: more disturbing than others when you hear them, Like there's 850 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: one screaming session at the beginning of The Tingler that 851 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: felt like something that was not out of a nineteen 852 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: fifties movie. It felt more like the Texas Chainsaw Masks 853 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: with some great screaming in that film. Courtesy of Maryland Burns. Yeah, 854 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 1: but it's just like the pure sonic quality. I mean, 855 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: it was nothing about what was happening on screen. It's 856 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: just the sound of it felt extremely disturbing and almost unbearable. 857 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: It had this weird, kind of forbidden or pornographic quality 858 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: to it. And this is purely to do with what 859 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: it sounded like, the auditory qualities and nothing else. Most 860 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: movie screams, especially from the horror movies of the nineteen fifties, 861 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 1: feel kind of sanitary. They're kind of stagy and clean. 862 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: But this scream at the beginning of The Tingler feels 863 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: wrong and you wanted to stop. And the only reason 864 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: I could really identify was that something about it sounded. 865 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: The word that came to my mind was ragged. Yeah, 866 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,399 Speaker 1: do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah? Absolutely, this Yeah, 867 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: this kind of like ragged like screaming. No, you know, 868 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: no intention of retaining your voice for the next set 869 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: of takes um and you do. And when you do 870 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: encounter it in a film, it it does just add 871 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: to the the intensity of the horror um And you know, 872 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: only a few films really come to mind. I instantly 873 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: think of Texas Chainsaw Mascre. I think of House by 874 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,919 Speaker 1: the Cemetery, in which you have a small child disturbingly enough, 875 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,320 Speaker 1: who is screaming its head off in a similar fashion 876 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: where it has this raw intensity. Yeah, and it's it's 877 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,560 Speaker 1: like a I was honestly shocked by how disturbing it 878 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: sounds just to hear a scream like that that, like, 879 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,279 Speaker 1: even with no context at all, because no story is 880 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: happening at this point in the movie. There's just like 881 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: just before it starts, they're just like, we'll throw some 882 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: screams at you. And it really, it really like hurt 883 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 1: to listen to. And so I was thinking about that, like, Wow, 884 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,879 Speaker 1: what's going on with that scream? And well, one read 885 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 1: could be Joe that it's causing your tingler to relax, 886 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 1: and uh, I like my tingler inflated. Oh my goodness, 887 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: what if what if this were the case? What if 888 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: what if the Tingler does not relax does not react 889 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: at all to fake screams. It has to be like 890 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: a significantly believable scream. And therefore, like a lot of 891 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: our horror movie viewing is ultimately pointless because you're no 892 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 1: good Catharsis to it, Like, it's not actually going to 893 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: relax the Tingler that is that is slowly um, you know, 894 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,399 Speaker 1: exerting this death grip on our spine. Yeah, it's one 895 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 1: of those smooth, polished, stagey screams that just does nothing 896 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: for your Tingler. Yeah, but I can set around all 897 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: day and discuss the ramifications of if the Tingler was real. Uh, 898 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: let's get back to just the nature of screams in 899 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: our reality. Okay, Well, I've got that question, So we 900 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 1: can table that for a second about like what is 901 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,800 Speaker 1: it about the sonic qualities of that scream that felt 902 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: so different than most movie screams, especially at that period. 903 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: The other thing is just the question of like why 904 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: do we scream? Is there a biological answer of what's 905 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: going on? The The second question I think is is 906 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,919 Speaker 1: not a super complicated one, Like the leading theories about 907 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: why we scream are just not very surprising, right, Uh. 908 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: Screaming in response to fear is most likely some kind 909 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,840 Speaker 1: of instinctual alarm call. When you see something dangerous, you 910 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,279 Speaker 1: kind of scream automatically, and this serves the purpose of 911 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: communicating the threat to others because we're social animals, right, 912 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: and we see animals that do this to communicate with 913 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: members of their own species. We see animals that do 914 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: this seemingly to communicate with with other species as well. Yeah, totally, 915 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: And this could serve several different biological functions, maybe all 916 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 1: at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive. One is 917 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: to immediately request help, you know, like I need air support. Uh, 918 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 1: You scream to request help from friends and kin and 919 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,880 Speaker 1: other protectors or even other types of animals in your environment, 920 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 1: especially help from adults. If the scream comes from a child, 921 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 1: I think that's like a very specific kind of thing, 922 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,600 Speaker 1: like you know, you hear your kids scream, and there's 923 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: like this automatic, powerful and mediate response. Yeah, And that's 924 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,240 Speaker 1: another reason why House by the Cemetery Lucio Foolsey's film 925 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,680 Speaker 1: is probably so disturbing, because you're getting this very authentic 926 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,480 Speaker 1: scream from a young child, and there's also the sense 927 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,479 Speaker 1: that they just terrified a young child. Yeah, I mean yeah, 928 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: that's it's especially bad because they sound actually scared. Um. 929 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: But a couple of other possible biological functions the scream serves, 930 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,240 Speaker 1: again not mutually exclusive. Another one is to maybe worn 931 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: nearby can of danger, reducing their own risks. So you 932 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: share some genes with them, you scream, and that warns 933 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: them of danger. They're also in reduced danger because now 934 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: they're on alert. Right. So if I wandered away from 935 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the tribe and a large predator jumped 936 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 1: out at me, well I got that one good scream 937 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,839 Speaker 1: in so I may be toast, but at least there's 938 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 1: a shot of the rest of my people hearing my 939 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 1: death cry and reacting to save their own skin. Yeah. 940 00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 1: And then another perhaps secondary maybe possibly in some cases 941 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: this is what's going on, could be defensive. Some predators 942 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: or threats might be frightened or held at bay by 943 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: a sudden, very loud noise. Yeah, I mean, yeah, this 944 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,120 Speaker 1: is this is true. I mean you one of the 945 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,239 Speaker 1: things that is advised and encountering, say a bear in 946 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: the wild, is to be loud, to make a lot 947 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,239 Speaker 1: of noise exactly. Yeah. But but there are also some 948 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 1: interesting finds. So so like the question about why we 949 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,840 Speaker 1: scream biologically, that doesn't seem like a big mystery, that 950 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 1: that seems like one of those pretty straightforward evolutionary stories, 951 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: is at least as far as we know. But there 952 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: are some very interesting scientific findings about what happens in 953 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: our brain when we hear a scream. And so I 954 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 1: was reading about a study by by Luke h rn 955 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 1: All at All in Current Biology and called human screams 956 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,799 Speaker 1: occupy a privileged niche in the communication soundscape. And so 957 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,240 Speaker 1: essentially what the authors here found is that the brain 958 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: has a different, dedicated pathway for processing screams, and this 959 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: pathway is sort of separate from the way it processes 960 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,000 Speaker 1: other sounds and other types of auditory communication between people. Uh. 961 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,480 Speaker 1: And so they did some brain imaging and it revealed 962 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: that most of the time, incoming audio is perceived by 963 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: the ear, of course, and leads to activity in the 964 00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: standard auditory processing centers. But screams, on the other hand, 965 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,239 Speaker 1: are heard and then they sort of bypass normal auditory 966 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:27,440 Speaker 1: processing and instead trigger pretty much immediate activation in the amygdala, 967 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,000 Speaker 1: a region of the brain that of course is very 968 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,320 Speaker 1: important for generating the fear response. Now, the brain seems 969 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,839 Speaker 1: to immediately recognize screams as signaling something threatening, and then 970 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: it responds accordingly. It's kind of like it's like a 971 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: short cut in there. You don't need to figure out 972 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 1: what's going on. As soon as you hear the scream, 973 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: the fear that you know, the the alarm state, wells 974 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,919 Speaker 1: up inside you. And so I was wondering, well, what's 975 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: the acoustic criterion here, Like, how does the brain tell 976 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: what a scream is or how much like a scream 977 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,280 Speaker 1: a sound has to be before it triggers this react action. 978 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,279 Speaker 1: And the researchers found that the main criterion activating the 979 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: sphere response in the brain was was a quality of 980 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,399 Speaker 1: the sound. That was that they called acoustic roughness. And 981 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: this means how rapidly the amplitude of the sound is modulated. Uh, 982 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,120 Speaker 1: it can be kind of hard to explain, but basically 983 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: it refers to if the loudness of the sound rapidly changes. 984 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,640 Speaker 1: So think about a smooth sound kind of like a 985 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:31,920 Speaker 1: single tone alarm, you know, deep versus those rapidly pulsing 986 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,879 Speaker 1: alarms that might play the same pitch maybe even at 987 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,719 Speaker 1: the same volume, but suddenly but like rapidly pulsing loud 988 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: between loud and quiet, and it takes on this kind 989 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: of rough, ragged, kind of auditory quality. And I think 990 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 1: this might be the reason I'm okay with normal movie screaming. 991 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,319 Speaker 1: But sometimes a scream in a movie sounds real, and 992 00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: it sounds wrong, and it sounds upsetting. I think that 993 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,840 Speaker 1: quality of raggedness that I was trying to put words 994 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,280 Speaker 1: to might at least be partially rooted in this quality 995 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 1: they're talking about in the paper of acoustic roughness. This 996 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: is really this is really interesting. It makes me think 997 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,120 Speaker 1: too about music that incorporates like a lot of like 998 00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: primal yelling and screaming um. And obviously they know intense 999 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: metal such as death metal, and I think a lot 1000 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: of that is going to fall into the category of 1001 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,360 Speaker 1: kind of movie scream territory. Whereas there are particular artists, 1002 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,400 Speaker 1: the one that comes to mind is the vocalist Jen's 1003 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,719 Speaker 1: Kidman of Sugar, who, at least in some of the 1004 00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 1: tracks we have, not really just collectively in all the tracks, 1005 00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: is able to really bring out this this guttural raw, 1006 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,759 Speaker 1: like vicious ragged nous to the things that he is 1007 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 1: screaming in in the songs, and it's a and and 1008 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,200 Speaker 1: it's it's tremendous. I mean, it's one of the reasons 1009 00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: where like I don't listen to a lot of death metal, 1010 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: but I'll I'll listen to my Sugar and then I'll 1011 00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: I'll think about how much I appreciate it, and then 1012 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,799 Speaker 1: I'll try out other artists and I'll often just listen 1013 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,120 Speaker 1: to it and be and think, well, that's not really 1014 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: scratching the same itch, and I wonder if that's part 1015 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,399 Speaker 1: of it, Like I'm not it's not activating the same 1016 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: circuits in my brain because it's a different level of vocalization. 1017 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 1: So you want your metal to be like more directly 1018 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: activating of the fear circuits in your brain. Or yeah, yeah, 1019 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 1: if I'm listening to you know, if I'm listening to 1020 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,120 Speaker 1: something called chaos fear you know, or something you know, 1021 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,960 Speaker 1: or or New Millennium Cyanide Christ, it needs to have 1022 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: it needs to connect with that fear network otherwise it's 1023 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: it's disingenuous, right, Yeah, that's interesting. Well, another interesting thing 1024 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,480 Speaker 1: that they found in the study was that it wasn't 1025 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:42,040 Speaker 1: just human screams, Like the same auditory qualities came through 1026 00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,680 Speaker 1: in like alarm sounds, like people found synthetic alarm sounds 1027 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: more disturbing if they had this quality of acoustic roughness 1028 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,759 Speaker 1: that sounds kind of like raggedness to us, you know, 1029 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,319 Speaker 1: the rapidly modulating volume. Right. So I'm not positive, but 1030 00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm like nine percent sure that's what's going on 1031 00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,120 Speaker 1: in my reaction to the screaming session at the beginning 1032 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,919 Speaker 1: of of The Tingler. It's got acoustic roughness that most 1033 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 1: movie screams don't have. But of course, in the movie 1034 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,799 Speaker 1: The Tingler, individuals don't just scream. Uh. There's also this 1035 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,160 Speaker 1: idea of of of dying due to the inability to scream, 1036 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,880 Speaker 1: the idea of just being scared to death, and that's 1037 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: another that's that's another like fun topic to unravel. Well, yeah, 1038 00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,600 Speaker 1: so in the movie, the explanation is can you be 1039 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,800 Speaker 1: scared to death? Because when you get scared and you 1040 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,720 Speaker 1: can't scream, the Tingler crushes your back, breaks breaks your spine, 1041 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,960 Speaker 1: and that's like what gets uh Vincent Price's character really excited. 1042 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,720 Speaker 1: There's that part where he says, like, I've thought about 1043 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,840 Speaker 1: not for two years, but the breaking of spines due 1044 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,200 Speaker 1: to fear. But obviously that's not what is happening in 1045 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,800 Speaker 1: actual human beings. No. Though. The question I guess is 1046 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,880 Speaker 1: can you actually be scared to death? And the answer 1047 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 1: is absolutely yes, that you absolutely can and this does happen. 1048 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,200 Speaker 1: I found a good article about this from Scientific American 1049 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: that was consulting with an expert named Martin A. Samuel's 1050 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,720 Speaker 1: who was chairman of the neurology department at Brigham and 1051 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:16,320 Speaker 1: Women's Hospital in Boston, and so uh so so Samuel's 1052 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,040 Speaker 1: talks about these cases and basically there are tons of 1053 00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,240 Speaker 1: documented instances where a sudden terror causes somebody to die. 1054 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,280 Speaker 1: But the big question is we know that when people 1055 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: die of fright, it's not because something like living in 1056 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,680 Speaker 1: them crack their vertebrae. Something else must be going on, 1057 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,640 Speaker 1: So what is it? Well, according to Samuel's, the primary 1058 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,920 Speaker 1: mechanism of death when people are scared to death seems 1059 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,080 Speaker 1: to be damaged to the vital organs, particularly the heart, 1060 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: by a toxic surge of stress hormones, primarily adrenaline. So 1061 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,840 Speaker 1: when we experienced terrifying stimuli, our bodies kick off a 1062 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 1: familiar process that you've almost certainly both heard of and 1063 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: felt for yourself, which is the fight or flight response. 1064 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 1: And this is a response within the autonomic nervous stem 1065 00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,000 Speaker 1: that reacts to a threat by preparing the body for 1066 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,440 Speaker 1: life saving actions. So the heart rate increases, it's pumping 1067 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,880 Speaker 1: more blood, more blood flows to the muscles, perspiration increases, 1068 00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,880 Speaker 1: the pupils dilate, meaning they you know, they get bigger 1069 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 1: to let in more light. Uh, the normal background workings 1070 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,040 Speaker 1: of the digestive system sort of go on. Hold. Uh, 1071 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: there's like loosening of the of the lower bowels and 1072 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,160 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. And this automatic response is 1073 00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,040 Speaker 1: of course very useful if you have to take immediate 1074 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,720 Speaker 1: physical action in response to a threat, as the fight 1075 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: or flight name implies, So this response primes you to 1076 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,360 Speaker 1: either you know, to freeze up, take in sensory data, 1077 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,400 Speaker 1: and evaluate the situation as quickly as possible, then neither 1078 00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: runaway as fast as you can or get ready to 1079 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,760 Speaker 1: fight for your life. But of course, it's funny so 1080 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,680 Speaker 1: many of the situations in which our bodies choose to 1081 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:52,160 Speaker 1: deploy this type of response in normal life, because so 1082 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,160 Speaker 1: many of the things that trigger the fight or flight 1083 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,960 Speaker 1: response to us are not physical threats. They're not something 1084 00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,600 Speaker 1: we need to run from or fight. They're like you know, 1085 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,480 Speaker 1: you've got an email that upset you or something like that. 1086 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Paper tigers is the term we often use. Yeah, the 1087 01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,680 Speaker 1: same fear response that we would have to an actual 1088 01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,200 Speaker 1: physical threat we have, we still experience those, but it's 1089 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,040 Speaker 1: to these these things that are not that are that 1090 01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,160 Speaker 1: are not physical threats or at least not directly, you know, 1091 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,280 Speaker 1: like there's several degrees of separation between uh, this letter 1092 01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,040 Speaker 1: you got in the mail and like physical incarceration, yes, exactly. 1093 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: And so the nervous system, of course, it triggers this 1094 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,760 Speaker 1: fight or flight response by by by releasing, by flooding 1095 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 1: the body with stress hormones, uh, one of which, of 1096 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,440 Speaker 1: course the primary one is adrenaline here, and adrenaline is 1097 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 1: good at the good at this job. It causes this 1098 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,919 Speaker 1: rapid response throughout any different parts of the body, gets 1099 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,800 Speaker 1: us ready to engage in urgent survival behaviors. But according 1100 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,560 Speaker 1: to Samuel's in this article, adrenaline is very toxic in 1101 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 1: high concentrations. Like flooding of adrenaline can damage organs like 1102 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: the kidneys or the liver over the long term, but 1103 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,800 Speaker 1: the most immediate threat is the damage it can cause 1104 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: to the heart. And this happens when surging adrenaline forces 1105 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: the muscle cells in the heart to contract uncontrollably, and 1106 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,400 Speaker 1: this leads to fatal alterations in the rhythm of the heartbeats, 1107 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:17,520 Speaker 1: such as ventricular fibrillation, which is when patterns of contractions 1108 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: in the ventricles actually prevent the heart from pumping blood correctly. 1109 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,520 Speaker 1: And if the heart doesn't pump blood, suddenly our tissues 1110 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 1: stop getting oxygen and we die. And so according to 1111 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 1: Samuel's anybody can die of fright, but pre existing cardiac 1112 01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:35,360 Speaker 1: conditions like heart disease can make you more vulnerable. Uh. 1113 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: And so a weird way of thinking about this issue 1114 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,640 Speaker 1: is that our fight or flight response could also be 1115 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:45,200 Speaker 1: imagined metaphorically as a kind of Tingler like but whatever, 1116 01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's like this thing within us that's there 1117 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,640 Speaker 1: for ancestral reasons. It got in us many many generations 1118 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,919 Speaker 1: ago when it served a purpose. But now the fight 1119 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,200 Speaker 1: or flight response like most of the time, I mean, 1120 01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,720 Speaker 1: unless you live in like a very violence or cumstances, 1121 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,720 Speaker 1: the fight or flight response is generally parasitic on you. 1122 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,320 Speaker 1: Now it is it is an instinctual parasite that is 1123 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: serving its own purpose, which is mostly obsolete and meanwhile 1124 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,520 Speaker 1: killing your body in the process. Yeah, I think I 1125 01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,240 Speaker 1: think about this a lot dealing, you know, since I 1126 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 1: deal with in a certain amount of anxiety myself. But 1127 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,760 Speaker 1: like the anxiety, if I think of the anxiety, is 1128 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,160 Speaker 1: the tingler, Like the tingler kind of takes on different 1129 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,880 Speaker 1: forms and like whatever the thing is that's bothering me 1130 01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,840 Speaker 1: at a particular time, I kind of at times stop 1131 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,960 Speaker 1: and realize, what's the same force. You know, it's the 1132 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,840 Speaker 1: same creature, but it's wearing a slightly different skin. It's 1133 01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: just dressed in in some other in the skin of 1134 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,480 Speaker 1: some other paper tiger. To uh, that's going to disrupt 1135 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,800 Speaker 1: my day? Yeah, I mean I I wonder if it 1136 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,280 Speaker 1: is actually I haven't seen the study about this or anything, 1137 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,200 Speaker 1: but at the risk of getting a laugh here, I 1138 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: wonder if it could actually be helpful to or soonify 1139 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:06,560 Speaker 1: your anxiety to like to give yourself a visual metaphor 1140 01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,120 Speaker 1: to think about your anxiety through. It doesn't have to 1141 01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,520 Speaker 1: be a tinkler, but a tingler might be an especially 1142 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:15,680 Speaker 1: funny one if you're trying to disempower your own anxiety 1143 01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,720 Speaker 1: response to things that aren't actually gonna hurt you. Well, 1144 01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,200 Speaker 1: on one hand, I come back again to the psychedelic 1145 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:25,240 Speaker 1: themes of the Tingler, you know, the sparious psychedelic accounts 1146 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,240 Speaker 1: of psychedelic experience in which fears or even anxieties are personified. 1147 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,680 Speaker 1: Is something that can then be banished. But then also 1148 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,160 Speaker 1: like this is this is tantamount to uh many religious faiths, 1149 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, get the behind me Satan? Uh you know, 1150 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean that's so what is that but taking your 1151 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,800 Speaker 1: fears and anxieties or temptations or something, you know, so 1152 01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,920 Speaker 1: whatever your your your negative emotional baggage happens to be 1153 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: and putting it in the form of this, uh, this 1154 01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:55,360 Speaker 1: this this non human entity that then can there then 1155 01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,800 Speaker 1: be interacted with or fought? Can they can be farted at? 1156 01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,560 Speaker 1: If say, if you're Martin luth there exactly well, well yeah, 1157 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,120 Speaker 1: to to what does he say to the devil? I 1158 01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,160 Speaker 1: give the affart? Yeah. I think the Tingler might be 1159 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,280 Speaker 1: a good one. It might be a good one to imagine, 1160 01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,520 Speaker 1: because the Tingler actually is not very scary, Like I mean, 1161 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,080 Speaker 1: if you cut out the parts of the movies with 1162 01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,120 Speaker 1: the screaming that's actually kind of disturbing. The Tingler is 1163 01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:23,200 Speaker 1: very funny. Uh, And so I wonder if you you 1164 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,680 Speaker 1: listeners out there who have problems with anxiety, try this experiment. 1165 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,120 Speaker 1: I want to hear about the results when your anxiety 1166 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,560 Speaker 1: flares up when a paper tiger has got you sweating, 1167 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 1: when you you know you're you're experiencing that that full 1168 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,080 Speaker 1: body stress response, and the adrenaline is flowing and the 1169 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 1: cortisol is flowing, and you know your organs are restraining 1170 01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,480 Speaker 1: under the weight of this thing that's not actually physically 1171 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,600 Speaker 1: a threat to you. I think it's just the Tingler. 1172 01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 1: It's just a Tingler in there, and and see if 1173 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,240 Speaker 1: that makes you laugh and helps you get over it. 1174 01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,040 Speaker 1: Before we close out here, I do want to come 1175 01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,320 Speaker 1: back just just to to William Castle's gimmickry here. You know, 1176 01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 1: there's a there's a whole line of thinking on this 1177 01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,080 Speaker 1: that that I don't think I would have even considered 1178 01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,640 Speaker 1: had we we not just done a multi episode look 1179 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,200 Speaker 1: at photography and motion pictures on our other podcast, Invention. 1180 01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,760 Speaker 1: It's especially easy to watch a film like The Tingler 1181 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,960 Speaker 1: and to laugh at its manipulation of audience reactions, right 1182 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:18,120 Speaker 1: and uh, and perhaps a bit challenging to view The 1183 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:22,760 Speaker 1: Tingler and feel anything approaching legitimate fear but of course 1184 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:24,480 Speaker 1: we have to you know, couch the film within the 1185 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:28,320 Speaker 1: context of its time, etcetera. But another thing that I 1186 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,920 Speaker 1: was thinking about was there were some studies that we 1187 01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,640 Speaker 1: touched on in those Invention episodes. Uh, particularly regarding a 1188 01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:39,560 Speaker 1: researcher by the name of Talma Hendler, founder and director 1189 01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,080 Speaker 1: of the Functional Brain Center at Tel Aviv Sarowski Medical Center. 1190 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,920 Speaker 1: They found that certain scenes from Black Swan this is 1191 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,160 Speaker 1: a film from two thousand ten Darren Aronofsky, Yeah, a 1192 01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:56,560 Speaker 1: lot of kind of Suspiria esque Ballerina Shenanigans and Hitler 1193 01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,640 Speaker 1: found that this film produced results that quote compared to 1194 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,680 Speaker 1: a schizophrenia like state, with the cognitive and emotional centers 1195 01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:08,360 Speaker 1: of the brain operating dramatically in and out of sync. Now, 1196 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,480 Speaker 1: this is of course a much more modern film we're 1197 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,400 Speaker 1: talking about here, and certainly one that showcases a much 1198 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,680 Speaker 1: more ambitious and technically proficient cinema. But I think it 1199 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:21,160 Speaker 1: underlines the idea here that films induce a kind of 1200 01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,720 Speaker 1: alternate cognitive experience, maybe even an alternate cognitive reality in 1201 01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,440 Speaker 1: and of themselves. Uh, you know, they're not that different 1202 01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 1: in some respects. Uh, you know, compared to a psychedelic experience. 1203 01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: And so it's it's interesting to to think about cinema 1204 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,640 Speaker 1: in that regard that we're taking this medium that that 1205 01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,400 Speaker 1: messages with your brain, that changes how you're perceiving reality, 1206 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:47,360 Speaker 1: and then on top of that, we're going to just 1207 01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,880 Speaker 1: fill it with fear and death and terror and see 1208 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:54,920 Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, that's funny. I mean, um, I agree 1209 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,440 Speaker 1: with you. I do think you could legitimately think of 1210 01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,640 Speaker 1: watching a film as a form of entering altered state 1211 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,800 Speaker 1: of consciousness. I don't think that's actually a stretch at all. 1212 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,120 Speaker 1: It does bring us back to this question, you know, 1213 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,840 Speaker 1: why why people do enjoy horror movies? I mean, you 1214 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,120 Speaker 1: and I both enjoy horror movies? Like why is that fun? 1215 01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,120 Speaker 1: Like you would think that you just, uh, you would 1216 01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,360 Speaker 1: think that you would never want to provoke negative arousal 1217 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,760 Speaker 1: states like fearfulness without needing to, because I mean, there's 1218 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,640 Speaker 1: enough stuff in life giving us anxiety. But I think 1219 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,160 Speaker 1: we talked about this when we went as guests on 1220 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,040 Speaker 1: Movie Crush with with Chuck Bryant over on that show. 1221 01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:34,720 Speaker 1: If you haven't checked that out, we're we're on some 1222 01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,320 Speaker 1: episode of it. It was like an October episode yeah, 1223 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,120 Speaker 1: but we talked about our love of horror movies, and 1224 01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, I totally have the opposite experience. For me, 1225 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:48,919 Speaker 1: for some reason, watching scary movies seems to to decrease 1226 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:52,960 Speaker 1: my level of anxiety about normal day to day stuff. 1227 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly why that is, but I 1228 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,400 Speaker 1: think it's that, you know, it's sort of like, um, 1229 01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,200 Speaker 1: it gives you a kind of low stakes practice environment 1230 01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: to sort of observe your fear in a controlled setting 1231 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,800 Speaker 1: where you know that nothing is actually going to threaten you. 1232 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,200 Speaker 1: But you can also think, perhaps maybe this is a stretch, 1233 01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,080 Speaker 1: but you can think of this anxiety inside of us 1234 01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,439 Speaker 1: as this you know, this autoimmune function that is there 1235 01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,080 Speaker 1: to deal with actual threats. And when when those threats 1236 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,360 Speaker 1: are not there, I mean, what what does it do? 1237 01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,040 Speaker 1: What does it have to feed on? In the same 1238 01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,560 Speaker 1: way that, uh that if you are isolated from stimulive 1239 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,760 Speaker 1: you are saying solitary confinement, the senses may pick up 1240 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,000 Speaker 1: on sensory data that is not quite there and extrapolated. 1241 01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,320 Speaker 1: So perhaps on on some level, it's like we don't 1242 01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,439 Speaker 1: have enough real concrete threats to fear in our day 1243 01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,559 Speaker 1: to day life. Actual tigers, you know, actual boulders falling 1244 01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,160 Speaker 1: up from the cliffs onto us. But we're we're still 1245 01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,920 Speaker 1: hardwired to deal with those kind of threats, and so 1246 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,360 Speaker 1: without those kind of threats, we end up fearing all 1247 01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,519 Speaker 1: these other things. And then a horror movie, a good 1248 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,760 Speaker 1: one anyway, gives us something else to feed to the 1249 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,519 Speaker 1: tingler in our mind. Yeah, somehow a monster is is 1250 01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,479 Speaker 1: a nice compromise there. It's like something that you can 1251 01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,080 Speaker 1: focus this fear response on, but you know, it's not 1252 01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,920 Speaker 1: actually real. Now. One thing I will say is that 1253 01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm really a fan of when 1254 01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,400 Speaker 1: I watch a horror movie that's so good and so 1255 01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,919 Speaker 1: effective that I walk out kind of looking over my shoulder. 1256 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,559 Speaker 1: It doesn't happen much anymore. Used to happen more often, 1257 01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,479 Speaker 1: I guess when I've just seen fewer horror movies and 1258 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,840 Speaker 1: I was less exposed to it. But well, I mean, 1259 01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:38,280 Speaker 1: I remember seeing the original American remake of The Ring. 1260 01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,439 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I was basically up all night after that. 1261 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:43,240 Speaker 1: At the time, that was not a lot of fun, 1262 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,080 Speaker 1: But I look back on it fondly because I had 1263 01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:50,080 Speaker 1: such an authentic, you know, emotional, fear based reaction to 1264 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,120 Speaker 1: that film and it's it's just something I rarely experience 1265 01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,200 Speaker 1: with a movie. The same can be said for a 1266 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,040 Speaker 1: lot of psychedelic experiences, though, you know, you hear people say, well, 1267 01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't fun at the time, but I 1268 01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,879 Speaker 1: learned something from it. I had the exact same reaction 1269 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,960 Speaker 1: with with the American remake of The Ring when I 1270 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,280 Speaker 1: was young. I don't know how old I was. I 1271 01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,719 Speaker 1: must have been I don't know, eighth or ninth grade 1272 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,320 Speaker 1: when I mean I I was technically like an adult 1273 01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,360 Speaker 1: at the time, and I still stayed up all night, 1274 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, unable to shake it. Yeah, it's certainly made, 1275 01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,400 Speaker 1: like TVs pretty freaky. Anytime after that you turn on 1276 01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:24,559 Speaker 1: a TV and static pops up, it's like, oh, well, 1277 01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:26,640 Speaker 1: you know, maybe after a return to The Ring in 1278 01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:29,520 Speaker 1: the future. I know we've talked before about potentially exploring 1279 01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,760 Speaker 1: something related to like superstitious ideas about technology. Oh yeah, 1280 01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:36,759 Speaker 1: I'd love to do that, you know, I will report. 1281 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:38,920 Speaker 1: I still think it actually is a pretty well made 1282 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,240 Speaker 1: horror movie. Like a lot of the imagery is pretty 1283 01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,000 Speaker 1: inventive and creepy, and it kind of holds up. But 1284 01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,320 Speaker 1: at the same time, I rewatched it more recently and 1285 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,320 Speaker 1: it didn't have the same effect anymore. And now parts 1286 01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:52,960 Speaker 1: of it made me laugh. But not to say it's 1287 01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,000 Speaker 1: not that it's like bad. It's just like I you 1288 01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:00,160 Speaker 1: know somehow, especially in the context of my memory, is 1289 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff, the scare moments in it 1290 01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,400 Speaker 1: have become funny. Yeah, And of course it was an 1291 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,400 Speaker 1: influential film, so it's kind of had a chance to 1292 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,880 Speaker 1: delude itself through popular culture, I imagine. But it's still 1293 01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,639 Speaker 1: got Brian Cox in it so that you can't fall 1294 01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,800 Speaker 1: can't go wrong with Brian Cox. Put Brian Cox in 1295 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,320 Speaker 1: every single movie, it'll be better, all right. Well, on 1296 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,320 Speaker 1: that note, we're gonna go and close this one out. 1297 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,040 Speaker 1: You know, obviously we'd love to hear from anyone out there. 1298 01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,559 Speaker 1: Have you seen The Tinler? Uh? Do you have you know, 1299 01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,960 Speaker 1: some some fond memories of this film, perhaps you even 1300 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:33,839 Speaker 1: saw it in the theater. If you saw The Tingler 1301 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,800 Speaker 1: in the in an actual theater like original production or 1302 01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,640 Speaker 1: even you know, more recently, but definitely if you were 1303 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,320 Speaker 1: in a vibrating chair, we we totally want to hear 1304 01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:47,479 Speaker 1: about that. Likewise, if you have suggestions for future episodes 1305 01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,320 Speaker 1: of stuff to blow your mind in particular, if you 1306 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,160 Speaker 1: have suggestions for future movie episodes that we do, we 1307 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. In the meantime, heading 1308 01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:55,559 Speaker 1: over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, that's 1309 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,320 Speaker 1: we will find all the shows and if you want 1310 01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,920 Speaker 1: to help us out, the best thing you can do 1311 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,280 Speaker 1: is to rate and review Stuff to Blow your Mind 1312 01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,639 Speaker 1: wherever you have the power to do so. Huge thanks 1313 01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,519 Speaker 1: to our excellent audio producers Seth Nicholas Johnson and Maya Coole. 1314 01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:10,479 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 1315 01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:12,919 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest 1316 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,519 Speaker 1: topic for the future, for just to say hello, you 1317 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,479 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 1318 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:29,800 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a 1319 01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,559 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 1320 01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,560 Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1321 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:46,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.